#dd and soj have so much potential | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

spiritofjustice · 2 months

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obligatory yuty for the ask!!! but also if you dont want to only talk abt yuty then Ummm fulbright:3 or both even if youre feeling fancy...

Send me a character and I’ll list:

I already got one for Yuty, but thank you! So Fulbright it is.

Favorite thing about them: His pure of heart, dumb of ass nature... idk! I just feel like his bombastic, friendly personality is so lovable. I was invested in him from the second I met him! He just leaves such an impact with his silly but earnest personality. I love how determined he is, how he's got these big emotions and how much he believes in Blackquill and isn't scared of him one bit even though everyone else is because he sees Blackquill's raw potential. Waaaa. It's nice. Least favorite thing about them: Beyond him tasing Blackquill, um. What they did to his character by having him get murdered off-screen before the game starts lol. I think the way they did the Phantom twist was incredibly lame and I've talked extensively about it before so I'll spare y'all and just link the posts where I've bitched about it instead. 1 | 2

I haven't thought about it in a while so my opinions may have changed a bit idk just read these KRKFNM Second post isn't mine but I did leave a fucking tag essay so there's that. I do plan on replaying Dual Destinies soon to see what I feel about the game after knowing everything I do now, though. Favorite line: idk if it's a favorite line exactly but my favorite moment with him is in Turnabout Academy where he pops out of the art room window and is like "oh it's y'all!! in justice we trust!!" and helps out Athena and Apollo while Athena excitedly greets him n Klav and Apollo are like ??? It's so cute. brOTP: Ummm him with Ema is pretty fun! I want all the detectives to be buddies, and I think that Ema would originally be so pissed off and annoyed by him, but come to appreciate his earnestness and kindness. I think once she cools off and becomes a proper forensic detective she'd mellow out and be much more open to befriending people she works with. I think they'd get along very well. I also like the headcanons where Bobby really looks up to Gumshoe, so I like their dynamic too.

I also think him and Yuty would be fun. I think Nahyuta would be annoyed by Fulbright at first like Ema, though. But Fulbright probably fills a similar environmental niche to Datz, so I think Nahyuta could deal with him eventually. I imagined this scenario (admittedly in a shippy sense-- I think Madhibright is a funny ship and kinda cute, but I don't actually ship it anymore, they're just pals) where they meet post-SOJ and thought it'd be fun. Here's that post I made. OTP: Blackbright, I guess! IDK, I don't ship as much for him as I used to, but this is still my number one. I LOVE their dynamic in DD, I love the possibilities of what a dynamic could be like post-DD had he lived, so on. They're definitely Together but it might be kind of an unlabeled grey area friendship gay thing too. I don't know KRKF but I like them a lot! It's fun. I think they're very cute. nOTP: I dunno. Who are they gonna ship him with if not Blackquill? The Phantom? I've seen cute stuff with the Phantom and him as buddies that I find interesting. I wouldn't call romantically shipping them a NOTP, it's just vaguely weird but I don't really care at all. So, none I guess. Random headcanon: He's from the South and has a Southern accent!!! I love giving characters I like Southern accents it's kind of a thing I do if I have an excuse to, lol. It's why like half the Tazmily villagers were written with accents during my Mother 3 fanfic days. I think it suits him, idk why. It's better than the goofy ass voice they gave him in DD 😭 Unpopular opinion: idk. I don't know what people think about him, aside from him being another character the AA subreddit will try to convince you just absolutely sucks. Aside from, like, I don't know, I think it's a bit off sometimes if AUs where Bobby lives that people try to put all the blame for shitty behavior towards Blackquill on the Phantom. I get why, but I think sometimes it's worth examining how his position of power could be harmful to Blackquill regardless of his pure intentions or whatever. He's a cop, after all.

I know some people are uncomfortable with the ethics of a ship with Blackquill while he's still in prison (which is why some folks will specifically only interpret Blackbright as a post-DD thing) but I'm also like. idk I think THAT'S worth examining too! By people smarter than me. I'm not doing it KRKF I just find their dynamics interesting, warts and all.

I get it, though. Sometimes you just don't wanna fucking get into it SDJN but yeah! Song I associate with them: Never Ever Getting Rid of Me from Waitress. Quintessential Blackbright song Favorite picture of them: This pose is my fave everrr it's adorable.

though I also like the one official art where he's crying looking at Blackquill. ok gay ass

#brutalitybunny #asks #Psy's replies #aa tag #headcanons tag #thank you for sending!!!!!

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eggtempest · 2 years

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Since you did that DD video, aren't you going to make a video on Soj and the potential it could also had?

i dont think soj had any potential LMAO, even if capcom had executed its story better it still would have been, at its core, a story about lawyers from america/japan going to a south asian country and overhauling their legal system/government for them, which just absolutely reeks of imperialism. not only that, it would've still felt like the characters of mainline ace attorney unceremoniously shoved into a story that doesnt concern them. i think if you fixed everything wrong with soj's premise it wouldnt even be recognizable as the same game anymore

ALL THAT ASIDE! i dont currently have any plans to make a video on soj, primarily because i hate the game so much that i literally dont even think a video essay on it would be fun to make. dd is a bad game in an "its fun to make fun of it" sort of way but soj is a bad game in a "seeing these characters and story i love get butchered like this is just depressing" sort of way GHJKSDHFJKLSH 😔✌️‍

#that being said i do have Thoughts on this game and why it sucks so maybe ill like. make a tumblr post about it at some point #complaining about soj is best done in moderation lest it drive you to madness #asks

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dumbasswhatever · 1 year

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last dd hatepost of the day i swear but it's genuinely just so sad thinking about what could have been if aj, dd, and soj were an actual trilogy. like think about the original trilogy! how much the second and third games built upon that first one! all the new characters we met and all the development of the pre-existing characters! aj is just dripping with potential and it got completely ignored and written over

#sorry i said 'dripping' btw #i know other people have expressed this before a lot but just like #thinking about the enormous difference between just the first game and the trilogy as a whole...........

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razzdrgn · 10 months

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been replaying all the ace attorney games and man. the "apollo trilogy" kinda sucks huh

apollo justice itself is kinda weak overall, since the whole thing builds up to the conspiracy around phoenix losing his badge. its an interesting story but apollo as a character just feels really boring and is pretty much only a vehicle to move the plot forward

dual destinies is just. bad honestly. i got through the first case and started the second when it hit me like "oh i dont actually want to replay this". it started out strong by promising to have us play as athena but then phoenix comes swooping in right when the actual gameplay starts and god that really threw out any stakes that were there. and when it came time for case 2 and the investigation portion started it was immediately super slow feeling and like. the new interface for the bottom screen on the 3ds suuuuuuuuucks. plus no more examining random environments for fun quips losing any potential characterization now its just extremely railroady. and man the new voices and anime cutscenes just suck so hard

i dont even want to think about spirit of justice and the cringy and borderline racist names for the characters in khurain man. and i dont even want to remember how long turnabout revolution was. just. bluhhhh

the original AA trilogy is SO solid snd tight, and the AAI games feel like a great extension of it, but aj/dd/soj just kinda reek. where the hell are all the fun returning characters. where are larry and gumshoe. where are maya and pearl. what happened to the way they write phoenix and edgeworth they fucking suck now. just everything feels so bad now man.

anyway uhh ace attorney 7 when athena deserves a PROPER trilogy. apollo got shafted by his trilogy mostly being about athena and phoenix but athena actually has a nice character and i want to see more of her. i genuinely want to see less of phoenix and apollo with how they're written nowadays. i just want my funny visual novel murder mysteries to actually be fun and interesting dude.

#ace attorney #apollo justice #dual destinies #spirit of justice #apollo justice trilogy

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lorillee · 9 months

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Simon and Athena for the duo bingo (I know you haven't played SoJ yet but just based on DD)

ok i am SO so very sorry this took so long to answer . to be honest there have been like 57 concurrent Incidents in my life and i have been severely lacking in the emotional energy to do anything at all. but things have finally calmed down a bit so HERE WE GO !!!!

wasted potential box hit because of my eternal frustrations with aa5 on two different points: 1) i know that because of the way the case is structured its impossible to do it this way but to be honest i wish that the player character for the final case was athena instead of phoenix because like obviously without athena simon totally 100000% would have been executed but i feel like it wouldve come across stronger if it was more of a turnabout goodbyes situation (not 1:1 obviously, but still) except with athena & simon . like come on we're already establishing athena as a direct parallel to phoenix re: "i went to law school to save somebody important to me" and then you dont even let her properly do that 😔😔😔 honestly i think its a phenomenal shame they didnt actually capitalize on that more regarding her relationship with phoenix but WHATEVERRRR and 2) the irrelevancy of the phantom's identity to the core conflict of the case, among everything else, also severely undermines the main emotional thread of the relationship between the cykes & the blackquills imo and all of this could be vastly improved by making aura the phantom . but that is an essay for ANOTHER TIME !!! ha aha. ha. sigh. anyways

simon is VERY much the kind of character that you absolutely need to pair off with an opposite of some sort because he's so . extremely. something . that it works SPECTACULARLY well (think: athena, bobby, jinxie) and im so happy that the aa creators have assigned athena as his certified weirdgirl little sister its everything to me. actually this bit from his testimony still makes me insane its so cute

since aa5 kind of cheaped out on giving me the family soap opera messy feelings melodrama of my dreams at least in aa6 ill be able to get my stupid siblings fluff and i am TREMENDOUSLY excited for it i cannot wait to watch them bounce off each other in a much more casual context and if i dont get this i am GOING to cry im gonna be so sad my life will be ruined . my dream is for simon to be exactly and prickly and obnoxious as he was in aa5 and to make his stupid jokes that absolutely nobody thinks are funny except for him and athena to make fun of him for them and drag him around to do whatever dumb thing she wants to do today and he'll pretend to be grumpy about it but he would 10000% kill and die for her and they both know it

#speaking of i need to finish dd so i can play soj and see MAYA AGAIN!!!!!!!! and also FINALLY be able to start following people #bc ive been severely holding off on following aa blogs that i want to follow because i dont want to get spoiled 😔#ask game answers #jake-marshall

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jawsofbalmung · 2 years

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so as im playing more and more aa games im thinking about like, capcom is definitely going to keep coming out with aa games, it's a massively popular series and one of their flagships, and if they can keep making money on something they will. but im realizing lots of ways in which they could and probably will (and already have, in some spots) jump the shark if they keep dragging out the two aa timelines we have, and i thought of some future ace attorney game concepts that i would actually want to play, and would actually do a service to the existing world and characters (if done well of course). spirit of justice and dgs spoilers below!:

i can't claim this idea since ive seen a million fan variations on it, but returning to the heart of og ace attorney with a prequel game like mia fey ace attorney would be, maybe a little mid in the grand scheme of the series, but have a lot of potential for a fun game that actually probes deeper into a character as beloved as mia, as well as shows a more rounded and dynamic approach to phoenix's character without overusing him as a protag as ive seen people complain about before. i think it would probably end up disproportionately popular on here too given all the talk ive seen about wanting something like it.

i think another very, very likely concept would be a post-soj sequel focusing more heavily (or even entirely) on apollo and nahyuta's work in reconstructing the khura'inese legal system. most likely this would involve nahyuta staying as a prosecutor and helping apollo puzzle out cases as his opposition as aa prosecutors are prone to do, but i think it would honestly be more interesting if nahyuta was more like apollo's co counsel or even a secondary protagonist, and we got a brand new prosecutor. this would be probably the most exciting game for me personally, and id be very interested in seeing how rayfa's personality would change as she got older and her life got completely upended, and i personally love the divination seance mechanic and look forward to how they would use it in interesting new ways, having a game that takes place entirely in khura'in.

also not a concept i can claim to own, as ive seen a bunch of different ideas for it, but while im not super excited about more [prosecutor] investigations games because i feel like a lot of it will be jumping the shark, there have been some interesting concepts floating around. i really like this one (dd spoilers in the link) though its very very unlikely given that capcom likes its games to be able to stand alone with minimal knowledge of prior aa games, and i feel like dual destinies was so poorly received that they're trying to pretend it didn't exist and move past it. that's what i would do. but my favorite idea that i genuinely, deeply want is a barok van zieks investigation game taking place post-dgs2. it would be a fun way to expand the dgs universe a little more, and show us more of barok's sweeter side after things were resolved for him. i feel like his story isn't quite over yet, and i would quite honestly kill and/or die for a game that focuses on him. @van-zieksy has a good post outlining a bvz investigations game here!

along the lines of extending the dgs storyline, a trequel to the dgs series may be unlikely with how much they packaged it as a duology, but still possible, and something that could be done pretty well or very badly. personally, i think it would be fun to have a dgs game that takes place almost entirely in japan, in which some or all of our english friends wind up there. it was briefly hinted in the dgs2 epilogue that sholmes and iris might be making a trip to japan very soon, and on top of it being fun to see the englishmen being the out of place foreigners for once (especially barok) this would make a good leaping off point to focus partially or even entirely on susato's budding law career, in how she (and ryunosuke) tackle not only uprooting the unfair judicial system in japan, but slowly incrementally making misogynistic policies fade out as susato proves herself as a (very unconvincingly crossdressing) female attorney.

finally, i believe ive seen a fangame(?) concept for it, but a more visual novel-y approach to a dgs prequel would be so fucking cool, and if that is indeed a fangame development i saw, i am beyond stoked to get my hands on it tbh. i don't have the link anymore, but if anyone knows what im talking about, please hit me up with it!

#i never know how to end long posts like this #ace attorney #phoenix wright ace attorney #ace attorney meta #the great ace attorney #dai gyakuten saiban

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turnaboutstupid · 4 years

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[spinning the wheel of fortune] i now present to you the marching band au my brain spat out tonight. miles was a clarinet but auditioned and got junior drum major then senior drum major his senior year, phoenix (was a trumpet) somehow also becomes drum major senior year even tho it’s supposed to be a junior, maya ema and franziska are all freshman but i have no idea what section to put them, franziska im having trouble deciding between battery and flute, maya im tempted to put in guard, and ema i just dont know what to do with her. jk she’s definitely a melli. obv im messing w ages might have maya franz and ema be sophomores so i can have pearl be a freshman? she would be a clarinet i think. larry is a sax senior but not the section leader. im changing my mind franz is a snare her sophomore year but she’s gunning for center. im making gumshoe, godot, and lana be drill instructors, gumshoe’s like the one everyone likes bc he’s nice but he’s like not that good at drill, lana is a god at drill but they dont like her bc she’s kinda harsh, and godot is like in the middle. mia is a year older than phoenix she isn’t dead just graduated. fuck it maggey in pit, adrian as trumpet section leader, and the hawthorne twins on clarinet and flute. gant can be their weird band director. might change it around so gumshoe can be a sousa but probably not. anyway main point of it is some sort of conflict w edgeworth being the practice makes perfect half and phoenix being the raw musical talent half

#this is complete nonsense ive seen like symphony/band aus before but #marching band.... so much potential....#i will come back and refine this at some point #ace attorney au #might change it up even more and have maya franz and ema be juniors and add apollo klav athena and everyone else as sophomores but #i havent played dd or soj so idk the characters super well #FUCK I FORGOT KAY #and sebastian #im coming back tomorrow with a more organized version of this

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hychlorions · 2 years

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I'm just so happy to see someone that loves Klavier Gavin as much as I do tbh. He's my poor little meow meow. The most comedic character in game. The most tragic. I can read him at face value as "haha drama queen flirt rockstar dude" but also write a 5 page MLA format essay on his body language in his sprites.

He's calculative and intelligent but at the same time also does teen magazine quizzes to see which Jonas Brother he is. One of the most noble and respected prosecutors who knows first hand how he can be seen as yet another corrupt member of the law because he knows the role that he has played in Phoenix's downfall. But at the same time he's scribbling 'Klavier Justice xoxo' in glitter pen on his legal paperwork.

He's just a dude but he's also a good candidate for reading too much into and self projection and I'm holding his hand but at the same time there's a knife behind my back.

i honestly... have no idea why you sent this to me specifically but i'll take it. he's the best of the best. the worst of the worst. i've never seen a more normal guy in my life. he needs so much therapy it's insane. I'm going to hold him and cuddle him and make sure he's okay till the end of time but also if I ever meet him I would punch him in the face. I will keep him in a locket and keep him safe I would study him like an unethical 1900s scientist. I am his greatest protector and his worst nightmare all in one. He's my clay and my marble he's my magnum opus

He just has so much potential and I hate the fact that there was apparently a tragic backstory for him and his stupid idiot man brother and yet it was scrapped. for what? DD? SoJ? Games i repeatedly refuse to acknowledge and/or play if only for the embarrassing lack of klavier in it? But then I'm glad. I'm glad there's no set backstory. Whatever capcom can come up with now post-retconning would be pathetic and cruel in the sense that it would never compare to what I've given him. I have built him a castle. I have handed him peace. I have placed the entire world in the fold of his gentle waiting hands. It's everything I have and yet it isn't enough and it will never be. He deserves so much more than the cards he's been dealt

#aka what the fuck did i just type #ohgod don't look at me i look insane i swear i'm normal #i swear i'm normal about this fictional man i swear i swear #ask #anonymous

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rivalsforlife · 3 years

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Do you have anything you wished was different from Ace Attorney canon?

Hello I'm finally slowly starting to get around to answering some of these! Sorry for the wait.

Uh this ask got super long so a basic summary of it: narumitsu being canon in a well-written way would be nice even though I don't think it would ever happen, I stand by not bringing back Phoenix as a main protagonist in DD, and I'd also want to rewrite all of SOJ so that Apollo goes to Khura'in in place of Phoenix, to have more interesting character stuff going on.

So the longer answer is this:

Aside from some of the actually problematic stuff that I don't feel qualified to talk about, story-wise, I answered a sort of similar question about a year ago here. I have changed my opinions a little bit since then, particularly with regards to the canonicity of narumitsu... because while I do love narumitsu I feel like I don't trust Ace Attorney to actually do it properly. After all if this past November has taught us anything "making a ship canon" could actually be quite undesirable and I have no desire to see Phoenix and/or Edgeworth sent to superhell. (I literally know nothing else about supernatural sorry about that.)

If capcom were somehow able to make narumitsu canon but in an unobtrusive way and as a natural progression of the storyline, like oh hey, the court record profile for Miles Edgeworth's Obligatory Last-Case Appearance has Phoenix mention they're dating, and maybe there's a few lines suggesting they live with each other, but it's not like... taking the entire story to force them together and otherwise does not change the way they interact with each other and butcher one or both of their characterizations in the process? I'd definitely be happy about that. Not gonna lie even if they made narumitsu canon in the most terrible way possible I'd have a "holy shit I can't believe they did that it's the best day of my life" kind of moment before I could think about it critically. But I honestly see no chance of them ever actually making narumitsu canon, so that's quite unrealistic to hope for anyways.

Aside from that in that other ask I talked about basically the premise of an Apollo trilogy and not bringing back Phoenix as the main protagonist in DD, and I still stand by that, buuut in my other ask I did touch on making SOJ a different game where Apollo goes to Khura'in instead of Phoenix - and you know what I'm going to take some time to actually talk about my dream version of SOJ because there were a lot of little things about the one we got that I didn't like. And it's going to be very long. So it's under a cut.

SO yeah I talked about it a bit in the other ask. I think that Phoenix going to Khura'in is a rather weak idea both externally and in-universe. In one of the interviews, too lazy to find which one, Phoenix basically goes to Khura'in because the writers couldn't figure out how to challenge him anymore. ... And then they don't actually challenge him at all. Because oh well now we're going to this new country where they KILL DEFENSE ATTORNEYS WHO LOSE and then it's supposed to be *shocking* that Phoenix would risk his life for a kid or his best friend. you know the guy who ran across a burning bridge to save his best friend. you know the guy who got punched in the face, nearly killed by the mafia, and tazed trying to save his clients. This doesn't tell me anything new about Phoenix's character. His whole travel in Khura'in doesn't tell me anything new about Phoenix's character. Basically the only reason he's there is to see Maya - Maya who theoretically would be returning home in about two weeks. Maya who was still in her training for two more weeks when Phoenix visited so he wouldn't be able to see her anyways. ... And in the meantime Trucy had the biggest show of her life that was going to be on TV and Phoenix wasn't there for it. And of course Phoenix didn't return home after Trucy was accused of murder (yes he couldn't be there for the trial, but he definitely could have for the emotional support afterwards) and instead just sits for two weeks in Khura'in doing literally nothing after Ahlbi's trial.

(And yes I know about the anime prologue that has Phoenix think Maya's in danger... but that's not strictly canon since it's never mentioned in game, isn't technically a part of the game, and even still, why wouldn't he go home after knowing that Maya's safe and that Trucy had been ACCUSED OF MURDER. Honestly that's what makes me angriest about this whole thing is that it makes Phoenix out to be a terrible dad. We really don't need any more takes like that, especially not from canon.)

And what about Apollo, you may ask? Well, given case 5 of SOJ, Apollo actually has a personal link to Khura'in and ends up staying there afterwards... after being there for like a day or two. I should note here that it has been a while since I went through SOJ in its entirety so I am fuzzy on many of the details. But both through what I remember and some conversations with people who actually played the game recently, the motivation for Apollo to actually stay in Khura'in isn't that great. It mainly seemed like guilt about his dead dad who he hadn't been in contact with for years and had completely written off until a few days ago but oh he died and then went to go visit him so... better take up the law office!

If Apollo had gone to Khura'in in place of Phoenix and spent more time there, reconnecting with his childhood home and actually getting passionate seeing how corrupt the legal system is there (even though we have a corrupt legal system at home) and being driven to fix it, that would make for a stronger story, I think. The Khura'in plot is more personally focused around Apollo than it is Phoenix. Phoenix's connection to Khura'in is through Maya, but Maya doesn't really have much of a connection to it aside from "it's where spirit channeling is from and she trains there". But Apollo, I guess, grew up there. So it's so strange to me that they force all of Apollo's connection to Khura'in in the last case while Phoenix is running around doing who-knows-what for the rest of the game. Phoenix spends more time getting to know the state of Khura'in and the Defiant Dragons and case 3's whole thing but he isn't the one who in the end decides to sit down and fix it; that's all on Apollo. It almost feels like they forced one of the two plots in to everything. And it was probably conceived as a Phoenix story that they needed to fit Apollo into last minute because oops he's supposed to be a protagonist too.

Some other strengths to Apollo going to Khura'in include that it would shake up the character dynamics a bit. Instead of Phoenix defending Maya, it's Apollo defending Maya, and that's a particularly interesting thing to look at in the context of Khura'in's "we kill defense attorneys" system. Of course, Phoenix would risk his life to save Maya, 100%, every time. But what about Apollo, who hasn't met Maya, who only knows her as "Mr. Wright's former assistant" - would he risk his life for her? And I feel like Maya would argue more against him defending her because of that. "We're strangers, you don't know me, you don't have to risk your life defending me." (Sidenote that I was always upset that Maya didn't protest much when Phoenix offered to defend her, knowing his life was at risk - sure she knows him better and knows he's always been able to get her out of these situations, but at the same time, the fact that there was no "what about your daughter?" conversation sucks. I really wish SOJ wouldn't have like. completely forgotten about the phoenix-trucy father-daughterisms.)

Let's say Apollo goes to Khura'in. Phoenix stays at home. Phoenix gets a call from Apollo that's basically "uhh hi Mr. Wright you know your friend Maya, she's been arrested for murder, if I defend her and I lose we're both dead," then you can tie in to that moment in 6-2 where Phoenix (who can't make it in time for the trial!) believes in Apollo and his skills as an attorney, not just to save Maya's life, but also his own. It ties in a bit more to the overall challenge of defending someone at the risk of your own life. Again, Phoenix would have very few hesitations, if any, risking his life to defend Maya. Apollo may have more defending a stranger at the risk of his own life.

Then if you can actually have Apollo and Maya talk together that would be neat - Maya can tell him embarrassing stories about Phoenix's rookie days, for instance. Their dynamic would be quite a bit different from Phoenix and Maya's, and that would be an interesting thing to see, unlike what we have in SOJ where all of Maya's substantial interactions are with characters she already knows or brand new characters.

(It would also be pretty neat to know more spirit channeling politics and dive in more to Maya's perspective on Khura'in and also her role as upcoming Master of the Kurain Channeling Technique and where she plans to lead the village in the future and also reconcile with her family's bloody legacy, but I'm not quite sure how to fit that in right now.)

And how about Phoenix, back home in Japanifornia? Evidently he'd end up being in charge of defending Trucy. Now, I did love the siblingsisms in canon 6-2, but I feel like there is still potential for Phoenix defending Trucy. All of Apollo Justice has a bunch of good moments between Apollo and Trucy, and she's co-counsel on all his trials, but we've never had any substantial Phoenix and Trucy investigation or co-counsel moments. I feel like AU 6-2 would be a great opportunity to dive more into Phoenix and Trucy's relationship and how it may have changed after Phoenix got his badge back. Plus, Phoenix being "the only one who knows how she really feels on the inside", he'd have unique insider knowledge into some of the Gramarye stuff that comes up in the case and Trucy's personal connection to the Gramaryes, which Apollo knows a bit of, but Phoenix knows more of. ... Or at least, should know more of, given that he raised Trucy for nine years at this point and they're very close, and Phoenix knows her better than anyone else does, even if capcom has forgotten this.

... Of course having Athena defend the case would also be great because more Athena spotlight is never a bad thing, but it's hard to come up with a reason why Phoenix wouldn't be there to defend her. And doing more switcheroos in terms of role in the plot is a bit beyond the scope of what I have in mind right now. Sorry Athena.

Aside from that, Athena still gets Storyteller, Apollo still heads Turnabout Revolution, and Phoenix still gets the DLC case. Apollo stays in Khura'in in the end with a bit more to his motivations. Rather than it just being about carrying on Dhurke's legacy, it's also something Apollo is passionate about after all he witnessed here. While we're at it I'd still rework a lot of Turnabout Revolution to make it so that Phoenix genuinely believes in Atishon because that makes for sooo much more interesting of a plot and actual character development on Phoenix's part than "Maya was kidnapped again and Phoenix is only wrong when he has no other choice", but that'd require some more detail and this post is long enough already.

And in terms of other details that need to be sorted out, there's the question of why Apollo would need to go to Khura'in in the first place. I'd probably say something to do with Dhurke. Maybe he comes back a bit earlier - actually alive, maybe, though crossing borders would be a bit of a challenge, or he reaches out to Apollo remotely somehow and Apollo goes to yell in his face about abandoning him (or at least that's what he thinks he wants.) Then we could have some more Dhurke and Apollo bonding time, potentially? Idk, if you switch up Phoenix and Apollo you're pretty much writing a whole new game and obviously I have not worked out all the details, but I think if Capcom had tried to go with this route from the outset they'd have a stronger game. At least stronger character motivations.

So... yeah. Those are my opinions. If you read through this whole thing I'm very impressed because it got very long!

#asks #soj spoilers #aa6 spoilers

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blueskittlesart · 3 years

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Do you have any info for getting into AA? It looks like a game I'd enjoy but...its a LOT to see and I'm not sure where to start admittedly

ABSOLUTELY i do. ace attorney is a really fun series and i’d definitely recommend it!! before going in tho, if you really don’t know much about it it’s important to know that despite its appearance, it’s not a kids game. aa depicts murder, suicide, emotional abuse, etc, and certain plot points do have the potential to be triggering. @athenadykes actually compiled a spoiler-free list of potential triggers in all the games, so if you’re someone who could potentially be triggered by that kind of thing i highly advise you to look at it so you know what youre getting into.

If you want to play the games following the canon timeline, this is how you should play:

aa1 (phoenix wright: ace attorney)

aa2 (justice for all)

aa3 (trials and tribulations)

ace attorney investigations 1

ace attorney investigations 2 (gyakuten kenji 2/prosecutor’s path)

aa4 (apollo justice)

aa5 (dual destinies)

aa6 (spirit of justice)

the first 3 games (aa, jfa, t&t) are a complete story and are referred to as ‘the trilogy’ by most fans. they’re definitely where you want to start. after aa3 is where things get a little murky with the timeline and play order. ace attorney investigations/gyakuten kenji are spinoff games following edgeworth instead of phoenix. they take place narratively just after the end of aa3, but were released between aa4 and aa5. they can technically be played at any time after completing the trilogy, and you don’t HAVE to play them to understand the rest of the games, but if you like edgeworth or franziska i’d recommend them! (note: aai2 never got an official US release, so if you want to play it in english you have to use a fan translation. there’s one that’s easy to find and very high quality tho.)

here’s a link to another ask where I explain how I emulated for aa1-4 and aai1&2, as well as emulation and ds hacking options for aa5&6. it also has links to every aa game in emulator-playable format. I’d pretend I love to suck nintendo’s dick at this point and say that there’s a switch and steam version of the trilogy for i think $30, but that only helps you out for the first 3 games and they just took dd and soj off the app store anyway so i hope they lose money because of me specifically actually. get fucked nintendo <3

(note, i didn’t include the dgs games here because 1. they haven’t been translated or released in the US and 2. i haven’t played them yet and honestly dont know if i even can because i havent tried the translation patches BUT if you do want to play them i think the general consensus is that you should play them after completing all the other games, even though they take place narratively a couple hundred(?) years before aa1.)

#asks #ace attorney #aa liveblog #if you have any other questions feel free to ask me!! i will do my best to help you out :)#Anonymous

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sirescumbag · 3 years

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AA7 thoughts

So I just finished Spirit of Justice and then I heard about Ace Attorney 7 apparently in the works, so my brain decided this is the time to make up potential plot twists to be excited about that don’t actually exist. I know this is divergent from my usual fanart posting but here’s a very long text dump of some new stuff I’d be interested in seeing but will probably not happen because it is all very specific and caters to my own desires, probably not the fandom’s in general:

Phoenix is still there, but not as active as an acting defense attorney, though he’s still key to the plot (as a mentor, or to be used as emotional blackmail). He’s not playable (or if he is, it’s not for long), but more there as a plot point in a Maya sort of way (oh the turntables). This time, he’s the one under threat or danger. Instead of switching around from lawyer to lawyer, I think that Athena should undergo some more development as a main character this time around since Phoenix and Apollo have had their time to shine. The removal of Phoenix and being all alone, I think, would also be interesting in her character development

On that note, bring on the major character angst!! Having a big tragedy occur, with a fairly major character. Usually the tragedy pulled is a murder/death, but how about a different sort of tragedy-- a fate worse than death/on par with it to someone who is still alive? Someone is severely incapacitated, a psychological injury (classic old memory loss, or perhaps a genius who is reduced to a very limited mental capacity), coma, or even a temporary death (like with Petenshy, Edgeworth), or perhaps a kidnapping (not Maya this time, please). If it happens to a major character, it’ll have greater impact, BUT there’ll be fan riots if it’s not reversible. So have the tragedy with the character get resolved, but not in a deus ex machina way-- recovery is slow and angsty but filled with hope.

There’s often a focus on the past haunting you-- let’s try shifting this to the present! Building suspense on a case that is happening in real time-- I am fond of the idea of a serial killer on the loose in the present and the dread of suspense in present time throughout trials as they continue to kill and hinder key advances in solving the mystery.

Very often, there are personal ties in court-- both the prosecution and defense are tied together in some way in the past, resolving their own personal backstory. Instead of oneself, maybe let’s have some focus on a client instead? It might be interesting to see a lawyer get so deep into protecting a single client-- instead of a new client for every case, protecting a single person over multiple cases-- that they get roped into an outsider’s story instead. A little idea in my head is of playing around with maybe witness protection, or say (off the serial killer idea) someone is expected to be the next target for a murder and you are tasked with trying to protect them in real time (and then a tragedy happens to them that moves plot forward, bonus if players gets to build an emotional connection between you and the client).

In SOJ and DGS, the stakes were big on “saving the masses” and government reform-- the stakes can still be high, but instead of something lofty like reforming the world or community, instead it could focus on the relationships with the people immediately around you, protecting them, or just some good old self-preservation.

Newer characters like Athena being really fleshed out! Whether there are new or old characters, really build and explore the depth of their character beyond that of a plot point. Not just slapping on relationship labels that immediately trigger emotion but have no context beyond it (like the killing off “my best friend” Clay in DD, or the classic parental death). I thought the fleshing out of Dhurke and building an emotional relation to him in SOJ was a lot more effective in making it really feel like a tragedy than with Clay in DD.

For introducing any old characters, please show some personality changes due to age. Or, maybe! Even a 180 change from the personality from the original trilogy for intrigue-- what happened to the old person I knew (and have it be integral to the plot)? I know I griped about the old “ah That Event 5/7/10 years ago” past plot thing being used but I wouldn’t mind this being used as a part of plot development either

Maybe try to bridge the feeling of separation between the old trilogy and newer characters’ worlds by, instead of kind of sequestering them into their separate spheres of interaction to preserve nostalgia (like in Turnabout Time Traveler, where the old gang is all together in the same dynamic, Maya and Phoenix and Edgeworth, etc), have old trilogy characters interact with newer ones in significant ways and build their own unique bond. So, not just a passing mention where the old encounters the new, having the old interact with the new and build a bond through going through significant conflicts together (for example, this has already been mentioned but if Athena is the main focus of the next game, there could be an opportunity to explore this if she confronts Franziska in court!).

I know there’s already so many gimmicks added (Apollo’s perceive, Athena’s widget) but if there has to be something new added, instead of making it individual-specific, maybe have be similar to spirit channeling as a concept-- have it be a broad phenomenon in the world that plays a key part in causing a case, rather than a tool for discerning the truth of a case.

Or, if we’re sticking with the same gadgets/tricks, instead choosing to tamper more with the tools of the trade that were supposed to never lead you astray-- this has already been seen in DD, where Apollo’s bracelet led him to the wrong conclusion about Athena, and AA4, where evidence was tampered with. Perhaps instead of adding new gadgets, let’s manipulate, tamper with, lose, have it used against them in new ways!

The use of a civil case in SOJ was very much unexpected but in my opinion a very interesting one! Would be very interesting to see more in-fighting among the prosecutor group or within the defense attorney group and see how that moves the plot along. Messing more with the court system instead of adding new gadgets would also be interesting.

More threats during investigation, not just in court! Remember when von Karma tased you in the evidence room? Let’s have suspense in AND out of the courtroom.

I’m sure there’s plenty of interesting psychological phenomena that could be used to complicate court cases (for example, that use of Justice Minister Inga’s cognitive disorder in recognizing faces coming into play)!

Different approaches for moral ambiguity for clients using psychology-- we’ve seen this with defending clients who are actually guilty, or being blackmailed. I’d be interested in seeing a Jekyll and Hyde situation where 2 different sides of one person commit a crime, but one side is unaware of it-- and how a defense lawyer would handle this!

Exploring the plea for insanity in court! Double jeopardy! Escaped convicts! A murder whose trial to find a good jury has been delayed for a long time and is forced to find its resolution outside of court due to the murderer striking again!

Also, to pull in some stuff I read about elsewhere, after reading about moral psychology in Jonathan Haidt’s book The Righteous Mind and moral triggers that typically pull strong reactions (care, fairness, loyalty, authority, sanctity), I was also thinking about how ace attorney manages to build emotionally compelling cases in relation to this model. Ace Attorney imo so far has done pretty alright at hitting most of these triggers at some point to hype the emotion, but for the final case, it ends up being played in what I see as generally the same way (ex: character development starts from from my duty as a lawyer is my role as the defense/prosecutor into that of my duty is to find the truth, authority corrupt and that is bad, justice should be served fairly, I am loyal to my group of prosecutor/defense, also played with loyalty and betrayal in DD with Apollo and Athena splitting, also triggered sanctity a bit in SOJ with the religion, lots of other examples probably but that’s a few). I’d be interested in seeing these same moral triggers played upon in different manner for some variety! Maybe even pursuing some different themes than justice and truth and duty and all that jazz, but idk what else could be alright to explore cause the courts kinda embody all that and deviating to make a statement about other themes might not fit as well in the courts hmm

Also part 2, I wonder if there’ll be romantic undertone somewhere (or heavily implied) for any new or old major characters. Romantic love isn’t usually used with major characters as a plot point (usually platonic stuff, friendship, family, or duty to the truth is instead) but I’d think it’d be interesting if romance was used this time around as an emotional motivator to drive the plot

#ace attorney #ace attorney 7 #aa7 #i kind of wrote this all at once so it's probably really jumbled ahhhhfhhhh #basically i want that sweet major character angst #i might just end up making an AU with these ideas if they're not in AA7 because i want an excuse to see these in a plot hohohoh #anyway i'm trying not to have expectations but i got myself all excited anyway so here we are

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asklaytonandwright · 3 years

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I suppose I won’t take a break. I want to get done with it. I suspected it might have been Olive... At least they didn’t make her turn out to be horrible... The end of the case was still bittersweet. I love dark chocolate, but still... I cried physical tears about that part of the story and they had to go and ruin it!

I really want cases to end on satisfying notes. The only one so far out of both was Gina’s case. Rei’s was alright, but there’s still the unsolved mystery and the fact that no one who knows anything is willing to trust us with the info... This is going to get long in the tooth...

I’m also a bit upset about something else. I’m docking imaginary points any time the game unnecessarily reuses characters. They made the Great Ace Attorney so they would have a whole new world or setting to work with... what have they done so far?

You have so much potential, but you reuse so many of the characters and gimmicks. (Like summation exams every half hour) It’s like its own little pocket instead of a whole new world.

Let’s see, new characters in GAA 2, not counting anyone who so much as showed their face in the first one, one way or another. Who do we have?

Rei Membami- Lovely girl, took a few bites out of Maya. She’s really just a Maya clone though. Maybe an afterthought because the developers realized that Susato wasn’t “Maya” enough. Which, Susato < Maya, sooo yeah. (Not saying I don’t like Susato in her own way. But I’m head over heals for Maya for reasons.)

She so wants Susato now that she’s seen her cross-dressing though, and I am in full support.

Menimemo - Another racist name, good job. Claims he attempted murder for justice, but didn’t actually kill. Passes it off on a sixteen-year-old girl, but pretends it would have been far less heroic for her to do it. When it’s pointed out he’s just as bad as the murderer he killed, he just says, “I guess.” Yeah, he definitely believes that (not).

Mrs Altamont - Gorgeous and fairly reasonable as a juror, honestly. I love her queen bee motif and really she could be my queen. Ahem, moving on.

Duncan Ross - Really sad to have died so young. He was about to start his career and his marriage. Honestly, if I meet the love of my life now after waiting for so long (about fifteen years I suppose) and lose them just like that... I probably WOULD go out like Olive wanted to. Taking their killer down with me.

Selden - Pretty much like Cece Yew or Deid Mann. One of those characters you forget about not long after because the writers practically did too. Okay, next....

Oh, is that it? Brand new setting, you can use all the new characters you want, no obligations to reuse any, and in the first two cases, you use 5 new characters? Two of which barely count because they’re already dead and have very little characterization. Really, AA franchise, I thought you could do better.

Seems like they try to make up for it by having like 75 percent of them be loony toons. I get it, AA has eccentric characters, it’s like their seal of authenticity. But they still need normies to make the wackos stand out! Like all the rest of AA did!

Like, every other character not only is at least a little eccentric, but they practically have to LIVE that silliness 24/7 in this game! Painters have to paint on the stand (I really thought there would be some purpose, like a reveal of her painting), actors have to prance, dance and quote like that’s the only thing that matters, like lunatics! If your job is radio transmissions you do that constantly, you can’t even take a day to, IDK, pay attention on a jury!!! The doctor has to come to court still wearing the gloves from his latest operation, and might I add, not hear half of the GD trial! The list just goes on and on!

Honestly, I really just want them to go back to Phoenix. I really hope they haven’t abandoned him and all the lose ends they left behind, five years ago at this point. And wasn’t it the original creator, Shu Takumi who made GAA? After not working on it since Trials and Tribulations? I have no idea how he worked on Spirit of Justice slightly after the first GAA, getting SoJ right, but GAA wrong. I know a lot of people hate SoJ, as well as DD, but I love them. The people who say that are probably like the gen wunners of the series.

Either way, I don’t know what to think. Just as long as none of the bad elements make it from GAA to the main series. I guess he wanted to try something new with it. Honestly, the music makes it feel like Prof Layton, but with all the charm of Mystery Journey. Maybe he liked what he saw in PLvsAA. I don’t know what it is, but they just can’t make the story work. Not even for individual cases. Aside from a handful of good things (*AHEM* Iris, Gina, Holmes) I’ve been thoroughly let down with this side series. It doesn’t look like there’s going to be a third and I’m actually glad.

Now where the heck is AA7? It’s been five years! I think we all want Apollo and Trucy to find out they’re related already! I mean, it was mentioned at the end! You can’t not finish that!

#great ace attorney #great ace attorney 2 #manager #rant

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agentangeles · 4 years

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Let’s talk about TYAC.

Usually, this blog updates infrequently, and it’s whatever project I’ve got in-progress. The prompt challenge is on temporary hiatus right now, but each individual prompt has been its own contained fic.

I want to take this time to... I dunno, explain this fic? I owe this to nobody, but I still feel that it’s important, because throughout the past year and change, TYAC has been something of a constant for me.

TL;DR for under the read more: no, TYAC isn’t taking over priority for Hallmark Cliches, nor will it be taking priority any time soon.

If you follow my main blog, @implodingcacti, then you might be familiar with this acronym. I’ve tagged posts on my main blog with #still dont have a tyac tag for a while now- yes, I know the tag is goofy, but I never bothered to change it, and it became a running gag. There’s a bit of assorted chatter from last year when progress was really kicking off, and then life hit me during NaNoWriMo and I put it on hiatus.

This fic is, quite literally, the culmination of me deciding that Klavier deserves better than how he’s treated. Capcom has shoved him into the role of a petty cameo, and that’s a damn shame. This fic is me giving him the care and consideration that he honestly deserves. Klavier has so much potential in-canon, and yet he’s let down by a lack of bonds. We know he has a brother, we know that Daryan is his friend, and that’s... it. We know nothing about extended family, or what his time was like at Themis, or the other 3 Gavinners and their individual dynamics. Hell, we don’t even know what happened to Vongole, Kristoph’s dog. Where is she, Capcom? Where did you put our baby?

I’m not gonna pretend that this isn’t an ambitious project. I’m not going to pretend that this fic is going to shatter people’s worlds, too- don’t get me wrong, I’d love to, but I don’t want to disappoint myself. Honestly, I’m not expecting much of anything beyond making him feel as fleshed out as he deserved. I latched onto him after Serenade, getting to see all of those miniature glimpses into his band and recognizing similarities between my own performing experiences, and damn it if I’m not soft on the man. That case really was what sold me on loving him, after all.

That being said- TYAC is still completely unfinished. At the time of writing, my in-doc wordcount is sitting a bit over 100k (103,047 to be exact, in case anyone is curious). This includes scene notes for things I haven’t written, script for in-game cases (because fuck it, I decided I wanted to have the cases in the damn fic), and the fic itself. TYAC is not finished, nor is it close to being done.

If ever I am running a fic that isn’t TYAC, that fic is taking priority. Eventually, I’d love to have TYAC be finished, and I’d love to share it with people. I’m also very aware of my own abilities, and even if I dedicated all of my time to working on it, I’d get quickly burnt out.

I’ve had a lot of estimates about where the fic’ll end up wordcount-wise. Each one has been wrong. I’m setting a rough estimate around 200k, and hoping maybe I land under that. I have no idea if I will.

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I’ve talked about the fic being in sections. Section 1 is its own chapter, and is the shortest so far out of everything. I’m gonna go over the sections upcoming, their names in the doc, and kind of give y’all a rough estimate of what to expect.

Section 2: SEVEN YEAR OVERVIEW; NOW WITH TOURING DRAMA

Takes place where 1 left off, here’s our Gramarye trial and the 7 year gap. Did you like the other Gavinners? There’s a lot of them here. It’s the “developing the Gavinners” section.

Section 3: IN PRESENT TIMES. DISBANDING.

Spans the in-between space of Turnabout Trump and Turnabout Corner to right before the events of DD. We have 3 cases here- Corner, Serenade, and Succession. If you haven’t played AJ, you can essentially read a good chunk of it. The characterization leaks out a bit as well. I know I’m developing Klavier, but there’s someone else who I think would be fun to include...

Section 4: RECONNECTIONS. GOODBYES. A SOLO CAREER THAT KEEPS PAUSING. REPEAT AS NEEDED.

Two games in one- we’re spanning DD through SOJ with this one! One case in detail, though- it’s Turnabout Academy, but this time with less bleh. There’s mentions of other cases, and a bit of overlap, so it isn’t like you’re completely missing out, but there’s a bit more going on with Klavier. Lots of emotional shit. Boy’s gotta react to shit, after all. Capcom, you cannot hide your grieving and comforting from me. Miss me with that shit.

Section 5: TWO YEAR OVERVIEW, NOW WITH TOURING DRAMA, ROUND TWO; ELECTRIC BOOGALOO. (30% more pining edition)

Post-SOJ, baby! Two years of a free and open playground where I am free from the confines of canon and will handle the boy how I see fit. There’s emotional healing in this chapter. Funky friendships. My official promise to the “Do They Know Yet” blog being once-again upheld. I’m tying up loose ends in as many neat bows as I can.

That’s as much as I can touch on without it being spoilers. At any point, please feel free to ask questions about this fic. I am constantly vibrating about this project. Thanks for sticking with me through it all. Hopefully I’ll have new stuff out on it soon!

-Angeles (they/he)

#fic stuff #writing update #TYAC

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flight-of-the-sacred-eagle · 4 years

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Kristoph’s Relationship with Apollo and Klavier

So I’m going to start by saying that this is DARK. Huge trigger warning for mental and emotional abuse and manipulation. Kristoph is an absolute monster and he’s such a great villain that I utterly despise him sooo... yeah.

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I like to think that Kristoph was an absolute master of emotional manipulation. Like. He really gaslighted people. Phoenix had Edgeworth to make sure he knew everything Kristoph was trying to make him believe was wrong, but Klav and Apollo? They didn’t have anyone.

Kristoph had his claws in Klavier from the beginning. I like to think that the Gavin parents were distant- not in an abusive way- but they were distant. Kristoph was always fine with this but Klavier needs reassurance. Kristoph realized this and instantly recognized the potential this had.

Kristoph was the one who reassured Klavier every time he thought he was doing something wrong. Kristoph was the one to comfort Klavier when he had nightmares. Kristoph was the one who was there. It didn’t take long for Klavier to trust his brother so much that he’d do anything Kristoph asked without question

Kristoph used this “power” sparingly at first but the older Klavier got, the more Kristoph manipulated him. He convinced Klavier to go into law (which turned out to actually be a good thing because Klav genuinely loves law) and he convinced Klavier that he should pursue music because he thought Klav would break under the pressure of both (with also turned out to be good for Klavier)

And then the Gramarye case happened. From the get go, Klavier was suspicious that Phoenix hadn’t ordered the false evidence, but Kristoph just kept telling him that he did the right thing and that Phoenix was guilty and Klavier should just continue law and music. Klavier tried pushing back against law but Kristoph was pretty much pushing him back into law, hence the break he took.

And that’s when the gaslighting started. Kristoph knew that Klavier trusted him without question and used that to his advantage. Every phone call had something about the Gramarye case. First it was mention that Trucy was adopted by Phoenix, but it devolved into Kristoph basically explaining how terrible so many people’s lives were because of that trial. Then, it was the win record. By the time Kristoph was arrested, he’d convinced Klavier that the Gramarye trial all his fault and that he was a total failure because his brother had a perfect win record and he had one unfinished trial. He managed to hide it because of his acting abilities but when he met Apollo, his self esteem was so intensely tied to being perfect that the only reason he was so helpful to Apollo is because he genuinely fell in love with him on sight.

Then there’s Kristoph and Apollo’s relationship. Apollo, being abandoned by Dhurke in a foreign country and really only having Clay who probably lost his dad sometime around the end of high school, had pretty much no money. In fact, he didn’t really have enough spare money to even buy a suit and because of that, he got rejected from a lot of internships (it didn’t help that his background seemed pretty sketchy. No record of him in an orphanage and no record of a family references, an ever changing place of birth, etc). Kristoph however saw this as an opportunity. Not only did he hire Apollo, but he even gave Apollo money for a suit and just over all quickly established himself as someone Apollo could trust.

It didn’t take long for Apollo to not only trust him, but for Apollo to start acting somewhat like him. He was pretty much a dog. Kristoph would give him an order and he’d follow it no questions asked. And man did Kristoph take advantage of that. He basically got Apollo so addicted to being given orders that Apollo literally could not do anything law related without asking Kristoph, and after a bit, it started bleeding into his every day life. Clay managed to curb it to an extent, but once Apollo started doing things by himself, Kristoph found something wrong with it every time. Sure he’d point out the mistake with a smile and a hand wave and a simple ‘don’t worry about it- it’s just a small mistake”, but with Apollo having some pretty bad self confidence due to him being abandoned, his confidence was stripped away pretty quickly.

Once Kristoph got arrested for Zak’s murder, which was mostly Phoenix giving Apollo suggestions and pointing him towards the right direction (which makes me think Kristoph did this), Klavier and Apollo had pretty different, yet similar reactions. Both thought it was a fluke. That Kristoph wouldn’t murder someone for no reason. Apollo just kind of retreated into himself for a while, with Clay slowly helping him learn to actually trust himself to make decisions on his own without someone guiding him. All the while he tried getting another law job, but due to his horrific self confidence and the fact that he got his former boss convicted of murder he couldn’t get a job. It wasn’t until he went back to the WAA and he got Trucy who helped suggest to him what to do that he actually started to be able to make his own decision

Klavier on the other hand was pissed because despite all the shit his brother had put him through, he still trusted and loved his brother so much. He wanted to go and humiliate Apollo tbh. That’s the whole reason he stopped his tour. But then he saw Apollo and fell in love with him and started to pretty much fake confidence because he was trying to show off for Apollo. The nicknames, the flirting, it was an act to impress Apollo. And the whole reason Klavier was so upset about something small going wrong during Turnabout Serenade was because of Kristoph’s influence tbh.

Once the Jurist trial ended however, both Klavier and Apollo realized just how abusive Kristoph was to the other (due to the fact that both kind of froze up whenever Kristoph looked at them) but they refused to go to a therapist because they are both really of the opinion that they can get over it. They do however start meeting up and drinking and slowly explaining what Kristoph did to them and trying to figure out why they still looked up to Kristoph.

They manage to find a lot of comfort in each other (and eventually Apollo realizes he’s fallen for Klav and after a lot of awkward dancing around it they get together) and with Trucy doing everything in her power to make both of them feel like they can do anything, by the time DD comes around they’ve gotten pretty good at handling themselves in public but eventually after DD Athena and Simon realize something is up and basically convince the two of them to go to therapists because they really were quite understandably messed up from everything that happened.

By the end SOJ, they are finally confident in their skin.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk about how horrible I think Kristoph is.

#tw emotional manipulation #tw emotional abuse #tw gaslighting #klavier gavin #apollo justice #kristoph gavin #dark backstories #kristoph you're an ass #kristoph really fucked Apollo and Klav up #tw drinking #but its a light mention of it #talks about past #klapollo

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