#catelyn stark defence squad

[fvckinaphrodite]

You know those fics where Catelyn Tully Stark is depicted as this evil bitch who disrespect the North, its people, its culture, its Gods? That the Northmen hate her because she's one of the southern ladies throughout centuries that become the Lady of Winterfell and believe in the Faith of the Seven? That she somehow always insists for her children to stay away from their direwolves till the end? Where, I ask? Where tf those craps ever written in canon?! WHERE?!

Because I tell you I'm reading A Storm of Swords right now, and I find nothing of those shits. She's always courteous to the Northmen, even those who are huge-rawdy-closer to wildling type and don't give a shit about propriety like Greatjon Umber. She doesn't look down on Maege Mormont who fights just as good as men like those crap fics suggest. When Robb comes back to Riverrun from his campaign in Westerlands and they learn about what she's done, Maege sympathizes with Cat and tells her that she would've done the same if it were her daughters that's been taken. The Greatjon lifts her in the air and tells her some optimistic motivational words about how Robb gonna beat Jaime again. What else, she's horrified when Robb tells her that Grey Wind is not allowed inside the keep because he doesn't like Jeyne Westerling's uncle. She REMINDS Robb that Grey Wind is part of him, and BELIEVES that the Old Gods has sent the direwolves for her children to be their protectors. A chill literally "went through her" when she believes that Jeyne's uncle is not good for her son, all because Grey Wind also doesn't trust him (or as Robb says, "doesn't like the smell of him). She has to beg Robb to send Jeyne's uncle away.

All I'm saying is that, I won't give any Catelyn haters a minute of my life if I can help it. Just say you are a misogynist and be done with it. The fandom really hates her all because she refuses to mother a child that is not her responsiblity, that she owes nothing of. They hate her because she's just trying to save her remaining children--two little girls whom in the eyes of her eldest son worth next to nothing. Robb refuses to save his sisters, and when his mother takes matter in her own hands, they condemn her, as if they wouldn't have done the same thing in her position. It's so easy to see her as the obstacle to Robb's campaign, yet people tend to forget that any decent parent would do the exact same thing. Especially when ASOIAF universe is filled with murdered children.

#catelyn tully #catelyn stark #catelyn tully stark #catelyn tully defence squad #catelyn stark defence squad #pro catelyn stark #asoiaf #asos #a storm of swords #a song of ice and fire #robb stark #house stark #sansa stark #arya stark #got #anti asoiaf fandom #house tully

[saltywinteradult]

i just can’t take people who demonise cat for the one (1) occasion in which we see her acting badly toward jon, ie ”it should have been you”, seriously. her child is in a coma and may well be dying. she’s been sitting by his bedside for weeks. she’s sleep deprived and probably hasn’t been eating enough. she also breaks down crying the second after she says it. but sure, tell me all about what a monster and what an abusive person she is because of one (1) horrible thing she said while out of her mind with grief and stress.

#catelyn stark #catelyn stark defence squad #pro catelyn stark #like yeah that was undeniably a horrible thing to say #but it was also the worst day of her life #well the worst day of her life so far

[alsethwisson]

Catelyn: 'Jon being a bastard raised with his trueborn siblings will cause him to be bitter, resentful, and aspire to more because of said resentment which could hurt my children.'

Jon in his POVs: *is resentful and feels entitled to Cat's love, and is bitter because he will never have the Stark name or Winterfell*

So....Cat was completely right about Jon and fandom still comes for her because she didn't sufficiently mother her husband's supposed affair baby. LOL. Typical.

Cat was wrong when she presumed Jon would usurp her kids. On the other hand, he won't usurp their right mostly to prove Cat wrong...

By the by, funniest thing is, even if Cat somehow came to love Jon -it's possible, if not probable - nothing much would've changed for him apart from our fave sullen boi getting a proper mother figure.

Because no amount of motherly love can make a bastard into a trueborn, that's the sad reality of their life. Cautious glances when he bests Robb, "you can't be the lord of Winterfell", sitting with the servants - all that has nothing to do with Cat and everything with societal norms.

Were he called "brother" by Sansa or "son" by Cat, but still not allowed to wear Stark colours, would it be easier for him? I don't think so.

Jon is a teenager and he doesn't have the apparatus to blame society. He can't blame Ned, because Ned was his loving parent and blaming a loving parent doesn't come easily. So he puts all the blame on Catelyn. And because many people in the fandom have emotional maturity and reading comprehension of a bitter teenager, we have what we have.

#asoiaf meta #asoiaf #i hate fandom #catelyn stark defence squad #catelyn stark #anti jon stans

[sansaissteel]

At least read the books of your going to 🫴🫴 comment 😂

#catelyn stark #cat defence squad #Jon snow

[fedonciadale]

Now imagine dany seeing jon for the first time considering her thoughts on quentyn’s looks. I feel like the fandom are so invested in making sansa and catelyn the shallow ones when other characters get away from the same or worst things. We have catelyn and sansa thinking/talking about the pretty people who turned out being horrible people (not that the ugly ones in sansa’s storyline are good people anyway). Also remember how this fandom loves to spread the lie about sansa liking older men when she thinks 22 is awfully old. Last time I read the books the girl who likes older men is dany, not sansa.

Hi there!

Since Jon is not that good looking in the books he might not make a good impression on Dany. On the other hand his resurrection might give him a genuine rough and wild look, an aura of danger that would definitely attract Dany.

To be quite honest, I think it will depend on how Storm x Storm will play out. Will Euron enslave her dragons with his horn and will he force her as well? Will she realize she's a pawn for his 'I want to become an eldritch being ' plan?

I think it stands to reason that she'll somehow escape his clutches and her escape might change her appreciation of dangerous man. I believe that Euron will possibly fall and fail before her, but it really depends how much time she has left after that.

You know I actually believe that one sided Jon€rys will happen in the books or the whole pain of the betrayal for love (of someone else) doesn't make sense. So, Jon will be attractive to her, either because he has become more dangerous after spending time in Ghost or because Dany herself got a narrow escape with Euron. Dany does not necessarily like older men. She likes danger and violence.

And I agree with you about Cat and Sansa. People tend to forget that Sansa saved Dontos as early as the beginning of book two, that Cat appreciates Brienne. They forget that Ned judged people in how they dressed (you know his fashion sense) or that Jon always registers how people look.

In a way it happens all the time. People who are handsome/beautiful don't have to prove themselves as much. People who are not have to work harder on being accepted. So, people who complain about Cat and Sansa being shallow probably also fall for people because they look good and they don't even want to acknowledge that Cat and Sansa are conscious about this. Cat came to love her plain looking husband and shakes her head at the silly girl that was 'disappointed' and Sansa's favourite story is about Jonquil and 'comely' Florian (and he must have been hideous if the stories call him comely). The only time Sansa fell for looks was Joffrey, and Joffrey was nice to her and she was expected to like him as her betrothed. She grew up in a household where an arranged marriage had let to love and happiness. Can you blame her that she expected this for herself and thought herself lucky that her prince looked handsome?

Fortunately, it is also in the nature of humans that once you know and like people it's not that important any longer how they look. And many stories are about this. I mean, we are told mit to judge by appearances from early on. So, there's hope for all of us. 😁

#anon ask #Sansa Stark #Sansa Stark defence squad #Anti Sansabuts #catelyn stark #DarkDany #looks and character in ASOIAF

[fvckinaphrodite]

I cannot understand the rationale of "Good Stepmother Elia" or "Catelyn loves Jon Snow" fics where, because of the patriarchal and oppressive institutions, Elia and Catelyn are forced to live with their cheating husbands and, are expected to raise their husband's bastard born out of the infidelity that could pose a risk to their children's inheritance. I love Jon, but Catelyn's hesitance regarding him was valid. He wasn't a son, and he was the source of insurmountable shame to her.

I couldn't have put it better myself, honestly. Those fics disgust me. I find them disturbing and repulsive with the way they turn Catelyn and Elia into Jon's cheerleaders LMAO AS IF. I'm sorry but some of these authors just love to turn every female character in ASOIAF into plot devices for Jon's story.

You will not believe how many fics I've read in which Robb always insists to push both Sansa and Arya further down the inheritance line, and the Northern lords and ladies just nod along and agree like a bunch of baboons and how Catelyn just have to suck it all up. Sometimes there is even a fic or two where Sansa insists that Robb points Jon as his heir to mark her so-called "development" when the narrative brings her to the Riverlands after escaping King's Landing, and in the process, ruining a mother-daughter relationship forever. Guess what's gonna happen? Yep. Robb dies and Jon becomes king with Sansa as his ever faithful advisor. Sometimes even Sansa is pushed away from the North and decides to stay in the South because Gods forbid she ever touch the Northern throne again. Lmao.

Or, you know, the favorite of all Rhaegar Wins AU, fics where Jon becomes the next king after Rhaegar because Aegon is gay and conveniently doesn't want the Iron Throne🥺

I'm a Jonsa stan. I love me some fics with angst; Sansa's struggle to overcome the fact that Jon's existence hurts Catelyn, etc. But there's a line for everything. For example, I fucking refuse to read Jonsa fics where Catelyn is so demonized one would think she constantly beat him when he's a child or told him to become a servant or a stable boy or something. And of course, Sansa gonna defend him with her whole chest and worships the ground he walks on. Lmao Unbelievable. What a way to degrade a female character, to turn her into a plot device--a cheerleader for their hero. Well done.

#elia martell #catelyn tully #catelyn stark #pro elia martell #pro catelyn stark #sansa stark #jon snow #aegon vi targaryen #anti asoiaf fandom #asoiaf #got #catelyn stark defence squad #catelyn stark defense squad #elia martell deserved better

[fedonciadale]

The crypt prank is just one of the many examples which show Sansa's distance from the family. She reminds me of those kids who everyone think is perfect and fine without even trying to poke into what is going in their personal life beacuse it is assumed that they are dutiful. Contrary to the popular opinion, I don't think even Cat was even personally involved with Sansa . That's why among all the people , I want her to reunite first with Jeyne with whom I think she actually had an emotional bond

Hi there!

I’m not sure I agree. To me the crypt prank is an example that Sansa was the odd one out occasionally, just like every Stark sibling was once in a while. We have friendly interactions of the siblings with each other and ‘distance’ or ‘no shared interest’ does not equal the lack of love.

Sansa’s interests are ridiculed by Bran and Arya in their thoughts that’s true, but that does not mean they don’t know her.

I agree though, that the needs of the dutiful children are often overlooked in a big family. And if you look at Ned, that is exactly what he does in regard to Arya and Sansa. He completely overlooks Sansa’s needs.

Cat could  be rather pragmatic. Her and Ned agreed on the betrothal to Joffrey to divert suspicions, although they knew they would investigate against the Lannisters. But it’s not as if doesn’t have their interest at heart.

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. (AGOT, Catelyn II)

Catelyn often thinks about her children and with love and fondness, almost all the time she thinks of them in a bunch (so to say), but occasionally she thinks about Sansa alone and at the very least you can say, that she knew Sansa and loved her:

She sounded so like Sansa, so happy and innocent with her dreams. Catelyn smiled, but the smile was tinged with sadness. (AGOT, Catelyn VI)

Catelyn know that Sansa’s letter to Robb was written under duress:

"There was a letter," Robb said, scratching his direwolf under the jaw. "One for you as well, but it came to Winterfell with mine." He went to the table, rummaged among some maps and papers, and returned with a crumpled parchment. "This is the one she wrote me, I never thought to bring yours."          Something in Robb's tone troubled her. She smoothed out the paper and read. Concern gave way to disbelief, then to anger, and lastly to fear. "This is Cersei's letter, not your sister's," she said when she was done. "The real message is in what Sansa does not say. All this about how kindly and gently the Lannisters are treating her … I know the sound of a threat, even whispered. They have Sansa hostage, and they mean to keep her."     (AGOT, Catelyn VIII)

Later, she deeply regrets sending the girls South and you can see that she understood well, what would make Sansa eager to leave Winterfell

"Sansa did the same, though few singers ever cared to make the long journey north to Winterfell." I told her there would be singers at the king's court, though. I told her she would hear music of all sorts, that her father could find some master to help her learn the high harp. Oh, gods forgive me (ACOK, Catelyn VI)

And then there is this gem, which shows how deeply Cat loves Sansa, in my humble opinion:

"Sansa was a lady at three, always so courteous and eager to please. She loved nothing so well as tales of knightly valor. Men would say she had my look, but she will grow into a woman far more beautiful than I ever was, you can see that. I often sent away her maid so I could brush her hair myself. She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft . . . the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.     (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

First of all, she is proud of her daughter, she thinks Sansa will surpass her and she is happy about that. She arranged some alone time with Sansa, brushing her hair, a loving act.

And this is how Cat reacts after she hears about Sansa‘s marriage to Tyrion:

Catelyn remembered the twisted little man she had seized at the crossroads inn and carried all the way to the Eyrie. "I should have let Lysa push him out her Moon Door. My poor sweet Sansa . . . why would anyone do this to her?"  (ACOK, Catelyn IV)  

And then in her last chapter:

Was there ever a wedding less joyful? she wondered, until she remembered her poor Sansa and her marriage to the Imp. Mother take mercy on her. She has a gentle soul. (ACOK, Catelyn VII)

So, I do think that Cat loved Sansa dearly and that she related more to her interests than any of the others. She was fond of her naivety and at the same time she knew that at some point she had to grow beyond that. This is not mutually exclusive.

I want Sansa to reunite with Jeyne as well, and I am quite sure she had a close relationship with her. But I don’t think we should actually try to rank Sansa’s relationships. A relationship of friends can be in many ways sisterly, but I think that Sansa can have relationships with her friend, her mother, her brothers, her father and we could not say which one is more important.

Look at Robb & Sansa: We don’t see them interact at all, and yet the though about Robb gave Sansa courage in King’s Landing.

And Sansa draws strength from the memory of her mother as well. ���I must be as brave as my lady mother.”

I guess what I want to say is that we should not try to put one label on the Starks interactions and claim that this is all there is. Sansa and Arya were bickering sisters, but there relationship is far more layered than that.

It’s possible you did not want to ‘rank’ Sansa’s relationships, but I understood you that way. And anyway emotions are involved in every of her bonds to the Starks.

Thanks for the ask!

#anon ask #Sansa Stark #Sansa Stark defence squad #Sansa and Catelyn #Sansa and her siblings

[fedonciadale]

I dont understand why only Sansa/ Catelyn Stans are asked to criticize our favorites? I dont see ppl who ask us to point out negative things abt characters we love ask any other stans to do the same for their favorites. Especially when unlike others, Cat & Sansa have received a lot of unfair criticism from a very long time. It's only now there are ppl who defend them and point out misogyny in the fandom.

Honestly, in the old times I wouldn’t have wanted to be part of the ASOIAF fandom. I lurked for a long time until I finally found a place here where I didn’t get the feeling that my ideas and my favs would be immediately ridiculed.

I wouldn’t even mind talking about some flaws of my favs, but they are always blown out of proportion, so it’s no fun - and the way people ask makes a huge difference. 

Thanks!

#anon ask #Sansa Stark #Sansa Stark defence squad #Catelyn Stark

[fedonciadale]

I agree that no character in ASOIAF is exempt from criticism , even Cat and Sansa. The problem is, as I agree with you many times it comes over the top and sometimes veiled as hate. Their is also blatant hypocrisy while judging these two while brushing off other characters' similar if not worse acts .

Hi there!

The problem is that GRRM trusts his readers to come to their own conclusion - which is sort of natural for the PoV structure he uses. Because we have no authority on the actions of the characters, only the opinion other PoVs have about them. So by deciding from which PoV we see something, GRRM guides the reader’s sympathies. The best example for this is how introducing Sansa through Arya’s PoV is a trap that leads a significant part of the readers to dislike Sansa - and it should be obvious that like and dislike come into it when we judge characters. GRRM is also very good at giving his villains relatable reasons and you know it is interesting how that causes readers that they mix up what is an explanation and what is an excuse.

Take Tyrion: Tyrion murdered Shae. That his own father had left him to hang, that he felt betrayed, that he had suffered and extremely biased trial against him, that there is the history of Tysha and all that.... That is an explanation but not an excuse.

They also tend to mix up what is an in-world sin and what we today would see as sin, and sometimes they are mistaken about in-world sins.

Let’s take cousin marriage: From what we know of family trees of the families of Westeros the line between incest and consanguineous marriage is between the Roman third and fourth degree, which means for anyone who is not a Targ cousin marriage (4th degree) and half-uncle-niece marriage (4th degree as well) as they happen in the Stark family tree are o.k. while 3rd degree full uncle-niece or full aunt-nephew is not. That is an in-world boundary, that does not align with the current law in most of the US (although it does with many other states).

So, yes, I think it’s mostly people who don’t make enough of an effort to differentiate but have this knee jerk reaction about Cat and Sansa because they dislike them.

Thanks for the ask!

#anon ask #Sansa Stark #Catelyn Stark #Sansa Stark defence squad