I'll actually kill Bethesda. you mean that they not only acknowledge but explain the drastic discrepancy in the Nord religion as portrayed in Skyrim vs previous TES games, and it's the result of intentional, systemic imperial colonialism and religious/cultural erasure? you're telling me that for two centuries, the imperials actively worked to root out the traditional Nord religion and replace it with their own deified emperor to justify their imperialism and no one told me? you're telling me they intentionally conflated Tiber Septim, a Breton, with a Nord hero so that he'd be local enough for the Nords? you're telling me the Empire waged a cultural genocide on Skyrim only for it to backfire so spectacularly the Nords become out-and-out Talos fanatics willing to wage a civil war against the Empire for finally rescinding the whole Talos thing? and no one told me??? you're telling me they just casually hid this info with one (1) npc who has no quest importance and lives on the very edge of the map??? and no one told me????????
good lord that makes the whole 'imperial dragonborn vs nord dragonborn' that much worse.
Confession: "i dont like the stormcloaks bc theyre racist" THEYRE ALL RACIST! EVERY FACTION!! they arent even SUBTLE about it!! sobbing crying weeping. the nords endured a cultural erasure from the imperials that spanned the course of actual centuries and it BACKFIRED like maybe if they didnt push their own gods onto the nords the civil war wouldnt have happened idk!! talos is NOT a part of the original nordic pantheon like if the empire didnt do a bit of imperialization they woulda been FINE. im sorry ths is lengthy but im going insane
I’m joking. Quite a lot of people in Skyrim love him, looking at you, Hermir. But one of the most fascinating aspects of Ulfric’s in-game characterization for me has always been the reservations his allies and supporters voice about him. There are some Stormcloak supporters who just idolize the guy, but so many of the prominent Stormcloak supporters in game have critical stuff to say.
Most prominently, two of the Stormcloak Jarls are very critical.
Dengeir: I'm no man's fool. I know Ulfric Stormcloak's selfish and power-hungry, but he's the devil I know.
and
Laila: Between you and I, I think his motivations are a bit more self-serving. He uses this holy war as leverage in order to pursue the throne. If he were to be crowned High King, I'm not so certain it would be the golden age his followers expect.
Hilariously, Laila is upset and asking the court wizard if her son Saerlund has been possessed for saying the following:
Saerlund: "Ulfric only cares about one thing... Ulfric. He's ordained himself the future High King of Skyrim and steps on anyone that gets in his way. He's begun a rebellion against those that wish to eradicate the worship of Talos and uses it as his rallying cry. His cause may be true, but the man is a lie... all he holds in his heart his lust for the throne."
He’s just repeating what his mom said! Her other son is way more circumspect. When Saerlund accuses him of not believing in the Stormcloak cause, he says
I've done what I needed to do keep mother happy. It doesn't matter what I really believe.
The first Stormcloak you meet in game, Ralof, isn’t entirely sure of Ulfric either.
Ralof: I've heard some things about Ulfric I don't like, but he's right about this war and about Skyrim's future.
Ulfric’s Steward Jorlief is enthusiastic about the war while Ulfric is still alive, but expresses some relief when he’s dead.
Jorleif: Serving as Steward to Ulfric Stormcloak was a great honor, but I don't miss his temper.
The people of Windhelm make jokes about Ulfric.
Hillevi: "What is it Ulfric's always saying... "On my honor as a Nord, I swear it. Ha ha ha!"
Nilsine: "So serious! Ha ha ha!"
Ulfric’s court wizard says “If Ulfric needs a favour, he has it,” but also
“Does Ulfric have much need for magic?"
“No, but then I don't have much need for Ulfric. We both leave well enough alone.”
That overall feeling of ambivalence towards Ulfric is why I find the Stormcloak supporters and holds fascinating. The Stormcloaks are a coalition, not a movement of Ulfric worshipers, even if there are a lot of the Ulfric worshippers about. If he’s ever going to reign over Skyrim, he needs to keep a lot of people onside who aren’t very gung-ho about him but think the Thalmor and Empire need to be opposed.
My very personal take is that I don’t think he’s well-suited to hold on to that coalition or rule Skyrim. If he had a really savvy Dragonborn come in to help, that might change because the Dragonborn actually does have wide-spread support. (The really fun Stormcloak victory scenario, though, would be if House Redoran took a practical look at the situation and decided to help prop him up as a barrier state keeping both Thalmor and Empire at bay. Sure, he doesn’t have the best relationship with the Dunmer, but those Morrowind politicians are very practical and as a Morrowind fan I’d root for them getting him to do what they want.)
some of you need to fr chill it's a video game I assure you that choosing one side or the other doesn't make you a colonizer or racist, sort of like how joining the dark brotherhood doesn't make you a murderer.
The civil war quest line in Skyrim always get to me when it comes to Whiterun.
I usually end up siding with the imperials for both personal and role play reasons. When General Tulius sends you off to Whiterun, Jarl Barlgruf will ask you to deliver an axe to Ulfric Stormcloak, basically as a gift and to test the waters in a way. When you do get to Wildhelm and try to deliver the axe on Barlgruufs behalf, Ulfric will apologize and turn you away. It’s important to mention that Ulfric and Barlgruuf used to be friends. And as far as I can tell, pretty good(and close) friends at that. I can only imagine how Barlgruuf feels when the Dragonborn shows up as a soldier and messenger in Whiterun, being told that his once close old friend plans to siege his home.
I can honestly see it in my mind. Barlgruuf offering his sword, asking his once friend to tell him it’s not true. Getting his sword pushed back into him, and told to stand. They cannot fight properly if he grovels, mourning a friendship that Ulfric feels is long over.
Both feel betrayed, but for entirely different reasons.
(Sorry if this doesn’t make sense I’m autistic and it’s been a long day) (on another note, do y’all have any thoughts?)
Just what is says on a tin - some worsties from the Rift.
Captain Valmir, master of disguises, superiorly bred mer.
His pet human co-worker with benefits personal assistant and scribe Cassia.
Lesser daedra Wraith, who ended up bound to Cassia in a freak accident.
And Asgeld, who would very much like for all three of them to leave Skyrim.
It’s dumb to bring up an infamous debate on a century old game I know. But there is just something so wrong in my mind with making the Stormcloak and Imperial Legion war boil down to “A Legion of many races vs racist rebels” because it is forgetting KEY facts about Elder Scroll Lore.
Firstly. It’s incredibly hypocritical to brand the Stormcloaks and Ulfric as racist (which they certainly are) when talking about something called the EMPIRE. A system that has swallowed up whole territories via Tiber Septim’s conquest. The Empire was forged via blood and war. Like any Empire.
Secondly. Nords are not a singular cell of racism. They are not the only ones capable of racism. As stated, Tullius is racist. The Empire and Stormcloak’s have a relationship reminscent of the Ancient Romans and Celts. And the Dunmer, which are not deserving of their predicament mind you, are also insanely racist. You know our favourite goth elf race enslaved the Argonians right? For years? And that it is highly likely one of the reason they are not allowed to live within Windhelm’s walls? Because the infighting between races would be BAD. And I’d need remind you of the High Elf living comfortably in Windhelm’s noble area? A member of the race that the Nords hate the most because all of Summerset’s military are the Thalmor?
Treating the Nords like they’re twitter white men who think their vikings is just so black and white it’s infuriating.
Thirdly. The Stormcloaks are not just fighting for Ulfric to be on the throne or to kill anyone who isn’t a Nord. An Independant Skyrim is their real goal. Because their culture and their way of life is being bargained with for the Thalmor. And..yeah! You’d be pissed if an Empire didn’t want to let you go because you want to practise your religion and culture without being dragged off into the night! Which again, the Empire allows the Thalmor to do! (Tullius’s message to the Battle-Borns shows he is aware of what the Thalmor do but can’t do anything about it!)
One of the themes of Skyrim, as evident by the cracked and chipped dragon symbol on the main menu. Is the decline of the empire. The message that the empire is weak is shoved down your throat. And Hammerfell tore away from it to become independant and they are much stronger for it. Which...can you blame them? So Skyrim is gonna want to do the same.
Course. This does not negate any fo the facts that the Stormcloaks have no contigency plan for if they win. They will be weak and a target for the Thalmor. Who are already instigating them to use them to weaken the Empire further. And they’re directing all their anger to the Empire when the Thalmor are the true enemy. And it’s also not ideal that Nationalism and religious zealousy surrounds their cause. Which is why I don’t support the Stormcloaks. But I also don’t support the empire. They are both failings being played by the Aldmeri Dominion.
Basically. the attitude that because Ulfric is a prick, everyone under the Stormcloak banner is prick, annoys me. Because I see a people who are losing their culture and identity to bargain with a nazi-esque organisation and they want to fight this. Sick of becoming weaker only to delay the inevitable death of an empire that was corrupt to begin with. And the ideal outcome is every territory under the empire banding together to fight the Thalmor. Yet that can’t happen with the Empire hellbent on a slow death....