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pandoratheprocrasticreator · 6 months

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discoursedeity · 2 months

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WRIGHT IS DOWN 4 POINTS

Phoenix Wright is a literal icon in gaming and heck even in anime since the show came out in like 2018 or whatever. We can't be letting a juggernaut like him down like this guys. PLEASE Ace Attorney fans, go vote Wright! This is just too sad seeing him losing like this.

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aaoneoffstournament · 8 months

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ROUND THREE, POLL EIGHT

#round three #ace attorney #phoenix wright ace attorney #pw aa #aa1 #ace attorney dual destinies #aa5 #aa dd #the monstrous turnabout #rise from the ashes #jinxie tenma #lana skye

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willing-but-not-able · 10 months

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So, I have a playlist of no commentary longplays to help me sleep and I've recently added Phoenix Wright DD and SoJ (since no one has the other games in a full longplay) and that got me wanting to talk about Phoenix Wright and some of my favorite things, small issues and big issues with the games.

I have played every game (that's localized) so I wanted to start this little series(?) with my disappointment with Dual Destinies.

There will be a spoiler warning for all these posts just in case someone hasn't played the game, so here's that warning.

It's no secret that everyone in the fandom pretty much hates Dual Destinies. You're either annoyed at the strange/weak plot or tired of how hand-holdy the games were.

For me, I didn't mind the game holding my hand except for that consult button because if the game had a good enough plot I can see why they would have added features/dialogue to help players.

Playing this game as a kid, there were some cases I'd be stuck on for days and I can easily see how interest would be lost if you got severely stuck in a case.

So, the hand holding wasn't too much of an issue.

My problem was Athena.

Now whether you love or hate her, I can't bring myself to like Athena because of how her plot was dismantled from her very inception.

When first playing DD, I knew Athena was gonna be a character that wouldn't be very fun to watch. Unlike Edgeworth or Apollo (before SoJ), I could tell Athena was gonna have a "one game plot" and that she would disappear right after.

However, she didn't and this is the issue with Athena.

Athena has no more plot.

The writers essentially boxed her in a corner by giving her "I need to save my friend" as her main plot. When she should have "I want to save anyone who's been wrongfully convicted."

Especially with the climate in the Justice System irl, being riddled with holes and other loopholes that get innocent people locked up and guilty people free, it would have been perfect to have Athena--and her ability--to be focused on saving people who truly are innocent but were convicted anyways. An appeals kind of game, so to say.

However, that didn't happen and instead her entire goal when she was first introduced was to save Blackquill.

Now, don't get me wrong, Blackquill is one of my favorite characters, but it's simply because I like his design and personality. As a writer, his inclusion isn't my favorite thing ever.

He's a plot device for Athena and once he was "solved" what happened to Athena? She lost her plot.

SoJ pretty much proved that with what is arguably the worst case in PW history.

Turnabout Storyteller was a long haul to get through. Not only did it feel like a game of unwinnable tennis, but it also felt like I was going through a tutorial for the second time. This case also is a perfect exemplification of why Athena is now ruined.

She has no room to grow. No hardships attached to the courtroom and not even a difficult case to work with. When Athena's "Blackquill" plot was solved in DD she has nothing else to carry her and winds up becoming an aimless character.

She's just there to replace Apollo or Phoenix.

Unfortunately, I actually hate that she is this way because it would have been really cool to see a character who can actually tell if people are being truthful or not and we could have circled back to Kristoph Gavin and found out what he was hiding and why.

Instead, we get Athena's black Psyche locks and that fell flat on its face.

I wanna rundown why that didn't hit as well as it should:

We just met Athena and have no record of her history. Even if she tells us, it's just that-- something we heard. Even with the tragedy of her mother, we didn't find anything out about that until several cases later when it's impact isn't gonna hit as hard.

Why the death of her mother isn't as impactful as it should be lies with the game itself. A bombing in a courthouse happens, the leader of a village is murdered, the death of a lawyer takes place, and someone is on death roe. There are just way bigger things going on.

Yes, the death of a parent is severely heartbreaking, but that's the only reason we feel for it in the game because it is traumatic to lose a parent.

To explain what I mean, it's similar to stories you hear on the internet of people who have suffered the loss of a loved one or family member. Yes, we're upset and our heart goes out to them, but once we get off our phone the impact of that event no longer concerns us. This is why writers need to know how to impact a reader/viewer (or in this case a player) so we feel the same gut wrenching feeling the character is feeling. We shouldn't chalk it up to "oh, that's really bad, so I understand why she's sad."

If it were me, I would have liked to see Athena with a "trilogy" of her own since Apollo is kind of beyond saving at this point.

For Athena, she should have had Turnabout Storyteller as her first case. Without Blackquill, of course, and gone through a case where someone is frozen with fear seeing the death of someone they considered a parental figure. Then, through all the Turnabout Big Top's she would end up with a firm disposition. "I have to save the lives of those who are crying out their innocence." Then, in her second (or in my opinion) the third game, we're introduced to Blackquill and their relationship. The friendship they had and the end it's about to meet. If we got even a little bit of characterization from her, it would have made saving Blackquill all the more satisfying. Athena could have easily carried three games with her ability and her background, but instead it was boiled down to one game and forgotten in the next.

Phoenix Wright games always have very interesting characters and I find myself thinking about them a lot, so this was just one, but I'm sure you'll find me talking about someone else sonner rather than later...

~Thanks for reading~

#phoenix wright #pw aa #phoenix wright ace attorney #phoenix wright aa #dual destinies spoilers #spirit of justice #athena cykes #athena

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dae-seeme-rollin · 2 years

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Apollo Justice: always ready to fucking deck someone

#as he should #some of the witnesses really are assholes lol #had these things not be held in court im sure he would’ve thrown hands so many times #dual destinies #turnabout academy #pw aa #apollo justice

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fiestasaur · 4 months

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#phoenix wright #ace attorney #gyakuten saiban #im throwing a bomb in the fandom #trials and tribulations #dual destinies #tgaac

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attorneys-against-court-violence · 5 months

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In hindsight, I think one of the reasons why DD feels like such a weird follow-up to AJ is that it borrows vibes more from the PW Trilogy than AJ.

You have the parallels to significant cases from the Wright trilogy - DL-6, SL-9, and Matt Engarde's case spring to mind. It's been said that Simon has parallels to Godot and Means is a carbon-copy of Manfred's personal philosophy. The general focus on Phoenix and how he affects the world around him also make DD feel more like a PW game than an AJ one.

I've always thought Athena and Simon's plight was a darker twist on Phoenix and Edgeworth's story in the grand scheme of things; a dear friend losing himself to the corrupted legal system and fighting tooth-and-nail to see them again, to save them from that darkness. How the trauma of losing one's parent causes one of them to lose hope and accept their guilt, the only salvation being a ridiculous leap of faith that somehow lands on its feet. Dual Destinies is, at its core (and I do consider their story to be the core of this game), irrevocably seeped in PW's ideas and narrative beats. Not AJ's.

I do love this in isolation, bringing the things we know from the series prior and twisting them into something different. Hell, it could even be a fitting return for Phoenix post-disbarment to rear up a new student going down a similar - if darker - road to his own... if AJ didn't already exist with ideas-galore to follow through on. A game that has a notably different vibe to Phoenix's own adventures, one that doesn't quite carry through to DD (which feels more in-line with the tone established in PW, just taken to extremes in places (for better and worse)).

I can see why people would prefer it to follow a hypothetical AJ trilogy instead of being smack-dab in the middle of the one we have. It could have been a return to form in that way, similar to how Phoenix returns to the fray in that game (one that can be earned over the course of a trilogy instead of in-between games). It's not that it doesn't have its ties to AJ - Apollo's attitude to Phoenix makes more sense with it, as well as his descent into paranoid doubt. Defense attorneys like Means being bolstered by Phoenix's fall from grace, that it would contribute to people's growing doubt over the (frankly abysmal) legal system, is literally in the text. It's the focus on Phoenix, his return to the defense bench along with vibes more in line with PW:AA, that makes people feel like it doesn't connect at all. If it was focused on Apollo and his new whacky assistant and Phoenix filled a more Mia-esque mentor role, the two may have stuck together in people's heads better. It already has a worthy follow-up story in exploring his growing distrust of the people around him (partly thanks to Phoenix himself if you can believe it); the body is there, but the heart feels like its in the wrong spot.

To say nothing of how people feel that Athena and Simon's story is plenty on its own given room to breathe.

#turn your thinking around!#tl;dr - the focus on phoenix wright over the newer characters dilluted their stories #nothing you haven't heard before but i've been thinking about this ''parallel vibes'' thing for a while

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biohazard2017 · 11 months

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ftr i am on thelast case of investigations 2!

#nitzie.txt

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arielluva · 1 year

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im asking favorite over best just bc i feel that might get more interesting results than asking for which one is objectively the best, but you can still vote for whichever one you think is the best if you want to

also didn't have room for the pl vs pw one so if thats your favorite then sorry :(

#ace attorney #polls #personally im torn between questioned and overtaken but i think overtaken takes the cake for me

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characteroulette · 9 months

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Some actually organised PL vs PW thoughts!!

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Having experienced Layton games now, I can fully see how much PL vs PW is struggling to fit the Ace Attorney playstyle into itself hahaha

It's certainly impressive!! And you'd think it's a good match!! Both have point and click walk around sections, both have dialogue and flavour text as their main means for telling their story.

But where Layton games have puzzles, Ace Attorney has trials.

And for whatever reason, this ended up being WAY more difficult than it should have been.

For some reason, all of the text is paced really weirdly. You can see the Layton dev team saw how AA games would time their dialogue to replicate the feel of actual talking and tried their hand at that, but didn't quite make it. Often, there are just pauses long enough to be awkward before the sentence continues. To me, it reads as everyone talking really slow all of a sudden in this game (because Layton and Luke dialogue does this, too. It's not just Phoenix and Maya) and the pauses are in kinda unnatural spots as well. (At first I thought maybe my emulator was causing this, but nah, the cartridge itself does this, so this is hard coded into the game. It's just weird!! It's like their voices are just off enough for me to notice without actually being off!!)

OH RIGHT and another thing: the sudden voice acting!! This is par for the course in Layton games. Important scenes are voiced! But in Ace Attorney, they only got voice acting for their shouts and in Dual Destinies and onwards. Suddenly hearing voices read what look to be mundane lines is really cool!! I want Ace Attorney mainline games to actually pick this up, please.

But anyway, trials. Your evidence and profiles both are presented in an unfamiliar familiar way. Like yeah, that is how evidence looks and how the profiles are supposed to work, but there's just enough missing that it becomes kinda uncanny valley. Your badge isn't amongst your line of evidence. Profiles don't state how old that person is. You don't have access to either of these things outside of the trials. It's uncanny valley Phoenix Wright! It's uncanny valley Ace Attorney!! I can only imagine how a predominantly Layton fan feels about all this new and unfamiliar stuff is getting shoved into their lil puzzle game.

Pressing and Presenting still work as intended, but also!! You have an entirely different menu available to you at all times: Layton's trunk.

(We're not gonna talk about how items and mysteries Layton gets remain in there right now. That's also jarring to me as a predominantly Ace Attorney person; why do I keep Layton's things and thoughts and why can I not use them in trials?? It's because this is a Layton game. It's why he's billed first in the title. First a Layton game, with added Ace Attorney elements.)

Anyway yeah those are my observations so far. Puzzles are still jarring to me, but less so when taking that important detail into account (this is a Layton game, first and foremost). I adore Maya in this game she is straight up a creature of chaos XD

#Momo writes stuff #Momo talks about video games #PL vs PW #professor layton vs phoenix wright #Talkin bout game mechanics #As I usually do #Playing this WITHOUT any PL knowledge was SO JARRING #I was INCREDIBLY lost for the first part of this game lol #I think I've settled into it better now #(even if I can't navigate the map to save my life)#Ah right #Spoilers #Just a bit

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buttclench-ryugazaki · 10 months

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tgaa 1 + 2 final rambling notes

the neutral/negative:

did not like some of the solutions in the cross examination phase because i could easily predict what the prosecution's damning rebuttal would be, meaning the contradiction felt weak even as i presented it. and that will happen in every single aa game without fail, i just felt like it happened too frequently to me, personally. it works for 1-3 where defending an obviously guilty client is supposed to feel shitty and like you're going insane that he isn't being caught, but not so much when you wanna feel smart and triumphant (before immediately getting knocked down again) y'know

dance of deduction phases are stylistically very cool but far, far too easy. i never failed one once because all it is is playing i-spy with 360 degree camera movement and a limited number of possible answers. i enjoy sholmes being insane, but it gets pretty tiresome after a while because there is no challenge whatsoever

cross examining multiple witnesses and pressing ones based on how they react to others: a mechanic that apparently rolled over from PL vs PW. i thought there would be more of a challenge here. the sound cue is VERY OBVIOUS. i assumed their reactions would be more subtle and you would actively have to search for them (case 1-5 with gregson and milverton whispering amongst themselves is what i'd had in mind), but nope. i also think that not every reaction press should have been moment of plot advancement, as 100% of them are. throw in some red herrings for the player to make them think they've found something important at first and burst their bubble. but DON'T penalize because that would be too frustrating, reward them with funny dialogue at least

jury summation phase: i thought i didn't mind doing them until 2-4/5 came around and i found myself relieved that i didn't have to contend with the jury, which is intentionally supposed to be exasperating in how thoughtless its decision-making is (aside from 2-3 with the magician and scientist jurors who actually have some valuable insight). probably the best of the new gameplay phases mechanically, but i don't think i care for the execution. ryunosuke knows, the prosecution knows, you the player know that you're just stalling for time by making the whole trial go on a tangent. i applaud the way reinforces how desperate it feels to flimsily grasp at straws ("we can't trust shamspeare's testimony because he's stealing gas from his cheapskate landlord and thus a liar") but it does annoy me the player to not directly be working towards getting a greater picture of the mystery

examining evidence is required to advance the plot more frequently than in prior games. before, the player would get some flavor text to give them hints about how the evidence should be presented, but it doesn't necessarily trigger anything in the game's code. it doesn't bother me because because i like to poke and prod, thus i examine (mostly) everything. but for others this could be really frustrating if you know why the evidence is contradictory, without examining. a happy medium would be that examining still updates the description but the evidence itself is viable even if you hadn't examined it (for certain pieces, not all) 5a. at the end of 2-5 when you're supposed to present klint's last will and testament, i presented the asogi sword instead because it told me the will was inside. i forgot to examine it and get the note out first. in classic aa, i think my answer would have been the correct one. that's an example of when i think i should have been given some leeway

they give me "gallery" feature in "extra contents" but it does not lead to a menu of CGs and animated cutscenes? why? dual destinies has that feature. it's a must by the standards any modern visual novel game

positives:

the twists, they're good. not all of them are foreshadowed that well or at all, but i enjoy them regardless. things like professor mikotoba turning out to be sholmes' actual partner and kazuma dad being the professor, because we don't even really learn about kazuma's father until the very moment it's revealed. (i predicted that klint was iris's birth father but not because of any informed reasoning; we didn't know he was married until 2-5 and it's not like both her being born and him dying 10 years ago necessitates a relation). these things can still be set up as future plot points without necessarily foreshadowing who is involved

they don't try to catch you off-guard with plot events like, defending van zieks. it's not just a rehash of turnabout goodbyes. you knew it was going to happen eventually; the reaper of the bailey's reputation as a possible murderer constantly comes up, and you know he must be innocent. it's still a decent twist and a good way to conclude the plot line they introduced so early, but the vibe i get is that they didn't try to act like what they were doing was crazy and unprecedented, because a plot line doesn't have to be for it to be good

they really made the world of this game so much bigger, by setting it in two countries, involving international british-japanese relations and politics, the assassination conspiracy and deeper, given the talk of xenophobia, industrialization, classism, crime, life in the city, corruption within the police and the courts, god there's so much. intentionally or unintentionally, ace attorney has always been about the law itself and how it should be utilized to protect the innocent/find the truth, and how it frequently fails to do just that. aa-verse 1900s britain isn't affected by the dystopian, 99% conviction rate and expedited 3-day trials like 2016 japanifornia, but it does have its own legal issues to contend with and i like how they manifested

pacing the hugeness of this plot over the course of two full games was a good call. we know it's possible to do a full arc in 4 to 5 cases but they said, nah. we're going bigger. and not doing THAT THING!!!! aa games are so aggravating for where they don't reference past games directly, only through vague allusion. game 2 does not dare pretend that it's not a sequel; who would be the poor idiot playing Resolve without having played Adventures? (i did comment about how Resolve still gave me a mostly unskippable tutorial, which is just plain silly) but anyway i do understand why japanese fans were so incensed over game 1 ending on a cliffhanger with no official word of a sequel. the game is feels incomplete without Resolve. they shouldn't have reviewbombed it, because it was a good game, but i understand. it's a duology through and through

the characters. i don't think there's a single one i actively dislike, and if i did i've forgotten them. i was very charmed playing as ryunosuke; he's a mess and master of deadpan like his descendant but perhaps... cuter? more deliberately written as naive and ignorant, naturally because he's not actually a law student. and he's afraid of ghosts and aliens. i enjoy that he's more willing to crack jokes to contrast susato playing the straight man, who is the most serious and informed of all the teen girl assistants. she might even be my favorite, now! aa is such a big franchise with too many characters to count, so it's difficult not to view these characters in comparison to their predecessors. but i think they do a good job making the dna of these characters apparent (kazuma and van zieks both having shades of edgeworth, for example) without making me feel like i'm getting the same archetype and the same guy over and over again

#i think i will leave this untagged

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fruitsamuraii23 · 3 years

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