#<- even though I dont mean this to be syscourse

[system-of-a-feather]

Ignoring the discourse, I just wanted to ramble on parts language and our feelings to it as someone who mainly uses it - but honestly "parts" is our preferred term by a long way save for alter when we are talking about things in a more clinical sense.

Personally for us, headmate, sysmate, and similar "roommate" kind of terms actually feel diminishing to the dynamic we have with one another. Headmate and similar terms draw parallels to roommates housemates, aka someone you share a space with - and I totally understand the draw to those terms for those that like to emphasize the individuality of the parts, but personally to call our relationship to one another something similar to people who just share a body / brain / mind / system etc really feels a bit... downplaying the importance we have to one another and the unique dynamic that comes from being parts of a whole.

XIV, Ray, Lucille, Aderis, all the parts in our system feel far more intimate, personal, and tighter bonds than anything like a housemate or a roommate or "someone I am sharing X with" could possibly reach. By nature we all compliment each other and were literally created to support, bolster, accentuate, and cover for one another.

/Separate people in different bodies are not so genuinely and thoroughly made to exist in synergy with one another the same way alters and parts are. Separate people in different bodies, no matter how close and how far back they go, are never going to be as deeply tied with one another the same way parts are / can be - and if they DO - 9/10 times it is likely super codependent and unhealthy where as with alters that tends to be an ideal.

Of course this depends on how you define "separate people" and all so its not a "well I am RIGHT" cause its how we perceive things and the main point in our perception is that to draw parallels to existences of two 'separate people' sharing a space together honestly just... extremely downplays how intrinsically made for one another we are. My relationship with my parts goes deeper than any two people who share a space could ever go because we were literally MADE for one another. It's impossible to compliment me and support me more than the parts in my system because they ARE LITERALLY my other halves.

So headmate and sysmate just.... always feel really downplaying to what we are.

Alters we are okay and chill with, but it honestly feels both sensationalized and very.... artificial for a lack of better words. Using the word "alter" tends to draw my mind to the more fictional media depictions OR solely to minimizing parts to the clinical expression to which it feels a bit dehumanizing - so unless its for convenient shared language or for clinical / just factual references - we tend to prefer parts.

Parts on the other hand really acknowledges just how intrinsically connected and made for one another we are. We really don't think it diminishes our individuality at all (though that might just be because we are decently far in our healing journey that we can simultaneously hold the idea of 'we are parts of a whole' and 'we are valid as individuals with our experiences and can exist and acknowledge ourselves and one another like individuals' very easily together at the same time) or imply anything about us being broken or shattered or anything.

If anything, parts language reminds me that there IS others out there that are there to fill in the gaps in life that I can't do. It reminds me that I am not in this alone and that I'm not SUPPOSED to be in this alone. I am a whole person, but I am not the whole picture and I don't have to try to be the whole picture because one puzzle piece while beautiful on its own - often works many times better when connected with the others.

I dunno, parts language is just a really really positive and healing thing for us. We love it and while we understand it not being for everyone, it means A LOT to us and really nothing negative.

My parts are made FOR me just as I am made FOR my parts. We are literally MADE for one another because we are PARTS of a whole that are MEANT to work with one another and I think that is really beautiful honestly.

#alter: riku #syscourse #syscourse tw #<- even though I dont mean this to be syscourse #I hesitated on posting it cause I dont wanna add more to the discourse cause its dumb shit #but I think it is better to put my thoughts out on it than ya know #not #anyways #parts language #actuallydid #dissociative identity disorder

[tidal-chaos]

the online system community sucks so bad lmao

#(not talking about any of my system friends/mutuals) #vent #vent post #free to interact/reblog whatever though #anyway it sucks because there isnt actually a cohesive community. it is so divided #there is so much infighting its actually fucking wild #and i wish i could say all the infighting is coming from kids who dont know any better but... its not #adult systems have been poisoned by the infighting too. and it never fucking matters #we arent even accomplishing anything #what. exactly. is the point #the syscourse is hell and its constant and it rarely changes anyones minds #not that it matters if anyones minds change or not because it DOESNT. FUCKING. MATTER. #you go into the system community and everyones just DUKING IT OUT WITH EACH OTHER #i genuinely dont fucking care what side of syscourse youre on #you have better things to fucking do!!!!!! #syscourse doesnt MEAN ANYTHING it is one of the most pointless and yet somehow the most dramatic and hateful debates on the internet #WHO FUCKING CARES. #please for the love of god direct your hate towards something else #this is the most dumb and meaningless thing to waste your energy on #none of this matters irl ever #anti syscourse #tw syscourse #anyway yeah if you're plural i am not going to ask questions because it is none of my fucking business and frankly it is nobody elses either #i am unlikely to ever post anything like this again just because i also have better things to do #but i wanted to get it off my chest #we used to engage in syscourse and it was so draining and got us harassed #and in the end we just realized that it is not worth the energy or the fucks to give #again if you say you are plural i will treat you as plural and thats it. i have shit to do man

[lamp-shading]

idrc what your personal stances on plurality is as long as youre respectful and not hateful/harassing others but you cant go on saying some shit abt this towards endogenic and mixed origin systems. Like you really cant claim youre all for mental health advocacy and call people "schizos" for having experiences you dont agree with (even though theres definite proof of their existances being real. look into astraea's web and lived experiences of non disordered plurals in early 2000's spaces i beg of you this isnt a new concept.)

Also before yall get on my ass yes I know in aspen's description they say theyre schizophrenic but by calling others schizo in a derogatory and insulting way you are being so fucking ableist. Just cus you are schizospec doesnt mean you can throw around these fucking words towards others. I hate involving in syscourse but theres no way in HELL you should be getting away with this.

again, idrc what your stances are as long as youre being respectful, anyone can interact with this post but just know that if you say this ableist shit (calling endogenics schizo, delusional, etc) to justify your stances, congratulations, you fucking suck!

#pluralgang #sysblr #systemblr #did system #traumagenic system #syscourse #endo safe #yeah im tagging this as endo safe cry about it. lol. lmao even. #fuck aspen frost theyve always left a poor taste in our mouth whenever we saw them on tiktok #also did you know terms like traumagenic and endogenic were made by an endogenic/endo supporter #all of yall sysmeds using the term make the terms look shameful #pls look into non disordered/non-trauma plurality a bit more #muting notifications but if this goes anywhere out of our circle this post will be deleted lmao #only syscourse i'll ever post cus seeing this in main tags made me SO FUCKING ANGRY like GOD

[hiiragi7]

hi! hope you dont mind the ask!

since you have a lot of pro-endo stuff on your blog, i was just wondering how endo systems even form? since, did in its essense is inherently formed by trauma

genuinely curious btw!! not trying to start any sort of argument or get into discourse ^^

Well, the thing there is that endogenic plurals and DID aren't the same thing.

Endogenic isn't "DID but without the trauma". Endogenic is an umbrella term for various spiritual, cultural, and psychological experiences. It is not DID. Endogenic plurals are not made up of dissociated states, and they do not tend to display other symptoms of DID such as trauma-based developmemtal issues, attachment issues, comorbid psychological issues, somatic symptoms, personality disorders, and so on. Endogenic plurals also do not tend to split in the same way as a DID system. The two tend to function very differently from each other.

An endogenic plural may form in a variety of ways, such as having been born plural, purposefully developing headmates later in life, or viewing themselves as more than one self may be a part of their spiritual or cultural practices; many cultures for a very long time have had very different ways of viewing the self as well as experiences of possession, and this may account for some endogenic experiences.

This is not meant to be an exhaustive list of how endogenic plurals form, but rather to give you an idea of some of the bigger examples.

An endogenic plural may also be DID or have a trauma history, but for spiritual or cultural reasons they do not view themselves as soley DID or traumagenic, which is related to subjective labelling and differences in how people view themselves and their history. Shit gets messy there. I'm not one to tell people they're wrong in however their cultural or spiritual identity interacts with clinical disorder.

Some plurals may also have their own psychological theories for how their plurality formed unrelated to trauma, which is also a subjective labelling thing.

If a traumagenic framework isn't useful to them (or, worse, actively damaging to their mental health), there's no reason to push it on them, to me. If they are traumagenic, they'll figure it out with time, and if they're endogenic, good for them.

Psychological theories regarding non-DID plurality seem to be especially relevant to parogenic plurals, who most often tend to have psychological explanations for what they're experiencing, but it's not exclusive to them.

I'm a bit conflicted on shared terms and labels, since on one hand it seems that it leads to a lot of conflation of two very different things (DID and endogenic plurality) and misconceptions based off of that, but on the other hand I don't think drawing lines in the sand at who can use what words is useful when these communities have been mixed for such a long time that it's kind of impossible now to really use entirely seperate language.

Just so we're clear though, even if the same language is used, how those terms are used in the context of DID is not the same as how those same words are used in the context of endogenic plurality (think "system" as a big example of this), which I think is where a lot of people get stuck and why origins debates are such a big topic. A big part of origins syscourse is definitely how people define words differently and misconceptions regarding language.

For example, I don't think nearly as many people would be upset with someone saying "different cultures have different ways of viewing the self, with some cultures seeing individuals as having multiple selves" or "my spiritual views mean I see myself as having multiple spiritual identities that are always present", but "you can/can't be a system without trauma" is a very hot topic, because one side defines "system" as the more clinical "system of dissociated parts" while the other defines it as simply "the subjective experience of being more than one".

Sorry for rambling, I'm not really sure how to end this post. I hope this answers the question even if I ended up going on and on about things, lmao.

#syscourse

[ccassettetape]

FAQ

I noticed I’ve been getting quite a few repeated questions recently so here!!

“Can I post a drawing you did on [other social media site]?”

Hi! No! I may make exceptions at some point in the future, but I doubt that will be anytime soon. Any site is included—not Pinterest, Tiktok, Instagram, whatever else there is.

“Are you endo safe?”

I do not give a fuck about the way your brain works. Don’t bring up syscourse with me.

“Do you do commissions/sell stickers/etc?”

No. I am very flattered that you like my creations enough to ask about this, but I don’t. However, I occasionally do requests! Though I may not do yours if I don’t want to or can’t find the time or motivation to, unfortunately.

“Are you a fucking proshipper?”

No, I am not :) I still can’t understand what I’ve posted for so many people to ask this?? like do some of yall just not know what it means. anyway stop asking and honestly dont bring up anything related to anti/pro shipping because i dont give a shit what people do even if i think its gross and fucked up 👍

“Do you make NSFW content?”

I don’t make straight up porn, which is what most of you seem to mean by this. NSFW means “not safe for work,” which I think you’ll find a lot of my posts count as! Suggestive and violent stuff isn’t really safe for workplace or school environments :) /info

“How old are you?”

I’m basically never gonna answer this. Literally basic internet safety is “don’t tell anyone your real name don’t say your age” whatever whatever, you (hopefully) already know. The only thing related to my age you need to know is that I’m a minor! <3

“Can I use your art as an icon?”

ABSOLUTELY!! GO FOR IT!! Just remember to credit me xx

#ccassette recordings #faq

[queerautism]

the whole "ignoring DNIs" thing is dumb as hell. having boundaries doesnt make you untouchable, it cant shield you from criticism and accountability, and certain boundaries cant be completely off limits no matter what.

like holy shit, there is a difference between the completely reasonable boundary that calling people slurs or misgendering them against their will is a scummy thing even if said person is an asshole, and saying that the group that youre regularly attacking and/or invading the spaces of cant ever defend themselves against you, much less be mean about it

which yknow, is most often a result of being beaten down over and over again, being called a horrible person just for your existence, while also having said existence denied at the same time. you cant keep doing that shit to someone and then throw a hissy fit once they snap and throw courtesy out the window. they wouldnt react that way if they didnt have to constantly fight against attacks or sometimes outright misinformation campaigns against them! (btw im using they in the general sense- not specifically rouke or any of its members, but of course it does apply to it. i hope thats ok?)

if you made a DNI that said anti-endos cant interact, we all know that NONE of them would respect that, even if you were to stop interacting with any of them yourself. its lying of the most blatant kind to pretend its about "respecting boundaries" instead of doing everything in their power to silence the voices of the people they hate.

if it was about "respecting boundaries" and "just wanting to keep the communities separate", then they wouldnt be invading every tag or community related to endos and sending hate messages to blogs just for SUPPORTING endogenic systems (even if they arent endo themselves), or co-opting language that was created either for endos or specifically designed to be inclusive of all system types. even among those who *dont* do that (which if theyre a syscourse blog, almost never happens, because of the nature of a syscourse blog), you sure as fuck never see any of them try to intervene or criticise the sysmeds theyre all buddy-buddy with who ARE actively doing that shit, and im willing to bet its just because they agree with it but dont want to get called out on their hypocrisy. like jfc the amnt of times i see them say "we dont support fakeclaiming endos theyre just not systems" even though that like. still very much is constantly happening to everyone who doesnt fit within their limited frame of a "real system", whether theyre talking about an endogenic system or a traumagenic DID system that supports endogenics

if you truly dont support that behavior, then grow a fucking backbone and actually call it out when you see it! if you exclusively save your energy for yelling at endos and endo supporters and making shit up about them, rather than calling out legitimate toxic behavior regardless of the 'side' its coming from- youre a coward who only cares about the propaganda you want to spew, not about actually preventing harm or misinformation. if your asses cant even stop yourself from fucking over DID/OSDD systems (the very same people youre claiming to 'defend') just for disagreeing with you, then why are you even still trying to hide the real endgoal here? i mean we know why, because it doesnt make you look like the "good guys"- i wonder if theres a reason for that.

Yeah yeah yeah agreed on pretty much all counts tbh

[sophieinwonderland]

To be honest I only got here from someone linking your blog, but I can agree on your take on roukes system. They may be trying to protect endos, which I won’t provide an opinion on since I’m rather neutral on the matter, but their approach just feels unproductive. Just yelling at people usually does absolutely nothing to change their views. It just pushes the person farther into a mindset of “oh, their bad, arent they? im good” basically, not really that nuanced and in depth but you get my point. It doesn’t convince them, which isn’t their intention, but if it isn’t, how are they protecting anyone if its a online space like this? I mean, I guess it gives out the feeling of people dont agree, which is pretty good, but you could also do that like, calmly. I dunno, it just doesn’t seem to do anything except either hurt or annoy the other party, maybe if this was a physical setting or something that’s not tumblr, but it isn’t. This is tumblr and that approach will never work with tumblrs format. Tracking down posts that go against endos and yelling at them doesn’t seem to be actually protecting anyone, its just making people feel protected.

Maybe I’m dumb, though.

That's exactly it.

Many of the people being targeted aren't posting in endogenic or plural tags. They're not harming people directly.

One fear I have is that Hyaena or a copycat is going to target anti-endos who aren't even involved in syscourse, just ones who might have endos in their DNIs, attack them, and cause them to get involved and attack us in retaliation when they otherwise wouldn't have.

Whatever safety people think creating conflicts is going to bring will be illusory.

I can't even understand how people could think this would be effective. Anti-endos were doxxed and still stuck around anyway. How can anyone really think throwing around a few insults is going to be effective at chasing people away?

#ask box #syscourse

[oceanlandworld]

lengthy post musing about syscourse more or less, talking about personal opinions & recent thoughts

mmm i used to be very supportive of the notion that general “plural”/all-origin spaces/resources are a good idea but ive been reconsidering lately? largely because talking to some friends + self-introspection has made me think more about the specific needs of traumatized people and how even just in having interacted with a lot of other systems it’s pretty noticeable that people who consider themselves to have/be traumagenic systems talk about their systemhood differently?

like for a long time we personally felt as though we Had to be fairly open about details of our system + sign messages to show who is fronting at a given time + be able to clearly tell who is fronting at a given time and stuff of this nature, but all of these things make us feel different levels of Anxious and in a lot of cases just. thinking for too long about system stuff itself makes us dissociate

and then we learned about dissociative barriers + phobia of inner experience and it was like. Oh. Lol. thats normal when you dissociate from trauma

& have been realizing more that a lot of our unrealistic expectations for how we should be experiencing systemhood came from people & spaces that emphasized “plurality” as an identity and like it’s still important to me/us but god the “plural community” can be so damn alienating if you dont wanna constantly be sharing your alters or just. don’t function in a way that is neatly describable using “housemate” analogies etc (like, i think our relationship w/ our body is a bit different than some systems + we don’t experience switches in terms of retreating into headspace, but in terms of shifting perspectives)

this isnt to say that we havent seen DID-focused spaces that are also rly hostile to people with experiences of systemhood that dont match specific expectations >__> or like. towards anyone who is even “supportive” of endogenic systems, which often means “not sufficiently hostile towards” lmao

& i dont think all ppl who id as endogenic systems are lying or faking or delusional or necessarily even Wrong, i think it’s presumptive to claim to know someone else’s experiences so intimately that you can make categorical claims like that

but i also find it soooo weird now seeing people acting like the needs of endogenic and traumagenic systems are identical and that having a Big Community is super important. like fundamentally i think being plural Is different when a large part of your system is directly concerned with overwhelmingly painful emotions/memories/sensations vs when it isnt

(i dont mind talking abt this in good faith with friends but pleeeeaaase dont interpret this as an invitation to tell me Why I Am Wrong. u dont need to agree with me but i do not feel like arguing lmao. not tagging bc i do Not want weirdos finding this)

[sprltekind]

what does endosystem mean?

long answer ahead, yes i know what im talking about im in a system and used to be a syscourser

System: A body that contains two or more people. Also referred to as a multiple. 

Endogenic: A system created without trauma. (this does not mean the system was created without a cause, only that the cause is not trauma.)

so an endogenic (endo) system would be a system created without trauma. theres also mixed systems (systems from varying origins), quoigenic systems (systems who are unsure about their origin, and usually dont care) and traumagenic systems (systems from traumatic origins). i think there are spiritual systems too but im not as educated on those. headmates (aka people in the system) in one system can be from any of these origins, so if youre in a traumagenic system you could also be  quoigenic in origin, or if youre from a mixed system you can be traumagenic in origin.

i myself am from a mixed and probably traumagenic system, being that our headmates are from everything listed above including spiritual/soulbonds, but our actual system formed to help cope with trauma.

most traumagenic systems fall under the DID/OSDD diagnosis (google it, this ones in the dsm) but not all do, ours included.

and so someone who is anti-endogenic systems (anti-endos) would be someone who thinks you need DID/OSDD to be a system. theyre wrong but i dont have time to explain it other than there is no scientific research to back them up and their main argument is “its not in the dsm therefore it must be fake” even though the dsm is constantly being updated also doctors dont care about individuals, they care about diagnoses so of COURSE theyre not putting it in the dsm. but i digress.

oh and i took the first two definitions from non-trauma-headspace which is a good blog for this sorta thing

#faq #not sprites #this is a lengthy answer because its a bit much to explain if you dont know what a system is in the first place #THIS IS NOT AN INVITATION TO START SYSC/URSE #systhings

[sophieinwonderland]

I've read a few of your posts, and I've noticed you claim that there's a lot of proof that endos/tulpa exists. I didn't come with any ill intent seeing as you are a person and I want to be respect even if we have different ideas on syscourse. Do you have proof that we can actually look at? Every professional I know states that it isn't possible and so now I'm curious about when you mentioned there being references in the diagnostic manual. Again, no harm implied! /gen

I've referenced some of it in this post: https://sophieinwonderland.tumblr.com/post/670457949081239552/things-that-dont-exist-usually-dont-have-a-lot

There is also Tanya Luhrmann's work in studying the creation of "God" as a psychological construction describing methods similar to tulpamancy.

Congregants explicitly understood this process of recognizing God in their minds as a skill, which they needed to learn by repeatedly carrying on inner-voice “conversations” with God during prayer and being attentive to the mental events that could count as God’s response. The many prayer manuals presumed that prayer was not an intuitive act but, rather, a skill that needed to be explicitly taught and deliberately learned. As one states: “An essential part of living the with-God life is learning how we can communicate to God. ... But being aware of how God is supporting us and communicating too us is not always easy. We must train ourselves to listen for God and to respond to him” (Graybeal and Roller 2006). Congregants also often said that when they were learning to hear God speak in their minds—to distinguish between their own thoughts and God’s thoughts—at first it was baffling. “When I was starting to be a Christian,” one man recalled, “people would be like, so what’s God saying to you? And I’m like, heck, I don’t know.”

Nevertheless, many said that they had learned to recognize God’s voice the way they recognized a person’s voice on the phone. As one congregant explained, “It’s a different sort of voice. I mean, I know my own voice. If I thought of your voice I would think of how your voice sounds, and if I think of my voice I think of how it sounds, even if I’m not hearing anything. It’s a different tone of voice.” Or, as another put it: “It’s like recognizing someone—it’s like, how do you recognize your mom?” It was acknowledged in the church that each person would experience God in their own way and develop their own patterns of learning to recognize him: some through warm tingling; others through goose bumps; others still through images or impressions or scriptural phrases. “I get a lot of images,” one person explained. Another said: “I rarely see images. When I pray for people I get sensations that I can in turn translate into words. ... Like more than seeing the bird, you feel the flight of the bird.” Congregants were insistent that one could learn to identify God. “It gets to a point you just know it’s God’s voice. It’s very snappy and comes with constant prayer just non-stop.”

The source is behind a paywall, though, so the only way to read it all legally is to pay for it. I cannot recommend technically illegal methods of reading scholarly articles like Sci-Hub. I can only acknowledge that they exist and that I can't prevent people from using them.

I do use the word "evidence" rather than proof. Proof, in my opinion, would require more research than what we have right now.

There needs to be more research into more aspects of the endogenic experience on all levels. Switching is a major one, in particular, since that seems to be a major factor in what many would define to make a "system," and yet hasn't been studied at all yet.

Additionally, the psychologists that are finding evidence for these phenomena are largely singlets who are still starting at the base assumption that there is only a single "self" in every human brain, and building their conclusions around that worldview. So evidence of other autonomous consciousnesses will frequently be handwaved away as delusions. Even the hypothesis of the article I referenced ultimately dismisses these autonomous mental voices in much the same way, concluding that the phenomenon is merely people getting absorbed in a fantasy.

DID only got recognition because the memory separation between headmates makes it difficult for singlets to dismiss it as merely the result of an overactive imagination. (And that doesn't always stop them.)

The science into endogenic systems is young. Nothing is technically "proven" yet. But there is very strong evidence in support of our existence, while there isn't any evidence against it that I can find. As more studies are conducted, I expect more affirmative evidence will come to light.

#ask box #tulpa #tulpas #syscourse #endogenic #actually endogenic #multiplicity #tulpamancy #endogenic system #actuallymultiple #plural #plural system #plurality #psychology