#hotd discourse

[dreamfyre-beautiful]

Problems I have with HOTD so far:

• not letting Alicent be actually evil. Y’all already hate her for being a GOOD person, I can’t imagine how y’all would handle an actually evil queen. I wish she killed Viserys and made Aegon heir Herself!

• no perspective of small folk, closest we have is Criston who is still more well off then 90% of king’s landing. In GOT we got small folks perspectives on their rulers a lot and I hope we get that soon.

• taking away Helaena’s autonomy. Making her the cute autistic girl who does no wrong is such a bastardization of her that it’s laughable.

• casting with specifically Laena. Do not get me wrong, the actresses are gorgeous and Amazingly talented, but because they aged her up during Rhae’s wedding it makes her look even older than Rhae even tho they have at least a 3 year age gap.

• “and now they see you as you are” WHAT? They see a woman drop all decorum for her child? She their queen willing to personally handle situations? Like I genuinely do not know what this is suppose to mean.

• bulldozing the Velaryon family. Rhaenys does nothing when both her children die to the hands of the targs, no one does anything when Vaemon dies, even when Rhae tries to make Luke the lord of the tides no one brings up that his fiancee should be the true lord not him.

• the new promo saying “[team black] acts more like a family” maybe my family is weird but we don’t fuck each other or marry each other at all

• only truely giving team black’s dragon’s personality. We know Vhagar’s SLIGHTLY but Dreamfyre and Sunfyre are nothing right now

• no Alicent birth scene. We get multiple traumatizing birth scenes but the woman who was a mother of 3 before 20 doesn’t get one? Ok

Will add more as I think of them

#house of the dragon #hotd #game of thrones #alicent hightower #got #pro team green #hotd discourse #anti targaryen #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #house of the dragon season 2 #houseofthedragonedit #house hightower #house targaryen #house stark #aegon ii targaryen #helaena the dreamer #aemond one eye #aemond targaryen #hotd aemond #pro criston cole #ser criston

[sunnysideaeggs]

I finally found out why the Laena/Daemon match made me so uncomfortable 😵‍💫

Are you really going to tell me that a little girl went from this:

To this:

In three years? 🧐🧐🧐

It makes me so upset that hotd makers really casted another actress for Laena making a 16 yo effectively look ‘elder’ and ‘grown up’ and ‘seeking’ Daemon. They’re actively feeding stereotypes about girls of color growing up faster, wanting men’s attention earlier or being ‘more developed’ than their white counterparts. Alicent and Rhaenyra, two characters who are in universe older than Laena, kept their actress after the time lapse.

Laena Velaryon’s age and appearance seems to fluctuate however it’s more convenient for Targaryen men. She’s just a cute kid when Viserys is searching for a wife, making Alicent the ‘more sensible’ choice. She’s a beautiful young woman when Daemon needs to get away from Rhaenyra for a bit. She’s a middle aged woman who’s getting boring when he needs to come back.

Also, why did they change the actress (again!) after the time lapse? Only 12 years passed, at most. And teen!Laena is 16.

Are you really going to tell me she looks 28? Don’t get me wrong, Nanna Blondell is beautiful, but she, as she should, looks her age (37). Laena didn’t need another actress for just an episode, showcase her youth and the tragedy of being a placeholder in Daemon’s life (who, btw, didn’t age a day. I’m starting to think he keeps himself youthful by feeding on little girls.)

Alas, it really bothers me. As a young woman of color, it always pisses me off whenever people find excuses to sexualize woc and especially prey on young girls. It’s even worse when big entertainment companies feed into it.

#sunny cooks 🍳🍷 #laena velaryon #hotd discourse #anti daemon targaryen #anti viserys i targaryen #didn’t talk much about him but like; some sprinkles #anti hotd

[mhsdatgo]

By far, I think the "prophecy" is the greatest bullshit that has been adapted in HBO's House of the Dragon. It really makes no sense whatsoever.

Especially in the way it was used in ep.9. Basically the only reason for Alicent to start defending her children, as if she already didn't have enough reasons to believe that they would be at risk as long as she'd let Rhaenyra do what she pleased for much longer.

Rhaenyra watched Alicent's son in the only eye he had left since her child sliced it out, she watched as he was stitched up, she watched how Alicent forgot the very concept of decorum out of the rage and desperation that gripped her. Yet she demanded that Aemond be tortured for speaking the truth.

"And now you take my son's eye, and to even that, you feel entitled."

This is Alicent tipping over the edge. If it were me, Rhaenyra would've been lucky to walk out of that room alive.

She's not talking crap here. Rhaenyra really does not give a shit. She presses on, she accuses her of hiding beneath a mask that has now "fallen." How can anyone look at this scene, hear this line, and have the point of Alicent's words completely fly over their head? How can anyone think this woman was going for Rhaenyra out of jealousy?

Did she really need a misunderstood prophecy to put Aegon on the throne? Many like to see this from his point of view, which is being forced onto a position he does not want. Which is right in that case. But Alicent should've done it to keep her family alive and not for a dying man's last words. After Driftmark, she really shouldn't have needed any more reasons.

#hotd #hotd discourse #house of the dragon #team green #alicent hightower #pro alicent hightower #anti rhaenyra targaryen

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

It might come as quite a shock to those who think that having a woman on the throne would mean anything for women's liberation in Westeros, but trickle down feminism is not a thing. Liberation cannot start at the top, it is a movement that must start from the bottom up, otherwise the privileged class simply creates more vectors for oppression. Power and privilege are inherently self-protecting, and a those in power, yes, including women, will tear down the less privileged before sacrificing even a tiny scrap of their own privilege or power. This is one of the main themes of ASOIAF and yet this fandom has bought into the myth of the liberating queen so wholeheartedly that people actually believe that allowing a tyrant to take the throne, so long as she's a woman tyrant, is praxis. Rhaenyra is not a liberator of women or anyone else, in fact she damages the cause of liberation much more than she helps it. Control over the dragons was bought and paid for with the blood of countless slaves, and Rhaenyra wields the tools of the oppressor expertly, threatening all who challenge her with fire and blood, a threat she delivers on before she ever crowns herself queen. Her very claim comes from the belief that the one person in charge should wield absolute power and ruthlessly defend that power with the might of dragons.

Remember who kills more of the living dragons in Fire and Blood than any one Targaryen. Set aside the silly logistics of the storming of the Dragonpit, and think about the bravery it would take to face down a dragon armed with only a pitchfork and conviction. That is where liberation begins, from the people standing in front of the dragons, not those sitting atop them.

#fire and blood #hotd discourse #anti targaryen #anti targ stans #team smallfolk

[witheredoffherwitch]

It's been over a year..... and these folks are still crying over 10-year-old Aemond "stealing" VHAGAR, a literal nuke the size of Mt. Everest, and throwing shade at the twins at their mother's funeral? Meanwhile, Rhaenyra's grown-ass is out here riding the twins' father on the very night they laid their mother to rest. Come on! y'all are not serious 😭😭

#“lucerys should have taken both of his eyes” #“rhaenyra should have burnt them all” #and then whine when their beloved characters meet their inevitable fate lol #fr can we all pleaseeee move the fuck on? 😭 #it's been 84 years #baela and rhaena #aemond one eye #aemond targaryen #pro team green #alicent hightower #hotd discourse

[ride-thedragon]

Nettles, Rhaenyra, Laena, Mysaria, and the Prize that is DAEMON TARGARYEN

Now, I'm not going to sit here and police shipping. I'm also not going to act as though better writers and thinkers long before me haven't talked about the same phenomenon of centring men in women's narratives as a way to value the women. However, as a person in this fandom, I do want to apply this thought to the shipping discourse of Daemon Targaryen because it has become exhausted.

We treat this man as though he's the prize to gain when these women are in relationships with him. In the sense that when Daemon picks these women to have a relationship with they gain a value and devalue the women he leaves behind. We see this with him going:

from Rhea and Mysaria to Laena.

He finally has a Valyrian bride who matches his spirit and can give him Valyrian children. They get along and are of equal standing.

From Laena to Rhaenyra.

He moves on, finds real happiness, finds his true family, becomes the Targaryen he was destined to be with his Targaryen bride at his side, and their Targaryen children with his real family

From Rhaenyra to Mysaria .

Rhaenyra became mournful and wasn't as she once was. Him and Mysaria just have this connection, and Rhaenyra approves.

From Rhaenyra and Mysaria to Nettles.

Daemon finally found someone he could look past himself for. The singers say they end up together. He does all of this and leaves the Rhaenyra to her death because Nettles left. He's finally ready to settle down and grow old. She saved him.

All of this is an overgeneralised hyperbole of conversations I've seen, but they always centre Daemon choosing these women to be in a relationship with as their biggest accomplishment in the narrative. Him at their side is the biggest deal, and when he leaves them, they are discarded and replaced by his new love interest.

The issue with this

Prioritising a man, this man, as the main factor in these relationships, discredit the women who exist outside of him and make it seem as though he's the only thing that adds value to them. The language being used, in short, dismisses their personhood and equates them to something he can own, discard and replace at whim, and he alone adds value to them. It's icky language especially with his game card.

Lady Rhea: wasn't even her choice. She hated him and refused to give him an heir to inherit Runestone. In the show, she makes sure he returns and kills her by insulting his sexual prowess.

Mysaria: is complicit and involved in his worst action but always ensures she pulls herself up with it. Being his courtesan made her wealthy, almost made her his wife. Then she's complicit in blood and cheese and gets herself promoted to the Lady of Whispers to the Queen, eventually putting an end to him.

Laena: CLAIMED THE LARGEST DRAGON IN THE WORLD AS A TEEN. Is quite literally the mother of the girls that survived the Dance. Her blood inherits her house's seat.

Rhaenyra: Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Had men avenge her death, and her son sat on the iron throne after her.

Nettles: created the religion that forged the most dangerous tribe in the Vale of Arryn. Claimed a wild dragon and committed alleged treason and escaped.

I'm not saying Daemon isn't important. I'm not saying he doesn't play a part. I'm saying that when we have these conversations about him and these women and the progression of his relationships with them, I hope we can reach a place where the idea that he leaves them isn't a jab or joke against one woman for the sake of the one he chooses. It's getting strange.

Women don't lose value because of a man. Ever.

This also applies to Baela and her adaptation in the show. She isn't uninteresting because she isn't a tomboy or like Daemon. They make her a political girl in the show and like Laena. That's not a loss. She's modelled after Rhaenys as well. She's just reflective of the women in her life. I'm sure she'll have a relationship to Daemon as well, but she's the Ward of Driftmark. That's quite interesting. We also have tomboys like Alysanne and Sabitha, so we aren't in a deficit by any means.

#hotd #house of the dragon #nettles #nettles asoiaf #netty #rhaenrya targaryen #queen rhaenyra #laena velaryon #lady laena #rhea royce #lady rhea royce #mysaria #lady of whispers #hotd discourse #hotd meta #anti hotd fandom #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #anti daemon Targaryen being valued more than he should be #daemon should pay for his sins #baela targaryen #hotd baela

[blackcat419]

Pros and Antis in HotD and aSoIaF Fandom: the breakdown around grey storytelling

I think I know why TB people struggle so much for understanding why TG is liked by people and it’s because fandom discourse has been so rotted away by “pro shippers” and “anti shippers” discourse that we’ve entered into a puritanical view of consuming media.

They see the media you consume as a direct reflection of the type of person you are and thus the characters you like must be similar to who you are as a person.

To a certain extent I get it, looking at a broad portfolio of media consumption can reveal a bit about a person. For example, I consume a lot of horror media. You can discern that I like being scared and the adrenaline that comes from it. But that’s only in a safe controlled situation where I can turn off the tv or monitor when it gets too much. I don’t like haunted houses, being alone at night, or even the dark.

Media is a safe place to explore different sides of humanity in a controlled setting where the only thing at risk is our own enjoyment. People can find that they like things in media that they wouldn’t like in real life. But this distinction is lost on a lot of fandom puritans. To them, media consumption is a political act. You reaffirm that you are a “good person” by watching the “good shows” and rooting for the “good guys”. To look upon a morally complex character or even the villain with interest and sympathy is thus to condone and support every action that character will be written to take.

But this idea of assuming moral righteousness from the characters you support in media because even harder to understand and justify when applied to stories like HotD and aSoIaF where every character possesses both good and evil. So how does a puritan fan reaffirm their belief that they are morally good in a series such as these? The fan will assign the idea oh moral correctness and superiority to the characters they like. Any bad, morally questionable, or straight up evil act the character commits will be justified as righteous no matter how the story frames those actions to the audience. The same is applied to characters these fans do not like. Every bad, morally questionable, or evil action is amplified to become the main character trait while any good, just, or morally righteous act is off written as either an evil act in disguise or any good to come out of the act should be attributed to another character. Any harm committed again the character is then down played as not that bad or actually deserved.

In HotD and aSoIaF, this fandom Puritanism mainly affects female characters.

In aSoIaF, we have characters such as Dany and Arya being framed as the morally righteous and just while characters such as Catelyn and Sansa are painted as villains. Weirdly this does not apply to actual villainous female characters likes Cersei. This could be because the books and show are very clear that her actions are evil and cruel, puritan fans do not feel insecure liking her as they feel secure that the story and thus other fans know she is a bad person and won’t assume liking her means viewing her as a good person. Characters such as Margery Tyrell and Arianne Martell are viewed with more complexity than other female characters but I bet once they come into conflict with beloved female characters, they will be viewed as villainous.

In HotD we see the same thing happening. Puritan fans see Rhaenyra as the perfect hero with any negative action being just or not her fault while Alicent is painted as more evil than the step mother from Cinderella who, despite all evidence to the contrary, wanted to be queen and this deserves everything that she gets.

This is why so many people have to explain to puritan fans that liking characters like Sansa, Catelyn, Alicent, Aegon, or Aemond does not make one bastardphobic, a rape apologist, or anti feminist. I also think it explains why these fans can’t except that their favorite characters have done wrong and hurt people. They can’t accept criticism or critique of their favorite character because to them it’s not another person’s reading of a fictional character, it’s someone judging them on their morals.

Puritanical fans interlock their identity and sense of self with the characters they like and struggle to separate criticism of those characters as criticism of themselves as a person.

#house of the dragon #hotd #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #hotd discussion #asoiaf discussion #hotd discourse #asoiaf discourse #Puritanism in fandom #puritanical fans

[aegonette]

It's funny how when you point out that basically exiling your gay husband and his lover from their home might not be the girlboss ally behaviour some claim it is, it's always "well what do you expect it's a homophobic patriarchal system, Rhaenyra can't just magically change that". But when ALICENT is victim to that same system and tries her best to navigate it, she's a conservative tradwife cunt? You guys are not serious people ...

#hotd discourse #alicent #rhaenyra #txt.me

[aegonslawyer]

regarding valeskafics.

It has taken me a few days to collect my thoughts regarding Bel and her little clique of toxicity.

I was…shocked. I considered myself a friend of Bel, though I never interacted with her or the others involved on discord, my ‘friendship’ remained on tumblr.

I deleted my fics a few months ago due to hateful anons, I cannot help now but to think they were the result of Bel and her friends as they have been exposed for their hatred towards others within the House of The Dragon community. Obviously, I do not have proof of this so I won’t say it was them for certain.

Now, while I was not personally targeted in the shared screenshots, people I am friends, mutuals with and follow have been. I am deeply disturbed by the bitterness, the doxxing, the downright disgusting behaviour that has been shown.

I have defended Bel in the past, she convinced me that everyone who attempted to confront her was in the wrong. I apologise for all the concerns I ignored about her. I have deleted every post and ask from her on this blog.

I hope all of those who have been personally affected and traumatised by her and her friend’s actions is safe, absolutely no one deserves this.

aegonslawyer always has been and always will be a safe space.

#🎤 • jay #valeskafics #house of the dragon #hotd discourse

[dreamfyre-beautiful]

Rhaenyra is more conservative soccer mom then Alicent EVER WAS.

The woman who says her baby boys are perfect no matter what versus the one that openly struggles with her relationship with her kids? The woman who actively punishes people around her for telling the TRUTH?

I’m so tired of Alicent being called a conservative simply because she’s religious.

#house of the dragon #hotd #game of thrones #alicent hightower #pro team green #got #anti rhaenyra targaryen #hotd discourse #anti targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #pro alicent hightower #team alicent #team green

[greenqueenhightower]

Rhaenyra x Alicent Power Struggle--Thoughts:

Rhaenyra would have done everything to get out of a situation where she would be forced to do something she didn’t want to do (like having sex with an old man, also her friend’s father) but see, this is where the difference between Rhaenyra and Alicent lies, because Rhae was brought up to be stronger and ofc her personality itself is different and she knows her self worth. Alicent sadly doesn’t know her self-worth. She’s been living as a foreigner away from her culture and her home and her only connection to the palace world is Rhaenyra. Growing up, (and this is so obvious in the first episodes) Rhaenyra is Alicent’s whole world. Her whole life revolves around Rhaenyra (and that’s the main reason I ship Rhaenicent lol). Whereas Rhaenyra’s world is much more vast, and Alicent plays only a small part in it. Rhaenyra’s world is the dragons, the Targaryen dynasty, speaking Valyrian, taking part in royal duties etc.

So ofc Alicent is much more easily manipulated and she feels way more betrayed when they become distant because her whole world has crumbled and fallen apart. Before the green dress moment and while she is being pressured by Otto to visit Viserys, you can tell she is totally alone and needs to talk to someone (her best friend) about it but she can’t. And yet, Rhae, her bff, doesn’t seem to notice what she’s going through and that hurts even more. So Rhae feels betrayed because Alicent never told her about what she was doing and because she thinks that Alicent instigated this relationship with her father, and Alicent feels betrayed because her friend immediately cut her out of her life without giving her the benefit of the doubt, or showing her that she wanted to listen to her and know what she was going through. So it’s all a misunderstanding really, which is why the dance of the dragons is so tragic. It could all have been avoided had the friends made peace with one another.

As for when she called baby Joffrey to her, Alicent was testing and pushing the boundaries in my opinion, the same way that Rhae has been testing and pushing the boundaries by having three illegitimate children. Alicent didn’t mean any harm, but it was a power move from her side, telling Rhae that “you know what? I’m the queen ffs and I can demand whatever I want, the same way you sleep around and have three illegitimate kids and you demand that we blind ourselves to the truth.” It’s basically a power struggle, a tug of war between the two to show one another the level of influence they have. Alicent didn’t have vile intentions. It was all to send a message to Rhae that first of all, she’s not dumb, and second of all, that she can play the game of power (or thrones if need be) equally well.

#rhaenyra targaryen #alicent hightower #rhaenicent #house of the dragon #hotd #alicent #the green queen #rhaenyra #the black queen #asoiaf #hotd thoughts #hotd meta #hotd analysis #hotd discussion #hotd discourse #a song of ice and fire #greenqueenrants #greenqueenhightower #rhaenicent thoughts #hotd rant #hotd episode 6 #hotd episode 2 #team green #team black

[mhsdatgo]

Hotd writers choosing to adapt Mushroom's records out of everything they had in hand is the worst decision they could've ever come up with btw.

It's been stated time and time again that while F&B is purely built on records and gossip and morphed retelling of events out of bias and propaganda, Mushroom is the LEAST reliable of all the sources. He's a fool at Rhaenyra's court, his job is make people gasp and laugh, not retell historical events.

We're talking about the same guy who said that he had a penis large enough to match the size of his head, mind you. Also, he's obsessed with little girls giving BJs to Targaryen men somewhere in Flea Bottom. It's happened twice according to him.

The writers' reasoning for this choice is basically that F&B was written by Maesters and Septons, who were all greedy men, apart from being Green supporters. So anything they say is false, anything they say is written with sexist intent. Writer's intention was to do the exact opposite.

Then tell me, for the love of God, tell me, why is every woman apart from Rhaenyra, who is clearly whitewashed and I can go into heavy detail about that, basically shunned?

The Maesters claim Alicent left Viserys' body to rot and swell for days preparing and LEADING Rhaenyra's usurpation. She's the leader of the Greens, she and she alone. Not Otto. The Green Council answers only to her orders, they are loyal to HER.

I've seen people argue that since Alicent is what Maesters view as an "ideal" woman, then they would try anything to paint her in the best light possible. While I agree that this may be true, I don't think this is the case. In history books, even in real life, women are rarely painted as leaders or important figures.

For Queen Alicent to be written as THE face of the Greens, you know this mama wasn't playing around.

Now, how is this:

In ANY WAY, even comparable to THIS?:

At the end of ep.8 and quite literally the entirety of ep.9, Alicent is shown as a lost woman who doesn't even seem to know what she's doing, pushed by Viserys' last words about prophecy rather than SHEER DESIRE to get her hands dirty for her children's safety (which by the way will always be superior imo). The Green Council conspires behind her back, and on top of it all, she's yelled at by one of her own men and is made to take it like a beaten dog.

Moreover, we had Helaena's ROAST (yes it was a roast, my Queen inherited cunty lines from her cunty mother) against Aegon and her coronation, the latter being addressed as something quite wholesome, if you ask me. Alicent places her own crown upon her daughter's head and calls her "my Queen" after kissing her cheeks and kneeling. Afterwards, her and Alicent are literally written to be the only ones who could get through Aegon II's thick skull when he wanted to start the war right then and there as a result of Rhaenyra crowning herself on Dragonstone.

You hear me??? Aegon sat down and fucking listened to the two women in his life. Not the Council, them. These two were dogwalking him, the KING, on the daily, how is that sexist writing on the Maesters' part????

Yet these things are nowhere to be seen in Ryan Condal and Sara Hess' "progressive" show. We got beaten dog Alicent and Helaena being nothing but a walking spoiler machine other than yet another instrument to paint Aegon as the big bad wolf and usurper. Not a single scene of them counseling Aegon.

Baela and Rhaena have nearly no lines or scenes that don't show them in the presence of the Strongs. They are seemingly okay with anything Rhae throws their way because it's Rhae. The one and only scene about Baela openly speaking to her grandma about her wish to fight for Rhaenyra was deleted.

Meanwhile, Rhaenyra is stripped of her rage and thirst for vengeance, and instead made to negotiate for peace while in the books she was the one pushing to go to war first.

Can you tell me, again, how the fanfiction that is Hotd supposed to prove that they want to be "progressive" in contrast to the Maesters' "sexist" work, when literally all they do is whitewash Rhaenyra and sideline any woman who isn't her?

#anti hotd #team green #alicent hightower #helaena targaryen #queen helaena #hotd discourse #asoiaf discourse #queen alicent

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

"If it feels like Alicent needs Rheanyra to suffer in order for her life to have meaning."

https://www.reddit.com/r/HouseOfTheDragon/s/6bMp4SmUpH

What's your opinion on this post?

I think the summary, "it feels like Alicent needs Rhaenyra to suffer in order for her life to have meaning" is kind of a misrepresentation of Olivia Cooke's quote cited in that reddit thread.

"Rhaenyra can just get away with anything, and it's so fine. The king turns a complete blind eye, whereas Alicent has always had to walk this tightrope for her whole entire life," Cooke explains. "Just the injustice of it that she feels, until things happen and she realizes that none of it f---ing matters. She looks around her family, and they're all f---ed up. She's like, 'I've been so perfect all my life. I haven't taken a step wrong, and it doesn't f---ing matter.' I think what we see in her evolution is this complete existential crisis."

“(rhaenyra) is the mother that alicent wishes she could be. i don't think there's empathy there. i think it is just another cause for alicent’s resentment, because it’s something she's doing better than alicent ever could.”

Alicent doesn't need Rhaenyra to suffer in order for her life to have meaning, what she needs is justice. She is married to the king and has given him three sons and a daughter, and she's treated no better than a mistress. Ironically, Alicent could have been a royal paramour, had royal bastards, and they would probably be safer as bastards than they are as trueborn children. It's blindingly unfair, and no one in Alicent's life recognizes that. Even her father cannot really acknowledge that Alicent personally has been done wrong because he had a hand in the doing.

I think what's left unsaid in the second part of that quote is why Rhaenyra is the mother Alicent wishes she could be. It's not because Rhaenyra is inherently a more loving, caring person. We see young Alicent is a very warm girl, with a lot of empathy for others, but by the time we catch up with her as an adult, she's been worn down by her circumstances. Even setting aside the fact that Alicent's children are not the product of a loving union like Rhaenyra's were, Alicent can't be this perfect caring, supportive mother when she is fighting for her children's lives. She can't let down her guard, nor can she afford to be too soft, or allow herself to become too attached, because her children are not simply her children, they're royal children who will be at the center of a succession crisis whether they like it or not. And unlike Rhaenyra, who has this incredible power of denial, Alicent has this anxious, hyper-vigilant personality and she can't just pretend her children won't one day be a threat to Rhaenyra''s claim. This is incredibly detrimental to Alicent's ability to effectively parent them!

And so of course Alicent resents the fact that Rhaenyra can just pretend everything is fine, that she can offer her kids this seemingly unconditional love and support, that she can ignore the elephant in the room when Alicent herself cannot ignore it. And the thing is, not only does Rhaenyra's refusal to acknowledge the problem put Alicent's kids in even more danger, it's not actually great for Rhaenyra's kids either. Just look at Jace, he's flying off the handle every time someone whispers the word bastard and already someone has lost an eye because of it. That kid harbors some deep insecurities, and his mother's absolute refusal to acknowledge his parentage, even privately, puts Jace in a really weird position. How can he prepare himself for his future as king, how can he learn how to face the whispers and the accusations, when his mother won't even utter the word? Alicent doesn't really have the ability at this point to see the flaws in Rhaenyra's parenting, but they're there.

So no, it's not that she wants Rhaenyra to suffer, she wants Rhaenyra to acknowledge that she understands the realities they're facing due to Viserys' decisions. Does Alicent want to feel like her own suffering matters? Of course! No one wants to feel like they wasted their life, that their sacrifices are unacknowledged and unappreciated. Look at how far Rhaenyra's "thank you and I'm sorry" went at the family dinner. Being gaslit is a maddening experience-- there's a reason why it's an abuse tactic-- and being gaslit over a period of years about something with life or death consequences would turn anyone bitter and resentful. But Rhaenyra's suffering in and of itself won't right the wrongs done to Alicent, and on some level Alicent has always been aware of that.

#asks #hotd discourse #alicent hightower #team green #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti team black

[witheredoffherwitch]

Targaryens: Infamous End Inevitable.

This entire discourse on Jaehaera is so laughably absurd. I love my Green characters, but I couldn't care less what the show does with Jaehaera's arc. Team Black loves to remind everyone that Rhaenyra's lineage survived while Team Green's perished. That is true... BUT not only did her sons separate themselves from their mother's legacy to keep the Lords happy, but they did nothing to elevate her name in any way after their supposed 'win'. Their mother's 'usurper' was perceived as the legitimate ruler while she was branded a traitor. Rhaenyra's legacy was so badly tarnished that even after her lineage lived on, no Targaryen descendent carried her name, despite the House's tendency of reusing names.

For me, the Dance tells the story of how House Targaryen ruined itself. They put their most powerful assets (Dragons) all in at once... only to become extinct in just over a century, while the other noble houses had been ruling Westeros for millennia. It doesn't matter whose line survives - if this doesn't make sense to you, then you are not intelligent enough to engage with any form of media. I'm content with the way things ended because ultimately, no one is triumphant.

Even if Jaehaera lives, her line still loses since it was Viserys II's line that eventually took over. No matter who ends up reigning, HOUSE TARGARYEN WILL BE DEAD! The last survivor of the house (barring Jon Snow) will make sure its legacy would be one of infamy. It will linger in Westeros like the Mussolini's monument, forever infamous.

Even if the books attempt to alter Dany's storyline, it would be idiotic to expect a Targaryen restoration. To those who foolishly believe that the books will be rewritten and the Targaryens will once again sit on the Iron Throne, then I've got a bridge in Pyongyang I'm looking to unload.

#jaehaera targaryen #aegon ii targaryen #team green #hotd discourse #hotd fandom #the dance of the dragons #aegon iii targaryen #aegon iii x jaehaera #alicent hightower #otto hightower #house hightower #helaena taragryen #aemond targaryen #fandom discourse #hotd discussion #asoiaf analysis #house targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #jon snow #anti daenerys targaryen #team black #daemon targeryan #viserys iii targaryen #hotd spoilers #hotd #daeron targaryen #house of the dragon

[anxiouspotatorants]

Team greens this and team blacks that I’m team dismantle the monarchy and feudal system and let those girls go on their dragonback roadtrip before they get old enough to tear at each other’s throats

#this is a joke btw #not the dismantle monarchy thing #because down with the iron throne #but erasing the tragedy #because I am HERE for this tragic mess to unfold #house of the dragon #hotd discourse #hotd spoilers #the potato rants #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenyra x alicent #asoiaf

[emilykaldwen]

A script direction would not say ‘hope flashes across the gaze’. That’s incredibly narrative and does not track with the usual script direction that’s been given (for example the Daemon toast).

The OP of these new “script drafts” are improperly formatting and very clearly making things up for… some weird need to put their own interpretation out there. @darksvster has been incredibly unbiased and upfront of the work they’ve posted as a way to share a resource and insight into the writing process.

@lemonhemlock also had a great post this morning about how people are freaking out at feeling like ‘they’ve been proven wrong’ and the new blog posting fakes just illustrates that. I encourage you to check it out.

Please be mindful everyone. I have no personal connection with darksvster, this is not me standing up for a friend, but it is me lending my small voice to some ridiculous fandom BS that really needs to stop like goddamn y’all. Chill. I’m begging. Can’t we be normal for five minutes?

#HotD tag #HotD discourse #literally the need to be popular is tearing this website apart stg