#nobody is saying that jgy didn't do bad things but calling JUST jgy evil or toxic or abusive or manipulative or whatever

[labyrynth]

okay so apparently this is the "quick and dirty" version, except that it's...a lot less quick than I intended.

Was Mo Xuanyu a threat to Jin Guangyao (and/or his position)?

No.

Why Not?

To his Position: Jin Guangshan brought mxy to Koi Tower after Jin Zixuan died to threaten jgy's newfound position as heir...except that jgs never legitimized him. Mxy's presence would be much more effective as a threat if he was legitimized, so why didn't jgs legitimize him? Most likely, he didn't want to piss off his wife (even more than she already was, anyway), but mxy's general lack of skill and...uncharismatic nature weren't exactly "ideal heir" material.

To Jin Guangyao himself: [i.e. reputation, safety, etc.] lack of will, mostly; according to Jin Ling, mxy basically idolized jgy. but also, lack of ability: if he had the ability to make himself seem like someone to take seriously, his situation with both the Jins and the Mo family would have been completely different.

Did Jin Guangyao perceive Mo Xuanyu to be a threat (to him and/or his position)?

No.

Why not?

He isn't stupid. He would know everything I mentioned above.

Jgy's upset at mxy's presence wasn't because mxy was a legitimate threat to jgy, but because Jin Guangshan, the father he had been working so tirelessly to try to earn the approval of was actively trying to undermine him and spite him. Who wouldn't be upset?

Did Jin Guangyao fabricate a story about sexual harassment as an excuse to get rid of Mo Xuanyu?

[canon-typical content warnings]

No.

(Aka, did Mo Xuanyu actually sexually harass Jin Guangyao? Probably. At the very least, he probably did something that looked a lot like it to an outsider.)

Why not?

Comes from MXY's Account: when mxy summoned wwx, he had written several notes that explained his situation. It's after reading mxy's own notes that wwx concludes that mxy was sent home for sexually harassing other men (ch2)

WWX dismisses this theory: when wwx witnesses the argument between jgy and qin su, he theorizes about what the letter might say, and considers the possibility that jgy may have played a part in mxy's removal; he dismisses the theory, concluding that mxy getting kicked out was most likely legitimate (ch47)

No need to remove MXY: mxy's presence alone isn't a substantial enough threat to warrant addressing, and he ceased to be a potential threat entirely when jgs died, with no path to legitimacy.

MXY has no grudge against JGY: If mxy had done nothing wrong, but was still disgraced and sent back to his abusive family, it stands to reason that he would hold a grudge against the person who slandered him and sent him back. Adding one more person to his vengeance list wouldn't cost him anything extra, but he's satisfied with just the Mo family. he doesn't appear to even make any mention of jgy in all of his notes. (wwx doesn't realize the person sexually harassed was jgy until ch47)

Not how JGY would handle a threat: if mxy was in possession of some piece of information that jgy didn't want him to know, there's no reason to just...send mxy home. the information is either consequential or inconsequential. if it's inconsequential, it isn't worth the hubbub of such a damning rumor (see next point), and if it's consequential, it isn't worth the risk of letting mxy wander around freely when he could keep him close (with mutual blackmail), imprisoned (a la sisi), or just kill him (we already know he's not a very good cultivator, and hey--accidents happen).

Not a rumor JGY would create: circulating a rumor that "the bastard son of a whore turned sect leader was involved in homosexual incest" when said bastard son of a whore IS actually involved in incest (albeit unintentionally) is just knocking on the devil's door. if he's making up a rumor, there's literally no reason to have it hit so close to home, especially if it's something as attention grabbing as "bastard son of a whore turned sect leader receives unwanted sexual advances from his own half-brother"

in conclusion:

headcanon whatever the fuck you want, but the way that the text currently is, Mo Xuanyu was never a threat to Jin Guangyao, Jin Guangyao never thought he was, and Mo Xuanyu wasn't just some hapless uwu gay baby that fell victim to eeevil Jin Guangyao's Power Hungry Plotting

sometimes...other people do bad things...and make mistakes...and it's because they're exercising their own agency.

Speculation Zone: I think mxy probably was trying to come onto jgy, and had been for a while, with jgy doing his best to gently rebuff his affections and keep things under wraps; he really Does Not need any more scrutiny or speculation about his character. Based on the way he reacts in the present (especially when he shows up at Koi Tower), I'm guessing it was probably Jin Ling who saw, probably panicked and ran away, and told the first person he saw...and the rest is history.

#mdzs talk #jgy tag #jin guangyao #mo xuanyu #jin guangshan #jgy and mxy have a complicated relationship #im getting really fucking tired of the self-proclaimed 'jgy fans' who unashamedly put bashing in the tags #and then insist that it's possible to 'love villains for their evilness' #like ok the problem here is that calling jgy 'evil' is missing so many points and is like. pretty classist? #nobody is saying that jgy didn't do bad things but calling JUST jgy evil or toxic or abusive or manipulative or whatever #just comes off as classist. #like you're perfectly fine with the degree of cruelty and wanton violence that everyone else in the book displays #but it's only a problem when...what? when the bastard son wants the power that should have been his to begin with? #when he tries to protect the honor of the mother his father only valued enough to fuck? #when the servant values his own life over the lives of others? #when the whoreson isn't willing to die for someone who wouldn't die for him? #when he kills a man who demanded his death for years? #also btw jgy's relationship with nmj is complex but jgy most certainly does not *abuse* nmj #nmj's supposed 'mental illness' does not give him a free pass for assault & literal attempted murder & i cannot believe i have to say this #jgy plays the literary role of villain but he is not *A* Villain. he's a ridiculously complex 3 dimensional character #and specifically...one that would have MINDED HIS OWN FUCKING BUSINESS if nie fucking huaisang hadn't tipped the boat over #huaisang caused the inciting incident and the rest of the plot AND is the one that provoked the 'antagonist' into action. conclusion? #nhs is the actual antagonist badabing bada boom. ive connected the dots. #(i do actually think there's a good case for this tho. jgy is remarkably passive until he's directly threatened with 'kill urself or die')

[llycaons]

ep37: a-qing just can't catch a break

the way his face just lights up when he has the opportunity to do something helpful...I mean I kind of get it but also. kid. get a hobby besides being a teacher's pet PLEASE

ohh neat. wwx talked a lot in the book about commoner's solutions to problems without cultivator involvement. it would have been nice to see a more pointed critique of the highly specialized and often impractical and elitist education the rich sect kids get

I love this shot. so mysterious and eerie! and he is so handsome <3

it makes me so mad that wwx is joking about a-qing's looks, not so much because I care about him being a dick and scaring the kids on purpose, but because it's a shitty and narrow-minded way to view a young person who is clearly suffering some kind of horrible...death? every single junior includes some comment on her beauty or looks and it's so annoying. she's more than that! she deserves more!

wwx scolding jl for emulating jc and sounding like a brat (or maybe more accurately to wwx's complaints, a little bitch) is weirdly satisfying to me. no he thinks the way jc raised jl sucks, actually, and he's trying to fix jl's attitude. here jl goes along with wwx's prank and then yells at him afterwards, even though he himself played along. a bit different from the jc situation sin he's a child, but I imagine wwx got irritated when he was younger a lot when jc would go along with his schemes and them turn around and complain about him as if he didn't particupate

STOP WEARING HIS FACE! YOU SICK FUCK. it's so bizarre to see xxc in black that I didn't even recognize him this time around. with the eyes hidden, it's a bit harder to tell

when I was reading swbts this weekend, she mentions that nobody actually follows all the precepts, because it's impractical and absurd. but there were some really obvious ones like 'don't murder' and it's nice to see that the lan precepts include some good things in there besides the well-criticized 'don't laugh without a cause' and such. also, lwj is the only person following every single one anyway and that doesn't have anything to do with whether he's a good person or whether he thinks wwx is a good person, either. they're really not connected and his character development is realizing that

aww, they're all offering their blood up. this little scene where wwx asked if anyone has blank talismans and commenting on their cultivation level was also explained further in the books - strong cultivators can write their own, but still-learning kids need to bring talismans that have already been written

wwx's face here is so sad. he admired sl and xxc so much and wanted to emulate them, and to see them come to an end like this...must be devastating. as if he hadn't already lost so much

ALSO the idea that would-be lovers turned on each other and tried to kill each other. I imagine that would be very difficult for wwx given his own history with lwj

spooky!

ssc's actor did so well. that smile is all xy

WEI WUXIAN CALLING XY A DRAMA QUEEN

help why did he say it like that

oh damn that's jgy

xy interacting with wwx is so funny to me honestly. like a huge fanboy. his greatest psychosexual obsession is with xxc but he definitely has a thing for wwx too I know he wants to be topped or something

classic line. we love not dehumanizing our autistic undead friend 👍

STOP CARESSING HIS SWORD YOU CREEPY FUCK

oh and this is also funny. wwx like 'are you bullying me since I'm still recovering?' (implying he IS recovering and could still rebuild a core 👀 and xy being like 'yep! as you recall I am a delinquent and I am acting like it!' and wwx being like 'no fair. MAN'

omg and as soon as lwj appears and xy is like 'hehe we meet again' and lwj just refuses to answer, summons xxc's sword, and delivers THIS devastating line. love it. no bullshit. no tolerance

I feel like xy recognizes lwj as objectively handsome but he's not really into him

his two-bladed sword is so sick too bad he's evil

I don't really think about villains in terms of whether they're 'redeemable' or not and I don't like to think of people as ontologically evil but man I don't think xy was ever going to be anything besides what he was. it did suck that he was mutilated as a child, and it must have been difficult growing up on the streets, but the glee with which he talks about mass murder makes me think he would have kind of taken any excuse to go wild and murder a ton of people. 'oh he just needed love and understand' well he got it! and he used it to trick the person who loved him into murdering more people and then he tortured and murdered their teenage ward/friend. I can appreciate a reading where he's more harmless and just funny in his destructiveness, but I will never be able to swallow AUs where he's genuinely a good person. loving murder is just too much a part of him!

there's also a line where the juniors make wwx say that lwj is good at stuff and he seems very taken aback to be asked, which is weird bc aren't they at least traveling companions? maybe he was confused at being asked to give an account with authority since he knows the kids still think he's a random jin exile who's known lwj for like. a few weeks max. man I don't like that moment, it seems really forced and awkward even if wwx is still in his 'I don't quite understand why lwj is doing this or how long it'll last' era. which also seems weird given them moments they've already shared and the comfort wwx has in stating with lwj? man, maybe it's easier if he doesn't have to think about it or explain it to other people. I GUESS

god this sucks....that's his last connection to his mama

A QING!!!!!!!!

wwx comforting her is so. he's been such a dick to the kids this episode so it's nice to remember what a kind person he is when it really counts. and a-qing hasn't felt human touch in a very long time

and when he says he'll do empathy, it's jl who objects! one of those 'aw, he really does care' moments

personal highlights:

while this wasn't as horribly dull and poorly done as the last third-party character focused plot (I seriously spent a lot of 34 thinking 'oh god, cql is bad after all), it didn't offer a lot in terms of special moments or humor. a solid 5/10. mediocre. let's see

wwx talking about folk remedies

the kids offering their blood. because they love him

wwx calling xy a drama queen

wwx seeing sl and xxc's bodies and realizing what state they're in. that shit hurted

"you don't deserve this sword' TELL HIM HANGUANG-JUN

#cql re-rewatch

[crossdressingdeath]

I think if people who weren't stupid and easily believed the rumors about wwx and the wens knew the truth. People just didn't care. Nobody did anything about wen ruohan till it was directly effecting their sect and he was threatening to be ruler of all of them. The Jiang clan is the only clan that believes in the idea of doing the impossible and helping others.

I’d disagree with the argument that the Jiang clan is the only clan that believes in helping others. Aside from anything else, the two night hunts we see that are done for the sake of helping civilians and not just for prestige (Waterborne Abyss and Mo Village) are both led by the Lan sect. We don’t hear enough about what the Jiangs did night hunt-wise under JFM to really come to a conclusion about how he handled that sort of thing, although he clearly did approve of WWX helping to defend Mianmian, which also involved LWJ and JZX, although JZX is admittedly something of an outlier in his sect. Basically saying the Jiang clan is the only clan that believes in helping others is... a bit of a logical leap, really. Especially since in the present day arc their defining characteristic is that they... don’t help others. And while the people were definitely very quick to believe that WWX and the Wen remnants were genuine threats, it is important to keep in mind that the rumours came from two sect leaders (and JGY, master manipulator extraordinaire) saying that oh yes, WWX is definitely doing evil things with his evil army, not to mention one of those sect leaders was WWX’s own brother, who also... publicly called him a traitor to the sects. Was it fucked up that the sects as a whole treated WWX like a rabid dog and denounced him as soon as he did something “bad”? Yes. But can I see why they came to that conclusion? Also yes.

#mdzs #cql #a bit of grapehate i suppose #anon #asks