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v-arbellanaris · 1 year

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on divine justinia (pt 3)

Justinia V will be remembered as one of the most progressive Divines in the history of the Chantry. Before her untimely death at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, she made strides to break down barriers for both mages and elves, as well as encouraging free thought among the Maker’s many children. For her views, she won as many enemies as she did supporters.

-- World of Thedas Vol 2.

PART THREE of a series, exploring Divine Justinia’s political stance. Was she really as progressive as people claimed?

Firstly, before we even dive into looking at Justinia as a character, we should define ‘progressive’. In the most base of definitions, it implies progress -- a gradual betterment. As a widely accepted definition, someone whose politics advocate for social reform.

PART ONE - LELIANA'S SONG. / PART TWO - DRAGON AGE II. / PART THREE - THE MASKED EMPIRE.

The Masked Empire

As always, before we begin, here's some contextual factors to this story that are necessary to know/things I'm going to emphasise here out of relevance:

There are three weeks in-world between the events of TME and Asunder -- that means the Order is still bound to the Chantry, and the Circles are still very much in-tact.

One year after the events in Kirkwall, Fiona is elected as the new Grand Enchanter and immediately proposes to secede from the Chantry. In response, the Chantry disbands the College of Enchanters and stops them from meeting, despite the fact that this vote did not go through (in large part due to the urging of Wynne).

The War of the Lions hasn't yet started in earnest, though tensions between Gaspard and Celene are running high.

For the most part, I'm going to focus specifically on two scenes, both involving conversations between Celene and Leliana, who is acting as a representative for Divine Justinia.

Well! Let's dive right into it -- in this first scene, Leliana and Celene meet to discuss the growing mage-templar tensions, and what Justinia will do about it.

Celene: The templars have become even more restless since what happened in Kirkwall, as have the mages, for that matter. What does Dorothea intend to do? Leliana: The Divine does not wish to assume that what transpired in Kirkwall was anything more than the actions of a single mad mage driven to tragic action by overzealous templars. You know that in some Marcher city-states, mages face more restrictions than they do in Orlais.

"A single mad mage" is an obvious reference to Anders. Anders was not "mad" -- some strange writing decisions seemed to conflate his shared body with a spirit of Justice to having bipolar disorder. Even if you do interpret that as Anders also being bipolar, that wouldn't make him crazy. More than that, Anders protested Meredith's treatment of mages -- and he was right about all of it, in the end. Alrik really was making mages Tranquil to rape them -- and he really did propose a Tranquil solution to the Divine, who rejected it. (Unsurprising, considering the looming threat of the Qunari invasion in Act 2; I've written here about how the Circle functions primarily as a military resource and how the only time you see mages let out in Kirkwall properly is during the Qunari invasion when the templars instruct the Circle mages to defend the city). Meredith really was turning Harrowed mages Tranquil -- Karl Thekkla, for example, but she also turns Maddox Tranquil and can turn all of the surviving Starkhaven mages Tranquil as well -- against Chantry law. Most damningly, Meredith had already called for the Right of Annulment in Kirkwall long before Anders took any action at all -- she really was going to kill all of the mages and had taken the steps necessary to facilitate that action. Anders' actions were a direct response to Meredith asking the Divine for permission to slaughter the entire Circle. Cassandra interrogates Varric in 9:41, and it's unclear where that fits into this timeline, but Varric does say that he was brought to Haven after his interrogation. I'll give Leliana (and Justinia) the benefit of the doubt here and say that maybe they don't have the full story just yet.

But Leliana also says "overzealous templars" -- overzealous templars that Leliana and Justinia had plenty of opportunity to censure or bring to heel, and never did. Overzealous templars -- because of course, they're just very passionate when they're sending death squads to hunt down civilians accused of helping "apostates" and murdering nobility trying to organise an election of a new Viscount. They're just very passionate about their beliefs in the Maker when they make mages Tranquil to rape them, when they beat Tranquil mages over things they can't control, and making eleven year old children Tranquil. They're just very passionate about their beliefs in the Maker which is why they refused to investigate the actual serial killer using magic in Kirkwall, because they wanted to remain in favour with the nobility. And Justinia knows this because this was going on for three years, during which Justinia did nothing until the mages started to rebel.

More importantly, this is ... the direct opposite of what Leliana said in DA2. In DA2, Leliana explicitly states that they (both herself and the Divine, who she speaks on behalf of) attribute the unrest in Kirkwall to the Resolutionists -- an offshoot of the Libertarian Fraternity, who are interested in freeing mages from the Circle. Not that the unrest was a result of horrific abuses in the Circle, or even the untenable political situation in Kirkwall. There was certainly no indication that Justinia suspected or agreed that the templars overstepped their bounds -- there was no directive from Justinia, who would have overruled Elthina on the matter, forcing Meredith to back down. There was no statement ever claiming that the templars were wrong to act as they did. If anything, Justinia threatened an Exalted March to help the templars maintain their control of Kirkwall.

So why phrase it like this? I think the interesting thing to note here is actually Leliana's use of the phrase "the Divine does not wish to assume". This seems to indicate that at this time, Justinia is trying not to treat the situation as a mage rebellion - she is treating Kirkwall, not as the start of a mage rebellion, but rather an isolated incident involving a single crazy mage and some passionate templars. There is some indication here that she's reluctant to consider Kirkwall or the mages voting for secession as indicative of a wider problem but...

“I do,” Celene said, “and I also know that you have not answered my question. If Dorothea proposes to do nothing to unite the templars and the mages, she is following in the footsteps of Grand Cleric Elthina, who waited and prayed while Kirkwall tore itself apart.” She turned and faced Nightingale directly. The other woman had reacted again at the use of the Divine’s given name. “Justinia wishes to see this world made better, Your Radiance. We gain nothing by acting capriciously.” “Sometimes events do not allow us the time we wish, especially when magic is at play.” Celene looked at Nightingale, who sat as a proper lady, relaxed and poised in her simple robes, and made a guess. “I understand that during the last Blight, the Circle tower in Ferelden was nearly lost when one of their senior mages became an abomination. After killing the creatures, the Hero of Ferelden was forced to decide on the spot whether to kill every remaining mage in the tower.” Her barb struck home, as Nightingale blinked, then said with heat, “We are hardly in the thick of battle, Your Radiance.” “We are always in battle,” Celene said. “It is only that some of us do not always realize it."

Following on from the thread of the previous conversation, to me, Celene seems to be urging Leliana to tell the Divine to take more definitive action against the mages. She deliberately creates a parallel between Elthina insisting she had control of the situation and not taking direct action to Justinia insisting Kirkwall was a single isolated incident. She directly draws parallels between how Elthina's lack of action led to the situation in Kirkwall and how Justinia's lack of action could lead to a similar situation with the mages and templars.

More alarmingly, however, is Celene's next, far more subtle proposal. To me, I was always baffled by why Celene suddenly started to talk about Kinloch Hold, but after looking at this context, I actually think Celene is suggesting a much more permanent, direct resolution to the mage problem, similar to the kind of decision the HoF had to make - whether or not to annul the entire Circle.

To me, I think this reads as Celene proposing the Chantry goes to war on the mages. She chooses the specific example of Kinloch Hold because Leliana was there - so that Leliana will not misunderstand the kind of action she expects the Divine to take.

To Leliana's credit, she does retort that the conflict hasn't escalated to the point where that's necessary yet, and that the Divine does not wish to act "capriciously".

“Perhaps I might,” Celene said, and smiled before lowering her voice and continuing. “Divine Justinia must know this: I have nobles begging in private salons for the throne to take direct action in this matter.” At Leliana’s shocked look, she nodded. “There are men of Orlais who would sooner see us march upon our own people in the name of safety. I would despise that. Dorothea knows that I would. But I must offer them some alternative.” Leliana stood, frowning in thought. “You wish the Divine to make some overt show of ameliorating the situation.” Celene let out a breath. “In truth, any overt show will bring complaints that I have allowed the Chantry free rein to rule this empire for me,” she said, and Leliana nodded wordlessly. “But if Justinia can calm tempers before I am forced to turn the blade of the empire upon itself, then I will pay such a price willingly.” Leliana smiled. “You think less for yourself and more for Orlais than I had expected, Your Radiance. It is a fortunate quality in a ruler, and one I have not seen enough.” Celene stood as well, and for a moment her gown was bathed in the crimson light of the stained glass. “Tell me something. How large was the Archdemon?” Leliana laughed the delicate cultured laugh of a noblewoman or trained bard. The effect made her sister’s robes look like a poor disguise. “Large enough, Your Radiance, that after having seen it, most problems seem small by comparison.” Her face turned serious, and she added, “I will ask Justinia to consider acting directly. She will want your support, to head off accusations that she might be attempting to steal power for herself.” “Of course. Perhaps if she made a statement at a ball thrown in her honor?” Leliana considered it. “It is not the place where one would expect her to make such a pronouncement…” “Which is why you like the idea,” Celene said, smiling.

Celene makes it clear here that the Orlesian nobility is restless about the growing mage/templar situation which is quickly growing unstable. I specifically want to draw attention to Celene's phrasing here - "march upon our own people in the name of safety" - because I think the implication here that she considers the mages as "her own people" is an appeal to Leliana to get the Divine to act.

But how does she want Justinia to act? At a first glance, it seems reasonable here that Celene is asking for Justinia to try and talk to the mages and templars and settle things between them. Except, when Leliana specifically asks whether Justinia should "make some overt show or ameliorating the situation", Celene's response is that "any overt show will bring complaints" - which reads to me as a decline. She is declining that Justinia should try to reason with both parties.

On top of that, there's some more ambigious phrasing here. ".. if Justinia can calm tempers" - Celene makes no mention here of whose tempers she means. From a first glance perspective, or even from Leliana's perspective, it might seem like she's referring to the roused tempers of the templars and mages, following on from the actions in Kirkwall. But with the context of the previous paragraph in mind, where she very much points out that the nobility of Orlais are not happy with the state of the mage/templar situation, I think she's referring to Justinia doing something that will calm the tempers of the nobility of Orlais.

Later, she follows it up with the phrase "I will pay such a price willingly", referring to the public loss of opinion with the nobility if Justinia can calm these tempers. To Leliana, I imagine it reads as something magnanimous - indeed, Leliana even says that Celene thinks "more for Orlais" than herself, which was unexpected.

But to me, it reads as Celene promising Justinia that if the situation worsens, if Justinia calls for an Exalted March on the mages, Orlais will answer the call. Orlais is willing to march on the mages, if only Justinia calls for an Exalted March, and Orlais -- through it's Empress -- is willing to lose the small amount of public opinion - that people might whisper she's allowing the Chantry free reign of Orlais (and, presumably, all it's resources, for the purposes of this Exalted March, which is actually... an interesting perspective for Orlais to take. But I will not get sidetracked here) - if it accomplishes the greater goal of resolving the mage/templar tensions directly and definitively, because the lack of resolution is causing a negative reaction from the Orlesian nobles, which we know Gaspard is taking advantage of.

(Important to note: at this point, an Exalted March is still entirely feasible; the Order is still bound to the Chantry by the Nevarran Accord. Justinia has been considering an Exalted March since 9:37, though Leliana's dialogue suggests she's hesitant to go through with it. Historically, Orlais has contributed to the Exalted Marches and has been the sole contributor of at least one Exalted March.)

But Vee, I hear you say, this is absurd. Surely, this is a bad faith reading of the situation, no way Celene would propose something like this. No way Leliana or even Justinia would agree to this.

I have several counterarguments to this: firstly, the Grand Game of Orlais relies on complexity of word play and layered meanings. It relies on saying on thing and meaning, at the very minimum, three other things. It's entirely plausible for Celene to be appealing to Leliana's sense of empathy and justice, to seem to be proposing that Justinia soothe the tempers of the mages and templars to prevent something worse from happening, using the same words that she's actually proposing something entirely different - and more violent and direct - to Justinia with.

Secondly, by the time Justinia calls for the Conclave at the Temple of Sacred Ashes, she already has a writ for the creation of the Inquisition prepared and Leliana already has agents planted in the Hinterlands, only minutes away from Redcliffe, where the mage rebellion is seeking refuge. The Inquisition was planned and I am fairly sure that the Inquisition was created specifically to march on the mages. This is not a last minute thought - that writ is huge - this was planned. This was in the works already - why isn't it feasible that this is where it starts? Justinia was already considering an Exalted March on Kirkwall. Why is it so unfeasible that she'd consider more direct action to deal with the mages?

Thirdly, there's actually a follow-up conversation with Leliana about this that I think pretty much confirms that this is what Celene and Leliana (and as she's a proxy for Justinia, also the Divine) are discussing here.

Take the next excerpt:

Celene shut her eyes. “And what does the Divine think about this?” Leliana smiled. “The Divine has never had a very high opinion of the theater, Your Radiance.” At Celene’s silence, the Divine’s representative sighed. “The elves are the children of the Maker, just as we are, and just as deserving of His grace.” “But the Divine will not say that,” Celene guessed. Leliana looked away. She had been trained as a bard, so every movement she made was likely deliberate, but Celene thought that her discomfort was genuine. “I have … been comrade-in-arms with elves. I would not see them harmed. But you did not ask for her support in that matter.” She looked back at Celene. “You asked for her support calming the templars and the mages.” “Indeed.” Celene nodded. “And will she give that support?” Leliana let out a breath. “She will,” she said, nodding slowly, “but in return, she needs to know that this matter with the elves is under control.” Celene felt her heart break inside her, for all that she had known within moments how the conversation would go. She breathed a tiny sigh, and then said, “Of course. I could hardly ask the Divine to keep her affairs in order were I not willing to do the same myself. I hope you enjoy the coming ball in Justinia’s honor. I fear I will not be able to attend in person.” “The Divine understands,” Leliana said, and in a soft, sad voice, added, “Walk with the Maker’s blessing.”

I've written a little bit before on how Justinia doesn't seem to care very much about the methods that Celene uses to resolve the situation with the elves -- it's Leliana who hopes for a peaceful resolution. It's Leliana who believes elves are children of the Maker.

But I actually think what's happening in this scene is more horrifying than I initially thought. This is the second interaction between the two -- and with the context of the first scene, it feels like this is Leliana saying the Divine has agreed to more drastic measures for the mage rebellion if Celene will also deal with the elven rebellion. That the Divine will accept Orlais' support and march on the mages if Celene can deal with the elven rebellion quickly.

This is Leliana passing on Divine Justinia's agreement to a more permanent solution to the mage rebellion. This is Divine Justinia agreeing to an Exalted March on the mage rebellion, and agreeing to support Celene if Celene will support her. Justinia's support here is conditional on Celene maintaining control - and Celene's support is conditional on Justinia maintaining control.

That's...horrifying. But why else would Leliana sound sad, unless she knew exactly what Celene was going to do? What the Divine was allowing Celene to do? What the Divine was telling Celene to do in exchange for the solution Celene proposed? Celene herself explicitly states that she cannot ask the Divine to take action without also being willing to take kind of action herself.

And as we know, the direct action Celene takes to deal with the rumours in Orlais of her sympathising with elves, to solidify her political position, is to slaughter all the elves in the Halamshiral alienage. That is the clearest indication to me that what Celene was proposing was an Exalted March on the mages - and the Divine agreed.

i want you to keep in mind that, at this stage, the College of Enchanters has been dissolved. Fiona has proposed seceding from the Chantry but the vote did not pass. For the most part, there is no mage rebellion currently; they've been cut off from each other, their right of assembly has been revoked, and the templars are still very much aligned with the Chantry. What Justinia is agreeing to here is if the situation gets worse, she will take action, and Orlais will back her up on it.

This sets up the background for Asunder; the Divine's last ditch attempt at resolving the situation before she takes definitive action against the mages.

Could they be with Gaspard, countering Celene’s plan? Unlikely. Ser Michel would never have turned traitor, and while Melcendre had lured him out with blackmail once, he was still too ashamed to allow such a ruse to work twice. They had come from Celene. Had Gaspard done something to force the empress’s hand? Had the Divine made a new demand? What had changed Celene’s mind? Then, as she came past the torches, Briala saw the night sky, glowing a sooty red. She smelled the smoke of Halamshiral’s slums burning. After that, Briala stopped thinking.

#i think this is going to be the most controversial one yet #my da meta #dragon age: the masked empire #divine justinia v #da the masked empire #celene valmont #leliana #justinia critical #celene critical #anti chantry #edit: added an extra sentence for clarity #the entire justinia/celene thing is quid pro quo. and it relies on them keeping in power #edited x2: for some spelling errors and a missing hyperlink #on divine justinia meta series

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pikapeppa · 1 year

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Felassan opened his eyes. “My name, among our people, means ‘slow arrow.’ It comes from a story in which the god Fen’Harel was asked by a village to kill a great beast. He came to the beast at dawn, and saw its strength, and knew it would slay him if he fought it. So instead, he shot an arrow up into the sky. The villagers asked Fen’Harel how he would save them, and he said to them, ‘When did I say that I would save you?’ And he left, and the great beast came into the village that night and killed the warriors, and the women, and the elders. It came to the children and opened its great maw, but then the arrow that Fen’Harel had loosed fell from the sky into the great beast’s mouth, and killed it.

The children of the village wept for their parents and elders, but still they made an offering to Fen’Harel of thanks, for he had done what the villagers had asked. He had killed the beast, with his cunning, and a slow arrow that the beast never noticed.”

Briala thought about the story for a moment. Her teacher would disapprove if she jumped to conclusions. “Fen’Harel the trickster, never truly on anyone’s side.”

“Fen’Harel was a sneaky bastard that way, according to the old stories,” Felassan said.

“And you are the slow arrow?”

Felassan smiled. “I hope so.”

-- The Masked Empire by Patrick Weekes

***********

A portrait of Felassan by the sweet and wonderful @hansaera, who makes the most wonderful art! 🥰 It's going to be so great to see Felassan alive and well in Dreadwolf when he most definitely will show up [she said whilst applying clown makeup]

#felassan #save felassan #listen all i'm saying is that if he doesn't survive in canon then I'll make him survive myself #dragon age #dragon age: the masked empire #the masked empire

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aldanil · 5 months

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The Masked Empire Briala “tarot” card

#the masked empire #briala #celene #dragon age inquisition #dragon age #Patrick Weekes

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ealyblu · 12 days

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Some of the best characters ever, no I'm not taking notes

#dragon age #the masked empire #briala #felassan #ealydraws

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lost-in-thedas · 8 months

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Not much interesting concept behind this but tried to draw Briala

#dragon age inquisition #dragon age #the masked empire #Briala

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dalishious · 28 days

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Briala my beloved

#briala #dragon age #the masked empire #art

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ohmyarda · 1 year

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Slow Arrow “The god Fen'Harel was asked by a village to kill a great beast. He came to the beast at dawn, and saw its strength, and knew it would slay him if he fought it. So instead, he shot an arrow up into the sky. The villagers asked Fen'Harel how he would save them, and he said to them, ‘When did I say that I would save you?’ And he left, and the great beast came into the village that night and killed the warriors, and the women, and the elders. It came to the children and opened its great maw, but then the arrow that Fen'Harel had loosed fell from the sky into the great beast’s mouth, and killed it. The children of the village wept for their parents and elders, but still they made an offering to Fen'Harel of thanks, for he had done what the villagers had asked. He had killed the beast, with his cunning, and a slow arrow that the beast never noticed.” The Masked Empire, pg. 73

#dragon age #da #dai #dragon age inquistion spoilers #dragon age inquisition #the masked empire #solas #fen’harel #dread wolf #the dread wolf

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anneapocalypse · 9 months

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Why Vivienne Needs the Inquisition

No one 'winds up' at Court, my dear. It takes a great deal of effort to arrive there.

–Enchanter Vivienne to the Inquisitor

An ask I received (referring, I think, to something I said in this post, though I've alluded to it at other points as well):

How/why is Vivienne's position at court shakier than it seems? (Please publish this anonymously.)

Thank you for asking! I’ve wanted to write something on this subject for a while, so I appreciate the push to get it all down. It’s something I find really interesting about Vivienne, because it's something she doesn't want the Inquisitor, or anyone, to know, so it's all subtext in the game. Vivienne is a character who always holds the player character at arms' length--a bit less so when she likes them, but there is always some distance there. As such, she's a difficult character to get to know.

And while I do have some issues with the way Vivienne is handled in the game, particularly with narrative and quest design, I won’t be touching on those heavily here. For this post I want to focus on what can be determined about her motivations from the character as written.

Vivienne can be recruited to the Inquisition after the Inquisitor's first trip to Val Royeaux. Notably, she seeks out the Inquisitor's attention herself, inviting them to a gala at the Duke of Ghislain's estate, and also notably, once recruited she will not leave the Inquisition and cannot be forced to leave, no matter how low her approval of the Inquisitor. This is also something I have seen people question: why can't you kick Vivienne out, and why won't she simply leave if she disapproves of your choices? I hope this post will answer that question as well.

The most critical aspect of Vivienne's character to understand, I think, is that she has no stable institutional power. She is not a noble. She has no familial connections of the sort that can help even a mage to keep their head above water. She is a woman who was taken from her family at a young age and raised in an institution, and who has used all her wit and charisma to make the very best of that situation for herself.

Vivienne's position as First Enchanter of Montsimmard is mostly an achievement within the Circle itself. Montsimmard itself, however, was also a stepping stone to influence outside the Circle. Personally, I think the fact that Vivienne declined to join any fraternity when she became a full Enchanter, a shocking move at the time, indicates that she held ambitions outside the Circle from a young age. And Montsimmard was the perfect proving ground for her, a major Orlesian city whose ruling family maintain close relations with the Circle. In The Masked Empire, the Marquise de Montsimmard boasts about dining at the Circle, and she and her husband wear masks adorned with lyrium crystals which we are told were a gift from the First Enchanter. It seems likely, though not confirmed, that this was Vivienne herself.

(Incidentally, it is a real shame that Vivienne’s character seems to have solidified so late in the game’s development, because in retrospect I really feel her absence in the novels. She gets a brief mention in The Masked Empire as Madame de Fer, and absolutely nothing in Asunder, which we'll come back to.)

It seems that the Montsimmard mages were called upon with some regularity to entertain the court, and this is how Vivienne first caught the attention of Duke Bastien in 9:16 Dragon. Within a year, she had moved into a suite in his estate. Her position came under attack for the next few years, but nonetheless, after a single meeting with Empress Celene in 9:20 Dragon, she became the newly-crowned Empress's Court Enchanter.

(Edited to add: It seems to be sometime after this that Vivienne became First Enchanter of Montsimmard, at "an age young enough to cause scandal," though the date is never confirmed that I can find. Incidentally, as @shrovetidecat brought to my attention in the notes, Fiona is also supposed to have been Grand Enchanter of Montsimmard, which given that may be a lore inconsistency, unless Vivienne is only meant to have taken the position after Fiona rose to Grand Enchanter—and I'm not sure why a 40-year-old First Enchanter would be scandalous.)

By the time she meets the Inquisitor, she is likely somewhere in her 40s, and has been the Enchanter to the Imperial Court and the Mistress to the Duke de Ghislain for twenty years. She regularly mingles with the court and has built a practically unprecedented influence for herself in Orlesian high society.

And it's all about to fall apart, for three critical reasons.

First, the obvious: the mage rebellion. One cannot be First Enchanter of a Circle that no longer exists, though Vivienne certainly tries. A majority of mages, even if by a razor-thin margin, have declared that they do not recognize the Circle's authority—and therefore Vivienne's authority as a loyal Enchanter within that system.

I think Vivienne's dialogue with the Inquisitor and her remarks if taken to Redcliffe reveal a deep frustration and resentment of Grand Enchanter Fiona, who called for the vote to leave the Circle and now leads the rebel mages. Vivienne of course handles this in the manner to which she is accustomed, the culture of the Imperial Court, in which trading in verbal jabs and barely-veiled insults is a standard matter of social one-upsmanship. Outside of that environment, she comes across as petty and rude, which is an interesting point of characterization in itself: Vivienne has thrived in the court environment, but she does seem to have a bit of trouble adapting her manner to different circumstances, where that sort of thing might not benefit her. But what she's trying to do is frame herself before the Inquisitor as the reasonable and respectable mage, and Fiona as misguided and pitiable. How well this goes for her, of course, depends on who the Inquisitor is. But the effort itself kind of reveals the shaky ground she's standing on.

In her dialogue with the Inquisitor, Vivienne claims that as the rebel mages follow Fiona, the loyal mages follow her. But where are these loyal mages? There's maybe one or two mages we meet in the game (Enchanter Ellendra comes to mind) who seem to respect Vivienne's word. But if the loyal mages look to her as a leader, why is Ellendra alone in a cave in the Hinterlands to begin with? Why doesn't Vivienne bring a group of these loyal mages with her to Skyhold?

I think it's because Vivienne doesn't truly have followers among the mages, the way Fiona does. This is the story she's telling the Inquisitor, to capitalize on the idea that the rebel position is not a consensus, and also that she still has influence among a significant number of mages. The truth is, she doesn't. She’s spent most of her life courting influence outside the Circle, not in it. She has presided over a Circle where she doesn’t even live day-to-day. I can’t imagine that has particularly endeared her to many of her fellow mages, even the ones who are loyalists or moderates.

Contrast this with Wynne, a pro-Circle Aequitarian who is deeply involved in Circle life despite undertaking sanctioned work outside the tower, and is also deeply involved in the events leading up to the vote for independence. Whatever the Doylist reasons for Vivienne's absense from Asunder, the fact remains: she's just not there. She has no presence in the events leading up to the rebellion. When speaking critically of Fiona's vote, she discusses it in the context of Anders' attack on the Kirkwall Chantry, and says nothing of the circumstances surrounding Fiona's push for a vote—not the revelations about Tranquility, not the conclave (no not that Conclave, the conclave of mages at which Fiona called for the vote for independence), not the subsequent massacre by the templars and the remaining mages' decision to stand and fight. And perhaps most notably, no one mentions Vivienne, positively or negatively, during the events of Asunder. Not once. We are left with the conclusion that Vivienne is simply not heavily involved in Circle politics, no matter what impression she may wish to give the Inquisitor. Her influence does not lie within the Circle.

And I think Vivienne knows this, and realizes that it's suddenly become a big problem for her.

The second big problem is Morrigan.

Vivienne has had the favor of the Empress herself for twenty years. She has, by others' accounts, managed to turn the position of Court Enchanter from "little more than court jester" to a position of influence and respect. And then the Grand Duke attempts a coup, and the Empress's elven lover runs away with a dangerous secret, and suddenly the Empress is enlisting the services of some unwashed swamp witch while Vivienne is standing right there!

Like I cannot overstate what a absolutely galling slap in the face it would be to Vivienne that even as she is attempting to uphold the legitimacy of the Circle and thus of her own authority within it, Celene effectively creates the "Arcane Advisor" position as "Court Mage 2: Apostate Boogaloo" just so she can get advice on non-Circle-approved magics. Advice that Vivienne could not give even if she wanted to, even if the Empress asked, because she has no knowledge of eluvians and ancient elven magic.

Both Dorian and Cole needle Vivienne about her jealousy of Morrigan, and I think quite accurately, no matter how quick Vivienne is to deny it.

Her influence over the Empress is fast eroding. She has been replaced in all but name.

And the third and most personal big problem is Bastien's illness.

Vivienne has enjoyed a romance with one of the empire's most influential nobles for twenty years. She has lived in his home and been on good terms with his wife until her passing. Her influence in the Imperial Court owes a lot to Bastien's affections. Bastien is not only a Duke but a member of the Council of Heralds, the political body responsible for overseeing matters of titles and inheritance in Orlais. They are quite literally the most powerful group in the country; even the Empress rules at their favor, without which she would never have gained the throne in the first place.

And now Bastien is dying, something Vivienne takes care not to mention to the Inquisitor at first. It's not until after the ball at the Winter Palace that Vivienne asks the Inquisitor for help with her potion in a last-ditch attempt to prolong his life—and even then she does not reveal her true purpose until after the Inquisitor has returned with the wyvern's heart. And while it's possible to interpret multiple ways, I personally believe from her response to his death that she did care for Bastien. She didn't need to bring the Inquisitor to his deathbed at all, if she wanted to continue concealing his illness, something she's taken care to do up until that point. It bespeaks a measure of trust that she allows the Inquisitor to see her so—in her grief, as well as in her loss of position.

Because Bastien's death is a terrible loss for Vivienne socially as well as personally. Bastien's son will inherit his estate, and whether Vivienne is allowed to go on living there will be entirely at his discretion. Perhaps he will permit her to stay, but she cannot count upon his grace, nor upon the protection she enjoyed with Bastien any longer; and furthermore if she is allowed to stay, it will be a favor to her, making her beholden rather than granting her greater influence. She won't have the dignity of being Bastien's widow; she is his mistress, and respected as that position may be in the Orlesian court, it gives her no true claim to his family.

Vivienne is about to lose everything she has built for herself.

Without Bastien, without Celene, she will be left with… what? The position of First Enchanter to a Circle that no longer exists? If her own best-case scenario occurs and the rebellion is halted and the Circles are reinstated, then she still loses all the freedom she has gained and is forced to return to a Circle tower herself—a sphere in which, as previously discussed, she holds less influence than she would like the Inquisitor to believe. Even if she remains First Enchanter, it's hard to see this as anything but a massive step down in the social hierarchy, the beginning of a long slide into what the Fade reveals as her greatest fear: irrelevance.

It's a humiliation that Vivienne cannot bear.

This is why she won't leave the Inquisition, no matter how much she may despise the Inquisitor. Vivienne needs the Inquisition far more than she lets on. This even puts the petty low-approval furniture-moving scene into context. Yes, she’s doing it to snub the Inquisitor, but that doesn’t actually gain her anything. I think it’s deeper than that. The Inquisition was Vivienne’s fallback plan, and it’s not going well. The Inquisitor is making her look bad, she is finding no avenue to further advancement here, but she can’t leave. So, her response is to try to reclaim some sense of control over her life, asserting a kind of power she had at Bastien’s estate and was likely denied in the Circle: control over her own space.

Even if Bastien were to live a bit longer, Vivienne really has nowhere higher she can climb in the Imperial Court. She can't become a noble herself. She can't marry Bastien, or any other noble for that matter, because she is a mage. And I'm sure she's highly aware of this fact. Bastien is several years a widower himself; it is not his former marriage that prevents him from marrying her, now. It is her status as a mage which bars her from entering a noble family, legally, socially, politically. That Bastien never seems to have raised the question at all speaks to the fact that no matter how much he may have stuck his neck out for Vivienne, there was a line even he was not interested in crossing.

So where does she have to go from here?

Along comes the nascent Inquisition. Shaking things up. If any organization could rattle the gilded walls of the Chantry, it's this one.

Why not take a stab at the Chantry, at this point? What does she have to lose?

It didn’t really sink in for me for several playthroughs because she isn't wearing cleric's garb, but Bastien's sister Marcelline, who visits Skyhold after his death with Bastien’s son? She's a grand cleric. One of the surviving grand clerics who will decide the next Divine. Vivienne involves the Inquisitor in her plan to save Bastien, a plan she likely knows will fail—but she puts in the effort. She then introduces the Inquisitor to Grand Cleric Marcelline, having told her how the Inquisitor came to her aid. Marcelline expresses gratitude: “Madame de Fer has told us what great trials you faced, trying to save my poor brother’s life.” Bastien’s son Laurent is a powerful ally in his own right, now a member of the Council of Heralds, but also likely the one who will decide whether Vivienne keeps her suite in the Ghislain estate.

And if the conversation goes well, Vivienne tells the Inquisitor that it was "quite the triumph." If the Inquisitor expresses confusion, she patiently explains the influence that both Laurent and Marcelline wield, and that they have now secured the trust of both. If Vivienne becomes Divine, Marcelline’s favor no doubt goes a long way in getting her there.

Of course Vivienne will continue to take a conservative position on the mage question. A mage looking to insinuate herself into the Chantry hierarchy would have to, just as a mage seeking the freedom to consort with the court would have to. In the same way that a Hawke with aspirations of seizing the vacant seat of Kirkwall's Viscount must side with the templars at the end to show the nobility that they represent stability and order, the Chantry's first mage cleric must be pro-Circle, pro-templar, conservative to the bone. Vivienne seems to recognize this as far more important than actually appearing devout. It's also fascinating to me how little she bothers to make any pretense of a personal faith, instead always discussing the Chantry as an important social institution and political body. And this attitude doesn't seem to impede her chances at the Sunburst Throne very much, no more so than being a mage already would.

Vivienne knows exactly what she's doing. She always has.

Vivienne comes to the Inquisition seeking power and influence in the Chantry because her position among the nobility is falling apart. Whether she comes in with the intention to reach for the Sunburst throne itself is debatable, and I personally think it might have been the intent that she does have that ambition but seeks to let the Inquisitor think it was their own idea, though I'm iffy on how successful that is if it was the intent. Nonetheless, I do believe that Vivienne comes to the Inquisition with the intent to seek influence within the Chantry, realizing that the recent upheaval may offer her a unique opportunity to do so. And depending on how closely the Inquisitor aligns with her goals, she may succeed quite dramatically.

References

Codex Entry: Madame de Fer

Talking with Vivienne at Haven and Skyhold

Vivienne's high disapproval scene

After Bastien's death

Banter with Cole

Banter with Dorian

The World of Thedas vol. 2, pp. 235-239 (hardcover edition)

Dragon Age: The Masked Empire, p. 31 (paperback edition)

#vivienne #madame de fer #dragon age meta #dragon age inquisition #the masked empire #asunder #bastien de ghislain #blunders of thedas #ask anne #thedas politics

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kirstinetheartist · 11 months

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Finally got the bark-eater's nose right 🌿

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systlin · 10 months

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So I'm reading Masked Empire 50 years late and literally everyone in this book is a total piece of shit except for Briala.

Frothing mad that I can't play Inquisition and just burn the Winter Palace to the ground with Gaspard and Celene and Michel de fuckin Douchebag inside it

#This is an orlais hate blog #I want all these assholes to Die #Masked Empire #Really tapping my roots as a dragon age blog lmao

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exhausted-archivist · 5 months

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In regard to my last reblog, I kinda want to expand on it.

The novels are 100% optional flavour text. They aren't required for you to really understand what is happening in the world. With the exception of Asunder, that one for me is a bit of a grey area but that is only because it covers aspects of two companions (Cole and Vivienne) that are glossed over and is rehashed entirely in an aspect by another companion's personal quest (Cassandra's).

Not even World of Thedas, the lore books are required because a big chunk of them are put in the game as codices. And the character stuff that's not? That's also flavour text and the fact that Leliana doesn't share background reports on your companions or you can't find them is a missed opportunity in utilizing Leliana. The whole "Game" aspect of Orlesian politics could have also been better incorporated through Josephine and Vivienne.

This is long so... cut.

But TLDR: Nothing is mandatory. World of Thedas, Asunder, and Masked Empire are just under utilized flavour text. They better not do the same or worse with Tevinter Nights.

We know they cut Cole from having Evangelina and Rhys appear for his personal quest and instead we got that weird thing with Varric and Solas being disagreeing dads on nature vs nurture. Rhys and Evangeline, but more so Rhys, are so important to Cole's background that I feel they could have brought them on with a little codex or preamble and it would have worked fine. They could have touched more on Cole's fear of becoming a demon again, his sense of identity and self, and even explored his whole concept of "helping" and his unique brand of compassion - because really Cole's form of compassion is a little off the beaten path.

But, that isn't because Asunder is mandatory, but because Cole isn't well anchored to begin with. They don't really explore him as a spirit/demon, they mostly use him as a way to tell you about other characters, and he's really wishy washy on even establishing what happened at the White Spire or with Seeker Lambert and just gives these sort of teasing/tantalizing starting points.

Which leads into a weak point with Vivienne. She has issue with how the war started. She has issue with the vote. She has issue with everything that happened with the White Spire. Which again, isn't explored and is just flippantly mentioned in banter with Cole or when she's snarking at Fiona.

We know she has issue with the vote because it was made when everyone was already dealing with Circles falling and templars killing people and extremist mages were killing other mages that opposed them. The vote was made not by people who were elected by the Circles - not entirely. They were made by whoever happened to get to Andoral's Reach and it was very much an emergency vote. She wasn't there for the vote and that's the start of the issue for her. Which, understandably this was written before Vivienne even existed, but with that they never resolve why she wasn't there for the vote or even aware of the chaos of the Circles. You kind of guess it's because of Bastien's health but yeah not really clear.

Both Cole and Vivienne's stories would be better anchored as well as give the Mage Templar war and the factions with in it more nuance if they even tried to incorporate the cliff notes of Asunder. It would also make it more of a flavour text and less of this murky grey area.

Which to make it even more murky and grey, Cassandra's whole plot of discovering the reversal to tranquility? Yeah that was discovered by a tranquil mage at the request of Divine Justinia. Literally every circle mage and Chantry person (of a certain rank) knows of its existence. Which they cheekily hide in ambient dialogue between Mother Giselle and another cameo character from Cassandra's past, Avexis. An elven mage who was turned tranquil because of the danger from her abilities to not only control small creatures but dragons.

That story Cassandra is known for? The dragons attacking the Grand Cathedral? Avexis was involved with that. Whole big thing in Dawn of the Seeker. But I digress.

Mother Giselle and Avexis talk about the reversal to tranquility in Haven. Everyone already knows but Cassandra's personal quest misleads you cause she's so pikachu-faced about discovering that there was a reversal and the Seeker's knew about it. Only half of the information should be new to her, the rest everyone knew about for a year and could have been beautifully folded into her story as to not only her mixed feelings on how she didn't feel as close to Justinia as Leliana was - because Leliana was in on it and Cassandra wasn't even aware that the Divine requested this happen behind the Seeker's back in 9:35 Dragon.

It would have been a great point to fold into the story to not only give more context to Cassandra questioning the Order but also feeling out of control and lost. Honesty would have been a good point in tension for her and Leliana to have.

But instead Cole goes largely explained, Vivienne is under explored and barely connected to the Mage Templar War conflict, and Cassandra is a (in my opinion) much less interesting rehash of something most people connected to the Chantry and Circles already knew for the most part.

Asunder is less required reading and more of discarded world building that amounts to a lot of missed opportunities.

Something I think that Tevinter Nights is at risk of if not worse. Either under utilized world building or they go full tilt in the wrong direction and it becomes the first required reading.

Specifically reading, because the first required additional media is the Legacy DLC of which they yoinked Corypheus and the whole start of the red templars from. And then again with Tresspasser which establishes and reveals so much vital information for the next game. Both DLCs, I think should have/be updated to free. Especially since it's been so long and they are required for the story now. And any "well players had to pay for them previously" is bs because new players can get the whole trilogy on sale for like 15USD. Deluxe editions included so they come with the DLCs - except for DA2.

Asunder and DLCs aside, lemme now circle back to the whole World of Thedas/Leliana and co thing.

The thing that grinds my gears about the World of Thedas bits is that a large part of them... are written to Leliana as reports. In game Leliana talks about doing background checks - how she isn't thorough enough with Solas because there wasn't enough time and more pressing things were coming. He slipped through the cracks. But everyone else? She got dirt on. Sera included. Leliana could have been a great vector to not only divulge more flavour text lore of our companions, but it could have also given us more aspects of conversation. How do they feel knowing Leliana gave us reports? Is sera annoyed because of the questions you can now ask? Is Blackwall sweaty because you might know details he doesn't? Does Iron Bull want to compare notes and see how good Leliana's network is?

There was so much they could have done with Leliana to not only make her more involved but made us more involved with the characters. It would have lead to more interactive story telling and folded in making the meta knowledge less meta as our Inquisitor actually used the resources of our spymaster.

Still, not required reading, but a way to fold in all the world building you've done to make the characters feel more real and give us a chance to bond with them. Even if we can't talk to them about it because "leaving it open ended for headcanons".

This also goes into how "The Game" is under utilized in Inquisition. So much of Inquisition is telling vs showing us or letting us experience something. Having more scenes where we walk in on Josephine dealing with combative knowledge, using our origins and background perks to play the game introduces us to the concept of Orlesian politics and perhaps we get perks - more soldiers, resources, gold, higher starting approval at the Winter Palace. Something that has more relevance to us and folds in this supposed system all of Orlais is beholden to.

A similar system could have also been used with Vivienne. Whether she was hosting nobles or if she wanted to gossip with you over a letter she received that she thinks could be of use to you if you know how to properly use The Game. It would have also been interesting if it impacted the noble npcs hanging out in the hall, if it became weighted depending on just how good you were. Less Orlesians meaning less support from Orlais and more reliance on other nations to legitimize the Inquisition. More Orlesians? A stronger army, more standing with the court and the Chantry, more ammunition for when you're dealing with Celene and Gaspard in the Winter Palace. Things like that. Simple story threads that didn't really need to go anywhere but perhaps impacted the ambient state.

It would have helped tie in Masked Empire and give it more weight (and also make Michel de Chevin be more than the rando the Imshael maybe killed).

Just saying... It's just under utilized world building in an interactive media.

#Archi is yelling #dragon age #bioware critical #bioware writing critical #dragon age inquisition #dai #asunder #world of thedas #the masked empire #tevinter nights #cole #vivienne #madam de fer #leliana #josephine #long post

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