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denzartriste · 4 months

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I think the reason i don't like most modern or even old-but-still-modern-in-the-grand-scheme-of-things retellings of Persephone and Hades is because most paint Demeter as the bad guy.

The original myth (Homeric Hymn to Demeter) was very clear that, in all this, Zeus was the bad guy. When saying how Gaia was luring Persephone, the next sentence is "All according to the plans of Zeus." (My translation for the myth is this btw, i feel that's important to say because translations can be finicky--which I'm also gonna get to.)

I also think its important to say how the kidnapping happened, so I'm gonna paste it (from the translation I'm reading) :

"And the earth, full of roads leading every which way, opened up under her.

It happened on the Plain of Nysa. There it was that the Lord who receives many guests made his lunge.

He was riding on a chariot drawn by immortal horses. The son of Kronos. The one known by many names.

He seized her against her will, put her on his golden chariot,

And drove away as she wept."

It's a kidnapping, its messed up, but i also want to point out how it isnt a violent assault or rape like many people think it is--either is bad, but one is a deliberate lie meant to make us view Hades much worse and a lie i think actively takes away from this story.

Side tangent, real quick. Hades is the god of the underworld, and so we instinctively think "Oh, yeah, like the devil. He's like the greek Satan." because we think underworld=hell=Satan=hades=hades is bad then. Hades isnt good, because none of the greek gods are good, because these gods arent good and we think they are because christianity, the religion most people are taught about before they can develop their own opinions, tells us that gods are good.

My point there is redundant and repetitive, but its important for this. People think Hades is bad, and when they learn there are gods worse than him (Zeus, mostly they just learn about Zeus) they assume that that means Hades ISNT bad, because people want a good guy to root for and Hades seems like an underdog that never did anything wrong. It's also a common myth (myth as is false and not true, not myth as in greek myth) that in the actual original story Persephone just walks into the underworld/Hades doesn't kidnap her. That's not true, it comes from a 1978 story titled "Lost Goddesses of Early Greece: A Collection of Pre-Hellienic Myths" by Charlene Spretnak to make greek mythology more palable to her young daughter, the changes to all the story was just to do that--and then that led to a whole domino effect of people believing the unsourced thing. Im not gonna stand here and say that hades isnt one of the better gods morally speaking, but i am gonna stand here and say that the competition doesn't pose a high bar and people are not seeing enough nuance in him. Also him being better morally is because he doesnt have many stories--even regarding the myth with him and Persephone he isnt that important past the kidnapping. Fun fact, Persephone actually existed before Hades did. So i think that should be kept in mind when putting Hades on a pedestal, he doesn't have as much material to be bad in, so we see him as not as bad.

People are allowed to view Hades are this good guy or an evil devil, whatever, i will be a bit upset about it but people have the right to have opinions--but people also cant pretend those opinions are educated and well sourced. That's were i get actually upset and think its not just a matter of opinion but it turns into just misinformation.

Tangent over, back to the point.

Demeter hears her daughter and "She sped off like a bird, soaring over land and sea, looking and looking."

She spends a total of nine days wandering all over the earth looking for information on what happened to her daughter, and i just want to mention that as Persephone is being taken she does think about her Demeter, and she has hope to see her again. (line 35 in the myth)

On the tenth day Hecate comes to Demeter and tells her that she heard the abduction, but didn't see who did it. Both of them go off to Helios and ask him which mortal or god did this.

And here again the myth places blame on Zeus, Helios tells Demeter:

"You shall know the answer, for I greatly respect you and feel sorry for you as you grieve over your child, the one with the delicate ankles. No one else among all the immortals is responsible [aitios] except the cloud-gatherer Zeus himself, who gave her to Hādēs as his beautiful wife."

(I think Hades should get slack for this aswell, he was the one who took her and all that. I want to be clear that i dont personally agree 100 precent with how little blame Hades gets in the myth.)

There's also mention about how Demeter is grieving for her child, Persephone, which is quite obvious--this story is about Demeter and Persephone so much more than it is about Hades and Persephone.

Here im mainly recaping the myth as im reading through it, and its long because the myth is kinda long but i dont feel as if i have much to say about it past the occasional thing here and there until we see persephone again, so ill make the text bold and big to the important part again if you want to skip.

So then Helios is basically like Well y'know you could have a worst guy for your kid to marry, Hades is fine all in all surely :D and then leaves

Demeter than shuns the company of the gods in her grief and anger, visiting mortal cities for a long time.

She's sad again, and im sure theres more about this i could say but right now i have a headache give me grace.

Demeter is approached by four sister (they are unaware she is Demeter because she looks like an old woman right now) and say: "“Who are you, and where are you from, old woman, old among old humans?

Why has your path taken you far away from the polis? Why have you not drawn near to the palace?

There, throughout the shaded chambers, are women

who are as old as you are, and younger ones too,

who would welcome you in word and in deed.”"

Demeter wishes them "kharis" which means ‘I wish you pleasure and happiness from our relationship, starting now’, and tells them her name is "Dōsō", the name suggest someone is a 'giver of gifts'. She says she was given her name by her mother. Demeter says she was taken by pirates (much like how her Persephone was taken by Hades, Demeter is grieving still.) and that she "fled her arrogant captors". (I think this is a clear parellel to what happened to Persephone, and how Demeter wishes she could also 'flee her captor'.)

She then says: "what I want is for you to name for me a house to go to, the house of someone, man or woman, who has phila children to be taken care of.10" The little 10 there is a footnote, the footnote being: "The textual transmission is garbled here, and my translation of this line is tentative"

Next part is long, im tired, it has a lot of footnotes and one is really long and i love footnotes but i also dont wanna read a huge paragraph of them. Theres mention of so many rituals i dont really understand. I am tired, forgive me.

A lot of footnotes, i love footnotes but im going to cry if there is another footnote.

Okay okay, im done being dramatic, but i dont want to spend time deep diving so the basic of what happens next is Demeter tries to make this baby shes taking care of immortal, (surely theres something to unpack there) but she fails because someone sees her burning this baby in fire and obvious they dont assume Ah, this is demeter helping my baby. No. They assume, This crazy woman is burning my baby my baby is on fire my baby is going to die And in some myths demeter leaves the baby in the fire and kills it after that, in the one im reading she doesnt do that and just puts it on the floor. Baby dies either way because she makes a promise on the river of styx that the baby's gonna die eventually and she says a lot and there are a lot of footnotes. Theres a bit more to it, she tells them to build a temple i think to appease her? Listen this post has gotten so long im not gonna say more than i need for this im bad at reading sometimes.

Important part again here!

Demeter then makes the world pretty unlivable, enternal winter basically--people are hungry, dying, whole thing. Zeus notices because hes not getting sacrafices of meat anymore, so hes like this is bad and sends out Iris. Demeter doesnt budge because she wants Persephone back, and they arent giving her persephone back.

Then: "the Father sent out all the other blessed and immortal gods. They came one by one,

they kept calling out to her, offering many beautiful gifts, all sorts of tīmai that she could choose for herself if she joined the company of the immortal gods.

But no one could persuade her in her thinking or in her intention [noēma], angry as she was in her thūmos, and she harshly said no to their words.

She said that she would never go to fragrant Olympus, that she would never send up the harvest of the earth, until she saw with her own eyes her daughter,"

After that unsuccesful thing Zeus sends Hermes "so that he may persuade Hādēs, with gentle words, that he allow holy Persephone to leave the misty realms of darkness

and be brought up to the light in order to join the daimones [the gods in Olympus], so that her mother may

see her with her own eyes and then let go of her anger."

So basically Zeus told Hades it was all cool if he kidnapped Persephone and now they're all in the finding out stage of fuck around.

We see Persephone and Hades for the first time since the adbuction, and Persephone is still very much missing her mother--she is sad, she is not happy, and she is still that way after very a long time (The time Demeter spent with humans is described to be "a long time" and the time in which Demeter has been causing hunger/death, not letting humans farm basically, went on for a year before Zeus paid mind to it.)

After hearing what Hermes has to say Hades, with whats basically described as a 'knowing' smile, tells Persephone to go to her mother, and Persephone is really happy about that. Obviously.

Here's the part where Hades gives Persephone the pomegranate seeds. Heres the quote so i dont have to vaguely recap: "But he [Hādēs] gave her, stealthily, the honey-sweet berry of the pomegranate to eat, peering around him. He did not want her to stay for all time over there, at the side of her honorable mother, the one with the dark robe."

Persephone doesnt willingly take the pomegranate seeds herself, thats something i have to say because sometimes people think she did when she didnt. Persephone isnt given a choice in this, she has to stay for one third of the year with Hades.

Sidenote--this hymm was only preserved on one thing, no original copies, and seemingly the part that explains why Hades giving her those seeds binds to the underworld for a third of the year (in some stories its a diffrent fraction, but the point stays the same.) is teared. And this is like one of the worst parts to not have but i digress. Cons of mythology is that its old and we rarely have the full stories on anything perfectly preserved.

Persephone says to her mom that Hades: "put into my hand the berry of the pomegranate, that honey-sweet food, and he compelled me by biē to eat of it."

I didnt know what biē meant but it seemed important to context so i looked it up and it means "Force/Violence." So, again, hades forced her to eat the seeds--But also i still dont know too much what i means because Hades was described as giving her the seeds stealthily, so i dont know why that would be there if he would fully just force her to eat them? But maybe force could also mean that he forced her to stay in the underworld for a third of the year, i dont know.

Persephone also was with friends when she was lured away and taken, she spents multiple lines saying the names of all of them, and a lot of retellings ignore the fact she has friends or a life outside of this thing that happened to her which is why i wanted to point it out. Retellings of this story typically put themselves on a pedastal compared to the original myth despite the fact they strip Persephone of her entire self that doesnt have to do with Hades.

I think its honestly purely misogyny, they also love to infantilize her, which is weird. From what i can tell the only times in the myth Persephone is referred to as a child is when Demeter is referred to as a mother. Persephone is Demeter's child, so when its relevant they say it. We dont know how old Persephone was when she was kidnapped because it doesnt say how old she is. Because honestly her age isnt that important--yeah, sure, i'd like to know what it is, but only because it would be further information. Gods are usually just old to a point it doesnt matter unless it's specified.

The whole point of this started with me wanting to focus more on Demeter and Persephone so im gonna get back to focusing on them and how retellings treat their relationship.

Retellings ignore any positive aspect of their relationship, which is stupid. They portray the two as clashing, despite the fact that they are describes as like-minded. It feels like cheap forced drama and like they want an easy villain. The actual bad guy in the story is mostly Zeus(and Hades in my opinion, but that's suprisingly more nuanced.) but if retellings make Zeus the bad guy, then they have to say why hes the bad guy. He's the bad guy because he told Hades he could kidnap persephone, but retelling dont like mentioning anything Hades can do thats wrong so obviously that cant happen, right? So making Demeter a villain surves multiple purposes. It takes away blame/complexity to Hades's actions, and in the same breath makes them moral. If Persephone's mom is sooo awful then clearly Hades saved her! Obviously he's good, obviously he's just misunderstood, the kidnapping isnt even a kidnapping if you think about it!!! Demeter being this awful unreadable mother in retellings only serves to make Hades more 'good' and, while you'd assume it adds some depth to persephone it just doesnt. Retellings never make her conflicted in a way that matters, it never makes her miss her mom or her friends--because she doesnt have friends in retellings.

Hades and Persephone's story is complex. It's nuanced in a way i cant even begin to dissect--Arguably they are one of the better relationship between gods, if not one of the best period. They have stories past the Homeric Hymm of Demeter--They have stories past the abduction.

And there's no point in butchering a story when there are myths in greek mythology that are forbidden romance + overbearing mother. If thats something you want, Eros and Psyche are right there. I havent read the myth myself, and my knowledge of them is second hand, but if you want an antagonist mother who doesn't like their relationship look no further. Ancient greece wasnt good to woman, i bet there are more stories with evil moms. Search for them. Leave Demeter out of this, and for the love of all thing stop spreading lies about this myth. There is genuinly no Pre-Homeric versions of it. Stop.

Anyways yeah this is long, have a nice day anyone who read all this. Also this is a good source for the myth and Persephone as a whole if you want to know more

#This is 2810 words #i couldve been writing fanfic. I couldve been drawing. Instead i was doing THIS #greek mythology #persephone #demeter #hades #homeric hymm to demeter #tw rape mention #tw kidnapping #I love footnotes and this hymm made me not like footnotes anymore. I have never heard more talk about rituals while understanding none of i

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

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Shout out to that time in the preboot universe, when Lilith showed up to Donna’s wedding to the red-headed man she’d once prophesied Donna would marry and who would die horribly and thus is the reason Donna broke up with Roy originally, thinking the prophecy was about him, (its a long story, just go with it).....

.....and so then here’s Lilith just popping up at the Wedding of Doom she forewarned against, after being out of touch for ages, but she’s flying solo with no plus one and thus no sign of her caveman boyfriend Gnaark (its a long story, just go with it) and when all the other Titans were like hey wtf where’s Gnaark she was just like oh something terrible happened there but I don’t want to get into it now, its a wedding, cheers, because Lilith just does that, when she’s done talking she’s done talking lmao.....

....and then this winged angel named Azrael started popping up all the time and the other Titans are like wtf Lilith, is this dude stalking you, and she just casually waves them off and is like oh yeah, he’s been doing that for ages, he wants me to be his ‘mate’ or whatever, its this whole thing. Don’t worry about it though, its no big deal.’ Because again, Lilith’s just like that.

And then when Azrael keeps showing up Lilith starts glowing every time he’s near and turning into a combustion engine about to blow, and her teammates are like Lil, once again we are just here begging you to call this a big deal, this dude seems to be turning you into a human glowstick, but Lilith is just like omg stop being so dramatic, that has nothing to do with him even, I’ve been having those little ‘heat attacks’ for like years, and the Titans are like WTF LIL, WHY DID YOU NOT MENTION THIS BEFORE, and she’s just like ‘I forgot to okay, god, get off my ass already’ and she stormed off and dramatically quit the team with a huff and a “AND IM NEVER COMING BACK except for when I totally will cuz I already foresee this apocalypse we’re gonna have to prevent in like two years, so nobody take my room okay, thanks bye, and NO DICK, I DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE UPCOMING APOCALYPSE JEEZ I HAVE OTHER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT RIGHT NOW, I’LL GET TO IT WHEN I GET TO IT'’.....because I mean....Lilith. *shrugs*

And then she came back and joined the team during the Terror of Trigon storyline and she was all dramatic and prophesizing left and right except lol it wasn’t really Lil as she was possessed by a bajillion Azarath spirits who were like, hey we’re gonna hijack you to cleanse Raven of evil, sorry not sorry, but don’t worry, we’ll tidy up after ourselves before we leave’....

And then she got depossessed and Azrael starting popping up again and she starting doing her human glowstick thing again except this time with actual fire actually burning shit all around her, and Lilith’s like “okay, fine, I’m willing to concede now that this MIGHT be an issue,” and everyone’s like GEE YOU THINK???

And her ‘heat attacks’ were now big and noticeable enough that they eventually got the attention of Lilith’s birth mother, cuz Lilith had been adopted and found that out and started searching for her birth parents and answers about her powers and where she came from when she was like, thirteen (its a long story, just go with it), and so Lilith’s flame on moments finally caught her birth mother’s attention and she showed up and was like surprise, oh hey and also I’m the Greek Titan of the sun, who escaped from Tartarus awhile back and came up with this whole plan to get back at Zeus and the rest of those turds by making a secret weapon baby - that’s you hon, so proud of you - and yeah your dad was just this rich dude who had a company I wanted to take over, I just kinda incinerated him once I had you and didn’t need him anymore, sorry but its not a big loss he was kinda dull, you wouldn’t have liked him anyway, but also, then this random nurse kidnapped you and derailed my master plan of using a toddler Titan to topple the Olympians, but now I’ve found you and we can get right back to that, and that’s what you missed on Glee!’

Cue the rest of the Titans being like......ummm, we have some questions and also some concerns, but Lilith’s just like huh, so what you’re saying is I’m a divine celestial being? Huh, yeah that tracks. Okay, I believe you! But also I don’t like your plan and I think you kinda suck so I’m gonna like....not do that and instead help the gods defeat you again sorry not sorry but I mean yeah, I’m just not feeling it here, I don’t think this mother/daughter thing is gonna work out on account of the you sucking part.

So then that happened and then Zeus was like, hey we’re down a demigod, how would you like to be a goddess? And Lilith’s like yeah, that sounds good, I’m not busy right now. And the rest of the Titans are like umm, Lilith? The team? We do occasionally save the world and protect people and stuff? And she’s just like oh relax, you’ll be fine without me and I’ll be back in time to help out with that alien invasion in a couple years....and Dick’s like wait what, but Lilith’s already gone and getting her demigoddess on. Because, y’know. Its Lilith. She has her priorities figured out.

And then post-Crisis she eventually rejoins the team as the masked and mysterious figure Omen, who wouldn’t reveal her secret identity, because like, she’s Lilith, and she decided hey I’m just not gonna let the team know that its me and just like, idk see what happens. No particular reason.

Except then she’s abducted by this villain named Haze and she has to use her powers to summon the original Titans to free her, at which point her identity is revealed and she’s like yeah, surprise, it was me the whole time, and the Fab Five are all like WHAT THE HELL LILITH, and she’s like WHAT, I WAS BORED, LET ME HAVE HOBBIES.....and also at this time she and the Titans found out oh btw, turns out that whole backstory about you being the daughter of that Titan was a lie, we’re not really sure how that works but just FYI, you’re actually just the illegitimate daughter of this super rich tycoon, and also FYI, Haze is actually your half brother who hates you because of something to do with the dad you didn’t even know existed, soooooo....that’s a thing....

And then she goes back to the Titans for awhile, still as Omen but with everyone now knowing its her under the cloak and mask, the jig is up, Lilith’s like ugh, lame, now what am I supposed to do for fun. But then it also turned out that for some reason that was never actually made clear, now she also had telekinetic and illusion casting powers and she was like ooooh now these I can have fun with. Coincidentally, like, half the team decided now would be a good time to take a sabbatical and focus on their own cities.

And THEN she was kidnapped by Vandal Savage, who wanted to make her use her powers to divine the perfect lineup of bad guys to take down the Titans once and for all, and Lilith’s like ‘well shit, you got me, guess I gotta do what you want,’ except of course she purposely chooses villains she foresees the Titans beating, which they do of course, and then they beat Savage, and Lilith is just like, dude, I know I’m the only precog here, but how did you not see this coming, like seriously, what on earth made you think there was gonna be any other way this was gonna go? OMG you’re so stupid, what happened to all the smart villains, ugh even being kidnapped is boring now, lame.

And then she died, and like, never actually came back except as a spirit in one story and a Black Lantern in that Blackest Night event, and that sucked. But oh well.

Anyway, the point is I miss THAT Lilith, the unpredictable, whimsical, always dragging chaos in her wake and not giving a shit because look its not her fault Destiny is like totally obsessed with her....

She was just a guaranteed source of WTF and she did it all with unnecessary flair and drama and she was one hundred percent a primary reason Dick Grayson was destined to have gray hairs by the time he was thirty, but oh well, that was just the price of being friends and teammates with her, because Lilith was just...*sighs* she was just so Lilith.

That’s really the only way to sum her up. A dozen writers took her in a dozen different directions cuz they couldn’t decide what to do with her so she ended up doing everything and being extremely extra about it which really tied it all together and just made it a universal truth that when it comes to Lilith, don’t just expect the unexpected, like....just accept that with her anything is possible and plausible and the most random shit will end up connected to her and you just gotta roll with it, because that’s just how it goes with her.

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mothmoira · 3 years

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ok so I have a new shifting symptom where really weird specific memories pop up in my head about me in my DR. this one is really funny to me so im going to tell it to you all.

(note: I scripted that the prophecy spoke about 8 demigods instead of 7 and I was one of them, and that Leo went to Ogygia and saved calypso but they were always completely platonic)

So this was like three months after the events of HoO, and Camp Half-blood was on the yearly field trip to Olympus. I was reading this book on Greek mythology with Leo while we were on the bus to New York, and I read one page where it was talking about how the Greeks essentially thought that BigDick=Stupid (that's true btw google it), so every statue of the Greek gods portrays them as having small manhoods.

I told Leo, and we couldn't stop laughing. When we got to Olympus Leo dared me to call Zeus a, and I quote, “Small Dick man”. Obviously, I was like “Dude no, I don't want to get smote.” and he said “I’ll give you ten bucks.” and I said “Deal.”

So when we got there, I walked up to Zeus’s throne and said “Lord Zeus, how do you manage to get so many girls to sleep with you when you're such a small dick man?” and I made myself look all innocent.

The ENTIRE Olympian council started laughing, all except for Zeus, obviously. He was this close to blasting me but luckily my BAMF mom Demeter was like “Bitch no, shes my daughter and you KNOW you owe me after what happened with Persephone.” So all I got was that I was forbidden to come to Olympus ever again.

when we were leaving, Leo was laughing and just randomly said “Gods, that was hilarious, I love you.” and I got all blushy and shy because we aren't dating yet and I’m a simp. :)

#reality shifting #camp half blood #leo valdez #greek mythology #percy jackson #heroes of olympus #zeus #demeter

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seduceme-lovestruck-thearcana · 4 years

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This is just a sad fic of Hades and MCs mom. It’s like after her death and during her death so yEAH. JUST TAKE IT @official-alex-cyprin take this mESS that was thought about at 10:30 PM. Btw, Melody is what I headcannon MCs mom as bc I can’t say MCs mom through this entire fic come on.

He knew something bad was going to happen. He just...felt it deep down on that day. And he was right, but for once in his entire life...

He really wished he was wrong.

Zeus had ended H.E.R.A and Hades felt a huge pang in his heart. H.E.R.A was what started his close friendship with Melody. Melody, Heras reincarnation, but she was more than that. She didn’t even know she was, and he didn’t have the heart to tell her. He and Aphrodite had gotten so close to her that they just couldn’t. And so, that’s how it went. Them all being close and just being there for each other. But when Zeus closed down H.E.R.A, Melody didn’t show up to Olympus for awhile. It was kinda strange to Hades, but he wanted to give her time.

He saw her face when he and Aphrodite tried to protect her from Zeus when she was going to lose it on him. She looked betrayed and he just felt guilt. He should’ve done something else, but he didn’t know what to do at the time. However, that guilt eventually turned into sadness when she tried to show up on Olympus. He was working on paperwork, trying to avoid the heaviness in the air. All of a sudden, Persephone, his lovely niece, came running in his office out of breath. “Hades! It’s Melody!” His heart dropped. He rushed down and teleported to Melody’s side immediately.

And he knew it. He didn’t even have to get close. He knew she was dying. He felt it and he hated it. He saw many people around one person, they were all calling for help and some mumbled “oh no...”. His heart raced as he ran over to Melody and pushed people aside. “Hades...” he heard her mumble out. Her voice sounded so weak and hurt. He crouched down and held her in his arms. She let out a little whimper, her wounds making it painful when he just touched her. “Melody, I’m so sorry,” he whispered out. Melody put on a smile as he looked down at her. “The all mighty Hades himself is worrying over a mortal?” She let out a small laugh which ended in a coughing fit, a little bit of blood coming out.

She knew it as well. This was it for her. But Hades couldnt, he couldn’t accept it. “Please, hold on! We’re getting help, please, Melody,” he said as he held her hand, begging for her to not let go. To not leave him and Aphrodite. She let out a few tears, and mumbled that she was sorry. He felt her grip on his hand grow weaker and weaker as seconds passed, and his heart fell deeper and deeper as the seconds passed. “Hades, can you promise me something?” She said as she squeezed his hand with the last energy she had. “Anything,” he whispered to her. “Do not let H.E.R.A close. Do not let it end. Please,” she said, her breath already coming up short. “I-”

A few more tears came out of Melody’s eyes, but then...they stopped. Her breathing, her crying, her pain all stopped. He felt her soul leave and he couldn’t take it. He felt tears build up in his eyes, but he couldn’t cry here. He couldn’t. Her eyes were open as she stared at him, but it wasn’t her anymore. It was a cold body of someone he loved as one of his best friends.

The next few months were filled with silence and pain. Almost everyone on Olympus wept, but no one on Olympus wept as hard as Aphrodite. What made it even painful for her was that she didn’t get to say goodbye like Hades did. And even Hades noticed that little shine in her eyes died the day Melody left everyone. And he had to admit, something in him died as well. But he knew that no one, even against Aphrodite, was feeling as much pain as Melody’s daughter and son. They cried hard and long. Hades saw Melody’s daughter look at Zeus, but he saw hatred. He saw anger in her eyes. He doesnt know why, but he can’t bring himself to ask. He can’t ruin her day (maybe even life) anymore.

She was important to him. He felt like this when Hera died. She was not Hera and he knew that. But he loved her like he loved Hera, and he feels like he failed both of them. But he couldn’t weep, he knew she wouldn’t want that. He promised her he wouldn’t let H.E.R.A end, and damn well he was going to keep it. He was not going to fail his best friend, who died innocently and too young. Who was one of the brightest people in the world, who shined as if she really was a goddess herself.

He tried not to weep, but a few tears were let out as he worked on the paperwork. As he worked on pushing against Zeus, against almost every. Single. Person. In the pantheon. The only other person on his side was Aphrodite. Zeus eventually noticed how passionate Hades was about this, and he agreed to let H.E.R.A continue and let Hades do whatever he wanted with it.

Hades was happy he could let it continue and grew a bit better as the years past, but he couldn’t stop that feeling deep down. That feeling of just going to the underworld, finding Melody’s soul, and bringing her back. He knew he could somehow do it. He knew it was against the rules of all of Olympus, but he couldn’t help it. He wanted her back. He didn’t want to see Aphrodite weep anymore, he didn’t want to see Melody’s children weep and go through so much pain anymore. And he wanted to not go through pain anymore. It wasn’t as big, but the pain was still there. He hated it, but he knew he had to be stronger. And stronger he became.

Then, one day he met Melody’s daughter. The first time he saw her was when Alex was in desperate need of help. Alex was in need because Ares was forcing her to become his hero. He saw her, but it didn’t connect until he looked closer. They looked so similar, they acted similar, their voice was similar, and he just was hit with a wave of emotions. He hid it well and he helped Alex. He knew that he couldn’t let her get hurt either. Melody loved her children and it showed on her face whenever she mentioned them, which was a lot. He may have only promised Melody to save H.E.R.A, but he also promised her, even years after she passed, that he would protect what was close to her. What she loved with all of her heart.

It was a promise that wasn’t heard, but he knows Melody heard him. He knows Melody’s always there, watching over him, Aphrodite, and her children. He may not see her or hear her, but he knows she’s there. It comforts him and he knows it comforts Aphrodite. Melody will always be a part of him, even though he lives forever. It’s something that haunts him. He knows he may never see her again, but he keeps hope. His hope is always alive that maybe, just maybe...

He can see her again one day. He can see that shine in Aphrodites eyes return, the happiness in his soul return. He knew he would probably wait so long, but it would be worth it. He couldn’t bring Hera back, it was something he promised her. Now, he promised Melody something again. That he’d wait, that he wouldn’t forget, and he wouldn’t let anyone else forget either. He promised her all those three things and he intents to keep them, even if the pantheon is against him. He doesn’t care.

He just wants his best friend back.

This makes it seem as in Hades loves MCs mom more than a friend. I didn’t mean for it turn out like that. I just extended Hades short of him and MCs mom. I just made it more emotional and sad in my opinion. This is very long and I hope y’all read through it. It took me around 45 minutes to write. I was not going to sleep until I was dONE. SO YEAH. IM SAD AND CRYING AND GONNA PLAY THE EXTRA OVER AGAIN BC I LOVE THAT SAD SAD CONTENT™️.

#astoria fates kiss #astoria fates kiss hades #afk #my writing #im SAD #AAAAAAH #IM SAD #AND EMOTIONAL #I LOVE HADES AND MCS MOM AND APHRODITE CONTENT #I WISH THERE WAS MORE OF IT #IT’D HELP MY SOUL #I may write an Aphrodite POV as well #Idk #Im just not tired but very sad and emotional yall #Ive been feelin like that all day #and please read this official-alex-cyprin #I need some criticism and see if my writing is good or not #so yEAH #please read thank YOUU LOVE YOUUU

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pryderi · 5 years

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We could be heroes

Gods i missed writing those things, and ill miss it so much when everything is over.

Pry Note : well there arent really authors note on tumblr but i did want to put a disclaimer before i start so yeah. Im on my first year doing a history and classics degree and the things i learned so far about greek religion changed my views on some stuff. I dont have all the knowledge i might be wrong about stuff and feel free to correct me, but this is where my perspective comes from.

"The Muses once taught Hesiod beautiful song

while he was shepherding sheep at the foot of holy Helicon.

The goddesses first spoke this word to me,

the Muses of Olympus, daughters of aegis-bearing Zeus. 25

“Rustic shepherds, worthless reproaches, mere stomachs,

we know how to say many lies like the truth,

and, whenever we wish, we know how to tell the truth.”"

Hesiod - Theogony

I dont know if what im writing here is true but thats the story as i understand it :

At the beggining there were talented people, who invented a story and for the first time wrote it.

The sister invented the story and her character "She in thirds". We all bought this story for thousand of years they all did.

But the sister who told it, the one we call Ananke was also trapped. She lost herself in the story. She looked shocked when Laura revealed her story.

Like the others she was lost in the story and the role she played in it. She was the teller.

She will be a creature of story,a creature - those created by god, or rather by Godhood. Which takes us back to the one we Called " Creature" who was not a creature at all

But a story in herself. The teller created another story for her needs.

And they bought it. We all did. Once again we the readers are part of the THEY. The fans, we believed this story, we belived the great darkness existed and we believed they were gods.

But they no longer believe this story, they are not gods. But will the story still hold when they no longer believe it? Does it matter?Dont we have a part in holding it together as long as we believe, as long as the fans believe they are gods... im counting on Cass to show them otherwise but who knows. Its hard to stop believing in something as the song say.

The greeks didnt have a word for Believe. They didnt Believe in thier gods, thats not how they saw them they acknowledged them - "Nomisdein" -to acknowlege.

We no longer believe in the story, we know the truth. But theres still The matter of the fact those people - Humans - can do stuff others can't. We can acknowledge thier uniqueness and talent.

The greeks didnt worship just gods, but Heroes as well. Whether they were prominent mythology characters. Or important charcters in the past of the philia.They were Human. Those heroes were worshipped in a much more local and small religous construct .* i would say a small fandom? A character thats important to a certain group of people.

And well I guess they Can be Heroes. They are humans, but they are also amazing.

Isnt it ironic that the one character that takes after bowie doesnt fit this plot. Eleanor doesnt want to be a hero. She want to be Lucifer. Shes creating a a story of her own -one thats not around gods but around Lucifer. A character that might not be by her own making but its her. Its the parallel to the "She in Thirds".

She Belives -in her self, in a story, to simply put it? Hubris.

They all did, they all believed they were better. And Eleanor wont live, the First to die and possibly the last as well. Hubris is a bitch and shell take her down.

*i really struggled for words here.

P.S i have a couple essay- ish like this post kinda thing about the nature of pantheon. Hoprfully ill get to it next week, or you know never will see.

Btw wasnt sure where to bring it up but i still have to think on how persephone used to be the She in Thirds

#wicdiv #the wicked and the divine #wicdiv spoilers #long post #not sure why im appolgizing but my grammar is shit so oops

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cruddyborderlandstheories · 5 years

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holy shit okay i was working on my Angel post and I got sucked into the mythology as you do when doing stuff like this, I’ve made 4 separate drafts since then but I can’t keep my mouth shut because guys, I know we’re all focused on the Calypsos, and how Calypso is the child of Atlas, and all that fun stuff

BUT

What if, in the grand scheme of things, Tyreen is Demeter, Troy is Demophon, and Persephone the mystery girl. please, I have wikipedia quotes for all of this. I personally am not an actual believer of this theory, but it was really fun to write, so here you go.

OKAY

Let’s start with Tyreen and Demeter. Yeah, she’s shown us that her power is like... Phasesuck or whatever, where she drains the life force out of people (and Siren powers, apparently), we also see in the art on the wall of the HBC that her and Troy are bringing food (in boxes) to the cultists.

So Demeter is “the goddess of the grain, agriculture, harvest, growth, and nourishment, who presided over grains and the fertility of the earth. Her cult titles include Sito (Σιτώ), "she of the Grain", as the giver of food or grain”. It seems like Demeter is the exact opposite of what we know Tyreen as- right now she steals the life force and strength from people, meanwhile Demeter would nurture them and help them grow and get stronger. In addition: “Though Demeter is often described simply as the goddess of the harvest, she presided also over the sacred law, and the cycle of life and death.” yeah. yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Bonus, I did a lot of research on Cybele a while ago while I was batshit crazy, and GUESS WHAT

“Demeter was often considered to be the same figure as the Anatolian goddess Cybele”

For Cybele: “Her cults most often were funded privately, rather than by the polis. Her ‘vivid and forceful character’ and association with the wild set her apart from the Olympian gods”. Now I don’t know exactly what the Olympian gods are in the borderlands verse. My first instinct was the corporations? But two of those are named after titans and the rest clearly aren’t greek. So I got nothing.

In addition, Demeter created a cult called “the Mysteries which give the initiates higher hopes in this life and the afterlife”. Sound familiar? Yeah, the Great Vault in BL3 that’s referenced by the Cultists while they’re dying. their exact words are “The Great Vault beckons”. To add to that, the Calypsos are stated as giving their cultists something to believe in so they can believe in themselves. They give them ‘higher hopes in this life’. Quote straight from the Danny Homan interview: “People need something to believe in and they need people to believe in them and that’s kind of what the Calypsos have provided. They’ve kind of gone ‘oh bandits, everyone calls you animals, everyone calls you trash... but we see there’s something, there’s something in you, there’s something we can elevate your murder to. Murder in our name’.”

So why do I think this matches up with Ty? Because I don’t think her power is solely taking power from others. I think she can turn around and distribute it to other things.

Moving on.

This coming bit is mainly why I think Demophon is Troy. Let’s take a looksie:

Weird beginning, but things start to make sense soon, I promise: “While Demeter was searching for her daughter Persephone, having taken the form of an old woman called Doso, she received a hospitable welcome from Celeus, the King of Eleusis in Attica. He asked her to nurse Demophon his son by Metanira.”

“As a gift to Celeus, because of his hospitality, Demeter planned to make Demophon a god, by anointing and coating him with ambrosia... making him immortal by burning his mortal spirit away in the family hearth every night.”

Sadly, she doesn’t succeed in making him immortal and Demophon dies because she was interrupted in her ritual.

Why do I think this is tied to Troy? Because we know Typhon Deleon found something important. We know De Leon is the name of the legendary dude in our world who found the Fountain of Youth - the key to immortality. It’s also been confirmed that Troy can’t survive without Tyreen helping him (tending to him like Demeter does Demophon). It would make sense that they are trying to figure out a way to immortalize Troy (and, yeah, he probably does end up dying. There’s no other reason to mention he’s sick...) We also are all guessing that Troy’s tattoos have appeared by Ty giving him Lilith’s powers. and what is Lilith’s main element? Fire.

Since we’re on the topic, let’s talk about Demophon’s brother, Triptolemus. He was considered one of the first priests of the Mysteries and one of his rules was “Honor your Parents”. Sound familiar? Yeah, “Honor the Father” that’s on some of the CoV propaganda posters. To explain: “He flew across the land on a chariot drawn by dragons... his mission of educating the whole of Greece in the art of agriculture. Triptolemus was equally associated with the bestowal of hope for the afterlife associated with the expansion of the Eleusinian Mysteries”. We know now that the ‘art of agriculture’ is Demeter’s domain, and we have likened this to Tyreen’s powers. So, likely, Triptolemus is the priest we see on the cover art. Walking around, chosen by Tyreen, teaching people about the Twin Gods and the cult ‘Children of the Vault’.

Now this is where I get a little stretchy. Because we know nothing of Mystery Girl on the cover.

Persephone. “Plutarch identifies Persephone with the season of spring, and Cicero calls her the seed of the fruits of the fields. In the Eleusinian Mysteries, her return from the underworld each spring is a symbol of immortality”.

Now I talk about Zeus a bunch in my mythology masterpost that i have yet to post cause i'm always adding to it, and basically I think he’s a representative of the Eridians themselves. Some sort of leader or smth? idk

“Zeus, it is said, permitted Hades to abduct her... Demeter searched for her all over the earth with Hecate's torches. In most versions, [Demeter] forbids the earth to produce, or she neglects the earth and in the depth of her despair she causes nothing to grow. Helios, the sun, who sees everything, eventually told Demeter what had happened and at length she discovered the place of her abode. Finally, Zeus, pressed by the cries of the hungry people and by the other deities who also heard their anguish, forced Hades to return Persephone. Hades indeed complied with the request, but first he tricked her, giving her some pomegranate seeds to eat. Persephone was released by Hermes, who had been sent to retrieve her, but because she had tasted food in the underworld, she was obliged to spend a third of each year there”.

now this is 100% unfounded bullshit im spewing here, but maybe this is why we have yet to actually see Mystery Girl, like, AT ALL.

We know Tyreen wants to get stronger, she wants to absorb the powers of the Vault Monsters. but why? Just to rule over the galaxy? I mean, sure, why not, but she’s pretty much already getting there just with her cult.

Instead, you know what’d be cool? If she needed all those powers to fight whatever/whoever fucked with mystery girl. If she knew that opening all those Vaults was going to lead to something terrible and didn’t care because it was bad for the Eridians, or whatever that took her sister (?). Like, what if they actually were triplets (Tyreen being the first sister), but the reason Mystery Girl looks so young on the MoM is because she’s been missing since that age? Because they tried to make her immortal like they’re doing for Troy? If they’re all siblings, it’s possible they all have the same sickness. Tyreen can always heal herself because of her Siren powers, but what about Troy? The mystery girl? They’d need someone/something else to heal them. I’m sure Ty can do it for one of them, but both? They’d probably gone looking for a way to heal her, maybe they opened a Vault at some point? (maybe the red vault shown in all the wall art?) And Mystery Girl went missing because of it or smth. idk, im just rambling. i was gonna post my Angel post today but I got toooooootally sidetracked. might still do it if i have the energy.

This is what my tabs are looking like right now btw lmao

#borderlands #borderlands 3 #bl3 #the calypso twins #i don't actually believe this theory #but it was fun to write

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