#he literally saves laios's life

[ladyloveandjustice]

man some anime onlies in the tag virulently hating Kabru which like yeah he's a very flawed little man who leaves a bad impression but it feels so weird to do it after the episode when he doesn't do anything wrong??? actually does a lot of good and helpful things?? And we also got a glimpse of the reason he hates monsters and is paranoid about the dungeon which is an extremely justified Tragic Backstory Reason?

what are y'all mad about in this episode specifically, was it that he was upset about his friends dying? This is the part where you're supposed to use common sense and realize he wasn't as bad as you thought based on the fishman stuff even if his vibes are still questionable.

#actually i think we all know why #try to be less obvious #he literally saves laios's life #i mean the ruthlessness did i feel for my girl yeah would i have done the exact same thing in his position also yeah #dungeon meshi #was it the comical 'should i kill him' overreaction #why hate him when shuro's right there #(i don't hate shuro after reading supplementary material but. he makes a horrible impression in this ep)

[dumbhero]

shuro's bad shuro's the worst i'll kill you i'll kill us both he literally hasnt eaten or showered in days and has been searching for a woman he loves very dearly i think that alone entitles him to be a little cranky with laios + he ALSO doesn't understand social cues because he comes from a totally different culture and social standing. laios is a completely different kind of person than shuro has ever had to deal with before. yes they fight but CLEARLY they don't actually want to hurt each other because if they did shuro could, weakened though he is, turn laios into mincemeat. he's angry but he wants to talk to him. he's angry because if the western elves learn falin was brought back using ancient magic they'll kill her or experiment on her, NOT because he has some beef with ancient magic itself. and literally at the end he tells Laios he's not going to say anything. and that no matter what happens he can call Shuro for help and he'll literally HELP HIM ESCAPE TO HIS HOME IN THE EAST. if you don't like shuro because he "doesnt like laios" you're already wrong because that's a bad reason to dislike a character (laios is legitimately grating and awkward, we find it endearing bc we understand he's not doing it on purpose + we know he's fictional + many of us see ourselves in him anyway) but also he LITERALLY DOES LIKE LAIOS. he finds it difficult to communicate with him just like laios finds it difficult!! if shuro hated him i cannot stress there's a million things he could've done other than punching him back when he slapped him LMAO

#shuro is NICEYS. i will defend him with my life #he literally knows laios is being genuine and sincere and he's resentful of this bc he finds it difficult for himself to be the same way !! #'clearly he hates him' meanwhile he's like hey i dont know if you can actually save her #but regardless of what happens i want you to know i'll help you if you ask. i #i'll literally smuggle you to the east where i'm an heir to the throne #would you not be a little frustrated at the guy who got your name so wrong everybody calls you the wrong thing even if he means well

[onthecrescentofthehill]

I feel like this is such a key moment in Shuro and Falin’s dynamic that i’ve never seen talked about and wish was mentioned again in canon. ‼️THIS IS NOT A SHIP POST‼️ for clarity but to me it adds such an interesting layer to how Shuro must feel towards her and the imbalance in their relationship…..

So much of his character is feeling alienated and inaccessible to the people around him, at first in his own family and then culturally after he left home. the party doesn’t even know his actual name. he’s under so much pressure and could feel like anyone Knowing another side of him would compromise his obligations, and partly why he resents what he views as Laios’s compulsive earnestness so much. but at the same time I think him seeing how much patience and love she has for Laios makes him wonder if he could be safe with her. and in the caterpillar scene he sees Falin finding beauty in something others find repulsive and inconsequential (plus in the recent Adventure Bible we learn he also has an interest in critters….)

I’m not sure when the caterpillar scene takes place in relation to his nightmare, either way she literally enters his subconscious and saves his life!! I’m so so so curious about the details tbh. I can’t imagine how humiliating that would feel but at the same time it took away the need for him to confess any of his weaknesses, Falin took it upon herself and the most Insane part to me is he probably doesn’t even remember what she saw, because Marcille didn’t remember the content of hers. and there’s no way he’d ASK, and Falin wouldn’t volunteer that information.

anywayyyyy Shuro knows she’s seen the deep pain and loneliness at his core and guided him out. he wants that, he DID get it, but doesn’t know HOW!!!! so of course he’d try to chase that in reality and he would feel an intense closeness with her because she’s the only one who who’s Literally Seen that side of him, one that he might not have a full realization of.

it rly captures this imbalance between them that I think Shuro really wants to bridge even if he’s unequipped for it, and Falin doesn’t reciprocate. like. You See Me, Can You Please Show Me What You See? he knows, factually, that she could understand and help him. but he only offers to make her “comfortable.” and at the end of the day she does for him what she would do for anyone, often at great risk to herself (imo her desire for independence in the AB demonstrates her wanting to break this) he knows this and it would be enough, he even admires that about her greatly. but it doesn’t leave much room for her own self actualization.

I don’t have a conclusion other than thank you Ryoko Kui. thank you.

#delicious in dungeon #dungeon meshi #falin touden #shuro #toshiro nakamoto #dungeon meshi spoilers #toshiro haters LOG OFF ✋ thank you

[shisurus]

hehe... it's also in the way laios trusted marcille to bring everyone back to life and save them all in the rabbits chapters just like how delgal put the safety of the entire kingdom in thistle's hands... and both instances were what finally pushed marcille and thistle respectively into interacting with the demon directly. into feeling like there's no other way to satisfy their hearts and bring an end to their suffering other than embracing the winged lion.

and it's how laios was asked to save the kingdom and bear the responsibility as "the chosen one" just as delgal inherited the same duty and had all this pressure put upon his shoulders. it's delgal who was the one to literally kick start this quest laios was on by revealing the dungeon to the outside world and laios was the one to finish delgal's last mission. but it was only yaad in delgal's body that could truly bring an end to this tragedy by letting thistle rest in peace for the first time in over a thousand years, and that happened due to laios bringing back the golden kingdom residents' hope, spurring them into action, and marcille destroying their prison and giving them the chance to escape.

it's how thistle was trying in his last moments of clarity before the demon finished him off to see delgal again, "passing on" that request to marcille, and how it backfired- seeing falin again was the catalyst for her making a pact with the winged lion.

it's marcille and laios's efforts that eventually saved the people thistle tormented and loved so dearly, and if it weren't for them and their journey, thistle wouldn't have been able to reconcile with the person he loved most, or at least believe that he did. and in the same way, laios and marcille's relationship wouldn't have been as close and fulfilling as it is by the end of their adventure, each reaching their own conclusions, if it weren't for the base of delgal and thistle's love that this entire dungeon was built upon. and now laios and marcille are keeping alive the kingdom thistle cherished, his home, their home- the place they could settle in comfortably, surrounded by their most beloved people, after years of seeking that warmth and understanding. they're all connected in a way that surpasses thistle and marcille's perception of time and eternity. a thousand years ago, today and forever on. it's a tale of the endurance of love.

#dungeon meshi #i love all of them so much u dont even know...aaugghhh #laios touden #marcille donato #thistle

[ehhgg-art]

you ever think about the fact that laios won not by being a monster but by being human.

monsters as we’ve seen throughout the manga are predictable, they have this rhythm to them that, once someone understands, can be used to take them out. take kelpies like anne where laios states that she is just a monster and cannot be trusted. even kensuke is “just a monster after all”, running away from danger when laios needs it most. kensuke is beloved by laios not just because he is a monster, but because laios, in human fashion, anthropomorphized him in his mind (giving him a name, etc.)

but people are different. they are multifaceted, non-monolithic creatures. long lived races are not all pious and apathetic towards short lived races as we see with marcille and senshi. chilchuck actively works against the prejudice against half-foots. tallmen from every region have their cultural differences as we see with shuro and laios/falin. even “demi-humans” like orcs have depth to them, having rich culture and values despite the general idea that they are a violent pillaging race.

even laios’ family and village, the nexus point for his dislike of people, have depth to them. though their parents did not actively protect their children, they did not wish harm on them either. the exorcisms performed on falin by their mother was harmful in laios’ eyes, but helpful in his mother’s perspective.

laios himself, despite loving monsters and hating humans, is so very painfully human. he hates humans but has risked life and literal limb to save his sister and his party. he loves monsters but is aware of their dangerous nature and spares them no mercy.

(big spoilers under the cut)

the winged lion mistook laios as a one dimensional entity, one which only operates on a one track mind without paradox. it thought laios to operate like a monster, and so it approached his desires like one. it believed that laios, being so obsessed with monsters, must behave like one as well, so completely disregarded the fact that laios could have something up his sleeve.

but laios is not a monster, he is human. he has ulterior motives, overlapping beliefs, contradicting values. it is his humanness that made him explain to his party what to do when things went awry. it is his humanness that allowed him to lie. lie to the world about his true plan as well as lie to the winged lion about his intentions.

sure laios WANTS to be a monster, that much is definitely true. but what he IS is a different story. laios is an unpredictable, sporadic, messy human being. it is that fact which the winged lion overlooked, and ultimately led to its downfall and laios’ victory.

#ohh the multifaceted nature of human beings and the beauty of the human condition #ryoko kui really outdid herself #dungeon meshi you will always be important to me #anyways don’t mind me i’m just having Laios thoughts #ignore the fact that i accidentally said two dimensional entity the first time i know language i swear #laios touden #laius thorden #??? #dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #dunmeshi #dunmesh spoilers #the winged lion #rambles #ryoko kui #anime #manga #analysis

[chaospikes]

I think that one of my favorite things in dunmesh is just how Laios saved everyone by just being really autistic about his interests lol.

He was literally abused, othered, bullied and isolated for being himself throughout his whole life basically forcing him to keep inside his true self, the one time he tried to open up and being himself around another guy before the main events, it ended up with him learning that the other guy actually hated the way he showed his interests and found him really annoying and through several point in the manga we see people wary of Laios' interest in monsters as a potential recipe for catastrophe and what happened?

Laios beat this unimaginably old and powerful being which is the closest thing to a god in the dunmesh world only because he thought their ability to eat desires was cool af and added it to his self insert monstersona. He defeated this being so unimaginably powerful that their pressence can be felt in all parts of world history by eating their desires as his self insert monstersona he designed when he was 12.

Like holy shit, he saved the day, saved the world, saved EVERYONE by just being unapologetically himself which wouldn't have really happened had he not opened up and had his group not warmed up to his real self.

It's alright to be yourself, actually you are at your best when you are yourself, you can change the world by just being yourself and there's no need to hide that self because your real self is just so damn important and valuable.

Thanks Laios Dungeon Meshi

#spoilers #dungeon meshi spoilers #dungeon meshi #dunmesh #delicious in dungeon #Laios Touden #Winged Lion

[alphaketoglutaricacid]

shuro notes

upon rereading some of dungeon meshi, I got a better grasp on his role in the story and why hes in the main supporting cast along w kabru (main protag of the suporting cast), namari, and mithrun (main antag of the supp cast) . Contrary to most of the characters disliking eating monsters, he seems to dislike eating, period. In his first appearance he refuses to eat maizurus cooking (with maybe some mermaid eggs sprinkled in..?). His refusal to eat ties into his extreme passivity. He seems to dislike how his father does what he pleases with no regard to how it affects others, and his fear of doing the same seems to play a huge role in how he lets other ppl walk all over him. He ignores his own desires, including his own hunger, because consuming means taking another life. To live means something else has to die, so to desire is to want to take from others. To try to live up to the image of an impassive leader he tries to not participate in this process at all! But bc hes a human being he has to eat, so instead of never taking from others, he starves.

With Falin, I think he realizes there is a way forward where he could be himself and face the ugly realities of what it means to want. To be unabashedly yourself while not hurting everyone in your life. His love comes from a deep place of admiration! I think part of the reason why he's so dead set on saving her is bc he wants to be her equal—she saved him from his nightmares without a second thought, and part of it is to repay her kindness and to be able to reciprocate it. I think he foils nicely w marcille bc he proposes to her (asks her to choose her future) while marcille doesnt want her to move on from the time they were both children. I think this plays a huge part in why marcille hates him, bc its a reminder of how the time will pass and also he aims to take falin away from her. Interestingly, she also became fairly distant and withdrawn after falin left and they both formed their relationship w her bc dirt and bugs r cool. They both are the party members in Laios squad that fly off the handle the most. Socioeconomically, they both seem to be in the least dire straits and kinda prissy abt things as a result. On re-read something else clicked into place.

After his fight w laios that starts w legit grievances and devolves into him hitting all of laios’ insecurities like a game of whack-a-mole, shuro says he’s returning to his home country and after that he would never see any of these ppl again. Even before falin got eaten, he knew he was going to have to leave the party but couldnt bring himself to tell them. The way the convo goes, it seems part of the reason why he proposed to her so suddenly is bc he wants to take a part of his time on the island back home with him—i.e. that hes not ready to say goodbye. That the prospect was taken from him so suddenly is why this is the first thing hes asked for or wanted for himself. Interesting parallels to how marcille is not ready to live the rest of her 1000 year life without her friends now, and how falins death is a catalyst that brings her fear to the surface—that for both of them, theyll live the rest of their lives never seeing the ppl they love from this island again. I think part of the reason he is so nasty to laios in particular is bc his entire worldview falls apart at laios' actions

Both desire wise and literally, Shuro is starving. And like a starving person getting his first meal in a long time, I think he gets a little greedy—when he gives Laios the bell, he says if the party somehow makes it past thistle, to ring it so they can all escape to the East--where he's headed. Likewise marcilles solution is to bring everyone with her to the 1000 year lifespan. Thats surprisingly childish of both of them! Also not a solution to the problem that suits anyone but themselves. Theres so many solutions to this. He could write. He could call. He could communicate view morse code using that bell instead of attempting to blink in morse code to communicate to laios how he doesnt want to be here. Falin voice: I’ll go visit you, okay? He could set foot on the island again. Honestly. This is so embarrassing for him.

But I think it gets at a core theme of the work. Marcille, Laios, and Shuro all say their greatest desire is to save Falin, but once u get down to it, theyre pretty basic-to not be left alone, to be w monsters who u feel a kinship with, to not have to leave. Namari says she left bc of money but later on goes u must never let go of your fear. Kabru says he wants to get to know laios to prevent utaya from happening again but its much simpler-he wants to be his friend. Our base desires are petty, but they are what keep us going day to day, just like how every living being has to hunger and eat to achieve the goals they set out for.

Lets talk abt his relationship w his retainers.

Hein- theyre childhood friends that have drifted apart in adulthood. By the familiar way she talks about him when hes not around, I think she wants to be close to him again. I think the distance between them is probably intentionally imposed by Shuro bc hes afraid theyll turn out like maizuru and his father. She thinks hes unreliable in a way i think u can only rlly get when u know someone for that long. I wonder if some of that I thought wed always end up together and I want him to like me even tho I dont like him back is wanting that closeness in friendship again

Maizuru- Good god whats happening here. she loves him but also treats him like a child even tho hes a 26 year old man. I think its got fun connections to how kabrus adoptive mom treats him like a child, how marcilles not ready to see falin n herself as adults, thistles relationship w degal. Now these are all relationships where differences in lifespan come into play, but w maizuru n shuro i think u see something real banal in why these elves cant let the ppl in their lives go. She coddles him bc she loves him and tells him at the end he doesn't have to eat the dragon if he doesn't want to, but he rebukes her and says he has to eat it to accept his own failures. So like he doesn't need to be coddled he needs ppl in his life to challenge him so he can grow. And at the end he realizes it tastes good--that even tho his journey had so much conflict and in the end he failed to save falin he made friends! He grew as a person! He starts reaching out to his retainers again! He got to harrass the elf cops and give them migraines! Ties a lot into laios speech to marcille that if falin didnt die they wouldn't have met all these ppl and gotten to eat all this food.

Its wild she put that hag curse on him. Poor kid cant even take a shit in peace. Actually the fact that he couldnt even have that time for himself n grew up constantly feeling watched explains a lot. I think the fact his father nonchalently burnt it and then roasted mochi over it without giving him any explaination made him think oh this is just what everyone goes through and im the weird one for being frightened. And it takes him 20 years to find out that no, its not normal to be haunted by a ghost that chases you with a knife. Pretty apt metaphor for how rules have defined his life without him fully understanding why they're in place. I'll give it a crack tho--it seems like the time period his homelands based on the sengoku period bc its a period of heavy civil war where ppl below upsurped the ppl above them. The strict hierarchy is probably an attempt to exercise social control in an extremely precarious situation.

Also side note: kinda impressive he can do magic when he was six. Probs a combination of maizuru being a talented teacher and his own skill. The fire cast… close but no cigar. Also interesting is how the magic he casts seems more elf-y in nature vs maizurus gnomic spirit magic. I wonder if hes his partys black mage- the occupation his party is pointedly missing vs the toudens missing their white mage and kabrus party being well rounded at all points. If so thats hilarious that when the toudens lost their previous mage and everyone was panicking he was like well… im just not gonna say anything #OnBrand. I do wonder if the bell he gives laios is his own magic tho.

Also shuros mother is mad at maizuru for being shuros dads mistress but gives her her children to raise…. Lets unpack this contradiction. Incidentally my tin foil hat theory is Shuros a bastard child. maizuru n his dad have been fucking since 4ever -> one of these children is not legitiment -> probs the one w a strange distance from the rest -> whys shuro succeeding his dad so up in the air when his competitions a 14 and an 8 year old. It's not important tho.

izutsumi + inutade: the fact that he doesnt speak up is his defining moment of moral cowardice. Its tied to his passivity! Hes scared of saying or doing the wrong thing bc hes afraid of hurting others, and he does basically attempt to torch his relationship w laios like it was contaminated w anthrax. Like the first time he tries to be active it went horribly, but his involvement moves the plot forward enormously—with him kabru would not have run into Laios, izutsumi would probably not have been able to run away, he raises the stakes of the journey by indicating they probs cant return to the surface so they have to keep going. And even tho its messy, ugly, and embarassing, he can still pick up the pieces afterwards. Nothing he does is as harmful as his passivity on inutade and izutsumis situations which unequivically, he knows is wrong.

Also w all the references to buying people, I looked it up bc i was like.... like slavery...? it seems to be a reference to retainership as a social caste where people buy your services and as a result you owe the estate your service. You get paid and you have rights, but it seems like you are bound to your station, but depending on the time period japan is supposed to reference, some ppl took on these positions for the sake of social advancement. Regardless, it seems the caste system is also less rigid than stated and ppl can move amongst the positions. There doesn't seem to be an exact cultural equivelent to this, but I think the closest concept is like, being a vassal. I was like if this is slavery this narrative portrays izutsumis time w the nakamotos too ambivenlently and hien going don't you feel any gratefulness for them taking you in makes no sense. But I still think theres something pretty rotten going on here.

Allegedly, as a ninja, you ascend the ranks based on your skill. And yet izutsumi and inutade are at the bottom, and hien, the person that was born into this role, is at the top! Izutsumi and Inutade aren't even considered human in the island of wa--this distinction is given to tall-men only. Theyre both from positions where I feel like the other characters are like they should be grateful they got from one horrible situation to this one thats a system based on merit and skill, but like out of everyone, theyre in the least position of power to say no, to even appreciate what other options there are for them in the world. Like its deeply coercive and wrong. Whats up w shuros father collecting ppl like theyre trophies man. So we can see a system allegedy based on merit is not one at all. Also I feel theres undertones of japanese imperialism with izutsumi being from the equivelent of central asia and having a soul of a child stuffed into her like some kinda of science experiment. Maizurus constantly trying to "civilize" her by teaching her ettiquite such as using your chopsticks. Like the rhetoric of the elves ape pretty directly to imperialistic sentiments, it would not surprise me if theres intentional commentary about japanese imperialism in how izutsumis treated bc japans kinda known in the east for their imperialism... theyve just done it so many times like my parents were like we left our families, our culture, everything we knew behind to go to america.... but we kept our death grudge against japan tho!! #lmfao. Honestly fair. anyways i think theres intentional parallels between how izutsumi is treated as both as a child and a feral animal by maizuru and how the elves treate other races as children that need toys taken away from them. But also how fundementaly, maizurus unsuited to take care of izutsumi bc the tools she has are not suited to izutsumis needs! She has no understanding of izutsumis life. Her hag curse turns from a highly questionable child rearing tactic on shuro to outright a slave collar on izutsumi. Teaching shuro ettiquate and being able to fight gives him the tools to survive in the postion he was born in but is erasing the culture izutsumi grew up in and has been taken away from before she even knew what it meant. Bc she was treated like a circus freak she never got to choose for herself! Tho providing the basic comforts to shuro is a privilage, it's not to izutsumi bc shes never been able to choose what she wants in life. It's why shes set up as shuros narrative foil like so:

This is his pensive look btw its a consistant tic that he lookes like hes glaring when hes deep in thought. Maizurus is both these people's strange mother figure who feeds them in liu of their actual mother. She smothers shuro in love and doesn't let him face actual challenges in life while she intensely disciplines izutsumi. Shuro reacts to this by aquiessing and never making demands of his own while izutsumi constantly refuses to conform. This is probably why he doens't get her.

In the early points of the story, shuro either says leave izutsumi for dead or leave her so she can pursue her freedom. The ambiguity is intentional, because i think in this part of the story we are not supposed to have a good read on him. But it's also because because of his passivity he doesn't do shit for her! So he loses out on having any type of relationship w her even tho they were tormented by the same curse. But crucially he may have learned from this w inutade, who he explicitly aknowledges how her situation is fucked up and her worship of his father is due to an insane power imbalance even tho he has no clue how to talk to her about this. And at the very end of the manga, he gets into an eating contest with her at her prodding as equals. So maybe there's hope he can do better. But I think its important that his relationship w izutsumi is non-existent as a consequence of his passivity despite the things they have in common bc theres no excuse for it. Thier relationship probs deserves its own post.

benichidori - very funny amongst all these complicated relationships these two just straight up dont know each other n r too shy to do so. Is what I was going to say but then I realized benichidori has taken shuros place as hiens closet friend and I wonder if theres any jealousy abt that. But also she shares a lot of traits w shuro and isnt that just interesting:

but even more interesting is her comic:

this is beat for beat shuros conflict w laios.

We only care about one thing: the crushing opinion of everyone in the universe.

I didnt get this on my first read even tho laios was like hes smart but he is incredibly sharp. Hes good at making useful deductions when things dont add up. It rlly reminds u hes trained in espionage.

He keeps kabru on his toes! interesting for such a smooth talker.

He gets kabru to open up about his motivations here and how it affected him and kabru actually shares some of his own feelings on the manner when usually hes holding ppl at arms length. I think him getting a chance to recite this helps prep him to talk to the caneries where notably, hes a lot more clinical about it.

Its nice all three of these ppl can challenge each other and support each other. I think it would be funny if kabru hits em up in the future like do u wanna start some shit for old times sake

able to tell chilchuck was not a child

is afraid of marcille which tbh fantastic call

Everyone else horrified marcille just killed a man but he's like yeah #tracks.

Other things that reminded me hes basically a fixer:

Spends his screentime evading the elf cops.

Refuses to talk to the canaries even under threat of being interegated for 50 years despite threatening laios party multiple times that hes gonna tell on them. instead spends his time going tbh i've never known anything in my life. I'm stupid like that :pensive emoji:

Incredible bit of manipulation on his part-he pretends to be thinking out loud to cast doubt on the canaries judgement to appeal to the ppl in the dungeon that are not motivated by the goodness of their hearts. Reminds me of namaris relatively selfish reasons for leaving the party--needing to get paid, which is a need she was ignoring for far too long and also laios was also not paying proper attn too when namaris in dire straits, and how she says she left the party after the dragon bc she remembered to never forget your fear. That selfishness must also drive you forward. Then he uses that doubt to twist the situation to say all their information could be false so maaaybe the situation is not as dire as they claim and they have other motives (social control). And he pretends hes talking to the caneries but this is directed to everyone else. He and namari pretend to pick a fight so the leader's distracted and everyone else uses this opening to scatter, which causes enough chaos that it breaks the control the elves have. Which is wild bc shuro knows the dungeon is dangerous bc kabru told him about utaya. He also knows laios party can be dangerous w the amount of collateral they cause w the dragon. He puts a lot of ppl in danger that do not need to be even though multiple times he worries about people getting hurt. At his core, tho, I think he wants to see laios and his party again and that selfish desire trumps everything else in this moment. Namari and shuro are so ride or die TBH.

He never shares any of this when not prompted. Except notably at the end he interrupts when ppl think laios might be dead. Which as an aside I think its interesting his biggest contribution to saving falin is not thru his fighting prowess, but through the simple fact he reached out to laios. His compassions his greatest strength. Laios frestrautes him and kabru, and they both punch him and complain that theyll never understand him, but I think they dont have to. Love requires compromise—it requires eating things you really dont want to, you clash and you hurt each other, but what matters most is that you keep reaching out to one another, that you keep on trying to understand each other. Living requires you to hurt and be hurt, to give and take.

Once again stuck in the middle of an insane and ancient beef

low key funny that he remembered the last time he was here and he was like u know what.... ill just sit this one out....

If my son told me he spent the last week pissing off the elf cops, Id be like yeah thats what the nakamotos are all about TBH

Theres pretty juicy stuff abt how laios is interested in shuro because hes exotic like a monster and his own relationship with being othered by ppl and the fact that shuro is constantly referred to as a foreighner even to ppl hes known and has risked his life for for two years + how to laios monsterhood is a type of freedom while being othered is a type of dehumanization for shuro + how hes trying to show some kind of solidarity to shuro but hes microagressing him thru his attemps + how laios just is being explicitly saying the racist beliefs everyone else implicitly holds just like how mithrun says other races are inferior races which horrifies the rest of the elves but its honestly what they believe but I'm tired and need to think abt it a bit more.

Why do shuro and his party from an island primarily composed of humans and other ppl sometimes not classified as humans but have similair lifespan bc of sociopolitical reasons imitate so many interracial dynamics despite being of the same race? It's to show how marcilles wrong about how the inequality between races exists bc of lifespan differences. Her own fears due to fantastical reasons of being a half-elf and unable to relate any of her insecurities to other ppl are not exclusive to her! Tall-men - Tall-men relationships run along the same lines and have the same conflicts. All the things she fears are things that make her human, that other people have also felt.

in conclusion:

think abt the messiest person u know. Its a man

jk its marcille #feminism

#Dungeon meshi spoilers #shuro #toshiro nakamoto

[graceylacey]

is laios touden happy?

I keep coming back to the question that a lot of Dungeon Meshi (manga) fans seem to be asking: is Laios happy at the end?

My two cents on this is: well, yeah. He actually is.

He’s sacrificed a lot, it seems, far more than all of the other characters. He’s the driving force behind the reason they survived to save Falin - through eating the monsters. Only in the end, he’s not able to explore dungeons, be near monsters (RIP his special interest) or even eat without feeling 30% empty. It’s a real tough bargain.

But that’s the whole point. And that loss makes the story so much more impactful to me.

When talking with the Winged Lion at the end, Laios’ true desires appear. But we can see through Mithrun, Thistle and Marcille’s time as Dungeon Lords that The Winged Lion seems to expose really selfish wishes that, whilst having good intent, don’t end up benefiting others the way the Dungeon Lord wants.

Obvious as it may seem, Laios’ true main wish IS to save Falin over the course of his storyline. It’s what drives him despite having other, arguably impossible, desires that he longs for.

Even though Laios wishes to become a monster, this desire has never overtaken his motivation in any other part of the narrative.

Yes, he loses a lot. But he’s gained Falin.

It seems obvious, but that’s the key to why I think this is a good ending for him. It’s about sacrifice. Itsusumi is a great microcosm for this - you have to do things you don’t want to do, eat things you don’t want to eat. You also have to give up things you don’t want to in order to gain more.

The similarity between Dungeon Meshi and Fullmetal Alchemist (manga) is wonderful to me. Both stories explore the giving and taking of life and the goals of our lives. 

At FMA’s conclusion, Ed sacrifices his ability to do alchemy; the reason the whole story started. It cost him and Al so much, but also helped them recover what they’d lost and literally save the world (are we starting to see the similarity?). Whenever I reread FMA, it’s sometimes hard watching Ed give up all his talent and everything he worked towards. What does he have without it? But for him, in that moment, it’s not such a difficult price to pay to get his brother back.

Maybe Laios is not aware of how much he would lose when he defeats the Winged Lion. But we do know he wants his friends and Falin to be saved, even if he dies. But that’s the thing! Both he and Falin are prepared to die to save their loved ones, but what about being prepared to LIVE to save their loved ones?

In our lives, we won’t often be sacrificing our lives for people, but we might be faced with a choice to give up things we love for people we love. Losing his life would be the easy way out (a great example of this is through Mithrun. It takes conscious effort to live. It seems so much simpler to die). Losing your dreams is hard, but that’s what it ended up costing for the safety of not just Laios’ friends but the world. He made that choice, now he must live with it. Even if he’s not fully happy at the end of the narrative, he still can be. You can be happy without having everything you desperately desire. That’s Dungeon Meshi.

Dungeon Meshi’s theme of neurodivergence fit into this really well. Personally, I think Laios is the perfect person to become King, possibly because he doesn’t think he should be. We know it’s not necessarily what he wants to do most. Heck, we know he doesn’t even like people that much and they don’t even seem to like him. But that’s what will make him the perfect candidate. Unlike others, he doesn’t have some high and mighty vision of becoming revolutionary at the end, nor does he have misconceptions about his abilities. He is genuinely righteous and humble, whilst having his flaws.

Laios knows what it’s like to feel different, outcasted by the world. But despite being awkward, strange, having weird interests and an inability to read social cues; people that once hated him ultimately end up having his back. There are bound to be others like him in his world (and ours), who don’t feel like they belong within humanity. People that would want a benevolent leader who genuinely cares and is enthused about things that don’t fit the norm because he doesn’t either.

It’s not his dream job but I believe he will eventually settle into it. We see this in the extra chapter where he willingly gives up his sword. That hit me hard. It felt a bit like a betrayal, like he was giving up who he was and everything he had worked for. But maybe it just shows that it’s okay that he couldn’t achieve all his desires. At least now Falin can achieve hers, and wasn’t that his fear for so long? That she would be lost and alone without him?

But now, because of Laios, Falin has the ability to choose her own path. She can choose make to leave as he once left her without the fear and guilt that Laois felt with his own departure. It shows both of them that it’s okay for them to take separate paths. They can grow and change and love each other from wherever they are. That protection, that survival and that connection between people is at the heart of Dungeon Meshi to me.

Both Laios and Falin choose to live. When Laios eats the Winged Lion’s appetite and Falin returns it’s down to their own decision. The choice to eat; the choice to experience life the way it was intended, with all its thorns. When they eat the monstrous parts of themselves they choose to be human, they choose the consequences of life, they choose to change and to go forwards. They are two sides of the same coin.

It seems only just that after all Laios has been through and after all we’ve seen him do, he should be allowed a perfect happy ending. But that’s just not Dungeon Meshi, is it?

There will always be sacrifices. Dungeon Meshi is not just about accepting life and death, but also accepting the possibility that you may not achieve everything you want, that things will not always go to plan but that you can always achieve other things despite this. 

Laios has made his choice to become King. Just like the choice to eat, it’s another part of life and of moving forward. Think of all the good he could do. I think he can be happy. That’s life.

#dungeon meshi #laios touden #falin touden #delicious in dungeon #mithrun #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #first post

[chuthulhu-reads]

[ID: Two panels from Dungeon Meshi. The first scows Senshi clutching his face as tears start to spill out of his eyes, saying, "I've always... always wanted to have this soup one more time." He's not wearing his helmet in this panel, so his face is unusually visible, detailed and vulnerable. The second panel shows himself as a youngster, surrounded by his old mining team, all smiling at each other, one of them rubbing Senshi's head. Modern-day Senshi continues, "Thank you. All of you. Thank you." End ID.]

Holy shit. I anticipated some tragic backstory from the "I must feed the young ones" panels, but what I'd guessed was that Senshi might have become so devoted to cooking and eating literally whatever because he'd previously survived a famine and had seen children starve to death. I did not expect him to have been the child who was the sole survivor of a doomed travel party, one of whom was determined to feed Senshi first because he was the youngest, and that Senshi has lived with the fear of having inadvertently committed cannibalism by eating stew that he'd never quite known the contents of. I'm happy for him that Laios deduced and confirmed for him that it was griffin meat, that he was able to taste the meal that saved his life once more and remember the friends he lost. Seriously, I'm crying, and also earnestly relieved that while his backstory is pretty dark, it's not the type of fucked up I'd been preparing myself mentally for.

#Dungeon Meshi #Delicious in Dungeon #Dunmeshi #though it IS really worth exploring the ethics of cannibalism in survival situations #The podcast You're Wrong About has a really interesting pairing of episodes #in the Donner Party and Flight 571 Crash episodes #Both about disasters in which people wound up eating their dead to survive #and an interesting connection they drew was that it wasn't the cannibalism itself #that destroyed the lives of the Donner survivors #it was the horror and disgust and societal rejection they got for having eaten human flesh #even the children who had no idea what they were eating were treated with revulsion #and this is clearly the response Senshi feared facing if anybody knew what he'd eaten #But Flight 571 like a century later #the survivors were faced with a lot of understanding when rescued #relatively little condemnation and revulsion #by and large commentators acknowledged that they did what they had to do #and sympathized with how difficult and painful it must have been #which is what Senshi gets from his party #Laios wants to figure out the truth because he knows it's hurting Senshi not to know #But at one point Marcille straight up says that none of them would think less of Senshi if he did eat dwarf stew #Okay so this is Marcille 'ardent student of blood magic' Donato #but Chilchuck agrees #anyway I think that would be a particularly interesting conversation to have in a cooking manga #how do you safely eat a dead friend when that's all you have to survive on? #what are the nutritional benefits other than 'better than starving'? #what are the risks? There's prion diseases and all sorts you can get #they write it off as eating the dragon part but they DO spend seven days eating Falin at the end #ARE there any in/famous cannibalism cases in this world? #Do peopel argue about whether or not it's cannibalism if a dwarf eats a tallman? #enquiring minds (mine) want to know

[crossf15]

Dungeon Meshi spoilers

Dungeon Meshi is so good because I got into it in its earlier arcs when everybody was posting out of context funny gags and panels. So I went into it like "Wow funny food gag manga with cute dwarf" and then it turned out like THIS???

The way Ryoko Kui pulled the rug from under us was genuinely masterful. Marcille's corruption arc was such a strong red herring, that I completely missed the foreshadowing for Laios'. Which is funny, because every character, including Laios Thorden himself, has basically been stating plainly what he was going to do when he became the lord of the dungeon from the start.

For me, as an autistic man, it should have been obvious. Like, of course Laios fucking hates people. He and his sister spent their whole childhoods being treated as lesser because they weren't "normal" enough. When he finally learned how to blend in, this just ended up making him easy to take advantage of, and boy did they. His generic "human fighter" façade wasn't just a subversion of writing tropes, it was something Laios himself did purposefully so people didn't reject him.

Even when he finally found a group of friends that truly, genuinely cares about him, there's still that disconnect. They love him, but they don't really get it. They're offput by his more eccentric qualities, the things that make him him. Because of this, Laios is scared to tell them how he really, genuinely feels, because everyone else before them has left him.

Then when he's confronted by the Winged Lion, he has all of his darkest impulses, and his deepest feelings laid out in front of him. He can't hide these aspects of himself anymore, literally. However, it's liberating in a strange way. He can't hide, but he doesn't have to hide anymore. More than anything, Laios wants to be himself without the constant fear of persecution. He doesn't want his life to be defined by whether or not people understand or accept him. The Winged Lion of course, knew this from the moment Laios stepped foot in the dungeon. It's not just that his desires are strong, complex, and tasty. Laios is vulnerable, isolated, and easy prey.

The most tragic part to me, is that if Laios did confide in his friends about this darker, more bitter part of himself, I feel like a lot of this could've been prevented. Marcille knows intimately what it feels like to be different from everyone else, and Senshi's experienced what it's like to be unwanted. He doesn't have to be pretend to be happy-go-lucky and heroic all the time. They could've helped him if they knew, but now, Laios is fully under the Winged Lion's control. The Winged Lion got exactly what he wanted.

I feel like there's still hope though. Much like Farlyn, Laios is still there, just in a different shape. The only way they can save him now, is if they fully accept him, inside, and out. Anyway, this is how the story's going to pivot to the Laios x Senshi endgam-

#dungeon meshi spoilers #spoilers #dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #laios thorden

[tofixtheshadows]

hi!! so there are a lot of improbabilities that make this hypothetical unlikely but: if kabru had met toshiro first & recruited him (toshiro being so passive + not with a clear goal would have helped there & kabru is ptsd-driven but very noble in his goals which can be explained) AND they got all the way down to the bottom (idk if i believe in them...but hypothetically!) would the winged lion find either of them to be a good target for next dungeon lord? one over the other? im thinking kabru has the intensity and complexity of desire necessary but i can't imagine what it would look like if he became lord of the dungeon. do you have any thoughts?

Good morning. This is a very fun thought experiment!

(side note: I got a second anon this morning with a very similar request? not sure if related. I'm gonna let this answer speak for both of them)

Toshiro sure would have had a different time of it if Kabru had gotten to him first, huh? On the one hand, Toshiro seems to like Kabru; I think it's sweet that Kabru seems to gravitate towards hanging out with him when he isn't with the rest of the main cast. So they probably would've been good in a party together.

On the other hand, Toshiro never would have met Falin and fallen in love with her. Even if she didn't reciprocate in the end, I don't think he regrets anything that happened. Even his difficult friendship with Laios was ultimately positive (for both of them!).

They definitely would not have made it to the deeper floors, I think Senshi is crucial to achieving that ... but this is a hypothetical.

I'm puzzling over the question of Toshiro, because he is a secondary character and there's only so much we know about his motivations. His big one in canon is to save Falin, even if it means all he can do is put her to rest. Without that, without her, what sort of desires does he have?

Toshiro originally came to the Island because of a demand from his father: for one of his three sons to find "something interesting" enough on their travels to bring back home that would convince their capricious bastard father to make them his heir over the others. So they're all off on their separate training journeys with their respective retainers with the added caveat that they can't return without something to impress their father. It's implied that after falling in love with Falin, Toshiro had wanted to bring back home a wife.

Since he's said to inherit the family after he returns home without her anyway, I've been assuming that the "thing" Toshiro ended up bringing to Toshitsugu Nakamoto was the story of the dungeon, the demon, and his friend Laios, king of a risen country and Devourer of All Things Horrible.

Anyway, the things we know about Toshiro's home life are kind of fucked. It's amazing he turned out to be so nice. He's always been a shy, sensitive person, and he was sickly as a child; Maizuru cared for him despite her spymaster duties and ended up filling a motherly role for him, even though Toshiro's mother is still alive. Historically, it wasn't uncommon for noble children to be raised more closely by their governesses/household retainers than their parents, so perhaps something similar was happening here (disclaimer that I don't know much about feudal Japan specifically).

We know that Maizuru loves Toshiro and dotes on him, but she's also very strict and frankly terrifying; she used the same Hag summon that she was monitoring Izutsumi with on Toshiro as a child just to keep him from wandering off. We also know that when he found out that Maizuru was having an affair with his father, it put a distance between them. Whether this is because he felt betrayed on his mother's behalf or because he dislikes his father that much, or something else, is unclear.

Toshiro was childhood friends with Hien, but as they got older, she had to take his place as one of his retainers, which seems to have severed that closeness. Canonically, he isn't close to his two younger brothers either. Toshitsugu literally bought Inutade and Izustumi (the latter as a drunken "gift" for Maizuru!). We see that Toshiro is uncomfortable with this, but doesn't know how to approach the issue. He lets Izutsumi go the second she's out of sight for five minutes, which implies to me that he really wanted the excuse to do so. Inutade is harder, because she loves being with the Nakamoto family and hero-worships Toshiro's father.

...all this to say, Toshiro has complicated relationships with his family and household. There's love there, but also a lot of coldness enforced by the upper-class need for propriety. Toshiro falls in line and acts as the proper stoic samurai, but he chafes at this; he envies Laios's gift for feeling and expressing things openly and readily. I think that's what the Winged Lion would prey on, given the chance.

I don't think he would be prime dungeon lord material, but if it came to that, I could see the Lion tempting Toshiro with a kinder vision of his life, one where he and his little brothers weren't pitted against one another, where his family was warmer, where there weren't barriers of class between him and his retainers, where he was allowed to be more himself.

Now ... Kabru.

Kabru is interesting because, since his ultimate goal is to seal the dungeon and eradicate monsters, I imagine that meeting a demon would be like a guy who's given a genie and wants to wish for no more genies. And if said genie is trying to take over the world via wishes, the genie is a bit screwed. I really think that Kabru is the character who would stump the demon(s) the most, despite his complex desires, because they are antithetical to the demon. Laios also had complex desires, but the Winged Lion lured him and set him up as the hero of a fake prophecy because a lot of Laios's desires revolved around monsters, so his wants aligned perfectly with the demon's methods. Oh you want monsters? That's great, they're the things I use to solve most of my problems anyway.

Even in the absence of prior knowledge of demons, I think Kabru's back would be up as soon as the Winged Lion tried speaking to him. Kabru's insight is almost preternatural, and he's well-versed in persuasive speaking thanks to his own silver tongue. He would mistrust the Lion immediately, especially considering its monster-like form.

Giving the demons bestial appearances is an artistic choice on Kui's part, so I don't think there's any indication that the Winged Lion & co can't look human, but the Lion might have been constrained both by Thistle's seals on it and the need to maintain the lie that it's just the innocent guardian deity of the Golden Country. If it could, I think it would try to look less monstrous, with Kabru.

Still, the point of the demons, I see, is that anyone can be tempted, anyone can be manipulated, because we are all full of buried desires that can be unearthed, and wanting things and having to defend them make you susceptible to manipulation.

Consider what Mithrun told Kabru: they keep the knowledge of demons secret because knowing the truth would not stop people from trying to have their wishes granted. After all, Mithrun was a Canary, but he fell for its temptation anyway. I've seen people characterize this as a sort of rock bottom decision, and maybe that's true, but I also pin it on his toxic inferiority/superiority complex. That's exactly the kind of thing that makes you think you're built different.

Would Marcille have stopped before unsealing the Winged Lion if Mithrun(/Kabru) had actually gotten to sit down with her for five minutes and explain why becoming dungeon lord would be a very bad idea? Maybe. Or maybe her desperation, and her own pride, would have made her decide that she knew better, that she'd be careful, that she'd go in with a plan and definitely get what she wanted with no dire consequences.

I think Kabru could be desperate enough to make a similar decision, even if his desires were antithetical to the demon. And the demons have an advantage over the aforementioned genie simile: their ability to eat desires.

If the Winged Lion were smart, it wouldn't let Kabru seal it away like Thistle. Given the opportunity, its best chance for dealing with Kabru would have been to immediately eat his desire to stop another Utaya.

I'm gonna plug this wonderful and tragic little one-shot someone wrote recently about the dungeon lord Kabru hypothetical: This place is not a place of honor.

#oh my god someone fucking shoot me with a tranq dart PLEASE #Dungeon Meshi spoilers #dungeonposting #musings with Dea #I hope someone writes a hypothetical party comp switch AU fic one day #like Laios's own AU of getting eaten in Falin's stead #and Falin going in to rescue him ... but what if Marcille came with her? and Toshiro? and they met Senshi? #or an idea I've mentioned before: Laios and Kabru would be an excellent tank/DPS combo #Kabru's party is really cohesive and good at fighting! they just don't have monster knowledge #if Laios were there to point Kabru's blades in the right direction he'd be absolutely lethal #anyway. hope this scratched that itch a bit! #sorry I didn't include more visual aids here I'm struggling today #Dea answers #Dea's anonymous friends

[thechekhov]

Dungeon Meshi - Quick Reacts (CHA 13: Boiled in Seawater)

What are we eating this time? 

Oh, I see. Chilchuck’s on the menu!

Don’t shun the poor boy, his ideas were good. 

Chilchuk: sees random box

Chilchuck: MIMIC SPOTTED.

oh there’s a sTORY HERE

I mean, he’s not WRONg but I definitely want them to eat a mimic.

oh no

NOOO POOR GUY

WHAT private life, Chilchuk? you’re literally in the dungeon for months on end. What do you do that ISN’T this?! 

I would DIE for sweepy Mawcille 

I don’t know why but the idea of this little coin just goin about its business is super fucking funny to me. I will 100% incorporate these guys into my dungeons now. 

run, little coin!

Chilchuck, were you trying to protect the coin from--

oof. don’t be so hard on yourself, bud. 

Marcille is still a sleepy little caterpillar and I love that for her. 

How did y’all not hear the gate slam down?

I’m also surprised they didn’t raid everything in this room. Like, there’s clearly bags and barrels and that cabinet. Did you look in them at all? How did Chilchuk stop them from opening the mimic box? Wouldn’t they be all over it?

I know foreshadowing when I see it. 

someone oiled those hinges REAL well

IT’S USING THE BOX AS A HOUSE CUUUUTE

lmfaoooooo Laios’ stupid trivia is gonna save your life

OOF that was close. Your scarf!

hold on, is the coin bug like... a baby mimic????

How loud is he yelling and why don’t they hear him?!

oooh, it’s crab stew for dinner!

Sleepy Marcille came through! She’s a good girl!!!!! 

awww only barely, honey. Only barely. 

Laios just petting it... 😂

This anger goes DEEP. Conquer your hatred by eating it, Chilchuck.

Stop re-traumatizing him, Senshi 🤣

What is dungeoneering if not bullying your companions relentlessly, day after day?

You really wanted to save that little coinbug....... Precious. 

I’m..................................................OKAY???????? I GUESS???????

........okay I kinda thought he was 19, but also, if he’s a Halfling Half-foot isn’t that still very much BABY? 

In comparison to Dwarves and Elves, I guess, yeah.

I KNEW IT. LAIOS WAS THE BABY OF THE GROUP ALL ALONG. AHAHA

#dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #chekhov reads dungeon meshi

[livelaughlaios]

Cannot add to that post as my reasoning got this is filled with spoilers and idk if OP wants them on their post but in my opinion Falin IS the narrative. She very directly EMBODIES the main themes of the story.

She start as a self-sacrifice. This is the type of heroism that Kabru and Toshiro represent and that Laios ends up rejecting, because its not sustainable. "We are more serious than you because we eat well and rest" - it sounds paradoxical, but we have seen how correct he is. They wouldn't have gotten this far had they been skipping meals and dragging themselves beyond the point of exhaustion.

Her first resuscitation is about following one's desires even beyond the limits of what is supposed to be legal or moral. She literally embodies the same wish that will lead Marcella to become dungeon master - having her friends survive the limits of their death.

Then, when she turns into a Chimera, she becomes the embodiment of her brother's desire - but not just that. She is fused with the creature that killed and ate her and that she ate in turn. She is the liminal space between monstrous and human, natural and unnatural. She's the same space the dungeon embodies. She's a formidable magic monster, created with dark ancient magic, but she is killed via her basic, mundane biological needs - food, air. And she's killed by her brother - which is a whole another thing, but here we hone in on the fact that he is the protagonist, and the one whose desire in this moment she embodies - and of course, as her brother, in many ways her mirror.

Then, she literally BECOMES the food, which is the main theme of the story. To eat is to live, to eat is the privilege of the living. She is the meal everyone shares, that brings everyone together. She died twice, and was rebuilt by the bones up by the love of those around her. She bears the marks of the love of Marcella and Laios and everyone else in the form of the dragon's parts left in her body after her final resurrection. The beast who ate her fed those around her, and in consuming her, people brought together by their love for her (directly or indirectly via their debt to Laios) saved her one last time.

Her final appearances in the extra material are about her learning to affirm her wishes. No longer self-sacrificial, she embodies the final moral of the story: to live, we must hunger, and accept we hunger. Consume and accept to be consumed. This is what life is all about.

#dungeon meshi spoilers #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #falin #meta #meowing to myself #this is more freeform poetry than actual meta but you know. i lobe her #im not disagreeing with tbe post more like. yes-anding

[fallloverfic]

@nnayomaise mentioned you on a post “i don't think enough people understand that, as a...”:

@fallloverfic i think he had to be suicidal before his dungeon, (not as much as he is in the current story ofc) but purely because he chose to become a dungeon lord knowing that it would eat all of his desires and he would wither away and die- and for him having a place to go, he could very easily have left his dungeon and gone back to the canaries (yes they would've killed him but they likely would've just revived him) which would be the right thing to do, he knows this

​(continued): "he knows the process of how they remove dungeon lords, he knows this is how canaries literally save the world from the dungeons, he probably thought a lot about backing out and essentially returning to reality but the goat manipulated him into staying then ate his desire to return"

I don't personally think anything about his decision to go with and stay with the mirror/goat indicates he was suicidal at that point, and you kind of disprove this yourself by indicating the goat - an outside force - was manipulating him into his decision(s). To each their own headcanon, obviously, and I like crunchy background for Mithrun, but here's at least why I don't think we have canon evidence for Mithrun being suicidal before he was abandoned by the demon.

In Bonus: Miscellaneous Monster Tales -6-, we learn just how dangerous magic mirrors are:

The manga notes this is specifically a moment of weakness, to an object specifically designed to steal his heart. Sometimes we all get caught on bad days. This was one of Mithrun's (he made the mistake of not ignoring the mirror). He was strong back then, but he wasn't invincible.

As the Adventurer's Bible notes about the Central Watchtower (his dungeon), "Since it hadn't had a lord for a long time, it was believed to be nearly collapsed. Mithrun was dispatched to investigate a nearby rash of disappearances and got taken in." (133). This was relatively routine/not a big deal, but it got him in a chance moment. The goat struck while the iron was hot. As the Adventurer's Bible explains, "Once, while under the impression that his older brother had stolen his beloved, Mithrun wished for a life where he hadn't joined the canaries. As a result, he fell under the spell of a demon" (74). This is framed largely as an accident/bad luck: we can't all be vigilant forever, after all. He even comments about these things to Kabru earlier, "You wished for those things... . . . You wished, so the dungeon provided. . . . Don't wish often." (p.157, Chapter 61: Roasted Walking Mushroom, Volume 9). Even casual wishes can have major consequences, and that desire attracts the demon (e.g., when Marcille is trying to get control, the demon acts on her subconscious desires for protection, and the only solution they have is to trap it in a book):

A moment of weakness against resolve to continue can perhaps imply he had depression he wasn't addressing, and was likely desperate and missing things he'd sacrificed, and was vulnerable to manipulation, but none of that really indicates specifically that he was suicidal. Knowing a bad thing could happen to you - even perhaps a form of death - when performing your job doesn't necessarily make you suicidal, though it might make you a bit reckless and/or foolhardy. Firefighters are not, by definition, suicidal. And there's really no evidence that Mithrun was in his right mind when he made his wish/went with the demon. As we see with Sissel, Marcille, and Laios, the demon is a master manipulator who knows how to overwhelm its targets, where even casual things you don't actively think about can lead to your undoing.

"and for him having a place to go, he could very easily have left his dungeon and gone back to the canaries (yes they would've killed him but they likely would've just revived him) which would be the right thing to do, he knows this"

How easy would it have been for him to leave? We can see what it took to get Sissel and Marcille to leave (Sissel ultimately fell to the demon, Marcille was a special case that involved large groups of people working together to find alternate solutions), and even what the demon used to keep Laios from enacting his plan when Laios becomes lord of the dungeon (chapter 88 is really great for showing just how skilled a manipulator the demon is; and even with fail-safes, Laios + Co couldn't get around this). And it's clearly indicated from at least Kabru's perception of Mithrun's backstory that Mithrun worked hard to stop anyone from coming in to get him while he was dungeon lord. It's easy to, academically, know how to solve a problem. It's another to make it work in the field. The only reason anyone was able to drag him out was seemingly because the demon "hadn't eaten enough to build up sufficient power" and "vanished" (p.185, chapter 62: Six Days, Volume 9). Mithrun had no apparent desire to leave, and was actively working to stay, likely in part because he was under the demon's spell. He even notes in the Complete Adventurer's Guide that the demon's love is compelling to the point of mental collapse. His knowing, logically, that leaving would have saved him, did nothing for him, because a lot was working against him, including powerful magic and his own human weakness for things he could have if he stayed. And him choosing to stay, despite likely somewhere in his head knowing what would happen if he didn't leave, again doesn't make him suicidal. I doubt he was thinking of the consequences all that much: he was too focused on the fantasy the demon made for him. When you're in the middle of a high, you typically aren't thinking of the comedown.

There's also another reason he probably wasn't thinking about it, that we see with Laios (and Marcille, and even I think with Sissel): a lot of us always think we'll be the one to get one over. We think we're smart enough or strong enough to succeed where others fail. Only Laios managed to succeed in part because his plan was so ridiculous and the demon's own overconfidence got in its way. In the Adventurer's Bible, Mithrun notes that before the dungeon, he "looked down on everyone." (76). He was arrogant. I imagine that part of why he probably wouldn't have given up had he thought about his potential fate was that he thought he'd succeed in surviving. His story is very much one of hubris (e.g., his thinking for why the demon took away his eye and ear ends). In the Adventurer's Bible, we see his confidence when he approaches Milsiril to talk to her (86), and we see how he is in combat. He was confident, and self-avowedly arrogant. That's a dangerous mix.

There is some vagueness for how other dungeon lords who weren't Mithrun, Marcille, Sissel, and Laios got out of their situations: we know there are a number, because we see them in the Complete Adventurer's Bible during the group chat scene set up by Pattadol. If it's explained somewhere how they were rescued/removed, and if for some reason Mithrun knew that could be him, too, but he chose not to for specific suicidal reasons, I have no idea. cartchytuns in the notes noted that they were probably freed when Laios got rid of the demon at the end of the story, since the demon in every dungeon was all the same demon, and I think that makes a lot of sense! If this is what happened, that means even fewer dungeon lords left the dungeon of their own volition/abilities, and that decreases the likelihood that Mithrun was able to, and increases the validity that he just actively chose not to.

Mithrun was jealous, angry, arrogant, and had seemingly some form of imposter's syndrome, possibly due to being an illegitimate son when his legitimate brother was someone he viewed as inferior, but his supposed superiority didn't save him from getting sent to the Canaries, which he is bitter about. He perhaps sometimes wished at least somewhat for things he didn't and perhaps couldn't have. As he notes in the Adventurer's Bible, "And instead of [his brother], my parents sent me to the Canaries. I couldn't forgive any of that." (76). He was also good at hiding/masking all of this and pretending to be light-hearted/have no problems and "perfect" (in Milsiril's words). He was very clearly deeply unhappy and hiding it. His already being suicidal is a neat headcanon! And good luck with it/any fics! The fun part of the story's ambiguity is how much we don't know and how fanworks can fill in those gaps! But as of this moment, I really don't see canon evidence for him being suicidal before he was abandoned by the demon.

#nnayomaise #fallfthoughts #mithrun #delicious in dungeon #suicidality #depression #mental health problems #delicious in dungeon manga spoilers #dunmeshi manga spoilers #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #suicide mention

[shisurus]

anyway i can't stop thinking about how 3 out of the 4 dungeon lords we get to know during the manga have siblings that deeply influenced them becoming dungeon lords. these are very different relationships but in the end all of them found comfort in their sibling, and it highlights just how very lonely marcille is compared to everyone else. i bet my ass she's jealous of that too, that she wanted to have a sibling as well... it would've literally made her whole life and experience so different. mithrun's older brother was his main caretaker and stepped up for him when no one else would, thistle could only know peace once he saw delgal again and laios saving falin was the best and most important thing he ever did in his life. they spent lifetimes together and relied on each other until the very end, that one bond that nothing could truly sever no matter how much they tried to themselves.

but marcille will have to experience that cycle of being left all alone for eternity, never having that one person to accompany her on her journey from beginning to end, always mourning by herself because no one else will remember them. her memories are hers alone and at some point, they will be all that's left of the people she loves, until she's gone too.

#dungeon meshi #marcille donato

[monstertidbits]

thoughts about chilchuck pls. i hope your day is going well

first tysm nonnie i hope the same for you :) and well im always thinkin abt chilchuck. actually earlier this week i was thinking abt how capable and skilled he is? he's incredibly smart, speaks several languages, is great at using a bow (yes he always acknowledges himself not standing a chance in close combat so he made sure to at least develop some long range combat skills), is quite literally the best at his area of expertise on the island AND the leader of the half-foot guild... and i'm sure he has many other random skills he picked up along the way. like it's so easy to forget since they are all such goofy dumbasses, but laios' party is filled with exceptional people.

and i was thinking about how chilchuck criticizing laios' leadership skills isn't him just being condescending, but talking from his own personal experience as a leader among his people. and then i was thinking that it's probably very unlikely for a half-foot to lead their own party as the other races don't seem to take them seriously enough. and chil is no less capable than any other party leader in this dungeon, he just knows exactly the kind of prejudice these people hold against his kind and he personally ain't all that interested in taking responsibility of parties filled with self serving pricks. so he prefers to work quietly and get his fair share, and take care of the other half-foots so they don't experience the hardships he went through in this place solely for the fact he was young and didn't realize that the world around him pretty much works against him (remember that time he was used as bait for succubus hunting?). and yeah he's not ashamed to also get proper profit for his hard work and at this point he really doesn't care about people disapproving of his ways, it's just annoying af when those people prefer falling into stereotypes and appeasing the other races or are no less hungry for money and power than anyone else. and at the end of the day he kept working and doing all of this mostly for the sake of others and specifically laios' party, as he could've retired years ago. even mickbell who held a grudge against him for basically running a normal business found out he is a decent man (who also saved his life but whatever). and i can go on talking about how him staying by laios' side and trusting him the way he does after everything he went through is because laios showed him time and time again that he is different and actually makes chil a priority as his colleague and friend and doesn't treat him as a mere tool to achieve his goals, but this is getting too long already. anyways what i'm tryna say is little guy is quite cool actually i love him to death

#thank u again nonnie🥹💕 #asks #anon #dungeon meshi