#this is what the FE16 Supreme Leader would say

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Do you think that it's out-of-character/a retcon for Edelgard to know from the start that Alear's a dragon but not take any issue with that because she sees them as a benelovent and kind person?

It seems like a pretty blatant attempt on IS' part to whitewash Edelgard's speciesism away by rewriting it so that she doesn't have any issues with dragons and only hated Rhea because she thought she was a bad leader imo; it's at least consistent with her Hopes characterization, where that aspect of her personality also got scrubbed away, but i still really dislike just how hard IS has been working to remove her biggest character flaws in every game she's been in post-3H.

You are a child of the goddess. You must not be allowed power over the people!

Benevolent or not (I mean, she says this to Flayn, a cleric!), children of the goddess should not rule over the people because they are children of the goddess ; aka, regardless of their actions, pointy ears cannot have power over round ears, period.

And bear in mind, this quote isn't from CF, but from either SS or VW, aka routes not centered on her (and supposed to be more neutral than AM where she is the final boss).

Supreme Leader doesn't like pointy ears, period. In CF, she develops a bit more (especially in the non Pat'd version), but she thinks they have no human understanding/feelings, and refuses to even consider the idea of "coexistence", the "masquerading as humans" part comes to mind, and ultimately her question being roughly should humans be led by inhumans or not? And if you exclude inhumans because they are, non humans, rather than excluding them based on their actions, well, the issue is not their actions (or lack of), but their nature.

So yes, our Supreme Leader would have had qualms about Alear and the existence of a Divine Dragon, while she knows how to not spout her racist/specist theory at the wrong time, it generally makes no sense for her to be chummy with Alear.

(bear in mind Supreme Leader is the only Lord who has no support with a Nabatean!)

FWIW, Heroes doubled down on her specism while mumbling something about "Gods" (but then, F!Edel talks to Mila the lizard lady, and not to Ashera or Yune!) but yes, if Supreme Leader has to be an emblem and exist alongside Corn, Miccy, Ike, Leif, Celica, - well, any of the FE Lords, she had to be heavily retconned because her views can't match at all with theirs.

The Fodlan Emblem though was pretty much decried everywhere for this, and also the fake "uwu we're all fwends" when Supreme Leader tried to ice the two others in FE16, and shits on their countries or their characters at any given occasion.

Nopes scrubbed off the specism, but only because Nopes doesn't fully explore her reasoning like Tru Piss does, there's no occasion to rant about evil pointy ears and explain why they suck to a party who... follows her because they want to be paid (Barney).

However, given how in Golden Shower, she outed Nabateans as "not being what they seem" to convince Clout - I'd say it still exists and is still one of her reasons to want to get rid of the CoS and Rhea : her ears are pointy.

#anon #replies #feh dropped the ball hard with the altina harmonic #it just goes uwu empresses #when altina? is the first beorc who fucked a laguz? and got a branded? #she obviously doesn't care about someone's shape of ears #she loved Lehran #how would she react and talk to Supreme Leader who thinks Nabateans are vile beasts and a plague to humanity? #Alear is wrong because Alear is a lizard thus BaD #this is what the FE16 Supreme Leader would say #hell even some of her most devoted fans were pissed at this because she's obviously right being racist #but we know their moral compass is somewhere over a rainbow lol #FE16

[gascon-en-exil]

FE16 Black Eagles (Church) Liveblogging

Chapters 20-21. The end, for the fourth and final time.

Shambhala is the same as it is in Verdant Wind - moving on.

Chapter 21, conversely, feels at first like a playable postgame. There’s no immediate plot hook, and during exploration everyone is talking about either how the war is over or how Byleth is going to become leader of Fódlan and will be the best ever because self-insert. Seteth even gives you the option to skip to the end of the month, which I took because I’m feeling pretty done with this game for the moment. I just missed a few final grinding opportunities.

Incidentally, I noticed I had Sothis as an option for S rank in some of my other playthroughs but not this one. I thought she didn’t have any requirements, but it seems like she does?

Silver Snow’s endgame though...whew. There’s a lot of heavy-hitting monsters that deal magical damage, and the Immaculate One seemed a good bit tankier than her Crimson Flower incarnation. She’s also got a very long range AoE attack she can use every turn, so overall she’s a bit more dangerous than Hegemon Edelgard. I’m only going off of Normal of course, and my playthrough of Azure Moon was rougher than the others being my first, but if I had to rank the final chapters in terms of difficulty it would probably be Azure Moon = Silver Snow > Crimson Flower > Verdant Wind.

Looking through the extras afterward to see if I missed anything apart from supports, apparently there are two music tracks that require you to be using the Japanese audio? The one of Rhea singing after the ball, and the credits, at least according to GameFAQs

Story/Character observations

Once again, it’s the former Eagles who carry most of the unique emotional heft for this route. I still don’t care about Caspar’s father dying offscreen (either in battle or by offering himself up for trial and execution, it’s not really clear) even though Dorothea also cries over him. Bernadetta reveals that the reason she’s much more confident in Crimson Flower is because Edelgard had had her father placed under house arrest, but after her death on this route he’s been released and she asks Byleth to either have him arrested again or exiled. I am...not touching that, with all the wank over Bernadetta. On a lighter note, Ferdinand wonders if his huge hole can ever be filled - the hole in his heart, that is. In light of his acknowledgement of Hubert last chapter, I’m going to guess that he might not be only talking about the end of the Empire here.

The ginger warlock concerned for Dedue returns. Someone write a crack fic about them, or at least draw some porn.

A cleric NPC says that Byleth will be canonized after all they’ve done. In case this route making your self-insert a pope and supreme leader of an entire continent weren’t enough, you also get sainthood!

The content of Rhea’s big reveal is rather different here than in Verdant Wind, less about how Nemesis and the Agarthans violated her kin and more about the many different ways in which she and Byleth are related...one battle before you can marry her. Nice of her to lay out the incest so neatly.

But speaking of Nemesis...the game makes no attempt to explain why he’s resurrected upon the destruction of Shambhala in Verdant Wind, but not in Silver Snow. On a Doylist level I absolutely understand the difference in these routes’ final bosses, but thematic resonance aside it’s still weird. It doesn’t help that there’s zero build-up to Rhea’s transformation into the Immaculate One either, as if she develops sudden onset dragon madness because she realizes you still need a final boss.

It’s a little obscured (some references were lost in translation, from what I’ve read), but I finally got my answer for my question about Tomas’s lines about the church’s cardinals way back in one of the game’s first chapters. The White Beasts that support the Immaculate One in the final battle are identified as cardinals in their class description, and as Seteth explains the highest ranking members of the church drank Rhea’s blood and received pieces of Crest stones so that they would transform when she did. Good on them for working in such a blatant allusion to the Eucharist, but it could have done with more setup than around two lines in the last chapter. Also, Tomas knowing something about the cardinals would seem to imply something. Were the Agarthans aware of these blood rituals? Is this where they got the idea to use Crest stones to turn people into Demonic Beasts - or did Rhea get the idea from them?

In the end I’m not sure why the fandom sometimes refers to this as Rhea’s route when the main figure is clearly Byleth. I’m also not sure why they used two cutscenes to develop the antagonism between Byleth and Edelgard only to ignore them otherwise. Edelgard just doesn’t matter to anyone’s emotional arc in Silver Snow, and while that’s true of all the house leaders and their followers (minus Dedue, still carrying out his and Dimitri’s tragic Verdant Wind storyline half offscreen) it was surprising coming from Verdant Wind where I expected more out of her. It’s as though the game expects the player to assume that Edelgard is emotionally invested in Byleth in all routes regardless of anything they do. In summary, Silver Snow is essential for understanding who and what exactly Byleth is and how they relate to Rhea, but it’s largely superfluous otherwise. 

That wraps up my first full run of all the main story content of Three Houses. I’m not quite done liveblogging however - I’ve got some notes for the things I’ll have to pick up on future playthroughs.

#Fire Emblem #FE16 #Fire Emblem Three Houses #Spoilers

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Something stupid for the 1st april :

After reading some classical piece of litterature, Seteth catches Flayn asking Rhea what "breasting boobily" means.

He is sure this is a prank they came up to make him lose his temper, but he will not fall this time, he caught the prank.

Rhea doesn't know herself what "breasting boobily" means, but she remembers having read this sentence once, maybe it's a new way of walking down the stairs humans invented? She would have a better chance asking Professor Manuela.

Not wanting to appear out of the loop and actually wishing to keep up with modern slang - because even she doesn't know what this thing means - Manu nervously laughs, and tells Flayn this is a slang someone more familiar with Enbarr than she is, since she has been working here for the last few years, might help her with.

She can ask Doro!

Not deterred in the least (finally a chance to catch up with how modern young people talk!), Flayn rushes to Doro, who was attending Supreme Leader's opening speech for the Adrestian Empire's Founding Day.

Just when she was finishing the part of Adrestia's glorious history and Emperor Wilhelm's War of Heroes that ended on the unification of the Continent - Flayn bursted out and asked very excitedly "Dorothea, since you are more attuned to Modern Adrestian language and Enbarr's customs, what "breasting boobily" means?".

Dorothea wanted to explain how this most likely refered to a way of walking that emphasies the chest area used to seduce people, but Supreme Leader glared at them so hard that she wondered if they did anything wrong, it's not like Eddie was actually expecting them to listen to her speech, right?

Cue Caspar trying to "walk boobily or something" but finding the ordeal very tedious, how are people supposed to walk like that? How can they even hold an axe like that?

"It's not fit for battle, it's used for seduction!"

"Why would you seduce people on a battlefield?"

Linhardt was the only one with enough common sense to tell them to stop ignoring their class leader, because she seems really infuriated that they interrupted her speech on Adrestia was Great or something, for the Foundation Day.

"Oh, if you want, Rhea is both- I mean, the Archbishop is hosting a festival in the mess hall for the Foundation Day, telling everyone who wants to listen how Emperor Wilhelm is the only Great Emperor in Adrestia's History, and she is handing out sweets and drinks to people who want to participate or just hang out while some children from the Monastery are playing around."

Lured by baked cookies and refreshments, the Black Eagles ditch their classroom, to Hubert's disarray.

Munching on a bunch of sweets - Hubert assured her were not made by the Archbishop herself - Supreme Leader rants about how those beasts obviously planned to humiliate her in front of her friends, and manipulate once again unaware fools with sugar, as they teach them a fake history to control the world, and they will just have to wait 10 months, she will become Emperor and put her stupid ancestor's legacy to shame by becoming The Greatest Emperor of Adrestia.

"Of course, my lady."

"What does Breasting Boobily even mean Hubert? Search for an answer, and fast! I refuse to let those things know more about humanity than I do!"

#fodlan nonsense #we all know Hubert ultimately asked Cleo what the fuck that meant #he couldn't definitely give Supreme Leader the answer Cleo gave him #'horny people who never saw women were writing about women with their peepees' #they're talking about Adrestian litterature here ! It can't just be full of people thinking with their dicks right? #Poor Hubert #Adrestian Foundation Day falls on April Fool's day #i know it's a coincidence but lol #To Flayn of course Rhea would talk about Willy and remember how Great he was #but if she had to talk to other people? As the Archbishop she has to be there for the festivites for Adrestia's birth #but since she doesn't know how to people she thinks the best way to talk about this day to people who just tell her hello is #to bomb them with facts about Willy and how Great he was #She can't say Adrestia is great else the Faerghans or Leicesterans who participate will be miffed #so she falls on Willy and Seiros's whacky adventures and days together #at this point everyone in the Monastery who talked to her that day believe she's a fan of Great Emperor Wilhelm #to Seteth's disarray #Why can't she talk to people about Saint Cichol when it's his birthday?? #FE16 #Fodlan AU

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Are we ever going to get an in-universe explanation as to why Rhea sets a city with civilians still in it on fire at the end of CF, or is it forever going to remain the "devs wrote Rhea doing something evil so the audience wouldn't feel bad about killing the final boss who'd done nothing wrong up to that point, regardless of how grossly out-of-character it is for her to do that" excuse?

:(

I was typing an answer, switched tabs, and what I already typed disappeared...

Anyways...

Watsonian wise, the game iirc tells us Rhea intends to use the "fiery tiles" as hazards to slow down the BESF's progression to rekt them - and I personally find nice how the devs picked peg knights to act as reinforcments - cementing the "strategy" aspect of the Berning, aka Rhea's own troops are immunte to tile hazards, but the BESF isn't.

Doylist wise, I feel like it was one of the moves the devs pulled out to illustrate how far Rhea fell from... well, what she once was.

It's the culmination of her breakdown, her point of no-return : we came from a Rhea who valued Fodlan and its people more than her own survival and who would refuse to sacrifice anyone to ensure her safety to... a Rhea who lost so much (her remaining family), is PTSD'ing hard and was betrayed by Billy and Humanity "again", she snaps and now will sacrifice Fodlan and its people to get a chance of surviving what she perceives as the second act of the genocide of her species.

Forget the "not feeling bad" aspect of this fight anon, because, at least with the Jp audio, every scene involving Rhea, before this fight when she lost Seteth'n'Flayn, is in Tailtean, or even in this fight laments in her battle quotes, conveys, kuddos to Inoue, anguish, desperation and anger.

The BESF pushes her - during the entire length of this short route - to her breaking point, she breaks (but it's not only a furious/angry breakdown!) and Firdhiad Berning is the consequence.

Imo, even if the gapmoe and the Supreme Court tries to act as if the BESF is "in the right" or wonder what's for dinner, the foes are much more humanised/developed/are mourning on screen that, save for some devoted people, I firmly believe Tru Piss wasn't supposed to be seen as a "Good Route", but more like the Tales games sometimes have a "Bad End" path.

The final close-up on Billy's dead eyes after they lost Nirvana is, imo, telling enough - even if gapmoe and the game mechanics + IS' obsession to sell you Supreme Leader as a S material waifu you can romance sort of killed this intent, since you can get your "and they lived happily ever after" ending and marry Supreme Leader.

Tl;Dr : Tru Piss is written in a way that would make anyone (even on a first PT!) feel bad about the people you're trouncing, from Judith crying about Ignatz'n'Leonie's loss of their future, to Hilda sacrifying herself to save someone against her former nature, aka when it comes to do the "right thing" Hilda will do it even if it costs her life, to Faerghus' desperation to defend themselves at the point of willingly make the ultimate sacrifice and turning into demonic beasts and Dimitri's tender scene with Dedue, or Felix and Rodrigue fighting side by side to defend their land (and dying together) - to ultimately, Rhea losing her mind, breaking down as she learns of her kin's fate and relieving her previous PTSD hard, ultimately telling the player that they betrayed the gremlin living in their head (even if game mechanics means that gremlin is the worst mother in the entire series) and ultimately, herself.

If you're not a first PT, but Tru Piss is your last PT and you know about Rhea'n'Billy's backstories... Well.

I don't like the "you made hit you" rhetoric because it fucking sucks and irl is used by scum, and while I don't think the Firdhiad Berning was made to make Rhea look "evil" so you wouldn't feel bad for rekting her... the game painfully reminds the player, each time, that they are the instigators of this war, they are the agressors attacking people who, in this last map, will do anything to defend themselves.

It's ugly but it's the War the BESF, aka the player in Tru Piss, started/supported.

#anon #replies #rhea stuff #this scene in Tru Piss always made me pause a bit #in 2019 i really thought it was to make Rhea look bad so we can have the heroic music killing her #but now after looking at the game and Tru Piss with more consideration #nope it's the final character warping or negative development #Rhea stops being her caring self and will now sacrifice her allies to survive #but it's only in this map #in Tailtean imo she still counted on her allies and relied on them #even if a certain someone doesn't understand what is a pincer attack #idk if Hubert or Supreme Leader supremely gaslight Billy about Rhea BaD she sacrificed the Kingdom #that's debunked by Rhea's own line when she arrived saying she was delayed by the rain or something #if the pincer attack worked the BESF would have been toasted #tfw plot armor means you have to win lol #that's the same thing with Xillia 2 when in the bad end Ludger kills everyone #Milla Muzét Gaius i mean those three all alone it's just nonsensical but when they're helped by their companions? #it works because the plot wants it to work #FE16

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Thinking about Supreme Bullshit and how convoluted was Supreme Leader's reason for declaring War on the CoS, by appointing Grégoire as a sham and puppet Bishop no one gives a fig about -

I was thinking at first more in lines of Supreme Leader herself, claiming - as House Hresvelg does - lineage from Saint Seiros herself (she knows it's a lie!!!!! but that beast made up that lie and stupid people believe it!) - so Supreme Leader claims higher "authority" on the Church than "Rhea", the Archbishop, and wants her seat to unify Adrestia and the Central Church under one banner.

If the Archbishop refuses, then Supreme Leader, claiming descent from the Goddess (iirc in one prayer it is mentionned Seiros is one of the Goddess's children!) herself is denied authority over Her Church, and has a (completely made up) legitimate claim and reason to get rid of the CoS, without needing to pretend Varley is a the new Southern Bishop.

But then I thought about something else...

Still using the lie that House Hresvelg descends from Seiros herself...

What if Supreme Leader, now besties with the CoS who helped her get rid of evil people who manipulated Adrestia (at least that's the official version) makes an official statement about wanting to claim Saint Seiros's remains, to put them in, idk, the Imperial mausoleum with all former Emperors and important people to Adrestia - under the guise of Seiros being one of the founders of Adrestia (as she supported Willy?) and the (supposed!!!) matriarch of the Imperial line?

Of course, the CoS can't "return" Seiros's remains to Adrestia, and thus a new casus belli is born.

Granted, in those two situations, it puts Supreme Leader in a difficult position - because if the CoS/Rhea/Seiros are outed as inhuman creatures who should not rule over the people, if Supreme Leader pushes her claim that she descends from those creatures, then maybe someone will tell her she's part beast, thus should not rule over the people too?

(she still could have Hubert silence any opposition, but at this point, why needing to make plans and create a real cause of war, if Hubert can do his thing on his own?).

#fodlan nonsense #adrestia stuff #i still find it hilarious how #Supreme Leader's family is supposed to descend from Jesus and no one ever says a thing about this in her war against the Church #TFW Rhea's Willy favoritism has much more consequences in the long term #like she managed to kept neutral information about the Elites and their crests and the 4 saint's crests #but Willy was a special case and what was done at first without any ill intent to celebrate her friendship #becomes the key to her downfall #it'd be even more depressing though... #FE16 #3 Nopes #sort of #but those situation would only work if Supreme Leader can accept lying about her being a non-human #given her mindset in FE16 about Nabateans I'd say that's the main issue against those plans

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Rhea was an amazing villain in CF. She finally wasn't a hapless uwu victim waiting to be rescued, she took charge, kicked ass, showed her determination to take back control by burning a city down while she was in it, and went down fighting without any "mommy are you there?" nonsense like in SS. Also Cheremy turned in an epic performance showing all the rage and tragedy as her millenia of work collapsed in on itself. 10/10 female villain with agency, would experience again.

I'd say antagonist, rather than villain, but sure, the lack of uwu is surprising!

There's no "sad uwu" with sad music and violins and "choices" ending with a very meaningful "i wanted to walk with u" to a person she might only have talked to 3 times in the past 6 years!

CF!Rhea shows her determination, in a twisted way, as she loses more and more control and relieves her PTSD, doing everything she can to survive and failing - failing to survive (well duh she's killed), failing to reunite with her mother, failing to live with humans, etc etc.

Seeing her lose more and more and her ultimate breakdown when Flayn'n'Seteth is really something - I have already made my point known about the different VA directions - and while Cherami Leigh's anger is really well conveyed - Inoue's performance conveys how you litteraly broke her! There's anger yes, but also despair and sadness.

She wants to reunite with her mother, even at the end - that's all she wants, and it's Inoue's peak performance between anger, anguish and despair that really sells Rhea as a character.

I think I felt as bad when this was over as that moment in ToX1 where you defeat Muzét on Jude's route, and she begs Maxwell to help her, only for him to, uh, don't do a thing. Then she goes bananas, and the ultimate line to Gaius where she replies with anger to his "well think by yourself" with her own "I don't know how" is just - that awesome. It's the perfect blend of off-putting, to make you understand that this character is more than just angry, but this character is feeling "feelings" (duh!) and they're shovered in your face, and sometimes, those feelings are uncomfortable and you can't ignore them.

In ToX1, imo, we're supposed to think that yes, while Muzét is an ass a bit too happy to be a perfect tool, the second she is abandonned she's a complete mess - and why the old fart abandonned her? Well...

Ditto for Rhea - her actions grow and grow more desperate, culminating with Bernie's Firdhiad adventure - but that anger and pain? They can't be ignored.

Alas, where ToX1 ends Muzét's breakdown with Milla accepting to make a place for her by her side (as unsatisfying as it is!), CF ends with...

Well, nothing.

But back to your post (I disgress too much lol) :

Yep, CF!Rhea isn't brainwashed, lobotomised, randomly "berserk" or anything, nope. Now, we can have other discussions about a genocide victim being hunted again and forced to relieve her PTSD until she breaks down.

But for a female character with agency, who decides how she will go down and is fully on board with her own plans, I think Azure Moon's Edelgard takes the cake.

She will meet Dimitri and her enemies in her palace, even resort to transform in her Hegemon Husk form if it means killing them to make her ideal world see fruition. No uwu, no crest stones used as poke balls, nope, nothing. It's only her, her ideals and her vision of the world.

#anon #replies #rhea stuff #FE16 #I think I also had vibes from Catelyn just before her breakdown #i remember that scene when the red wedding happens #and when shes says in the book after taking someone hostage #something Catelyn would never do usually #'on my honor as a tully on my honor as a stark' something like this #when she begs for Rob's life #and of course it doesn't work and then she breaks down #would a rhea who survives CF become like Lady Stoneheart? A shell of her former self obsessed with revenge? idk #I still think AM is the route that depicts Supreme Leader in the best light #no uwu no Supreme Puppet #It's just her like Ashnard in FE9 #I always wonder what kind of Rhea Leigh would have offered if she received Inoue's VA direction #but alas it was not meant to be

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So because of Leopold's support and the shadow assassinations by the Agarthans and Humbert , it would be irrealistic to have a civil war happen early on (as in it start during the first year of the war) despite how Edelgard's extended lmanifesto (not just the church part) screw over the nobility while at the same time screwing the church that, unlike the nobles, the civilians of Adrestia seem to somewhat give a shit about?

At least if the intent when writing a fanfic is to respect the lore/world building of Canon?

We don't see enough Adrestian civilians to even know what they think about, we heard about "missing" church people in Adrestia, but nothing about the commoners - we only hear in passing iirc Ashe talking about starvation because of the war, but idk if he's talking in general or about Adrestia.

Ferdie'n'Lysithea's paralogue tells us the randoms in Hrym and being bled dry under Ludwig's name (when he's actually framed by Thales!), and even if the game tries to avoid this topic like the plague, I still wonder where all those "war assets" are coming from, especially since the "people working" on those projects didn't hesitate a second to use Adrestians as guinea pigs (iirc Remire is in Adrestia!).

So Hubert's secret police + starvation + whatever is happening thanks to Agarthans riling people up like what happens in Hrym + Leopold being in charge of the army (that is made up of people from other places than just, Bergliez) + Hubert being Hubert, aka willingly take people hostage or threaten them to make their families comply + Supreme Leader (I mean Hubert) jailing/rekting "corrupt" nobles in the first days of her ascension to the throne...

Nopes apparently says Enbarr's people are pretty happy about the war, because they're revanchists and are hell removed from the frontlines - but what about the rest of Adrestia?

I once compared the coronation scene in CF to a coup (because Billy and Supreme Leader are accompanied by soldiers) but it would sort of match, Supreme Leader gets total control of the army through Bergliez's lust of power/conquest, control over the finances because Linhardt's dad is just like that I guess, Hubert oversees everything and, at least in FE16, Arundel still sides with her.

Aegir was neutralised, Vestra Sr was put in a trashcan, and Varley is either reduced to a puppet or to House arrest.

There are no powers left to oppose her in Adrestia, and if commoners somehow managed to rebel, they would have to deal with their very own national army, secret police and random Agarthans... on top of finding enough food to eat to survive while the ressources are given to the frontlines.

But in a way, everything I'm just saying bar the canon facts of :

having Leopold and the Army + Waldemar and the money

Hubert doing Hubert things

opposing big name nobles being swiftly deposed/neutralised just after her coronation (or before in Nopes!)

food shortages

FE16 wise : Agarthans taxing randoms to death/ Nopes : Agarthans killing people randomly

FWIW, AG where we learn a bit more about Adrestia, and how, apparently, Agarthans and bandits (?) are slaughtering randoms there, but the nobles are too concerned by the Kingdom's assault to protect their people, and would rather see them die than divert troops to, just, have the bandits/agarthans stop creating rivers of blood with the bloods of the people they're supposed to protect.

Everything else is headcanon/AUs/fanfic/however you want to call it.

So bar those points... Adrestia just exists and it's a damn shame, because even Begion managed to get its pseudo civil war between Sanaki and the Senate where commoners/people supported one over the other, but in Adrestia? Bar the BE peeps and a few dads, you have the feeling no one else exists.

FWIW, in the non CF routes, the opera company joins Billy's army iirc, so maybe they're not loyalists? And represent some people who aren't that gung-ho about the war?

i have that random headcanon that in Nopes, Manu and Mittelfrank are used for spying stuff, and actually, through Yuri and Manu herself, give intel about what happens in Enbarr to the CoS while the opera workers try to sabotage as much as they can some stuff in the Imperial Army... but that's just an AU lol

#maelor321 #replies #FE16 #3 nopes #Adrestia stuff #tfw the only nobles we see on Adrestia's side in SB are the ones who completely bought Supreme Leader's rehtoric #thus want to show their merit by uh #doing things that rank up merit during a war where you invade people i guess #I'd just have liked one map or a battalion of Adrestian rebels who join either the CoS or the Kingdom/Alliance because they do not approve #hell maybe if you recruited Ferdie instead of joining you there's a paralogue not in SS where you have to help him as he is #idk... maybe destroying a war asset camp/facility #and the Imperial Army found him out and has order to eliminate him and he must be saved by Billy + Lord ? #anything really #i have at least 3 AUs with Adrestian rebellions lol #from fake pretenders to the throne to zombies #and the Manu résistance network lol

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To continue the woobified view of the Elites and my comparison of them to the Black Eagles :

Same for me regarding the BE, especially because they also literally fought Edelgard's troops in WC when you choose their house, and even if you don't, they definitely still would know that Edelgard dus nasty shits in WC.

The idea that media literacy is dead is quite fitting, because the idea that even rotten persons have loved ones/that having loved ones doesn't mean you're not rotten is a known thing, yet the Eagles and elites get a pass solely because "they genuinely believe in the cause" and "they love and care for each other"

Probably Fraldarius was as devoted to Nemesis as Ingrid to Dimitri, Lamine very well may have been as sassy as Dorothea, perhaps Goneril was as brave and endearing as Caspar, or Maurice was as loyal to his clan's interests as Petra to Brigid's happiness (through a strong bond to the Empire) but like the BE, they are butchers, who relished in the destruction of everything those against them hold dear, lap dogs and rabid curs of someone they definitely know have crushed innocents and scorn the very idea of peace except under their domination.

The only meaningful difference between Edelgard-following BE and the elites is that we can know more about the BE and we are forced to dislike cutting them down even as they refuse to let northern Fódlan alone.

Honestly I need a fanfiction where the BE are called out for that bullshit.

Yep!

That's the tone deaf feeling I got from Nopes, the Deers are hunting someone bcs their leader wants her dead for no reason, but Raph only comments on how hungry he is.

Uh, sure Raph, you're not the most thoughtful character in there, but come on? Some commentary or exposition on what you're doing? Hello KT? Can we have characters be challenged or even react to the events of screen instead of wondering what's for dinner/teatime?

No??

I wouldn't say it's an issue of media litteracy being dead, but more something in the lines of people being more and more "all or nothing" nowadays, without any nuance and conflating liking a character with the idea/image that might project on you : if I like ASOIAF's Cersei, I don't think everything she does is "justified", but modern fandom, I feel like some people would categorize you as a "good" or "bad" person based on the characters you like, and it's just... not what fandom is or was supposed to be imo, I'm here to nerd and gush about favourite characters, not write litteral essays about the Geneva Convention.

Corollary is what, imo, made the Fodlan fandom hell : some people really take "criticism" against a character personally - sure the way FE16 was written invites projection, but at the end of the day, making a Berning Fire Joke is, just, making a joke about a bunch of pixels, nothing more.

Back to the BEs, they can have a sense of camaraderie and genuinely support each other... as they tear apart "people because Supreme Leader told me to" and fight side by side with Bob the Carpented who was turned into Waldi the demonic beast.

Ferdie can skewer Flayn on her father's lance because she is "a creature that has plagued humanity for ages" even if they reached a C support before shit hit the fan - and still protect Mercedes and Bernie from their abusing Fathers. Does that make him a great guy? A nuanced guy?

I think the trope is called "even evil people have loved ones" or something like that?

I don't think so, but he is no random one note villain sycophant either - now, what is the more annoying with the Fodlan games is how this dichotomy is never called upon : everything is just a giant blob or Hresvelg Grey ("morally grey" but only applied to Supreme Leader) where no one really is angry at her, and all the "sacrifices" she's making are off-screen while the characters on-screen always moan about her "ReFoRmS" and "IdEaLs" without talking about the cost bar some milquetoast "but war bad". And no one, in the game, will ever throw this hypocrisy to their face - Gallant Ferdinand will dream about the Opera as he wipes off the blood of a young woman who just wanted to return to the only home she had.

Yay.

FWIW, some mutuals and I have nothing but pure lols about Doro's line in the non-CF routes being "we killed Ferdie professor :'(" because, hey, why should I care more about Ferdie than about random loldier 55 ? Rhea? Felix? Claude? Ignatz?

Maybe the Elites were really friends and became """"nice""" persons with time, to their families and loved ones ?

Does this magically erase what they did before? Will that "good" they did erase all the "wrongs" they have previously done? Will theyr forever escape the consequences of their actions?

In a game that depicts Flamey as a terrorist for 11 chapters only to drop that plot point by the window to moan, again, about her "IdEaLs", "consequences" are maybe something you can eat as a snack, or throw in a trashcan.

So following the rules of this verse, given how Supreme Leader never receives flak for her Flamey stunts, why should the Elites receive any for what they did? Look, Maurice calls Daphnel his friend, surely he is not that bad of a man? Well yeah, he might have seduced women and planted a lot of wild oats here'n'there, but he cares about his friends!

Jeritza likes ice creams and cats! Surely it's more important to paint him as a cat lover than to deal with all the consequences of his stunt as the Death Knight, kidnapping and implied rekting young woman while he was in GM, under Flamey's orders, right?

Calling it now, after eviscerating Seteth's older brother, Goneril might have melted in front of one of Rhea's kittens, and adopted the cat asap. Surely that makes Goneril a "good" character right? And forget the entire "genocided a bunch of hippies living isolated in their village" stuff?

I don't have fanfics recs where the BEs are called hypocrites, but I confess I don't read a lot of fanfics in the FE16 fandom because of all of the aforementioned issues.

#maelor321 #replies #i don't even know if i replied to your ask lol #i disgressed and ranted #fandom woes #FE16 was designed as a game where you'd feel bad for fighting against 'your loved ones' aka precious students #the writing and execution is so artificial that they couldn't even make it believable for a second #so instead we are hit with giant signposts that read 'plz be sad now' #like Doro's we killed Ferdie sad uwus #or even Billy's choice in SS/VW of i don't want to kill Supreme Leader/I want to walk with her uwu #she is revealed to be Flamey she has been warring for 5 long years she caught Rhea #she had so many randoms peons killed #and yet the game has the nerve to give us this? #evening salt #SW!Anakin loves his fiancee so much uwu #sure he murders a bunch of babies and toddlers but don't you want to walk with him to create a galactic empire and kill #people who don't agree with him? including his beloved wife? #people conflate nuance and 'grey' with 'my fave did nothing wrong'

[randomnameless]

What do you think about the zombies at the end of verdant wind?

As (mostly) everything in this opus...

They're a wasted opportunity.

IIRC in the DLC, during the necromancy/human (?) transmutation plot, Rhea mentions the Chalice cannot return a soul, less a body?

(JP!Rhea specifically says the Chalice cannot return the soul of a human (人の子 ? Child of Man?) Is she implying the Chalice can return the soul of a Nabatean - but refused to do so because the price was too high?)

Of course Agarthan Tech is supposed to be rad and all... Nemesis was "sealed" after Tailtean (uhhh) somewhere by Rhea (re-uhhh) but then the Mole People put him in their freezer (Re²-uhhh) without Rhea going ballistic (Re^3-Uhhh) and now he has thawed?

I don't know which endgame has more plotholes, SS or VW.

Anyways, Rhea thought Nemesis could return because he has the Crest of Flames (zombie!Supreme Leader when), but what about the Dudes?

Claude tries to talk to them (funny how Dub!Riegan makes a sound, but JP!Riegan is silent and only breathes) but comes to the conclusion they're just puppets - so what, are they reanimated corpses but without a soul (unlike Nemeis who kept his because of the Crest of Flames)? So what animates them? A titanus microchip inserted in their brain?

Hmm...

Now that I think about it, in Nopes, Thales said Crest Stones are the essences of a Nabatean - so if they put a Crest Stone on an animated corpse (like the 10 Elites), would it make a Nabatean or a sort of zombified!Crest Beast?

Or what would have happened in Thales'n'co tried to animate Sitri's corpse? Would it have worked like it did for the Elites (tfw Aelfie's plan sucked he should have sided with the Agarthans) but since Sitri's heart (and essence?) in within Billy, she would just have been a corpse? Or it wouldn't have worked at all?

They missed the occasion to have people fight against figures of the past who were supposed to be dead, like imagine if in VW instead of putting Blaiddyd who doesn't say a thing, they zombified!Dimi and everyone you've killed at Gronder (a bit like FE5, if you kill people you meet them as zombies later on), with Zombie!Jerry being a staple (maybe zombie!Sitri too?) ?

Both FE13 and FE14 played this tune, so why FE16 - ripe with the possibility of making zombies from corpses - didn't play it in turn?

#anon #replies #it's october i can talk about zombies #FE16 #imagine if killing people had an incidence in this game #zombie!Dimi since you have to defeat him #but imagine if you kill every Faerghus peep instead of having their ancestors with fake relics you face zombie!Ingrid and Zombie!Anette #with their fake relics #wait wait wait imagine for a second : zombie!willy #'seiros will have to fight her friend! muhahaha i'm so evil!' #'how's that she's fridged and won't be taking part in the fight?' #'now i'm stuck with an useless great holy knight what i am supposed to do??'

[randomnameless]

The idea that SS says the Church needs to be rehabilitated in Rhea's ending is entirely on the translation. The Japanese text says that "Meanwhile, Rhea, who survived, returned to her duties as archbishop after she recovered her strength, and she aligned herself with the unified kingdom, working to rebuild the church and help people suffering from war damage." And while I've mentioned Claude's endings with Flayn before regarding Wind, the endings mention that the new order/society of Fodlan is built by the heroes who saved Fodlan which would include the CoS.

Pat really hated Rhea it seems if he does that to her ending. Her rebuilding the CoS? That's not good, she needs to make them atone. But then again, he also tried to make it so that Edelgard had similar ideals to Claude when the game ultimately says otherwise.

Oh I know, I've read your posts about this lol

TBH, while Pat is to blame for the Pat'd script, the Church, as in Rhea's church, is always depicted as needing/being reformed : it wasn't in SS's ending proper, but in Rhea's own S Support where she blames herself for, well, everything that happened but also confesses she used her position as the Archbishop for her personal plan to see her mother again...

And yet, if we look at her actions - and the ones that can be tied to her "rez Sothis plan", bar maybe making Sitri a priest/nun, what did she meant by the "took advantage of my position of the Archbishop"/"used my position as the Archbishop" to see her mother again?

In this S-support, Rhea herself considers her CoS/her lead of the CoS might be to blame for Supreme Leader's war and gives "empty" criticisms to her actions : emtpy as in, well, the game doesn't bother telling/showing what were those "occasions" where Rhea explicitely used her position as the Archbishop to make her wish come true.

Maybe if we pull our hair a bit, we can say the "Billy sitting on the chair" ceremony? That was made to "bring back" Sothis and she asked Billy to do that as their boss and the Archbishop of the CoS?

In a nutshell, it's less "the church needs to be reformed" in SS, but more "Rhea acknowledges she did BaD things (which are?) and used the CoS through her position as the Archbishop to do so (receipt not found?)" so with Billy and in the epilogue, obviously she doesn't do those "BaD" things anymore and their work is miraculous.

As for Claude, while he does "fall in love" with Flayn who is working in the Church with her Father - and this ending obviously cannot be triggered if Claude ends with Billy - Claude's very own words in his Billy S-support, imo, cannot be ignored, while Billy will take Rhea's role as the one people will rely on, he wants Billy to create a Fodlan with "new values" that won't exclude people for being different... implying Fodlan had such values before the War, CoS included - when we know, even in FE16, that this is bullshit!

So while Claude can end up with Flayn despite her being a member of the Church, she's a member of the post-VW Church that is "reformed/different" from the old church, because in VW, the Church has "new values that don't exclude people for being different".

So back to the original post

Compare with Houses, who always removes Nabateans/Rhea of the picture (except in SS’s S support) and brings “reforms” to the CoS - because it needed some, even if we will never know what they are or why those reforms were needed.

SS's reforms are less "reforms" and more "Rhea reckons she did BaD things so will stop doing them now".

The icing on the cake takes the form of Seteth'n'Flayn's paired ending, let it be in the lolcalised or even in the OG (Googled though!) script :

While Flayn disappeared soon after the war, Seteth stayed at the monastery and worked to restore the authority of the Church of Seiros. Doing away with his old strictness, he adopted a tolerant stance toward all, and encouraged his followers to do the same. When he was satisfied that the message was received, he vanished from the monastery.

In the lolcalised version, Seteth adopts a tolerant stance toward all (which he didn't have before?? Source?) and asked his followers to do the same (which he never did before either???) and apparently, when he was satisfied because his message not to be, uh, asshats was received, he finally left the monastery.

Because obviously, under the old CoS, when he was leading investigations against the Western Church and called names by those same people because his creed and followers are "too tolerant", he, uh, wasn't "adopting a tolerant stance toward all and encouraging his followers to do the same".

In the JP version :

フレンは戦後まもなく姿を消したが、セテス はその後も大司教補佐として大修道院に留ま り、教団の権威回復に努めた。かつての厳格 さは鳴りを潜め、何事においても寛大な措置 を取るよう運営方針を転換。時代に即した教 義の改革を妥協なく推し進め、信徒に混乱の ないことを見届けてから大修道院を去った

Google'd it gives some :

Flayn disappeared shortly after the war, but Seteth remained at the abbey as an assistant archbishop and worked to restore the authority of the order. His former strictness has subsided, and he has changed his management policy to take more lenient measures in all matters. He uncompromisingly promoted doctrinal reform in line with the times, and after seeing that there was no confusion among the faithful, he left the abbey.

So, sure, there's no fuckery about "a tolerant stance" because the JP script is more coherent with, well, the general script, it's more like Seteth finally stopped being so strict and became a tidbit more lenient.

And yet...

What are those "doctrinal reforms in line with the times"???

How did he change the CoS' doctrine, sure, it was to be "in line with the times", but what was changed?

This ending basically tells us - something Seteth also says in Nopes' expedition lines or in his Tea time lines? - that he doesn't agree with the doctrine (whatever it is he doesn't agree with) and since Seteth is a playable character who can be supported, his PoV is obviously biased as in, for the player, Seteth is the kind guy so if he says the CoS' doctrine needs reformation, he won't reform it to put some "might makes right" rule, but obviously reform it for the better.

What is that "better doctrine"?

This ending can be obtained in all routes where Nabateans aren't hunted to make a world "for humanity", even in SS where Rhea'n'Billy work together to make Fodlan prosperous and miraculous so... in all routes, the Church is reformed.

Houses wise : the Church is always reformed/needs reformation/did BaD things we never saw -> which serves to make it more "shady" and pretend to have "earl grey", because if the Church always needs reformation, then Supreme Leader targeting it isn't completely unjustified and nonsensical, right?

But when Nopes drops FE16's framing a little bit and we see, maybe for 15 seconds, the CoS do stuff... well, even if Seteth mentions "not agreeing with all tenets", from what we see and hear about the CoS, his doubts don't have the same weight since, hey, we witness the "help other if they need it" tenets, "don't impose the CoS' values on people who aren't from Fodlan" tenet, "we will repay our debts" tenet, etc etc.

Is this the part of the doctrine Seteth disagrees with? This doctrine needs reformation?

Tl;Dr : Church BaD which is why Supreme Leader's war isn't completely nonsensical and why the self insert of this opus can rightfully become God and run the show better than anyone who was there before, but we will never show us what this "BaD" entail, we just are told about it.

In turn, this creates Earl Grey and the "morally grey masterpiece uwu" reputation this game has - Agarthans have no place in this Earl Grey masterpiece, that's why some people try to come up with reasons or justifications to explain why they aren't that worse than the faction the game uses a piñata despite showing us all the "not BaD" things they do.

#fantasyinvader #imo it's less than the CoS is destroyed or ignored in the non tru piss ending #but it's always reformed/modified #because the original one under Rhea's leadership needed 'reformation' #whatever this entails #Seteth'n'Flayn's ending in both versions really sucks #that's why I can't take the Fodlan game's plot seriously #i guess we disagree on Claude lol #but back to your original post #Agarthans must be earl greyed because their victims are always depicted as very BaD #let it be by Supreme Leader but even in the rest of the games #so if the fake morally grey comes from the game telling us the sky is red when we see it's always blue #Agarthans musn't be evil and one note like they are in canon #they must somehow have redeeming qualities else it's another strike against #what the game is telling us about the Church being very very BaD and not #just an organisation that basically runs a giant charity #FE16 #3 nopes #i reblogged that post about puritanism #maybe it can also partly explain Pat's hateboner against the CoS? #idk

[randomnameless]

I just saw the screenshot of Bernadetta, as an Adrestian field commander in Hopes, running away in fear and leaving her troops to fend for themselves the second a battle begins on Dimiclaudeblaigan's blog, and i have to concur with her criticisms of the scene; how in the actual fuck did Bernadetta get into such an important position in the army if her crippling anxiety was never solved and she's just going to bolt the second a fight starts??

It's a funny joke, sure, but the only way this makes any sense is if Edelgard gave Bernadetta the position literally just because they were friends and she felt like doing a bit of nepotism by giving her a high-ranking job she was throughly unqualified for, and even that doesn't really work logically; surely there were safer jobs she could have had Bernadetta work on that wouldn't inevitably end with a not-insignificant portion of Adrestia's army getting decimated, especially when she never does anything this (militarily) idiotic anywhere else in the game.

I've seen it too lol

But anon, it applies to Bernie but to any member of the BESF in general, they're joke characters.

Bernie's anxiety and agoraphobia is treated as a joke in those games, and if the shitstorm around Grégoire's support was any indication, she was never supposed to be a character with a serious trauma that will later be explored, like Felix and his teenage rebellion against his Father and/or "chivalry" or Dimitri.

Grégoire tying Bernie to a chair to force her to listen to a lecture is a joke, the "tie to a chair" is the same joke Tibarn uses when he says he tied Reyson to a bed to force him to rest (kinky stuff aside) - it was never about irl abuse. Sure, it doesn't land right most of the times, but again, Bernie (and the BESF in general?) aren't supposed to be taken seriously, they have quirks for funsies and FEH gacha purposes, but Bernie isn't supposed to be a proper call out to the real life situation and "problem" in Japan that are hikikomoris.

Just like Linhardt's haematophobia - do you realise Naruto, with the treatment we all know and hate of its female characters, managed to tackle the issue of a "healer with haematophobia" better something that was released in 2019?

Given how Supremely Aware Supreme Leader is sometimes, I wonder if she didn't saw anything wrong about Bernie being a commander even when Bernie still panics and has a lot of anxiety.

Maybe it was something the devs made on purpose - like yes, it is nepotism (which is WAY better than people being appointed based on their ascendance, right??) and it's another example of "do what I say but not what I do" from supreme Leader, or it was just for a joke because at times the devs seem to consider war as something funny to do between two teatime parties.

In a more serious setting though... Bernie's anxiety would still exist, but be subdued by her choice to fight in this battle (isn't this what we see from Bernie in FE16?) - so maybe this line wasn't added to poke fun at Supreme Leader or have fun at Bernie's expense, but to show how she reacts in a war situation if Billy had never been there to help her?

#anon #replies #burn bernie burn #3 nopes #poor burnie though #I feel kind of bad for her #but honestly after 4 years of people trying to find depths in a rain puddle #Bernie is a painful joke character #and it's upsetting because she could have been much more #but no instead they went with the hikikomori that is saved by the power of the avatar let it be barney or billy #heck since Alois was erased in Nopes I don't even think she mentions her uncle ? Who was the only person she felt safe/alright with?

[randomnameless]

Do you think that Edelgard setting Bernadetta on fire in Three Houses was an oversight from the developers/a bug? I highly doubt the game would have made it out the door without Koei/IS noticing it at some point if that was unintentional, but at the same time, it's extremely weird that no one in the story comments on or acknowledges Bernadetta dying in one of the worst ways a human being can possibly die as a direct result of Edelgard sacrificing her if it was intentional on the devs' part.

Anon,

This series might have forgotten its roots in several opuses, but from Sigurd to Ephidel to Flora, to Rinea and finally to Bernie, we often had fire jokes.

Given how the gameplay was radically different from the others FE and the omnipresence of the monastery, I'd say putting a fire joke was one of the few threads IS made compulsory else FE16 wouldn't be a fire emblem game!

More seriously,

Bernie has way too many lines about being set on fire for this "bug" to be only, well, a bug.

The whole city's burning! Oh, this isn't good! I'm flammable, you know!

Bernie's all "Berned" out now. I guess if they're no good, we'll just have to "Bern" 'em all, eh? Heh-heh!

To which Seteth replies with :

Let's...leave the topic of burning aside for now, shall we? Show me what you've done.

There was also this line :

Maintenant je brûle d'envie de mieux le connaître !

But it's on the french localisation team.

So even if Bernie only has two lines about herself burning alive...

I'd say it's the kind of easter egg that is also found in the game with various other eggs, like enemy!Felix using the Sword of Zoltan in CF because he and Dimitri (who isn't boar!mitri!) are closer than they are in VW - when the player receives said sword if Felix and Dimitri reach a B Support.

And Anon, no one comments on whatever Supreme Leader did or or does, remember Flamey? Emile? Solon? Baldo'n'Waldi being fielded with the Imperial Army? No one asks what kind of zumba Rhea did during those 5 years to be in a near death state?

Not acknowledging Bernie's blazing performance is typical for those games, and I wouldn't except more of them - else it'd mean they could accept that Supreme Leader is a ruhtless but dedicated leader who, as she said, is willing to sacrifice her people to reach her goals, and if they accept this, no one will buy Hresvelg Grey anymore.

#anon #replies #at times you feel like the devs backpedaled when it came to Supreme Leader #honestly if Bernie died and some people on the BESF reproached it to Supreme LEader #and she tells them Bernie died to make a better world she was a sacrifice so their world has to come to fruition else she would have died #for nothing and the BESF reluctantly agrees #that would have made a more compelling character than #ignorting the Titanus in the room! #Burn Bernie Burn #FE16 #I forgot what was my Bernie tag #welp

[randomnameless]

The "i don't want to kill Edelgard" dialogue the game forces you to pick for Byleth in Verdant Wind is still one the funniest things in the game when you think about what that means in-universe; Byleth has had no issues killing people to get what they want all route-long, but the second Claude brings up killing the girl who started the war and is most at fault for everyone that died because of it, including her own soldiers, they say they don't want to, presumably just because they had such a deep bond with her during their time at Garreg Mach (even though it's perfectly possible to have Byleth spend all their time there never interacting with Edelgard once).

It's shit like that that makes me understand where the same-crest attraction people come from; that forced dialogue choice is at least understandable in Silver Snow, where Byleth is forced to teach Edelgard for a while and would have logicaly formed a bond with her because of that, but the only way that line makes any sense in VW is to assume that their crests made them feel a deeply-heightened and accelerated sense of attraction to each other, to the point that the few short and irrelevant interactions they had in their short time together at GM was enough for them to form a deep bond.

Anon,

If same crust attraction was a thing, do you really thing Billy would angst about Supreme Leader in VW, when Nemesis himself pops up at the end of the route???

I mean, between Supreme Leader and Nemesis, who are you going to simp for if you never talked to any of them, and both are leading a faction to destroy you and your allies?

Supreme Leader, or Nemesis??

All jokes aside,

There's, sadly, no Watsonian explanation for the very Doylist "but she lufs u!!! feel sad about her!!!" approach the devs wanted to hamfist in their game : Billy will feel bad for killing Supreme Leader, even if it doesn't make any sense for them to do so because that is why the devs designed FE16 to be : a story where the player will feel bad about killing the red emperor.

(or at least the player avatar, because damn if this completely missed the mark regarding some players lol)

Just like you feel super BaD for icing Randolph and Ferdie who still works with the Empire, fighting side by side with a Demonic Beast - when the game doesn't expect you to feel a thing when you kill the poor sod who was turned into a monster because the Imperial Army needs War Assets.

that's why some people really felt a bit disturbed by all this Supreme Pandering coming out of nowhere - same with Rhea in VW since her supports are optional, so if Billy is really a player avatar, why should they care about Rhea?

(granted, I'd say even if you only do the strict minimum, Billy still wants to help Rhea in the cinematic before falling in a ravine, so at least there's this sign that Billy cares about her - sure, Billy protected and saved Supreme Leader against Kostas, but after the Flamey reveal, we don't have anything to even remotely indicate Billy still cares specially about Supreme Leader : Billy's avatar status is the reason why they're written to care about Supreme Leader, and yet, Billy's character status explain why they care about Rhea - again, another example of the devs wanting to have their cake and eat it too!)

#anon #replies #remove the devs's “but we want to sell Supreme alts!” and the game #might make more sense #maybe as not Billy specifically caring about Supreme Leader but more Claude #who doesn't like needless bloodshed and talks about how their ideals are kind of similar and how they could have allied #to hint at Nopes #have Dimitri go full Roland in the Golden route mode #still hate and want revenge on Supreme Leader for destroying Faerghus and the rest of Flamey's deeds but also #wanting to accept a world without bloodshed and how he accepts that despite everything she doesn't need to die #because his wish to save everyone is stronger than his hatred of her guts #but that would imply rewritting the game so much that #well this Dee couldn't exist unless he's basically throwing the world in jeopardy for Supreme Leader and his own ideals #especially if it's finally revealed what the fuck Rhea went through during those 5 years #that made her aka someone who can facetank missiles #on the verge of death and imperative Nabatean sleep

[randomnameless]

The Fodlan games are doing such a bad job at antagonizing Rhea the joke writes itself. I think one of the worst example is how in the Shambala chapter of Nopes Dimitri will say " Yes I agree with you Clout the church is oppressive and mistreating the people but I need to side with it for the sake of the people" like ?? Can KT stop trying to paint Rhea as evil they are doing a terrible job at it and as a result make all the character sound like complete buffon

Nopes is basically using the premise of some early AO3 fanfics, where an uwu golden route is only possible if everyone allies against the Church bcs Church BaD, even if it means Clout and Dimitri have to be A-OK with MAGA.

Dimitro in Zahrofl is just... Ron who became a death eater, I guess, because otherwise, that plot point would never work.

The CoS is oppressive and mistreats people, that's why they're helping his very own people - under his authorisation - let it be the monks and priests from the CoS or the knights of the KoS who are dying to protect Faerghus.

So we have some "they're evil evil evil" told, hammered in 2/3rds of the game - and I'd say even AG is kind of hinting it, because the Kingdom doesn't want to help them because that's the right thing to do, but because they need to help them otherwise some people won't be happy, and etc etc tradition and apparently the CoS is the reason why the Kingdom exists, or something (Loog who?)

But in a way, I find it very interesting, because to get this "Rhea BaD" nonsense that is supposed to glue the plot of both games (even FE16 with the uwu "ReFoRmS" ending with the CoS being reformed, because... Adrestians were acting like asses to Adrestians, i guess), the Fodlan games bank on Rhea not being playable/support-able or even being able to interact with her - save for the worst support of the game -

(tfw she has no line with Flayn in FE16)

We have the "baby's first steps" framing from WC where the game makes a spectacular show of framing her as "BaD" and "OmInOuS" for executing people who killed her wards, telling a bunch of third parties that if they point their swords and weapons at her and her people she will flatten them and asking to young people aiming to be military leaders because they enrol in an officer's academy to rekt bandits or to participate in subduing an insurrection that might be led against her, but targets randoms who are "in the way" and was going to bring ruin to a bunch of non fighters.

And it's all for naught, because WC ends on the "twist" that Supreme Leader was the mastermind behind all the terrorist/biological attacks that prompted the CoS to react - and yet, the game is written in a way that you remember the cast being "frightened" by Rhea executing robbers who robbed lives, but not the cast being disgusted and enraged and feeling betrayed by their "uwu classmate" viewing all of their lives as unconsequential and turning innocent people in live weapons, including some students themselves

(or at least being furious at Supreme Leader for abiding and associating with those terrorists who turn fellow classmates in biological weapons)

And then we have all those "the church must be reformed", even with Seteth's own endings - furthering the point that Rhea was BaD, because if she wasn't, why her church needs reformation?

In the end, we have a character who is BaD but Billy cares for her despite her BaDnEsS, so she's redeemable... as long as Billy wants to befriend her.

Meanwhile, "I wanted to walk with u" is framed as a tragedy in the routes where you have to kill her - the player (?) and the cast feel bad for her because of... uh, reasons (uwudeals) and her most ominous actions are swept under Fodlan's rug.

FFS, Leonie is the only character - bar Dimitri who laters learns to "accept" Supreme Leader - who holds a grudge at her for what happened in WC!

Nopes just gave the occasion to the BL - who completely dropped her from the plot even if she was still tackled because "CoS needs ReFoRmS" - to diss her, which makes them look even more ridiculous (or the writing feel even more forced) because she's sitting next to them, giving soup to orphans...

But in Nopes, Faerghus, the Kingdom of very toxic notions like "helping each other in times of need" and "protecting your loved ones and the ones who cannot protect themselves" suddenly decide to throw Rhea and the CoS away because refugees apparently started the war since they didn't want to die, and this war is now brought to their hometurf even if Supreme Leader said she wanted to erase said hometurf to conquer Fodlan :/

Tl;Dr : Rhea BaD bcs she exists, and if you didn't understood that after playing both games, you need to play them again!

#anon #replies #fodlan nonsense #old ask from january lol #3 Nopes #Rhea stuff #Rhea BaD #i remember a friend made a post some years ago about framing #WC really sucks balls with it #whenever the CoS eats a potato the CoS is BaD #but when the other factions eat potatoes they're not BaD #ergo the blame lays on the CoS itself not on their actions because Rhea is naturally BaD #I am still dying to know what are those reforms being pushed around in some endings that the CoS needed #and how important they were

[randomnameless]

"Like, Miss “I already sent my troops to conquer your lands even if you are not the one harbouring the evil lizard lady I’m trying to get rid off” would really stop her war of conquest if the evil lizard lady dies?" You could say Clout's reasoning smacks of naivete.

Clout? Reasoning?

lol

Imo, in GW, Clout is playing on levels after levels of PR (like an onion!), and this "let's kill Rhea so the war will stop" is imo a PR excuse to justify invading Faerghus and getting Rhea out of the board.

Now, why the hateboner for Rhea herself, your guess is as good as mine (at least Supreme Leader has her "negative views based on Rhea's race", but I don't know it that's any better...).

(ramblings about Claude/Clout under the cut)

Claude isn't stupid (uh...) and knows Fodlan created the locket and the Officers Academy to fight back invasions of Almyra, and yet he seems to really believe (in FE16 at least) that Rhea is the reason why Fodlan apparently doesn't like foreigners, before discovering water is wet.

Worst reading, but one I can get behind, is Claude doesn't understand and resents the fact that Rhea, who is not a head of state, is listened to and loved by the randoms in Fodlan, she can influence them (only when they want to be infuenced though!) and the CoS, as an institution, is part of Fodlan's history and DNA/backbone.

If Claude wants to shatter everything to bring a "new age" where Fodlan will welcome with open arms their very friendly Almyran neighbours, Rhea has to be "shattered" too.

Take VW's ending :

Country, faith, history... All that had once formed the order of the world was wiped clean. The heroes whose very hands saved Fódlan from a dark fate commenced with the building of a new society. The leaders of this new, unified Fódlan began their walk down a seemingly endless path—one towards a world that would cherish differences in race and belief, one where all life would be valued equally. Those leaders clung to the hope that their path would not end with Fódlan, that it would someday span the seas to Dagda, and beyond the Throat to Almyra...

You get rid of the old and existing society/structure, to build a new one, based on lofty ideals, sure, and yet, again, how can you cherish differences in beliefs in you wipe Fodlan's faith, aka the thing people believed in? What about their history and individualities/differences ? It's wiped clean too?

A bit like Tru Piss's mistranslated ending where people thought it will erase retroactively Faerghus from history books, are we supposed to understand , from this ending, that Claude will erase Adrestia, Faerghus and Leicester from memory?

And the ominous last paragraph, what does it mean, they hope to export their path of "wiping clean" the world of "country, faith, history" too?

If we take this reading, Rhea and the CoS are inherent parts of Fodlan's identity and History. If Claude wants a blank chessboard to play "melting pot" with and ultimately add it to his future pot including Almyra, Dagda and whoever else, Rhea and the CoS, but also, the different states from Fodlan, had to disappear. Supreme Leader helped him with the "get rid of 3 states" and arguably with Rhea's death, so in a way, Claude reaps what Supreme Leader started.

But not to MAGA, to create a new land encompassing everyone (whether they want it or not!) and being one of its heads.

This is, imo, the darkest take/reading on Claude's situation and plans, but bear in mind yellow units in FE Jugdral (the game tool inspiration from Jugdral per the devs!) are antagonists, add to that Nopes and even FE16's Claude who, albeit not on the level of Supreme Leader, keeps his plans to himself - and always mentions tearing down the "walls" that separate Fodlan from the outside world, without ever mentionning the fact those walls were built for some reason.

It's not important anyways, and if you think otherwise, it's because you were led to think otherwise, we should all be friends.

Sure, interacting with outsiders doesn't contradicts Seiros's tenets, but in the end, what is Claude saying?

If I can realize my dream, Fódlan will be reborn. The old age will end and we'll welcome a new dawn.

The current Fodlan, that is supposed to follow Seiros's tenets will... end? Seiros' tenets says something, but they still need to be ignored to build a new world that will promote the same thing those tenets preached.

Hm.

The issue, imo, isn't about what is being preached, but with the "Seiros tenets" in themselves.

#replies #anon #character rant #character salt #in a way the layers of PR and knowing when he's being true to his feelings makes him an interesting character #which is closer to Supreme Leader indeed #but just like her the fact no one challenges him is infuriating #just like the realisation he never trusts anyone #bar Billy and even this is very light #do you seriously think wiping history and faith can be done? #there's reason why Seiros the Warrior and the end of the WoH had to paint Nemesis and the Relic users as #not the people they were #tbh the ending mural made me reconsider a lot of stuff about VW and Claude's character in general #but maybe i'm off #fe16

[randomnameless]

I think there's another element that just screams why Wilhelm's meritocracy failed. Nemesis and the Elites weren't just viewed as heroes, their weapons were viewed as sacred and people followed their example by killing and stealing to increase their own power. The Empire were viewed as zealots by their people, people which Wilhelm then took into his power. These people believed in an ideology that seems to have viewed Agarthans as gods, their belief systems are going to align with that ideology and while some might have bent the knee and some might have fled, others might have just paid lip service to the new religion in order to maintain their own power (much like Lorenz says they do in the present).

This whole discussion also seems to make what Wilhelm did not much better than Edelgard's "I'll conquer lands and kill any leaders who don't bend the knee," and irony is coming to bite Rhea in the ass by a descendant who champions the same beliefs she fought against But on the other hand, their intents were different. Wilhelm wanted unification to end the bloodshed and stealing, bringing peace to Fodlan. Edelgard broke the peace to bring those ways back and increase her own power, completing the moral decline and becoming everything the Empire was supposed to be against.

TBF,

Both Wilhelm and Supreme Leader start wars of conquest, so there are some similarities, but as you said, intent was different.

Which might explain why there were - if we follow this theory/hc - why there was no civil war in WoH Adrestia, when Tru Piss ends up with dealing with "unrest", in the Tru Piss situation, instead of appointing Leopold as the governer of Leicester, Willy could have appointed Gloucester Sr and conscripted part of his troops in the Adrestian War Effort.

The "bend the knee or die" behaviour from Supreme Leader comes from her wish to be the only, well, "Supreme Leader" of Fodlan and/or as explained in FE16, try to replace Sothis/the CoS in Fodlan by herself.

I guess in the WoH's situation, it was either "side with us or with nemesis", with the added twist that siding with Nemesis meant being an inherent threat to Adrestia (if might makes right), the CoS's teachings and Nabateans themselves - I'd say Willy was paranoiac but who wouldn't be if they had to deal with this situation : siding with Nemesis means possibly learning how to make Relics and that's, imo in this theory, the one thing Wilhelm wants to avoid at all costs.

Like, siding with Nemesis would have meant those people want to continue to kill/pillage/burn because "they're strong so they can do it", and possibly turn against Wilhelm's trusted allies (if not more! like, possibly, his own son!) to turn them in shiny weapons to become even "stronger".

In the end, it doesn't matter, because subjugation is subjugation, but if Willy doesn't want to MAGA - or isn't as obsessed with it as his most well-known scion - but only to kill Nemesis and make Fodlan a peaceful land where Nabateans can exist, I could see Adrestian occupation being "lighter" then, say, what happens in Firdhiad during AM.

Thinking about this though, I wonder if Rhea mediating and ackowledging the Kingdom's existence isn't a way to "make up" for Willy's subjugation - sure maybe he wasn't the one to consider northerners as subhumans, but this situation still happened because Adrestia conquered those lands and those people - and restoring their autonomy to those people, with, of course, the constant presence of the Church to "guide" them in the right course of action, and not start to, again, kill/pillage/burn because they're stronger and maybe find the sleeping Cethleann to vivisect her.

Of course it's ironic, because even with the Western Church, it's the Kingdom who supports and helps her and more or less adopted Willy's ideas about what a noble should be (not someone holing themselves in the capital!) when Adrestia fell apart in 7 years !

---

Willy's conquest is fascinating to me, because no matter how hard I try to spin it, there's still the issue - not tackled by the Fodlan games of course - of Nabateans and Relics : humans, during the WoH, know how to craft Relics, and what material they should use (I doubt Rhea'n'the Saints used hair dye for fun) - how do you remove this "knowledge" from humans, especially the ones following Nemesis who were depicted as greedy and power hungry?

Even if he might have had the best intentions (restore peace to the land, and support the Nabateans) Wilhelm had to deal with this issue -> which ultimately led to the "bend the knee (and remain ignorant about relics) or (possibly learn how to make relics and) die", it sucks, but it might have been the solution he found to solve this riddle.

So, in a way, given how the Empire was founded on a "bend the knee or die" as all Empires are, imo, Adrestia was bound to decline, even if I think Nabatean influence would have slowed it tremendously, and, say, made Enbarrites not consider Northeners as livestock (so maybe everyone could have coexisted "peacefully" a bit longer).

As for the people who joined Willy (thus bent the knee) -

Given how Adrestia at inception was nothing and the Empire had no Relics nor crested kickass warriors like Nemesis (sure, Seiros is a thing, but there's 1 Seiros and 4 Saints for 11 Elites and Nemesis!), I wonder if the people who joined Adrestia at first weren't joining the "weakest" horse, thus had to let go of their "might makes right" motto.

I also think the CoS helped a lot to smoothen things between conqueror and conquered - maybe by offering relief and helping rebuild the conquered lands, something that would be impossible in Nemesis' land (why the winners, aka, the strong, help the weak?) - and the Empire banked on the CoS's good PR to be more easily accepted by the people?

As for the ones who paid lip service, well, they might have existed lol, but I'd say, learning Nemesis keeps on losing (even if he is the strongest) when he's fighting someone who doesn't even have a relic (tfw people think Wilhelm is the one fighting Nemesis and not Rhea!) might have made them reconsider the Agarthan's pov and what they were really believing in - if Gods gave Nemesis'n'co their weapons, why is a loser like Wilhelm, not blessed by the same "gods", able to defeat them?

Maybe the God from the Seiros Faith is stronger than the Gods who blessed Nemesis? So the Seiros Faith is the real deal?

#fantasyinvader #Fodlan AU #War of heroes stuff #pre imperial era #sort of #adrestia stuff #no matter the era humans will ditch agarthans to worship Sothis lol #even if Willy might have wanted to conquer the world for more selfish reasons like Supreme Leader #he still had to deal with people knowing about relics and nabateans #if lycaon is rhea's kid then it's doubly a priority #he wants to win because nemesis is an asshole to bring peace to the land #but also to hide the truth about relics else Lycaon will be torn apart and turned in a pair of daggers #given how the kid “was died” mysteriously i guess Willy failed #FE16