What has been one of the most challenging things that you have experienced, or are currently experiencing?
“The most challenging experience I’m having right now is getting back into the world. Finding myself and place that I’ve lost over my 14 years of addiction. I think I’ve found myself, but I think that is a struggle for a lot of people in the world. Not necessarily somebody who struggles with addiction, but finding who they are as a person, and their being, and their purpose. I’m finding that. Or I think I’ve found that, but I don’t know if anybody finds that throughout their whole life. I’m lucky to be able to have that opportunity—a second chance at life in this recovery road.”
Tell me about the years of addiction, and what maybe contributed to the addiction.
“Well, in high school, not choosing the best group of friends. My father moved away when I was very young. No fault of his own. He had to go to find work in other states, which I now understand as an adult, but at the time I think I was suppressing that loss of him, having to move. He had no choice, he had to.
“For a group of friends, divorce is hard on children. Remarriage is also hard on children. I was very fortunate to have a great stepfather. But that was also challenging. I also experienced a lot of bullying my junior year at Southington High. That, in turn, led me to switch high schools, from Southington High to New Britain High. Although I made it out of there, it was really some hard times for me. I just kept self-medicating.
“Eventually, one high wasn’t as good as the first. I just kept going for that ultimate high, until eventually it caused me to overdose twice.”
Tell me about the times you overdosed. What was that experience like?
“In my first experience I was experimenting with drugs, and I did not know a good mixture. The reality is I was trying to get the ultimate high by mixing pills with antidepressants. It caused a bad overdose and ultimately led to my mother coming in and finding me unresponsive, and an ambulance ride with two vials of Narcan that ended up bringing me back to life. That experience as a whole, being brought in on a stretcher and seeing my family to the right, seeing the ER to the left, seeing the facial expressions on my family members, is something I will never get out of my head. I’ve learned to cope with it.
“Apparently, it wasn’t enough of a wake-up call for me in 2004. My second overdose was in 2009/2010. That experience alone ended up putting me in critical care. All of my bodily fluids had let go. It was a very awakening experience for me. Unfortunately, that wasn’t the end of my addiction. The second time wasn’t either. But the second time, my nephew had a play that night and I lay there in the hospital bed thinking, now my addiction is not enabling me to be in my nephews’ lives, which I was blind to for so many years prior to that. My addiction had brought me to my knees, and it was now time to wake up and start getting it together.
“It wasn’t until two or three years after that that I started wanting more for myself. But it was a very humbling experience. It was sad. I found myself out and about a week later, getting heroin, and smoking crack again. And again, just suppressing all of those feelings I had had. I felt like I could not stop the vicious cycle. Addiction is a vicious cycle. For many people, it’s hard to find that break. If you do find it, it’s possible.”
What were some of the things you missed out on or lost because of the years of addiction?
“One of the biggest things is time. We as humans, we as people, can get a lot of things back in life. Sneakers, clothes, cars. But the most valuable thing that we as humans can’t get back is time. So if you asked me what the biggest one was, it would be time. I missed out on time with my nephews. Time to get my career off the ground and finances in order. Yes, we can get some of those things back, but we don’t get time back.”
Has forgiving yourself, or even forgiving others, been part of the process of recovery for you?
“Yeah, very big. I’d like to sit here today and say that I one hundred percent wholeheartedly have forgiven myself. Some days I think I’ve got it and I do, and other days I don’t. I think that’s all part of the recovery process. Good days and bad. That’s for anybody. But we as addicts struggle a little more, I feel. Or depression. Whatever somebody is recovering from.
“I believe I’m almost there. It’s a process of forgiving myself. Forgiving others is a process as well. But I understand there were a lot of difficult decisions and situations I put my family in for many years that I was bitter from. It had to eventually come to a point where they had to separate—for themselves. I have forgiven. I have to, because we as adults—cancer survivors, addiction, depression, mental health, whatever you may be recovering from—it’s vitally important that the person who has suffered for so many years gets to a point where they forgive themselves so they can move forward.
“There have been a lot of crying nights, a lot of fist punches to the pillow, a lot of difficult situations I’ve had to play over in my mind as it’s a process, you have to forgive in order to move forward. Some of the situations I didn’t like having to forgive and I still struggle with today. But it’s only going to hold me back. I was very fortunate that I had a family and I still have a family that is allowing me to recover. And it’s allowing me to forgive myself. One of the biggest things my family said to me two and a half years ago was we forgive you. A lot of people don’t get that opportunity. The ones who do, we’re very fortunate. But I’m still told up until last week when I was having a ‘Jenny’ moment, ‘Jenny, we forgive you. You can feel sorry for what you’ve been through, but we forgive you and we’re here.’ And it’s important that you know that so you can move forward.
“So I have to keep replaying that in my head every day. My mother is a second-time cancer survivor, and I tell her, ‘I know you didn’t mean to get sick. Sometimes I think you had to go and get sick,’ and she’ll say, ‘Well, you were sick for years. Allow me time to get well.’ So I forgive. It’s important to forgive. It’s a process.”
It sounds like having your family tell you they forgive you is freeing in some way.
“Absolutely. It’s relieving for me. The guilt was a very big part of what stopped me from moving forward. It was self-medicating, which started in high school, as I said. Self-medicating from bad decisions, bad choices in friends, being bullied out of my own town. But almost a year ago I forgave some of those people in high school, because we were young. We didn’t know. We wanted to be cool. That’s part of me that’s forgiving. But my family. Yes, for them to be able to say Jenny we forgive you, and it’s important that you know that because we want you to be healthy and be here with us. It’s a very big part for me.”
What sort of role do you think guilt and shame have played in your mental health and addiction?
“The stealing that I did from my family, money. Lies. Being someone I wasn’t. I think one of the biggest things is I had many opportunities to come clean with them, and I didn’t. But I can’t change that. I can only move forward from where I am now.
“A lot of the guilt and shame is from where I was living for a long time. Just kind of a reflection of how life was. Facebook does these pop-up pictures from years prior. And a lot of them have been popping up from the last four or five years. It’s been a good reminder. Because I thought I looked healthy back then. I didn’t. To see how far I’ve come. So the guilt, when I see those. I take it as a hard lesson. Thank you for letting me see how I was. But I wasn’t fooling anybody for a long time. I was only fooling myself.”
Would you say that guilt and shame feed the fire of addiction?
“Oh yeah. The guilt and the shame feed the fire. Absolutely. Because people don’t like feeling feelings. Not everybody. But feelings are healthy from what I’ve been learning. It’s okay to feel sad. It’s okay to feel mad. It’s okay to feel anger, disappointment, and resentment. It’s okay to be uncomfortable sometimes, you know? That’s good. But for many years, the guilt was feeding all of that and suppressing my way of life.”
All those years of repressing and suppressing those feelings that made you uncomfortable—did they go away, or were they still there when you got sober? And have you had to move through them?
“Those feelings are still there. They’re always going to be there. But I have learned a different way of life and a different way of learning how to manage those feelings and deal with them without having to numb myself from those feelings. Therapy. Yoga. Meditative coloring is my favorite. Love that. So I’ve learned ways to deal with those feelings. They’re always going to be there. But I think at the end of the day, as I was saying earlier, forgiveness plays a very big role in that. Knowing that if you forgive yourself, then everything after that kind of comes into order.
“Forgiving yourself is probably one of the biggest steps in recovery, because after that, your mind, body, and soul know that you have forgiven the most important person in your life. And that’s you. Me. The one who suffered for so many years. Everyone else did suffer, but it gives a sense of relief in my body that I can move forward instead of dealing with those feelings when I’m numbing myself and feeling guilty.”
I’ve talked to many people who are recovering from a wide variety of issues, and one of the recurring themes is that people tend to cause more suffering and pain to themselves than what initially led them to try to escape those feelings in the first place. Would you say that’s true?
“I agree with that. Absolutely. Eventually what happens is you keep suppressing, suppressing, suppressing, rather than dealing with the issues at hand. Eventually it’s two or three years later and time, we don’t get back, but we can always make more time. That leads to suppressing rather than just dealing with the issue at hand. It’s important that people such as myself, you, who have started this Hearts of Strangers, to be able to give people the opportunity to do this. To be able to share their experiences and know you don’t have to go two, three, fourteen years like I did. I would like to not say it’s a waste of time, but I feel if I heard these stories, with what you do and put it out there for people. A lot more people such as myself would have come out a lot earlier.”
You mentioned the realization that you were missing out on your nephews’ lives. What else contributed to the awakening you needed to make some changes?
“I saw my friends getting married and having children. And I wanted that. I always wanted that for myself. I still want that for myself, and I know at the right time it will come. But that was one of the biggest factors, missing out and wanting to be a productive person in society. I was missing out.
“Many nights I would break night and I would hear the birds come up and start chirping. Breaking night is just awful. And I would get in my car from wherever I was and look out the window, and I’d see people going by in their cars to work, to their lives. And I wasn’t being a productive person in society. I wasn’t playing a good role for myself, for my family, for my loved ones. I wanted more for myself, which I hope that before too many lives are lost to this vicious cycle of addiction that people get the opportunity, like I have or you have, because it is possible to live happy and healthy without being under the substance of an addiction, or a drug or alcohol.”
How important do you think connection is in finding a sense of purpose and meaning and moving forward in your journey?
“There are many important roles played in recovery, and that is one of the number ones. It’s very important. Networking. Yeah, I think it’s very important. Finding a sense of purpose and reaching out.”
When things are good but also when things are bad.
“Absolutely. Life is about finding a balance, and I think finding a balance for anybody, even someone who doesn’t have an addiction or struggle, is challenging. What is right? What is wrong? A lot of people say right when the person thinks they got it, they don’t. You’re always learning something new. I think finding the right balance and being comfortable where you are, in a comfortable setting. Finding what’s comfortable for you and then going for it. For me personally, yoga. I’m thinking about getting into kickboxing again. I’ll be the first one to say the best high in the world is getting the endorphins going and working out. That’s one of the biggest things that pulled me out in recovery. I’m a big softball player. Getting out there and being able to cream some softballs is a good feeling for me.”
So doing the things you enjoy doing must really make you feel good. You’ve been able to network and build relationships.
“Yes. And I’ve also been able to repair a lot of relationships as well. Recovery University was a very big opportunity for me. I met a lot of kind people there. For me I was kind of twisting in the air. And again, trying to find the right direction in life. Ultimately in the end, my addiction ended up saving me, if that makes sense.
“Networking, such as people. Reaching out, such as people to you. Or friends, such as yourself. To be able to sit here with you and do this is therapy for me. It’s recovery for me. This is a great high. Networking is very important, like I said. I’m also doing Narcan classes. That’s not a resolution. That’s standing in the gap. But for me to be able to do that and give people a second chance at life. Networking with Greater Hartford Harm Reduction Coalition, my friends up there or you. NA. AA. As they say, one hand washes the other. I feel that it’s been a challenge, but I’m starting to experience it in this recovery world. There was a time when I didn’t want to go anywhere. I just stayed in my house. I was clean and I wasn’t using, but I wasn’t living.
“It was because of networking, from one mouth to another, and seeing the support. There is a lot of support in the recovery world. There definitely is. You have to be very careful and choosy, but yeah, networking has played a very big part in my life.”
Did you find it difficult to reach out for help, and to find the resources that have been beneficial to you?
“In the beginning, I wasn’t trying. In all fairness, it hasn’t been challenging for me. I don’t know if a little bit of my personality has to do with it. I was always very outgoing. But it’s been fairly easy for me to find support in the recovery community and reaching out.
“I know it’s hard for some to reach out more than for others. But if you want to live this recovery road, walk this recovery road, I will tell anybody, don’t let any person, place, or thing stop you. You keep reaching out, because it may be the first, second, third, fourth, or fifth person who does not help you, but I guarantee when you get to the sixth or seventh, you’ll find him. Keep trying.
“For me it hasn’t really been much of a struggle. I’m very fortunate. I have a loving family that just when I gave up on me, had to love me from afar. But I have some encountered some really wonderful friends and great support over the years.”
It sounds like you have a lot of unconditional love and support in your life.
“I do. And a lot of people aren’t as fortunate as me. And for that my heart goes out even harder for them.”
Is that what inspires you to reach out and be part of the community of helping others who may be going through some of the same obstacles that you’ve faced?
“Absolutely. Because although it is going on almost three years now of having those feelings. I have recovery dates for certain things that I stopped along the way. But all in all, about three years. Those feelings, like we said earlier, they never go away. But those feelings of loneliness, the feelings of craving a high or drug to just make you feel normal. All of those feelings will impact me for the rest of my life. I’m never going to forget where I came from. I know where I’m going, and I’m not close to where I want to be, but I’m a lot farther than I was. That makes me want to get out there and empathize with people as humans. The sick and still suffering. To be able to help them. I recently, in the past four months, got into working for Aware Recovery Care. And their treatment approach is wonderful. But anyone out there who is in this service or in this field, whether you’re getting paid or not, has to have a passion and know what one has gone through. Even if they don’t, it’s never bad to lend a helping hand and help somebody. So, my past experience is what is driving me to help people in recovery.”
Have you faced stigma at all in having the history and past that you have? Do you still encounter that?
“Yeah. I encountered a year ago, I went to an NA meeting and I had mentioned that I was on methadone, which is a medication that got me to a stable point of not being sick, living a healthy, balanced lifestyle. Healthy, honest, productive person of society. I had mentioned that I was on that, and somewhere in between the temporary sponsor that I had. I don’t know where she missed that big vital point of that happening, I wanted to start being a door greeter and taking commitments and working the steps. And it was passed onto me by this temporary sponsor that I could not start or take any step work or commitments until I was off my methadone, because that is not considered being clean.
“So that was a very big stigma and big prejudice that I felt. That, in turn, pushed me away from going to my meetings and pushed me away from my networking for a good six or seven months until I talked to a couple of people at RU, and they said, don’t let that stop you. I may say this angry right now, but I can voice it. Until you have a PhD after your name, then we’ll talk. For me, it’s what works for me. I’ll never be the type to sit there and tell someone, ‘You’re not clean because you’re on a medication that is being prescribed for abuse.’ Especially if you’re tapering off. But it’s what works for that person.”
You’re mentioned RU, Recovery University, a few times. Tell me what that is.
“Recovery University is part of Advocacy Unlimited. It’s a nonprofit organization that accepts anybody who has a co-occurring disorder, depression, addiction, to allow them to get an 80-hour certification in the state of Connecticut, to be able to work with individuals who have co-occurring depression, addiction, alcoholism, and be able to work in the field of addiction services. Anybody recovering from something, but addiction services mostly, mental health. And be an advocate for them. Help them on their recovery journey. The thing I like best about RU is I never thought I would be able to go to a university for something that almost killed me and made me hide for years. Then I could go to school for it and get a certification and be sitting here and working in the field. But along with the RU certification, I did some networking. I met some wonderful people along the way.”
It sounds like an organization, or a concept such as Recovery University, makes it possible for people who have lived experiences to then be a support to others who are still going through it. It sounds like a way to turn something negative and painful, something that may be been a weakness in your life into a strength, something you could be proud of. Something that had value and you could offer it to others to help them. I think it’s huge in shifting the perspective of the 14 years or so that you spent using.
“Recovery University . . . well, my biggest accomplishment prior to that was graduating high school. And that was a struggle for me, because of having to switch high schools and because of the bullying experiences I had. But the second was graduating from Recovery University, and having that diploma, having my father come. And having that certification and being able to turn a negative into a very big positive. And being able to stand on a stage in front of all of these people who are all fighting for the same cause. For so many years when I thought I was alone, I knew that there were people out there feeling the way I was, but I realize in-depth that I never really was alone. I’m not alone now, which is a good feeling to know.”
You mentioned in the beginning of this interview some of the things that may have contributed to your addiction. Your father moving away at a young age, moving away, changing schools, your parents going through a divorce, remarriage, and also being bullied. Where there other traumas or experiences that may have contributed to not having the coping skills needed to deal with those issues?
“Yeah, for a long time, from the age of 10 probably up to my early or late teens, I always knew that something wasn’t right with my mom. But I also didn’t know that she was suffering from addiction at the time as well. I was blind toward it, but I knew something wasn’t right with her, and her behavior, but I was given a lot of free time to come and go. There were rules. I wouldn’t say a bad thing about my mother today. She did a good job. She saved me twice from overdose and raised a kind, gentle, loving woman—myself. I think a lot of that had to do with it.
“As time went on, I started self-medicating and not acknowledging issues and speaking how I felt. Again, I don’t mean to keep going back to the bullying in high school, but that ultimately ended up being the biggest factor in my 14 years of addiction. Had that not happened, I think I would have been able to acknowledge some things at home that were bothering me, and worries that I had. My mother wasn’t ready to come and admit it yet. That goes along with people—when they’re ready, they’re ready. You can’t force anyone into recovery. A person has to want it. Now it’s almost 16 years that she’s been clean. So I think that had a big factor to do with it.”
It sounds like instability in your home life, and your role models weren’t modeling the healthiest coping skills for whatever challenges they were facing. So you didn’t really have the resources or access to coping skills that may have helped you avoid drugs and that path.
“Well no, that’s not really accurate. I always had what I needed. I was always well taken care of. Beautiful home, clothes, but that’s not all that a lot of people need. She never, an example of my mom. One day I swung on a 3 and 0 and you never swing on a 3 and 0 in softball or baseball, but I did, and I had two RBIs. The coach walked off the field and quit. So we didn’t have a coach to proceed and my mother was the one to get off the bench and said, ‘Okay, I’ll coach.’
“So I did have support. I did have endless love that I still do today. But there was part of me that could see that my mom still was not healthy. So subliminally in my teens, I just started smoking pot, drinking beer. Addiction is a disease. Now I know that later on in life. I had lots of support, a loving sister, family. But I think that did play a smidgen in my self-medicating.”
Thank you for saying that, because I think a lot of times we think addiction looks a certain way or there is a recipe for addiction. There are plenty of people who are professionals living in beautiful homes, driving expensive cars. From the outside it looks very cookie cutter and that they have everything that they could possibly need. There are still mental-health issues or addiction issues. I’m glad you corrected me and said that, because I think it’s really important.
“Yes, it is important. A lot of people think ‘She’s got the best Nikes on and Abercrombie and oh, their life is great.’ But until you live in those four walls, eight wall, ten walls—a mansion—you don’t really know what’s going on inside people’s homes.
“Again, hats off to my mother. When people are born, they don’t come with an instruction manual. I sure gave her a run for years. But I’m glad we’re all here to enjoy each other and live prosperous, healthy years to come.”
It sounds like you’re at a place in your life when you can acknowledge that your mother and father did the best they could. I myself was able to come to that place in my journey. And it was very freeing to let go of that resentment and the blaming sometimes that happen. It starts when you’re a teenager. You wish your parents were something different than what they were. You think you were going without. Then you realize that they are people too. They are doing the best that they can.
“Yeah, absolutely. Just to go back on my father moving away. At the age of 12 or 13, I felt like he up and left me. He always said, ‘Jennifer, I had a very tough decision to make. I had to make money.’ For many years, which led to me self-medicating was my father moved away, and he had other children. Here I am and it was bitter. Suppressing and suppressing. But little did I know that my father was suffering from alcoholism out there. He was having depression. Clinical depression. Do I wish that there were more attempts made on his part and mine? Yes. But for the first time in 20 years I just had Christmas with him. It’s a wonderful feeling. Relationships and family take a lot of work. That’s why communication is one of the biggest things in life.”
It sounds like there’s a lot of honesty now in that communication.
“Yes, there is. I didn’t realize what he was dealing with while in Michigan and Illinois. And I can only imagine that divorces can be tough. For him to be how many states away trying to communicate with a teenager, me at the time. And for him to know that I was BSing him the whole time and there was really nothing he could do about it. I feel more of an attempt could have been made by him to reach out. But also, I wasn’t being honest with him. And I wasn’t honest with him for 14 years. Even when I became an adult.
“It’s a process. Recovery is a process, and it’s going to be a process for the rest of my life. But I now have tools and wonderful people to network. And a support safety net that I can go to. I’m very confident with that.”
What sort of role does spirituality play in this journey for you in recovery?
“I’m happy you asked that. I would always call on God when I was in trouble. ‘Oh, God, please don’t let me get pulled over.’ I didn’t realize until maybe a year ago that I would only call on him when I was in trouble. So for a while it didn’t sit easy with me. I felt hypocritical to him. Spirituality for me, I’m still in the process of working on that. I’m working on that. I know that my spirit is what’s most important, and I’ve got to work on keeping that spirt alive and torched up, and it goes down sometimes. I’m working on that spirituality aspect. I had a little glimpse of spirituality on my way out to Illinois, which was very ironic going to see my father. There was a priest walking around the boarding area and there was nowhere to sit, so I said, ‘Father, would you like my seat?’ and he said, “No, no, no, I’m okay. Thank you.’ And I didn’t want to push it so I said, ‘Okay, happy holidays.’ So on the returning flight I see him sitting in the same area as me getting ready to go back to Bradley. So I said, ‘Hi, Father. Did you have a good Christmas? Do you remember me?’ because I had a hat on going out. And he goes, ‘I remember you. You’re the nice young lady who offered me your seat on the way out, and it made me feel good to know that there are still people out there doing nice charity work.’ And as little as that was, we got into a discussion of how cold the world can be today. I shared very briefly what I could about my addiction and my struggles. It was almost a sign that he was on that plane, because it’s one of the things that I’m working on right now. My spirituality, my religion, my beliefs. We ended up exchanging phone numbers. When he’s done with his travels, I’d like to go see him and get more in depth with my spirituality. So it was just kind of weird how that happened.”
What are some things that enhance your spirit when you are feeling depleted?
“A lot of what my spirit is is to not want to go back to the way I was living. Early on in my recovery my higher power was my nephews. Everyone says whatever your higher power is, even if it’s that tree, whatever you believe in you believe in. My nephews were a very big part of my life and a lot of the guilt I carried was, up until they were about 9 and 10, I was in their lives consistently. And then when addiction started to kick off, I wasn’t. So they were my higher power for spirituality. Now, what keeps me going every day is the remembrance of not wanting to go back and live that way. My body is healthy. My mind is clear. I’m actually okay in my own skin now.”
It’s seems like you’re looking in the rear-view mirror now. Seeing you’re in a better place gives you strength to move forward.
“Keeping it green a little bit. Remembering where I came from. Not so much that it hinders me every day, but knowing I’m not going back there again. I’m not going back there. To be able to have this opportunity today to sit here and to be able to answer these difficult questions, that aren’t so difficult for me to answer right now. But back then, I would have been dodging everywhere. To be able to sit here in an art gallery and be able to share with you. These questions that humble me and brought me to my weakest point for several years. To see how far I’ve come.”
What have you learned about yourself in these years that you were battling addiction, even in the years that followed in your recovery?
“I’m learning a bit more about myself every day. I think we all do that as people. But one of the biggest things is that I’m kind, and I’m a good person. Although I felt like I lost that for years, my self-worth. To know I have all of these people behind me who love me and support me is enough to keep me going. I learned that every day is not going to be a good day. There are going to be days that are bad. But it’s okay to cry, it’s okay to feel things without numbing yourself. It’s a cleansing.”
You talked earlier about how it’s part of being human to be upset, to be angry, to be uncomfortable. I can relate to that, because I think the things that make us uncomfortable lead us to check out and be numb with whatever we use, whether it’s television, phones, shopping, sex, gambling, smoking, drugs, alcohol, food—we all do something to take that edge off. What I’ve learned in my recovery is that when you learn to sit with what makes you uncomfortable, without armoring up, without checking out, without numbing, you make peace with it. Then you no longer have to run from it. You’re no longer dodging it.
“And forgiveness. Learning to forgive yourself little by little.”
We’ve talked about a lot of different components, and recovery, your own personal recovery journey. I want to talk about the role that self-love plays in this for you. Maybe in comparison to where you were in your addiction. Where are you today with self-love?
“It’s still a work in progress. I was struggling with addiction for 14 years. I’m not going to come out of all of those feelings I had in three. Self-love? I do love myself a lot more than I did back then. Knowing that I have people behind me makes me love myself even more. I always had that love. But I was just so numb to it for years. So knowing I have all of that behind me makes me want to love myself more.
“Doing work such as working with individuals. People in general make me love myself. One of my biggest struggles today is being too kind and not keeping enough kindness for myself. Loving everybody else and putting Jenny last.
“I have a lot of love for myself. I’m getting there. Some days are better than others, but I know when I lay my head down at night, one of my father’s favorite sayings is, ‘When you lay yourself down at night and close your eyes, it’s only you and your mind in there. You and your body.’ When I lay down at night, I have a good conscience. I know I did the best that I could throughout my day. I know I wasn’t hurting anybody, including myself. And I’m working on being pure.
“I have a lot of great qualities that I was told about for years, but I’m working on that. I love myself more than I did back then. It’s an everyday process. But I know I’m a good person. And I’m wholehearted. That’s what keeps me going, along with other components.”
That touches upon something I’ve learned and share when I have the opportunity to speak. When we avoid making ourselves uncomfortable and we numb ourselves and self-medicate, protect ourselves from being hurt, we end up closing ourselves off from the joy, the beauty, and the love and support that are there. You mentioned that you had love around you all that while, but you just couldn’t see it because you were in the state that you were in.
“Yeah, my mental state—numb, numb. I couldn’t feel anything. I feel things today, which is good.”
It’s part of being human, right? Feeling things.
“That definitely plays a big role in it [laughs]!”
Is there a favorite quote or a mantra or song lyric, or a piece of advice that someone has shared with you over the years, that you would like to share today?
“There’s a Subaru commercial. There’s a girl singing in the commercial. I can’t think of the song right now, hold on, it’s coming to me: ’take back my life song.’ You know what I’m talking about? That’s my song. Sorry I can’t remember the name of it. That’s it. There are a lot of words and lyrics in that song.”
I want to say it’s called “Fight Song”
“That’s it! Fight Song.”
What does it mean to you?
“The word fight. I’ve got a lot of fight in me. Prove I’m all right song. It’s not just proving I’m all right to other people, but to myself. I’ve always loved music, dancing. Music as a whole inspires me. The Right Song. That’s it.”
How has it felt to talk about these feelings and experiences with me today?
“It’s a great high. It’s a wonderful high. The reason why it’s such a wonderful high is because my body can feel, and my mind knows that this isn’t BS. I’ve said these similar words to people over the years. But when I would drive away or lay down at night, I knew that they weren’t real. To be able to sit here today, wholeheartedly, clean, not under any substance, feeling this, has been a wonderful experience for me. It’s been a great high. And I thank you for the opportunity.”
Do you think it’s possible by sharing your experience and your journey in this way that it could potentially inspire someone else who may be listening to it or reading?
“Absolutely. One hundred percent. I stand by one hundred percent the work that you’re doing, the work that we’re all doing for everybody who’s trying to help people by sharing their stories on this recovery road. Whether it’s just one word, one phrase, one picture, it can save somebody’s life, and it can really change and alter their way of thinking dramatically. And as I has said earlier in the interview, networking. This is therapy for me. Sharing my story. If I didn’t network, I wouldn’t have met you. If it wasn’t for Recovery University, I wouldn’t have met you. So it’s all about networking. Getting out there, striving for something that you want in life. Not having to go back and live that way. Having this opportunity today with you is therapy for me. I don’t even know if there is a price I could pay for a therapy session such as this.”
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