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twdmusicboxmystery · 11 months

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More Dialogue Parallels and Bethyl Arc Analysis (Part 3)

@wdway:

@galadrieljones, something that I found interesting when I was reading @twdmusicboxmystery's post this morning from her TLL coda post, that I had forgotten about, was the writing above the French man.

"Les morts sont nes ici." @twdmusicboxmystery translated it from French to English. "The dead were born here." I was thinking about that as I was writing this afternoon, who wrote it? It wouldn't have been the scientist.

I feel it must have been someone who came and, " jailed them" but won't do that again, if they come back the man said "we'll kill them" just before he killed the woman. It implies that these people were some how different, they weren't the same as the man or persons that came looking. Some of "them" were taken to jail others seem to be hunted down and killed.

The woman has been on the run. Is it more than just being upset about team Primrose and team Violet creating the virus? It seems to be more than just that. And I'm wondering if the religious group that Daryl will be involved with is part of this group of hunters or the ones being hunted because they are different.

I'm suddenly thinking about terminus and how they were actually a sanctuary and then "others" came in killing the Terminus group and they had to choose in become either (my mind just went totally blank help me out here) was it the cattle or the butcher? Could that be part of what Terminus was foreshadowing?

@galadrieljones:

Yes, cattle and butcher. I think John Proctor from Fear says almost the same thing right before Nick blows the dam. It’s something else tho, “you either harness the fury or you get stampeded.” That’s when a Nick says his key phrase, “I’m looking for a third way,” which is I think related to the good shepherd, the shepherd who doesn’t go searching for trouble and who is not a pacifist but who is willing to kill the wolves if that’s what it takes to defend his flock.

The good shepherd is Christ’s self-proclaimed role, and I think it’s part of Beth’s “I get it now” statement. She can’t just walk away. She needs to kill Dawn to end the reign of terror at Grady. It’s an interesting notion. Are the “religious nationalists” the ones hunting the scientists? Will Daryl be faced with a hard choice?

@wday:

Yes, yes, yes! To all you just wrote! There's another saying that wasn't in TWDU but in real life. Something that I believe it was in American Sniper? Something to the effect of are you a sheep a wolf or a shepherd. Something along that line. I was just thinking how we were told at the end of Still that (paraphrasing) our mother's been gone for a long time but there's going to be a party when the wolf comes home. Obviously I can't remember the exact lyrics but you get my drift. I'm going to go Google about any sayings of sheep, wolves, and Shepherds.

@galadrieljones:

Yes, Up the Wolves!! “Our mother has been absent ever since we founded Roam. But there’s gonna be a party when the wolf comes home.”

A reference to Romulus and Remus being raised by a she-wolf after their mother abandons them and then founding the city of Rome.

You should definitely go read or reread the entire good shepherd passage from the Bible. I can’t remember where it is but it’s east to find via google, and it’s super enlightening and I think it’s really a key to understanding Rick in seasons 4-6, and then Daryl in seasons 6-8.

Beth is the template of the good shepherd. She chooses the third way in one of the most random and confusing acts of the entire series, and she dies for it. This turns Rick into a wolf and Daryl into a sheep. Beth starts clearly as a sheep and then she gets beaten up and betrayed at Grady and she wolfs out. She’s then about to go kill Edwards (or Dawn?) out of vengeance until Carol arrives and then she changes her mind. She needs them to save Carol.

If she had acted rashly she would not have been able to do that and Carol might have died. She realizes this and that she needs to be smart. She becomes a leader to make things go her way, ie: she’s the coffee, changing the water, not changed by the water.

Rick is a sheep in the prison, re: Carol: “You can be a farmer Rick. You can’t just be a farmer.” Then, rick is “out there too long” and he becomes a wolf, re: just insane in season 5, killing Lambson in cold blood, talking about taking over the ASZ like a tyrant and killing ppl if he has to.

After Beth, Daryl becomes sheepish and withdrawn. He goes out of his way then, when invited by Aaron, to try and do something good, basically for Beth. He tries to help Dwight and Sherry and then he’s betrayed by Dwight, and Dwight kills Denise. After this, Daryl wolfs out. He gets drunk and goes into the woods alone. Glenn, Michonne, and Rosita go after him and this is when they’re apprehended by the Saviors and Glenn dies. Daryl thinks this is all because he was too weak to do what needed to be done and killing Dwight.

So he loses his humanity in the Sanctuary. He kills the savior in cold blood and then he becomes very cold through season 7-8 basically until Carl dies. His arrows track his transformation. When he’s with Beth they’re green. Then after Noah dies they slowly become more red. He loses his crossbow to Dwight and doesn’t use one again until East, when he uses his old crossbow, from pre-Clear. He shoots a green arrow at Rosita.

This is the last time he’ll shoot a green arrow until after Chokepoint when he becomes friends with Connie. Morgan is also a great example of this duality. He can’t kill his wife, so his wife enters his flock and picks off his lamb. He then goes on a rampage. He meets Eastman and vows that all life is precious so therefore he doesn’t kill. But later he realizes that he must sometimes kill BECAUSE all life is precious and it must be preserved. If you don’t kill the wolves they’ll kill everyone. It’s a sacrifice.

I think this is also related to your us vs. them thing,@wdway. Like, after Beth, Rick is becoming the wolf. He compares them to the walking dead. Killing to survive. Daryl, who is trying to be a shepherd, but who loses his way and becomes a sheep instead, proclaims that “We ain’t them.”

Both men are at extremes and opposite ends of the spectrum. They cross paths like a Venn diagram in Monsters. Rick looks in the mirror, sees the monster he’s become. He meets Morales. He wants to spare him, but why? He doesn’t know. Daryl kills him in an instant. That’s what Rick should have done. Rick is horrified. He sees himself in Daryl. Daryl later kills the savior after Rick promises that if he gives information, he’ll let him live. Rick is again horrified. This is when Rick begins to change.

@wdway:

I was thinking along the lines that Gimple really likes biblical figures and I was thinking about one of the most famous and my personal favorite from the Old Testament King David. In the Old Testament, young David was not a great fighters like his older, bigger, stronger brothers. David was young, his job was to watch over the sheep from the wolves that would eat them. He loved writing poems and sing songs. But he became a strong, brave shepherd protected his sheep.

David was sent out to slay the Giant Warrior Goliath. Others tried to put armor on him trying to make him a warrior because they believe that's the only person that could kill Goliath had to be a warrior but David said no, his weapon was God's will. He slayed Goliath with his slingshot. The giant against the young man.

Beth to Daryl in Still: "I'm not Michonne. I'm not Carol. I'm not Maggie. I survived and you don't get it 'cause I'm not like you or them."

All three of those women are the warriors of TWD. Beth is the young woman, the little sister who took care of Judith. Beth is the young David, she will slay her Goliath. Guess where the famous statue of David is? That's right, the Louvre Museum in Paris.

@galadrieljones:

Love this!! David and Goliath is a really amazing allegory for Beth. Beth and David are very similar, I know youv’e said this before. David is the musician, the underdog. He is favored by Saul and friends with Saul’s son, but he has to go into hiding because Saul is suddenly worried that David is trying to steal the throne.

The story of David is also in the Book of Samuel. David’s father is named Jesse. Very weird coincidence all these names showing up in season 5!!!! But there is no main or even minor character named David in TWDU, despite all the many other important Biblical names. Jesse and David are also ancestors of Jesus Christ.

I did NOT know about the statue of David being in the Louvre!! Also, Daryl’s fight with Beta always reminded me of David vs. Goliath. Beta falls down the elevator shaft in a clear callback to Slabtown.

@wdway:

There was a David in season 4. A very important character although we only saw him once taking down walkers at the fence with Karen. Carol killed Karen and David. In indifference she was vanished by Rick. Written by Matthew Negrete.

@galadrieljones:

Oh you are right duh. Karen and David.

Yeah he is all over these important episodes!

@wdway:

Wasn't there another David? David and Bess or Betty or something similar, it was a B name. This was in the season 6.

It's the guy who got bit on the shoulder and Michonne and he became kind of friends for a few hours. He was left at a fence because he could not climb over and the walkers got to him. When they got back to Alexandria they told his wife. The next morning Jesse went to check on her and she was a walker locked in her house. She must have committed suicide. I think she slashed her wrist.

@galadrieljones:

Dang I think you’re right! Good memory on that one.

@wdway:

I remember it because there was a lot of talk in the Bethyl fandom about the two characters names begin with D and B and they did not find each other until after the world fell apart.

@twdmusicboxmystery:

I also really love the David and Goliath analogy. That's genius! I want to think about it more, but I love it! So, if Beth is David, does that make Daryl Bathsheba? 😈 I mean, he did sleep with Leah. Hehe.

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl #team delusional

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evilneo · 1 year

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Mal MAL we're getting Miku v Leading Li- I mean Loverboy! I need to hear your thoughts on Leading Light's thoughts on Miku please please please

I asked my LL fictive thoughts on her while I was back in headspace and he thinks shes "A talented young woman whos going places! <3 :-)" and holds no grudge <3

but if you want CANON TLL. well I want you to look deep into your heart and ask yourself, would that guy really have honest to lord personal beef with a 16yo? the answer is yes btw <3

#asks #merklins #HIIIII MERIN I MISSED U IN MY ALMOST 2 WEEK LONG FRONT BREAK :)#vrv thoughts

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vennspo · 2 years

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i cant tll if im fucked up form the booze , blood loss , or hair chemicals . probably all 3 right noa . im alone for thr next 2 days , i had 2 shots and did styros on my wrist . just waiting for my hait to process so i can shower lmao . also j havent eaten tofay . :)))))))) see u all in a while im not gonna sleep for like another 20 hours lmaoo its 10pm

#tw ana thoughts #4n0r3x14 #an0rex14 #pro 4na #4na blog #anarecyx #ricecaketwt #styr0blr #styr0twt #th11n$p0 #i will be skiny #tw sh related #styrotumblr #tw self destructive behavior #self mutalition

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teonys-jf · 2 years

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talkin about the schools lets gooooo

there are 5 high schools, since its the same land from mcd just a tad smaller

o’khasis, phoenix drop, and t’liu meet up in 3 corners

scaleswing is somewhere between phoenix drop and o’khasis

by the way those are cities, and the mainland has enveloped the bi’an territories so werewolfs and fel’ines don’t have their separate islands anymore

anyway we’re here for schools

the ranking goes: o’khasis preparatory school, phoenix drop high school, t’liu lyceum, falcon claw high school, then scale high school

their acronyms are oks, pdh, tll, fch, and sh

their school mascot/symbols are knight named eldren/a black cross, phoenix called ash/drop of water, a paintbrush with eyes named ‘brushie’, falcon named claw, and a dragon scale {wyverns and dragons have become one by mystreet, and extinct}

o’khasis is the private and proper school, phoenix drop is the more laidback fancy school, t’liu lyceum is mostly focused on arts, falcon claw high is a nice public school, and scale high is a bad public school

all schools are invited to host/attend the annual end of the year sports competition

the children have taken this too seriously and parade with their trophies year after year, despite their teachers saying that this is a social event and for fun

kai, michi, and mikai moved from tll for their freshman years

ein moved during his junior year while maria and balze moved for their sophomore years, sasha moved during middle school; all of them used to attend fch

vylad and zane transferred in the middle of their freshman years while kim moved about the first month of freshman year from oks

garte funds both pdh and oks

reese, marsh, mccloud, krystal, xavier, and ken went to o’khasis prep and stayed

jenna attends scale high, luka has tried talking with her at the sports competition with sasha and it didn’t really go anywhere

luka, jenny, cathy, and diana went to fch

betty and mac went to t’liu lyceum

they became friends around sophomore year

during the sports event, the kids of pdh have to wear the school symbol somewhere

the captains of teams get to wear a badge with the symbol of the sport on it

luka was the baseball captain of fch and would try and flirt with katelyn, pointing where the ball would go while winking or blow a kiss before a homerun

some of the kids would get together after the event and hang out, usually the ones who wouldn’t care if they won or lost but would congratulate the winners

garroth, laurence, dante, travis, jeoffery, lillian, luka, jenny, and cathy would go out to eat as a group; after a couple of showers on good days, sometimes covered in dirt if they were too excited

garroth would drag katelyn along, promising she’d have a good time {she does}

sasha would go even after she quit tennis, calling a couple of these people friends {think lillian, luka, jenny, and cathy}

some of the places would put up ‘be weary’ posters for some of the kids {think garroth, laurence, or dante} because of how loud they’d get

their dates would give them a weird look as they try and explain how they threw food across the room trying to play ‘baseball’

o’khasis prep has strict dress coded uniforms, while pdh has a catalogue of items you can pick from {blazers, skirts, shorts, pants, dress shirts, and shoes- the kids can accessorize however they wish}, tll hands out verification badges for after school activities, fch and sh have no uniform

o’khasis puts sports and grades above all else, as long as their numbers don’t change significantly from last year

t’liu has the highest reported mental health of the schools

#irena's afterthoughts #irena's sticky note #phoenix drop high #aphmau

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billowyy · 1 year

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Tagged by @overwhelmedbumblebee 💕💕

Pass the happy! 🌈 When you get this, reply with 5 things that make you happy and send this to the last 10 people in your notifications! :D

1. The new pink hat I ordered. It's The Linda Linda's merch (love this band). I've been wanting a pink hat for ages and this one is on sale rn (I also got the pink shirt that's on sale 🥰💕 TLL's are coming to my city this summer but! They're opening for Paramore at an arena and I'm not interested in that experience, nor can I afford it, so I'm very happy that this merch (pink!!!) was on sale)

2. The little new growth my raven zz plant has

3. Ghost Files

4. My bouquet of Lego flowers that I see every time I look up from my computer

5. Sufjan Stevens 🎶 (to the surprise of absolutely nobody)

#tag game

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year2000electronics · 2 years

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i really truly hope that TLL and The Loveletters are so balls to the walls fucked up and evil (affectionate) <3

i can personally assure you. they have so many problems. they are a triangle of hatred. they are crabs in a bucket. but they look SO good

#mothra answers

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ingravinoveritas · 1 year

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<3 all ur d&m pics that show them as a couple. how many ppl who say that get as much stupid mail as u do? probably not many which sux. u say what everybody sees and then ppl get butthurt.

Aww thank you, Anon! I appreciate this so much. Yes, I have definitely had more than my share of stupid/hate mail (which you can see in my #the fact that i even gotta respond to this and #fandom woes tags) over the past few years. And it seems like every few months, a thread pops up on Twitter of people bashing RPF or anyone who talks about the possibility of Michael and David as a couple. I saw one such thread last night (not linking to it, cause it's not worth it), but I was struck by how...pointless...it seemed.

Because what I see--overwhelmingly--more than threads like that is comments like the Pinterest ones I've recently highlighted. Sometimes I see comments that are from as far back as four years ago, but I've seen a lot more newer comments, too. So the people who waste their time railing against RPF/shipping Michael and David seem willfully ignorant of the fact that a) A lot more people either don't care anymore because it's not a big deal/we have bigger issues to contend with; and b) Michael and David ship themselves with each other more than anyone else ever could.

It is interesting to me, what you said about this being something everyone sees. If that is the case, I do have to wonder why there is such an issue with me saying it out loud. Michael and David are over here calling each other their "other partner," "other wife," "lover," "emotional support pet" and so on and that's somehow fine, but then I get attacked for pointing out the possibility that maybe--maybe--they might not be joking. Or are telling the truth in the guise of a joke. And what really grates my cheese is that I've always said that I am more than open to the idea that Michael and David are just friends and nothing has happened between them...yet the anti-shipping crowd won't even consider the idea that something has, or that they could be more than friends.

I also think it's noteworthy that there truly are countless pictures of Michael and David looking like a couple. Not only from the GO press tour, and not only from 2019, but consistently over the past four years. Even when they're not in the same room, that 'vibe' is always present (such as on TLL, when Michael straight up bought David on national television and said he was going to keep him in his basement). And that's what I see people commenting on--casual fans who (for any number of reasons) more often than not pair Michael with David (and vice-versa) instead of their own partners.

So yes, it has been frustrating to see people getting butthurt (that Twitter thread from last night got under my skin somewhat because I was just starting to write a new MS/DT fic, and it felt like someone throwing a wet blanket on my ideas). But as I've said before, I would much rather people come for me than another person who would be far more affected/devastated by it. I will always talk honestly about the things I see and the observations I make, and I'm happy that my blog has become a place for people to safely share their thoughts, too.

Hopefully the discourse will improve some when GO 2 comes out (and if/when there is a press tour) and we get to see Michael and David together again. In the meantime, I'm so glad to have received your message, Anon. Thanks for writing in! x

#anonymous #reply post #michael sheen #welsh seduction machine #david tennant #soft scottish hipster gigolo #fandom woes #i'd rather look like a 'bad' fan and talk about the reality of the situation #than look like a 'good' fan by ignoring it #michael ships himself with david more than anyone else ever could #the fact that there are countless examples by now should be enough to make people stop attacking shippers #and yet #good omens rpf #ineffable lovers #discourse

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