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46ten · 6 days

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What did the Hamiltons usually do in the summers? Did they take vacations? EH used to travel to Albany with the children but after 1792 she did not leave AH alone again. Did she continue traveling to Albany but taking AH with her, or did they have other plans for the summer?

way too long DNR summary: they didn't really take vacations in the summer, or at other times of the year. At no time did Eliza, in particular, go and visit her parents on some regular schedule.

I think AH spent more time with his wife's parents in Albany during their married life than she did! AH is more frequently going up there because he has to be at court (NY Supreme Court in session in Jan, Apr, July, and Oct, and Court of Errors in session right after, as far as I can recall) or a matter he's dealing with is in arbitration, or some such - she often doesn't go with him, though.

I think Eliza was a lot more independent and assertive and knew how she wanted things than is acknowledged - I don't think these were traits that suddenly appeared after AH died. She grew up without her father around for chunks of time (why don't we ever discuss that bit of bonding about somewhat absent fathers that she and AH could have had), and then in the chaos of the AmRev, while still a teenager, she's trusted at times to run the households while her father is away general-ing and/or having to do political stuff elsewhere, and her mother is managing their other properties -her parents were likely in Saratoga and she was managing things at the Pastures right before she got married in late fall 1780. Once she finally got to establish her own household, I don't think she loved going back to stay with them and having to fall in line with how her parents wanted the household to work - that's entirely my speculation though. Maybe she secretly hated them, maybe she had some trauma/stress around being in Albany and Saratoga from her childhood, when that was considered the frontier, or from her war experiences, maybe she just didn't want to have to manage the packing and moving of servants that was also necessary or have the funds to make it sensible, maybe the arrangements she had with her servants made it difficult to agree to travel (there was a shortage of "good labor" in the cities), maybe she enjoyed her thriving social life elsewhere and hated being back in Albany and hearing "the Dutch bell," as Angelica C. jokes about.

To the actual question! If you want a detailed report, @runawayforthesummer is probably the best person to ask, as she developed a timeline of the locations of all the various family members based not only on publicly available documents but on Schuyler family letters and other documents that required on the ground research. Below is just my rough summary of what I can remember - parts may be wrong, but I think it's generally okay.

Summer of 1781: he goes off with the military, ultimately to VA

Summer of 1782: still on her parents' property in Albany with baby Philip

Summer of 1783: the same, though he's traveling a bit more.

Summer of 1784: living in NYC, she stays there while he briefly travels (she gives birth to Angelica H. in September)

Summers of 1785-88: mostly in NYC (with two more bio kids added to the family, and Fanny added in 1787), although now we know she went to Philadelphia in June 1787 around the time AH gave a speech at the Constitutional Convention. (It had been assumed she spent the summer in NYC, as AH was known to be back there briefly in July, and James A. H. was born in April 1788, so easy to deduce that she must have been in NYC, too.)

Point to note here and for the next 15 years or so: just because the Hamiltons weren't traveling back and forth to Albany doesn't mean that family members from upstate NY were stuck in place. Peggy and hubby Stephen van Rensselaer stay with them, Eliza's brother is sent to live with them by Philip S because he thinks their good example will rub off on his wayward son, Eliza's youngest sisters Cornelia and Kitty/Caty (little Catharine b 1781) also live with them at various times, and Philip S. and Catharine are fairly frequently visiting when Phil S. isn't too sick to travel (and since Philip S spends two years as a U.S. Sen, they're also sometimes living in the same city as the Hamiltons anyway).

Summer of 1789: this is an interesting year, because Angelica Church returns back to NY for the first time in nearly six years; she just barely misses the inauguration in April. And then Angelica actually spends most of her time in upstate NY - contra one particular Hamilton biographer who alleges (based on nothing) that Eliza spent most of her time that year in Albany while AH and Angelica were having a torrid affair in NYC. The interesting part? If Eliza went up to Albany at all while Angelica was there, she didn't spend tons of time there. Phiiip S. requests in May that everyone goes up as he wants his whole family together- someone else probably knows whether they actually did. Eliza and the kids also may have gone to Albany in Nov 1789 after Angelica has leftl; AH is too busy with work to go.

Summer of 1790: she and the kids go to Albany. But she just goes up in September and is likely back within three weeks - the plan was that AH was also going to join them, but then he's too busy with work.

Summer of 1791: back in Albany for Eliza and the kids, this time to get away from hot Philadelphia, but actually only gone the last week of July to beginning of September, and he makes a brief trip to NJ during that time, too. But she and AH also took a trip "to the country" together for two weeks in May, sans kids - he doesn't even send any letters during that time.

December of 1791: Philip H. starts boarding school - I point this out not only because both his parents escorted him to boarding school (taking a mini-trip themselves), but because the patterns of the older boys' schooling - usually in school at least through July - from here on out would have prevented summer trekking to Albany, anyway.

Summer of 1792: the Hamiltons remain in Philadelphia, where Eliza gives birth to John Church H in August.

Summer of 1793: YELLOW FEVER REACHES PHILADELPHIA! They stay in Philadelphia but rent a house outside the city. The children are eventually sent up to Albany, and Eliza and AH end up there, too, for a couple of months after Edward Stevens nurses them back for health. EH and AH return to Philadelphia together, and then AH probably had to send a threatening letter to his father-in-law to return his kids. (Philip S. had written that AH was clearly still too sick to have proper judgment on whether the kids could return.)

Point to note here: just because AH and EH are in their usual residential spot doesn't mean that all of their kids are there with them. At various times over the years, and in varying combinations, the kids get brought up by a relative or left by their parents in Albany - Eliza's married siblings are in upstate NY so they have first cousins and a ton of other relatives; their grandparents or Aunt Peggy take over their tutoring and other instruction, etc. They get returned when another relative is traveling back to Philly/NYC.

Summer of 1794: it doesn't seem like anyone planned to go to Albany, but JCH gets sick and Eliza is pregnant, and they try a brief excursion away from hot Philly but JCH doesn't get better, so in late July, AH escorts both of them (likely with James A. H.) up to Albany and then rushes back down and Angelica H stays with him, while Phil and Alex eventually go back to school in Trenton. And then they have an awful couple of months, because although JCH recovers, AH leaves to deal with the "insurrection" in October and pretty much all the Hamilton kids get sick while he's away. Eliza has to go get the oldest boys from school. AH, who was always recommending medical treatments and played a big part in nursing the family when anyone got sick isn't around (the old thing of him intending to become a medical doctor when he left St. Croix). It largely all falls to Eliza and her parents and maybe a few siblings come down to help her out, and then she gets sick too (or is just so exhausted) - Edward Stevens helps take care of her - and she loses the baby. AH gets home and sends his resignation letter to GW and accepts the guilt of being the reason Eliza was ill.

Late winter/early spring 1795: the above led to the longest "vacation" they probably every took - after his resignation is official on Jan 31, the Hamiltons leave Philly on Feb 17 and travel to upstate NY via NYC, arriving in March, and stay there all the way until June. They make some mini excursions, but it looks like a deliberate downtime after an exhausting 6 years and super rough eight months. It also gives AH time to evaluate how poor (relative to others in their social class) they are due to his time in the admin. And then they settle into life back in NYC and AH's return to his law practice (and interference in any number of other political happenings).

Summer of 1795: YELLOW FEVER REACHES NYC! And they stay in the city, to Philip S's great panic for this and every subsequent NYC summer prior to the Grange. AH has Jay Treaty stuff, running the Washington admin from a distance, and establishing his law office to deal with. And they host Talleyrand. They also now have four (?) non-bio kids living with them.

Summer of 1796: Still in the city! The older boys are in school; AH goes up in October.

Summer of 1797: Yep, still there! The Churches return from Europe in May (and subsequently, Angelica C. spends way more time in Albany than it seems Eliza ever does). They have the whole Callendar/Reynolds/Monroe debacle to spice things up; Eliza gives birth to William in August. Most interesting - Philip S. was very ill in April 1797 - they thought he was going to die. Eliza doesn't go to Albany to visit him immediately, even though AH is there! At least Cornelia is with her, so they were bad daughters together; they may have gone briefly after he recovered. AH is absent again when Phil H. gets extremely sick in the fall.

Summer of 1798: Ah, Eliza finally goes back to Albany again without AH! And she's super unhappy about it or she and AH had some big fight before she left, based on AH's and Angelica C's letters to her. She takes baby William with her - Angelica H. might already be up there - but the older boys stay in the city with AH, and Angelica C., Peggy, AND Cornelia are in the city keeping an eye on him anyway (and likely helping with the kids). Eliza doesn't even stay three weeks before going back home (even though it seems AH thought she might stay away longer, maybe in retaliation or something). They rent a house outside the city with the Churches to get away from the yellow fever outbreak.

1798 is also the year when AH starts to complain A LOT in his letters about having to travel and any separations - he always expressed sadness about it and his anxiety increased the longer they were apart, but in this year and onwards it really carries a "this sucks and I hate it and I cannot do it much longer, I need the comfort of my family all the time" tone - even Angelica C. notes his unhappiness about separations and that anything that seems to affect Eliza or the children in his absence really drags him down.

Summer of 1799: still in NYC! Eliza's also pregnant and gives birth to a real Eliza in Nov.

And nothing much changed for the remaining summers, except adding the Grange as a place they could go, which was entirely the point . AH is in Albany for business/court and stays longer to be there when Peggy dies in 1801; Eliza does not go up. Philip H's death in Nov 1801 leads to an invitation from Phil S that they come to visit, which it seems that they do in January 1802 and then return to NY - Eliza is pregnant and there are frequent concerns that she's going to lose that baby (whether because she's actually ill or so grief-stricken) and AH does not respond to condolences until March, but Lil Phil is born healthy in June 1802. Eliza goes up solo after her mother dies in spring 1803 to comfort her father but doesn't spend much time there. The Hamiltons go into a pattern, esp in the warmer months, of Eliza staying up at the Grange with Angelica H. and the youngest children and AH staying in the city with the oldest boys during the week and coming up to the Grange on the weekends, a separation that Eliza would describe as a "sacrifice" they made so that their kids would always have a parent with them. (Beyond first Philip H's death, there were concerns that NYC was becoming increasingly dangerous.)

Apologies for errors - I am largely working on memory and have not confirmed all details above, but there are better sources for that.

#alexander hamilton #elizabeth schuyler hamilton #philip schuyler #vacations

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nordleuchten · 1 year

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Did Lafayette meet the Schuyler sisters during his 1777-1778 time in New York?

Hello Anon,

it appears so. La Fayette was in Albany to plan an Invasion into Canada, which was later aborted. In this context he met General Schuyler for the first time in person whom he previously only knew by reputation.

He wrote in his Memoirs:

He also became well acquainted with Schuyler, Gates’s predecessor. Disgraced like St. Clair, Schuyler still served the cause and was very useful because of his superior intellect, his presence in that part of the country, and the confidence that the state of New York, of which he is a citizen, had in him. (…) A little later, Schuyler and Duane, commissioners for Indian affairs, scheduled a general assembly at Johnstown on the Mohawk River. Recalling the Indians’ former attachment to the French, M. de Lafayette went there by sled to show himself to these nations that the English had tried to raise against him.

Idzerda Stanley J. et al., editors, Lafayette in the Age of the American Revolution: Selected Letters and Papers, 1776–1790, Volume 1, December 7, 1776–March 30, 1778, Cornell University Press, 1977, p. 246-247.

While La Fayette never anywhere explicitly states that he met the Generals children, it is very safe to assume that Schuyler invited the prominent Marquis over for dinner of the like. Most of the children still lived at home but Angelica Schuyler, the oldest of the sisters, had recently married John Baker Church (June 23, 1777). General Schuyler was not at all happy with her choice of husband and since the couple had eloped, I do not think that she was often at home during this time.

La Fayette also met Elizabeth Schuyler, later Elizabeth Hamilton, during the army’s winter encampment in Morristown in 1779/1780. Eliza was staying with one of her uncles who was a doctor in the army and lived close by. The Marquis was not able to make it to the Hamilton’s wedding, but he always took great interest in Hamilton’s in-laws, often referring to them in letters just like here in a letter from December 9, 1780:

I Beg, my dear hamilton, you will present my Best Respects to your Lady, Miss Schuyller, Miss Peggy and all the family. My Compliments wait on Gel Schuyller. Adieu

“To Alexander Hamilton from Marquis de Lafayette, 9 December 1780,” Founders Online, National Archives, [Original source: The Papers of Alexander Hamilton, vol. 2, 1779–1781, ed. Harold C. Syrett. New York: Columbia University Press, 1961, pp. 518–521.] (01/16/2023)

He also had extensive contact with Angelica Schuyler Church between 1783 and 1785 when the Church’s lived in Paris.

I hope you have/had a lovely day!

#ask me anything #anon #marquis de lafayette #la fayette #french history #american history #american revolution #alexander hamilton #philip schuyler #angelica schuyler church #john baker church #letter #1777 #1778 #1780 #founders online

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iseveryoneherederanged · 2 months

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I finally convinced my mom to watch Hamilton tonight. I was bawling my eyes out during it's quiet uptown and she just looked at me like I was crazy. FREAKING PSYCHOPATH HAD DRY EYES

#hamilton #hamilton musical #lin manuel miranda #daveed diggs #lafayette #thomas jefferson #philip Schuyler #eliza schuyler #it's quiet uptown #stay alive

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dearestcorrespondence · 1 year

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Philip Schuyler to Elizabeth Hamilton, Albany, [May 11, 1802]

Albany May 11th 1802

My Dearly beloved child

yesterday I had the pleasure to receive my Dear Hamiltons letter of the 6th instant replete with good advise, relative to my grandson Philip, whom I now send you perswaded as I am that under your eyes and direction and that of his amiable uncle he will derive all the advantages his mind is susceptible of, he appears and I hope and believe he is docile and good tempered, he received with great satisfaction and expressions of gratitude the kind invitation to reside with your dear children may it be a mean of mutual improvement, and increasing affection.

The Patroon left us yesterday, for Jersey to marry Miss Paterson, we know not the young lady, but hope she will prove him a good wife, I do most sincerely wish he may be happy, he has invariable ___ and continues to evince the warmest affection for ___ and all the family, should they pass thru N York ___ their way hither, it will be well to evince attention ___ distance and reserve until answer no valuable ___ pose(?)._ but might be in general to your nephew the ___ remains of your dear departed sister

___ I write not to the General, under the belief that ___ gone to meet the Cincinnati at Washington. ___ I am advised he intended without

Your dear mama has been indisposed for some days past with a disorder (...) but I thank god now well. I am perfectly recovered from a fit of the gout which seized me the week before last.

The very severe drought we have experienced has so reduced the water in the river, that the cedar post which I expected have not been brought down, they are engaged, and will be sent whenever they arrive.

Your dear mother unites with me in all that love and affection which your unremitted attention and tenderness merit from us, let the General, if he should be still with you, and our dear grand children participate in it.

Adieu my amiable & dearly beloved child may indulgent heaven bestowed its choisest blessings on you & yours is the prayer of your affectionate parents.

Ever yours most tenderly

Ph. Schuyler

Mrs Hamilton

#elizabeth hamilton #elizabeth schuyler #philip schuyler #hamilton correspondence #schuyler correspondence #1802

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echonk3 · 1 year

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me to basically everybody: nO YOU DONT GET IT DEAR THEODOSIA IS HEARTBREAKING BECAUSE THEY BOTH OUTLIVE THEIR CHILDREN AND THEYRE TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY LOVE THEIR CHILDREN AND HOW THEYLL BE AROUND WHEN THEIR FATHERS WERENT AND THAT THEYLL MAKE THE WORLD BETTER FOR THEM AND HOW MUCH THEY LOVE THEM AND THE PARALLELS AND WE HAVE REPEATS OF THEY BLOW US ALL AWAY WHICH WE SEE IN BLOW US ALL AWAY AND THEN PHILIP DIES AND THEN LATER ON WE SEE BURR'S REFUSAL TO LET HIS DAUGHTER BE AN ORPHAN-

#hamilton #dear theodosia #alexander hamilton #aaron burr #philip schuyler

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sonch · 1 year

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they are tryna do the unimaginable (get out of bed in the morning)

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josiah-archer · 1 year

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Archer? Are you alright, lad?

- P. Schuyler

*Nods* I was looking for you.... But the house is really big and I got a little bit lost....

#Asks #Philip Schuyler

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hamilton---admin · 6 months

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#funny #hamilton musical #lol #hamilton #humour #alexander hamilton #broadway #memes #america #hamilton---admin #philip schuyler #anthony ramos #lin manuel miranda #THE DUEL

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myprecious02 · 1 year

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Philip Schuyler as an Hermes kid: I have a sister but I want a little brother.

Hermes: Okay

Hermes: *Have hundreds of kids ☻ *

#say no to this but hermes always says yes #a cabin full of kids #neglected kids #pjo #percy jackson #hamilton #alexander hamilton #hermes #philip schuyler

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rettaroo · 1 year

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Please go appreciate my bf being hilarious

#History #Albany #Philip Schuyler #Hamilton

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yr-obedt-cicero · 1 year

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MY DEARLY BELOVED AND AMIABLE CHILD: How your endearing attentions rivet you continually to my heart. May the loss of one be compensated by another Philip. May his virtues emulate those which graced his brother, and may he be a comfort to parents so tender and who have endeared themselves to theirs.

(source — Philip Schuyler to Elizabeth Hamilton, [August 23, 1802])

I read one biographer claim that General Schuyler was the one to suggest Lil Phil be named after his eldest brother. So I went searching for this quote again and remain unsure wether it's a suggestion, or simply implying that in the previous letter Elizabeth already said so.

Either way, it's funny that General Schuyler was basically like “Yeah I think naming another kid after me is a great idea, I'm totally on board with this.”

#“May the loss of one be compensated by another Philip” so quick to replace him /lh #amrev #american history #elizabeth schuyler #elizabeth hamilton #philip schuyler #philip hamilton ii #history #letters #hamilton kids #hamilton family #hamilchildren #hamilton children #hamilkids #cicero's history lessons

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46ten · 1 year

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AH’s political prospects in 1798; Or, how a white man continually falls upwards

It’s a bit difficult to gauge the real-time reaction and consequences of AH’s late August 1797 publication of the Reynolds Pamphlet. We have newspaper articles, sure, and scattered letters here and there.

But this is even more interesting: Kaminski and Levinson (Levinson is a lawyer and publisher at statutesandstories.com; Kaminski is Founder and Director of the Center for the Study of the American Constitution at UWisc) published a blog post last year confirming that AH’s “secret” (all the discussions were supposed to be secret) plan, delivered on June 18, 1787 at the Constitutional Convention, was leaked and published in early 1798.

Kaminski and Levinson continue:

James Madison’s Convention notes were not published until 1840, after his death as the last surviving member of the Philadelphia Convention. Accordingly, historians have generally assumed that the full text of the Hamilton Plan only became public in 1840 after Madison’s death. As set forth below, recently rediscovered sources prove that the verbatim text of the Hamilton Plan was leaked to the press in January of 1798, during the vitriolic newspaper war of the 1790s.

[From Benjamin Franklin Bache’s Aurora on January 13, 1798]: The following document, which so complete unmasks the political character of the man who has been most instrumental in entailing on the United States those pernicious systems under which they now groan, comes to us thro’ a certain tho’ indirect channel, from a member of the Grand Convention.

...It has recently been discovered that after the Aurora published Hamilton’s Plan several Democratic-Republican newspapers quickly followed suit. In early 1798 the following newspapers republished the Hamilton Plan as a means of “unmasking” and attacking Hamilton’s “political character” as a monarchist:

Greenleaf’s New York Journal, January 17, 1798

The Alexandria Advertiser, January 23, 1798

The Independent Chronicle, January 25, 1798

The Bee, January 31, 1798

The Albany Register, February 2, 1798

The Poughkeepsie Journal, March 13, 1798

Whether Madison personally authorized the leak will require additional scholarship, which will be discussed in the pending book, My Most Ardent Wish: New discoveries and insights into the framing of the Constitution.

In the months to follow Statutesandstories.com and the Center for the Study of the American Constitution invite scholars to join in a deep dive into the Madison, Jefferson and Monroe papers looking for clues as to the reason(s) for releasing the confidential Hamilton Plan. While generations of historians and biographers have written about the growing schism between Madison and Hamilton, as far as can be determined no biographer has cited the leak of the Hamilton Plan in the Aurora on January 13, 1798. Why then? And to what end?

Look at these guys promising me a good time! A lot of interesting work has been published on the blog about the Constitutional Convention, how AH may have been in Philadelphia for more days than usually noted, done more politicking towards the other NY delegates than previously known, and how he may have been more active in the writing of the Constitution than usually attributed (hi Gouverneur Morris), in what they term the Hamilton Authorship Thesis. They also have provided some more information about missing/ previously unknown Hamilton legal cases (I’ll link one here), among other topics.

So even with the Reynolds Pamphlet and the publication of AH’s “monarchist” views, John Jay (then NY Gov) was willing to name Hamilton U.S. Senator from NY in April 1798 - without even asking him if it was okay!

The present delicate State of our public affairs, and the evident Expediency of filling this Vacancy without Delay, induce me without requesting your Permission and waiting for your answer, to determine to send you a Commission to fill that place, by the next Post. I can say nothing that will not occur to You. [19April1798, Jay to AH]

And then took a breath and sent off another note:

On further Reflection I doubt the propriety of appointing you without your previous permission, and therefore shall postpone it untill I receive your answer. If after well considering the Subject you should decline an appointmt. be so good as to consult with some of our most judicious Friends and advise me as to the Persons most proper to appoint and at the same time likely to accept. [19April1798, Jay to AH]

The situation was that Philip Schuyler had been elected Senator again in 1797, but then had to resign (3Jan1798) due to poor health. John Sloss Hobart had been NY Supreme Court justice for over 20 years and was appointed to Schuyler’s seat on 11Jan1798. But then he was nominated for the federal NY District Court by Pres. Adams. Did Jay think AH wanted to warm his father-in-law’s seat that badly? AH responded to Jay (24Apr1798):

I have received your two favours of the 19th instant. I feel as I ought the mark of confidence they announce. But I am obliged by my situation to decline the appointment. This situation you are too well acquainted with to render it necessary for me to enter into explanation. There may arrive a crisis when I may conceive myself bound once more to sacrifice the interest of my family to public call. But I must defer the change as long as possible.

I do not at present think of a person to recommend as adapted to the emergency. I shall reflect & consult and write you by the next post. This, the first day, is not decisive of our election here; but there is as yet nothing to discourage. With respect & attachment...

He’s already lawyering and anonymously publishing and meddling all over Adams’s administration and reading every newspaper mention of himself to respond to that too (and tending to his family, I guess)- when did Jay think AH would also have time to be a senator? The lucky fellow appointed Senator until the next legislative session instead was - William North. (James Watson was elected to the position in August 1798.)

And of course, in July George Washington would appoint Hamilton Inspector General with the rank of first Major General, jumping both Pinckney and Knox in rank. Yeah, Hamilton’s reputation and prospects were really suffering. And the biggest problem remained unaddressed - that Hamilton needed to make more money.

I believe it’s first attributed to Jefferson, but some of the Federalists also took to calling Hamilton “Colossus.” If he lived now, he could have made shirts with his picture and the logo “Too Big to Fail.”

#Alexander Hamilton #John Jay #George Washington #Philip Schuyler #William North #Quasi War #Hamilton lives - the War of 1812 never happens #Hamilton becomes the 1st Governor General of the British United States of America

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