#but the way jess and logan - who i really like too - can be seen as complex and misunderstood

[miraculouslycool]

It has been 16 years since Gilmore girls ended and I still think the Rory Gilmore hate bandwagon is forced, ridiculous and misogynistic.

#don't get me wrong she has her wtf moments too #but the way jess and logan - who i really like too - can be seen as complex and misunderstood #while doing fucked up things #but rory is seen as ungrateful and spoiled because....she had a human reaction #to being told that what shes been working for her whole life #is actually futile in the coldest way possible? #for wanting a break from the expectations EVERYONE ELSE including her loving #well meaning mother put on her?? #i dont understand why rory is to be blamed for being a product of her environment #but jess and logan get a pass for that exact same reason #its because of our good friend miss o jenny #gilmore girls #rory gilmore

[pynkhues]

Oh you know I need your dream cast for a Succession prequel, Sophie

(x)

Okay okay okay, SO first thing's first, my dream Succession prequel is set against the 80s clusterfuck expansion into parks because every little bit of canon we got about that era just cooks. You've got Logan meeting Frank (and probably Gerri), Logan's whirlwind romance then toxic marriage to Caroline, Logan starting to have the golden trio and reconnecting with Connor and dealing with the aftermath of what happened to, and with, Connor's mother! Plus Ewan may or may not be still involved in the company? (I choose to think he is!)

As a result, a lot of my casting is partially determined by the age the characters would be then, which means I've had to change some actual dream casting (Romola Garai as 40yo Gerri, my beloved), but it's also a pretty fun era to think about so that's fine.

Anyway, let David Tennant as Young(er) Ewan invite you in:

I really love the Snr. Roy's being from Scotland, and their backstory feels so entwined with Scottish WWII history, so I wanted to honour that a bit in the fancasting, but all the same, I think I probably would've cast David Tennant anyway. I think he can sell that simultaneous moral superiority and absolute hypocrisy in a way that Ewan needs, and honestly, I just love the idea of him reading Jesse Armstrong's dialogue, haha.

Was Karl working for Logan in the 80s? I choose to believe yes, because I love him. Jack Lowden's been one of those actors who's popped up in a few things I've watched lately - Fighting with My Family, Small Axe and Slow Horses in particular, and I've been consistently pretty impressed with him? I think he's got a good handle of comedic timing (important for anyone taking up the Karl mantle) but also is a compelling dramatic actor and I think he could kill it opposite...

David Rysdahl as Young Frank! I've always figured Frank would've been a bit younger than Logan, and I love that little glimpse we got in canon of Frank having been brought in to advise on the parks acquisition and then Logan basically making him an offer to stay. There's something extra crunchy there for me if Frank's a little wide-eyed at the time and Logan oozes that charm that we know that he can turn on when he wants to. I like the psychosexual drama, and I also like the idea of Frank having this weird sort of connection to Caroline and Kendall because he met them while he was still impressionable / in the midst of being swept up.

But yes, haha, David Rysdahl I think is a bit of an up-and-comer, which is kinda funny given he's been in a lot of stuff. I've liked him though in the newest season of Fargo, and lowkey think he looks a bit like a young Peter Friedman.

Honestly, I just loved her in Swallow a lot, and she played the smart, unhappy, unhinged, WASP-y wife there to such perfection that I think she'd be ideal for a young Gerri who's still better known as Baird's wife than as counsel. There's such an attitude and vulnerability to Haley too which I think would match J's quite well, plus they have a bit of a similar look too which works for me? I want to see her claw her way in! And I also want to see her toxic relationship with Caroline which leads to her being Shiv's godmother.

Speaking of...

Honestly, I went through a few people for Caroline and she was surprisingly hard to cast. A lot of actresses who felt like they might fit the bill - Michelle Dockery and Claire Foy were two that sprung to mind - didn't really work as I didn't think they could quite balance the acidity with the blunt charm and playfulness that Harriet Walter just does so well (and honestly is a testament to what an actress she is). But then! Jessie Buckley! I've loved Jessie in everything I've seen her in, from Women Talking to The Lost Daughter, but it was actually thinking about her turn in Misbehaviour which made me think of her for this, exactly because of how she can play, well playfulness.

Plus I think she'd be a lot of fun opposite...

I did say I''d go with a Scotsman! Ewan McGregor's been in a few mmm, less good things lately, which makes a turn in a role like Logan Roy could potentially be pretty great. He's always been a remarkable actor, and one who, I think, can find the heart in any role, which is arguably what any actor playing Logan needs. Plus I always tend to think Ewan has chemistry with everyone he acts opposite, and I think he could really sell Logan's naked charisma in this era in a way that would make sense given he's making some pretty questionable choices across the board in the 80s. Plus, y'know, to the point of the post that inspired this one, I think him playing Logan would do a lot of psychic damage to people who could only ever see Logan as perpetrator of abuse and never as product or victim.

#also i lowkey think alan ruck looks a bit like david tennant? #i think it's sort of around the eyes #which makes that casting fun too #i always wonder what ewan's wife / marian's mother must've been like #but yes #making this post has made me want to write this fic again haha </3 #hbo succession #recastings #kinda #welcome to my ama #logan roy #ewan roy

[saltygilmores]

Thoughts While Watching Gilmore Girls- Season 2, Episode 16, "There's The Rub", aka a Masterpiece of Gilmore-dom, AKA Lorelai Gilmore Is Safely Contained In Another Location, AKA Jess Rory And Paris Eat Together And All Is Right With The World-Part 1

Let's just jump right into this absolute masterpiece. This 45 minutes of bliss. This triumph of GilmoreDom that even Dean Forrester can't ruin. (PS-Don't forget to check all of the previous episodes I've recapped! You can find them in my pinned post).

Yeah okay. The point of this construction was supposed to be for Jess to have a seperate space for himself, right? But this never happens. So why are we doing this again? This poor kid had to sleep on the floor next to Luke and Lorelai when she stayed over. Lorelai told Rory "your boyfriend snores." Tragically Lorelai was closer to sleeping with Jess than Rory ever was.

I hope one of them was Forrester. Perhaps God was trying to smite him and he failed, but hey, try try again right?

1:11 into the episode and I'm already grinning like an idiot. Emily calls Lorelai. "Would you like a gift certificate for a weekend at the spa?" TAKE IT TAKE IT TAKE IT TAKE IT TAKE IT Emily uses advanced manipulation techniques on Lorelai to trick her into accepting a mother daughter weekend at the spa and I couldn't be more proud of Emily.

Me too, Emily. Me too.

I'm not saying Lorelai deserves an injurous chunk of concrete falling on her head (I reserve most of my grave injury/ death wishes for Dean), but a small DOINK or KABONK would have been satisfying to watch.

A shirt that just repeats "yoga kills" over and over is one of Lorelai's more interesting fashion choices. Per the post-opening credits, this s also a Madelyn & Louise episode? How can it get any better? Lorelai is carefully organizing her spa itninerary while Rory declares her plans to stay in for the night, order take out, watch movies and go to bed early. Lorelai is insistent that Rory throws a rager in her absence. With who, exactly? I mean this in the kindest, gentlest way possible: Rory has no friends ( besides Lane, who I suppose has demonstrated her ability to slip out of her room un-noticed and attend wild parties on multiple occasions, should I give her partial credit here?) When you think about it, these are the only true, solid, non-frenemy, non-annoying hangers on (like Logan's "friends"), non-sexually tense friend pairs on Gilmore Girls: Lane and Rory Lorelai and Sookie Miss Patty & Babette. Welp that's it. GIlmore Girls teaches us an important lesson: If you have a penis, you're not allowed to have any friends (who you aren't trying to fuck).

17 years old, but already speaking like a true geriatric Millennial from the later 2000's. I heartily salute your low key lifestyle, Rory Gilmore. You do you, and don't listen to your mother.

"Haven't you ever seen the movie Risky Business? I don't mean you have to start a prostitution ring, but maybe an illegal casino or something." Well, if Rory wanted to start a prostitution ring, I know a teenage gigolo who can call some people and make it happen. L: Why is (Emily) honking? She hates honking.

Rory's Inner Monologue: "I know,I was there."

The chariot that will whisk Lorelai away to a secondary location so Rory can have a night of freedom from her insane mother. Maybe not freedom from three other people imposing their time on her against her wishes, but hey, no Lorelai!

One of my favorite parts of Gilly Girls is the 36 year old Chilton extras who have wives and 3 kids to get home to after chemistry class. Paris Geller's world crumbles when she discovers she recieved an A-Minus on her chemistry test. Since Madelyn and Louise won't give up their Friday Night Fuck Dates to help her study, Paris turns to her wife for help. After much badgering, Rory gives in and agrees to spend the entirety of the following week helping Paris study but declines for that evening, because Rory really needs to be alone, and just BE.

"A whole week of studying with Rory Gilmore. Ugh. I GUESS that's okay. I GUESS that doesn't make my nether regions flutter in anticipation or anything."

On top of the caffiene withdrawls, Emily re-arranged Lorelai's careful planning which was supposed to ensure she was seperated from Emily for the majority of the trip, so now all of their spa treatments are going to be in tandem! Lorelai's disappointments and caffiene withdrawls are like chicken soup for my soul. Ahhh! Okay, fine, Lorelai is pretty tolerable, even enjoyable to watch in this episode, but she's built up so much of whatever the opposite of goodwill is (badwill?) that it's hard for me to let go for one episode and not just snark on her constantly. A girl's gotta snark.

Emily and Taylor Doose were the OG Karens. Did anyone just feel a sudden chill?

AHH! You idiots, you have GOT to stop scaring me like that. Having to see Rory and Dean make out and then having to hear Rory pretend that it actually turned her on is another form of unthinkkable torture outlawed by the Geneva Convention. Rory's sexual experiences really went Dean Forrester, Logan, ????? (mystery 10 years), then Logan again. I hope there was something in between Logan and Logan, for I fear this poor thing has never had an orgasm in her life. Maybe Jess snuck in there somewhere after their initial breakup. Paris maybe? Ditch em all and buy a nice vibrator is what I say. Anything that would unbleach my eyes.

*to the tune of Unbreak My Heart by Toni Braxton* Unbleaach my eyeeesss....don't ever do it AGAAIIIN... Un-do this shit that caused me to claw at my brain and want to rip out my eyes...

If I had a nickel for every time AmyShermanPalladino flip-flopped between making Dean a Nerd or a Jock, I would have many nickels. Frankly, my dear Amy, we know he doesn't know how to read, play sports, or kiss a girl, so just knock it off already. The makeout session lasts an ungodly long amount of time (about another 10 seconds) because he insists on stopping to talk to her 3 words at a time between each torturous application of his lips to hers. I swear I'm going to make a Gilmore Girls Bingo Card and here's a space I'd add to the card: "Dean makes a suggestion for something HE wants to do, not taking Rory's time, feelings, or interest in said thing into consideration, Rory is not able to express just how deeply she does not want to be involved in the Thing, and then Dean goes "WHAT" when she hesitates and then manipulates her into doing the Thing against her wishes, or he offers her a terrible compromise that benefits her in no way whatsoever" This is the second episode in a row where this exact thing happened and probably like, the fourth time total. Dean trying to seduce/ interest Rory in a couple of minutes of awkward groping: "So tonight (SLORP) I was thinking (SLORP) since your mother's gonna be gone (SLORP) I could come over."

We have Oh. What? I repeat, Oh. What? has achieved liftoff. Your shitty manipulation tactics and slorping on Rory's face cannot bring me down, Forrester. Not in There's The Rub. Not gonna happen. Bring on Jess and Paris.

I await Dean Forrester's reasonable and measured response.

"You're right Dean Forrester, silly me, I dont know why I would ever consider spending a single minute of my time with anyone but you. Thus far you have given me no reason to avoid you like Covid-19, even though I don't know what that is."

The Butthead was too stunned to speak. Poor Rory has to EXPLAIN to Dean why she would ever entertain the idea of spending one night by herself. They should show Gilmore Girls in high school sex ed classes as an example of unhealthy dating relationships. I swear. I'm going to publish this Part 1 a little prematurely as I'm leaving for the afternoon and I may as well throw it up, much like the lunch Rory will throw up after making out with Dean. Part 2 soon.

#gilmore girls season 2 #gilmore girls #theres the rub #rory gilmore #lorelai gilmore #emily gilmore #anti dean forrester #denise rewatches gilmore girls #paris geller #jess mariano #milo ventimiglia #luke danes

[frazzledsoul]

A short list of things the season 7 writers did that I don't think ASP would have allowed

- Rory verbally eviscerating her mother for banging her father and screwing up her personal relationship with him right at the moment when when he was finally starting to show interest in her as someone other than a means to get to Lorelai

- Luke being allowed to stop stewing in his anger and move on with his life, because the world doesn't revolve around Lorelai and there are other people in his life who needs him

- Luke being allowed to be a competent and loving father without the complete focus being on how Lorelai is upset that it's distracting from her perfect wedding

- Luke being allowed to tell Anna that he is responsible, he is a good dad, and that she has no right to take April away from him

- Rory's perfect S7 hair

- Rory going an entire year without any love triangle bullshit

- Logan mostly being a pretty good boyfriend without any fatalism worked in about how he's going to ruin Rory's life and can never change

- Logan moving away from his dad's company and verging out on his own

- "Logan, I love you, but I'm not going to support every single stupid thing you do." RORY MY QUEEN!

- Zach being allowed to become a supportive husband and father

- The Anna villain era, which was warranted because that woman was the worst.

- Lorelai writing the reference letter for Luke and it being detailed in writing how he was Rory's father figure and a wonderful man and support system, things no one will ever say about Christopher, ever

- Luke winning the custody that he asked for

- The scenes of Luke and Luke/Lorelai cuddling infant Doula, which ASP would have rejected because they were too cheesetastic

- Emily straight up telling Lorelai that Christopher is a loser, but she picked him, so she should take the marriage seriously, because after all, it's her funeral (ASP would never allow her beloved Christopher to be talked about this way)

- ASP might have allowed Christopher to flat out say that he was Lorelai's second choice and to have Lorelai say she doesn't really want to be with him, but...I have my doubts

- Ditto with Luke and Logan being so supportive of the girls when Richard was ailing...I don't think she would have let Logan do it, and Luke showing up and focusing more on Lorelai than having a pissing contest with the mostly absent Christopher is something I have doubts she would have allowed

- I'm not sure she would have allowed Lane's baby shower episode, which I kind of adore. The scene where Lane tells Rory she wants her to be the "Lorelai Gilmore" to her kids in case they rebel against her values and turn out like her mom seems too much of an admission that Mrs. Kim's belief system is valid. I'm not sure it would have happened under ASP.

- Luke being the godfather to Lane and Zach's boys because they wanted some guidance from him. Nope. She never would have allowed Luke to be seen as that good of a dad.

- Hay Bale Maze! Lit fans are going to have to forgive me because I really love, love this episode and all of Logan's interactions during the hour, especially with Lorelai.

- Luke and Lorelai taking responsibility for their behavior and apologizing to each other. ASP would never have allowed Lorelai to say it was wrong to sleep with Christopher Hayden. I'm not sure she would have allowed the minimal insight from Luke that he pushed Lorelai away because he was afraid of getting close to her or to have Lorelai forgive him for this because after all, nothing is more important than Lorelai Gilmore's wedding plans. Anyway, even if it didn't go deep enough I would not have ever watched the show again unless she had said she was sorry for what she did.

- Lorelai serenading Luke during karaoke. Too cheesetastic. Wouldn't have been allowed.

- Jess being allowed to keep his dignity offscreen, because if Milo had been able and willing to make appearances during S7 (huge if, given his full time 22 episodes a year gig on another network at the time) ASP likely did not have a fabulous plot in store for him in part because she's ASP and she never has a fabulous plot in store for anyone but at this point in the story, her deteriorating writing skills and overall tendency to want to make her characters as miserable as humanly possible would have prevailed and it would have been a really nasty, toxic Jess vs Logan plot that would not have been in the best interest for anyone involved. So Jess keeps his dignity, has a nice life offscreen, and is, of course, in the full swing of his Slutty Philadelphia Jess era. He was gifted a good life, let him keep it.

-And most importantly of all...the story ends with Rory and Lorelai ready to go off to their futures while Lorelai will maintain her relationship with her parents. Their codependent era is over and Lorelai can concentrate on family life with Luke (whatever that ends up meaning) and Rory can finally brace adult life without clutching her mother's apron strings. Whatever future or ship one imagines for Rory is possible, because she's young and ambitious and is not tied down by the belief that she has to repeat her mother's patterns in life. ASP would never, ever have allowed this. She did not want them to be happy, and she did not want them to move on. But it was the ending they (and the audience deserved).

#this has been in my drafts FOREVER #i'm just a wee bit tired of hearing how amy sherman palladino has to be at the center of what people wanted from the show #when she's the one that fucked up most of it in the first place #gilmore girls #anti amy sherman palladino #i am glad that the characters were allowed to change and grow once she exited stage left #even if S7 is unbalanced as a whole #it is better than what she wanted to do

[scoopsgf]

Hii, I was just reading the discussion about Rory being really affected by the way Jess left and she not giving her a second chance when she did forgive Dean and Logan and I just want to say that I think that Rory not forgiving Jess means a lot more than Rory forgiving the others. There are a lot of things here but I think that one of the many reasons is that when Rory is with Jess she's more herself than with the others. She knows her worth. That's why I think that she can stand up for herself and she's not scared of calling him out like when she was with Dean, we can see this when she leaves that message on his answering machine eg. Plus, she knows his worth, she trusts him and she expects a lot from him, so him leaving her, must've been a major disappointment, just like Luke was disappointed. In fact, the speech that Jess gives to Luke about him expecting always the better, can also apply to Rory if you look closely. I think one of the reasons why Rory forgave the others easily is because she expected less from the others, maybe because she didn’t love them the same way she loved Jess, she didn't know them the way she knew him…Another reason for Dean may be Lorelai, who told her over and over again that he was a saint and for Logan, him gaslighting her...it all helped...But I think that here when we talk about if Rory should've forgive him or not, it’s important to remember that we are not the character and that we don’t value the same things. I say this because Rory has abandonment issues, due to Christopher and I would say Lorelai too, because Rory has seen her mother leave a lot of relationships and I think she doesn’t want to do that. What I want to say is that I would’ve said yes when Jess said come with me. I would not have forgiven or at least it would have cost me much more to forgive Dean for treating me like that and Logan for cheating on me. I really value trust so someone breaking my trust would be far worse for me than someone leaving having his reasons…does this make sense, I don't know, well what I want to say is that we can't judge a character for what we think we would do, as I say I would've say yes when the yale episode. (well I say this now but I don't really know haha, but I think I would most likely say yes, I like spontaneity) Howewer I understand perfectly why Rory said no, because we can't judge Rory's decisions through our own judgement and beliefs....

That's all, I shut up now sorry 😅☺️

no ur making so much sense and i totally agree!! there were so many contributing factors at play in terms of rory’s decision not to give jess a second chance, and i personally don’t blame her at all for it. imagine growing up the way she did and seeing so many relationships end, seeing her mom and grandparents estranged, watching her dad leave over and over again. rory is desperate for someone reliable and dependable and jess in s4 was just… not that. however, i will say that by the revival (and honestly by s6) he definitely was. if you ask me the end of AYITL heavily implies that rory and jess are gonna have a love story very similar to luke and lorelai’s, but that’s just me. anyway, yes to all of this!!

#asks #gilmore girls #theblondevampire #literati #rory gilmore #jess mariano

[loveandthings11]

Rebellious questions for Jesse: Did you go against your own philosophies? Also, are you a cunt?

While most of my sadness with this ending comes from simply wanting Kendall to be happier and much more full of hope, I actually don't think that some aspects of this narrative align with the philosophies of the rest of the show. I made a post about the difference between characters as people and narrative analysis that will hopefully make this all make sense. That one was focused on characters as real people and this one is focused on narrative as it applies to the theories of Kendall Wins but Loses and Jesse’s “Essential Selves”

1. Kendall Wins but Loses

Because of this theory, I was expecting an ending where we either see Kendall as CEO but having taken down or otherwise lost everyone, OR an ending where he loses the CEO vote but Shiv and Roman voted with him and it was Stewy who gave the final vote that meant the Roys were out, as a act to free Kendall (funny that he voted the opposite way but also did it to support Kendall). This ending would have allowed the sibs to be broken but together like 3x09 with the understanding that they'd end up content like 4x01. The Cycle, but they're free for real this time.

I thought that within the narrative, there would be the comfort of either “he got his dream job and felt like he fulfilled his destiny” (even though it’s not good for him and cost him his relationships) OR “he lost the power and dream job” (but he kept love and family in his life). I hate that the implication is supposed to be that he lost it all. (And he didn't as a person, but narratively it looks that way).

It does make me feel better to see so many takes that point out that even though he is devastated now, he is free. That was my first thought when it faded to black. He (the person) is free. He doesn’t feel that way, but he didn’t go into the water. I suppose we can see that as Kendall winning but losing, but I don’t think that it’s entirely congruent with this theory because Kendall doesn’t feel that he won at all within the narrative. Person-wise, it’s true that the poison has been cut off at the source (I think Jeremy might feel it’s too late, but I say life is long). He’s out of the cage, even though he wanted to stay in. Eventually, he will get up from that bench and keep living. I believe he can heal, even if it’s not completely. I do acknowledge Jeremy’s quote that it will be the defining moment of his life. He won’t just “get over it” because he thought CEO was the place to find self-worth. Of course, it’s really not and wouldn’t have fully done that for him either. But speaking as though he is a real person rather than a character within a narrative, he can heal. We know Kendall- he always thinks of something ❤️

Which brings me to:

2. Jesse’s Essential Self Theory

“People’s essential selves don’t change” has been Jesse’s major philosophy throughout the whole show. He’s said it again and again. And yet, within less than two weeks, season four posits that Kendall “becomes” Logan and goes against every moral he has. A complete turnaround for his character. Most of those decisions were made in desperate moments and were born of despair or anger, like going back on the confession and calling the election, so I could say it wasn’t meant to be a permanent change and therefore aligns with this philosophy- but it seems to be implied that he changes irrevocably within this narrative. He walks with Colin behind him and that was intended to be the end before Jeremy made one more moment happen. The direct comparison to Logan is unmissable and I thought it seemed to run against what Jesse believes is human nature- that peoples essential selves don't change. In this show, the siblings do take detours away from their natures, but they always come back to their essential selves. So we should have seen the same with Kendall. A spark or hope or classic Ken phrase on a Stewy phone call after a small time jump, something.

Because we missed out on the return to his essential self but everyone else had one, I can’t believe that a supposed transformation like that over the course of a week and half is permanent, even narratively. I do understand that there are terrible things a person can do that can’t be undone, but I don’t think his entire personality just did a 180 forever. Person-wise, Kendall just lost his father, the center of his world, a week ago. Kendall just lost a recovered dream he’s had since he was seven and thought was gone. His sister is the one who took it. Kendall’s input was required for a presidential election that could change the course of history the moment that he found out he was being betrayed. To say the understatement of the year, that is a completely unthinkable week.

So I don’t accept even narratively that Kendall is all of a sudden permanently a violent, unthinking, uncaring person who says NRPI. He just isn’t. It doesn’t fit the philosophy to suddenly become that. In my view, what happened was that he behaved in out-of-character ways. People do out of character things when they are grieving- and he’s barely been able to do that at all, by the way! Succession makes the point very clearly that the societal problems come when the personal decisions of these characters are magnified to affect the world because they are so wealthy and powerful. Kendall Roy making a snap decision out of anger at Shiv talking to Matsson means maybe a fascist got elected. If he were someone else, that feeling would only result in a cold shoulder to his sister and would be understandable. The ramifications are horrible (and yes, he is aware of them), but the reactions themselves seem human, not indicative of a new evil nature.

While I don’t think the following are obvious returns to the essential self, I can think of two interpretations that might work narratively? Mostly I just think they skipped this and I object, but I’m trying to find it:

While Kendall did say the car accident didn’t happen, essentially implying NRPI (which was gutting after he was horrified at Logan saying the same thing in 2x10), he also was so furious at Roman saying his kids weren’t real that he attacked him. Kendall, defender against violence for the entire show, attacked his brother, who he’s been protecting their entire lives.

My point is he still feels so passionately about his kids that he would do perhaps the most out-of-character thing of all. I don’t mean to justify that violence. I just see a hint of his essential self there even though what he’s doing is the opposite of what he would normally do. The action is wrong but the intention to defend his kids is right and in line with his long-term character and essential self. My interpretation of that interaction is more generous than Jeremy’s, but I think that specific part of his soul is actually still there. He can’t hear NRPI about his children. Just like he was horrified when Logan said NRPI about the waiter, he is still horrified when Roman basically says NRPI about his kids. If he’d really lost his soul, he would have let that go.

The second one is when he’s sitting on that bench, there’s no more anger, no violence. In fact, he’s almost identical to how he was in 1x06. Devastated that he lost. Untethered. Vulnerable. Essentially, not Logan. But circumstances are not personalities or essential selves. So this one doesn’t really work for me either.

Regardless, as person rather than a character in a narrative, even though he doesn’t see it (yet?), at that point he’s finally, actually free.

#kendall roy #succession #succession season 4 #succession spoilers #jesse armstrong

[zalrb]

Who is your favorite Roy sibling and why?

It's between Kendall and Roman, I'm not sure which. For a while I thought it was just Kendall, I'm not sure when I realized that Roman was up there too, I think it was season 3 when I ended up writing a "in defence of Roman" post and someone was like you never defend any of the siblings but you defended Roman, you're a Roman apologist who knew, lmao. And then for a while I thought it was just Roman ad then I did my rewatch and I was like, no Kendall's up there too.

In terms of why, with the caveat that everyone on this show is a piece of shit, I sympathize with Tom's sentiment about Kendall, "I've seen you get fucked a lot, and I've never seen Logan get fucked once", I root for Kendall to win over Logan every time and I think Jeremy imbues such pain and earnestness in Kendall, like the acting for that character is excellent.

With Roman, I like how layered he is despite not seeming so at a first glance, I think that while Kendall is the most outwardly vulnerable sibling, Roman has a crushing vulnerability to him that's unfortunately leads him to be manipulated by Logan in ways the others aren't, I also like that he's a dark horse, he makes some really rash decisions but he also has good instincts and if he took Gerri's tutelage seriously, I think he could've been a beast.

Basically, the reasons why both characters are a fave can also be summed up here:

[irish-urn]

You are most certainly NOT talking out if your ass and I fucking love that you referenced Gilmore Girls because YES, EXACTLY. 90% of the time, Lorelai and Rory get along swimmingly– because they're friends before anything. But as soon as there's even a slight disagreement, Lorelai treats it as if it's WW3. We see this as early as EPISODE ONE. and Rory, rightfully so, does not take well to her mother acting like a mother. And yes, she was a teen mom, and yes she did leave an emotionally abusive situation (I know Emily and Richard got better but BIG yikes early on) and I know she really did grow up with Rory– all of that is valid, BUT by doing all of that, Lorelai needs to face the consequences of her actions which she doesn't do. She just expects Rory to listen to her when she's in Mom Mode.

(There are a crazy amount of parallels between Gilmore Girls and LWD and I'm kinda freaking out because I've never come across someone else who's seen it. Derek really is a mixture between Logan and Jess GAH NO WONDER I LOVE HIM SO MUCH)

But!!!!!! It's so realistic (I'm the same anon who comes from a blended family) I DID have the mom who treated me more like a friend than a daughter. I DID have the mom who got remarried and who's kids were kind of shuffled off to the side because she was too busy with life, and her new marriage, etc. etc. (Not trying to trauma dump here just trying to say how realistic I feel like LWD is 😂) and I WAS the asshole daughter who just raised an eyebrow on the rare occasion that my mom tried to discipline me.

I can go on for hours about how perfectly dysfunctional the McDonald-Venturi's are.

(Let me be clear, I do think everyone is happy and everything worked out. But YIKES, G&N did NOT think through their marriage and their current relationships with their children before they tied the knot.)

YES LET'S CONTINUE YELLING AT EACH OTHER IN EPIC-LONG RESPONSES.

(If these are different anons, that's cool too!!! I'm just laughing at how we're literally writing essays to each other — I love it, but it's funny.)

OKAY, so there are so many things here I want to respond to, and it's gonna be a big ol' mess because now we're talking about two of my favourite TV shows at the same time.

SO. Lorelai Gilmore is a very good mom in many ways, especially in how she almost always puts Rory first. She very obviously considers Rory in almost everything she does (a couple of exceptions being her love life, but Rory's 16 before that happens, and Lorelai is kinda rusty with the dating-thing, and honestly, flaws make characters interesting) and has tried her best to ensure that their life together is as different as possible from HER childhood because, yes, emotional abuse and trauma is there for sure. BUT, in creating a family that is so vastly different from her upbringing, she's gone to the opposite extreme, so that they can be co-dependent on each other, AND, yeah, Lorelai doesn't do well when Rory thinks things very differently than Lorelai (see the whole Jess thing, and her relationship with Emily and Richard). She's not a perfect parent, but she ADORES Rory.

Is the biggest difference between Lorelai and Nora&George that Lorelai was always a single parent, and G&N are divorcees, or is it that Lorelai only had Rory while N&G had multiple children? Maybe both? Either way, all three of them obviously love their kids and are trying to raise them... But, like, there's a lot of letting the kids raise themselves because they're too overwhelmed to give the effort/time needed (and I would argue that Derek needs a lot more raising than Casey; here's another question: is that because of who George and Abby are, because there's 3 kids instead of 2, because there's such an age gap between Marti and Edwin (and therefore, Derek), or because of who Derek is as a person?). And, again, I'm not hating on them for this or calling them terrible people. They're not; they're very human. But it makes for interesting discussions and critical analyses.

NOW. Is Derek a combination of Jess and Logan???? Uh. Wow. Yes. Damn.

Okay, so for all that I'm a MASSIVE Literati shipper, I actually like Logan as a character very much. He amuses me and I think he's interesting. The reason I ship Jess/Rory is because I like who Rory is with Jess more than who she is with Logan. I like that Jess sees Rory's flaws, will call her out on them, and then encourage her to fix her problems, give advice, and try to help her be the best version of herself that she can be (a LOT of this only happens in Season 6 and the Revival, but that's because Jess is finally okay enough to offer that kind of support), all the while working on himself to be the best version of himself that he can be. He wants them to grow together and bloom and thrive. Logan always struck me as seeing Rory's flaws and saying, 'Hey, cool, you're just as flawed as me;' and instead of trying to work on them together, he used it as justification for him to continue on his merry way. If they're both selfish, entitled, ambitious, fun-seeking hotties, then there's no need to improve, because they're in the same boat. He wants them to stay just the way they are, because he's happy with the way things are.

Wow, never done a critical analysis like that before, but here we are.

THEREFORE: Although I realize that high-school Derek is more of a Logan than a Jess (although there is a LOT of Jess traits in there too), I think I write adult!Derek more like Season 6 Jess with the Logan gift of gab and faux-casualness because that's how I see him maturing when he's working on becoming the best version of himself. I am a romantic at heart, I think, and so my college-verse is a bit of a "in a perfect world, Casey and Derek would understand each other and work as a team to grow as they go" (blatantly quoting Ben Platt there, but that song nails a good part of what I think a healthy relationship is). Casey is only a Rory in that they're both nerds and keeners and a little clumsy, but they are very different and I like that. :)

THE OTHER THING is thank you for some insight into the realism of this kind of parent-child relationship. It's fascinating to me, who doesn't think of her mom as her friend at all, even though she is probably one of my best friends, but I would never call her that, because she's first and foremost my mother.

(Dad is def DAD. He's amazing and I'm so lucky to have him and his wisdom and his consideration, but he is not my friend. He's my father.)

FINALLY: I do think that the McTuris are happy and that overall, the family did work out, yes!! But, yeah, like you, the lack of consideration on how to blend the families and how to make it easier on the kids (especially the older ones who aren't as adaptable as the younger ones, and who probably feel entitled to a lot of say in what happens to their family) is, uh... problematic.

#asks #life with derek #gilmore girls #THIS IS SO MUCH FUN #i am LOVING this kind of analysis #it reminds me of my english major days

[monzabee]

https://www.tumblr.com/monzabee/720028205435781120/thankk-youu-like-till-10th-grade-i-was-so-sure

Yess that’s true! I knowww I do find law interesting. at first I was thinking I might do my under grad and then do a 5 year law thing but then as I researched and studied a bit of it i thought it was a lot and like you said the exceptions are crazy soo now if I do choose to pursue law then it’ll be post grad but idk let’s see how it all goes haha 😂 yess and also the vibes of old songs just hit different!!

Ooh I’m definitely team Jess all the way !! I know we’ve not seen THAT much of them but they were so cute!! Like I love how he had the whole idc about anyone but her tbing but then eventually we see that he starts caring for Luke and all too plus I think they were good influences on each other like how he brought out a bit of a more adventurous side from her and they both liked the same type of music and books and stuff and did I mention they were CUTE TOGETHER!! in s1 I did like dean because he was this cute, sweet caring bf but as the season passed I just liked him less specially after the whole cheating thing and Logan is nice so far but Jess and Rory >>> what about youu who do you ship the most with Rory? (Phew that was long 😅)

Ooh that’s good that you could find that mistake, you’re already having a great start !!! And that all sounds very lawyer esque, is this by any chance a part of corporate law ? Or some other kind of law ? Anyways I hope that it’s a good ,fun and learning experience for you💜 !!

Also omgg you’re working on the Vettel!reader fic I LOVE that series so much and I’m looking forward to reading the new addition whenever you publish it 💖🌟

-💖

it takes 5 year there??😭 girl that's a very long time if you don't include undergrad, you could go to med school instead😭 postgrad could be interested if you want to pursue it after psychology though!! you can focus on criminal law and sentencing👀

I'M SO GLAD YOU'RE TEAM JESS😭 i think he is very misunderstood but also a very realistic portrayal of a teenage boy?? i saw a tiktok which said that when they are younger rory is too good for jess, but towards the end jess is too good for rory🫣 i love his character development so much and i hope you like it when you see it too💜🥹 logan is too iconic in my opinion, he is a rich douche at the beginning but as you watch he's a really cute guy😭 i can't choose between jess or logan, but my fav definitely not dean🙃

thank you for your good wishes bestie! it is kind of, i would say! we are dealing with companies and their affairs, but it's not purely corporate as it deals more with investment bankin and stuff like venture capital etc🥲 it took me a while to realise this this morning though, i should probably go over my notes😂 did you have any interesting internship opportunities ,n the past??👀

it's taking me way too long, but i hope to finish it soon🥹💜

#monzabeeasks #💖anon

[literatikoo]

Lane Kim deserved better

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I would only write Lane Kim meta when I am very very angry because I need to be powered by spite and petty energy to unravel exactly how much of a disservice this show was to Lane and by extension any Asian kid with a similar life. And, well, it's happening now, so buckle up kids, this is going to be a loooong ride because I have a lot to say.

Before we start on the negative aspects, the show got a lot of things about Lane right, which is why I care so much about her character. Yes, ASP obviously didn't know how to write a POC experience and it's seen in the way some very harmful stereotypes were propagated (the tiger mom trope, Mrs Kim's religious beliefs, the depiction of the Kim extended family etc) but at the same time Lane was beautifully written as a character, unlike her plot which left much to be desired. Lane Kim was an Asian girl with rock n roll dreams who had an extremely fraught relationship with her mother and had to fight for even a semblance of independence. And I hate to say it but a lot of daughters of Asian households are forced to hide a part of themselves from their families, so Lane's story was authentic.

Not only was Lane amazing as an individual, she was also a great friend. She was the only one who was really in Rory's corner; she never judged her and supported all of Rory's relationships (my favourite example of this is when she barely tolerated Jess in S2/3 and then did a complete 180 like 5 episodes later, all because Rory decided to finally accept she liked him). Lane never pointed out what Rory was doing wrong not because she was afraid of doing so but because the two of them had been friends for years and Lane believed that Rory would figure it out one day. Lane shows this unconditional kindness not only to Rory but to everyone. She takes in her Korean cousin and teaches her to have fun even when she's afraid that Mrs Kim has replaced her, she lets Gil be in the band because she empathises with him, she takes care of the band and prevents it from breaking up multiple times. And these are only a few examples of Lane being the kindest character on GG.

One of the best things in Gilmore Girls is that the most unproblematic, amazing guy is given to Lane. Dave Rygalski is the best love interest on the show hands down (Sorry to my boy Jess but Dave was LEAGUES ahead of him at 17) and Lane definitely deserved someone like that. Their story was adorable and I would have loved for them to be endgame. However, what grates me is that when I see people talking about Lane "deserving better," it's usually about Dave vs Zach. When Lane actually deserved better as a WHOLE and not only in terms of love interests. I always thought it made more sense for her to end up alone at the end of the og series. Because Lane was a person who craved independence and she was not going to get that while tied to some guy (even if that guy is boyfriend extraordinaire, Dave Rygalski). It's even worse when we see that Lane is the only female character on the show to be treated this way. Rory rejects marriage for her career while Lane ends up with marriage as her storyline. Lorelai and Luke get back together but their relationship is still left open ended, though arguably it would've made more sense if they got married when Lane and Zach did. Paris gets into Harvard Medical school and gets a great relationship, similarly Sookie gets the family she wanted and continues to be amazing at her job. But Lane... god Lane is the only one without an open ending, without any space for speculation of where her life might lead her. Not only did they marry her off, they also gave her a terrible first time and twins, effectively locking her to Stars Hollow. The show even cut down all hope of her being a rock n roll mom as one of her S7 storylines is choosing the kids over going on tour with Zach. She doesn't get to be her own person for more than ONE season; she's stuck with being a daughter and then a wife and then a mother.

Something else that angers me about Lane's storyline is that we never really get to see how badly her relationship with her mom affects her. Don't get me wrong, I adore Mrs Kim's redemption arc and I think it was beautifully juxtaposed to Lorelai and Rory's crumbling relationship, but having a mother like that is hard. Not only did Lane have to hide 90% of her personality from Mrs Kim but she also lived with the fact that one day she might have to choose between her dreams and her mother. In the end, Mrs Kim makes that choice for her and deals with it by kicking Lane out in S4, and yet we never really see how that negatively affects Lane. Hell, Jess acts like a broody teen for two seasons, Rory wastes six months of her life away at the DAR and they both come out of it successfully. Lane gets kicked out, figures out her own living conditions, gets a job, works insanely hard for her band and... ends up having to give her dreams up completely.

Lane and Paris shared a lot of similarities too, even if they both had different friendships with Rory. They both came from terrible families and looked to Lorelai as a mother figure, they both cared deeply for Rory, and they were both incredibly passionate about their careers. Paris made calendars and flashcards and went crazy studying for both pre med and pre law. Lane was a walking, talking music encyclopaedia, she bought CDs obsessively and organised them by genre under her floorboards, she taught herself to play the drums and then found a band to play for. And yet... only Paris becomes successful in the end, whereas Lane takes over Kim's antiques. Lane was still a musician in AYITL and she can be rock n roll even with kids but this is all hypothetical and we never see it on the show.

There is a lot of terrible, lazy writing on the show and a lot of characters get ruined because of it but with Lane, her character stays the same, they just ruin everything else for her. I think she'll be an amazing mom and will probably make her best out of doing music casually. But the writers also took something so special and destroyed it just because Lane stopped being as important to the plot as she was in seasons 1-3. Lane and Rory drifting a little after Rory leaves for Yale makes perfect sense, that's just how relationships are, always changing. And yet as Lane's importance to Rory decreased so did her importance to the writers.

Lane wasn't the kind of character that needed character development or a redeeming character arc- she was never a bad person and nothing about her had to be fixed, unlike Jess or even Paris. All she really needed was for her dreams to come true because for the first 4 seasons her dreams were the biggest fixture of her personality. Like how Jess needed to overcome his trauma and Rory needed to figure out where she fit in and Paris needed to become a girlboss, Lane needed to realise her dreams because that's where her arc was leading her. But it just didn't happen. Instead, Lane becomes 2-dimensional; a large part of her screentime is taken up by Zach problems, her dreams fall flat and she becomes tied to Stars Hollow for the rest of her life. Not to mention we see less of Lane in favour of Logan and the dickhead posse.

This is not me hating on all the other characters I've mentioned in this meta, I'm just pointing out the lack of respect the writers have for Lane in comparison to all these other people who fulfilled the role they were made for. Why would you write Lane to have all these dreams and make her struggle so hard for 4 seasons just to smash them to pieces? And why is it that one of the only POC characters on this show is treated like this?

And you can't tell me the writers didn't know what they were doing, not when this is a direct quote from Lane in S7:

"It was such a small window -- a peephole, really. For years, I was this repressed kid, and then there was the briefest of windows. And then -- slam. All of a sudden, I'm this overburdened mother. I barely got to do it, Zach. I barely got the chance to be a person."

#gilmore girls #gilmore girls meta #lane kim #lane kim meta #mrs kim #rory gilmore #jess mariano #lorelai gilmore #paris geller #lane x dave #amy sherman palladino #anti lane x zach #anti zach van gerbig #in the end paris and rory got a lot of their opportunities because they are rich privileged white women #and if lane got opportunities like that she would’ve grown wildly successful #i always saw paris as a raging lesbian #and yet!! her and doyle's divorce meant less to me than zach and lane's

[roeyliteratiforever]

Something I've been thinking about is when Jess says he knows Rory better than anyone and people saying "well how could he know her best when he hasn't seen her, he's implying that he knows her better than Lorelai" as some anti's like to phrase but that is actually pretty true to an extent! Lorelai may know Rory really well but it seems at certain points Lorelai has her blinders on when it comes to Rory's feelings. She has a tendency to invalidate Rory's feelings at times, I don't think she does it on purpose, but as a result I think Rory just ends up burying her feelings until she starts falling apart basically. For instance her total disregard to Rory's feelings when she was with Jess, as she didn't understand her relationship with Jess, and since she hated Jess she just didn't care to hear about how she felt about him. There were times where she did try to be there for Rory during her relationship with Jess but she never extended the same arm she did when she was with Dean and it made Rory feel more closed up with her feelings when it came to Jess. She just dismissed Rory's relationship with Jess pretty much as it being a phase and didn't realize how much she was really hurting from it! Lorelai did notice she was hurt when Babette was talking about Jess, and asked her what she was thinking about after he came back, and she said I'm thinking about nothing. But when she actually sees him you can see how much she is actually really hurting. When she has her little run in with Jess when he dropped the bomb and ran, she told him she thought about this moment hundreds of times meaning she thought about him a lot and she just let it all out all those emotions, and you could see how hurt she actually was. When she first saw him in Stars Hollow again after he left she looked so hurt everytime she saw him, and even was like I can't deal with this right now, and left. Later when Jess pours his heart out to Rory, and in a desperate attempt to try to save their relationship asks her to run away with him, after she said no and he left she fell to the boxes and just started crying. She was still hurting so much from Jess! Rory is really good at bottling up her feelings when she needs to, and even when she does that a lot of times it seems Lorelai has her blinders on when it comes to how Rory is feeling. After the situation that happened with Dean and Lorelai blamed her for it, she went out on the steps to cry. She wasn't just crying about that she was deeply hurting so much, over Jess, the stresses of college, and now she feels so horrible for what happened with Dean she just breaks down. It just seems like she should have been able to see how Rory was feeling, and she doesn't seem to notice how she is doing until she has a breakdown.

Even later on in the show after Rory drops out of yale, I mean of course Logan didn't notice how unhappy she was, and I understand Lorelai was hurt over the situation but I don't think shutting her out was the right move. She had her dreams crushed, and she felt even her own boyfriend believed she didn't have what it took to make it in journalism and this is something she had been working towards forever and that's all she knew at that point was journalism and she was really discouraged, hurt, and depressed just like Jess was when he was told he wasn't going to be able to graduate. It was the exact same thing. Jess started spiraling after he got discouraged, and in the same way Rory did too. When shit started rolling downhill for them it really started rolling and Jess had to get to rock bottom to start coming back up again, and Rory kind of did too, but it was Jess who was able to get her out of her funk. Why? Because he lived it too! He went through the exact same thing. As soon as Jess saw her he was able to see how unhappy she was, and how she wasn't being herself. He became so worried about her that's why he had that talk with her because he genuinely cared how she was doing. He noticed right away, and after he has that talk with her that was the conversation that made her reflect on herself and what she was doing with her life. He just simply told her this isn't you, and asked her why she dropped out of yale to get her thinking about it, so she could ask herself that question. The fact that Jess who had nothing going for him at the time and was in a really bad place turned his life around and wrote a book was an extreme encouragement for her because she was like if he could do it then maybe I can do it too! Another example is when she skipped school to see him in New York he asks her why she came there because it wasn't her, and she ends up reflecting on the situation and quickly realized that wasn't her and it didn't work for her because she was out of her element. The way he told her he couldn't have done it without her because she inspired him, and he inspired her to continue following her dreams. The way when she came to see him in Philly he could see how much happier she was (minus the Logan cheating on her thing) but he could tell she was doing better for herself! I feel like this is a pattern Jess is able to see Rory in ways that Lorelai somehow cannot. I'm not saying he 100 % knows her better than Lorelai, but in some ways he really does because they have THAT connection with each other! Even in the revival Rory was in a burn out, on top of grieving the loss of her grandfather and as a result it started affecting her personal life, and professional life. What gets me is that even then Lorelai still didn't seem to notice how Rory was feeling she had her blinders on again. Rory expresses to her mom how she was doing, and she feels like she is failing at everything and Lorelai is in total shock really, but Jess sees her one time, and he instantly can see how miserable she was. He was able to see Rory in ways that Lorelai could not! I love how she is able to just express herself with Jess, it's just that connection they have! He then gives her more inspiration and tells her to write a book and he says she should write about her and her mom. Jess really does know her in a way better than anyone else, even at times Lorelai it seems especially when it comes to Rory's emotional state. No one else could see how she was spiraling and falling apart but Jess could see through her right away! They have THAT connection, they just GET each other! I don't know I'm just ranting I'm sorry if this is all over the place, but I was just having a lot of thoughts. In some ways I really do feel like Jess knows her better than anyone so when he says that it's really true in many ways! He is the only one in her life who can really see how she's truly feeling when she is falling apart, and the only one who knows how to help her every time!

#rory x jess #jess and rory #literati #gilmore girls #jess mariano #jess x rory #rory and jess #rory gilmore #milo ventimiglia #alexis bledel #team jess

[pynkhues]

Important succession question: was Nate dating Shiv first and then became friends with Kendall or was Nate friends with Kendall and then started dating Shiv? I cannot express how much both options fascinate me

Anon, this is a question that lives rent free in my head! One of the things I find especially interesting is that Tom actually knows him as a friend of Kendall's before he knows he's anything to Shiv at all. Like this:

Happens before this:

Which kind of does make it seem like maybe Kendall's talked about Nate in more contexts than Shiv has, which is particularly interesting given Kendall seemingly didn't mention that he dated his sister, haha.

But yes! As to who met who first, I think there are two questions that really impact how you can speculate that: first, what you think the age gap between Shiv and Kendall is (I'm a golden-trio-are-close-in-age truther, so I tend to put it as four years max), and when you think Kendall was in Shanghai.

The latter question is one I've seen contested a lot - I know a few people who think it was probably after rehab as a sort of exile like Roman being sent to LA was / an extension of 'you send the weak one away', but I actually think the show kind of gave us the answer for that when Logan was seriously looking to bring Shiv into the company.

I strongly suspect that he's basing that loosely off what he took Kendall through, minus a few things (like we know that Kendall got his MBA at Harvard and that he interned at Logan's papers, because he mentions it in Dundee, etc.) and likely with a condensed timeline just because of Kendall and Logan's respective ages at the time Kendall was going through it.

In my master timeline that I'll one day actually post, haha, I tend to put Kendall as having been born in 1979/1980 (s1 of the show is specifically set in 2018, and Kendall turns 40 in s3 which I think is meant to be roughly a year later). If that's the case, I think an estimate of Kendall's professional history would be:

at Harvard 1997-2002

Starting at Waystar and learning from Gerri/Baird/Frank/Karl for probably a few years, not one, lets say three or four, so that takes us through to about 2006. Kendall marries Rava in about 2004 too, so that fits neatly into this period as well.

Shanghai maybe 2007-2008

UK for a while, let's say through 2010.

Back for six months of management training

In roughly 2011 he's shadowing his father

2015 we know was rehab, which was a spanner in the works.

Then 2016-2018 was him back to shadowing his father with the view to take over.

That would put Kendall at about 28 while they were in Shanghai, and then poses the new question of how you think Kendall met Nate if not through Shiv.

I don't think Nate ever worked at Waystar, because I think it would've come up, so that's off the table. If you go with my rough estimate of Shiv being about 24 then, she would've graduated college herself and maybe met Nate interning then connected him and Ken when Ken was alone in Shanghai, but that doesn't really seem like something Shiv would do. Nate could've gone to college with either one of them too, but then that doesn't seem to really fit with the way he's talked about either.

I tend to lean towards Kendall knowing Nate first, and I tend to think they probably actually met in Shanghai? Given Nate's career path, I think you could make the argument that he was working somewhere like the US Embassy & Consulate in Shanghai which would make sense as to why Gil hired him and also put him pretty neatly in Kendall's orbit both professionally and personally.

After that, I kind of think it would be a pretty clear path as to Shiv meeting him, especially because Kendall's the only one who really seems to bring outsiders-in in that way like he's done with Stewy, Jess and Naomi.

But of course, that's a lot of speculation, haha. It's a really fun one to think about though - the show does such an awesome job of just dropping in these details that hint at so much storyworld.

What do you think though?

#i think if nate worked at the embassy too it would've been like #the sort of neat strategic thing which made kendall feel like he was playing logan correctly #which also makes sense for that sort of time period #nate sofrelli #kendall roy #shiv roy #tom wambsgans #kendall + nate #nate + shiv #hbo succession #succession meta #speculation #welcome to my ama

[saltygilmores]

Thoughts While Watching Gilmore Girls- Season 1, Episode 21 (Love, Daisies, and Troubadors) Part THREE.

Please check out my pinned post for the rest of season 1 as well as part 1 & 2 of this season finale. We resume our regularly scheduled program, which is Buttzilla Forrester in the middle of a jealous rage, trying to manipulate RoryGil (who isn't even his girlfriend anymore, by the way).

I HATE IT when Rory apologizes to Dean like this and she's done literally nothing wrong! It's so sad. My feelings about later seasons Rory are...a mixed bag to say the least, but I will defend Season 1 Rory with all my might.

Gaslighting: to manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity. Buttzilla: Your boyfriend's waiting. RoryGil: He's not my boyfriend, I hate him! Buttzilla: Whatever. Biggest fictional piece of shit on the planet. Literal dogshit stuck to the bottom of your shoe. RG: Dean, stop! Buttzilla: Why. RG, Pained and Unconvincing: Cause I love you, you idiot. You know there are literal people that find this exchange romantic? Not many,as The Dean Forrester fandom is small and they seem to know their place and not emerge from the shadows. But they exist. Uh oh. I hear corny music... it's happening...

Alexis is frozen solid. She is not moving. Her mouth isn't moving. Her hands are not moving. Her spine is stiff. I don't even need to post pics or gifs of her kissing Milo to compare the two, we've all seen them.

Easy there, JarPad! Release that poor girl from your kung-fu grip! Screen shots don't illustrate the frantic speed in which he is mashing his mouth against hers either. Oh no, now we're getting into the closeups. I'm so sorry for doing this. I hope you can forgive me.

She's a woman, not a lemon! Jesus christ! The vein in his neck is throbbing.

If you would like me to further ruin your Thanksgiving, imagine this following disturbing but absolutely true scenario: Rory and Dean sleep together. Dean refuses to go down on her, fucks her for 15 seconds, finishes and has this same stupid smile on his face, all "was it good for you baby?" and Rory's like "Sure, you did great, tiger." and he believes it. Also Lindsay. Poor Lindsay. #JusticeForLindsay Ugh. I survived. We all survived. Ya'll okay? Diet Logan witnesses this and puts down Rory's books, probably traumatized into being a better person, because I know I was close to promising I'd find Jesus if only that kiss would mercifully end. We cut to the Indepdence Inn and Michel and Kirk arguing because Max took Lorelai's "1,000 yellow daisies" suggestion very, very literally and the Inn is now filled with fucking flowers. Kirk Job: Flower delivery man. Lorelai stands there in stark silence admiring the daisies while Michel calls daisies "Pitiful little things, a notch up from weeds", which is also what I think of Dean Forrester. This relationship is going to LAST....! ...For about another four episodes. Max: I didn't propose to you because we were fighting. I proposed because I love you. Lorelai:

"Help. Me." MM: We're in a bad pattern Lorelai, and we have to break it. That's why you proposed to end an argument, got rejected, didn't have any discussion about it whatsoever like grown ups, pretended it didn't happen, took an off the cuff suggestion she gave you way too literally, then waited exactly one more day to propose a second time. Goes into a blathering Mediocre English Teacher Speech about how books just can't compare to real life blah blah blah. Look, in my occasional headcanon where Jess Mariano grows up to become an English teacher he would never be this fucking pretentious. Lorelai: "God you talk so good." To be fair, he doesn't exactly propose to her over the phone, he's all "think it over" but this thing with the daisies feels really manipulative. How the hell is she gonna say no now? Lorelai bursts into Luke's Diner. Luke: Ahhh, you made me spill. He said the same thing while he was fixing her porch rail.

Cute.

"I just got manipulated back into a shitty relationship wtih a shitty male!" "Me too Mom! Me too! This is so exciting!" Happy Thanksgiving!

#gilmore girls #lorelai gilmore #rory gilmore #denise rewatches gilmore girls #gilmore girls season 1 #love daisies and troubadors #luke danes #max medina #a thousand yellow daisies #kirk jobs

[buffysummers]

I agree about Logan bringing out her sense of adventure and I’d be into her loosening up and exploring that part of herself but he mostly just gets her into dumb shit, like so much random unnecessary stealing??I haven’t rewatched the series in a long time now so the exact examples are fuzzy just my irritation remains lol but I just remember feeling annoyed that Rory who already kind of sucked at dealing with anything that didn’t go her way or was hard was getting influenced to further just blow things up and run away.

Hmmm, if you're referring to when she steals the boat, I'd say that's more on her than Logan. Logan COULD have talked her out of it, for sure. And she was really only there with the opportunity to steal a boat because of her relationship with him. But I don't really think it's fair to place the blame on Logan.

I do thing he struggled with her dropping out of Yale. He told her that it wasn't her, that he knows she loves school too much and she will be back. He didn't have to support her or make her feel comfortable about it, but I honestly don't think he really knew what to do. He had never been in any longterm relationships before. Like, he'd just sleep around basically. So, perhaps he thought he was doing the right thing by being supportive no matter what.

It can be perceived that he was condoning bad behavior from her, and both instances tie directly into her not knowing how to deal with criticism. But I don't really think he knew her that well. Like, he liked her and knew what her interests were, but he wasn't really well-versed in her history with her mother or the way she was raised or any of that to fully understand why she behaved and acted out so drastically.

I think this is why she didn't listen to him when he told her that he knows her and he knows she won't stick to this Yale thing. Because, while she was falling for him, she still knew there was some kind of disconnect between the girl he sees and the girl she was and still is. The girl from Stars Hollow with big aspirations of traveling the world and being a journalist. The perfect girl placed on a pedestal by an entire town.

I think that's why she listens to Jess. No one else got through to her EXCEPT for Jess. While Lorelai knows Rory the best in a lot of ways, I think there was something very powerful between Rory and Jess because Jess understood the essence of who she is, if that makes sense? Her love of books, the escapism and the thrill of them, and Jess never trivialized it and instead connected in the same way. Jess saw her existing in two worlds at the same time, and while he may have challenged her at times, he never judged her. He just saw her, understood her, and made her feel found and seen. So, when HE tells her that this isn't who she is, that she doesn't just drop out of Yale like that, that he knows something is up with her so why is she pretending, what is she running from? She finally felt like a fraud and dropped the act because he saw through her. It's very powerful.

Sorry for the rant but long story short, I don't really think it's Logan's fault like he may not have handled things perfectly but he did his best.

#anonymous #answered #gilmore girls #it's so hard not to bring up literati when talking about rogan and vice versa lol

[literatigifs]

anonymous asked: Hi! I have been wondering your take on this opinion that I've been seeing. Lately it feels like team Logan is growing, and I've been seeing a lot of people say how much Logan fought for Rory even though he messed up whereas they think Jess didn't fight for her. What do you think of people saying Logan fought for Rory, but Jess didn't?

I am answering this way too late and I apologize for that.

I feel like this argument gets thrown around a lot for something that honestly doesn't have any basis in it, since frankly, all the examples people mention that are used as proof of Logan "fighting" for Rory are either Logan harassing or pestering her even when she makes it clear several times that she wants him to stop doing so, both after their "break" and in their relationship once she found out about the bridesmaids, and moments that actually could've been used as a proper example of him "fighting" for their relationship like the end of season 7 or even the revival, neither have him actually trying to salvage their relationship or connection in a proper way.

Specifically, after their argument in Balalaikas, Rory goes on to think that they're currently on a 'break' from each other because she wants some time away from Logan and for herself and he, after berating her in a bar, has made no attempt to contact her whatsoever. Even when she finds out that they're apparently broken up, it's not through him, but through his sister, who didn't even call her to let her in on that, she just called Rory because she felt like it. So basically Logan didn't even attempt to call her himself and let her know that from his point of view, they're actually broken up now. Cut to 2 months later and Logan has now realized that he actually does want Rory back, therefore the only solution for him is to pester her and corner her at her apartment door, in the campus, and have a coffee cart follow her around as one of the ways in which he just tries to "buy her out" and get back together with her. This entire scenario is only seen as romantic by fans because he has the money to ensure that he can buy her all these material items that she still doesn't care enough for, before actually going to her mother in order to convince her to get Rory to give him another chance. Before and after this, Logan makes no attempt to actually get on civil terms with Lorelai in the slightest, and out of like 3 conversations he has with her, two of them have more to do with him wanting to do something in his relationship with Rory than to even attempt to have a better relation to her own mother. And in both these cases, he tries to get to Rory’s better graces or an actual “approval” for him to marry her through her mother.

All of these attempts aren't really about "fighting" for Rory so much as getting to convince her to give him a second chance when he was pretty much the reason as to why they even got to their break/"break up" stage. And in all of this, he doesn't even do the most basic thing of being honest with her and telling her that he actually did sleep with a couple of women while on said break. Once this comes to light he even admits that he didn't plan on telling her because he knew she would be mad. This just makes it clear that Logan isn't actually interested in fighting for Rory or their relationship to be better or stronger, he's mostly just interested in having her, regardless of how she may feel for what he says or does. And this is more or less his tactic for the entirety of season 7 as well, including his proposal to her. A lot of fans want to claim that he "wants best for their relationship" therefore he knows that they should get married, but how does he even come to this conclusion? He doesn't even ask Rory if she wants to get married, he doesn't communicate with her on whether or not they can or should move to a state that's on the other side of the country. He practically makes all of these decisions regarding their relationship on his own, and he never cares enough to ask Rory or even inform her on this. Even the fact that he was supposed to move to London in the summer in season 6 was a secret, and he led Rory to think that they should be planning a whole trip together instead of being honest with her.

Regarding Jess, I feel like even the most infamous scene that a lot of Logan fans love to bring up as a negative example (him asking Rory to come away with him at the end of season 4), is better than a lot of Logan's moments that are like this. Specifically, when Rory staunchly tells Jess that he doesn't want to run away with him, especially after everything has gone on between them in season 4 and his abrupt leave in season 3, he takes her seriously and leaves her alone. He doesn't corner her in her room while he's married to another woman like Dean, before then trying to continue an affair with her, he doesn't corner her at her apartment door like Logan after he himself instigated their entire "break up", further spurred by his complete lack of communication. Jess understands that she wants nothing to do with him and moves on, and I'm frankly so confused as to how any of these fans want to argue that a homeless 19 year-old like Jess should've actually stayed in Stars Hollow to make his relationship with Rory work when he had nowhere to stay by this point and he wasn't going to graduate high-school with the way his life was going. It's not even comparable to Logan's situation further on in season 6/7 because by that point, he's twenty-four, living in a lavish apartment paid for by his father and having full and complete monetary support from his family. And still, he didn’t somehow have the decency to even be communicative to Rory about wanting to marry her in season 7 before dumping her on her graduation? Yeah, he sure seemed to fight for her.

#anti logan huntzberger #anti rogan #gilmore girls #answered #anonymous #i just love how a lot of logan fans show themselves by being so oblivious to how being rich/poor can severely change your mindset on life #nevermind the fact that he's been shown to be rude and inconsiderate towards other people and esp rory #but hey he's not a 17 year old teenager so he isnt fit for being burned at the stake

[anxiouspotatorants]

Re: the point @stellaluna33 brought up, I feel like Logan doesn't actually care all that much about the privilege he has and shows off (I mean, if he did even in season 6, he would've never behaved the way he did with Jess and Marty who are so obviously working-class guys younger than him) so much as that he simply thinks that his life is still much harder because he has the wealth of his family, but on certain conditions (mainly to inherit and then take over the family company). And the general lack of emotional support or presence from his father seems to be a vulnerable spot for him as well. But the thing that gets me about this whole scenario is that, for a situation that Logan feels so defensive over (and one that his fans tend to exagerrate to no end as if every member of his family hates him when a) that is not true, and b) how come Honor came out okay and she's even the older supportive sibling to him?), he never does anything to change it. And mind you, this is the same show where we see *in detail* just how suffocating Lorelai's former home life and relationship with her parents still is. And instead of putting up a "woe is me" act while acting carelessly towards others and herself, she actually decided not to live through that and became completely independent from her parents all while being a minor. Also, I don't mean to demean Mitchum's assholery towards Logan or in general, but if he was so hellbent on not allowing Logan ANY leeway when it came to the "dynastic plan", then why did he just accept Logan leaving the job in season 7? This scene, along with him coming off as way more lenient towards Rory at the end of season 6 after she yelled at him for not visiting Logan, just makes me think that if Logan would stand up to his father and be stern about what he wants, then Mitchum would allow him to do that. I mean, in any case Mitchum would only lose his potential heir, so Logan has more cards up his own sleeve than he even realizes, but he never completely decides to do something for himself (and not on the condition that he fucked up a deal/has Rory as a driving force behind him becoming more responsible).

Yes!!! One thing I really loathe about what I’ve seen and remembered of Logan so far is how he treats Jess and Marty. It’s one thing to be jealous and defensive, but to specifically lash out by singling out their economic status and using it to position himself as above them is just a massive no-no for me. I know Marty turns into a massive nice guy asshole in future episodes and seasons, but even then he shouldn’t be torn down for having a service job instead of trust fund money. When we see Logan in early season 5, he’s not criticizing Marty for being a nice guy, he literally calls Marty less worth than him because of his need for a job alongside studies. Like. How do you put a positive spin on that behaviour? How? Paris can be an elitist jerk at times too, but I haven’t seen her pick on bartenders for being bartenders. If you ask me it’s far cooler than burning money on vague elitist LARPs in the forest that look oddly boring (okay I’m getting bitter and unprofessional :D)

Can’t really speak on his later behaviour though, sadly, as I don’t remember it well enough. One thing I hope for, is that he at least acknowledges what an idiotic asshole thing it is to talk down to service jobs. And while I understand that different people react differently to the same circumstances (aka Logan would never have acted identically to Lorelai, and that’s okay because people need different solutions), I seriously wish he finds some path of his own to stick to. Like something as simple as using part of his trust fund money for good would be a start for me. Sadly what I’ve heard so far makes me assume he just burns it on parties.

#also completely slacking on his Yale education #with those costs?? #with the amount of people begging to get into that school?? #it would be one thing if he actually needed help getting through some classes #or was having a bad mental health period and taking time off to heal #but I don’t think sinking yachts and doing bland champagne rituals in the woods are a legitimate reason #gilmore girls #anti logan huntzberger #gilmore girls discoure #and again IF YOU LIKE LOGAN THAT IS OKAY #hell maybe I’ll warm up to him…. big maybe