#also specifically with movies like barbie

[cicadaknight]

okay i have more (critical) barbie thoughts under the cut.

i really did enjoy it overall. it was fun, cheeky, surreal. i loved the experience of watching it in an energetic theater. i even cried a couple times. but i’m baffled at how powerful it was for so many people when it fell so flat for me. honestly, maybe what i’m feeling is just because i’m trans and it didn’t resonate as strongly with my experience of womanhood or masculinity.

i keep coming across people using gloria’s monologue to dismiss criticism by saying “anyone saying barbie isn’t feminist enough are doing the exact thing gloria pointed out! women have to be perfect but it’s just never good enough!” Y’ALL. having issues with a high-budget, corporate funded movie that has the same milquetoast girl-power messaging you’d find in teen mags from the early 2000s… is not the same as oppressing women under patriarchy. you can critique media and still resonate with aspects of it. good grief.

another response i’ve seen to critiques (specifically of gloria’s monologue) is that the movie’s messages are meant for barbie herself! not for the audience! it had to be super tame and generic because otherwise barbie wouldn’t have understood! all those speeches and ideas are aimed solely at barbie who is learning about all of this for the first time! it’s not for you if you already get it! what?????? that’s not how media works and you know it.

also, the idea that it’s meant to be palatable for a “wider audience” so it couldn’t have included intersectionality without losing people. translation: “wider audience” means white suburbia? white men? cishet people? where the most “representation” they can tolerate is a 3 second clip of a voiceless barbie in a wheelchair dancing? or a black president barbie who mostly says one liners and disappears? a wider audience being the same audience every blockbuster is catered towards?

i’m just spit balling here, but i don’t think it would have been impossible to introduce some unironic nuances like:

america’s latinx character experiencing sexism differently from stereotypical barbie?

maybe not using mount rushmore repeatedly to symbolize who’s in power?

avoiding comparing bringing patriarchy to barbieland to indigenous genocide?

a harsher perspective on mattel’s role in all this? where the outcome isn’t just will farrell’s character griping that he doesn’t even want to be in charge, he just wants to be tickled? (wtf was that lmao)

making a more obvious statement that patriarchy isn’t just a symptom of men stumbling across power and relishing it but that it’s rooted in violent white supremacy and capitalism? i’m positive there’s a way to address that without going full blown academic feminist theory mode.

having the black, fat, and disabled characters speak more than 5 collective minutes? (but at least they had screentime at all, right? ✨representation✨)

explicitly queer characters instead of “weird barbie” and allan being coded as the outsiders to an otherwise regimented cishet universe?

but all those ideas are irrelevant, right? because the movie was just SOOO self aware and layered in irony and if i was smart enough and hadn’t missed the point, i’d know the writers were in on it all.

#barbie spoilers #barbie #barbie criticism #h #okay one last vent #it’s wild to me that people are like ‘no one picks apart movies made by men like this! it’s because everyone hates women!’ #creative work made by women is often more heavily scrutinized than work by men #so i think it's necessary to keep that idea of undue scrutiny in mind as we consume media #but at the same time it's not a reason to just avoid engaging with women's work critically #am i losing it? #i’m losing it #also specifically with movies like barbie #if they're going to very openly and specifically address patriarchy and misogyny to make a statement about them #would it not make sense that those themes would be at the front and center of criticism?

[emostudent]

i'm sorry, i thought Barbie was a movie about BARBIE, why the fuck are we focusing more on Ken than on Barbie?

#I'm not talking about the movie #I'm talking about the fans and discourse surrounding it #it's very ken focused and like did you...did you watch the movie? #i get it okay #Ryan gosling is funny and hilarious #the song is incredible and so on #BUT #that is not what the movie is about? #and also everyone sayithat he should win an oscar #okay and what about margot robbie #what about her acting? for every 2 posts praising her there are at least 15 praising gosling #something something it's giving men that feel insecure watching barbie so they have to find a man to idolise so that he can overshadow #his female colleagues in terms of fame so that said duebros don't feel guilty about watching a movie that doesn't specifically carters to #their demographic and everyone is following suit because it turned into a meme #i'm just mad that again and again every achievement made by women is overshadowed by men and their delusions of grandeur #barbie #margot robbie #ryan gosling

[hobbinch]

I feel like its impossible to generalize "A[X]AB nonbinary" experiences without alienating swathes of trans ppl who are technically in that category

#saw a post that was like #[doing thing] as an AFAB nonbinary person is like [wildly unrelatable to me list of things] #and itd be a fantastic post if op had framed it as #Doing Thing for me was like [list of wildly specific things that are clearly relatable to hundreds of ppl] #this is why ppl need to check with me!!! damn!!! #like even if they meant People Raised As Girls it projected a lot of their own upbringing thats not universally true #but also i see this happen outside of the specific post im thinking of its a trend that annoys me soooo much #its like people are losing track of the idea that being nonbinary means you can have basically any gender #the barbie movie in particular feels like its making people especially ''are you a girl nb or a boy nb'' style gender theory #good morning everyone its time for my ritual of waking up and immediately bitchposting

[nofacednerd]

alright I’m taking away the Barbie movie from you people until you guys learn some media literacy skills

#and also learn some like. basic feminist theory specifically how the patriarchy also effects men. #its been long enough I think I can post spoilers now #the people coming out of the woodwork with the most ATROCIOUS takes on this movie sucks #not to defend Barbie (2023) with my last dying breath

[musiclover2732]

big shoutout to couples dressed up as Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce this Halloween. my instagram was full of these beautiful women in blonde wigs with elaborate themed costumes all from different music videos or stage outfits standing next to just some guy wearing a football jersey of a team that’s not their own. and both people look equally ecstatic about the couple’s costume. like that is a Big Green Flag right there. made me very happy to see.

#it just genuinely made me smile every time #also funny how barbie/ken was the costume every company was expected to be huge #and i saw like none of that #cuz they’re not a couple #but so many people did tayvis/traylor this year #which was just a cheap jersey and probably reusing an eras tour (movie) costume #like usually i hate guy just wearing sports jersey and calling it a costume #but this was specifically guys doing something with their girlfriend’s interests #and probably rooting for a team that isnt their own #which is like blasphemy in the football world to just wear a jersey for a guy/team that isn’t your own #it’s just sweet #and i love seeing the taylor effect in action #but also ‘me n who?’ #taylor swift #travis kelce #halloween

[deathbatsgalore]

my barbie movie look :D

#dyed my hair specifically for it #crocheted those leg warmers myself too :3 #i finished them on the train to the movie #latest haircut is really giving s1-2 sam winchester #really liked dressing up till old men started checking me out in public :/// #also heels are so oooo painful to wear?? how does anyone put up with them #i had to walk home barefoot i couldnt cope rip #my art #self portrait #barbie movie outfit #barbie 2023

[lovecatsys]

i feel like some people really hate the idea of "problematic" or previously hateful/bigoted people growing and changing and renouncing how they used to be. like it's too complex for their minds to understand and they need to keep these people in their little "bad people" boxes so they can hate on them eternally.

#this is going to sound insane but #the thought process that inspired this post was #seeing that apparently people on twitter will call you immoral for liking ken from the barbie movie #and its like #did you guys not fucking watch the movie. #Ken had character development where he stopped doing what he was doing #like that was the whole fucking point 😭 #but yeah this is a real problem beyond just fiction lol #this also isnt to say that like. if there was someone who was actively being racist or transphobic #that poc/trans people suddenly need to be their friend #this is specifically about like. cancel culture and people online who obsessively hate on anything 'problematic' #to the point where it comes off a little unhealthy

[kxllerblond]

reading book? too much effort. sitting down and writing replies?? can't focus.

youtube rabbit hole of in-depth Barbie history and architectural design of dream houses and playsets? i got all da focus in da world baybeee!

#barbie has always been an Interest especially in adult years since i more or less refrained from being #a hardcore barbie enjoyer because ykno not to gender talk on a tues but i rejected just about everything typically femme because i did not #want to be seen as femme or fully femme from a young age #so even if i really liked barbies i distanced myself from them pretty fast :'( #so now i think im compensating by like. instead of buying them for myself because i dont really want to collect. i just like lmao #obsessively info dive and watch commercial compilations and shit kdjfgdg #anyway did you know barbie has two younger siblings besides her main three that were actually her youngest ones #tutti and todd and they havent been seen since the late 90s? like theyre recognized in terms of history but in terms of #barbie lore and canon theyve been completely retconned out cuz theyve never shown up in sets or movies or anything #did you also know they were made of a bendable soft plastic as opposed to hard and the wires were prone to poking through and stabbing kids #and that the plastic stored like shit and if you put them (soft plastic) on your other dolls (hard) they would literally #melt into each other?? :) #barbie also has lots of cousins just got mentioned briefly and then annihilated from technical canon lol #oooh and then there's also Blaine who is an ex bf of barbie that was made specifically to date her briefly during a sort of campaign #barbie broke up with ken and got with blaine but ofc she got back with ken and after that blaine was never seen nor mentioned again. he deA #anyway happy tuesday im gonna eat my soup and try and break out of this info consuming trance so i can wrITE #oHOH and last silly trivia being barbie has lots of canon relatives that havent been retconned or anything BUT they've also never been made #into dolls. off the top of my head i think some of these include like uhhh her mom and dad and some aunts and shit #tho i think these are either just mentioned in passing or from the barbie movies or some in books

[barbie-roberts-is-a-goddess]

"why do the barbies have jobs" because the world is inspired by the dolls and the dolls have jobs?? wtf are you talking about

#even if you somehow don't know what barbies are #they also show in the intro that the dolls have specific jobs?? #like there's so much good faith criticism you can have about that movie so why are you grasping at air

[kiilonova]

there are a lot of subtle things that i didnt like in the messaging of the barbie movie but i think the main one that stuck with me was that weird barbie was right and helpful the whole time and everyone acknowledges that at the end but no one ever makes any real steps to like. make up for how they treated her. she's just supposed to be this helpful guide who never gets any resolution herself despite being visibly hurt by being ostracized and insulted.

#cro zone #it does accurately echo how straight women will turn to gay people for help and then ditch them once theyve gotten what they want #but i feel like it didnt have to be that way in a movie supposedly about grappling with the wholeness of personhood/womanhood specifically #very much like. lets rely on lesbians to get us out of the patriarchy yippee #you wouldnt buy lesbians a fucking coffee ok they owe you nothing #and im not a lesbian nor do i particularly like kate mckinnon but i really did latch onto weird barbie #bc i feel like thats the position i occupy in ppls minds. useful but not included. also i have 90% of her wardrobe and i want her house.

[stephantom]

what didn't you like about it, out of curiousity?

Hmm I’m gonna have to think on it it some more and come back to you when I’ve managed to articulate something

#I will try to get back to you later anon #I didn’t hate it. there were scenes that made me laugh and smile #but I think the prevailing feeling it’s left me with is… confusion/frustration/dissatisfaction? about the message insofar as it had one? #hmm and I think also because it made me remember how much I disliked and felt alienated by barbies growing up #not bc of the body image issues which the film makes some effort to engage with #not beauty standards but FEMININITY standards #and the movie doesn’t acknowledge that aspect of barbie as a cultural influence/reflection at all #except for maybe Allen if you squint?? #the assumption is that you want to be barbie at least to some extent. you want to be pretty. #but you’re too stressed to accomplish it or you’re too angsty to embrace your desire to be pretty #the angsty teen goes from wearing all black (and pants) to a purple skirt by the end. the girly makeover subtly signifies healing. #(I know that could just be me reading into it… but is it?) #it’s the way it holds up a specific kind of person as Woman and universalizes her struggles and calls them All Women’s Struggles #while conflating them and largely ignoring actual economic/legal/political issues faced by women as a class #and the whole ken storyline… ehh idk I need it to be more internally consistent or something. to have a coherent message and not just #‘it was like I was in a trance where I thought I cared about the Zack Snyder cut of the Justice League’ as a joke about… what? #male-dominant interests being somehow inherently toxic? cool women not being into nerdy boy stuff? #it’s the old men are from mars women are from venus thing #sigh. girl power. lol I don’t know! #sorry this rambling is all I have for you right now #I thought the critique in youtube by verilybitchie touched on a lot of good points tho so maybe that’s somewhere to start #on* youtube #but it’s ok if you liked or loved it. I saw it with my sister who was super psyched for it (which is why I wanted to like it too) #and she’s great so

[oedipushansen]

i was scrolling thru letterboxd reviews of the barbie movie out of curiousity & there was one where some of the genuine critiques were “why did they specify that barbie and ken had no genitals. if they dont have sex then how are they boyfriend-girlfriend instead of just friends. why is there a supreme court in this world if no one feels lust or longing. the barbie world is a utopia so are you saying the world would be better without sex.” and “what was the point of having people of color in the movie”

#i THINK the latter was trying 2 critique them for ‘set dressing’ but correct me if im wrong im pretty sure one of the main characters is a #a hispanic girl & her mother . also like. barbie & ken dolls that r not white exist. those are real #have we circled back to only thinking its acceptable to have poc in movies if its for a specific reason & not just bc they exist #im paraphrasing bc i dont have the review pulled up at the moment (ill post the screenshot if i find it again) & the whole thing was worded #very. righteously perhaps is the closest word i can think of? #im hesitant to say annoying bc i was in a bad mood when i saw it so maybe my memory is being tainted but it did read as very annoying to me #at the time . also maybe they were actually making a Super Intellectual Review & i just didnt get it #txt

[allhappyandgay]

i didn’t like barbie oop

#i know better than to think i actually DISLIKE a movie simply because it didn’t connect w me or feel like it could apply to me tho #so instead I didn’t ENJOY watching the movie #if that’s any better #idk I thought it was rlly annoying at parts #but I get Im just not the target audience #I thought it would be funnier and better in general cuz of the hype #but honestly—and I hate to say this it makes me feel old—I didn’t rlly get it #like I get the message they couldn’t make that more clear with the amount of times they said patriarchy men women etc #but as a trans man I felt like it made huge generalizations every other line #but I understand that it’s somebody else’s experience of oppression #cuz everything’s happening cuz of what the mom is going through and how she’s being affected by it #but jesus #I was trying not to feel offended or cringe lmao reminding myself that I am a man who happened to not be socialized female growing up #and I prob just don’t understand the depth of the specific feelings they brought up #but yeah it did make me feel p dysphoric and uncomfortable the whole time cuz I just felt like it was putting men and women into boxes and #as always acting as if they experience all of the same experiences because of their gender #which they do not #also thought it was weird that stereotypical barbie and ken were the main barbie’s seems contradictory to the message #got yr one disabled barbie one fat barbie one trans barbie and the rest can be normal but the main ones gotta be white #like I almost feel bad saying it cuz of the whole male gaze issue the movie brings up but I only rlly liked the ken parts lol they were #actually funny n the rest was eh #idk movies like that they try to get that message across but still lack somehow #they still allowed barbie to cry and have the audience sympathize with her and give her sad music to cover it #but any time a man cries it’s as per usual a dramatic humorous exaggerated thing yr supposed to laugh at and not a lot of ppl notice it #also felt like any characters that were supposed to represent me were brushed aside like how queer ppl are irl #the daughter was fucking annoying I hope she died #greta gerwig rlly said yeah she can say “reality challenged” without even an IMPLIED disapproval. when she said YOU FASCIST I held my face #in my hands oh god #they’re like we don’t have genitals aka that’s not what defines sex or gender *ends the movie with going to a gynecologist* #anyway love that karim from the OA was in it talk about range jfc

[lily-blue-blue-lily]

this is niche but the scene in barbie with the photoshop was truly the most specifically relatable to me scene i have ever watched

#i was watching it with two of my (female) friends from my course and we were actually dying at that scene #i have been in that specific situation so so many times #barbie spoilers #< ill tag everything with that for the next like week or so #also i was watching it four of my guy friends and their reactions to so much of the movie was truly delightful #i have so much i love about this movie but i wont write it all out here #just know i fucking adored it #also i watched oppenheimer beforehand #also a truly great film #the vibe in the cinema was so so much fun all day #it was so busy and so many people were dressed up and taking pictures with the posters for both movies #it all just made me so happy #me and my friends also only ate pink food all day #because why not i guess

[shadowedvales-a]

Would Jane ever go by Nessa? Just curious <3 Love your writing!!!

okay firstly, you are the only person who has ever acknowledged her full name is janessa and i just!!!! smooches you hard on the forehead!!! secondly, that is a very interesting question :o and honestly i had never thought of it. i don't think jane is a nick-namey person, although she more often than not refers to herself as jane, she doesn't consider it a nickname because it's what her mother called her. both in the flashbacks she saw of terry in the void, and the name jane is scattered amongst the nonsense she speaks (the sunflower, four to the right, three to the left thing). but, nessa is a really pretty name, and jane loves pretty names, so i don't think she would have a problem if someone called her nessa. i think if anything, she would be really picky on who calls her nessa; she's got no problem correcting her friends by simply saying jane, if they call her elle/eleven, so if she didn't like someone calling her nessa, she would just say "jane" to get the point across. i think close friends could definitely call her it, for sure!

also thank you for the compliment!!!

#anon. #also i know terry doesnt say jane in the show. #but she does in my canon! #and at this point. who even follows shows canon like really #thank u for asking!!! #legit when i saw this i was like :O INTERESTING!!! #i think it's a nice nickname but i dont think she would specifically connect to it. #her name is really. really important to her. and i think at the end of the day she's always gonna be jane over anything else. #because it's really the only thing her mother has ever said to her. that she knows of. #BUT honestly i am gonna contemplate way more than i should about the use of nessa in her life hersjrfah #u rly sent a very simple ask and now my brain is going!!!!! woosh #i legit thought of using janessa as a birth name bc its a characters name in barbie and the twelve dancing princesses #bc i watched that movie a few weeks back and the name janessa came on and i was like :D !!!! #so shes named janessa bc of barbie <3

[katnissgirlsmakedo]

you know what would fix me. a barbie island princess barbie doll. not even remotely kidding

#i’d loving put her on the bookshelf with all my other barbie movie barbie dolls and look at her every day <3 #it’s not like a shelf specifically for barbies it’s a bookshelf. i have dork diaries on it. and barbies sitting in front of the books #however in the ideal world i do have a shelf specifically for barbies and i also have stands for them so you can see their dresses and i hav #have a barbie for every movie all in pristine condition #that is not the case in reality. my erica barbie has dog bite marks on her arms. such is life #also the erica and annalise barbies don’t sing anymore it’s tragic. but again. such is life when you’ve had a doll for over a decade #beth.txt