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#boron group
tenth-sentence · 9 months
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The elements in group 13, with a single electron in a p orbital as well as two valence s electrons, display chemical reactivity characteristic of three valence electrons.
"Chemistry" 2e - Blackman, A., Bottle, S., Schmid, S., Mocerino, M., Wille, U.
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todays-xkcd · 1 month
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Cesium-133, let it be. Cesium-134, let it be even more.
Periodic Table Regions [Explained]
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[A periodic table with regions labeled.]
[Hydrogen:] Slightly fancy protons [Lithium and Beryllium:] Weird dirt [Group 1 & 2 metals, Periods 3-4:] Regular dirt [Group 1 & 2 metals, Periods 5-7:] Ends in a number, let it slumber ends in a letter, not much better [Left side of the transition metals group:] Boring alloy metals Probably critical to the spark plug industry or something (but one of them is radioactive so stay on your toes) [Most of the top row of the transition metals + aluminum:] Regular metals [Below the rightmost "regular metals" - the "ordinary metals" and some transition metals:] Weird metals [The platinum group:] $$$$ [Boron:] Boron (fool's carbon) [Carbon, Nitrogen, Oxygen, and Phosphorus:] You are here [The Halogens:] Safety goggles required [Noble Gases:] Lawful neutral [Iodine and Radon:] Very specific health problems [Ordinary metals and metalloids - Arsenic, Antimony, Tellurium, Thallium, Lead, Bismuth, Polonium] Murder weapons [Astatine and Period 7 from Rutherfordium onwards:] Don't bother learning their names - they're not staying long [Lanthanides and Actinides:] Whoever figures out a better way to fit these up there gets the next Nobel Prize
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wyrm-in-a-closet · 6 months
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^reference if you need it
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hershelwidget · 1 year
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I COULDNT STOP THINKING ABOUT IT SO HERE. FIRST TEN PERIODIC ELEMENTS
Listen I had to do it. Might do one that is specifically the groups as well
reblog for sample size!! i am NOT doing ALL OF THE ELEMENTS but i am going to be very funny later. you have been warned
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vampiricegirl · 7 months
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everyones favorite nonbinary fail coterie - the noun coterie!
made with this picrew
toothpick - brujah - transmasc [he/him] - hes the leader of group. hes loud, sweaty, stinky, obnoxious. but he loves his friends and would die for them. he has a boston accent and uses way too much slang. always ready to throw down and put his filthy combat boots on the table. mercury - tremere - nonbinary [they/them] - ur favorite judgey asexual smartie pants. gets tired of toothpick sometimes but inevitably would do anything for him. they have trauma : ( but its ok bc they are working on it! and the rest of the nouns r helping them. do not mess with them bc they are deceptively strong for a pacifist. boron - malkavian - transmasc [he/they] - hes a malkavian with a stutter but a heart of gold. cares abt their friends and is basically the glue keeping them together. he loves music and being a watchful eye on all his closest friends. : ) drives a hearse bc its FUNNY and IRONIC and very AFFORDABLE and FITS ALL OF THEM COMFORTABLY. cookie - thinblood - nonbinary [she/they] - newest addition to the coterie. super sweet and soft. very nice and soft spoken. trying to find their place in both the night, and the coterie. (little does she know, they already have a place, and the nouns accept her and love them regardless of her insecurities) brick - gangrel - transfem [she/her] - garbage girl!!!! eats dirt!!!!! dumb as rocks but we like her like that. always quick to make a joke in dire situations. really wants to stake someone someday but toothpick keeps beating her to it. not pictured is her inevitably smeared makeup and grease and dirt stains from working on her motorcycle. anyways if u read all that i owe u my life. im so proud of these lil gay people in my head.
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best-element-poll · 20 days
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(The 2 most voted elements will advance onto round 2)
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No transition metals (nasty little freaks)
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readyfreddy · 1 year
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Most Fuckable Elements round 1
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By: FIRE
Published: Aug 17, 2023
• The California Community Colleges’ regulations force professors to espouse controversial views about “diversity, equity, and inclusion.”  • FIRE filed a lawsuit after the chancellor’s office ignored our warning that the regulations violated professors’ First Amendment rights. • The regulations dictate how professors teach the approximately 1.8 million students enrolled in California community colleges.
FRESNO, Aug. 17, 2023 — Today, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression filed a lawsuit on behalf of six California community college professors to halt new, systemwide regulations forcing professors to espouse and teach politicized conceptions of “diversity, equity, and inclusion.”
Each of the professors teach at one of three Fresno-area community colleges within the State Center Community College District. Under the new regulations, all of the more-than-54,000 professors who teach in the California Community Colleges system must incorporate “anti-racist” viewpoints into classroom teaching. 
The regulations explicitly require professors to pledge allegiance to contested ideological viewpoints. Professors must “acknowledge” that “cultural and social identities are diverse, fluid, and intersectional,” and they must develop “knowledge of the intersectionality of social identities and the multiple axes of oppression that people from different racial, ethnic, and other minoritized groups face.” Faculty performance and tenure will be evaluated based on professors’ commitment to and promotion of the government’s viewpoints.
“I’m a professor of chemistry. How am I supposed to incorporate DEI into my classroom instruction?” asked Reedley College professor Bill Blanken. “What’s the ‘anti-racist’ perspective on the atomic mass of boron?”
“These regulations are a totalitarian triple-whammy,” said FIRE attorney Daniel Ortner. “The government is forcing professors to teach and preach a politicized viewpoint they do not share, imposing incomprehensible guidelines, and threatening to punish professors when they cross an arbitrary, indiscernible line.”
DEI requirements are controversial within academia. FIRE’s research indicates that half of professors believe mandatory diversity statements violate academic freedom. The sole mention of academic freedom in California’s model framework frames it an inconvenience, warning professors not to “‘weaponize’ academic freedom” to “inflict curricular trauma on our students.”
“Hearing uncomfortable ideas is not ‘curricular trauma,’ and teaching all sides of an issue is not ‘weaponizing’ academic freedom,” said Loren Palsgaard, a professor of English at Madera Community College and a plaintiff in the suit. “That’s just called ‘education.’”
An official glossary of terms released by the state makes plain that the “anti-racist” views it mandates are highly ideological. Indeed, the definition for “anti-racism” states that “persons that say they are ‘not a racist’ are in denial.” California declares that “color-blindness,” or the belief that “the best way to end prejudice and discrimination is by treating individuals as equally as possible, without regard to race, culture, or ethnicity,” is itself a problem because it “perpetuates existing racial inequities and denies systematic racism.”
Even a professor saying something as benign as “I grade my class based on merit” is suspect under the regulations. “Merit is embedded in the ideology of Whiteness and upholds race-based structural inequality,” the glossary claims. “Merit protects White privilege under the guise of standards … and as highlighted by anti-affirmative action forces.”
FIRE first expressed concerns with the California regulations when they were proposed in 2022, warning in a public comment that the new rules would “unconstitutionally require faculty to profess allegiance to and to promote a contested set of ideological views.” The response from the chancellor’s office was woefully inadequate, denying that the chancellor or the board of governors could ever violate a professor’s academic freedom. The regulations are now in effect in the State Center Community College District, and FIRE’s clients have already been forced to change their syllabi and teaching materials, lest they face repercussions.
FIRE’s California suit comes almost a year after FIRE filed a lawsuit against Florida’s “Stop WOKE Act” as it applies to college classrooms. In that case, Florida’s legislature, like California Community Colleges, sought to dictate what views public university professors can express when teaching. In November 2022, a federal court granted FIRE’s motion for a preliminary injunction to block enforcement of the Stop WOKE Act, calling it “positively dystopian.” 
“Whether it’s states forcing professors to teach DEI concepts or states forcing them not to teach concepts that lawmakers deem ‘woke,’ the government can’t tell university professors what views they are or aren’t allowed to debate in the classroom,” said FIRE attorney Jessie Appleby. FIRE is representing professors James Druley, David Richardson, Linda de Morales, and Loren Palsgaard of Madera Community College, Bill Blanken of Reedley College, and Michael Stannard of Clovis Community College. The defendants are California Community Colleges Chancellor Sonya Christian, the State Board of Governors, State Center Community College District Chancellor Carole Goldsmith, and the District Board of Trustees.
The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE) is a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization dedicated to defending and sustaining the individual rights of all Americans to free speech and free thought — the most essential qualities of liberty. FIRE recognizes that colleges and universities play a vital role in preserving free thought within a free society. To this end, we place a special emphasis on defending the individual rights of students and faculty members on our nation’s campuses, including freedom of speech, freedom of association, due process, legal equality, religious liberty, and sanctity of conscience.
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Professors must “acknowledge” that “cultural and social identities are diverse, fluid, and intersectional,” and they must develop “knowledge of the intersectionality of social identities and the multiple axes of oppression that people from different racial, ethnic, and other minoritized groups face.”
This is cult language. It's meaningless drivel to anyone who does not subscribe to the ideology it comes from. It's like someone talking about "sin" when you don't believe in Abrahamism: "You must teach students their fallen nature, their sin and their salvation through Jesus Christ." It obligates academics and students to subscribe to intersectional feminism as an institutional mandate, and is therefore both compelled speech and compelled thought.
And it has nothing to do with anything. Least of all science.
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upthewitchypunx · 12 days
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garden rambling
This week i learned that beets and potatoes need boron. Apparently you just mix up borax and water. We planted potatoes in 3 potato grow bags, put the cannabis plants we grew from seed in our back area you can't really see from the street, I reordered composting worms for our bin i didn't take care of a few years ago.
I got the cabbages and friends bed full with cabbage, kale, broccoli, onions, chard, celery, and lettuce. I also thinned out carrots, beets, and radishes. I replanted some beans and pea because something was eating them. I also planted some more salsify in the bare spots.
I made Ian B hop our fence and rescue a foxglove that escaped our yard. I knew the neighbor was going to weed it, so I put it in a pot until I can figure out where to put it. I also potted up a comfrey that was growing in a strange place. I'm realizing my columbines, salvia, penstemon, bee balm, and lupines are all gone from the freeze and moving the hummingbird garden to make the new veggie beds. This means I can buy more plants so i don't get yelled at by hummingbirds, right? I also got some free Crocosmia Lucifer corms from our local Buy Nothing group. I'm excited to have those as they are orange and Ian B says I tend to only put purple flowers in the garden.
The three beds for summer veg are still waiting to be filled. I think tomorrow might be the day to finally put the tomatoes in the ground. I started the second round of herbs and some summer veg line corn and squash seeds on the 1 shelf free for plants in our grow set up, the other three shelves are stuffed with our absurd amount of peppers and our dining room window is a jungle of things waiting to go outside.
I got a few annuals last week and planted seeds in a bunch of containers on the porch. It currently smells like lilac and alyssum out there and I love it.
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fandomloreblog · 1 year
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UMBRA Headcanons/Fun Facts
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You want to discover more of the chaotic/psychopathic gang of prisoner overseers? Here’s some fun facts/lore that I made, but feel free to comment your own head canons/ideas!
🔥 Boron 🔥
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- Boron’s natural hair color is unknown. No one knows if he dyes it or uses product, but it always ends up looking like that. Most of the staff thinks that his natural hair color was either white or black. Bismuth thinks it red, while Manganese assumes it’s blonde.
- He’s an ex-soldier who was discharged after being injured during duty. He claims that nothing bad ever happened to him during his tours, but he’s jumpy around loud noises and explosions.
- Boron’s sexuality is unknown/questioning. He claims he’s straight, but he’s never so much as asked a girl out, and even then, he’s in a ridiculous headlock with the leader, or “The King”, of The Neon Gang, a group on the outskirts of Vandelay Island, which has resulted in more than a few comments of his true reason for going out there every so often.
- He is stubborn and energetic to a fault. Like a dog chasing a bone, he will never stop until his goal is completed. This fault of his often resorts to him taking some extreme measures, and evening doing tasks himself just to make sure he’s getting closer to his goals.
- He is not pure of heart and dumb of ass. This man has put all of his stat points into strength, speed, and endurance and said screw all to everything else. This is one of the main reasons why he is considered the weakest (in terms of all around stats) Overseer in UMBRA.
- If he had to have had a favorite Overseer, it would be Arsenic. He enjoy’s their shy nature, as it counteracts between his overzealous personality and it keeps a  bit of a damper on his energy.
- His least favorite coworker? Cobalt. 100%. The two get along like cats and water. They despise eachother.
- His favorite color is red, unsurprisingly. He loves spicy foods and always enjoys a good action movie. Track and exercise are his favorite hobbies, and most of his free time is spent at the gym.
- He absolutely LOATHES sweets and candies. Anything with sugar, he will actively avoid it. No one seems to know the reason why he hates it so much, but he does.
“Well… This should be fun! Bring it on, Vandelay!”
🧪 Arsenic 🧪
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- Arsenic is the Medical Overseer of UMBRA, which is ironic considering they never even passed high school. They dropped out their senior year for unknown reasons.
- They have terrible insomnia and anxiety, which results in them hardly sleeping and living off of energy drinks. Their anxiety manifests in when they chew at their lips. It used to be their nails, but after getting their cybernetic arms, they switched to their lips.
- They are extremely touch sensitive. Even so much as brushing up against them will send them into a frantic fit. The only physical contact they have is when they initiate it, and even then it’s simple hand shakes and half-hugs. If they had an s/o, they would maybe upgrade to cuddles with them.
- Arsenic has a very depressed outlook on society. They’ve accepted that they’ll always fail, and have just stoped caring. If everything’s destined to fail, why even try? Perfection is unobtainable, so why even try?
- Arsenic is nonbinary, and falls under the “gay” category in their own terms. They were always attracted to men, so they use the term loosely, as they don’t apply to the normal definition of it. They use they/them pronouns.
- Arsenic is extremely smart, yet physically weak. They often prefer to stay indoors and have their lackeys do the work, simply because of how feeble they are. Despite this, they are considered one of the more valuable Overseers in UMBRA.
- Arsenic loves comfort foods, such as popcorn and frozen meals. They don’t enjoy the fancy and expensive luxuries of food, and always enjoy something simple and delicious.
- Their favorite color is grey, actually. They do like green, but it’s not their favorite color. Their favorite hobbies include movie watching and reading, as they are brain-stimulating activities with little movement.
- Surprisingly, Arsenic is the closet to Boron. They are always close by, doing research and overseeing the medical and intake wings of UMBRA. No one knows how the two get along so well, but they do, despite having nothing in common?
- Arsenic’s least favorite Overseer? Bismuth by a long shot. She’s energetic and chaotic, even more so than Boron. Besides, they always get chills whenever the light shines on them just right to show her bone implants. Creepy.
“Oh… So we’re supposed to fight…? Whatever…”
🪨 Cobalt 🪨
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- Cobalt is a middle child, with an older brother and a younger sister. However, she doesn’t talk to either of them, as they are “troublemaking delinquents who don’t obey the law”.
- She is actually Roquefort’s niece, to which she takes great displeasure in when someone brings it up. She hates being related to someone so “criminal”, at least in her eyes.
- Cobalt was born deaf and without legs. She used a wheelchair to get around most of her life, and is fluent in sign language. She received her cybernetics for her ears and legs once she left home and joined UMBRA.
- Cobalt was the only Overseer promoted from inside the company. All other Overseers were outside hires, while Cobalt joined as a basic officer, and was later promoted to the Security Overseer position.
- Her brother is known as “The King”, a leader of a delinquent/resistance group in the outskirts of Vandelay Island. She despises him for his unlawful actions, and the mere mention of him can send her into a rage.
- Cobalt identifies as a lesbian. She never experienced romantic attraction towards men, and was often disgusted by them in her adult life. She doesn’t truly care for romantic partnerships at the moment, but perhaps one day.
- Cobalt loves sweet and bitter foods. She enjoys the clash of flavors, and thinks it gives the dish an interesting kick.
- Her favorite color is Blue, Cobalt Blue. She enjoys keeping fit by running laps, and also enjoys puzzles and neatness. Most of her free time is either spent on extra work or doing a small hobby.
- Cobalt’s favorite Overseer would be Chrome. Logistical and methodic, the two get along well as their main focus is to follow UMBRA’s plans and work together. Their no nonsense personalities allow them to mesh well.
- Least favorite? Boron. In her own words, “That moron constantly taunts me about my brother while attempting to capture him, and expects me to like him?”
“Such outrageous violation of the rules…! Just who do you think you are?!”
💻 Manganese 💻
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- Manganese! The only female Overseer who wears makeup. She doesn’t throw a fit over it, but does wonder why Cobalt doesn’t put much effort into their attire. It doesn’t take much to spice up an outfit!
- She is the only Overseer with cybernetic implants on her face. Her eyes were replaced with robotic ones to connect into data and the internet remotely. Is it a bit extreme? Maybe, but it’s easier than constantly going to a computer.
- Manganese is the Media Overseer, meaning she is in charge of what outside information goes into UMBRA, and what info the public gets. She quite enjoys her job, and is an expert on learning people’s secrets.
- A (not so) fun hobby of hers is to hack into her coworkers desktops to find their search history. She has plenty of dirt on her coworkers, and due to her media and computer knowledge, she can easily cover her tracks.
- Manganese is smart and strong, making her one of the more challenging Overseers in UMBRA. She has connections everywhere, and she is more than willing to pull some favors if it means the job is done.
- Manganese is transgender, male to female. She doesn’t really mention her life pre-transition, but she doesn’t exactly hide it. She has more than a few stories she likes to share when the time comes. As for romantic interests, she doesn’t have a preference. She is open to whoever is willing to stumble into her arms.
- Her favorite color is a tie between Cyan and White. She loves how well the colors go together, and has made it her signature office look. As for hobbies, she enjoys reading and writing, and always loves a good gossip night. She plans to become a writer once she retries from UMBRA.
- Favorite Overseer in her opinion is Boron. He’s quirky and idiotic, making him a perfect lackey for her to use in any quick schemes she has. Besides, even if he wasn’t dumb, she has enough dirt on him to blackmail him for the rest of his life.
- Least favorite coworker for her is Chrome. Even Arsenic can have their funny moments from time to time, but for Chrome, it is all work and no play. The two cannot seem to agree, with Chrome always opting for the logical choice, while Manganese has to take into account human emotion.
“Ah, so you wish to challenge me? Heh, very well. Let’s see what makes you tick.”
👻 Bismuth 👻
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- Bismuth is the youngest out of the Overseers, both in terms of career and age. She’s often mistaken for a child, but is actually 20 years old. She claims her short stature was due to a bone deficiency.
- Bismuth’s bone deficiency has actually resulted in them getting a full cybernetic replacement. Her entire skeletal system has been replaced with Military Grade Implants. Under the right lighting, you can see them through her skin,
- She is a psycho, to put it nicely. Even compared next to Boron, she has a fascination with what makes things work, and always enjoys watching prisoners reactions to her punishments. This has resulted in even the Warden being terrified of her.
- Despite her dark interests, Bismuth is the Overseer for the Reform programs, tasked with making sure those in UMBRA’s doors will be reformed when they leave, no matter what. Many offenders don’t return, simply because of how terrified they are if her.
- Bismuth’s undercut changes colors, depending on her mood. No one knows exactly how it happens or why, but it does that. Arsenic claims it’s a chemical imbalance in her hair and scalp that causes the changes. Who knows.
- Compared to all of the Overseers, Bismuth is second in terms of strength and power. Extremely agile and strong, along with her small stature, she can easily become a terrifying threat if not taken care of.
- Bismuth enjoys most childlike hobbies. She enjoys video-games and youtube, and often spends most of her free time relaxing in a bean bag, playing the newest games online, and all around acting like a teen. Her favorite color is rainbow.
- Bismuth’s favorite foods are candy and sweets. She enjoys lots of sugar, and says it keeps her active. Most of her coworkers wonder if she’s just a robot that needs sugar as fuel. Wouldn’t be so surprising for them.
- Bismuth doesn’t particularly care about pronouns. She mainly uses She/Her, but doesn’t care if she gets called a guy or nonbinary. However, she lacks any sexual or romantic attraction, labeling herself as AroAce. She doesn’t care much for that sort of stuff, and prefers to have friends.
- Favorite Overseer? Chrome, surprisingly. They enjoy their bland nature, and think it’s funny when they snap at her, trying to calm her down. She views him as a sort of surrogate father figure, never actually having parents in her life.
- Least favorite Overseer? Arsenic. She thinks that they’re dull and boring, and don’t do anything apart from read boring books. She doesn’t understand how someone could be so bland all of the time.
“GHAHAHAHA! Cmon, cmon! Let’s get WILD! Hahah!”
⚜️ Chrome ⚜️
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- Chrome. The DILF of UMBRA. He actually has an ex-wife and children, but he never talks to them anymore, he’s too busy with work and UMBRA to deal with that anymore. Perhaps later in life he could reconnect, but not now.
- Chrome runs the Logistics wing for UMBRA. He’s the one who keeps track of everything, from money to security flaws. Everything and everyone is meticulously documented and recorded, constantly added to tables of data within his office.
- He doesn’t like the robotic workers. In fact, he hates robots. He thinks they’re dull and unfeeling, just hunks of steel made for menial tasks. A majority of his staff are human due to this, but even still, there has been some pushback on this.
- Chrome is the most secretive of the bunch, yet the most powerful. With all of the data and statistics he has recorded, he can easily solve issues whenever they arise. Does not matter where or when, he can easily make sure it is dealt with.
- Chrome is both of the oldest career wise and age wise when it comes to the UMBRA overseers. He was actually around when UMBRA was first founded, and joined later as an Overseer, and stuck around after the first warden left, being replaced by the newest warden.
- His favorite foods are savory and rich. Steak, exotic foods, expensive cuisine, you name it. He always enjoys the finer things in life, and food is one of the things he refuses to cut back on.
- His favorite color is black, and his hobbies are often made fun of for being “old”. He enjoys chess and logic puzzles, and always likes to have a nice glass of whiskey while reading by the fireplace. The finer things in life always appealed to him.
- Chrome identifies as a Bisexual, often experimenting with both male and female partners before marrying his wife. Now that he’s divorced however, he does plan to experiment once again before settling down again.
- Favorite Overseer? He doesn’t have one. All of them are equally capable in their own ways, despite how chaotic some of them may be.
- Least favorite? Boron. He’s a feral loose canon that Chrome cannot figure out why they still have a job.
“Is this truly the best you can do? Pathetic. I don’t get how an idiotic loser like you though you could challenge me.”
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transgender-rex · 1 year
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Today's rock is: Pink Tourmaline!
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According to the calendar: "Tourmaline is a crystalline boron silicate mineral group. The wide range of compositions and color zoning within crystals causes more colors and color combinations. The pink color of tourmalines is the result of prolonged atural irradiation, mined chiefly in Brazil and many parts of Africa."
Day 10/25
Taglist: @awkwardlyqueer @the-clockwork-three @thefaceofthegirlinthewater @ladydragonkiller @bifrosted-flakes @sagetheunwise @kazs-scheming-face @nighttriumphant17 @sashadealltheknives @inspectorlyfra @alfredo-zauce @corvuscoronecornix ask to be added or removed!!
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dreamnight0808 · 2 years
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Al(Aluminum)
No.13
Group 13(Boron group)
She | Her
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winniesnowdrops · 2 years
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{ Day 11/14 } @alfalfaaarya
did the following:
-hydrocarbons
-general principles of oraginc chem (half of it)
-group 13 (boron family)
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Came across an observation: the lunar cycle influences my behaviour sm?? Fortnightly I have this weird urge to do something crazy. Tonight's moon is the strawberry supermoon; when it's closest to earth and probably why I kept feeling so entropic. Just so cool how nature wield its power over us.
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best-element-poll · 4 months
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ONGOING POLLS: ROUND 2
umm. figuring this out. coming soon
PAST POLLS
round 1 poll 1: group 1 elements, winners: Lithium, Potassium
round 1 poll 2: group 2 elements, winners: Radium, Calcium
round 1 poll 3: period 4 transition metals, winners: Copper, Cobalt, Manganese
round 1 poll 4: period 5 transition metals, winners: Palladium, Cadmium, Silver
round 1 poll 5: period 6 transition metals, winners: Mercury, Iridium, Tunsten, Gold (tie)
round 1 poll 6: period 7 d-block elements, winners: Copernicium, Seaborgium, Roentgenium, Bohrium (tie)
round 1 poll 7: group 13 elements, winners: Aluminum, Boron
round 1 poll 8: group 14 elements, winners: Carbon, Silicon
round 1 poll 9: group 15 elements, winners: Bismuth, Arsenic
round 1 poll 10: group 16 elements, winners: Oxygen, Sulfur
round 1 poll 11: group 17 elements, winners: Iodine, Bromine
round 1 poll 12: group 18 elements (noble gases), winners: Neon, Xenon
INFO
asks are open. feel free to submit anything including propaganda for upcoming elements you'd like to see included under the polls. feel free to rb with anything too.
here's the structure of the poll. feel free to suggest better too.
if any 2 tie I'll just put both in idrgaf
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