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#forbidden fruits
gothamcitycentral · 2 months
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Hazbin establishes very strong parallels between Charlie and Vaggie’s relationship and Lucifer and Lilith’s.
Charlie being as to Lucifer, the fantastical dreamer discouraged and rejected by the world around them.
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Vaggie being as to Lilith, someone who failed their assigned role and were driven out of ‘paradise’ (Heaven/Eden) by someone they should have been able to trust (Lute/Adam).
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In their most vulnerable moments Lucifer and Charlie find them, love blossoming between each pair because they defied the norm, Lucifer and Lilith being rebellious in a world of order and Charlie and Vaggie being kind in a world of cruelty.
Though at the same time, Charlie is to Lilith while Vaggie is to Lucifer.
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“This kingdom was something she really cared about. Something I care about.”
Charlie acknowledges she is the last thread of the hope her mother gave to Hell all those thousands of years ago. The responsibility to her home Charlie puts on her shoulders is born from the love Lilith had for it. She is directly following in her mother’s footsteps, truly believing her people deserve better and that they’re worth fighting for.
Then there is their partners, the fallen angels who don’t share their love’s connection to Hell. Lucifer saw sinners as horrible people who wasted the gift he went to Hell for giving them. Vaggie always kept everyone not named Charlie a spear’s distance away, treating them as people she tolerated but never trusted for a moment. Despite what Heaven had done, had done to them, they were still thinking like angels.
(Though, these mentalities would change throughout the first season, Lucifer choosing to support Charlie no matter what and Vaggie accepting the hotel crew as a part of the in-group which she wishes to protect)
Lucifer’s distaste for his people, not fighting alongside Lilith’s rebellion and instead agreeing to the exterminations, seems to be why they eventually split, despite the love they held for each other. In extreme contrast, Vaggie always supporting Charlie is what keeps them together despite bumps in their relationship. Vaggie always chose to believe in and support Charlie and that means the world and more to Charlie, who spent so much of her life unsupported.
The show also juxtaposes Lucifer’s parental love for Charlie with Vaggie’s romantic love for her, most prominently with Vaggie starting the reprise of More Than Anything to express her love as Lucifer did originally.
(They’re also just. Charlie and Lilith being these tall powerful demon women with Vaggie and Lucifer being their short and tiny fallen angel loves)
What becomes interesting is during the finale when Lucifer (very strongly, very tastefully) implies he ate out Adam’s first wife before fucking his second.
This seems to based on sexual interpretations of original sin. However, in Hazbin we are very much lead to believe the Fruit of Knowledge is a literal apple. Given that Lilith is said to have also offered the apple to Eve, I doubt the implication is that Luci had any sort of one night stand with Eve. Rather, I think Lilith, Eve, and him were once, or attempted to be, in a romantic relationship.
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(Considering Eve was made to be Adam’s lesser and Lucifer and Lilith shared the gift of free will with her specifically, I do wonder if Eve had fallen in love with the two, but was unable to leave Adam. The Fruit of Knowledge being given to her so she would be able to be free and join their relationship, but ultimately resulted in their separation as Lucifer and Lilith were casted into Hell)
Which certainly has implications about the future of Charlie and Vaggie’s relationship.
I think the show has actually set very compelling parallels between Eve and Emily.
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Much as Lucifer shared forbidden knowledge with Eve, it’s Charlie’s actions that revealed the hidden truth of Heaven’s exterminations. There’s the specific ‘free will’ which Eve was gifted, which fits with Charlie’s influence giving Emily the ‘free will’ to defy Sera and act against Heaven.
I’ve also talked before about the possibility Emily was brought into existence to fill Lucifer’s place in Heaven. Considering the protective relationship Sera has with Emily, along with her looks of genuine horror at her acting against Heaven, it brings to mind the idea Sera has been fearful that Emily would fall just as Lucifer did for Emily’s entire existence, and as such raised her to be more likely to never stray from Heaven as Lucifer did. Which could add to why Sera hid Heaven’s genocide from her despite Emily being a high ranking seraphim; she couldn’t risk giving Emily a reason to rebel.
Which would be a very striking analogue between the two. Both living replacements for the fallen, born into someone else’s shadow to take their place, intended to be the more docile and proper version of Lilith and Lucifer, less likely to stray from the roles they were created to fill. Though, of course, we know Eve fell to temptation and maybe-probably-definitely left or tried to leave Adam, and that Emily is walking the edge.
(Emily having ties to both Lucifer and Eve seems relevant with how Charlie and Vaggie each have parallels to Lucifer and Lilith. Perhaps in her fall, we’ll see Emily ‘thrive in Hell’ just as Lilith did, and similarities between Charlie and Vaggie to Eve will pop up the more we learn about her?)
What’s also interesting is that Eve ‘falling into temptation’ (choosing Lucifer and Lilith over her preordained role) is what separated her from them. However, if Emily were to choose supporting Charlie’s dream over her place in Heaven, then her falling would be what brought her to Charlie and Vaggie. Thereby their situation acts as a foil to the previous generation’s.
And Emily supporting Charlie is very relevant. In More Than Anything we get the exchange of:
“I’ll support your dream whatever lies in store.”
“And who could ask for more?”
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Because Charlie can’t think of anything more she could ask. Charlie’s idea of love and being loved is so heavily based on support and being supported. It’s a part of the conflict in Hell’s Greatest Dad, that Lucifer is being genuine and Alastor manipulative, but Alastor is the one actually providing Charlie with what she asks of him, which Lucifer never has. Charlie shows her love for Hell by believing in them, that they can improve, they deserve safety, and they have worth. It’s why Vaggie’s love is so important to Charlie, because for a long time, she was the only one believing in her.
And what does Emily do?
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“I don’t know-”
“Yeah, let’s give him a chance!”
She supports Charlie! She believes and trusts her and argues on her behalf. She’s the only angel in Heaven to have faith in Charlie’s dream. Having Emily in the position of a fallen angel, falling right into Charlie’s arms, Charlie caring for her and nursing her back to health, with her being someone who very deeply believes in her, would be the same conditions that made Charlie fall in love with Vaggie three years ago.
Then for Vaggie, Emily also has a lot of the textbook traits that she loves Charlie for. The overexcited-ness, the care she has for others, even the way she doesn’t pull rank. And what she hasn’t expressed, that being seeing value in Vaggie where she herself does not, it feels natural that Emily would express that in the way Charlie does upon learning Vaggie’s history. We’ve seen her sense of justice and her horror at Heaven’s actions, so her deeply sympathizing with Vaggie would be entirely expected, and would be a very easy way for Vaggie to catch feelings for Emily.
However, there is this:
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Which suggests the direction of a jealous Vaggie. I think that works, at least initially, with Vaggie feeling insecure in her relationship with Charlie after Emily falling and being cared for by Charlie in the way she was all that time ago. Those feelings heavily changing however, at the realization that Emily is crushing on her just as much as she is Charlie and how deeply relatable to her Emily’s circumstances and trauma would be.
Then on Emily’s side, not only would she have very much been thinking and focusing on Charlie prior to her fall, once she does, she lands in a very emotionally volatile situation where Charlie and Vaggie are supporting her so much and caring for her so deeply. It makes sense that this would translate to her developing feelings for the both of them.
(Now, this is a bit less definitive, but with Emily’s design, the long hair and dress that covers every inch of her short of her fingers, and Heaven being a stand in for the imperialist church, I do read the coming-of-age story the show has set up for her to be one of a conservative christian raised girl striking out of the doctrine she grew up in and finding community in the people her home had demonized, or at least an allegory for such. So having her develop romantic feelings for two ‘vile and blasphemous’ women in a very non-monogamous way would be very thematically relevant I think)
I would say this all works great as an analogue to Lucifer, Lilith, and Eve. Eve being in the unfortunate situation of Adam’s wife but finding comfort in Lucifer and Lilith and falling for the both of them as Emily would as a fallen angel being comforted by Charlie and Vaggie. Lucifer seeing Lilith reflected in Eve and caring for and helping her as he did before being parallel to Charlie helping Emily as she did Vaggie. Lilith initially feeling negativity towards the woman made to replace her bond so closely with her new love, only to realize Eve is falling for her just as much as she is for Lucifer and empathizing with Eve’s situation so deeply, just like Vaggie.
Then, there’s Adam and Lute. I already mentioned that they play parallel with forcing Lilith and Vaggie out of their respective paradises. Their dynamics are built on Adam and Lute punishing, and their domination over, Lilith and Vaggie, because they need to know their place: beneath them. (There’s also the interpretation of that Lute had or has romantic feelings for Vaggie, which is certainly relevant) The show is being very clear with Lute being Adam’s successor I feel, with her taking on his position as leader of the exorcists following his death.
Then, her line: “Your brat is threatening the very foundation of Heaven.” Personally, that makes me think of a sediment Adam would feel towards Lucifer. That’s he is the source of every problem, that he stole his wives (ignoring that Lilith left him before even meeting Luci), and that he destroyed paradise, Eden. Now that Vaggie and Lute’s conflict has seemingly come to a close, I think the show will be shifting to a Lute vs Charlie conflict, much as Adam shifted from Lilith to his hatred for Lucifer.
Now, if the show wants to push a Adam-Eve dynamic with Lute and Emily, what I could imagine is Lute protecting onto Emily in a very one sided way, where she thinks Charlie has ‘corrupted’ the seraphim (threatening heaven’s foundation) and she must personally ‘save’ her, which would very much align with how Adam would feel towards Lucifer’s influence on Eve.
Now, we can tell that Lucifer, Lilith, and Eve’s relationship Did Not pan out particularly well. So I think much like how Charlie and Vaggie have succeeded where Lilith and Lucifer failed, Charlie, Vaggie, and Emily is going to be the successful foil to their attempted relationship. Then for Lute, I think it becomes a question of: does she accept the olive branch Adam did not, does she eventually understand that she is doing wrong, does she accept mercy, or does she continue down Adam’s path, digging her own grave as he did; except that unlike Adam, there won’t be anyone to cry for her?
And y’know, the angel and 3 immortal humans versus the demon/half immortal human and 3 angels serves as a nice counter.
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nerdasaurus1200 · 3 months
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Lucifer: Charlie, dear, are there any rooms available for Eve and your mother?
Charlie: Erm, actually…we’re all booked out tonight.
Lilith: Charlotte Evelynn Morningstar if you’re trying to trick your father and I-
Charlie: It’s not a trick, look! *shows her the key wall* See?! Every room is taken!
Eve: Ugh, great.
Lucifer: Ah hell, fuck it, my room is big enough, put them down in mine.
Charlie: Will do, Dad.
Eve: I swear if either of you try anything I’m strangling you with vines.
Lilith: Kinky 😈
Lucifer: Ladies, ladies. I know today was a little…rough..but there’s no reason we can’t be civilized adults about sleeping in the same space again for a while. Agreed?
*Both Lilith and Eve nod*
Vaggie: *watching them leave* Charlie I thought we had one more room available.
Charlie: *pulls the last room key out of her jacket* We did, but I asked Rosie to reserve it.
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you unlock a new level of interpretation for Lucilith once you start understanding it as the monsterfucker/lover relationship it is, the human-nonhuman dynamics
Angels have worship built into their bones, cannot prioritize themselves for the life of them, they are not functional if they cannot devote themselves mind and being to another, (reciting prayers is a stim)
Sera and Emily do not seem to enjoy being in charge at all and will invoke some idea of a higher power whenever they have to make a decision, people pleasers first both of them
Just, like, Look at him gesturing Lucifer's everything
I'm using Vaggie and Lute as further evidence, even if we arent sure if exorcists are heavenborn or not
I don't think Lilith could handle an equal relationship with another human soul after her experience with Adam, she'd be so hyper avoidant of ever being taken advantage of or side lined but she wouldn't want a partner complicit but resentful or broken into submission
But a creature made for Servitude before anything else, is most fulfilled when submitting to the will of another, just straight up biologically incapable of having underlying personal motivations, now thats something she can trust to share her life and kingdom with, her own personal little angel
he needed a God and She could use a message bearer
The point is Lucifer's head is only clear and quiet when Lilith has him on his knees thanks for coming to my ted talk
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urbanlegendiaries · 10 months
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If poison, why delicious?
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superspookyjanelle · 1 year
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STORY UPDATES: The Horror And The Wild is officially posted with the prologue posted as well!
( the horror and the wild was formerly called the forbidden fruit )
link to ao3 here, Wattpad link coming soon!
TAGGING: @witchofinterest @fiercefray @sweetenemyfire @eddysocs @arrthurpendragon @waterloou @villanele @bookstorebunny @roseygirl203 @valdrinors
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gir1coffin · 2 years
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madamserpentessa · 10 months
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“The fruit was never an apple”
Max Svabinsky, (1873-1962)
“In Paradise” circa 1918
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nerdasaurus1200 · 4 months
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Some Forbidden Fruits headcanons cause I love them
It actually started with Eve and Lilith. They quickly developed a very deep connection because of their shared experiences and began just talking and taking moonlit walks together
Eventually Eve began talking walks with just Lucifer too, because they wanted to get to know each other better. As the second male she’d ever met, Eve was really curious about how different Luci was from Adam
Eve is the one who came up with the nickname “LuLu” for Lucifer.
Lucifer and Lilith came up with “Evie” for Eve in the middle of a jinx
Lucifer likes to joke about how he has two apples of his eye
Back in Eden, Eve would make drawings in the dirt of Lucifer and Lilith while they posed
Both Lilith and Eve can sing, but their voices are very different. Lilith’s is loud and powerful, while Eve’s is softer and sweeter. Lucifer finds them both utterly enchanting
In hell, Eve has tons and tons of sketchbooks full of doodles of Lucifer and Lilith
Not even Charlie knows, but Lucifer once made a rubber duck that looks like Eve. He doesn’t look at it much cause seeing it makes him cry
Lilith can never look at a sunset without being reminded of Eve. Sunsets have always been Eve’s favorite
The apple was actually an attempt at giving Eve enough free will to leave Adam for good to she could run away with Lucifer and Lilith and the three of them could be happy together
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I do believe that Lilith is Good
But
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she still has Master manipulator Gothic Queen of Night vibes, she's playing 4D chess but no one else will get on her level and its really getting to her
She tried for human solidarity back in Eden 'if we play our cards right we can uncover Heaven's Ultimate secret plan' and was met with a resounding "uh Why?" "Have you tried asking them?" from Adam and Eve
She really wants to find pride in her kin but they make it so difficult
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urbanlegendiaries · 11 months
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youtube
It’s here! Episode two, forbidden fruits. Sometimes the things you want most are the things you can’t have…
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huang-er-jiejie · 10 months
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i. i just realised something about the kiss.
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the way when aziraphale puts both of his hands on crowley's back, you can see them kinda shift so aziraphale isn't leaning. he held onto crowley for stability, and leaned in. pushed closer to him. he leaned forward. anyone ever says he didn't want the kiss im going to hunt you down because HE HELD CLOSE!!! HE KISSED BACK!!!!
EDIT: also im like WELL aware he kissed back i was even when i first watched it like its not a big revelation, its just that SOME people☠️ on TIKTOK☠️ KEEP SAYING HE WAS DISGUSTED BY THE KISS???? like i swear some people are watching a different show entirely
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superspookyjanelle · 1 year
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OC AESTHETIC: rosamund wittebane
❝ I'm gonna be so pissed off if we die. ❞
TAGGING: @witchofinterest @fiercefray @sweetenemyfire @eddysocs @arrthurpendragon @waterloou @villanele @bookstorebunny @roseygirl203 @valdrinors
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gleafer · 2 months
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New mini-comic on Patreon! Here’s part 1 of Apple of My Eye
Eeeee! BLEP
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shu-porang-porang · 2 months
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I just found this and I feel like a Victorian man seeing the sinful ankle of a lady 😳
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mister-a-z-fell · 10 months
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nerdasaurus1200 · 4 months
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Granted it’s not a lot of people but a part of me doesn’t quite understand why some folks are worried that Lucifer cheated on Lilith with Eve. Especially when Luci pretty much went “Hey, I have two hands. And I use both of them to hold the hands of both of Adam’s wives. Stole Lilith with one hand and Eve with the other; eat your heart out 😎”
I dunno about you but that to me implies they are/were in a poly trio
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