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needserotonindealer · 2 years

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Connectinon Between Childhood Trauma and Enneagram

I've decided to share some of the stuff I learned about the childhood experience of all Enneagram types, and how this experience shapes us into a certain type. All this is based on some of my observations and studies plus backed up with some info from the books: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon and The Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

And do keep in mind that it’s just a general pattern and observation - while it’s a lot more common for a certain type to have such a childhood experince, nothing is set in stone.

Type 1

A person could have been shaped into a One based on the experience from their early childhood where they had strict and controlling parents, which from early childhood showed the little One that they have to be responsible person, that is more mature than their peers:

Early in life, One had a painful experience of feeling criticized. When this happened, he felt pressured to conform to others’ standards of good behavior. One unconsciously tried to cope with the pain of feeling judged and punished by proactively monitoring and criticizing himself before others had a chance to. He internalized the standards others applied to him and tried to be good and do the right thing all the time. He began to feel that he had to be perfect to be seen as worthy and that he had to work hard to control himself in order to be “good.”

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Alternatively, One could have had Incompetent, naive, and/or immature parents, which showed the little 1 that they are incapable of taking care of them, so this child had to grow up too early, and become the “adult one” themselves. Type One is part of the Frustration triad, which was dissatisfied with their parental figures. They could also have been frustrated with too many rules in the family, so they developed their own vision of how things should be:

The disconnection from the protective figure, and what that person symbolized, was of central importance to the development of the superego: these children felt that they could not rely on the structure and guidelines provided by their family of origin. They may have experienced the rules of the family as arbitrary and unfair, or too strict, or too unstable. Whatever the particulars, Ones were dissatisfied and frustrated with the structure and limits that they received from the protective-figure and so felt that they had to develop their own guidelines.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Type 2

All the attention and focus of type Two goes towards love and care because, as children, they felt unloved, not needed and uncared about (which is more of the case with an unhealthy childhood experience).

As Two grew up, she experienced bad feelings when some of her needs weren’t met by the people around her. Sometimes when she was hungry, no one came to feed her. Sometimes when she got hurt, no one realized she needed comfort. And when she felt her deep need for love, she often felt that she did not receive it. Two tried to find the love she needed by expressing love for the people around her. She tried to get them to take care of her by taking care of them. If she was very pleasing, helpful, and supportive of others, she thought, they would want to be very pleasing, helpful, and supportive of her. They might remember to take care of her. To get the love she needed so much, Two found herself doing all she could to please the people in her world.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Alternatively, type Twos could have been slightly more connected to the protective figure, as opposed to the more nurturing one, or they may have grown up without a nurturing figure altogether. So Twos learned to take up on a role of a nurturing figure themselves.

Since the orientation is toward the protective figure who represents the qualities associated with patriarchy— authority, structure, discipline, guiding the child in the ways of the world—the child began to identify with the complementary, matriarchal role. Young Twos learned to become "little nurturers" as a way of gaining safety and security in the family system. In other words, they believed that if they could nurture others in their family sufficiently, they could win the affection and protection of the protective-figure. This relationship with the protective figure sets the stage for a similar orientation toward everyone who can give Twos the love they want.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Type 3

The strong impulse to achieve, be better and be praised that type Three craves stems from their childhood experience, where they were only (or mostly) loved and given attention when they somehow stood out from their peers, particularly for their accomplishments.

Three saw that she was praised for what she did, not for who she was. Everyone around her got very excited and happy when she successfully completed her homework, or did a trick in gymnastics, or won a game. But when she expressed her true emotions, when she felt sad or disappointed or hurt, no one paid any attention to her at all. She felt lonely and scared when no one recognized her or cared about what she expressed from her heart. People seemed to like her when she accomplished things; but they acted as if she didn’t exist when she was just being herself. Three found a way to make sure that she wouldn’t feel alone or fearful anymore. She discovered that she had the ability to sense what people valued and then magically turn herself into exactly that.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Alternatively, Threes are also part of an Attachment triad because they were very connected to the mother (or the mother figure) - basically, anyone that praises and admires them, showers them with gifts and compliments, and they got so attached to this person from early childhood that they learned to act in a way that will receive this positive affirmation.

As young children, Threes were connected to the nurturing figure, the person who in their early development mirrored them, cared for them, and provided affection and a sense of the Three's personal value. This person is usually the Three's mother or a mother-substitute, but not always. In some cases, the mother may have been largely absent, physically or emotionally, and it fell upon the father or a sibling to nurture the baby. In other cases, a nanny or grandparent may have fulfilled this role. In any case, it is important to understand that the nurturing figure is the person who cared for the child and who provided mirroring. In their formative years, Threes learn to tune in to the desires and hopes of their nurturing-figure. As adults, Threes continue to play out this pattern learned in early childhood. They seek out people whom they admire and esteem to give them validation and admiration.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Type 4

As young children, type Four felt a loss of connection with their parents. Similar to type Two, they felt that they were unloved and not needed, but unlike Twos that were ambivalent to their parental figures, Fours felt completely disconnected from them. Moreover, type Fours started to believe (or were even directly told) that the parents are no longer connected and appreciate them because of the Four's fault, that they are somehow to blame. Maybe they were a child of a younger couple that has the kid too early and then blamed the Four, maybe claiming that them being born ruined all the opportunities for these now-parents. Four could have also started to think on their own that since the parents no longer like and care for them as much, then there must be something wrong with them, that they are not like everyone else.

Fours are disconnected from both parents. As children, they did not identify with either their mothers or their fathers. ("I am not like my mother; I am not like my father.") They may have had either unhappy or solitary childhoods as a result of their parents' marital problems, divorce, illness, or simply because of personality conflicts within the family.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Even more often there could have been a sibling rivalry in the family, where Four was the older sibling, and all the attention was given to their younger sister(s)/brother(s) while they felt abandoned, so they felt the need to somehow stand out to be noticed.

A baby was born. It was as if Four’s perfect world ended. No longer was she the center of her parents’ attention. No longer was she the most special child in the world. When she wanted someone to play with or a hug, everyone was busy taking care of the baby. She felt unimportant, alone, and ordinary. Four made sense of this terrible new situation by believing that she must have done something wrong to cause the loss of connection with her parents. After all, they didn’t seem to care about her the way they did before. It must have been her fault. They must have discovered there was something wrong with her. This new baby must somehow be better. What other explanation could there be? Four’s new way of thinking caused her some pain and distress, but gradually she got used to feeling bad—and sad. And, she reasoned, if it was her fault that she had lost the connection she had once felt—maybe that meant she could do something to make things right. Maybe she could somehow make a connection with others and the world again by showing everyone how special she was— or by making them see how much she was suffering by acknowledging that she wasn’t as special as she had thought. Over time, Four tried different ways to rebuild the connection she had lost. She tried to get people to see her as special again.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Type 5

In their early childhood, Type Fives felt an almost smothering influence of their parents: they could have been way too involved in the lives of their child, too clingy, giving them little to no privacy, and constantly invading their personal space, leaving too little room for Fives to withdraw and be left alone. That is what developed a Withdrawal stance in type Fives, as they started to realize that if they will let other people way too close, that they start to get too overly involved in other people’s lives they will also start to lose that independence and will again be overwhelmed with people’s attention and demands. So Fives learned to not only minimize their needs but to also avoid investing in a lot of relationships.

When she was young, Five tried to create true heartfelt connections with people. However, those people had a tendency to invade her space when she felt like being alone. And then they weren’t around when she really wanted them to be. Both intrusion and unavailability were a cause of constant concern for Five, which made it hard for her to know what to do to relate well to others, especially when she felt intruded upon or neglected. She secretly felt inadequate and different from others. Trying to find ways to connect with them just frustrated her. Again and again, people either left her when she felt she needed them or they didn’t allow her to be alone enough. As time went on, Five finally gave up and disconnected more and more from others and from her feelings. Five found she felt calm and comfortable when she spent time by herself.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Not only that but too much care and attention from parents, and their clinginess made Five think that they are caring so much because the parents think that Five is incompetent and incapable to deal with their own problems, and Fives also start to believe that as well. So they started to gather knowledge and hone skills to be safe in the world and to be able to deal with problems that could arise.

Type 6

Since their early childhood Sixes were either were constantly told that the world is a dangerous place and people are unreliable, to the point that parents almost instilled fear in them: “the monsters are hiding under your bed”, “I will tell a police to come to get you if you will behave inappropriately” etc or the Sixes experienced a traumatic or life-threatening event which made them think that they always have to be careful, that the wolves are after them, things can easily go wrong, so the Six child always has to be cautious.

As Six grew up, she had a few experiences that made her feel afraid. Her mother once forgot to pick her up at school. She was frightened by a movie that showed people being killed. She started noticing all the things that could go wrong and learned that sometimes bad things happened. The world started seeming more dangerous and more threatening to her. Six became paralyzed with fear and doubt. She wanted to feel safe and carefree as she had before, but that didn’t seem possible. The world seemed like a fundamentally dangerous place. The only thing that seemed to help was to imagine all the bad things that could happen so that she could make sure they didn’t. But any feeling of safety that brought her was only temporary.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Alternatively, Sixes may also have a strong and protective father figure, on which they relied the most, who protected them. So losing the support of such a strong father figure and being left alone in a scary world was especially terrifying for Sixes, hence why they became the Attachment type that seeks to build connections to feel safer, like with their protective figure from childhood.

As the result of their formative experiences, Sixes became connected with their protective-figures. The protective-figure was the adult in the child's early environment who provided guidelines, structure, and sometimes discipline. This was the person who occupied the traditional patriarchal position in the family. Most often this was their fathers, or a father figure, such as a grandfather or teacher, but in many cases the mother or an older sibling may actually be the protective-figure. As children, Sixes wanted the security of approval by their protective-figures, and felt anxious if they did not receive it. As they grew up, their connection with their protective-figure shifted to an identification with substitutes for this person, such as civil authorities or belief systems from which they could obtain security.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Type 7

From early childhood, Sevens felt rejected by the parental figures the same way Fours may have, but while Fours felt that parents didn’t connect to them because there is something wrong with them, that the Four is somehow to blame, Sevens felt that parents were way too busy with their life and work to pay as much attention to Sevens as they may have wanted. Sometimes, parents may have even brushed them off when the Seven was in need or pain, or the parent’s indifference to the child caused the Seven that pain, so they learned to avoid the hurtful feelings as much as possible.

One day, when Seven was paying close attention to a bee that was walking on his leg, it stung him! He burst into tears and looked around for someone to comfort him. He tried to tell his father about it and perhaps receive some comfort, but his father was angry about something and told him to “go away.” So he went to his mother, but she was busy doing something and said she “didn’t have time” to hear about something so insignificant. These responses made Seven feel even more pain—almost more than he could handle.

Seven hadn’t had much experience with pain, and he didn’t like it. So, to get away from these unpleasant sensations, he retreated into his own imagination. He started thinking about things that made him excited—watching clouds as they passed through the sky or playing with his best friend. In fact, Seven found that he was good at imagining fun and interesting things. As time went on, he became adept at diverting his attention to these thoughts whenever any kind of pain threatened him.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Alternatively, Sevens may have encountered a serious trauma as a kid, that made them feel like they would be deprived of something, so to avoid fear of being deprived they started to adopt a more gluttonous attitude, fearing that what they need to survive may be taken away from them.

Some other childhood deprivation, such as poverty, war, being orphaned, or a long illness, may have shaken their expectation that the good things of life would be given to them. There may have been an absence of the nurturing-figure at a critical stage, or some accident that shook the child's faith that he or she would be adequately supported. It may also be that Sevens naturally need a great deal of contact and stimulation which may be more than the nurturing-figure can provide. Thus, for whatever reasons, the fear of deprivation becomes the fundamental motivation for this personality type.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Type 8

Type Eight’s childhood experience may resemble one of type Six, where they felt or made believe that the world is dangerous, and people are out to get them. However while Sixes developed a more neurotic and cautious stance, thinking that they will be safe if they have someone to rely on or an ideology/law to follow, type Eight decided that they will be safe if they become strong and could face these challenges themselves, without relying on anyone. Moreover, while Sixes may have had a protective figure that could defend them when needed, Eights felt no protection from their parental figures, or sometimes these parental figures may have been abusive themselves.

Early in life, Eight had an experience in which she needed protection and there was no one there to take care of her. Sometimes there were things she just couldn’t do by herself, even though she was bright and capable for someone so young. The people in her life that were bigger than she was didn’t seem to notice when she needed to be cared for, listened to, or fed. And a few times, when one of the older kids hurt her, no one saw that she was little and needed protection. So Eight learned—the hard way—that she had to take care of herself. If no one else was going to do it, it would have to be her job. She would have to get big—fast! (Too fast.) She would have to be strong. She would have to be powerful, even though she was still small. Sometimes people around her fought, and they didn’t notice she was scared. So she would have to be fearless, in addition to being big, and strong, and powerful.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Also, Eight could have had the opposite childhood experience from Twos, where Twos had a stronger protective figure so they had to become the nurturer, Eights had a stronger nurturing figure, so they decided that they need to become the protective figure themselves.

Eights learned that they could maintain some kind of connection with the nurturing-figure and fit into the family system by functioning in a role that was complementary to the nurturing-figure. The nurturing-figure represented (and therefore "owned") the qualities associated with motherhood: warmth, caring, nurturance, approval, gentleness, and sensitivity. Thus, the Eight identified with the complementary patriarchal role, and learned that the best way to get some sense of value, affection, and nurturance was to be "the strong one," the little protector, the one that others turn to for strength and guidance, especially in a crisis.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

Type 9

At some point in their childhood, Nines felt that their desires, wishes and opinions are not important or listened to. When they tried to express what they wanted, their parents may have shut that desire off, bruising it aside, or choosing for them under the pretence that they know better. At first, Nine could have protested against that, but when they started to understand that the more they protest the more arguments and conflicts it will cause, damaging their relationship with the parents, the more they began thinking that maybe what they want is not worth all the drama and discord that disrupts their inner peace. Instead, it was better to go along with what others wanted, and find comfort in other parts of life.

Nine woke up one day feeling alone and disconnected. He felt frustrated at having been left by himself and wanted to register a protest against whoever had pushed him out on his own. But this made him even more uncomfortable. There were others nearby, but they seemed somehow distant. This new sense of being separate felt lonely and scary. If he was no longer connected to the world around him, how could he feel any sense of belonging? When Nine tried to complain about this new and disturbing situation in order to re-establish his connection with others, no one would listen. Those around him spoke louder and had more important things to say. They knew what they wanted and argued to get it. They didn’t seem bothered by the fact that they were separate—and that their arguing made them more so. They didn’t seem to care what Nine was saying. He tried speaking louder and protesting more, but no one paid attention. After a while, he simply gave up. If they weren’t going to listen, he might as well go back to sleep. At least there was comfort in sleep.

From: Enneagram Guide to Waking Up by Beatrice Chestnut.

Alternatively, Nines could have lived in a very intense or unhealthy environment, that damaged them emotionally. So in order to keep their peace and sanity in one piece, they learned to numb their feelings, to protect themselves.

If their early childhood was torn by strife and dysfunction, holding all of the painful and conflicted feelings and messages inside them was almost intolerable, so average to unhealthy Nines learned to dissociate—to remove themselves from the immediacy of their feelings and thoughts so that the inner turmoil they absorbed did not overwhelm them. At the same time, they learned to tune out the conflicts and pain of the external environment, a strategy familiar to many children. This is like the young person who blocks out the sound of her parents fighting in another room by singing a song to herself or remembering happier time.

From: Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Richard Riso & Russ Hudon.

#enneagram #enneagram 1 #enneagram 2 #enneagram 3 #enneagram 4 #enneagram 5 #enneagram 6 #enneagram 7 #enneagram 8 #enneagram 9

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indigoatari · 1 year

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please explain to me what the deal is with chonny jash i am fascinated

oh my friend you have olled away the rock the tomb has been unsealed,

Chonny's Charming Chaos Compendium is a cover album of Tally Hall songs, in the same way Everything Everywhere All At Once is about a woman trying to do her taxes. the full thing is available on youtube and spotify. even solely superficially, it's super interesting, because it's not like, karaoke over the song's musical track, it's like. Redone. new sounds. same song, same tune, but still completely reupholstered. if you like jhariah or will wood, this is like tally hall if you seasoned it to make it sound like them.

HOWEVER.

the instrumentals are NOT the only thing that changed-- he also REWRITES THE LYRICS. he's a VERY clever lyricist, even if hes still definitely drawing from the original. but in doing so he's creating an underlying story, and in tying it all together it starts becoming clear.

CCCC is about Chonny Jash, the artist in question, going through such a bad mental health episode that he manages to split his brain in three. be aware, it's not explicitly anything-- it could be about plurality, it could be about depersonalization, or it could just be a metaphor about self conflict. but the bottom line is, where there was once one there is now THREE, and none of them want to be here.

the bulk of the album is the three of them singing and songwriting and arguing with each other. Mind Electric is the left brain, the logical side, and the only one with a distinctive voice-- he has a distinctly robotic, modulated voice. he also talks like a disney villain.

his counterpart is Heart Acoustic! the right brain, the emotional side, and the most visually distinctive of the three-- he's the chap with the blindfold and the wings and he's a bit of a miserable mess. if mind is the voice in your head who berates you for not getting things done, heart is the voice in your head panicking about the long term impact.

that being said: neither of them are inherenty the Good Guy or the Bad Guy. they are equals, and they cannot lives without each other, and they are constantly committing war crimes. the first thiiiird? of the album is the two of them bitching and bitching and bitching and

number three is my favorite and he shows up in like the last half of the album: the Soul Eclectic. you can't really argue if Heart or Mind are id or superego, but Soul is unquestionably the ego in the triad. he moderates and also keeps Heart and Mind from killing each other. and plays guitar. he's skrunkly

that being said. it is about a depressive episode. all three of them kind of want to die. Soul is absolutely not opposed to it. they have explicitly discussed this. i cannot emphasize enough, the entire album is about an absolute mental low, and that's kind of what keeps it interesting. the three of them are one person at his absolute worst, and they are so filled with loathing for the Others that is really just kind of... loathing of the self. take all of that on top of the fact they are in a time loop.

the three of them are trapped in an infinite cycle of dissolution and reconstitution. they will always eventually synthesize and make it out of the misery pit only to fall back apart into the same patterns and arguments and PEOPLE. they cant catch a break man!!!!!!

i have SEVERE autism about it and so does my girlboybestie @julystruck. the full album is here, but if you're just trying to lean into it, i fully recommend the whole twelve minutes of The Mind Electric along with the lyrics analysis to get a grip on the characters, and then Mucka Blucka and The Bidding for basic dynamics. and feel free to ask me about literally anything and giving me an excuse to write an essay when i COULD be writing an essay about the progressive era,

#sonder over yonder #ask indigo #AUGH #chonny jash #its like what edgelords wanted sanders sides to be i will be real

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kendrixtermina · 2 years

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An attempt at an actually good explanation of the head types

Let the takeaway be this: Curiosity, imagination & inquisitiveness is a shared characteristic between all of them.

With some 6 it gets shut down cause they get too bogged down in anxiety or superego correctness, kinda like those really numbed-out 3s sometimes, but the natural disposition is curious & imaginative as well. I mean, how would you concoct all those worst case scenarious without at least latent imagination?

Same for a tendency to want to analyze, understand and "track" what's happening, automatically looking for patterns. Also sometimes characterized as the funny triad, though, ive met some plenty funny 9s and 8s.

Another thing to note is that its not just "logic" that lives here but speculative imagination, future planning & conceptual thinking. What is logic but imagination that is disciplined by rules?

This is especially worth keeping in mind when you consider mbti combinations - ovsly Ts will be more overtly intellectual, Fs might show the imagination side more or be drawn to humanities-related concepts such as art, sociology, psychology... - though of course, both can have both. A xSFx who is a 6 will be more 'concepty' than a 9, in that sense that's a well-balanced combo.

All three tend not be noted for their perceptiveness, but immature individuals can also share the possible weakness of thinking their noggin is god's gift to mankind. (though the 6s are less obviously braggarts to avoid being targeted - more like, "people who share my politics are smart" or "its just common sense")

The fact that scary situations can stimulate planning is kind of an interesting hint at how the capacity for imagination evolved. With all 3 you can see a tendency to 'speed up' if something unforeseen happens that distinguishes them from the other triads, though it shows somewhat differently in each of them.

Now I have no clue about this at all as I don't really pick up on that sort of thing, but another commonality you sometimes hear mentioned which sounds kinda fascinating is a tendency for the eyes sometimes not quite match the rest of the expression or a lot of the expressiveness being in the eyes generally. Like someone acting aggro or cheery but you can tell from the eyes they're inwardly freaked out, or that's how I've heard it described.

So, now that we've established the commonalities and that no single one of them is "the" learning interested type, how do you nail which one you are? For this, it pays to keep in mind both the specific thinking style as well as the temperament that typically goes with it.

Soo... what kind of information can't you get enough of?

7 - the latest new stuff that is full of cool, exciting possibilities. Novelty, technological innovation, avantgardistic art & fashion, anything exciting adventurous & cool, working on a new project or skill every couple of months. Often very good at quick thinking, improvising, and talking people into almost anything. - this is most often an extrovert and usually an active, optimistic, confident, fun-loving and dynamic but not always all that reliable or responsible person. ~ sort of like an inventor or explorer who sees the potential in things. As a thinking style, it's the most associative & open ended, considering how all the multiple frameworks available could be used to solve your problem. Quick at concocting new plans on the spot. Like a mind map or web of loosely connected concepts. Focussed on securing good outcomes, can get anxious that they're not gonna get those good things. Tends to assume they're going to win, sometimes to the point of overconfidence or denial. Tends to discard ideas that are no longer useful or entertaining them & look for ever newer & better ones.

6 - keeping up with politics & important happenings, what is going on with the people in your circle, not missing any potential dangers or important developments, tests & questions everything not easily fooled by scams, looks for the truth behind everything & its trustwortiness - most often introvert but still somewhat sociable, but extrovert is possible - character wise, can be sceptical, argumentative, and a big worrier but also likeable, perseverant, funny, brave, and good team players. - a bit like a detective or journalist, looking for truths. As a thinking style, it's systematic and context-sensitive. Information is related to relationships, morals, political contexts, power dynamics etc. and categorizing things - but not in a simplistic way, but with awareness of how categories can intersect or contradict each other. Like building a map or grid. Focussed on preventing bad outcomes, can get anxious about those bad things happening. Tends to expect a struggle, sometimes to the point of overpreparation or combativeness. Tends to be concerned with whether to adopt or resist ideas, which should be adopted & which resisted, which are "correct" or "certain".

5 - indiscriminately retains all manner of unrelated random stuff just because, for its own sake. Will obsess endlessly over and absorb every last detail about anything that personally interests them even if its something totally obscure, completely theoretical, gross/disturbing, esoteric or of no practical use. Usually very strongly introverted. Blunt, cynical, eccentric and rather sensitive in disposition, but since they're so reclusive they can tend to be known only as "that weirdo who only talks about [current obsession]" - like a collector or philosopher. As a thinking style, its about looking for contrasts, underlying principles, and to try to look at things from as much of an unbiased perspective as possible. Like a decision tree or filing cabinet. Doesn't tie themselves to particular outcomes but rather to anticipate what's going to happen & how to navigate it. Can get anxious that they can't deal with what's coming. Tends to have low expectations, sometimes to the point of being defeatist or doomerism. Rather than rely on outside ideas, try to synthesize their own version, phrasing everything in their own words.

Addendum: I find a lot of confusions come from shared traits in triads being more emphasized in some of the typical descriptions - that's how you get 9s and 5s landing on 4, 6s landing on other reactives, and 6 and 7 landing on 5.

Doesn't help that there's been this shift in the later authos to discuss mostly the temperament for 7 and 6, but you gotta dig out palmer, maitri or naranjo to learn what that actually makes them mental types, whereas with 5, the nerd stuff stayed but all the specifity was lost in regards temperament - The defeatism angle alone would sort out all the mistyped 6s and 3s real quick if it was more emphasized.

Maybe this is in part cause 6 and 7 have roughly even F/T ratio whereas 5 somewhat skews toward T, though by far not as much as 8 or 1, or as much as 4 and 2 do the reverse.

#enneagram #7w8 #7w6 #6w7 #6w5 #5w6 #5w4 #enneagram 7 #enneagram 6 #enneagram 5

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indepth-mbti · 11 months

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First of all your Instagram posts are the best. I learn more about mbti and enneagram from you guys than from any other website. Anyway my situation is as follows: I'm kind of confused. My first mistype was Istp because of a test I took in quarantine for Covid and all my life I considered myself quite introverted. But now I am Entj? Regarding cognitive functions I always had Se and Ni between first and second place and I knew I was never the emotional type.

The most I can say is that I never followed the rules. Since I was little if I was told not to run the first thing I did was run and all in an immediate and natural way. I had a great imagination, all the time it was dreaming about what I could do. Even the reasons I couldn't concentrate on what I was doing was because I was thinking about what I would do next. As a child I wanted to have fun. Clearly I grew up, changed schools and became somewhat closed off. I was one of the best students because of my intelligence and I was always looking to get good grades. I was one of those "heartless" people who received a secret love letter, tore it up right away and threw it away in front of everyone and topics like love I always dismissed, there were times when I might like someone but having a partner was not a priority and I let the feeling just disappear.

With Entj's stereotype of being a leader I felt quite identified because I unconsciously always assumed the role of leader in any group. Actually I let a colleague be the team leader but I find it very funny that whenever they refer to our team they always think that I am the boss, I am only dedicated to organize the contents of the work. Another detail is that everything I do now is for a future that I want to achieve. I am one of those people who say to myself: "You have to work hard, you have to keep trying to be the best, if you keep doing that you will achieve what you want". Since I was little I was told that the world was a competition and although it was shocking I understood it perfectly. I'm a little bad at details, for example: making a mistake in an exam question by thinking and answering too fast without paying attention to what they were really asking for.

Outside of school I am flexible for routines and I try to keep my room in order but it is not my best quality. I consider myself a person capable of engaging in conversation with any group. I know perfectly well that I don't agree on tastes or topics of conversation but I was always able to talk to anyone. In front of adults I assume a position of a totally responsible person, mature (like any other). And with my friends I am quite spontaneous to a certain extent, they know that with topics about school I am extremely serious and focused.

Sorry for the length. It would help me to have some opinion with more experience on the subject. According to the enneagram I am 3w4. But I'm still reading to confirm if this is the case.

I think that Te dom seems correct. I'd say ENTJ but don't dismiss ESTJ. In my Instagram Guides you can find a detailed guide of ENTJ and ESTJ, read both of them and compare the auxiliary dynamics.

According to the Enneagram... you are either E6 or E3. You seem more focused on head triad issues than on image triad issues. But take a look at the hornevian groups according to enneagramer:

E3s belong to the assertive triad: Moving against others, focus on what the self needs/wants, they “demand” needs from others and the world. E3s in general are goal-oriented and based on action.

E6s belong to the superego triad: Moving with others, focus on what others’ need/want, society, “earn” needs. Focus on building a secure environment for all, being “human,” tribes.

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funkymbtifiction · 2 years

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gotta pay attention to wings

Just a reminder that to avoid mistyping, you have to nail down the central energy of your personality, but also your Enneagram wing, because it makes a big difference. This is important when attempting to prove the case for a fictional character being a particular type. You can't call them a 4w5 without there being evidence of both 4 and 5 in their thinking process. And you can't call yourself a 3w4 or a 7w8 or a 2w1 without there being strong evidence for both the core behaviors and the wing in your thought process and behavior.

I often get asked, am I a 9 or a 6? Well, do you also have evidence for 5 and 7 for the 6 (since it WILL have one of those wings?) or 1 or 8 (for the 9)? You are either a 6 who re-frames negativity (more likely to wonder if they are a 9 due to 7 being "positive" in the way that a 9 is "positive), or a 6 who leans into it and doubles down on guarding against being implanted with false information (the 5 wing). You are either a 9w8 who has an angry reaction to everything, or a 9w1 who guilt-trips themselves about anger being "bad" (but is still angry, because the world isn't perfect and I know how it should be!).

Isolating and fixating on something is a problem I see a lot, both within MBTI and the Enneagram. It should be "Do I use Fe and Ti or Fi and Te" and not "what's the difference between Fe and Fi?" You use both, and should be able to find evidence for both, the same as you should be able to find evidence for a wing to accurately determine your type.

Give yourself the time and space to identify those aspects in yourself -- and pay attention to the triads. It's sometimes easier to go -- well, I'm a mixture of assertive and withdrawn; what are the types that have that mix? (Withdrawn - 4, 5, 9. Assertive: 3, 7, 8. Conclusion? 4w3/3w4 and 8w9/9w8. Which am I?) Or I know I have superego and withdrawn (9w1/1w9) or superego and assertive (6w7/7w6 or 2w3/3w2), or I am just flat out superego (1w2/2w1)?

Shortcuts for typing characters/people:

The 1 is superego/competency, with either another superego (2) or a withdrawn wing (9)

The 2 is superego/positive, with either another superego (1) or an assertive wing (3)

The 3 is assertive/competency, with either a superego (2) or a withdrawn wing (4)

The 4 is withdrawn/frustration, with either an assertive (3) or a double-withdrawn/competency wing (5)

The 5 is withdrawn/competency, with either a frustration (4) or an attachment (6) wing

The 6 is attachment/superego, with either a competency/withdrawn (5) or an assertive/frustration (7) wing

The 7 is aggressive/frustration, with either a superego attachment (6) or a double-aggressive/anger-based (8) wing (it's interesting to note that 7s have 'reactive' wings, they are either fear-reactive, or anger-reactive)

The 8 is assertive/reactive, with either another assertive/frustration (7) wing, or an attachment/withdrawn wing (9)

The 9 is withdrawn/attachment, with either a frustration/superego (1) or a assertive/reactive (8) wing.

#enneagram

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ladyday93 · 1 year

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Which teams are you?

Team Superwonder or Team Wonderbat?

Team Merder or Team MerNick

I accept both SuperWonder and WonderBat. I must admit that I do lean a little more towards SuperWonder because of the things that it forces Kal-El to consider about himself and relationships. The recent iterations of Diana (at least the DCAU ones) have her as being open and bold. I'm interested in Diana questioning who she gets when she's with him. It's established that there's Superman. Clark Kent and what is in essence, his secret self, Kal-El. Literally his Superego, Ego and id whereas hers are all pretty much present all the time. She's a warrior. He's a defender, not a warrior or a soldier. The tension of that is fascinating. Her loving freely and openly actually opens him up. Clark's softness is an interesting counterbalance too. I also like that they can be silly together and have fun together, which I almost never see in the stories of the WonderBat pairings.

Some people like the idea of SuperWonderBat. I've found most stories about them as a triad are kinda funny.

Regarding MerDer and MerNick: definitely not a MerNick fan. I don't see it. I don't think he is a good choice and she doing fine. Was not a MerLuca fan either. DeLuca was too young and was basically her and Derek with the roles switched, which did neither any favours.

Derek can be problematic for me because as my older bestie pointed out watching various episodes of various seasons, Derek talked down to Meredith and was dismissive of her. Admittedly he could be that way with others and was called out on it by Meredith, Addison, Callie, Cristina and others. I do believe that towards the end of his run, Derek was becoming more humble and the bastards that the Grey's writers are, gave us some of the best of their relationship right before they killed him off.

I have another older bestie that still clings to MerLex as Endgame. While I think they gave each other the sibling relationship they wish they had growing up, I disagree with them as Endgame.

I did like the idea of Meredith + Callie or Meredith + April or Meredith + Irish guy.

I do believe that towards the end of his run, Derek was becoming more humble and understanding and respectful of the doctor and person Meredith matured into. Just so the bastards that the Grey's writers are, could give us some of the best of their relationship right before they killed him off.

I have another older bestie that still clings to MerLex as Endgame. While I think they gave each other the sibling relationship they wish they had growing up, I disagree with them as Endgame.

I did like the idea of Meredith + Callie or Meredith + April or Meredith + Irish guy as a follow up. But of the two teams-it's MerDer.

#SuperWonder #WonderBat #superwonderbat #Superman #Grey's Anatomy #Meredith Grey #Wonder Woman #Derek Shepherd #MerNick #MerDer #Ask Me Anything #Batman #tv series #DC comics #comics #DCAU

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azenta · 2 years

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Hey I was wondering what each assertive type (3/8/7) has to do with id and how those problems manifested in childhood. You did a post recently defining it with 7 and it was really interesting. I've seen assertive types being associated with the ego but never id before.

It's associated with the id because assertion is implied as acting on whatever desire crosses those types mind. Everything they do is so they get what they want, no matter what people have to say about it. They could be seen as the most selfish ennea types, if we put it in a very simplistic fashion.

So, I’ll resume what the Id concept is to show how it applies to each type. Id is an ego construct in psychoanalytic theory where the libido (energy, pulse, instinct) is mainly stored. It’s the part of self that is the most instinctive and preoccupied with self-satisfaction. It’s sheer pure energy and often compared to the ‘’child’’ aspect of oneself, because it is unfiltered and care about the self only. That’s when Ego and Superego complex appears, the former to be the balance between Id and the latter, which is responsible to care about the external’s world demands. Now that we got that in mind, I’ll explain how it relates to those enneatypes.

3s have learned that to get what they want, they had to achieve something substantial. This is how they get to associate that their value depends on the achievements they accomplish. It is through achievements and success they were rewarded attention or affection, and/or that they were getting other kind of rewards. They are id based because their value is related to their every whims, or in other words, they have value only if they succeed at getting what they want, because the reward is the proof of their value. This is why they are assertive, proactive and often portrayed as shallow, since every of their action is based on prime desires. They don’t care about the ‘’right’’ or ‘’wrong’’ way, they only care about how to get what they want, no matter how.

7s have learned they weren't safe when emotional implication was needed, since it would result in hurt. They learned that avoiding the issue was the only way to feel free and relief. But, when 7s are young, they cannot really escape literally, this is why their dreams or Idealism becomes their primary escape and also, simply their safe place. Dreams and ideals are the definition of one's prime desires, and so id. This then make 7s ever chasing their next dream or ideal, and so asserting every of their whims is reclaiming their safety, but also freedom, which then also becomes associated to safety. What is safe is what I am free from.

8s have learned that the only way to protect their boundaries and earn respect was by literal assertion of their anger. No filter on, no time to care for the other, only the 8 matters. They learned from that they only have to use brute force to get what they want. So whatever they feel, whatever they need, the only way is raw force. It's unfiltered pure "libido". It's id based since id is responsible of the childish aspect of meeting needs as they are felt, but anything not respecting 8s basic needs will automatically cross their boundaries, making them react and assert promptly, like a child. This is why 8s are also reactive, since not having needs met is a primary concerns for survival, and they have learned unfiltered anger is what allow them to meet them.

To resume, assertion is all about attaining what the person wants, without caring for the consequences. They all have learned at some point that the only way for them to properly survive was by acting on their needs by themselves as they showed. The how to get it never provided them anything, only the result matters.

On a side note, I would say 3s can be the most deceptive, since being part of the harmony triad, they can be good at playing chameleon to polish the image of ‘’what they do to get what they want’’ as something ‘’good’’ (w2) or acceptable or even ‘’desirable’’ (w4). Like, using social media to picture themselves as the X archetype of successful, accomplished, enviable (w4), Good (w2) but actually being a total trashy mess behind the scenes. They want the result (social media example: the likes, the follows, the fans), but the core of it is often not aligning, thus their reputation for being shallow (the unhealthier they are on the scale, of course).

If something doesn’t feel quite clear or doesn’t make sense to you, don’t hesitate to ask further questions or discuss it. I made it the most simple I could, but there is much more to say and to contrast.

#ask #typology #enneagram #assertive triad #3s #7s #8s #id complex

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mars2cieranshippy · 5 months

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WHAT ARE THE SIGNIFACANCE TO CIRCLE, SQUARE, AND TRIANGLE

What is the significant of them? - With help and opinions of Chat-Gpt, to see what it thinks upon that subject, I realised despite the simplicity, contrast, lack of complexity and diversity; these simple shapes in all forms of roles, in maths, to art, to culture, symbolism, race and society norms means and have a wide range of weird, boring, fascinating, complexity and diversity to their meaning and how they are used.

For example (Information from Gpt, just to give me a quick scan on what these simplistic shapes mean

In Geometry:

Circle - Represents perfection, eternity, and unity. It has no beginning or end.

Square - Symbolizes stability, solidity, and order. It often represents the earth in many cultures.

Triangle - Often symbolizes balance, stability, and strength. Different types of triangles can have specific meanings. For example, an equilateral triangle may represent equality, while an isosceles triangle could signify duality.

In Art and Design:

Circle - Often used to convey harmony, unity, and movement. It can represent a sense of completion.

Square - Indicates stability, balance, and order. It's commonly associated with architectural design.

Triangle - Used for dynamic compositions and can suggest tension or direction depending on its orientation. In religious art, an upward-pointing triangle may symbolize the divine, while a downward-pointing triangle could represent the material world.

In Psychology and Symbolism:

Circle - Can represent the self, wholeness, and unity.

Square - Often used to symbolize stability, security, and order.

Triangle - May symbolize the three parts of the psyche (id, ego, superego) or represent a balance between mind, body, and spirit.

In Cultural and Religious Symbolism:

Circle - Found in various cultural and religious symbols, representing unity, eternity, and the cyclical nature of life.

Square - Represents stability, balance, and order in various cultural symbols.

Triangle - In Christianity, it may symbolize the Holy Trinity. In other contexts, it can represent different triads or trinities.

EXAMPLES OF THINGS THAT FOLLOW CIRCLE, TRIANGLE, SQUARE

How much do we rely on them? - Well simple we rely on them a lot more than we normally would think, in street signs, warnings, stop signs, Structure of an object person in art, The Sun, Moon, Cups, Which just makes you think when you think about it these shapes have been such a huge influence and a huge part of our societies no matter what, you can never escape the simple shapes as no matter what you make, no matter what you say or do trying to strive away from it, you can't as they are just the simple and basics of every structure known to earth, everything is made up of them just depending on whether or not you will deform them, like a light, or bottle to create a whole knew shape, But they began as a circle.

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subconsciousmysteries · 1 year

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I think the complete inability a lot of women have to acknowledge that some girls actually aren’t like other girls and that’s okay

…comes from the fact that women are superego types far more often than men are.

Superego = a need for people to agree with you = collectivism and groupthink at worst, + a rabid envy of anyone who can be themselves instead of define their identity by said groupthink.

#enneagram #superego triad #compliant #compliant triad #superego #enneagram 1 #enneagram 2 #enneagram 6

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mentalhealthquestions · 7 months

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Understanding the Ego: Unpacking the Complex Nature of Human Identity

The concept of the ego is central to the field of psychology, particularly within the framework of Ego Psychology. In this blog, we'll delve into what the ego is, explore how it feels to have an ego, and examine the dynamics of interactions between individuals with different levels of ego. Ego Psychology provides us with valuable insights into these aspects of human nature.

The Ego: Defining the Core of Self

At the heart of human psychology, the ego stands as a pivotal component of the psyche. It's part of the triad proposed by Sigmund Freud, alongside the id and superego. The ego is characterized by several key elements:

Conscious Awareness: The ego is the conscious, rational, and mediating aspect of the psyche. It deals with thoughts, emotions, and perceptions that we are actively aware of. It guides our everyday decision-making, problem-solving, and management of immediate experiences.

Reality Principle: Operating according to the reality principle, the ego helps us evaluate the external world's constraints and seek practical ways to satisfy our desires, all while considering the consequences and societal norms.

Mediator and Balancer: The ego acts as a mediator between the instinctual desires of the id and the moral standards of the superego. It aims to strike a balance between these conflicting forces, seeking harmony in our decision-making.

How It Feels to Have an Ego

Having an ego is an inherent part of human existence. It's what allows us to navigate the complexities of our inner and external worlds. However, the experience of having an ego varies from person to person. Here are some common feelings associated with having an ego:

Self-Awareness: The ego provides a sense of self-awareness. It's what allows us to differentiate ourselves from others and recognize our individuality.

Agency: It fosters a feeling of agency, empowering us to make choices and take actions based on our preferences and beliefs.

Identity: The ego contributes to our sense of identity, influencing how we perceive ourselves and how we project ourselves to the world.

Conflict and Defense: Having an ego can also bring about feelings of inner conflict, as it balances our desires with societal expectations. It's accompanied by the need to employ defense mechanisms when faced with anxiety or internal strife.

Interactions Between Different Ego Levels

In human interactions, individuals with varying levels of ego can influence one another in both positive and negative ways. Here's how these interactions may play out:

Dominance and Assertion: People with pronounced egos may assert themselves more strongly in interactions, potentially overshadowing those with lesser or no ego. This can lead to feelings of dominance or submission.

Conflict and Misunderstandings: When egos clash, misunderstandings and conflicts can arise. A strong ego may disregard or dismiss the perspectives and needs of those with a lesser ego, potentially causing emotional hurt.

Empathy and Adaptation: On the positive side, individuals with a strong ego can also display empathy and adaptability. They may use their ego strength to accommodate others and understand different viewpoints.

In conclusion, the ego is a fundamental aspect of human identity, facilitating self-awareness, agency, and a sense of individuality. While it's a natural part of being human, the dynamics of interactions between individuals with varying ego levels can sometimes lead to conflict and misunderstandings. Recognizing these dynamics and embracing the principles of Ego Psychology can help us navigate these complex interactions and foster more harmonious relationships with others.

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takerfoxx · 2 months

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All right, this is probably one of the more cringy shipping things I've posted, but eh, who cares?

Now, I've mentioned a few times that for as ride or die as I am for the Israfel Special (Shinji/Asuka/Rei) triad, there's no way it would work given their personalities and hang-ups in just about every canon depiction, and some stuff would have to be altered if it even has a prayer of having a chance. Which got me thinking. In the healthiest possible version of that ship, what would their personalities actually look like, and how would they interact with one another?

Shinji? Malewife. Okay, I kid, but c'mon, it's basically what he does. Even so, he would definitely be the most grounded of the three, the one having to reign the girls in before they got into too much trouble. Despite this, he really does enjoy his partners' antics, and will allow himself to get swept up in them, so long as they're not trying something too illegal. And while he served as the superego in the original show, here he would probably be the ego: the calm, rational one that serves as a comfortable stabilizing force.

Asuka? Basically Haruhi Suzumiya. Still energetic and impulsive, but since she doesn't feel threatened by the other two and isn't constantly trying to compete with them, she instead turns that energy into this proactive force of personality, the one that keeps encouraging the others to get out there and try new things. Her insecurities are definitely still there, but she masks them with overcheerfulness instead of aggressive hostility. Loves pushing her partners to try newer and more daring experiences, but feels absolutely rotten whenever she goes too far and gets them hurt. Despite her impulsive nature, she is the superego of the group, as she is more chaotic than Shinji but also, surprisingly, has more inhibitions than Rei.

Rei? Autistic as fuck. I'm working off the assumption that she still had the same life up until meeting the other two and they're the ones to draw her out of her shell, so she's not exactly the most socially adept. Still, now that she's had a taste for actually having a life, she's boundlessly curious and quietly down for pretty much anything. Enjoys accompanying Asuka on her hijinks while also having Shinji teach her various creative outlets in equal measure. Basically, Rei Q from that heartbreaking slice of life montage from the last Rebuild movie. Also, in a change, she would be the Id, in that she comes into actually experiencing a sense of self and what she wants and enjoys very late and hasn't learned about things like, you know, a sense of restraint and a filter for her intrusive thoughts.

#neon genesis evangelion #shinji ikari #asuka langley soryu #rei ayanami #asureishin #israfel special #poly shipping #asushin #asurei #reishin

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moodboardsbysarah · 1 year

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I’m following healing protocols by bloggers i respect. Don’t have all the words for it but superego triads are incredible even tho I hate y’all sometimes. The ability to make things conscious that the rest of us think are just fate, is so powerful and incredible. The problem with superego triads is when they ignore the unconscious. But all the healers see the power of the unconscious and then teach the rest of us how to make it conscious… when I Can really sit down and work with this sort of stuff, it’s so good for me. Perhaps that’s also why Alcoholics Anonymous apparently works and why addicts who haven’t been addicted for years still go. It would feel good to be in a environment dedicated to healing and ridding yourself of all addictive tendencies in all walks of life tbh

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kendrixtermina · 2 years

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The Withdrawn Triad & the Freudian Ego

Welcome to today’s entry from the Theory Post List – I think this may be The Good One

There is something that had always stumped me about the association of the Hornevian Triads with the freudian triune self.

Generally the way it’s explained, you’re told that the superego contains expectations & civilized values from society, the id contains your animal impulses and the ego is the bit that „has to mediate between them“, & that’s often where it’s left at with no further elaboration.

It’s easy to see how the Dutyful/Compliant types want to be good & moral, & how the assertive types go straight for what they want. But what’s the withdrawn triad have to do with ego? Where does any ‚mediation‘ come in? Maybe 9 could be seen as mediating between different parts of oneself but how does it apply to 4 or 5.

Sure, there’s some snobbish 4s and 5s around (9s less so) but generally when people speak of someone who has a „Big Ego“, they’re picturing an Assertive Type who’s somewhat low on self-awareness. So, rather someone who has a Big Id.

But of course they’d be using the term „ego“ in the more colloqiual sense of meaning ‚pride‘ or ‚self-concept’, not in the same sense as in the psychological theory.

So I went to do some reading. I figured that trying to get how exactly the old-timesy psychologists thought about the ego. The golden key here was this quote by Freud: „The Ego is the censor of reality“. There was a diagram to go with that that showed the ego as a circle looking out onto, or interfacing with reality while the superego and if were attached to it on the other side.

After all, your animal impulses can want alot, your internalized values can demand alot, but it may not actually be possible to accomplish it in reality. You may want to fly or feel like you should be able to fly, but if you walk of a cliff you’ll die.

So, the ego’s job is to determine what reality is. Bam. Let that sink in. Does that not make all the sense?

& perhaps you can already sort of see how each of the withdrawn types does this coming from their dominant center. 5 wants to know what reality is in the sense of building a complete mental map of it. 4 filters it through the personal lens of the heart center – what’s my reality? My identity, my meaning, my significance. 4s pay attention to & mull over their feelings & memories to find what it means about them as individuals. And 9 of course has often been described as being concerned with the question of ‚what does it mean to be here?‘ on a very basic level and having this unique holistic view of the world & a knack for sinking their attention completely into experiences, feelings and people.

This tells you at once why those are generally introverted people & why they’d spend a lot of time in contemplation & spend much time revisiting/reorganizing past memories. The goal is to process everything thoroughly to extract reality from it – whether as insight, personal meaning or just unencumbered experience. High processing means high energy cost means introvert. (though there are exceptions)

You’re not finished working through the first thing when the next one comes so eventually you throw up your hands like „No more things please! Gotta work through the backlog first.“

When you think of it that way, you can finally understand how each triad’s orientation results in their characteristic behavior and ‚reaction speed‘.

For example, why are the Id types assertive/agressive? You could say that it’s cause they’re selfish, but that would be based on an old 20th century misrepresentation of how evolution actually works. For a pack animal survival of the fittest can also mean cooperation, so we do have pro-social instincts. A 7 might invite all their friends to free pizza cause gets them a big dopamine hit. An 8 might intimidate someone who hassled their little brother out of a territorial instinct. A 3 might donate a heap of cash to charity cause it looks good. The starving children are no less fed if you don’t pass some moralistic unicorn pure of heart test.

No, rather what makes the Assertive Types assertive is speed. Your lizard brain is always available to you for referencing and comparing against, since it is inside your skull. It’s the oldest and hence the quickest & the most optimized for its particular jobs.

Their ‚core game loop‘ goes from action to thought, from strategy to implementation, with the effect that data intake and feelings lag behind, yes, but also resulting in amazing realtime responses, hence why 7s 3s and 8s are usually (though not always) extroverts.

Now let’s look at the compliant/dutyful types – external rules & expectations would be largely stored in your memory & hence especially impacted by the environment. Unlike lizard instincts that are inborn, memory has to be learned and retrieved, but it’s still reasonably quick & cheap to access.

The catch comes when you have no rule available for a new situation. Then you might have to ask advice. However, this also means that you are benefitting from the wisdom of the crowd, so to speak: You needn’t reinvent the wheel, and you can more flexibly respond to social environments. (Obglitaroy note that knowing the rules doesn’t always mean following them - they’re data to work with. )

These types go quickly from Intake to Implementation, which can lead to great productivity & responsibly doing what needs to be done. But they can also miss or struggle with the ‚strategizing‘ step, responding to doing & back without checking that they’re „aimed“ in the right direction.

Lastly, the withdrawn triad would have a heavy emphasis on processing & the possible trap of never getting to implementation due to getting stuck in a loop of intake & processing. (having thoughts & fantasies & then having feelings based on those fantasies, ad infinitum.)

Rather than referencing external input or ‚just doing it‘, the emphasis is on the processing step. With the obvious pitfall that, its no use to see reality clearly if you don’t do anything with that info - & even your conclusions themselves may be limited if they are never tested.

The Censor of Reality

Step 2 here is to try & further go into detail how each of the three types is tied to/ an overdominance of a particular aspect of/ function of determining reality.

There have been a lot of frameworks by Freud, Szondi and other contemporaries as well as more modern writers but they all have their own problems & bring in many extraneous factors uneeded to make my point so rather than bore you with long-winded preambles, I will try to construct my point from scratch greek philosopher style.

So, on the most basic level out sophisticated thinking functions are arrays of pattern recognizers – „Tiger spotted!“. Of these, some tend to fire together/ be connected, whereas some networks of neurons inhibit each other.

So the most basic distinction is „present/absent“ or „connected/ not connected“. Objects in the environment can be the same or different. (presence or absence of a connection)

If we see two objects as related, the same or conneced, that means they cause some circuits to fire together.

This applies to our self-concept as well, which is another domain of the ego (hence the very name ‚ego‘). If we perceive that we are „the same“ as someone or feel „connected“ to someone, that means that our concept of ourselves and our concept of the other person are connected, or that we connect the object activity etc. to our self-concept.

A sort of extreme of this ‚Lumping Function‘ can be experienced if you take a lot of drugs and feel „one with the universe“.

What’s really happened is that the LSD or whatever has downregulated your default mode pathwork that normally regulates what we’d think of as the ego. Lumping goes on overdrive, so, it’s really your concept of yourself that gets connected to your concept of the universe.

Makes you consider that in a sense you’ve never actually interacted with anything, just your concepts of them, & the darkness of your skull…

At this point the connection to type 9 should be obvious, since those sometimes experience a low-level form of ‚one with the universe‘ even when perfectly sober. Perception is weighted towards noticing similarities. (which may be absolutely real, truly present similarities that others miss) & its hard sometimes to distinguish what’s yours & what’s someone else’s.

The boundary between concepts, & between self & others, is fuzzy.

Since you want to be connected, or, feel your surroundings are almost kinda part of you, separation feels scary. Like severing part of yourself.

But this also lends itself to empathy, intuition, a good spatial awareness and broad holistic thinking – taking in subtle clues from the environment that others would not let in, or filter on. Basically everything 9s are awesome at.

Now for it’s opposite, what we may call the ‚Splitting Function‘. The perception of distinction, when two things in reality are not the same.

Like with the Lumping Function, this also applies to the self-concept: If the Lumping Function is the drive to be connected to the environment, the Splitting Function is the drive to maintain the separation & independence of the self, to limit its connections. Surely none of us could function without at least some degree of independence. One way this can be attained is by just labeling the object as external to the self. Not mine. Nothing to do with me. Not connected.

But what if you actually need the external object? You can’t just ignore all of reality, after all. Well in that case, this can be solved by integrating external things into the self. For example, if you internalize the message of ‚brush your teeth‘, Mommy no longer needs to tell you to brush your teeth, and you gain some independence.

Either way, be it by disconnecting/disinvesting, or „bringing in“, the self lessens connections to things outside itself.

It follows that if there’s an overdominance of this in one individual , one would want to „bring in“ conceptual representations of as many things as possible – not to „be one with“ the universe but to contain it within the self. There’s drug trip stories to go with this, too, usually unpleasant ones of the ‚everything‘s an illusion and I’m all alone’ sorts. The ones about being God or being the universe may also be a variant of this.

Dependency & contact, especially forced unwanted contact, anything that would jeaopardize the separateness and integrity of the self, would be feared.

And at this point you’ve probably caught my drift.

Which leaves just one more.

The ‚Symbolic‘ Function.

As living beings we’re not just determining reality so we can experience or look at it, but typically we want to do something with that understanding. For this we need something more than just a conceptualization of a world as various objects that are connected or not connected, same or not same: We need to know which ones are important.

That’s a function that is not so strong in 9s („everything has equal priority“) or 5s („information for information’s sake“) for example.

In psychology speak they sometimes talk about the process of cathexis, which is to connect objects in the environment with instinctual drives and emotions.

A classic example is money. What the heck is money? Just paper. In the stone age there was no money, our ancestors did not evolve to chase green paper.

But due to the magic of symbolic thinking, we’ve connected money to things that apes do value – like food, attractiveness, social status. So people fight just as desperately for money as apes fight for food. Sometimes it gets halfway forgotten that a symbol is not the thing itself.

Money is not food, you cannot eat it.

If reckless decisions made to gain money lead to the collapse of society, you will no longer be able to exchange money for food.

Another example is connecting music or colors with emotion.

This, too, can be influenced by drugs said to act on the ‚ego‘ – many classic psychedelics target a receptor that’s known to play a role in assigning meaning or significance. Play music to a bunch of people on acid, and they will read a lot more meaning into the lyrics.

Of course one could see that as the drug confusing you so you see meaning where none is, but is that really true? After all, meaning is not a measurable property. There are shared symbols yes but ultimately all meaning is subjective, assigned by the individual. Being high just stimulates the same function that is used all the time.

So, same game, imagine a person with an overdominance of symbolic fuction, primed to see the emotional associations and „meanings“ in everything, with a pronounced subjectivity & a strong perception of emotional associations. They’d have a strong sense of important and not important, different assignments of others be damned.

Imagine what it means to apply this to one’s self-concept, what such a person would want.

It figures they’d be constantly assigning meaning to things about the self, like thoughts & feelings, & would want their choices, life & relationships to be full of significance & depht, whereas insignificance would be feared - & from that can spring the whole trap of avoiding similarity with others & amplifying negativity to keep a sense of significance & all that jazz, but the affinity for symbol may be yet more fundamental.

Tl;dr: The Withdrawn Types are ‚ego‘ types because they’re concerned with processing reality.

#enneagram #typology

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