#Virmire Survivor

[lilmissnatcat24]

Yet another post in defense of the Virmire Survivor because they get the rawest deal by the fandom.

But people love to clown on Ashley and Kaidan for how they act in me2 on Horizon (which is completely justified, by the way. Imagine your friend/partner comes back from the dead with glowing red eyes working for terrorists. Are they supposed to be okay with that? No! But that's another post). What people forget is that Wrex and Tali literally do the SAME THING to Shepard, and no one bats an eye.

On Freedom's Progress, Tali is HORRIFIED Shep is working for Cerberus. She knows what Cerberus did to the quarians, she knows what Cerberus did to Kahoku and the rachni, and now the one person she admired more than anyone else is working for them? She tells Shepard that she can't trust them, that she can't join up with them. And this is after Tali drops EVERYTHING to join them in me1. Sure, she eventually joins later in the game, but Shepard was alone and scared and surrounded by strangers after being dead, and the first thing Tali tells them is no. And yet no one criticizes Tali for that.

And Wrex? You can KILL him in me1. He's so distraught and angry over what Saren doing on Virmire, but what makes it even worse is that Shepard doesn't even blink before telling him that they need to bomb the facility. Wrex, who was so vocal about his people and how they're dying, doesn't even get to give them the benefit of the doubt before expecting to fall in line. He questions Shepard, questions their choices and their motives, and depending on your choices you can kill Wrex for his doubt. And yet no one criticizes Wrex for that. If anything, he's praised for being a complex character with firm motivations.

But when the VS tells Shepard that they won't join them on Horizon and criticizes their choice to join Cerberus, all of a sudden the entire fandom decides that they're EVIL and they're UNREASONABLE and they're DRAMATIC. When what they're doing is having the most valid criticism of all time-- the same exact criticism that Tali has in the beginning of the game (and, to an extent Garrus too).

And again, in me3 when Udina makes them a Spectre and for just a second it looks like Shepard is back with Cerberus, the VS doubts Shepard. Which is REASONABLE! They don't necessarily have the best track record. They're protecting the Council and here comes shepshep pointing a gun at them. Who wouldn't doubt them? The VS is such a critical part to the story because Shepard needs someone to check their impulses and their decisions, or else you get people like Liara and Garrus who blindly support anything they do. Shepard needs to be kept in line by someone.

In conclusion, VS fans are entitled to financial compensation.

#mass effect #virmire survivor #kaidan alenko #ashley williams #mass effect trilogy

[ekjohnston]

add relevant decision influences to the tags

edit: apologies about his name i have my own kaedan and i forgot which vowels to change

#mass effect #virmire survivor

[anthurak]

So because I’m currently doing a playthrough of Mass Effect again, I thought I’d engage in an interesting thought-experiment regarding the inherently flexible narrative of the RPG plot structure.

Namely, is there actually a way to pin down a ‘canon’ choice for the Virmire survivor between Ashley and Kaidan? Specifically, by trying to eliminate the bias of the player and using aspects of the mission and Shepard’s character that aren’t controlled by the player to determine a most likely scenario for how the events and choices Shepard makes might likely play out.

To that end, let’s look at the Virmire mission leading up to ‘The Big Choice’. If we try to remove the x-factor that is ‘player bias’, thinking of Shepard not as a player-avatar but as an actual character, I think we can actually get a good idea how Virmire actually would have turned out.

To begin with, let’s establish a few qualities that we can assume about Commander Shepard when we ignore possible player biases:

Shepard is an exceptionally capable and experienced soldier and leader, and will thus be making decisions that will give them and their team and allies the best chance at success at this mission.

Shepard cares about their subordinates and allies and will likewise be doing everything they can to get as many people out alive as they can.

Shepard is NOT openly racist towards aliens, nor overtly distrustful or antagonist towards the Council and their agents. Or at least not so much that they would allow such distrust/antagonism to overly interfere with their judgement over the best way to accomplish the mission.

Shepard does in fact care a great deal about BOTH Ashley and Kaidan and does NOT actively want one of them dead.

With all that in mind, let’s look at all of the choices that affect the outcome of the Virmire mission and consider what the most likely choice that Shepard would make is:

First, which squadmate goes with Kirrahe and the STG team, and which one is relegated to bomb duty?

This one’s actually pretty easy when you think about it for more than five seconds. We have Ashley, a hardened frontline soldier with training in all standard alliance weaponry, and we have Kaidan, one of our team’s go-to tech-experts. Heck, Ashley even points out herself that Kaidan should be needed to arm the bomb when volunteering for the mission. Again, when we remove player bias from the equation, I think we can all agree that Shepard would send Ashley to help Kirrahe’s team while having Kaidan work on the bomb.

So with that choice locked in, let’s move to the next big choice: Does Shepard take the necessary steps that allows Kirrahe and much of his team to survive the mission? IE: Completing side-objectives and not diverting security forces towards the Salarians.

Again, removing player-bias from consideration, I think there’s no reason to assume Shepard wouldn’t do everything they could to assist the Salarians. It’s certainly in their best interests to support the Salarians so they can support their team in return. It’s also worth noting that Shepard would have an interest in depriving the Geth of resources by destroying their facilities to make their own task easier. While it may be true that completing the side-objectives doesn’t actually affect the difficulty of Shepard’s own mission, that’s only information that a PLAYER would know, not Shepard themself. And of course, Shepard has one of their own people (Ashley) with the Salarian teams, giving them even MORE reason to assist them. In short, we can assume that Kirrahe and his STG team ARE still alive by the time the bomb is armed.

So with Ashley fighting alongside the still-alive STG team and Kaidan planting the bomb, we now come to the big choice:

Does Shepard press on to the AA Tower and save Ashley or double back to the bomb-site and save Kaidan?

And with everything we’ve established thus far, I wholeheartedly believe the most likely scenario is that Shepard saves ASHLEY.

Because Shepard’s choice isn’t actually between ‘Save Kaidan’ or ‘Save Ashley’. The choice is between ‘Save Kaidan’ or ‘Save Ashley AND the STG Team’.

Yes, it’s true that in the game if you fulfill the necessary side-objectives, Kirrahe and his team are picked up by the Normandy regardless of your choice to press on to the AA Tower or double back to the bomb-site, but I think we really have to ignore this fact.

First, it is a factor that positively reeks of ‘arbitrary game logic’. As in, Kirrahe and his teams are AT the AA tower, so if Joker picks up Shepard and their squad at the bomb site with only a minute or so before the bomb goes off, how exactly can he also rush over to the tower to pick up the Salarians too?

Worse still, if the Normandy is somehow able to pick up the STG team at the tower, then why can’t they pick up Ashley/Kaidan too?! Seriously, if you choose to go to the AA tower and fulfilled the side objectives, you find Kirrahe and the rest of the STG team fighting alongside the squadmate you sent with them! If Kirrahe and his team manage to survive, why can’t they? Looking back, I really feel like going to the AA Tower SHOULD have been a requirement for saving Kirrahe and his team.

And second, this detail of Kirrahe and his team surviving regardless of Shepard’s choice is entirely IRRELEVANT because there is no way SHEPARD could KNOW that!

Yes, the player might be able to know that this pivotal choice comes down to just ‘Save Ashley’ or ‘Save Kaidan’.

But as far as Commander Shepard knows, standing at that railing, weighing their options in this pivotal moment, this is a choice between going back to the bomb site to save one of their squadmates, and pushing on to the AA Tower to save one of their squadmates AND the Salarian STG team. This isn’t a choice of ‘one life weighed against one life’, this is a choice between ONE life, or about a dozen lives.

And again, if we’re removing as much ‘player bias’ from the equation as we can, I think we have no reason to assume that Shepard wouldn’t choose to save as many lives as they can. And since we established the most likely ‘in-universe’ choices are Ashley going with Kirrahe’s team and Kaidan on bomb-duty, I think it’s pretty clear that all things being equal, it’s ASHLEY who has the much better chance of being the Virmire survivor.

I’d say about the only especially plausible scenario where this doesn’t happen is if Shepard is romancing Kaidan, which might (emphasis on ‘MIGHT’) drive them to make the choice to save his life over those of Ashley and Kirrahe’s team. But again, that is only one specific scenario. In any other instance, I’d say that Shepard choosing Ashley over Kaidan is the most likely option.

And looking forward past ME1, I also can’t help but feel that Ashley works just a bit better than Kaidan in terms of what ME2 and ME3 expect the Virmire Survivor to actually do. Namely, how the narrative expects them to be VERY distrustful of Shepard starting in ME2 and eventually being entirely deceived by Udina in the leadup to the Cerberus Coup in ME3.

Now the thing is, does anyone else feel like this arc doesn’t exactly fit Kaidan all that well? Namely that he seems to be just a bit smarter than this?

Throughout ME1, we see that Kaidan is generally one to keep a cool head, and is well-experienced and savvy to the possible faults of his superiors, and generally one to be more thoughtful about a situation.

So I can’t help but feel like when they reunite on Horizon, Kaidan would be more willing to hear Shepard out and give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than becoming so immediately hostile. While I don’t see Kaidan outright joining Shepard’s team on Horizon, I do think he’d nonetheless be more open to reading between the lines of what’s going on and trusting that Shepard knows what they’re doing.

Now, that’s not to say that a super-distrustful Kaidan is entirely unrealistic. Namely, I think a romanced Kaidan feeling that Shepard has betrayed his trust by seemingly not reaching out to them in the two years and taking it pretty personally is a reasonable reaction. But other than that situation, I get the sense that Kaidan would mostly just be happy one of his closest friends is still alive and while he might have his reservations, is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

And given Kaidan’s experience, I simply do not see him getting suckered by Udina THAT easily in Mass Effect 3. Unless Shepard has been deliberately blowing him off and/or antagonizing him, the moment Shepard came out that door with their squad and Udina starting spouting ‘Shepard must be with Cerberus!’, I have to imagine Kaidan would’ve started smelling bullshit and that whole standoff would NOT have happened.

By contrast, basically everything ME2 and ME3 expects of the Virmire Survivor I can ABSOLUTELY see Ashely doing. For good or ill, Ashely is THE hotheaded emotional one of Shepard’s original crew, so her taking Shepard’s disappearance and apparently not getting in touch with her very personally feels pretty in-character. And her being a very loyal and committed Alliance soldier makes her being extremely distrustful of Shepard working with Cerberus feels likewise understandable.

And as for Udina’s shenanigan’s in ME3? Yeah, I’d say Ashely is exactly loyal, unquestioning and gullible enough to fall for his bullshit. Especially after he made her a Spectre.

Finally, going back to the first game, I can’t help but feel that Kaidan making the big heroic sacrifice while Ashley gets saved is altogether a bit more fitting to their respective arcs and the narrative as a whole rather than the reverse.

In ME1, Ashley’s main defining character trait is that she basically has a martyr complex. She’s desperate to ‘redeem’ her family name after the ‘dishonor’ brought on it by her grandfather surrendering Shanxi during the First Contact War. Because of this, she is entirely willing to get herself killed if it would help the mission. She’s looking to throw herself on a sword to redeem her family name. Because of this, I feel like it’s more narratively fitting for Ashley to NOT get the big heroic death she’s partly looking for. Heck, Shepard will flat out call Ashley out on her martyr complex after Virmire if she’s saved. It feels like saving Ashley on Virmire gives her a real arc as a character.

By contrast, Kaidan doesn’t really have much of a character arc in ME1, or at least not one that is furthered by him being the Virmire survivor. Instead, because Kaidan starts the game already friends with Shepard, I’d argue that him being the one to die on Virmire has a bit more of an emotional gut-punch than Ashley’s death does. I mean, think of it like this; Kaidan is the first of your party members in the first game. Out of all their companions by this point of the story, Kaidan has been with Shepard the longest. Sure, Ashley has known Shepard second longest out of their companions, but I’d argue Shepard knowing him before the start of the game gives Kaidan’s death just a BIT more tragic punch.

All in all, after I started noticing all this a number of years back, it’s been one of those things I can’t really ‘unsee’ so to speak. Because my go-to ME1 route is FemShep romancing Liara, I tend to weigh Ashley and Kaidan fairly equally in terms of ‘who I like more’. So because of all this, I now view Ashley as more or less the ‘canon’ Virmire Survivor. Now that’s not to say I think other people who chose Kaidan over Ashley are ‘wrong’ in any way. Just that when we think of Mass Effect as its own self-contained narrative, rather than an interactive experience, it’s Ashley who is just the bit more likely to survive Virmire over Kaidan.

#mass effect #mass effect 1 #rambling #anthurak rambles #commander shepard #ashley williams #kaidan alenko #rambling about one of my favorite games #virmire survivor #trying to determine canon choices in an RPG

[olath124]

I reaaaaally love Kaidan! He’s my sparkly, nicest boi! Well, at this point I have to really think hard about which character I might not like (joking, it’s Jakob.)

There is something super refreshing about a character saying: “I’m a 32 years old, I’ve dealt with my own issue.” Such a great guy, I’ll never be able to leave you on Virmire!

#kaidan #alenko #kaidan alenko #mass effect #mass effect n7 #n7 #spectre #virmire survivor #the nicest dude evah

[garrus-appreciation]

One time I heard someone say they leave Kaidan on Virmire every time because he rolls his eyes whenever Shepard goes to talk to him and I’ve never been able to unsee it since

#sassy kaidan #i can't believe they didn't fix this in the legendary edition #kaidan alenko #mass effect #mass effect 1 #mine #gif #virmire #virmire survivor

[alenkorra]

Kaidan and Ashley are both Barbenheimer girlies and I will not be hearing otherwise

#kaidan alenko #ashley williams #virmire survivor #mass effect

[acciokaidanalenko]

Firmly on the "Both Kaidan and Ash should survive Virmire" team and nothing can change my mind about it.

#no one needed to die on that mission #virmire #virmire survivor #kaidan alenko #ashley williams #mass effect #you can pry this headcanon out of my cold dead hands

[jbk405]

I expect a complete my first playthrough of Mass Effect Legendary Edition later today (only 3 years after I first bought it) and I am presented with the eternally recurring conundrum on Virmire: who to sacrifice?

I don't plan on importing this character into any of the sequel games, this was literally just for initial startup, but it's still vexes me.

#Mass Effect: Legendary Edition #Mass Effect #Virmire #Virmire Survivor #ME

[skinnyazn]

Fourth in my Mass Effect tarot series! Ashley as Death. I wanted this piece to be a bit more literal, as Ash looks over her shoulder, coming to terms with her end—embracing it in the fading light of Virmire. Death: Death is a highly misunderstood card. It represents mortality and endings, but also change and transformation. Death is a powerful card and signals a major life phase ending and a new one beginning. Please do not repost my art without credit.  The Star | The High Priestess | The Emperor | The Empress | Death | The Moon | The Hermit | The Devil | The World | Master List | InPrint

#tarot card #mass effect #mass effect fanart #mass effect tarot card #death #death tarot #ashley williams #death card #my art #art #mass effect art #tarot deck #major arcana #ME1 #ME2 #ME3 #commander shepard #virmire #virmire survivor

[tealenko]

About the Virmire survivor...

People should think a fucking second before complaining about Kaidan or Ash's behaviour+romance in ME2 and ME3

Like... How are you not able to understand that they've seen die both a close friend and the love of their life in no time... Only to see this last one magically come back from the death 2 years later just to join a terrorist organization??

Let me do a list of why they have reasons to behave like they do, just for funsies:

Survivor guilt (x2, because one wasn't enough lol)

Idk If I've mention this already guys #irony but *whispers* did you know that Cerberus is a terrorist group that used, je je, "used" lol *pulls out a list and the close reading glasses* to turn people into zombies, create ambushes with thresher maws, kill Alliance troups, have a quite ~eccentric~ point of view when it comes to other species and how they don't matter as much as humanity and many more lovely things that makes them the clear choice if you have to choose a side right? #ironyOnceAgain

They are in an information limbo that the other characters are not

They have dedicated their whole life to the Alliance (and so have their respective fathers), and what? They're supposed to follow Shepard blindly? WHY?

Cerberus uses them as literal bait on Horizon

Idk about Ash (because the poor thing is always left behind on Virmire... ups #pleaseDon'tJudgeMyShenkoHeart) but Kaidan literally tells Shepard in ME1 that he's not gonna follow anyone who gets out of the line (and, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that, even if Shepard does it to save the galaxy, joining Cerberus and killing 300.000 batarian crosses the line a little lol)

I'll stop here... I'm getting angry on my own ehehehehe

How do I end this now lol?

Well... I'll just say: If I was any of them, I wouldn't forgive Shepard so easily so... Yeah.

And if I was Shepard... I'd just be really greatful to have them back.

Sorry about the 2 post in a row about this... I'll go back to my bubbly self after this one, I promise

#tooTiredToGrammarCheckThisSooooooooForgiveMeForMyEnglish

#mass effect #kaidan alenko #ashley williams #shenko #shepley #virmire survivor #lord I hate that bioware made the *virmire survivor* an actual thing #i'm on kaidan protection patrol #i'm always on kaidan protection patrol #and now I'm on ash's too lol

[deadlymaelstrom]

Ashley Williams

#mass effect #bioware #ashley williams #virmire survivor #second human spectre #tomboy #alliance marine #queue #ai art #my waifu

[catharsis-scrawled]

Curious how many people Virmire is hilariously untragic for.

#polls #mass effect #me1 #virmire #virmire survivor #ashley williams #kaiden alenko

[milesmentis]

So I finished Mass Effect: Legendary Edition over the weekend ...

#do you see my vision ... do you SEE it NOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?! #donnie shepard #shepley #mshenko #I am in OC hell #hero complex ptsd #angst #suffering #virmire survivor #ashley williams #kaidan alenko

[sl0-4n3]

Babe help its 10 pm and I'm thinking about the ugly ass cat suit bullshit they put Ashley Williams in in me3 vs the combat armor they give u in some outfit dlc. This woman is a hot highly trained marine!!! Why is her hair down?? Why does she have heels?? It's impractical! Why did they do this to my butch space marine gf?????

#ashley williams #mass effect #mass effect 3 #virmire survivor #combat armor

[fucknooovirmire]

I'm wondering if you've seen the Virmire Savior mods on Nexus? The mod that restores the ability to save both Kaidan and Ashley on Virmire, with additional mods for LE2 and LE3 that carry over the flags more seamlessly (The mod for LE2 isn't out yet, but the mods for LE1 and LE3 are out now)

...

What?!

Been a while since I last checked in there, so I'm a bit thunderstruck

Holy hell https://www.nexusmods.com/masseffectlegendaryedition/mods/1212?tab=description

I never considered getting LE for myself, and won't be able to look into this in the near future, but DAMN. Someone actually did something about this? Awesome!

Thank you so much for letting me know! <3

But how will this work with the plot? Horizon? Mars the coup? Aaaaaaaaahhh. Here's hoping someone will share more details later.

#flame2ashes #virmire #virmire survivor #team milky way #team eden primary

[shizuu-chann]

With how fast and completely Garrus and Tali--two non-humans--trust Shepard even while she's cooperating with Cerberus, the human VS not even giving Shepard's claims due thought it just insulting, not to mention out of character! Like, I do not in any way think that the human crew members are better or more important, but in my mind there would be more solidarity between fellow humans--not to mention, again, that Shepard and the VS went through the fucking wringer together with the rest of the crew during the Saren fiasco.

And the VS was FRIENDS with Garrus and Tali, too! You don't think that three of your old comrades temporarily working with not for Cerberus means some heavy, dangerous, and important shit is going down?

Sure, Garrus and Tali are like "You sure about this, Shepard? I mean, you remember what they did, right?" And then Shepard can reply "Oh, I haven't forgotten, but these are desperate times, and that's why I'm also glad you're here; I trust you implicitly. Thanks for trusting me." They ask her. They talk to her, and actually listen.

Hell, the only reason Wrex and Liara don't join you is because they're busy doing other, equally important things. Liara gives your corpse to Cerberus, for fuck's sake! A decision I support, btw, but that makes Shepard the bad guy? That the VS is so far up their own ass about Cerberus that they literally can't see or think of anything else is absurd. Humanity's at war with the Collectors (you LITERALLY just saw them attack the colony while you were there!), and you're getting hung up on an alliance of convenience between a shady organization with good intentions (in the case of the Collectors only) and your old commanding officer who you had complete and total faith and trust in mere moments before seeing them again on Horizon???

That conversation should have been longer. I should have had the ability to argue my case better, IF the VS were to continue being obtuse and rigid and out-of-character, that is. Otherwise, Ashley/Kaidan should have reacted a lot more like Wrex and Liara: "Sorry, Shepard. It's good to see you again, and I wish I could help, but I have important things I'm working on right now. Good luck on your mission, I'm thinking about you." Like.

#mass effect #mass effect 2 #ashley williams #kaidan alenko #virmire survivor #me2