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lily-orchard · 6 months

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I was wondering if you had any thoughts on "jedi genocide" discourse? I've seen people claim that criticism of the Jedi are antisemetic canards in disguise

That breaks down is in a very simple problem in that the Jedi... actually ARE a state power. They ARE an institution. They ARE an arm of a late stage capitalist power. They ARE the Catholic Church.

Remember, Jedi philosophy is not based off Bhuddism or Judaism or even Christianity. It's based off the Freudian rambles of a misogynistic weirdo from the 1940's.

The problem is much of Star Wars buys into the hype of the Jedi whole-heartedly. It's only the Prequels, KOTOR 2 and SWTOR that engage with any moral greyness in the Jedi-Sith war.

Characters will often articulate a lot of great criticisms of the Jedi Order, but the unspoken second half of those critiques are all "And that's why I'm now helping the mass murderer commit galactic genocide!" Virtue in Star Wars in inextricably linked to the Jedi Order, just as vice is always the domain of the Sith.

On a Watsonian level, the Jedi are the quintessential good guys. Why? Because the story said so. On a Doylist level, they are just a religious organization that submits to power.

Now real world religions have these things called "Denominations" because the longer a religion lasts the more people split off from it on fundamental disagreements. But the Jedi and Sith never have more than one active denomination at a time. There's no diversity of thought among the Jedi. You're encouraged to view the Jedi as a monolith... because they are an extension of the monomyth.

I've said for a while the Jedi and Sith codes are wildly open to interpretation, and I've given a thesis before about how the Rebel Alliance embodies the Sith Code to a T. But Star Wars doesn't really do that. Honestly it doesn't really examine the Jedi or Sith Codes at all. You'll recite them in different games, but you're never asked to explain what they mean. Because their creators don't even know what they mean.

The Jedi and Sith don't really have a guiding philosophy beyond "Emotions Bad, Emotions Good." My own work with Star Wars was fundamentally about how the Jedi and Sith cannot continue as they are. They must change. They must evolve. The Sith by rising from the ashes of genocide as they had once been long ago, and the Jedi by evolving beyond their restrictive and apathetic past.

But the real meta-commentary is that they both have to stand for something. ANYTHING. Because in current canon, they stand for nothing. They're a big empty space reading "Insert Good/Evil Here." And that Good/Evil is largely defined by deeply capitalist corporate monopoly.

Always remember: The Empire and the Republic were not separate entities. They were the same thing.

Palpatine didn't turn the Republic into a corrupt, imperialist state. It already was that. It had been that for centuries. The Jedi fundamentally served the Republic. And the Republic was not a bastion of goodness. It was a wealthy nation that exploited the shit out of the rest of the galaxy.

The Jedi, being the epitome of Lawful Neutral, could only ever be as 'good' as the Republic it served. The Jedi stood for Order and Peace. And there is Negative Peace vs Positive Peace.

These are ideas that people in the real world struggle with, I'm not surprised Star Wars of all things struggles with it.

This is all meta-critique, on how the story is written. So no amount of "But in the movies-" is going to really refute this point.

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klazje · 2 months

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thinking abt the trio (malak, exile, revan) and how they present themselves

malak, i believe, is an awkward and subservient to an almost annoying degree. he follows revan around, does what revan says. he’s not a charismatic leader and he lacks many skills that could turn him into a good leader. he’s quick to anger and lacks emotional discipline, which only worsens as his life entwines with the sith. really the only thing that keeps malak’s emotions in check (and snarky remarks) is revan. malak also has a lot of complicated feelings towards revan. eventually i believe that revan’s dismissal of him and what he believes he can offer in terms of command and leadership is what drives him over the edge (and all that sith stuff). after revan’s supposed death and malak assuming the position of leader in the sith— he becomes a bully. once he was quiet, did revan’s bidding, now he’s angry. i also believe that, quite frankly, he never shuts up. he talks back to people, rudely, and isn’t afraid of what will happen if he demands things. he’s no longer in revan’s shadow and he knows it.

the exile is not a chatty person. she makes polite conversation but she’s not overbearing. the exile is nice, goes out of her way to include people in things. she’s charmingly awkward. she’s fit for leadership, but it’s not a role that comes easily to her. the exile manipulates others to reach this goal, even without her truly realizing it. she’s not a confidant person, which is why she is so drawn to revan. her self confidence is weak, especially after she cut herself off from the force. the exile bases much of her self worth off of what she can do for others— revan before malachor, and later the crew of the ebon hawk. many people describe her as a sort of ghost, she passes through rooms unnoticed, but the impact she makes on those who do notice her is tremendous. by the time kotor ii roles around the exile is tired, it’s apparent in their face and their body language. unlike malak, they did not enjoy the attention brought by the war. there is also something to be said by her presence in the force. it’s a hole that eats away at its surroundings, something you would not expect from such an unassuming person. non force users see her as a quiet, nice but awkward woman, force users see her as a threat lurking beneath the waters of a murky lake.

the exile was a good leader but nothing like revan. revan is a confident and charismatic person who would stop at nothing to get what they deemed was needed. i believe they are a fundamentally good person, who easily gets caught up in the mindset of “means to an end”. they’re if nothing but determined. the exile and malak suffer from their inability to stand their ground, be what they need to be, revan is not that. they take what they need to get what they want. before the war many jedi would describe them as contemplative, always yearning for more knowledge. it’s not until the threat of the mandalorians emerge that they prove their leadership skills…but revan was off putting to an odd degree, and had always been. it’s as if you could see their fate etched onto them, and they knew it. they always knew. revan has an aura of understanding, knowing what is needed at all times. this was only exacerbated as the war was drawn on. their troops would describe them as a wonderful leader, good with their fellow soldiers, always knew what to say. but those in high command, or better yet malak, would not say that. they were short and shut down conversations or suggestions that did not fit with what they thought was right…after the war that same feeling was present. even if revan did not know who or what they were, they still knew they needed to get what was needed done. most likely they were more friendly and charismatic when they were amnesiactic. always knowing what to say or do. they were still an odd fellow, their demeanor switching from excitable and friendly to quiet and contemplative. and when i mean contemplative i don’t mean your average socrates, but in a way that makes a ripple through the force…

food for thought idk

#sorry guys i’m insane abt these games #also if this isn’t consistent i’m sorry…it’s 12:30am and it could probably use some more refining #star wars #kotor #knights of the old republic #kotor ii #kotor 2 #revan #darth revan #malak #darth malak #the exile #meetra surik

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omgnoabsolutelynot · 1 year

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I was informed that KotOR II turns 18 years old today, and I knew that I had to do something to celebrate. I don’t know who put these guys in charge of the celebrations, but I hear that’s the third cake ruined and they’re sick of Darth Nihilus’ shit by now.

@laurie-juspeczyk Sorry for suggesting something and then immediately stealing it for myself heheh.

#kotor 2 #darth traya #darth sion #darth nihilus #birthday party #cake #happy birthday kotor 2 #everyone shut the fuck up it's an international holiday #my art

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eonweheraldodemanwe · 20 days

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"As you would pass judgement on her, I have come to pass judgement on you all. Do you wish to feel the teachings born of the Mandalorian Wars, of all wars, of all tragedies that scream across the galaxy? Let me show you, you, who have forever seen the galaxy through the Force. See it through the eyes of the Exile. How could you ever hope to know the threat you face, when you have never walked in the dark places of the galaxy, faced war and death on such a scale? If you had travelled far enough, rather than waiting for the echo to reach you, perhaps you would have seen it for what it was. Did you not hear its call on Dantooine, Vrook, on its scarred surface and in the minds of settlers? I have endured your corruption of my other students - you shall not have this one. And you, Kavar, so close to the call of Dxun, tell me. Did you not feel what poured from the moon, what had taken place there? And Zez-Kai Ell, to hide upon Nar-Shaddaa, yet blind yourself to all that happens there. So close to understanding the Force... so close to giving it up. There is a place in the galaxy where the Dark Side of the Force runs strong. It is something of the Sith, but it was fueled by war. It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the Dark Side - it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death. Revan knew the power of such places... and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others... of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the Dark Side. Did you never wonder, how Revan corrupted so many of the Jedi, so much of the Republic, so quickly? The Mandalorian Wars were a series of massacres that masked another war, a war of conversion... culminating in a final atrocity that no Jedi could walk away from... save one. And this is what I sought to understand. How one could turn away from such power, give up the Force... and still live? But I see what happened now... It is because you were afraid[Light Side]./It is because you had no choice[Dark Side]."

This must be the most satisfiying moment of KOTOR 2 by a milestone. Kreia delivered so hard to the entire council.

#star wars #kotor 2 #kreia #darth traya

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gugullig · 1 year

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Kreia, her ideology, kotor 2 and trauma.

So I've been thinking a lot about Kreia and kotor 2 recently. I noticed how Nihilus and Sion are both widely discussed in how they relate to trauma, both being warning and ways you should not go about dealing with your trauma. Nihilus has let trauma consume him, he's become uncaring about his place in the world, empty almost and nihilistic. He consumes and consumes other eating away at those around him instead. This doesn't close the wound trauma left in him he only grows emptier, falling deeper into nihilism. On the other hand we have Sion who exists on the other side of the spectrum, he has refused to acknowledge his trauma, he's in denial. He just keeps soldiering on. You can't meaningfully heal while refusing to acknowledge what has happened. You can't move on no matter how much you fight or run. Travelling with us on the Ebon Hawk is Atton, Sion's mirror. Just like The Exile and Sion Atton has a lot of trauma behind him, trauma which he runs away from. In the quest to make Atton a jedi you help Atton heal is by helping him address his past, his trauma and help him find a way to move on. Both Nihilus and Sion are warnings, how not to deal with trauma and that is something I see a lot of people have already talked about, but I think discussions on Kreia's warning are missing. Sure there are a lot of discussions about Kreia's ideology in general but not in how it relates to trauma. So here's my take on it. I've tried to make things as accessible as possible so if some things are over explained I'm sorry.

Just like the other sith lords we face in Kotor 2 Kreia is a commentary on trauma and how we deal with it. A warning just like the others. Kreia's ideology is objectivist to say the least, enough to make Ayn Rand blush. Her foremost value is self reliance and so she despises all acts of charity and kindnesses in a similar vain. By helping someone you're robbing them of their struggle, weakening them and so help and pity simply becomes another form of domination over another. The only difference between contempt and pity is that you feel sad for the victim you're elevating yourself above. That is why she despises the force. The force is a crutch that sith and jedi make themselves dependent on, early on Kreia talks about how the jedi are often overestimated, they might seem strong but they're weak without the force. I'm going to indulge myself and quote a scene at length here, it's just after you arrived in house arrest on Telos.

Atton: Explain something to me.

Kreia: I do not have the years required - nor the desire to indulge you.

Atton: If she served in the war... well Jedi are supposed to be tough, capable.

Kreia: Yes... and what are they without the force? Take the greatest jedi knight, strip away the force, and what remains? They rely on it, depend on it, more than they know. Watch as one tries to hold a blaster, as they try to hold a lightsaber, and you will see nothing more than a woman - or a man. A child.

Atton: But to lose so much. I guess I didn't realise how much they relied on it.

Kreia: Do not be surprised, in many ways, even you are more capable than a jedi. You could survive where they could not simply because you do not hear the force as they do. It is irony of a sort - and it is why I tolerate your presence now

Atton: But such a loss of ability - for a jedi, it seems so extreme.

Kreia: She has been gone from war for some time. It is conflict that strengthens us... and isolation that weakens us, erodes us. Add to that that she turned away from war, did all she could to forget it and the last piece clicks into place. But we have spoken enough of this - and we do her a disservice by not speaking of this while she is present.

This conversation between her and Atton hopefully demonstrates firmly the degree to which she despises dependency and how that translates into a dislike of the force. A dislike that would become much more obvious later on.

So according to Kreia, the force binds and dominates millions through its influence. Through its eternal desire for balance of the force for example it creates eternal conflict between light and dark. It pushes the jedi to charity and self limitation, to ascetic life and in the sith it created a people of war, hate, murder and essentially everything bad. The sith code created for the previous game was based on mein kampf. It worships victory and so the sith are ready to kill and dominate however many it takes to reach what they consider victory.

However, while deeply explored and thought through, Kreia's Ideology isn't perfect or free from internal contradiction, even discounting the objectivism. She believes that those who are dependent in ways deserve their subjugation. Just by the nature of the Star Wars universe they're all dependent on it, it "binds all living things". If the dependent are deserving of their subjugation what does that say of Kreia's quest to destroy the force? Kreia especially is dependent on the force, among the most dependent of all the exile meets in her journey. Her eyes have withered away due to lack of use because she has chosen to see through the force instead. (There’s a first person view you can enter with all your party members and Kreia's and Visas' views who both see through the force are adapted to match this. A lot of people miss this but it's cute).

Looking back at what I said about Kreia being a commentary on trauma and how we deal with it, this is the game showing her teachings' failings. Kreia believes that you can only grow from your trauma by struggle, by fighting for it, with absolutely no dependency. Your companions are your tools, not your friends, not your support network. The contradiction of her view of dependency and the force including her extensive use of it is a microcosm of this. She has grown dependent on her force sight because it has benefits. It allows her to see things she wouldn't otherwise. Just like with a support network of friends, dependency isn't always bad. The primary difference between a lot of the light or dark side choices is the degree to which you view other people, especially your companions, as either friends or tools. By accepting some degree of dependency, by surrounding yourself with friends, giving kindnesses and sometimes receiving kindnesses in turn you grow. By making these light side decisions you get the light side ending where you heal from your trauma and leave Malachor behind for good. You heal from your trauma by rejecting Kreia's view on life. In this way she's a warning just like Sion and just like Nihilus.

#kotor 2 #kotor #Kreia #star wars #knights of the old republic #atton rand #the exile #darth nihilus #darth sion

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nateofgreat · 11 months

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KOTOR 2′s backstory is really anti-Jedi, and also bad.

Honestly I think one of the worst “Jedi critical” stories in Star Wars has got to be Knights of the Old Republic 2. It’s just, really stupid IMO, I could do a whole series of posts on it honestly. But for now I’ll look at the backstory alone because it really doesn’t make any sense.

Everything starts with a sudden and especially brutal attack by the Mandalorian’s against the Republic, seeking to destroy it. And so the Jedi immediately intervene right? After all they have a long history of battling the Mandalorian’s and protecting the Republic, and despite what certain opinions would have you believe the Jedi are very much knights who don’t enjoy violence but will engage in it to protect the innocent.

Wait no, KOTOR is instead claiming that the Jedi opted to do nothing but sit and analyze the threat without even trying to help the victims of the war. Despite how wildly out of character that is for them. But okay moving on.

So as a result of civilizations being blown to smithereens by the Mandalorian’s and the Republic begging them for aid, the Jedi Revan goes around and drums up some support among other Jedi to defy the Council and go to war anyways. So naturally seeing this cult of personality crop up around Revan, the Council are quick to intervene and ensure this new following doesn’t-

No wait, there they go, off to war. At this point I guess you could generously view this story as one of a specific Jedi Council who became too wrapped up in other matters and forgot their duties? And so this new following under Revan are the true Jedi in this situation.

Except no, because supposedly (according to the game) every single Jedi (but one) who went to war with the Mandalorian’s and didn’t die fell to the dark side and resurrected the Sith Empire which proceeded to go to war with the Republic they were fighting for a couple months ago. So they all universally pulled an Anakin Skywalker.

This also doesn’t make any sense. The Jedi have great control over their emotions and passions, that’s why they meditate so much. They wouldn’t all be infected by hatred and turn to the dark side so easily. I’ll grant that some of them might but certainly not all (but one) of them.

Only at this point do the Jedi suddenly remember they’re actually warriors too and go to war. Never is the question raised as to why this war is so different from the first one they refused to fight in. But well, KOTOR 2 was really going hard on the anti-Jedi sentiment. To the point that the backstory for it all just feels really stupid and out-of-character for everyone involved.

#Pro Jedi #Star Wars #KOTOR 2 #KOTOR critical #Jedi Order #Jedi #The Jedi Order

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attonposting · 1 year

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I've always loved the scene on Telos where Kreia picks up on Atton's nervousness and breaks into his head, because so much crazy bastardry goes down in KotOR II while your protagonist's out of the room, and it's the first (...or second, in Kreia's case) major hint that both of your OG companions are not what they seem. It's punchy, it's brutal, and it sets the stage for some incredible reveals down the line. But also... for as skilled a manipulator as that scene makes her out to be, Kreia's threat to Atton doesn't really make sense?

I mean, imagine you're Atton. You've tagged along with this crazy half-Jedi for a while now, escaped a dead facility and a Sith zombie, blown up a planet, got taken into custody, lost your ship. You wanted to split first chance you got, because your life expectancy in their company's looking kind of shit and the less time you spend near Jedi the better, but you're also kinda inspired by them despite yourself, they need someone to watch their back, and there's a niggling feeling that this is the reason that's eluded you all these years - maybe this is why she thought you were worth something. Then this nasty old schutta tears open your mental defenses like plastic packaging and says “You stick with my student or I'm telling on you.” WDYD?

Atton obviously cares what the Exile thinks, yes. And he's very afraid of their reaction to his past. But if he's going to flee, then it wouldn't matter anymore if they hate him, because at that point he's made the decision to never see them again. Now, the threat Kreia makes to him later on, about dredging up the parts of him he tried to bury – that is a threat with sticking power, one that he can't worm his way around. But the first ultimatum is a cage with very wide bars, and they're ones he could slip through if he really wanted to. Maybe he's afraid the Exile will hunt him down, but it's like Kreia says; if the Exile is a Jedi, they won't kill him for his crimes. And if they're not, they won't care that he was Sith.

If the prospect of the Exile hating him is painful enough to keep him from running on its own, then he's already too far gone to run. So no. At this point, Atton's already decided to stick with the Exile. He just maybe hasn't figured that out yet.

So if it's not an effective threat, why does Kreia make it at all? Well... perhaps it's for the same reason Kreia calls him a fool and a murderer at every opportunity and repeatedly warns the Exile about his intentions. She wants Atton to doubt himself. She wants him to feel trapped so that he resents and fears the Exile; she wants him to struggle with his feelings of inadequacy so that he doesn't approach the Exile on honest footing and takes his frustrations out on everyone around him. She wants him to lie about his past so the Exile will distrust him.

Kreia is strongly against the Exile forming human relationships with their crew and pushes against every companion that has or seeks a close connection with the Exile – she plays up the split loyalties of Visas and the Handmaiden, she dehumanizes Bao-Dur, she derides Mical and insists he doesn't see you as a real person, she rails against every single romantic relationship the Exile might seek. Atton is Kreia's first competitor for influence on the Exile and he's either an extremely loyal friend or hopelessly smitten. She doesn't want Atton to mold you, she wants you to seek her counsel, so she does everything in her power to undermine Atton so that he ruins his own chances. And it's not totally successful (as long as you don't go low influence...), because Atton still admires the Exile more than he resents his situation, and he does come clean... but it doesn't fail either, because he won't admit his feelings until he's on his deathbed.

(And if you do go low Influence, it works completely – Atton is so trapped and isolated that he turns to Kreia as a confidante, as the only one who understands him in all his ugliness, and becomes her loathing disciple like Sion before him.)

In short, Kreia's such a good manipulator that she can coerce people into behaving how she wants them to by pretending to coerce them into doing something else.

#atton rand #kreia #kotor ii #kotor 2

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potatoesandsunshine · 3 months

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wait. he's my teacher??? "I didn't think you would turn your back on me too" get him girl!!

#anna plays kotor #extremely funny that i either missed it or it was not mentioned before we were in this cantina #the guy everybody keeps saying is the best tactician and coolest jedi... that's MY teacher 😤#now he DID turn his back on me and betray me completely. but we live we learn we never forget it.

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commander-krios · 4 months

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The Realities of War

Fandom: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Pairing: Canderous Ordo/Carth Onasi Rating: Mature Summary: War leaves scars both seen and unseen. Canderous Ordo knows this well, but he isn’t the only one suffering from the echoes of battles fought long ago. Words: 2430 Additional Tags: Implied/Referenced Suicide, PTSD, Mentioned m!Revan, War, War Crimes, Weapon Maintenance, Trauma, Referenced Carth/m!Revan, Referenced Canderous/m!Revan

Written for the 2023 KOTOR Exchange, Gift for @sihirbazi

Read on AO3

The durasteel plates felt wrong as he hefted them into his hands, the weight of them too uncomfortably heavy, the steel too weak to keep him safe from a lightsaber hit. It was days like this, when he’d take the armor apart to clean and mend, that Canderous missed the rough feel of beskar beneath his fingertips, the coolness of the iron, the pride at being able to tend to such a beautiful set of armor, to be able to wear it.

There was nothing better than being a Mandalorian with a reliable set of tools.

But he wasn’t a Mandalorian anymore. Hadn’t been since the War, since Revan had told them to destroy their beskar, for the clans to scatter, leaving his people broken, rudderless, and lost. He’d taken that life for granted. He was left with nothing to show for it except for nasty scars and memories that plagued him during the daytime as well as the night.

Nightmares were a normal occurrence in his life. Any Mandalorian who’d lived as long as he had, that had as many scars and fought as many battles that marked him as a warrior, would have the same. It was expected, welcome even. It meant he lived a life honoring Mandalore, honoring the oaths he swore as a Mandalorian. Even if he wouldn’t ever be able to live like he once had.

None of that mattered when he closed his eyes at night, the fires of war burning behind his eyelids, even when battle rage and adrenaline jolted him back to reality with an intensity that left his heart hammering against his ribs.

The fight against the dark Jedi on Tatooine had reawoken the nightmares, keeping him from rest. But that wasn’t the only thing haunting him in the dim corridors of the Ebon Hawk.

Jagi.

No matter how much he tried to deny it, he’d failed Jagi. And now all that was left of his former comrade was a body burned to ash amongst the sandy desert.

With a grunt, he reached for his repeater, sliding it closer to inspect. The Tatooine dust had corroded part of the trigger mechanism, the barrel stained with the blood of the Krayt Dragon. It was going to take a lot of work to clean, repair, and test before they arrived at their final destination: Korriban.

Unscrewing the trigger guard from the rest of the weapon, he carefully lifted the piece and set it on the workbench, grabbing a rag and some weapon cleaning solution, taking care not to damage any of the wiring as he wiped away the grime and sand from the trigger mechanism. It was meticulous, irritating work, but it gave him a chance to reflect in the quiet. Time that he didn’t often get with the Sith dogging their heels at every turn.

Setting the rag against the bench, he lifted the rifle and turned it in the overhead light, trying to peer inside to be certain he’d cleaned it free of all dust. With a satisfied grunt, he set it against the table once more when the sound of footsteps signaled the approach of another nighttime ghost.

The door hissed open before Onasi strolled in, pausing on the threshold at the sight of Canderous in the cargo bay, the pilot’s hand hovering in the air as if he regretted following the allure of whatever had pulled him into the room in the first place. “I didn’t realize there was anyone in here.”

Canderous raised an eyebrow, but said nothing, leaning back in his chair, arms crossed over his broad chest, cigarra hanging out of his mouth as the smoke rose in swirls to the ceiling. His gaze trailed from the top of Carth’s head to his feet, taking in every detail of the man that their leader had taken to his bed over the last few weeks. The strands of hair that stuck up at weird angles from Carth running his hands through it, tired brown eyes that peered out of a worn face, age catching up to the pilot more in the last couple months than it had his entire life. Canderous saw the dark circles, the lines around his eyes, the pallor of his skin. He wasn’t sleeping well, that much was obvious, and it wasn’t from nightly activities either.

Carth stood there awkwardly, rubbing the back of his neck with a hand. “I’ll leave you to it then.”

Biting the cigarra between his teeth, Canderous repressed the eye roll before kicking out the chair across from him. It slid across the floor with a screech in the quiet room, drawing Carth’s eyes back to him. “Sit down, Onasi.”

The shock on the pilot’s face might’ve made him laugh if he was inclined to, but as it was, he was a busy man who really shouldn’t be socializing with the Republic poster boy. But Onasi wasn’t the worst of the Pubs he’d met and maybe he could find common ground with him… they were both attracted to the leader of their merry little band. Vane was a powerful man who commanded attention, loyalty, and trust. There was no one better for Canderous to bed.

If Carth respected and desired Vane as much as he did, maybe there was something there that could be stoked between them as well.

Onasi approached the table with hesitation, eyes watching Canderous as if he didn’t completely trust him. He wouldn’t hold it against him, their people had tried to wipe each other out.

“I don’t bite. Unless you ask me to.” The corner of his mouth pulled up and Carth shook his head, huffed out a breath and plopped into the chair. “There. Was that so hard?”

Carth met his eyes, mouth twitching with a smile. “How does he put up with you? You’re insufferable.”

“A bastard, for sure.” He agreed, pulling his cigarra from his mouth to blow the smoke from his mouth. White tendrils curled between them, dancing in circles before disappearing into nothing. Canderous glanced at the dark skin beneath Carth’s eyes. “You should be sleeping. Can’t have you dropping your blaster or flying us into a black hole.”

Carth rolled his eyes, mimicking Canderous’s posture and folding his arms over his chest. “That’s unlikely to happen.”

“You say that until it does. Then who’s left alive to deal with your fuck up? Probably me.” Canderous took another puff, before returning to the work he’d abandoned when Carth entered. “I’m always cleaning up Republic messes.”

Carth didn’t respond to his goading, instead glancing at the dented armor that sat in front of him. “We’ve all been through hell, huh?”

“Some of us are still going through it.”

Jagi’s angry face flashed across his thoughts. Canderous shoved it away where it belonged: in the dark recesses of his mind.

Carth’s jaw tensed, but the smallest of nods came from him in response. “Telos, Malachor… Taris. Too much death, too much suffering. When does it end?”

Canderous sighed, fingers buried in the wiring of his repeater. “It doesn’t.”

Carth didn’t say anything, only stared at the armor in front of him, memorizing the blaster burns and dents, close calls, every one of them. Canderous had many brushes with death over his long years, but he was a man well acquainted with war, with destruction. One of many things that he had in common with Vane… and with Onasi.

It was still difficult to come to terms with that fact. That a Mandalorian could have so much in common with a Jedi… with a Republic soldier. They might have been on opposite sides during the war, but it didn’t stop the truth. They were all bloodied to the bone, haunted by horrors that most of the galaxy couldn’t even begin to fathom. And he liked it that way. Canderous wasn’t a particularly gentle or sentimental person, but he could handle the pain, the nightmares, the blood as he washed it away after each battle.

He’d bear that weight willingly and keep moving forward, slightly more scarred each time.

“I know you’re right.” Carth finally said, glancing up to meet his gaze, brown eyes hiding a mind full of the same dark memories: the same horrors plagued him, the same scars marked his soul. Canderous knew that look better than anyone. It met him every time he glanced into a mirror. Onasi sighed, running his hands through his hair. “But I don’t want you to be.”

“What you want matters little.”

Harsh, maybe, but it was true and Canderous wasn’t a liar.

Carth’s shoulders tensed at the words, but he betrayed not a single thought on his face. “I know that too.”

“Then why even talk about it?”

Carth sighed again, dropping his face into his hands and the walls, the facade, crumbled away to reveal the fear beneath. “If I don’t talk about it, I’ll obsess about it. All of it. Telos and Taris and everything during the Mandalorian Wars. To know that it’s someone I trusted that leads Malak’s fleet. To know that despite everything I’ve been through, that the Republic has suffered, none of it mattered. Because people are still suffering.”

Canderous huffed, putting out his cigarra against the metal table. The pungent scent of the tabac filled the air, one last sputter of life before the flame extinguished. His eyes traced the shape of the soot mark on the metal, attempting to collect his thoughts. In the end, he went with the simplest truth. One that even Carth wouldn’t be able to deny. “Suffering is the result of weakness.”

Carth’s eyebrows came together and his face scrunched in frustration. Banging his fist on the table, the deconstructed rifle shifted slightly, but Canderous ignored it, eyes fixed on the angry man across from him. “That’s bullshit! And you know it.”

“That so?” Canderous leaned forward, moving the pieces of his rifles away to rest his arms on the table, hands clasped in front of him.

“I know Mandalorians live to destroy everything they touch, but in the Republic, we actually care about life. About making communities safe.” Carth pushed away from the table, chair tipping over in his haste to move. His hands were clenched into fists at his sides, shoulders shaking with anger as he finally let it boil over. “These people matter to me, even if they don’t to you.”

Canderous bared his teeth in a growl, but didn’t bother to stand. His presence spoke for itself. “You have no idea what the kark you’re talking about.”

“I was there when the Mandalorians bombarded Serroco!” Carth shouted, spinning on him as if he was the responsible party for the planet’s destruction. “How can you be okay with that?”

“It was war, Onasi.” Canderous brushed a hand over his forehead, trying to prevent a headache from forming from the shouting. “And don’t act like your precious Republic wasn’t doing the same thing in the name of liberation.”

“I can’t believe how casual you are about murder.” Carth turned away, still seething if his form was anything to go by.

Sighing, Canderous rested against the back of his chair, knowing this wasn’t the only thing that Carth was upset about. The betrayal of his former commander was clearly still at the forefront of his mind. “All this time fighting against the clans and you still haven’t learned anything about your enemy.”

“We aren’t enemies, Canderous.” Carth deflated slightly, as if he realized what he was saying. The past was still haunting the pilot, that much was obvious, but at least he was fighting it. The thirst for revenge he’d started their quest with was fizzling out slowly, much thanks to the tender affection he and Vane held for one another.

A tenderness that was foreign to a man like Canderous.

But then again, Vane didn’t end up in his bed for the affection.

“What do you want, Onasi? To be closer?” Canderous asked, voice gravely as he leaned forward, watching as Carth’s cheeks flushed slightly.

“I…” He cleared his throat, sinking back into the chair as if defeated. “I want you to know that you don’t have to blame yourself for what happened to Jagi. Or on Althir. I think about Serroco every day, but it wasn’t my fault it happened. Yes, it was war, but sometimes, reality doesn’t matter when you feel like you could’ve changed history. Saved more people, made better decisions.”

“I don’t want to talk sentimentality with you, Republic. Or morality. Things like that don’t matter. What matters is what you did at the time and how you move forward. And the honor with which you served.”

Carth sighed, pinching his nose in irritation. “Fine. But at least listen to what I’m saying to you . I’ve seen the things that war does to a man. Especially ones that survive it. I am one of those men.”

“Jagi isn’t the first man I’ve seen crack under the pressure.” Canderous told him, watching as Carth flinched at what he was saying. “But he’s the first that I’ve directly affected like that. Or that I know of. It’s…”

“Painful?”

“I don’t know.” Canderous grunted at the pain in his back from sitting for so long. There was no way he was sleeping after this. “I’ve never dealt with survivor’s guilt. I’ve never felt it before. I’m not sure what any of this means. For me or for the future of the Mandalorians.”

“At least you have a future.” Carth replied, watching him with soft dark eyes that Canderous swore held some sort of affection before it disappeared. “Not many do anymore.”

“Jagi included.” He muttered, but Onasi spoke the truth. The Mandalorian clans were scattered, lost to the galaxy, but Canderous was alive, a bit scarred and weathered, but alive nonetheless. Maybe it was time he started living. “I have a lot to think about, but… I appreciate the talk, Onasi.”

Carth fought a smile, but his lips still twitched. “Don’t tell Vane that we got along for longer than a minute. His head will explode.”

Canderous snorted, but the image was enough to make him smile slightly. Carth stood, leaving him to his weapon repair, but paused on the way out of the room, glancing back at him. “You're not alone here. I want you to know that.”

Before he could respond, Carth was gone, the room a little darker for his leaving. Eyes on the disassembled repeater, Canderous let out a sharp breath, but for the first time since returning from Tatooine, his soul felt lighter.

#my writing #kotor #kotor fanfic #star wars #star wars: knights of the old republic #2023 kotor gift exchange #canderous ordo #carth onasi #carth x canderous #canderous x carth

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teecupangel · 1 year

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I've been dying to read Desmond's adventure in star wars, but all fics i found were not finished ; (

Could you give me some inspiration plzzzzz

You’ve probably already read this but just in case, esama’s Sailing the Stars is complete so if you want a Desmond-centric fic set during the Clone Wars, go check that out.

So I was thinking where I would punt Desmond into the Star Wars ‘verse and a part of me wants to punt him during KOTOR’s storyline just because that is my favorite Star Wars game (also, just imagine Desmond being mistaken as Darth Revan with amnesia???) but then I realized after checking AO3 that most seem to be set during the prequel trilogy + clone wars so… may I suggest…

Desmond getting punted into the Star Wars OG Trilogy timeline? XD

In this setup, Desmond could wake up on some random planet and he’s just trying to get back to Earth but no one seems to know where and what Earth is (unless we count non-canon but sssshhhh, let’s make it a mystery).

So Desmond does what he does best, he starts gathering information and keeping himself afloat by stealing from the rich.

Now, to ensure he gets sucked into the main plot, we can do the following:

Desmond gets in contact with Han Solo who suggests he joins the Millenium Falcon after Han realizes Desmond has a knack for seeing danger before it approaches and he suggests that Desmond would have a better chance of finding this ‘Earth’ planet of his if he joins them since they do travel everywhere.

Desmond has the habit of being a stowaway whenever he wanted to go off-planet and the Millenium Falcon was simply the next ship he boarded. Old Ben is the one who noticed him when he was just hiding and waiting for Han to finish his business in Tatooine because Desmond didn’t really feel like getting sand all over.

Desmond ends up owning the cantina where Han ends up shooting Greedo and he goes on the run because that incident caused the Imperial soldiers to snoop around the cantina and Desmond, technically, owned the cantina… sorta illegally… So he hitched a ride on the Millenium Falcon since he figured Han owed him… without anyone knowing he was even there until Old Ben saw him.

Unorganized Notes:

Desmond has been assassinating the really bad ones on whichever planet he’s been on. That’s why he mainly hitches rides. On the other hand, if he was the owner of the cantina, he had taken over the cantina to have a ‘base of operation’ while gathering information he can use as part of his plan to assassinate Jabba the Hutt.

Desmond could totally be a Jedi if you want him to be but anyone who trains him will notice the darkness inside him. While he’s mostly chill, he’s an Assassin and that means he would be willing to use anything to finish his mission and survive. He won’t be tempted by the dark side though. It would be more like… he can control the dark side… but that makes him dangerous.

Desmond and Luke would have a more or less brother-like friendship. He could easily influence Luke to be less honorable though, especially if he stays with Luke during the whole ‘Yoda training’ part of his character arc.

On the other hand, Desmond and Han would have a more of ‘you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours’ kind of business relationship that would thaw to a bash brothers type. He, Han, and Chewie share one brain cell and it bounces off each of them. If Desmond had joined them before the start of the trilogy’s story, Desmond would be their lookout and their ‘bodyguard’. He’s fine with all the smuggling as people do need to eat but… if a really bad person dies during one of their runs, well… Han will definitely say ‘no love lost’.

Desmond and Leia would start with snark-to-snark combat which would later turn to respect and trust. If Desmond stayed with Leia and Han’s side of the storyline instead of Luke’s, he’d be more of the shadow of the rebellion.

Desmond will definitely build a Brotherhood during the rebellion and they would be more into clandestine and guerilla tactics. He and Leia won’t always see eye to eye but Leia knows that Desmond’s plans would benefit the rebellion.

Desmond doesn’t see Leia as a princess. She’s a leader of the Rebellion first and foremost and Desmond definitely hides whenever the topic of making him and the Brotherhood officially part of the Rebellion comes up.

If Desmond learns about Darth Vadar’s true relationship with both Luke and Leia, he would have flashbacks of Haytham and, since he doesn’t know who Anakin Skywalker truly was, he would warn Luke that ‘Some people cannot be reasoned with nor can they be saved.’, hoping that Luke wouldn’t feel the same pain Ratonhnhaké:ton felt after killing Haytham.

He would still be glad to learn he had been wrong after Luke tells him how Anakin Skywalker saved him in the end and tell Luke that at least he had a ‘less shitty dad’ than Desmond.

Ben/Jacen would probably end up as an Assassin with Uncle Desmond instead of a Sith… just saying.

#anakin solo can be whatever he wants though #for those who don’t know #in the expanded universe (or whatever they’re calling it nowadays)#leia and han had three children: jaina jacen and anakin #idk #assassins feels more sith-ish than jedi-ish for me #desmond would definitely want a lightsaber though lol #assassin's creed #desmond miles #teecup writes/has a plot #fic idea: assassin's creed #ask and answer #fic idea: star wars #fic idea: crossover

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clevermird · 4 months

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Review: The Old Republic: Revan by Drew Karpyshyn

I remember that back when this book was released, it was pretty controversial in the Star Wars fandom. Reading it now, I see why.

The Old Republic: Revan follows two storylines: the first is that of former Sith Lord turned Jedi hero Revan who, years after the events of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, begins having strange dreams about a dead planet and sets out with Canderous Ordo to figure out what happened to him during the years that he can’t remember. Meanwhile, in an empire hidden in the Unknown Regions, Sith Lord Scourge investigates a series of murder attempts on a high-ranked Sith and begins to learn the truth about the man who sits on the throne.

The first thing that needs to be said about this book is that, while it makes a token effort to be accessible to Star Wars fans who aren’t familiar with the KOTOR games, it really assumes that readers have played at least the first one – characters and their relationships are given perfunctory introductions, important backstory is glossed over, and the story will generally have little impact if you don’t already know and care about this particular sub-era of the Star Wars universe. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing (it is a sequel/spinoff, after all), but it’s worth noting.

With that being said, Drew Karpyshyn is an excellent writer. Even when little was happening in the story, his prose kept me engaged and the book was very easy to read. While the main cast is somewhat limited by what was established in the games (Revan, in particular, suffers from the bland “everyman” issues that result when writers are trying to adapt an RPG protagonist whose story is designed to be as flexible for player choice as possible), many of the new minor characters introduced are well-drawn and interesting for the amount of screen time they get. The fight scenes are fun and there’s a cool setpiece or two.

It’s probably not much of a spoiler to say that the two storylines eventually converge. Around that point, we get a reveal that casts several major events from the KOTOR games in a new light and provides an explanation to some mysteries left unsolved in those games. I really was not a fan of this reveal. In my opinion, it cheapens several characters’ choices and makes one of the most interesting moral questions of the games moot. I also was not a fan of the ending, which I feel treats one of my favorite characters from the games poorly by denying them a resolution to their character arc in favor of turning them into support for Revan’s story.

My overall thoughts on this book are hard to summarize, but I’d say that it’s a well-written, engaging book that falls apart more the longer I think about it. A must-read for Star Wars expanded universe completionists or for those desperate to know what happened after KOTOR, but confusing for those not familiar with the games and an ultimately unsatisfying addition to the universe.

Rating: 6/10

#mird reviews stuff #star wars extended universe #swtor #kotor #kotor spoilers #drew karpyshyn #darth revan

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