#jgy and mxy have a complicated relationship

[labyrynth]

okay so apparently this is the "quick and dirty" version, except that it's...a lot less quick than I intended.

Was Mo Xuanyu a threat to Jin Guangyao (and/or his position)?

No.

Why Not?

To his Position: Jin Guangshan brought mxy to Koi Tower after Jin Zixuan died to threaten jgy's newfound position as heir...except that jgs never legitimized him. Mxy's presence would be much more effective as a threat if he was legitimized, so why didn't jgs legitimize him? Most likely, he didn't want to piss off his wife (even more than she already was, anyway), but mxy's general lack of skill and...uncharismatic nature weren't exactly "ideal heir" material.

To Jin Guangyao himself: [i.e. reputation, safety, etc.] lack of will, mostly; according to Jin Ling, mxy basically idolized jgy. but also, lack of ability: if he had the ability to make himself seem like someone to take seriously, his situation with both the Jins and the Mo family would have been completely different.

Did Jin Guangyao perceive Mo Xuanyu to be a threat (to him and/or his position)?

No.

Why not?

He isn't stupid. He would know everything I mentioned above.

Jgy's upset at mxy's presence wasn't because mxy was a legitimate threat to jgy, but because Jin Guangshan, the father he had been working so tirelessly to try to earn the approval of was actively trying to undermine him and spite him. Who wouldn't be upset?

Did Jin Guangyao fabricate a story about sexual harassment as an excuse to get rid of Mo Xuanyu?

[canon-typical content warnings]

No.

(Aka, did Mo Xuanyu actually sexually harass Jin Guangyao? Probably. At the very least, he probably did something that looked a lot like it to an outsider.)

Why not?

Comes from MXY's Account: when mxy summoned wwx, he had written several notes that explained his situation. It's after reading mxy's own notes that wwx concludes that mxy was sent home for sexually harassing other men (ch2)

WWX dismisses this theory: when wwx witnesses the argument between jgy and qin su, he theorizes about what the letter might say, and considers the possibility that jgy may have played a part in mxy's removal; he dismisses the theory, concluding that mxy getting kicked out was most likely legitimate (ch47)

No need to remove MXY: mxy's presence alone isn't a substantial enough threat to warrant addressing, and he ceased to be a potential threat entirely when jgs died, with no path to legitimacy.

MXY has no grudge against JGY: If mxy had done nothing wrong, but was still disgraced and sent back to his abusive family, it stands to reason that he would hold a grudge against the person who slandered him and sent him back. Adding one more person to his vengeance list wouldn't cost him anything extra, but he's satisfied with just the Mo family. he doesn't appear to even make any mention of jgy in all of his notes. (wwx doesn't realize the person sexually harassed was jgy until ch47)

Not how JGY would handle a threat: if mxy was in possession of some piece of information that jgy didn't want him to know, there's no reason to just...send mxy home. the information is either consequential or inconsequential. if it's inconsequential, it isn't worth the hubbub of such a damning rumor (see next point), and if it's consequential, it isn't worth the risk of letting mxy wander around freely when he could keep him close (with mutual blackmail), imprisoned (a la sisi), or just kill him (we already know he's not a very good cultivator, and hey--accidents happen).

Not a rumor JGY would create: circulating a rumor that "the bastard son of a whore turned sect leader was involved in homosexual incest" when said bastard son of a whore IS actually involved in incest (albeit unintentionally) is just knocking on the devil's door. if he's making up a rumor, there's literally no reason to have it hit so close to home, especially if it's something as attention grabbing as "bastard son of a whore turned sect leader receives unwanted sexual advances from his own half-brother"

in conclusion:

headcanon whatever the fuck you want, but the way that the text currently is, Mo Xuanyu was never a threat to Jin Guangyao, Jin Guangyao never thought he was, and Mo Xuanyu wasn't just some hapless uwu gay baby that fell victim to eeevil Jin Guangyao's Power Hungry Plotting

sometimes...other people do bad things...and make mistakes...and it's because they're exercising their own agency.

Speculation Zone: I think mxy probably was trying to come onto jgy, and had been for a while, with jgy doing his best to gently rebuff his affections and keep things under wraps; he really Does Not need any more scrutiny or speculation about his character. Based on the way he reacts in the present (especially when he shows up at Koi Tower), I'm guessing it was probably Jin Ling who saw, probably panicked and ran away, and told the first person he saw...and the rest is history.

#mdzs talk #jgy tag #jin guangyao #mo xuanyu #jin guangshan #jgy and mxy have a complicated relationship #im getting really fucking tired of the self-proclaimed 'jgy fans' who unashamedly put bashing in the tags #and then insist that it's possible to 'love villains for their evilness' #like ok the problem here is that calling jgy 'evil' is missing so many points and is like. pretty classist? #nobody is saying that jgy didn't do bad things but calling JUST jgy evil or toxic or abusive or manipulative or whatever #just comes off as classist. #like you're perfectly fine with the degree of cruelty and wanton violence that everyone else in the book displays #but it's only a problem when...what? when the bastard son wants the power that should have been his to begin with? #when he tries to protect the honor of the mother his father only valued enough to fuck? #when the servant values his own life over the lives of others? #when the whoreson isn't willing to die for someone who wouldn't die for him? #when he kills a man who demanded his death for years? #also btw jgy's relationship with nmj is complex but jgy most certainly does not *abuse* nmj #nmj's supposed 'mental illness' does not give him a free pass for assault & literal attempted murder & i cannot believe i have to say this #jgy plays the literary role of villain but he is not *A* Villain. he's a ridiculously complex 3 dimensional character #and specifically...one that would have MINDED HIS OWN FUCKING BUSINESS if nie fucking huaisang hadn't tipped the boat over #huaisang caused the inciting incident and the rest of the plot AND is the one that provoked the 'antagonist' into action. conclusion? #nhs is the actual antagonist badabing bada boom. ive connected the dots. #(i do actually think there's a good case for this tho. jgy is remarkably passive until he's directly threatened with 'kill urself or die')

[fincalinde]

I’ve been rereading it’s worth it every time and that + the post abt mxy reminded me of how much I like your take on what happened! the way that… it’s not malicious on mxy’s part and at first he doesn’t even seem to realize how obvious he’s being, but he does eventually escalate to actual, unwelcome, come-ons towards jgy (the first scene when he checks on him and gives him heart eyes vs the “I’m yours” scene, is what I’m thinking here)

Thanks so much! I put a lot of thought into making MXY canon consistent, and I really wanted to capture how desperately vulnerable he is without minimising his behaviour. And off the back of this I've written an entire post about JGY and MXY exploring how JGY chooses to handle the MXY issue in canon, so here goes.

The relationship between JGY and MXY is a complicated one. JGY is the victim of MXY's inappropriate behaviour, but this isn't what could be considered a traditional perpetrator-victim dynamic. MXY is younger, less experienced, less powerful, and has at least one unspecified mental health condition. Even before JGY becomes clan leader, he has authority over MXY even if simply by virtue of being MXY's elder and quasi-mentor—and once JGY actually is clan leader, he literally has the power of life and death over MXY.

Before JGY is clan leader, he's in a much more awkward position because any harassment he receives from MXY either isn't going to be believed or no one is going to do anything about it. JGS isn't going to step in to protect JGY from the brother who is at Golden Carp Tower literally to reinforce how easily he can be replaced. It makes sense if JGY is, if not necessarily fending off open advances at this stage, then at least navigating treacherous waters. MXY is in awe of him and can't physically overpower him, but JGY is still forced to live with him.

Once JGY is clan leader, he has far more options. It's telling that he doesn't quietly dispose of MXY—which he could easily do. I'm actually going to digress and talk about JGY's many other illegitimate siblings for a moment, because I never really see them brought up and we know they are plentiful and many of them have perfectly respectable mothers. Like MXY, the very fact of their existence is absolutely a threat.

We get one extremely unreliable indication in the text that JGY might have killed off some of his other half-siblings. During the scene in which everyone turns on him and starts shouting baseless slander, one of the claims thrown out is that before he had his father killed he spent a couple of years quietly eliminating his various illegitimate and unacknowledged half-siblings. I don't for a moment think this is true or that we are intended to think this is true, considering other claims include JGY, a prostitute's son, only rising to power by sucking up to NMJ and LXC; and JGY deliberately orchestrating XXC's death for having the temerity to politely reject an invitation to join the Jin at a time when it was led by JGS.

So obviously this is nonsense. But, OK, it's not as though it's completely implausible that JGY might have wanted his half-siblings out of the way. He didn't intend for JZX to die but he certainly didn't hesitate to put him in danger. Let's take the least generous read possible and imagine that this demonstrably false gossip has a seed of truth: once he comes to power, JGY begins to quietly eliminate his other half-siblings to ensure no rivals emerge. We know JGY is ruthless. It makes sense that he'd be taking precautions.

But we also know JGY is not solely ruthless, and that he is also generous and loyal and repays his debts in his own fashion. Maybe he did bump off half-siblings out of fear that his enemies could rally behind one of them. But he doesn't have QS quietly killed, even though it would solve his incest problem, because he is so profoundly grateful that she treats him with respect and love and makes nothing of his background. And, more interestingly, he doesn't have MXY quietly killed either.

JGY is an efficient and capable man, but he has a habit of putting people who know just a little too much in out of the way places where he doesn't necessarily have to think about them but they remain as loose ends. I'm not necessarily saying my read is that JGY was definitely systematically killing off his siblings over the years, but I do think it's something he is in theory capable of (I support him), so the fact that MXY is kicked out without subsequently having a terrible and terribly convenient accident is notable. It's also consistent with his habit of not following through completely on eliminating risk of exposure (however small) if he feels affection and/or gratitude towards someone. See: NMJ, XY, QS, Sisi, etc.

I think it shows almost supernatural forbearance that MXY is deposited back at Mo Manor. He really could so easily have been killed. He knows about the Jin's experimentations in demonic cultivation, which makes him a liability, and has even seen WWX's notes. If JGY were really as ruthlessly pragmatic as so many in fandom seem to think, MXY would have died in a convenient accident not long after arriving back at Mo Manor. The only explanation is that JGY is genuinely fond of MXY, and in classic JGY fashion this means putting MXY in a miserable situation that's out of sight and out of mind so JGY can continue to flatter himself that he didn't kill him.

#ask #crashorpie #roquen meta #jin guangyao #mo xuanyu #once again: i support him #there's such complexity here and it always gets more interesting the deeper i dig

[jawnlmablueorchid]

No one asked for this (well, someone did in a discord chat, but no one here on tumblr I mean xD), but I guess I will put it here anyway.

So there's like very little we know about mxy and if the rumours as to why he was kicked out of the Jin are legit or not, therefore, I thought I would share my opinion on the matter of mxy and jgy's whole ordeal.

What we know about how much mxy was or not into jgy is told to us by jl or wwx, I can no longer remember who exactly says it, but the point is that we knew that mxy had been kicked out of the Jin for harassment, and then later we learn that harassment had been towards jgy (allegedly). What we also know is that he is seen as a lunatic homosexual.

So rumours are terrible things, that being said, a rumour tends to be born out of base layer of truth, and then with years or with how much people want to be mean, it gets distorted or amplified. But the basis for a rumour is that it has to be in a way believable, it's can't just be koo koo bonkers. So I do 100% believe that he was gay, or at least into men, and that he was a little eccentric in personality. If he genuinely falls into the 'lunacy' side of things tho, eh. I am 50/50 on that, maybe after he got kicked out of the Jin and was in ana abusive household, he can lean further into that role.

Mxy gives up his body for wwx, in his letter he says he wants all those who have harmed him or something along those lines (I also can't remember the exact quote for this here) to be killed basically. And then he gets one cut on his arm for every person he has beef with. We learn that wwx's cuts are healed after he killed the entirety of the Mo family, which to me means that even though we know for a fact jgy kicked mxy out of the Jin, mxy hold no resentment against him.

The other important thing we most keep in mind for this is that jgy is a man who holds how people view him in very high regards. The way he acts and how people see him is carefully calculated so that people will like him. He was someone whose worth was always seen as inferior because not only was he one of jgy's bastards, he was also the con of a courtesan (which people then diminish to a whore). So jgy is out here playing life on hard mode, because he needs to make himself likeable enough that people can look past those things.

Another detail to keep in mind is that jgs brings mxy into the Jin mostly as a "fuck you" to jgy. I can't remember if he brings him before or after jzx dies, I will have to double check that, but I think it's after jzx dies.

And one last detail to keep in mind is that when mxy is kicked out of the sect, jgy was already married to qs, and therefore he already lived with the fact that she was his half sister, and the fear of being found out about the incest of their relationship.

There are all important details to keep in mind:

mxy is into men (something the jianghu is not very keen on)

mxy has no ill inted towards jgy (seeing as there was no cut for him)

jgy has will do anything to maintain his image

jgy is already involved in incest||

So you mind wonder, "Jon, why the essay on just if you believe if mxy was into jgy or not?", and to that I answer "You see my dear fellow, theses are all very important points because I believe the rumour is both truth as well as a lie."

-gasp- I know, how dare I have nuance and be complicated.

So see, I believe that when mxy joined the Jin, stuff was not easy for him. He was one of jgs' bastards, terrible position to be in. I think that based off what I know about jgy, jgy was very nice to him because a) he needs to be, and b) there would be some sympathy towards mxy's situation. We know that jgy is very nice and polite when interacting with other people, something we can assume is not something mxy experiences often, based off how the Mo family was abusive as well as him being a bastard in the Jin.

So I do believe mxy likes jgy. Jgy is his half brother who ACTUALLY treats him kindly. And also might I remind you, mxy is 14yo when he is brought into the Jin. He is just a kid, and jgy is family and nice. I too would enjoy hanging out with jgy!

The thing is right, I think the rumour started because mxy was also unapologetically into men. He acted as himself, which is a death sentence in the Jin, not even Jin Ling can run away from the bullying, mxy had no chance. So he is already labeled as a bit of a weirdo, and now he is always constantly hanging out with jgy? The son of a whore? Mmmm, me thinks there must be something fishy playing up.

So the rumours get amplified, they get out of control. And by that time, jgy is already actually engaging in incest. The last thing jgy needs right now as a new sect leader, as the chief cultivator, is to have people believe these rumours, believe he was do something that depraved, and then actually find out about the actual relation between him and his wife. Jgy is terrified of the actual thing being found out.

So he needs to put an end to the rumours. Rumours mxy is also aware of, and is aware would put a stain on jgy's image. And by this point mxy is much older, he is like between 16 or 18 yo. And jgy has given him no reasons to ever not like him.

So he leaves the Jin, because these rumours are getting out of control, they would damage jgy's image, as well as mxy's. And at this point mxy is a little bit obsessed with jgy but in that "You actually like me for me, I didn't know family could do that" sort of thing. To mxy jgy was probably the only family, so obvi he is not going to hate him for doing this when he could see how it would/was affecting him as well.

So tl;dr: Rumours need a basis to form, and they spiral out of control. Mxy's rumous of harassing jgy are not nonsensical lies, they were close, but it's not the truth either. They become even more powerful after mxy leaves the Jin, because people need to blame something/someone for something happening, and at this point jgy's rep is good enough, so mxy's is the one to suffer.

#jgy #mxy #jin guangyao #mo xuanyu #are rumous real??? #I have no idea if I should or not mark this as meta #mdzs rant #mdzs

[littlesmartart]

How would a meeting between WWX & MXY would go in happy au? MXY looks like a fun sized version of WWX- I cant decide if WWX would find that funny or weird. He WOULD be all "NOPE ABSOLUTELY NOT YOUNG MAN GO HOME" if MXY expressed interest in demonic cultivation (hes an array genius, WWX's notes look FASCINATING!), but I think they'd get along like a house on fire. Also did JGY find XY here? XY was 12ish at that time, and JZX seems to have a soft spot for strays and that would be 1 less murderer

anonymous said: hi! I really like your happy time line au where yanli & zixuan are both alive but I was just wondering what is the status of the wen remnants and wei wuxian in this au? Do they still die?

answering these together because they’re sort of related - so initially my Happy AU was just Everyone I Like Survives And Thrives Because I Say So, and so WWX never died, but... basically the more I’ve spoken with @guqin-and-flute about her 3zun Raise Jingyi AU (where WWX dies but Zixuan an Yanli don’t), the more I’ve got really interested in the idea of Yanli’s relationship with Xuanyu in a universe where everything went Very Badly Wrong with WWX, and so I think that maybe, in my universe, he dies too? he definitely comes back, without Xuanyu having to sacrifice himself, but I’m not sure how that happens because uhhhh [watches this space on guq’s AU] but like. I want the Wens to survive because LORD KNOWS we don’t need to fridge any more female characters. so... somehow they don’t die...? still working on that bit. Wen Qing and Wen Ning are like, Around. somewhere.

as far as WWX + MXY goes - the complexity is mostly due to the fact that Yanli has, consciously or not, taken one look at this mischievous, traumatised, sweet, ridiculous boy who likes to have his hair stroked and be fed soup, and realised that she can fill that awful awful hole in her heart without ever having to move on (an AU that allows Yanli to have Complex Issues and even... FLAWS??? [clutches pearls])... she knows, she does know that it’s not fair - not on her or Xuanyu - to try and replace one little brother with another, even if they are so similar, but... for a long time, it’s just easier than having to properly process her grief. (JC has almost the opposite reaction when Xuanyu gets inevitably dragged along with the Jin Horde - he’d never be deliberately cruel to a child, but his brain just sort of does [internal screaming] around Xuanyu because, uh, like HE’S processed WWX-related trauma either, so he does his very best to avoid him as much as he can)

uh yeah and then WWX comes back, and woomph. this is a HAPPY AU so it’s not awful, but it is a bit of a Time for poor Yanli’s heart. WWX has a lot of Complicated Feelings about being sort of replaced and basically everyone has to figure out how to reassure this poor man who is basically just fifty abandonment issues in a trenchcoat that he still has a place in this family that appears to have completely moved on without him. it helps a LITTLE that, after the initial NO THIS IS MY JIEJIE NOW WHO ARE YOU WEIRD INTERLOPER, Xuanyu just thinks he’s the coolest fucking person in existence. and WWX can’t hold a grudge worth shit in the first place so he has no hope against someone who legit thinks he’s great :)

xue yang is... hmmm. I haven’t read the novel so I mostly go by the drama ages and lore, meaning in this AU Xue Yang is the same generation (ish) as the rest of the main cast. I wanna give SongXiao their happy ever after though so like, JGY not helping JGS (and maybe getting some patricide. as a treat.) would probably mean that Xue Yang’s timeline is quite different so let’s say they just... don’t cross paths on that fateful day, and Xue Yang just sort of carries running around being a fucking gremlin without ruining the lives of everyone’s favourite Cultivation Power Couple, SongXiao adopt A-Qing and start their own sect, and it’s ALL GOOD OKAY.

more in this AU

#afvsjh #the untamed #the-bi-bilingual #ask

[eldritch-elrics]

For the ask: MXY

How I feel about this character

i love him so much. mo xuanyu is one of my absolute favorite character archetypes - the vessel. not important as an individual, only important for how his body can be used to store another soul. it’s just a special level of tragedy and....... wow.

plus! just! there’s so much more interesting stuff about him! his demonic cultivation - the fact he was able to actually pull off a sacrifice summon! his hunger for revenge! the way his narrative is twisted by everyone around him! how he fits into the theme of untold stories! and more..

hey also fun fact! the character for the “xuan” in his name, 玄, is used in the first chapter of the daode jing to talk about...... god i don’t know if i can explain it but it’s like the origin/merging of the concept of namelessness/unity (dao) + the concept of naming/deconstruction and there’s this line about crossing the threshold of that blackness and getting beyond dualisms and that kind of reminds me of mxy’s disappearance from the narrative and WELL ACTUALLY this is just gonna become me ranting incoherently about daoism if i get into that so i will not. 玄 is probably a common character used in all sorts of contexts and i’m just making a big deal out of it because i’ve read the daode jing too many god damn times

All the people I ship romantically with this character

there are, unfortunately, no healthy relationship prospects for mo xuanyu. i do think he gets a couple unrequited (or semi-requited) crushes - most notably on xue yang and nie huaisang. those are super interesting ships to explore (i’m planning to write a mxy/xy fic!) with lots of depth and lots of fucked-up-ness. another headcanon i have is that he fantasizes about wei wuxian lmao (but doesn’t really feel anything about him)

My non-romantic OTP for this character

mxy & nhs as caring-but-secretly-manipulative platonic/mentor-student relationship is my jam. there’s sooo much potential oh man

jgy!!! i think mxy cared so much about jgy. and then of course it’s all shattered. in an ideal world mxy would be closer with all his siblings - i also wonder what his relationship with qin su might’ve been if they’d been allowed to be proper siblings!

super interested in aus where mxy somehow survives/comes back and is able to meet wwx. like maybe an au where mxy’s spirit lives on in wwx’s brain? LOVE that shit. body sharing is one of my favorite tropes

i’m also interested in the concept of him meeting wn while wn’s still locked in the jin dungeon...

i had an au concept where he meets xxc too but that one was kind of weird and complicated

My unpopular opinion about this character

so we all know that mo xuanyu is extremely traumatized. i think he was also very neurodivergent even before he was traumatized, though, which 1. contributed to his reputation of “insanity,” 2. made it easier for people to pin blame on him for things he didn’t do, and 3. made him very easy to misinterpret/misunderstand. so, something like him harassing qin su? he wasn’t trying to harass her, but it came off that way because i think he has issues with boundaries (which i’ve talked about before) and communication. then of course someone like jgy took advantage of that and used it to kick out mxy. knowing that no one would believe him if he told the truth: see “bad at communication.”

...which is basically to say that i don’t think his breakdown after getting kicked out of jinlintai was the start of his issues; i think he was always neurodivergent in some sense and everyone around him was just horrible at dealing with that

also, i don’t think the way he responded to his trauma was pretty! even though he is the ultimate victim i can definitely imagine him lashing out and hurting people even before the sacrifice summon. he really needs some therapy

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.

i wish he’d been remembered more. i wish wwx had tried to get to the bottom of who mxy really was. i wish he hadn’t just been pushed aside and forgotten. i want him to have friends! i want him to be loved! i want people to try and understand him rather than use him for their own gains!

on the other hand, his narrative absence is so powerful

THIS GOT REALLY LONG! thank you!!

#mdzs #mxy #mo xuanyu #my post #ask meme #analysis #lady-in-the-lair #asks

[fixielixie]

If you don't mind, for the mdzs asks: best symbolism? Or ranking Jin Ling's favorite uncles?

lets do jin ling's favourite uncles: a list. because i just posted an ask about symbolism dksjfhds

thinking about it logically, i think jin lings favourite uncle would have been jin guangyao, as depressing as that is for him. jgy serves as a more comforting figure in jls life, of which he has basically none in the first place. you see multiple times in the novel that when jl has done something to upset jc, he escapes back to the jin sect to lick his wounds and be comforted by jgy. you can tell jin ling had a good relationship with jgy, because even after he's exposed for being awful, jin ling can't help but mourn the uncle he lost.

given more time to process, i think wwx could take on that role for jin ling eventually. you already see it within the extras, where wwx takes on this mentor kind of figure for jin ling, who advises him but also praises and smothers him in affection. jin ling felt a sort of sympathy/ connection to wwx even before he knew who he was, you can see it in the many times he sticks up for him and saves him from jc. i think this is a combination of both the Vibes wwx gives off and also because jl knew of mxy, who is also his uncle. before wwx identity is revealed, hes a guardian for jin ling, constantly going out of his way to protect him and it think this is one of the first time jin lings had someone willing to openly back him up like this.

lastly (because im not getting into the inlaw uncles we'll be here forever) i think jin ling probably has the most complicated relationship with jiang cheng. which is wild considering jgy, number one evil man of the cultivation world and wwx, past number one evil man of the cultivation world, of which both of them had a hand in his fathers death, are the other options here. but yeah, it seems like jcs presences is the biggest one in jin lings life, and definitely the most obtrusive one. i think a lot of jin lings bad habits and more immature traits are picked up from jiang chengs behaviour. i would definitely not call jiang cheng a stable parental figure, and i genuinely do believe that his first priority is always public image/reputation. he treats jl similarly to the way yzy raised him, and clearly she wasnt known for raising well rounded and stable kids. jc clearly cares about jl but has no real way of showing it other than yelling at him to be better or secretly helping him from the sidelines. neither of these methods allow jin ling to actually feel any sort of paternal love from him. (plus he dragged back and killed demonic cultivators in a childs presence enough for jin ling to know and comment on it so yeah... kinda deranged)

#ask #the tales of jin lings uncles

[hunxi-guilai]

I can’t speak to the book, but I think for the show that nie huaisang hadn’t intended for Xichen to kill jgy - I think that’s what they’re signaling when nhs picks up the hat and accidentally gets blood on his hands - deaths were in his plans but that getting blood on his own hands was an accident. I think jgy was supposed to be disgraced, possibly later executed, and if he happened to die in the melee, ok. But as for how it actually happened, that seems like a seized and regretted opportunity.

(y’all I got so many asks responding to various Nie Huaisang posts in like, the past 48 hours, so I’m just going to put ‘em all in one thread and try to figure things out from there)

I like the idea that it’s a “seized and regretted opportunity,” because I went back and rewatched the end of the temple arc in episode 50 to do the line-analysis post of Nie Huaisang and Wei Wuxian’s last conversation, and Nie Huaisang does seem to feel genuinely sorry for Lan Xichen, because Lan Xichen is a wreck after the death of Jin Guangyao, and it’s Nie Huaisang who tries to comfort him before Lan Xichen asks him point-blank if he’d really seen Jin Guangyao move, at which point Nie Huaisang retreats behind his I don’t know catchphrase.

A fic rec! I haven’t read this, but you should if you’re interested! Heed the content warnings!

I can see the poetic resonance of it, but I’m not sure about justice. Lan Xichen never went about doing any active betraying or killing; again, he had only the best of intentions and no knowledge of his complicity, and it seems to me that calling this ‘justice’ is kind of along the lines of saying ‘ignorance is a crime.’ Mind you, Lan Xichen isn’t unproblematic, but I’m not sure if he deserves the amount of blame placed upon his shoulders.

Ooof, this gets into more knowledge/detail than I know of (if novel readers want to chime in down below in the notes, that’d be great!). I’d always assumed that Jin Guangyao learned the Song of Clarity from Lan Xichen and stole the luanpochao (I have no idea what the evil music is called in English) from the forbidden-texts room of the Lan Sect library. Now that you point it out, though, it would make a lot of sense for Su She to be involved in the process as well, since Su She was trained in Lan Sect musical cultivation (and, I hate to say it, is better at it than any of us give him credit for).

You make a good point! #MoreAgencyforMXY2k20! 

(but also correct me if I’m wrong, but novel!canon MXY’s revenge didn’t include Jin Guangyao, and ended very anticlimactically after the initial Mo Manor business?)

Hey we all choose hills to die on and this one has a great view!

Listen I am all in support of a relationship between Nie Huaisang and Mo Xuanyu that does not consist solely of Nie Huaisang manipulating Mo Xuanyu into sacrificing his life unwillingly. That being said, we get so tragically little about Mo Xuanyu at all that I think the greater tragedy here is that no one ever really knows Mo Xuanyu for who he is, not even Wei Wuxian, who literally occupies his body/lives only because of the sacrifice Mo Xuanyu made

(I mean, Nie Huaisang might know Mo Xuanyu as a person, but I can’t imagine he’d talk about it anytime soon)

#ask and ye shall receive #whew I think that's all of the Nie Huaisang asks #folks really came out to bat for him and Mo Xuanyu and that's great #but also 80% of the Nie Huaisang content on this blog was made in the past 48 hours and I am rapidly losing track of what was said when #Nie Huaisang #Mo Xuanyu

[crossdressingdeath]

I once saw a comment from someone that apparently JC’s homophobia doesn’t count because that sort of behaviour was normalised in the time period. And maybe it was, but MDZS is a fictional universe that isn’t 100% historically accurate, and most people - at least most of the ones we are supposed to like - don’t act that way? the juniors don’t have a problem with it, LXC is fine, and many other people - even the Lans & LQR seem to have accepted it by the end. 1/2

Really the only characters who make a big deal about it are the ones who we are supposed to dislike, and I think JL did possibly? But he’s also a young teenager who very quickly seems to get over those attitudes. JC is homophobic, and people need to stop acting like you can make assumptions about societal beliefs and attitudes when literally no one else has them. 2/2

I think JL’s homophobia was supposed to be a reflection of JC’s teachings rather than any serious belief of his own; he’s thirteen years old and homosexuality doesn’t seem to be something commonly discussed in the setting, he doesn’t know any better than to echo the words of one of his only family members. He’ll learn. And I mean, the MDZS world does have homophobia in it? JGY took advantage of it by accusing MXY of harassing him, and it’s used as an insult a few times. But as you say, none of the characters we’re supposed to like act like that. The only complaint Wangxian really get outside of JC (and JL mimicking him, which he stops doing fairly quickly as he starts to bond with WWX) is from LQR, and it seems pretty clear to me that his complaint is regarding LWJ falling for That One, not LWJ being in love with a man. I mean, hell, Wangxian get married and no one says a word against it! Maybe a few complaints about them eloping instead of having a proper ceremony (and the usual Wangji Why Did You Pick That One), but the marriage itself is completely fine! Homophobia is very much a villainous trait in this novel. JC is the only character close to the leads who has an issue with their relationship that revolves around their sexualities, and that... that says something about him.

Actually, that reminds me, I have a Theory that WWX not telling JYL about having a crush on LWJ when they have the “why would you like-like someone” conversation may have less to do with WWX not recognizing his own feelings (or even not having those feelings yet) and more to do with being scared to tell her. He and JC spend pretty much all their time together, it’s not outside the realm of possibility that WWX knows JC’s views on same-sex relationships; while I doubt he’s worried about JYL having similar views (although he might be on some level, since her brother does and they were raised in the same environment), knowing that someone close to the person you want to come out to is homophobic makes coming out to the other person hard, even if you don’t think the person you want to come out to is homophobic. You’re scared of complicating their relationship, and you’re also scared of them accidentally (or deliberately) outing you to someone you know won’t take it well because they have faith in their friend/family member to not be homophobic if they tell them not to be. In other words, WWX might have known he was in love with LWJ at that point but been scared to tell anyone as close to JC as JYL was out of fear of him finding out, even if she didn’t deliberately tell him; he’d have gotten past it given time because JYL would never breathe a word of it to anyone if WWX asked her not to, but when you’re first figuring that sort of thing out it can be really hard to tell someone with ties to someone you know you can’t tell, even if you trust them.

#mdzs #cql #grapehate #jc's canonical homophobia #anon #asks

[plotdesigner]

26, 29, 31 and 48 for the ask game!

29.   Lan Cuisine Or Lotus Root Soup?

PORK RIB SOUP, ALWAYS

31. What Sect Would You Like To Be A Member Of?

Qinghe Nie! the long suffering logistics wing. sect leader why do you need so much paper???

48. Who Tries To Befriend Lan Yuan First When He Grows Up In Cloud Recesses?

Lan Xichen and Lan Qiren. like, lan wangji would try but he’s already...kind of pre-befriended and also in three years of recovery after his punishment, so! it’s time for the actual adults to,uh,parent this small child. or try to. I think the Lan family is going to have Extremely Complicated Feelings for each other to work through given [gestures at The Whole Thing In Canon], but taking the kid LWJ brought in while on death’s door and making him an inner-family disciple? that’s love!!

( of course, trying to befriend a traumatized small child isn’t an easy thing, much less care for him, but everyone’s trying, at least! and lan qiren’s learned from his mistakes the first time around )

26.  Who is Jinling’s favourite uncle (ranking)

I think this is gonna need some contextualization about jin ling headcanons in general to make properly and that’s getting a little long, so I’m putting this one under the cut!

precanon:

i. jiang cheng - the dude did a lot of work raising him, takes him on night hunts, he’s the one running in like WHERE THE FUCK IS MY NEPHEW, jiang cheng would die for him and jin ling knows it,even if they occasionally get into screaming arguments. he’s got 800 trauma and bad coping mechanisms vibe checking him,but he’s trying, and that’s something!

ii. jin guangyao - second place. the nice uncle, the fun uncle, who may or may not be vicariously living a second childhood through spoiling jin ling silly, but jin ling is at least somewhat aware that JGY isn’t jumping to his defense when he’s in danger or being alienated from his peers at Koi Tower. but he’s busy, right? he’s teaching him to face his enemies on his own...right? 

iii. lan xichen - jin guangyao’s best friend uncle. has a complicated but close relationship with JGY and Qin Su, and was almost a third parent to Rusong before he died. he’s...nice, and he always has candies in his pocket, but he always seems a little distant. also, jin ling had to go to music lessons with him for two years and they were miserable and he’s still a little annoyed about it

iv. nie huaisang - on the one hand, he helps jin ling sneak out of parties he doesn’t like and gave him his first jar of wine instead of just little sips,JIUJIU. (”you should definitely know how getting drunk feels like so you can understand it and recognize it! preferably with one of us, who can help if you get sick!”) on the other hand, he’s a dumbass,  a coward, and refuses to share from his infamous collection of Sexy Pictures even though jin ling is OBVIOUSLY old enough! what do you mean, not until I”m an adult! illegal! rude! 

v. lan wangji - he’s technically an uncle,but he’s only ever around once in a blue moon, and he’s always rude as fuck to jiang cheng, so, fuck that guy

vi. mo xuanyu - he used to be higher on the list  as the designated Koi Tower Babysitter Uncle, but then things got weird after Rusong died and weirder when he got thrown out of the tower for harassing Jin Guangyao and Qin Su, and he’s not sure if he hates him or pities him for the miserable figure he was when he was thrown out.

vii. wei wuxian. fuck that guy actually!

postcanon:

i. jiang cheng - getting hit with significant amounts of backstory is enough to really recontextualize some of the ways a man is Weird. it’s always kind of weird, going through that realization your uncle-dad is a person and not just your uncle, but he’s understanding a lot more, and realizing just how much JC did with him

ii. wei wuxian - he’s a good guy, despite being a bad guy? he’s so cool? what the fuck. jin ling can’t quite explain how wei wuxian’s support and repeated rescues are just, very good, but they are! it’s nice having more family!

iii. lan xichen - he feels SO BAD after guanyin temple. just wreck an uncle all at once, huh? he’s using lan sizhui as an excuse to visit as soon as he can get away from koi tower

iv. mo xuanyu - learning that there was a good chance that rusong was murdered and that mxy was almost definitely framed for stalking afterwards because he was investigating... his youngest uncle was weird, but tried to look out for him and his cousin. is it ok to miss someone who you only have very foggy memories of, who you’ve hated on account of a lie?( ...ok this also applies to wei wuxian, but wei wuxian’s alive to give him answers. mo xuanyu’s gone for good.)

v. nie huaisang - "nie huaisang, you killed me!” jgy what does that MEAN why is everyone AVOIDING NIE HUAISANG he has SO MANY QUESTIONS and no one is ANSWERING THEM - I think, eventually, Jin Ling will hear about the conspiracy and get his answers, and be at peace with most of it, as sworn family-in-laws and as fellow sect leaders, but its’ gonna be Weird for a while

vi. lan wangji - look, it’s not like he doesn’t like him? or maybe a little, but, they just don’t have a lot to talk about! (someday jin ling’s going to realize that lwj belongs to the ‘you like wei ying you will gain subscriber’ mode of friendship and figure Something out, but that’s a Someday...)

vii.  wen ning - guys, my new best friend’s uncle killed my dad adn then almost got mauled saving my life, what the fuck? and now he’s just hanging out as a spare uncle? it’s....Very Awkward and Tender Feelings as of immediately post canon, but Wen Ning has at least the potential to make it up to #5 if things go well. we’re breaking the cycle of vengeance today!!

viii. jin guangyao - look. he did try and kill him. and menaced many members of his family. but also he was his family? jin ling hates him, but he hates even more that he loves him, too, for all the good times they had before everything went to hell. if his uncle loved him, why did he try and kill him?

[llycaons]

I’ve been working overtime these past few weeks and this is the start of my weekend so I slept in a lot but I made it to episode 42. lore. reveals! the most romantic scene in the history of cinema. and then more lore but it’s super boring

the worst thing about viki is that they’ll have those weird ads both in the beginning and sometimes in the middle of an episode. didn’t used to. earlier eps were fine. this may be my punishment for cancelling my vikipass

whoever moved nmj’s head out of storage must have also taken out the very obvious torture instruments hanging from ceiling. and maybe the ominous steel table that people get butchered on, too. I didn’t see it this episode, anyway

six men and one woman are in a room, guess who dies. take one fucking guess

it must have been a stroke of luck for jgy. assuming she meant to kill herself and he didn’t puppet her into doing it, which he totally might have

actually? I think that’s what happened. wen qing’s cursed dagger was placed so conveniently for jgy to taken and then qin su to grab

super awkward for everyone huh...just standing around the sobbing chief cultivator cradling the body of his wife. while the dudes who appear to have driven her to do that just look at each other like *yikes*

why does wwx tell lwj to step back? he’s outnumbered, and still weak even with suibian. is he trying to protect him?

the way jin ling is so desperate not to believe that this is wwx... :(

interestingly, nhs is trying to keep wwx’s cover as well

how insidious that jgy is like “come to me, stay away from him, you’re safer with me” as if jl was ever in danger from wwx as if jgy hasn’t been planning on killing him to retain his position

hey info on mxy! jgy says that mxy, while at koi tower, saw one of wwx’s manuscripts about how to sacrifice your spirit to “heal a wounded person”. obviously wwx was actually dead so idk why the dialogue says “wounded” but it does mean that mxy was able to ressurected wwx using wwx’s own writings, and that the body wwx has really is his

presumably healed of all scars and able to cultivate a golden core again? I’m taking that. I always loved the symbolism behind wwx having a fresh start like in the novel

HMMMM koi tower declaration!!!!!!!!

not much to say except I love that smile lwj gives right afterwards so much. I actually made the same expression as wwx, this delighted disbelieving laughter. he doesn’t care about his reputation. he’s throwing all plausible deniability and standing by someone who’s been labelled a heretic by cultivators, in front of all the most powerful people in their world

very intentional shots of nhs here, including one where he grips his fan hard

stabby scene :(

jc literally is just standing there...he looks panicked tbh, I do think he’s worried about wwx, but he’s doing nothing

the thing about lwj and wwx that works postres is that while wwx doesn’t know every single detail about what lwj did for him or tried to do for him (like breaking into the forbidden library basement back in post-sunshot), he knows that lwj is on his side and he knows he can trust him because that’s how lwj acts, consistently

yes, jc sacrificed himself for wwx back pre sunshot and wwx never knew, but if he had, would it have really changed how their relationship fell apart? one act of selflessness - and it was a big act, that’s true - is not equal to actually treating someone well and being supportive and making sure they’re listened to and safe. jc’s one act of courage is just not comparable to the continuous support and care that lwj is giving wwx postres. which is why their relationship badly needs restructuring in the first place. you can’t point to one good thing someone did and say “now everything is forgiven and you love me, right?” it’s complicated. and jc did try to help in the only way he knew how, and wwx did intentionally defect, but there’s so many other ways jc went wrong, both back then, and currently. hopefully that makes sense?

anyway. jin ling dropped his father’s sword. I forgot that

poor kid

thinking about lwj bringing back wwx to CR, to the home that used to be his mother’s, and bandaging his wound, and putting him in warm clothes, and putting him to bed, and playing rest for him the entire time he sleeps...the love and devotion obviously but also the sheer effort that goes into making sure wwx is okay...idk if any other character is up to the task I rly don’t

lwj didn’t even change his clothes and it’s definitely the next day since they were fleeing at night

is he in lwj’s bed? I mean, he must be. there’s no reason the jingshi would have two beds

it would be a little small for two people tbh but the designs is very nice

...so what does wwx do after the temple? did lwj order another bed? presumably?

but if they share at any point it’s going to be so cramped...

wwx waking up and it’s blurry for a bit then it clears is such a nice technique. I feel like I’m waking up with him. the angle reminds me of that time he woke up to yanli

his trousers with the underrobe is so cute im glad we left that ugly mask behind

I wonder if it’s a little surreal for wwx to watch lxc “argue” with his brother by explaining his position, making his feelings clear, expressing his respects his brother’s opinion, and reserving judgement until they have more facts. what a fair leader. he seems a little irritated but it’s not like he’s lashing out in anger or sarcasm or blaming lwj for bringing home a suspected mass murderer who’s wanted by literally everyone in every sect

maybe I’m being unfair. jc was dealing with the worst possible circumstances for his specific set of issues and he’s still grieving his sister, and as far as anyone knows, it was wwx’s magic going out of control that killed her and orphaned jin ling

like if he had a chance, I like to think he could have handled a lot of things better. that’s still an opportunity postcanon, it’ll just take a lot more work to get there given the damage he’s already done to wwx

on the other hand we KNOW it’s not just yanli and jin ling that jc is mad about, it's just the things he brings up intentionally bc he knows it hurts wwx. we know he feels betrayed and abandoned and unloved. and those aren’t things wwx can help him with besides apologizing for breaking his promise and affirming he does care for him. beyond that it’s really on jc to work on himself and realize that wwx isn’t bound to the jiangs any longer, wasn’t responsible for their deaths, and deserves to live his own life with other people he loves

like...it’s only by accepting the limits of his relationship with wwx that there can even BE a relationship

god sorry to keep thinking about jc but he is on the mind as they say

also this last section is incredibly boring

it’s impressive that wwx played that song he heard in empathy perfectly by ear. genius musician moments

I was going to be like “why would anyone collect evil music wtf” but I guess the answer is “to find out if it’s being used on people like it is here”

but jgy couldn’t have played it if it didn’t already exist in the lan library so...

this evil music is from japan fyi. the only time another place is mentioned in the whole show

next up: SNOW SCENE!!

#cql rewatch #in many ways the fan content around the show is a lore more rewarding than the show itself. after a certain point #there's a reason I read more fic of cql than anything else #and its mostly because the romance and the yunmeng bros relationship was super compelling #but the romance was censored and the yunmeng bros were estranged by the end #also jin ling. I want to see more jin ling #long post

[clockworkspider]

Okay so here is the thing about shipping. Acknowledging a ship is not the same as endorsement. Exploring the relationship between two characters is not endorsement.

Esp for canonical relationships.

If someone writes a fic which focuses on the unfortunate romance and marriage between JGY and QS, it's not endorsing incest, but simply exploring a complicated tragic relationship that happened in canon.

If a fic shows MXY having a crush on JGY it's exploring one character having feelings for another. It doesn't mean the writer endorses that ship.

Like. We can understand that not every fic that portrays noncon endorses rape. It's not that complicated. Focus on a ship =/= endorsement.

#mdzs #clockrant

[fatalism-and-villainy]

Ships 3 & stories 3!

3. Other ships you like?

Apparently my shipping feels lately have been “if it doesn’t involve WWX or NHS I’m not interested” because all the ships I’ve been very fond of lately involve one of them :P WWX/NHS itself is a big one - schoolboy experimentation initially, and then messy manipulative frenemies with benefits shenanigans post-canon. One minute they’re like giggly gossipy bffs and then then next they’re trading incredibly petty jabs. They’re frequently awful to each other and have very dramatic public breakups while the Nie disciples awkwardly look on. (I think the reason WWX keeps going back to NHS is because he can let out his catty judgmental side with him, which is cathartic for him because with LWJ he’s always trying to be his best self. But it’s just extremely self-destructive patterns all the way down). 

NHS/JGY is another one, and I might write out an entire post of my headcanons about the ship/its appeal to me, but the short version is: JGY’s protectiveness and Pet the Dog attitude towards NHS (esp in show canon where’s he’s more explicitly a caregiver for NHS), and NHS’ exploitation of both JGY’s perception of him as weak and vulnerable and JGY’s enjoyment of being the stronger person in a relationship; JGY coping with his uhhh Complicated feelings about NMJ’s death by having ill-advised sexual encounters with NHS that he feels extremely guilty about because he is Taking Advantage (JGY feeling sexual guilt is always fun); the entire concept of baby gay Huaisang having a little crush on Meng Yao that really intensifies post-NMJ’s death due to his initial adoration towards JGY for caring for him afterwards, and then loathing upon learning what JGY has done.... it’s just very good. 

NHS/MXY, because apparently I just want MXY to suffer more? MXY’s !!!! response at getting sexual attention and validation from an older, powerful man (esp at a point where he’s wearing out his welcome at Koi Tower) that makes him very Eager to Please (and initially I hc that he hopes he can get NHS to like him enough to take him back to Qinghe with him DD: ); NHS poking and prodding MXY’s weak spots so as to more easily manipulate him, without MXY ever really being aware of this.... it is Awful but so so crunchy. 

And then there’s WWX/MXY and lots and lots of complicated identity dreamscape bdsm sex shenanigans :33 I also really like the concept of LWJ/WWX/MXY in some scenario where MXY survives and he and WWX end up sharing a body. Novy brought up the notion of a Machineries of Empire AU where MXY is WWX’s anchor (I think this will mean something to you?) wherein LWJ has to communicate with WWX through MXY and develops a complicated attraction to MXY through his adoption of WWX’s gestures and body language, but eventually grows fond of MXY as his own person. It’s not as straightforwardly happy as LWJ getting WWX back exactly as he was, but it is something. Either way there’s threesomes, but only involving two bodies (which is... actually all wangxian threesomes imo!)

3. You can bring one character back to life, but you must pick someone else to die in their place. Would you do it? How would this affect the story?

Wen Qing is the obvious option - especially because while I like Wen Ning having a chance to develop more independence and carve out a place for himself in the world outside of relying on his sister, I think Wen Qing could also benefit from some distance from her brother. So much of her life and goals have been based around protecting him, and I don’t think she really has a good sense of who she is outside of those family obligations and her work. And time on her own would imo help her get some more perspective into Wen Ning’s capabilities, which she tends to overlook in her need to look after him. 

Who would die in her place? Sect Leader Yao. That feels like a copout, but would anyone really miss him?

#paradife loft #replies #awkwardly memes #untaming #paradife-loft

[plotdesigner]

Hi! if you're still taking Qs for the MDZS : Your three favorite characters? , What’s your OTP? , You can bring one character back to life, but you must pick someone else to die in their place. Would you do it? How would this affect the story? and If you could make one major story change, what change would you make? Why?

I still am! if very belatedly! Please excuse how long this took  xD

1. top three characters

nie huaisang, wen ning, and nie minjgue!

2. otp

this is really hard, since there’s so many good ships but - I’m attempting to cobble together a raft for Sangning, despite them not really interacting in canon, on account of:

> looks like a cinnamon roll, could kill someone meets could kill someone, looks like a cinnamon roll. they both disagree on which one of them is which cinnamon roll.

> little brothers who go hard RIGHTS

>  imagine the potential hilarity of if they had an ill advised hook up at the cloud recesses or the wen indoctrination camp, half out of a mutual thirst for wei wuxian that neither of them was having luck with and half out of a mutual fuck you wen chao alliance, which they promptly realize they can never talk about or their siblings’ reactions will be more disastrous than the upcoming sunshot campaign

> which means wei wuxian only learns about the ghost general lost half of his virginity to nie huaisang when he finds them six months post canon, letting the juniors take over a fancy restaurant in qinghe and getting along much better than he ever anticipated

“nie huaisang, did you fuck my best friend??”

“i mean, you didn’t?” 

(putting the other two under a cut for major spoilers)

3. bring someone back and kill someone else off

i know that mo xuanyu is the thesis statement for the ongoing theme of ‘who lives who dies who tells your story’, and the ambiguity of how much he knew and how much he was involved in the overall endgame is part of many ambiguities that invite the reader to know more - but on the other hand, i am wildly curious about what he was like (and love seeing every variation of him there is!)

as for my mxy: he’s the best babysitter in koi tower until he gets kicked out, on account of your dinner is ice cream and your bed time is never for his beloved nephews, who he spoils immensely. an isolated childhood with the mos and going straight into koi tower to learn from jgy and xue yang have given him a very loose grip on morals but a very firm grip on loyalty, and although the only life he ultimately takes is his own, he’s devoted to his chosen family and to art of demonic cultivation and his decision to summon wei wuxian is in pursuit of those things.

nie huaisang ends up befriending him on account of ‘holy shit this teenager is this close to a qi deviation what the fuck’ when mxy ends up getting hit with side effects from demonic cultivation,  and they end up hitting it off as cutsleeve artists, and later as the fuck you jgy club. he ultimately gets kicked out of koi tower in a grieving rage after rusong’s death, when he decides to try and take out jgy early and. it does not end well.

and so when he’s trapped in his own hometown by his abusive family, mo xuanyu decides that if he’s doomed, he’s taking people with him - and nie huaisang, despite knowing the costs,d espite knowing he would be losing his dear friend -

jin guangyao knows how to recreate the yin tiger seal, and there’s at least one working copy of it floating around. they know that much from mo xuanyu’s time as a jin demonic cultivator. if they want to defeat jin guangyao without massive casualties - if they can’t get it from him, then they need someone who can. someone who can counter the tiger seal.

so, if his ritual...somehow ends in him AND wei wuxian alive - on the one hand, jgy may find out that people are out to get him much sooner, since wwx can’t hide beyind mxy’s name, and there’s the complications of if mxy and nhs can keep their collaboration quiet -

on the other hand. jin ling gets his disaster uncle to clumsily worry over. the juniors get mildly terrorized by two demonic cultivator teachers. xue yang vs mo xuanyu teacher-student bickering while they try and off each other. two demonic cultivators in the lan libraries!

(and mo xuanyu gets his happily ever after. and a little mo family murder as a treat!)

as for kill? su she, probably. “who the fuck is su she” meme, but also - if he’s gone, does jgy have someone else he’s befriended into being his loyal minion? are there other people he would have cultivated a relationship with? or were the circumstances of their friendship unique?  su she’s devotion to jgy is obvious and a little heartbreaking, (something something parallels to wen ning), - and jgy obviously likes him enough to rescue him in the temple, but how much of that is because he’s useful and how much is because of genuine friendship?

4. one major story change

more on the mxy and nhs team up! there are already some fantastic fanfictions about what exactly was there, but like. hell yeah. (though i do prefer them as a sibling relationship to a romantic one, so we can have yet another traincrash sibling bond broken for parallels. also nhs losing two siblings to jgy... and giving him a good reason to sic his brother’s arm on the mo family other than for The Plan)

alternatively - more on what the wen sibs were doing during the war. we get an implication of punishment in the live action and nothing about consequences for meddling in lotus pier in the book in the book - were they caught at all? were they suspected? what was wen qing like as the supervisor in yiling? was there a field hospital she ran?? did wen ning snipe people as an archer or was he full time doctoring??? I HAVE QUESTIONS

#the untamed #nie huaisang #mo xuanyu #wen ning