#the things I've seen on weibo...

[zhansww]

#'he was here to pick us up' #wang yibo #2024 #bazaar #formed police unit #weibo #video #the look on dd's face at the end #is the cutest thing I've seen in ever #God bless

[rainbowsky]

Sorry I've taken so long to address this, I've had a very busy day and didn't have time to finish this post (which I started yesterday).

I'm talking, of course, about the incredibly controversial situation surrounding DD right now. I've gotten some messages about it so I figured I'd give my thoughts in a bigger post so that I don't have to keep repeating myself.

(CW: racism, spoilers FPU)

I know that by now most people are aware of the situation, but I'm going to start from square one for those who are just catching up on the topic.

There is a scene in Formed Police Unit where Chinese UN peacekeeping troops need to rescue a group of citizens who are surrounded by terrorists. In order to accomplish this they disguise themselves as people from the community. This being Africa, the troops were disguised using blackface.

Yes, I am saying that DD and his castmates appear in the film in blackface.

I am not going to post a picture of that here. It's just something I can't post on my blog. I understand that many of you will want to see for yourself so I'll link a clip of the scene, which was posted on Weibo. Please be aware before clicking - this is full-on blackface. Always take care of yourselves, and if you think it might be upsetting to you don't click. You don't need to see it to be a 'good fan'.

Background

For those who may not know, this movie was filmed years ago, in 2021. During those years I have seen many anti attacks against DD, claiming that he is racist and has worn blackface. Here's the photo that was circulating back then.

At the time I thought the makeup that he was wearing was likely anti-reflective black paint or camouflage paint such as is used by snipers (which he played in the film). I assumed that he was wearing his own hoodie over part of a military costume, because he was wearing a cammo shirt and what might have been combat trousers.

I was certainly not expecting full-on blackface from this movie.

There's no getting around it - this is extremely difficult to look at.

Blackface is widely viewed as offensive and racist. It shouldn't be hard to understand why. Putting on another person's ethnicity like a costume is deeply insensitive, particularly when you consider that BIPOC (black, indigenous, and other people of color) are so frequently targeted, exploited and marginalized. For those in positions of privilege and power to put on the appearance of the people who they oppress and exploit... it's just shocking and awful.

Blackface is most frequently talked about in an American context, but it's actually a problem globally - including in China. More on all that here.

The film

I have not actually seen the film, so I don't know much about the context beyond what is being discussed in the fandom. As I said earlier, in the film a group of UN police officers need to infiltrate an area in the community and take on disguises in order to do so.

In promotional media this film is being presented as based on true stories from real missions*. It seems the situation in question really happened on a Chinese peacekeeping mission, and the UN troops disguised themselves as black citizens in order to infiltrate and extract the endangered captives.

*I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this because it doesn't change how I feel it should have been handled.

This is important context that is being conveniently left out of much of the backlash about this situation. People are outright claiming that DD plays a black person in the movie - that he wore blackface to perform a role that a black actor could have played. This simply isn't true, and people making these claims are antis and liars. There's simply no excuse for not knowing the full context.

Having said that, I don't really think it matters how it ended up in the film. I do not think there is such a thing as a palatable or appropriate use of blackface. In this day and age it is nearly universally understood to be racist, and it's extremely controversial.

I can understand if they were trying to be accurate to the mission that they were portraying, but surely there are other ways they could have accomplished this scene (perhaps with the clothing but not the blackface). 'Historical accuracy' isn't as important as cultural sensitivity, not by any stretch of the imagination. In the interest of respecting audiences they could have adapted the scene to make the use of blackface unnecessary.

I really see no excuse for anything like this in 2024.

Audience reactions

Chinese sensibilities around these topics are very different from what we are used to in the West.

According to fan repos audiences initially didn't recognize any of the actors, and once it became apparent that they were in disguise, laughter erupted around the room. In fact, most fans are laughing a lot at the photos and video even on social media (although some Chinese netizens have been upset by it and have voiced complaints to various stakeholders).

It is also being widely discussed on Chinese social media as an exciting scene of heroism in the film.

I feel the need to point out that the laughter and mockery is a huge part of the harm, here. As if it's not bad enough that these actors are performing in blackface and presenting a perversion of black ethnicity, it also becomes an opportunity for audiences to mock and disrespect black people. It's become an opportunity for social media to be filled with racist jokes and mockery.

Roadshow statements

There have been some clips circulating of PR and roadshow moments with black cast members and some black audience members who have spoken up in support of the film and to thank the cast and crew for telling the story. Here's one example.

International fans have been dismissing those statements as ignorant or coerced, which I think is offensive and deeply fucked up. There's no planet on which I'm going to - with a totally straight face - say that a black person's response to the movie is not legitimate just because it doesn't comport with my own view.

This is a complex issue and there are inevitably going to be a lot of different perspectives. I hope people won't exacerbate the problem by supplanting black voices on this issue with their own, no matter what's being said. If there's any manipulation going on, let's assume it was in their choosing supportive black figures to speak for the film rather than claim that the black spokespeople are insincere.

China has a lot of issues with racism, there's no doubt about it. It's a huge part of why so many people try to whiten their skin, or why they mock each other when their skin gets tanned/darker. There is a lot of sinister, fucked up stuff going on in China around race - both in the country and in their dealings with other countries.

But we can't claim to speak for black people in China, particularly when they are speaking for themselves! I would hope this is extremely obvious!

Where's DD in all this?

It's understandable that bystanders will react to what they're seeing and might immediately deem it unacceptable - and DD along with it. Their reactions are valid, but as fans I hope that we can look at him with a bit more empathy. I hope that we can take a moment to try to see things from his perspective.

DD has been interested in and an avid fan of black culture since he was a small child. We've all seen how much he immerses himself in hip hop, street dance and the accompanying music and fashion. And yes, he's been accused of cultural appropriation in the past for wearing locs and durags.

However, I think fans need a bit of perspective here to get a sense of where DD might be coming from. Here's a guy who loves black culture, who has close friends who are black, who regularly works with black artists and who supports black artists, in a culture where racism against black people is prevalent and often extreme.

I think DD would probably be amazed to hear the accusations of racism against him. He likely has very few people in his orbit who are anywhere near as supportive of or as closely connected to black people as he is. He likely stands out in his circle as being particularly into black culture and connected with black artists, and probably regularly faces ignorant questions or digs from people around him about his close association with black artists and culture.

Not just because of racism alone, but also due to the racist parallels the government tends to draw between black culture, street dance, hip hop, etc. and criminality/moral degradation*. It's likely that ignorant people in his orbit have expressed concern or wariness toward him because of these associations.

*That is, until breakdancing became an Olympic sport, then they were suddenly onboard with some of it.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have a lot of learning to do (and if this situation becomes what I think it might become, he'll have a big opportunity to do so), I'm just saying that his ignorance isn't mean-spirited. He's coming at this from a totally different angle than any of us are, and he is immersed in a totally different cultural perspective than our own. In his world, his interest likely makes him a bit of an anomaly.

So those painting him as a horrible racist... it's just not how I see it.

The element of choice

I've heard many people say that DD 'didn't have any choice' about this role, that turning it down would not have been an option or that he would be under some kind of threat if he didn't take this role. I don't agree with that characterization of things. I don't think it's quite as 'gun to the head' as a lot of fans paint it.

I think it's more likely that he simply didn't realize that the role would involve blackface when he accepted it, or that he thought that blackface in this context - to infiltrate a terrorist cell and save civilians - would be fine. We don't need to depict China as forcibly compelling actors to take unwanted roles if we want to make sense of this. There are simpler, more logical explanations.

DD wouldn't have been the one deciding how to depict the scene - he didn't have that power in 2021 - but I also doubt he would have had a major problem with it given everything we know.

We must overcome our Western tendency to see things only from our own perspective. This has a totally different cultural context in China, and the voices we listen to about it should not be issuing exclusively from white faces that are not at ground zero of this situation.

Final thoughts

This film has had me worried from day one. I think most people have been expecting it to be full of offensive portrayals and propagandistic fuckery. There are so many ways in which a Chinese film about the UN is potentially a sticky, tricky mess. This blackface thing is likely just one problem on a towering pile of problems.

However, I'm not going to sugarcoat this - this has the potential to be a real shitshow for DD, and I am concerned. Especially if this film gets an international release.

We need to brace ourselves, because I don't think this is going to just disappear. DD has endorsements with international brands, and this could definitely cause backlash for those brands unless the issue is addressed and the scenes removed. There's no planet on which brands like Chanel and Lacoste can afford to have one of their spokespeople plastered everywhere in blackface.

If this film gets an international release and those scenes are left intact, it's possible he will lose some brands.

Let's hope it doesn't come to that, but let's face it - things like this have consequences, and that's why it's so important for producers and artists to be sensitive about what they're portraying.

While I think there's some endorsement risk here for DD, and the potential loss of some international fans, I want to be clear about one thing: I don't think this will threaten his career overall. In China this just isn't an issue in the way it is internationally.

I do hope the film team addresses this issue in some way, ideally by removing the scenes. They just finished doing a massive edit to remove ZZH from the film, surely they can handle something like this. But let's not hold our breath...

Everyone has the right to make up their minds about DD. As I've often said, being a turtle isn't for the faint of heart. That's not just because turtles are frequent targets for bullies, or because we have to constantly live with uncertainty and doubt.

Being an international turtle also isn't for the faint of heart because there are a lot of cultural and political minefields to navigate, and many ideological differences to adapt to. There's a huge learning curve and a lot of unknowns, and turtles who want to survive have to make peace with the fact that we and the boys are from different worlds in many ways. We may never know where they really stand on issues that are important to us.

However, in this case I feel confident that I know where DD's heart is on this issue. He simply doesn't hold hatred, disrespect or disdain for black people. Quite the contrary.

I think we'd all just feel a lot better if he had a good grasp on how to be a better ally.

And while we're waiting for that, I think we should put our money where our mouths are and learn more about these issues ourselves, both in China and locally at home. We want DD to be a better person; let's be better people too.

#bjyx #yizhan #ggdd controversies #please rebloggers don't tag with his name or the name of the film #i don't want this outside the turtle circle - the fan wars are horrific

[princess-from-another-galaxy]

I watched both parts of Lucas documentary and am so heartbroken. This incident has changed him so much, he's unrecognizable and in not the best way. This incident has killed his spirit and light you can tell he went through major depression and struggles mentally still. His self confidence has disappeared, he can't hold eye contact anymore. He's probably never going to be the same again. It's like night and day.

Can you please elaborate in just the part where Lucas exposed these crazy fans? I've followed the incident since day one but faded off so don't know how he exposed them at some point. Some people are saying that is the apology he is giving rather then admitting the rumours so It'd be great for that elaboration if not quick summary. I missed out on that time frame and would be so proud if he tried to expose the crazy stalkers. They're fkin insane, it's repulsive behavior.

Lucas (even by his own admission) had always been rather rude and aggressive with sasaengs (as he should!). A few days before the scandal broke out, he actually posted a pic on bubble of flymetothemoon (there's a 0 instead of an o there somewhere, but I can never remember where... sorry).

Anyway, after that that's when the rumors started. Originally just that he was a gold digger and cheated. SM did what they always do and made him give a vague apology. The day after, another accuser came out saying he allegedly also gaslight his gf's, I don't believe it was ever clarified how or about what he supposedly gaslight them. (Then a dude also came and accused him of dating and cheating).

After that, the dude's account disappeared (right after he said it wasn't true), and after awhile one of the accounts was sold and another turned out to have been a marketing account all along.

And now we're here.

A few hours/a day before the doc dropped, Lucas opened new official social media accounts (for his work as solo artist supposedly), and flymetothem0on was seen on weibo saying things that very clearly gave off the impression that she was directly involved in the scandal.

She is a known NCT sasaeng. Started stalking Mark when he was like 15 (still an SM rookie), has been known to stalk Yangyang, and just recently has began to stalk a member of NCT Wish, who is also a minor. So yeah....

And about what Lucas looks like, he went through a lot, including depression and suicidal thoughts, it's understandable that the experience has changed him. But it seems like his family and friends have his back and as his fans we should try to as well!

Sasaengs have way too much power in the K-pop industry. It's about time people started standing up to those disgusting excuses for people!!

EDIT!

Someone made an actual time-line that is more accurate than my vague recollections of the past few years! So here you go!!!

Also apparently there were multiple sasaengs that made the accusations, I had forgotten about that cause fttm0 is the worst one

#kpop #nct #wayv #nct wish #sm rookies #lucas wong #wong yukhei #huang xuxi

[etirabys]

The only China-related blog I read posted something that deviates from its usual "just translate the top posts on Weibo" post format. It's about the position of women in China:

https://weibo.substack.com/p/feminism-and-the-position-of-women

It and the (extremely fucking dark) post it links to in its second paragraph have been on my mind for several days. I've kept the browser tabs open despite having finished reading & having no desire to reread them.

I found the feminism post illuminating – things I'd 80% understood about the CCP's "strategy" wrt gender snapped into place, and I feel foolish for not having clearly seen that angle before:

The problem, of course, is that the gender ratio in China has been off for a very long time now. Inevitably, there are going to be a lot of men who will never find a wife. And inevitably, those men are going to be precisely the most unstable elements of society—the poorest, working the most menial of jobs, with the least hopes of ever getting promoted, with the least education. Under these circumstances, relying on market forces is not an option. Women would never willingly marry those people when they have perfectly good careers of their own. So the first step, then, is to fuck women out of careers. ...

China is in an equilibrium that it cannot coordinate to get out of: if you have a daughter, you don't want to invest in her when the norms are that her husband will provide for her / that she won't have a career after marriage. If you have a son, you need to to invest in him, because his marital/reproductive prospects aren't great unless he has a job, a car, and an internal passport that lets him live/work in a city, where he can have a future.

It might be a little unbelievable to you, that a country can just sacrifice half its population to stabilise the other half. ... China doesn’t pass laws or enforce laws to protect women for the same reason they don’t pass or enforce laws to protect sweat shop workers. China is competitive on the international stage precisely because it is willing to look the other way while you make a sweat shop of people work unpaid overtime 80 hours a week while you pay them a quarter of minimum wage and don’t give health insurance or retirement benefits. China is competitive on the international stage because it’s willing to look the other way while you dump industrial waste right into the ocean.

#rambl #// china

[ad-hawkeye]

The following is a collection of commentary I've seen on Artem's newest SSS card from Weibo.

[In a top five favorite Artem cards list; aside from Artem's second birthday card, this is the only non-year one entry]: "A heartbeat rediscovered after a long period of disappointment and mediocrity. The world should not become narrow after we are together. I want to talk to you about faith, ideals, and this world that both you and I know is terrible. I want to tear apart the lies of idealism and use the unpleasant truth and the only true love, restructure into stronger each other."

[In a post talking about OP's thoughts on Artem's newest card]: "Everyone should know Zuo Ran's character. He is a tenacious person in the eyes of others. This card gives me the feeling that Zuo Ran [is showing his fragility] without reservation. Seeing this, I think of his powerlessness when he was a child. When he was a child, he was forced to become like this without the company of his parents [...] I feel sorry for Zuo Ran."

[A summary of Artem's newest card]: "... Everyone has a sense of defense. Only in front of the closest and trusted people can we take off our guard and say everything we know. In this world full of all kinds of hypocrisy and everyone wears a mask, trust is a scarce resource, because exposing weaknesses is undoubtedly dangerous, and in front of our lovers, we may also hide some bad things because we care too much about each other's thoughts, so as to "report good news but not bad news", but he doesn't want you to do so..."

So...

My own findings from all of this? Take this with a grain of salt; I have not read the card, but instead have read commentary, summaries, and loosely translated screenshots. It seems like it's a card that finally shows us Artem being vulnerable?

It seems a lawsuit goes wrong on Artem's end, and he asks Rosa to be his attorney (?). Which, holy fuck, big if true.

It emphasizes Artem's full trust in Rosa and her skills despite the incredibly tricky situation.

I'm sorry I genuinely can't believe I'm looking at a recent Artem card where something interesting actually happens. Am I hallucinating?

The card also seemingly goes into detail about Artem's self awareness about how he comes across to others.

Also here are some bonus Artems I found and really liked from the scene where he asks her to be his attorney.

#tears of themis #artem wing #tot spoilers #cn spoilers #addy rambles #at the very least - it seems this one is definitely worth pulling for if only for the interesting plot and theme #which im so excited about

[stoopid-turtle]

On the Acceptance of Unsteady Ground

Throughout this whole dive into turtle world, I've been very conscious of just how LITTLE access to information I have. I'm relying so heavily on English translations and platforms, and most of these are from turtles, so I'm fully aware I'm getting a biased perspective.

I've tried to read stuff from solos or even just neutral third-parties. The neutral parties don't have much depth of information, though, and I found solos heavy on accusations and declarations but light on actual...evidence. And they sometimes use some really nasty rhetoric against the idea that gg and dd might be gay.

Don't get me wrong, turtles get weird too. There's plenty of clearly false rumors, deceptively edited videos, silly stretches of logic, weird ideas of what how people in a relationship would act, etc. But there's at least enough English-speaking turtles that I can find some who are giving open and, as far as I can tell, accurate information (honestly, I find tumblr turtledom better at that then other platforms). I haven't really found a similar pocket of solo fans.

I'm also aware that there's always going to be a limit on how much I can know. I don't speak the language, so I'm always relying on translators. I have limited access to Weibo (even putting aside the language barrier, I'm in text confirmation limbo in actually getting an account), and I have little familiarity with the culture. I don't get a lot of the jokes or references, and stuff may strike me, an English-speaking American, differently than it would someone in China.

Add on top of that the fact that I'm trying to find out purposely obscured information about two celebrities, and, yeah, I'm fully aware that I'm on unsteady ground here. I can do my best, but I'm never going to know anything for certain.

But I've become okay with that.

It took a while. The dissatisfaction with the unknown (and unknowable) is what drove a lot of my early fixation and subsequent fall into the turtle pit. But now, especially after laying out my thoughts, I've reached a zen place with it. I'm 100% certain ggdd were together during filming/promo, and I'm 95% certain they're still together (I had this at 85% originally, but then the whole dd being sick and gg changing his schedule thing happened and I'm just...welp, guess I'm in this confidence interval, then).

Just having that certainty means I can enjoy updates from them without anguishing about "proof" or uncertainty. Oh, gg took the day off on dd's birthday? That's really sweet! I'm not gonna fuss about if it's coincidence ENOUGH to convince me, because I'm already convinced. It's a good place to be.

I typically don't care about celebrities. In fact, I've long been bewildered by celebrity culture here in the US, and I've often been actively annoyed when people assume/expect me to have opinions on things celebrities do. I'm the nerd who doesn't get why the actors get all the attention when the writer or director would be much more interesting.

So the fact that I've gone all fangirlish over two celebrities is bizarre to me, and I appreciate the irony. Well done, me. I attribute some of it to just being able to watch the bts and see their early interactions play out like a story. I find stories compelling, and both gg and dd are charismatic, attractive and have great chemistry. Whatever disdain I have for celebs, I do love a romance.

In my foray into the ggdd world, though, I've also had to learn more about c-ent, and y'all. It's nuts. Like, US entertainment is nuts too, but c-ent ratchets it up to 11. I've been in fandom a long time, and I thought I'd seen some weird stuff, but it's got nothing on c-ent. Just wrapping my head around the culture these guys are in took a lot of learning.

But I appreciate being able to dive into this culture and this country, because I knew very little about China beyond the antagonistic politics. It's been refreshing to get a view on life on the ground in China to humanize the folks there and get a clearer picture of the country.

I started this thing bc I had been spending so much time on Youtube watching clips, and I had thoughts and opinions and nowhere to put them. I already had a tumblr that I use to lurk on some fandoms and I had started following turtles too. I figured tumblr would be a decent place to splurge out my thoughts, so I set up a throwaway account to do so.

I get the vibe that a lot of new turtles come to bjyx through the same route I took? They watch The Untamed on Netflix. They get curious about the show and start watching some clips on YT. Next thing you know, they have 3 playlists full of purported "proof of love" and they need a whiteboard to connect everything together and their wife thinks they've gone completely bonkers supports them in all their oddities.

Like, I was really confused by turtles at first. I was just trying to watch bts videos on YouTube and I didn't know what bjyx meant, but the videos with the label were weird and had strange disclaimers that they were "only for turtles" and I had no clue what that even meant.

My confusion continued as I tried to read more. The fake story disclaimer convention is hella confusing as an outsider, and my first impression was that turtles were kinda crazy. The videos I saw gave overviews of candies without context, and some of them explicitly said they were proof of Yizhan love while still having that fake story disclaimer. Basically, it was a big confusing environment, and it's why I resisted buying into bjyx so hard for so long. It all seemed delulu.

But in reading more, I guess part of that is the point? Recognizing that gg and dd are in a vulnerable position should their relationship ever come out, having so much noise to muddy the waters makes a twisted, clownish sense. I don't know who came up with that convention or if it just kinda happened (is it a normal thing in c-ent? I don't know enough about celebrity fandoms), but hats off, I guess.

With the supertopic recently hitting 4 million active fans, there's something heartening about such a depth of support for the guys. I'm not naive enough to think all 4 million (plus international fans) are allies to LGBT folk in general, but it surely means something to ggdd to have that sort of support for their relationship. Honestly, it means something to me, as a random gay chick on the other side of the world, to see a gay couple get that kinda of support behind them.

I started watching the bts because I was afraid there'd be a lot of cynical homophobia on the set or some evidence of all the male cast being icked out by the whole thing. Instead, I got gg, who was so passionate about WWX being gay. I love that everybody knew they were telling a love story with as explicitly as they could get away with. I love that the guys wanted more Wangxian scenes and that the cast and crew made "everyday is everyday" jokes in a non-mocking way. I'm glad that the whole shoot seemed like such a positive environment for the cast and crew to being themselves and tell a type of story that they may not be able to be involved with ever again.

So, yes, this is my zen turtle place. When I set up a soapbox for myself, I didn't think too much about the fact that people would respond, but I'm so grateful to have had a chance to talk to some other turtles! Everybody is lovely and thank you for sharing my enthusiasm.

Like I said in the beginning, I don't have the time to keep super-active in the long-term. I had intended to write up my thoughts and poof away. But I do also plan to keep up with gg and dd and turtles, so instead I'm just gonna leave off with the potential for further posts down the line.

I'm not gonna be incredibly active, so please don't expect frequent updates or interactions from me. But if I have more Yizhan thoughts I'll pop up again with a post (I mean, I do have lots more thoughts, but nothing energizing enough to write about), or I'll leave a comment somewhere if I have something I simply must say. I'm also open to responding to asks about the timeline or anything else. And if I ever do stumble across anything groundbreaking with regards to the timeline, I'll probably add that in, because I'm particular about things being complete.

So thanks for being so welcoming! It's been a joy to clown around and make up completely fictional stories with everybody here. 🤡🐢🙇🏼

#yizhan #bjyx #gg and dd keep being ridiculous and it makes me ridiculous #also always gonna read moar fanfic #rooting for them #waiting for that tell-all book

[fouryearsofshades]

Hi! Sorry to bother you, I noticed you opened your ask box but the pinned comment still says asks closed so I apologize if its still closed + feel free to ignore this 😅 I was just wondering if you had any resources on a more regional history of clothing? English and Chinese are both okay, I've seen quite a bit regarding class, gender, etc. but I was wondering about style/fabric/design variation by region, influenced by climate, contact/living closely with other nearby cultures, etc.

Hi. Oh yeah ask is closed because I won't bother to research for my ask.

Short answer: No I don't.

People had mentioned that there are regional differences in Ming dynasty clothing, particular the royals in Beijing vs Jiangnan (Suzhou, Hangzhou area - close to Shanghai except Shanghai didn't exist at that time), as in the royals dressed in a more "plainer" style with shorter sleeves and length compared to the Jiangnan area, which was the economy centre. And in Song dynasty, Han clothing in the north (non-Song-dynasty area) was influenced by other cultures, and are wilder and not in a H-shape silhouette. Some bloggers on weibo could also tell regions and periods of Qing dynasty clothing based on their style and embroidery, but I have no idea if there is a book on it. Most books on historical clothing, at least for those talking about pre-Qing clothing (I don't know about Qing dynasty, since there are much more artifacts around but I don't care about Qing fashion), only discussed things by time.

#ask #fouryearsofshades #hanfu #historical clothing #chinese history #feel free to add if you have resources

[zhongwans]

Small update: A CPF fansite, tongmou, that has been inactive since September 2022 recently resurfaced to upload photos of ZSJ's Bangkok concert. Allegedly the account was bought and according to QV (have no idea how she knows about this) they offered "six figures" for it (had to look this up to know what this means 😂)

If you're new to c-ent shenanigans this basically means the real tongmou must have decided to discontinue the fansite (probably unstanned or felt it was no longer profitable enough to keep), then somebody offered money to buy it and she accepted. Big fandom accounts getting bought (often for not so good motives) is really a thing that happens in c-ent fandoms, not just in ours.

What's interesting is that the Bangkok concert photos the account uploaded were censored by weibo.

But the old photos of ZZH (the actual ZZH) in the account are still intact. Weirdly enough this has been happening for a while now on weibo. Photos of ZSJ have a pretty good chance of getting nuked (especially if uploaded by a big account) but ZZH's old photos stay up.

2nd update:

So GJ walked at the Cannes red carpet, looked really good, etc etc, and naturally since c-ent is such an unbearable dumpsterfire of a hellscape where all things good and pure come to die, there was quite a bit of drama online about it. An older lady who happens to have quite a bit of clout in c-ent posted an unflattering photo of GJ on her weibo. People think she did it on purpose (I think so too. She also posted photos of other stars and only GJ got that treatment). So antis etc used that as an opportunity to smear GJ, claiming all photos of him from Cannes were filtered to make him look better than he actually is (apparently, even Ghetty Images and every single photographer in the event are now under the command of the all powerful GJ) and it was basically just your typical braindead c-ent drama. Not really worth getting angry over and honestly the unflattering photo wasn't even bad at all, just that GJ was caught mid-blink.

The interesting bit is that ZSJ fans immediately fawned over this older lady. As QV pointed out, you can only comment on her posts seven days after following her. The whole issue with the photo followed by a wave of hate against GJ plus a hotsearch happened on May 18. We can't comment even if we wanted to because seven days have not yet passed, and yet all those ZSJ "fans" have already flocked to her comments and hyping her up. So were they all already following this woman nobody gives two shits about even before all this? Was her causing trouble for GJ already planned beforehand in collaboration with ZSJ shills? Because it sure looks like it.

At least with this we now know which accounts are probably not ordinary fans, but people who have a much deeper connection with the ZSJ scam and get directives on what to do. But as for what that woman's deal is, I have no idea. A quick scroll through her account though shows she's not as "above" fandom as she claims she is, and I've seen enough to know that no matter how old she is, no matter who her parents are and her claim to pedigree, she can still be just another weirdo in a parasocial relationship with her fave. It's just that the more powerful and well-connected weirdoes have the capacity to do much more unhinged shit compared to the rest of us.

#zhang sanjian #张三坚

[akookminsupporter]

The thing I don't understand (not that there is ANY logic in this) is why now? Based on tweets I've seen, jk solos are planning to harass Jimin and tagging the south korean government? military? to not put Jimin with Jungkook because *checks notes * they claim he's gay? Where were these people the last 10 years when they lived together? That wasn't a problem??

I do hope they get sued though. They seem to be in korea and/or korean so I'm assuming that would make legal stuff work faster... I really hope every last one of them gets fucking sued because this is simply not normal behavior. There is stupid behaviour which is solos/(anti)shippers normally/usually, but what went down today is just fucking insane and not normal at all. These people either need help or jail or fucking both.

Why now? From what I saw it's because of the travel rumour, the show and the possibility of them ending up on the same base. Another trigger seems to be the announcement of the docu-series on Disney+, but I think the main reason is hate. Where were these people 10 years ago? Some are new but some have always been here, they have always said the same thing on social media but I think the worst, at least in Korea, is what happened in 2019 and now. Although I think it has happened on other occasions on Naver and Weibo as well. Yes, the fact that the people or accounts are Korean helps a little bit for the agency to do something, when it comes to international fans it's a little bit more complicated. I know of one account that posted death threats against Jimin, and Karmy reported it to the agency, let's hope they do something.

And yes, what happened today was horrible and I dread to think what will happen in a few hours when they arrive at the airport.

#jikookphobics

[sgdlr-asdfghjkl]

Hellooo, sorry to bother you for this and maybe you've already said this but djskjs

Since you are posting all this link click musical content, do you have a weibo account? When you're looking for the content, do you use the app or the website? Cause I don't have an account and I've been looking through it on the browser but I only really find a few posts, meanwhile you seem to have an entire mine 😂 I wonder if there's really a difference or if there's something else I'm unaware of...

I don't wanna miss a single video 😂

But anyways thank you for sharing all the content and the info 🙏🏻❤️

Ayy it's okay, I'm happy to share ^^

No, I don't have a weibo account. I use a website (computer is more optimal for managing files). As for the rest I may have some tips ✨

1. Basic navigating tips (I've learnt it like a lab monkey, by pushing buttons, idk chinese): #音乐剧时光代理人# is the tag for LC musical. 2 last tabs on a left matter the most. The play button is tab with videos, first filter (the orange one) is for most popular, the other is for most recent.

The one below play button, a photo, is for pictures. They show from the most recent ones and I think you can scroll through them freely.

*For more convenient browsing and a chance to find extra photos that weren't properly tagged I recommend visiting profiles that posted the pics.

*second tab, the speech bubble one, is for discussion I think, it's sometimes useful for audience reviews etc.

2. If you don't have an acc weibo limits your access to older videos (message belows tells you to sign in to see more)

So I visit this tab just to check if anything interesting happened in the most recent play.

3. Bilibili doesn't seem to limit your access to older content, so for browsing videos use the #音乐剧时光代理人# on Bilibili. You can google translate the website to figure out the layout options, then go back to chinese ver (you must view original ver for clips to show up) and explore from there.

*Tbh I don't keep up with the videos much bc it's all the encore from different days. If anything big happens I learn about it from the photos, then look for the clips from that particular performance.

4. Check @接着奏乐接着舞Musicals (official profile of the musical's company). They post summary clips and photos from the play as well as cast announcements.

5. Check the actors' weibo accounts. A post where I tag and link to all of main trio actors. THIS IS IMPORTANT (my secret of having 200+ pics of LG & CXS actors). I'll use Cai Qi's acc as an example:

a) Go on their weibo.

b) Copy and paste their weibo tag into the search bar.

c) Look for a post with photos of them (can be from other play, doesn't matter)

d) THIS! We're looking for this diamond-shaped tag symbol 🔍

e) Click it and you're home 😌:

f) (ok I have no idea what IS this diamond tag) BUT it looks like a verified vip account, that not all people can tag. I suspect it's something like 'pay to tag your idol'/'highlight my post to a tagged person' twitter subscription kind of thing idk. Edit: It's a person-specific tag, like #, not direct @. What matters is that it has ALL hardcore stans in one place, posting videos, fancams and photos of that one specific actor in chronological from most recent order. Sadly it also limits non-users to newer posts only.

g) For clips with the actor go to the second tab on the top.

h) Third tab is for images. You can browse through the minatures but won't be able to enlarge them without the acc. So go back to the first tab, scroll, find yourself a batch that you haven't seen before, like here and visit OP's profile. It's the most probable to stumble upon a theatre kid who's already been to the LC musical, so you can find more content on there.

i) Scroll until you find the post with photos, click one of them, and then the highlighted option to access the highest quality image aand there you have it ✨

j) If you scroll and reach a user-only limit without finding the post you saw under the vip tag, there's a roundabout way to this >>

k) Scroll back up, and go to the last tab. It's the image albums tab. Look for the album with the theatre/actor photos. It seems the albums have no recency limit, you can see older posts without weibo acc.

(I feel kinda creepy for digging through people's profiles, but I swear weibo seems public like twitter and I have a tunnel vision to find LC content only)

So that was probably a core difference by the way I look for these things ><' Hopefully I explained it well enough. The biggest disadvanages of this method is you're still able to access only the most recent posts. That's why I made bookmarks to check them everyday.

Another thing is that not all actors in LC musical cast have a well established stan community who would post in the vip tag. They mostly do, but actors like Du Guangyi, Cai Qi, Teng Chunpeng, Zhang Jiahao, Wu Yihan or Wang Minhui tend to overshadow the rest by a sheer amount of fan pictures :'>

Hope it was a comprehensible read, and thanks for asking 💝

#link click musical #text post #weibo #link click #ask

[swagginmun]

Wanting to put my two cents in, I noticed you mentioned how you asked something within your side acc on twt, about how you were confused on why it's somehow okay for Wukong to be simped for but not Nezha or Erlang or anyone else.

The whole simping situation is actually a popular thing in Chinese fandom spaces (Lofter, Weibo, etc), but it's more of a self ship/OC x Canon type of way. They have their own terms, female OCs or self inserts are referred to as "Original Female Characters" 【原女】, while Self ships and OC x Canon ships involving female OCs with a canon character are called/tagged as "Dream Girls" 【梦女】, a lot of them do not shy away from retellings of deities (Sun Wukong, Erlang Shen, and even Nezha!)

I've actually met a Chinese lmk fan that ships their OC with Nezha, Oppbug to be exact (on twt), they sometimes tweet about fun facts regarding Nezha from time to time.

In conclusion Just wanted to put that out there, I don't think a lot of people know about how similar eastern fandom spaces are to western, I find it quite neat that we aren't so different to one another!

Thank you so much for the anecdote hellborne! I've always wondered about the specific site names for fandom spaces for Chinese audiences flood more too, and now I know! :D And I do happen upon ocxcanon art/stories in this fandom more often than I've seen in other fandoms I've been a part of and I think that's kinda sweet; obvs 6EM is a bit most of the attention but I always get happy seeing people embrace having fun with ocxcanon stuff :^D

#swagginasks

[rainbowsky]

GG and the Duomo di Milano

Duomo 2019 (left), 2023 (right) and 2024 (top).

He has posted a photo of it whenever he goes to Milan, since his first trip there in 2019. Here's my CPN on that.

Fake, fan fiction, CPN.

Of course, as an artist and a photographer it makes sense that GG is interested in this beautiful building. Gorgeous intricate architecture that is covered in lifelike statues, no doubt it is very satisfying to photograph. It's truly one of the most stunning cathedrals in the world. But we're turtles, so we're always going to look at things from a slightly different angle.

This CPN first came up back in 2019, the first time he went to Milan. GG said in an interview that he was excited to see the cathedral, and he posted a picture of it on his Weibo account. Turtles at the time speculated that GG was inspired by the photos that were all over the news in 2016, when same sex marriage was legalized there.

It was the location of massive LGBTQ rallies when same sex marriage was being debated and put to a vote, and was the site of equally massive celebrations when that vote won.

Some people are skeptical of this connection because they feel that the time gap of a couple years is too large for it to be relevant, but to me those people can't possibly understand how significant the same sex marriage fight is to queer people who wish to marry (and who wish to have their human rights recognized in general).

Especially around that time in history, when the fight was at its most active globally. There was a period of a few years where the issue was constantly in the news, as more and more countries were gradually recognizing legal rights for same sex couples. Images of those protests and celebrations were inspiring and exciting for queer people all over the world, and those who cared a lot about the issue followed that news pretty closely.

This is an issue of significance to queer people everywhere, even those who don't want to marry. It represents a shift toward acceptance and toward broader legal recognition of equal human rights for queer people.

Same sex marriage is a huge hurdle toward equality for anyone whose rights are at stake, because most of the opposition to human rights for queer people tends to come from religious groups and conservatives with narrow notions of 'family values'. When societies acknowledge - even on paper - that queer families are legitimate, the biggest barrier has been crossed.

Based on a lot of things I've seen from GG over the years I believe he's very deeply invested in Pride and gay rights. He's not at liberty to be as open about it as he'd like to be, but I believe he shows what he can. I have talked about that in more detail in this post.

I also believe that marriage is something that both GG and DD care a lot about. They are each others anchors in life, and even when they don't get to spend a lot of time together, they are home to each other. DD has also talked about wanting a son, and GG has also shown interest in children and family and often talks about a simple life.

They just ooze domesticity on many levels, and I think that even if it doesn't fit within their lives right now, they probably talk about and think about building a family together one day. And given the culture in China their parents likely want that for them as well.

I talked about the possibility they might already be married in this post. I talked about the possibility of them wanting kids in this post about DD saying he wanted a son, and later in this one from an OOL interview where GG mentioned envying Gu Wei's life.

Both GG and DD strike me as being connected to queer culture, just given some of their jokes, attitudes, etc. and some of the people they're associated with. Even their experience with filming CQL (which I talked about in this post). They're also both from the younger generation in China, which is much more progressive and informed on these issues.

All of this leads me to believe that it's not an accident that this landmark has captured GG's imagination.

The Duomo is also a very popular wedding/romantic photo destination, and where couples often propose.

I think that it's romantic that GG posted the moon over the cathedral this time. There are a lot of fake rumors and CPN around GG and DD and the moon, and turtles believe that they often send pictures of the moon to each other. They've both posted photos of the moon on social media in the past.

There have been a lot of posts about their connection with the moon over the years. A few of my favorites are Pie's post from Mid-Autumn Festival, Pie's post about Midsummer Moon (among other things) and of course the LRLG rumor that talks about DD taking pictures of the moon for GG.

Given what this landmark might mean to GG, it makes this photo even more special.

Or he could just enjoy photographing a pretty building. We'll likely never know for sure.

#bjyx #yizhan #gg milan fashion week 2024 #photographer gg #the mysteries of yizhan #lgbtpride

[fourseasonsfigs]

600, or a musing on resilience and love

Hello all you wonderful figthusiasts! Today is the day that I hit 600 fan figs on my spreadsheet total (not all in hand, the vast majority are in some stage of production or transport), and I wanted to take a minute to stop and celebrate what is, by all accounts, an incredible number.

This is less about me (and my perhaps fiscally-questionable use of disposable cash) and more about the fact that more than 600 individual figures of Gong Jun and Zhang Zhehan were produced and made solely by fans. That this many actually exist in the world. What this is about, above all other things, is about love, and resilience, and the awe-inspiring, unstoppable combination of both.

I don't normally talk about the current situation with Zhang Zhehan and Chinese entertainment, because this blog is meant to be a little island of happiness and fun for us that love this show, love these two actors, and love seeing cute renditions of them. But 600...well, 600 feels powerful. It feels like something worth talking about.

This fandom has had half of our vibrant, beautiful soul ripped from us in the nastiest, cruelest, most contemptible way possible. This is greed and evil in the most overt form I've seen in the world, and it was horrifying to watch it unfold that August.

As overseas fans, we at least can still see Zhang Zhehan's past works, post videos and photos of him, and freely say his name as much as we want. The Chinese fandom cannot. Zhang Zhehan has been so comprehensively erased from Chinese media that he cannot even use his own name. The fandom can't even search for his name online, his pictures and videos have been removed, and any of the shows or movies that feature him that remains still available has him (literally) scrubbed from the screen.

This is what I see when I search for Zhang Zhehan on Taobao, Weidian, and Xianyu:

The Chinese fans have taken matters into their own hands, and stood up and fought back and refused to forget him. The fig makers, the doll makers, the merch makers - all of these incredibly brave, loyal, and loving fans have gone out there and dedicated thousands and thousands of hours of their own time and their own money to keeping his memory fresh, his work front and center, and his light constantly burning.

They took him from the fans, but they can't make the fans let him go.

Luckily, the fandom still has the other half of it's soul, and continues to celebrate Gong Jun and his accomplishments, and his own fiercely loyal and great heart, and celebrates the love and affection and care these two souls have for each other. Zhehan promised Junjun forever on May 5th, 2021, and the fandom honors and helps keep his promise.

Think about it. Six-hundred-plus fan-created figurines of the two of them. I don't even own all the fan figs - there's absolutely more than this, I'd estimate closer to 700.

There's Wenzhou figs, of course, but random side character in a long ago TV show? Check. Main characters? Check. Appearance(s) on a variety show? Check. Ad campaigns? (Lots of) magazine shoots? Check check. Casual airport outfit? Workout pose? Douyin moment? any number of Weibo posts? Livestream? not just one, not just two, not just three, renditions of childhood photos? Check check check.

And the figs are still coming. I have a whole list of figs in sketch form sitting in my Weidian cart, waiting to be opened for deposits. One after another, fig makers dipping deep into their precious hoards of recorded shows and magazines and photos and videos of Zhehan, designing one fig after another. Every time Junjun wears some fancy new designer outfit, fans are hard at work pairing that look with a complementary one from Zhehan's archive, determined to keep these two front and center in a country where they can't even type Zhehan's name into a search engine without it being censored.

My respect for the Chinese fandom and the fan creators is immense. They have souls of steel. Every time I hold one of these figs in my hand, and marvel at the cleverness and creativity and all the fine little details, I feel the strength of that connection to them, that iron determination, the fierce will to persevere, that pride and joy, and the love that can't be stopped. 坚强 indeed.

Yeah, 600+ figs is a trauma response, no question. For the fan makers and the fan buyers. But it's a response, all right. Today I have 600 and more tiny (giant) shouts of, you can't stop us, we're going to keep loving and celebrating and remembering him no matter what happens.

It's incredible. I don't know why 600 is the number that really hits me - I had thought it would be 500, but I blew past 500 without blinking in a frenzy of late night and early morning fig drops, and then it was Gong Jun's birthday, and a tidal wave of love and figs, and now here I am. I was at 598 yesterday and already today I'm at 612. I'll be at 700 before I know it, with a lot of remainders starting to be released and the Spring Festival coming up.

I have less than 200 fan figs actually at home, and it's ... a lot. My husband asked me a while back, staring at my display shelves, so, what's the end game here? and I just looked at him, and said, I don't know.

I really don't. I have to believe this is totally unprecedented, but then again, what happened to him is totally unprecedented. The only thing I know that if the fans keep making them, I'm going to keep supporting them.

So here's to resistance, and resilience, and love. Here's to the fans staying strong, and here's to Gong Jun and Zhang Zhehan. It's going to be a glorious sunrise on the mountaintop when it comes.

#junzhe #zhang zhehan #gong jun #lld #resilience #fighting back #love

[hokkyokusei]

Characters' body proportions, "long legs syndrome" or why some people create hatred for the sake of hatred

First, let me explain to people who may not understand how proportions work in drawing.

I also want to remind you of a simple truth: change is not bad. Note: I took extra art classes in elementary school for 4 years and then completed 5 art classes(years) at art school. During my last years of study I had the most wonderful teachers. Still love one of these teachers so much.

And that is why I am sure that what is now considered a trend and supposedly the norm is a VERY BIG mistake.

I've noticed a trend of hate towards Onmyoji's game developers, and while I agree with some of their f#ck-ups, I still want to remind you that there are PEOPLE LIKE US working there. Hateful comments are not constructive criticism!

So who here thinks that the characters supposedly have “long legs syndrome”? Where and how did you get this information and who told you THAT THIS IS TRUE?

I was just furious when I read this nonsense on Weibo, the worst thing is that people don’t even understand this and blindly believe it! Don't blindly believe everything the Internet gives you! You can always check for yourself or find people who understand this topic!

Today I found out that the art team has changed and we can actually see that this seems to be true as the latest designs have changed.

I see a bunch of accusations and dissatisfaction against the developers that they draw incorrectly. Again, has anyone seen a sensible answer other than just a comparison of heights compared to previous works?

Secondly, I want to break down this stupid idea of long leg syndrome in characters.

The correct proportions in drawing are considered to be 7-8 heads from head to toe.

Hair growth, heels, levitation and other attributes are absolutely NOT taken into account. Only the skull and so the heads need to be counted 7-8.

There are times when artists can draw up to 9 heads in height. For example, big heroes.

Individual haracteristics, injuries (for example, a hernia in the back will make the height shorter, too tall growth will slightly change the proportions) must be taken into account.

The people “with long legs syndrome” are you and I look like in reality. Frequently, this is a European type of appearance. Asians, for example, have lower butts than Europeans (tested on Koreans lol), that’s why they think that our legs are longer, although they are also beautiful in proportion.

But another fun fact: we don’t have ideal proportions, because our fingers, arms, legs, etc. are longer and shorter by a few millimeters invisible to us.

But we're talking about basic anatomy in drawing, right? Teenagers and children have different proportions, but since they were not compared, I won’t describe them here; if you’re interested, you can find them on the Internet.

Proportions also differ between men and women.

+ in humans, proportions change with age.

For those who compare with the old character models in the game: Apparently, the art team has changed. So now they do what they want. And they do it competently and correctly in terms of proportions in the drawing. I don't judge past artists; Every creative person sees things differently. But the game continues to develop and this is ABSOLUTELY normal and natural. I don't think that old models will be remade for the sake of correct proportions, they will be optimized, but not completely remade in a new way. I think it's cool, kind of showing respect to those who originally worked on the character model.

People suffer every day and express their hatred online. I do not defend the mistakes of the developers, but I also ask you not to incite hatred everywhere without understanding the topic well.

Also remember that sometimes mistakes happen. As one wonderful mangaka said when asked about the difference in the height of characters on different pages of the manga: there was an uneven floor somewhere!

I hope this post has helped you and now you see things from a different perspective. If you have questions, you can ask them here or in DM.

And if you have the chance, send this post to people who believe in "long legs syndrome" characters, or send them to the Internet to google information about correct proportions (o˘◡˘o)

#onmyoji #onmyoji susanoo #onmyoji tsukuyomi #onmyoji susabi #onmyoji izanagi #onmyoji taki #onmyoji cn server news

[bizarrequazar]

GJ and ZZH Updates — January 7-13

previous week || all posts || following week

This is part of a weekly series collecting updates from and relating to Gong Jun and Zhang Zhehan.

This post is not wholly comprehensive and is intended as an overview, links provided lead to further details. Dates are in accordance with China Standard Time, the organization is chronological. My own biases on some things are reflected here. Anything I include that is not concretely known is indicated as such, and you’re welcome to do your own research and draw your own conclusions as you see fit. Please let me know if you have any questions, comments, concerns, or additions. :)

[Glossary of names and terms] [Masterlist of my posts about the situation with Zhang Zhehan]

01-07 → Nothing of note.

01-08 → Gong Jun posted a commercial he did for Fresh. At the same time, Fresh posted a photo ad announcing that he has been promoted to their global spokesperson.

→ PRSR posted a photo ad featuring Gong Jun.

01-09 → Fresh posted a promotional video spoken by Gong Jun.

→ Gong Jun posted two photos of himself debuting items from Louis Vuitton's new line. (12:17, 511 kadian) Caption: "A sunny and cheerful big boy" He also posted these to his Xiao Hong Shu, caption: "Collection of refreshing boys' avatars Where did these pictures come from? I've never seen them before" and his Instagram, caption (orig. in English): "JOTD from Les Gastons Vuitton. ✌"

01-10 → The Instagram posted a video of "Zhang Zhehan" reacting to watching Castle in the Time.

→ Hold a Court Now, the drama Gong Jun is currently filming, released a behind the scenes video. [subbed video]

→ Fresh posted a promotional video spoken by Gong Jun.

→ Gong Jun posted a commercial he did for 361°.

01-11 → 361° posted a behind the scenes video for the commercial. (1129 kadian)

→ Gong Jun posted four selfies to his personal Weibo. Caption: "It's a rare day when my face is whiter than my hands."

01-12 → GXG posted five photo ads of Gong Jun. They later also posted a commercial featuring him.

→ The Instagram posted a video of "Zhang Zhehan".

→ PRSR posted a photo ad featuring Gong Jun.

01-13 → Nothing of note.

Additional Reading: → N/A

previous week || all posts || following week

#Zhang Zhehan #Gong Jun #Word of Honor #woh cast #lld timeline

[stoopid-turtle]

Overall BTS in Order Summary + Takeaways

Okay, this project was a) impromptu and b) fun and c) biiiggg.

There are some observations and thoughts that didn't quite fit in any one month that I wanted to add on. I also wanted to think through what I take away from this timeline as far as ggdd's relationship. So here's super-duper long post.

Shenanigans on set - professionalism

It's commonly observed that ggdd are a chaotic duo, and the impression you get from watching bts highlights is that they must have been a nightmare on set. If you watch through the bts clips on the daily, though, it's easy to see why gg and dd are well-regarded by people they work with.

Most of their day is endless takes of doing the same scene over and over. They spend a lot of time talking through a scene and their characters. Sometimes making small modifications but usually just giving a scene another go. They're usually doing this in harsh physical and emotional conditions, whether hanging on wires, immersing themselves in cold water, doing fight scenes in thick robes and sweltering heat, or working into the wee hours of the morning. Both gg and dd worked while injured and/or sick.

The moments of chaos are pretty rare and typically not disruptive. They're during moments where they're waiting for the crew to set something up. Sometimes they're egged on by the crew and the director. Overall, they're dedicated professionals who took advantage of slow moments for some fun but were otherwise focused on the show.

Kudos also to the rest of the cast and crew who were similarly dedicated. (Also, how do I get a job as dd's umbrella holder? Where should I send a resume?)

If you go into the bilibili playlist expecting non-stop ggdd shenanigans, you're gonna be disappointed. If, you're, like me, a nerd who finds the meta of filming interesting and doesn't mind sitting through people doing the same thing over and over again, then you're in luck because there's literal hours of that.

The fuzziness of the timeline.

I want to provide some cautions with the timeline. I rely heavily on a cfan-made bilibili playlist whose method I honestly can't understand bc it doesn't translate well through Google. What's more, I made some judgment calls when comparing against other timelines I've found, a cfan-made Weibo timeline, and vic's timeline here on Tumblr. Any of these could be wrong, so don't take this timeline as super-duper solid.

There are times I identify a clip as a widely-known translated clip, and there were also clips that were NOT in the bb playlist but that I tried to place based on some assumptions. I want to break these down.

Type 1

This is simple. These are when there's a clip on the playlist that is identical to a translated clip I've seen, just without the subtitles. This makes up most of them. The chocolate bar hug, the bondage conversation, the jealousy in English clip. As long as the bb playlist date is correct, then the date for these clips should be correct.

Type 2

Much less common. This is when I've seen a longer, translated version of a clip on the bb playlist so I'll include in the timeline what else goes in that clip.

As an example, the bb playlist has the clip of dd pretending to choke gg. I've seen elsewhere that this clip continues past where the bb playlist cuts off to also show gg singing Sam Smith to dd. So I place those both on the same day. These should be as reliable as Type 1

Type 3

These are the most open to error. There are clips that are not in the bb playlist but that have gg and dd in the same costumes, shooting the same scene as playlist clips. In those cases, I make a (big) assumption that they took place on the same day.

As an example, the bb playlist has Cloud Recess era gg and dd in the Cold Springs (not the secret cave but the place where gg makes his sword pee). The playlist does not include the clips of gg injuring his foot, but I've seen those clips and they're shooting the same scenes so the costumes and such are the same. I assume they're all on the same day.

But I could be wrong. Oftentimes, the same scene is reshot weeks later for technical reasons. Some scenes take multiple days to shoot. The script was also changing as they shifted away from het-washing wwx, and they had to reshoot some scenes as a result. The clip of gg injuring his foot could be from some other day when they had to shoot those scenes again for whatever reason.

Likewise with the cloud recess library pretzeling clip. I'm guessing it goes on 8/20, because that's the only day the playlist has clips from those scenes. But that does not mean that 8/20 was the only day cloud recess library scenes were filmed.

The other scene that falls into this type is from June, when gg and dd complain to each other about how few scenes they have together. The clip I've seen (elsewhere) was clearly taken while shooting the scene where LSX and WN run off together, so I've placed it there.

This brings us back to what I explained in April but I really just want to pound on it: we know SOOOO little. Most days, we don't even have an hour's worth of bts footage. There are so many scenes shot that we don't have any insight on. And we don't know what we don't know (and probably never will).

There are some clips that weren't included on the bb playlist that I can't even begin to guess the date for. I've seen the clip of gg saying "delete it" to a wwx/wq scene, but even though I know the costume that gg and dd were wearing, I don't have anything more specific to place it to a date.

I also really wanted to know what the date is on the clip of dd questioning a costume-jiejie about what gg said about him in an interview. No such luck. The most I can do is guess it may be related to the interview in July. The Aug interviews seem way too late for that clip, but who knows? (Honestly, the July interview seems a bit late for that type of clip)

Another clip that I wish I could date: the clip where dd casually mentions how handsome Xue Yang is to prompt gg to give rainbow farts to lwj.

I was also just curious about the WQ scenes in general, so I was disappointed they weren't on the playlist. I've seen some of the original WQ scenes elsewhere (I guess from gg solo playlists on YouTube), and I'm just generally interested in the shift the production team made in response to fan complaints (and maybe to complaints from their stars?).

All this to say, take the timeline as fuzzy. If someone wants to take on the herculean task of tracking down and correcting my errors (and making that super-awesome comprehensive Google sheet), then you have my highest respect (and my sword).

Is the devil's timeline possible? Looking at you, may.

I've been approaching my takeaways from the assumption that they met first on DDU, didn't interact for a year, then properly met again when they ended up on the Untamed. I don't have strong feelings about the Devil's Timeline, honestly, and I wouldn't be too surprised if it's true. But I tend to stick to the documented first meeting timepoint when speculating, just to not compound speculation atop speculation.

But putting that aside, if there anything in the timeline that rejects the Devil's Timeline out of hand? Not really. Some of the harder to explain dates are also hard to explain with the standard timeline (I'll get to those), so the devil's timeline is as likely as anything.

Is there anything that supports the Devil's Timeline?

Well, there are some clips that indicate a committed relationship much earlier than the standard timeline assumes. This may not necessarily mean we're in devil land. It could just mean their relationship moved faster than most people think. But they are notable.

Let's look at 2 clips in May that stand out as odd.

On 5.22, there's a clip attached to a rumor that gg and dd had a fight. The rumor goes that dd left the set early for some reason. In the morning, when gg asked where dd was going, dd said it was none of his business. When he returned, gg gave him the silent treatment. Dd grew increasingly upset about it while gg got snippy about how dd clearly didn't want him to care about him.

The clip this goes with is shot from a distance. There's no real sound, so I'm assuming that somebody did some lip-reading to come up with a transcript (that was then translated to English for the version I've seen). In it, an upset dd tells gg that he never told him (gg) not to care about him (dd).

There's obvious issues when relying on lip-reading for a conversation. Especially in this case, because their mouths are blocked at several points by people bustling around. The most I can reliably say about this clip is that gg does look a little frosty and dd is most definitely upset (like, startlingly upset).

If the rumor and the lip-read are accurate, this type of exchange only really makes sense in the context of some type of serious relationship. This was about a month before the dragon boat festival date.

I don't know enough about the original rumor to even have a guess as to how reliable it is. It's interesting to me, though, and I'm not inclined to dismiss it out of hand. If it's not true, then I wonder what, exactly, dd was so upset over if they're not yet in a relationship.

The other odd clip is the 5.17 clip of gg being jealous of the camera guy.

It's clear that gg felt threatened by the camera guy, but it's ambiguous as to what that implies about their relationship. Jealousy can rear its head within a romantic relationship, of course. But it could also manifest if they're still just friends but gg feels a special claim on dd somehow. Maybe they're in early flirting stages. Maybe gg knows dd has a crush on him, likes it, and feels threatened when dd's attention (which is usually pretty focused on him) is taken by another guy.

Any of these could be the case here. So gg's jealousy doesn't necessarily indicate that gg and dd are an item at that time. But it could.

These 2 clips are definitely interesting in how early they happen, and the earlier we see signs that gg and dd are an item, the more likely the devil's timeline is real.

So yeah. If you're on the devil's side, you got just as much support as anybody else based on this timeline.

Confusing dates

@bzhitstruth and I brought up a couple clips on the timeline that surprised us with their dates. Specifically, the jealousy in English conversation and the "I'm not talking about wwx, I'm talking about xz" moment. Both of these take place in July, while it seemed to me that mid-June would be the latest that gg and dd could get together based on the walk of shame after the dragonboat festival date.

Why is it weird to have these 2 clips a month later?

Well, the jealousy conversation involves them each accusing the other of chatting up other people. DD is specific about having heard gg talking to a girl some days ago whereas gg just accuses dd of having talked to men on WeChat. (I'm putting aside whether dd and gg were chatting up other people bc I'm not incredibly interested in going there. I'm more interested in what it says that they had this discussion). This is a conversation that I would expect to see if they were either not yet in a relationship or if their relationship was brand new and they were bringing up old habits the other had that they feel threatened by.

It reads oddly if they're a month into their relationship.

The other clip is more subjective, but my general impression before doing the timeline was that dd's smooth pickup line there is some early-stage flirtation. Both dd's line and gg's reaction come across as fresh and new, not an interaction one has with a person they've been dating for a month.

These are both Type 1 clips, so as long as the bb playlist is correct, then I'm 100% sure that they're dated correctly.

As to what to make of all this...uh...

"It's complicated" relationship status

Here's a best guess? I'm not committed to this. Just spitballing ideas that may fit the timeline.

I'm also basing this on my experience dating before I got married (I got married when I was 28, so I was still dating when I was gg's age). Of course, I got married around 2010, so the tech and dating landscape was different then. And obviously, I'm an American bisexual woman, not a gay/bi Chinese man. So my experience is probably gonna be a poor fit for gg and dd's experience, is what I'm saying. Take everything with a big ol' grain of salt.

One thing I'm pretty firm on, they had a sexual relationship on or before 6/18. Dd's walk of shame is hard to otherwise explain. There is the possibility that dd did that lazy smell test thing where he didn't have any clean clothes so just wore what he wore yesterday without thinking about it. I knew a looottttt of guys his age that did that (in fairness, I did that sometimes). Course, they were poor college students or burnouts who did not have PAs and staff to do their laundry so...

I'm sticking to it my certainty here. It's not realistic that they started a sexual relationship later than 6/18.

I noted in the May summary post that when dd realized that gg was physically affectionate, he hopped to take advantage of that (not in a predatory way). On 5.4, dd was constantly draping himself all over gg. What if they started having casual sex around this date?

Bear with me, y'all.

Plenty of decent relationships start with casual sex. My marriage began with me intending it to just be FWB (my wife had other intentions and, well, obviously it moved beyond FWB). So let's not do any shaming on this (in other words, I will take it personally). It's a part of modern life. In addition, my understanding is that actors' sex life is oftentimes connected to what they're filming at any given time.

Being friends w/ benefits (FWB) means gg and dd have an intimate connection that we see on set sometimes. On 5.7, dd helps gg practice his dance, for instance. But it also means that they're not on firm romantic footing, even if feelings are creeping in (which they definitely were).

How might this play out? Check out my fanfic outline:

On 5.17, we have gg getting jealous of the camera man. He feels some exclusive claim to dd given their FWB relationship and given dd is clearly nursing a crush on him, and he doesn't like having competition for dd's attention.

On 5.22, they have that fight. I wonder if gg took dd by surprise by pushing the bounds of their relationship to that point. GG, like dd, is feeling more invested in their relationship than a simple FWB requires, and he's getting annoyed when dd doesn't act the same (by going off to lunch without telling him where he's going). DD looks stressed bc while he does want something more with gg, he didn't realize they were at that point, and he's worried he screwed things up before they could develop.

After that point, romance might have started to play more of a role in their interactions as both of them pick up on the fact that the other might want something more as well. On 6.1, gg pulls out the heavy flirting with a kabedon and whispering in dd's ear. DD is clearly into it.

On 6.7, we get the clip where dd seems to ask for a kiss from gg. If they've been having sex since May, this isn't a huge surprise. Their relationship must also be common knowledge on set (they had that 5.22 argument in front of a bunch of crew and XL, all of whom didn't even seem to be paying attention).

On 6.14, they have the frankly obscene Cold Spring Adventures with each other.

Then on 6.18, they go on a date (with director and producer for plausible deniability). Maybe it's the first actual date they have and marks when they officially move from FWB to explicit romance.

On 6.30, there's the scene where jgy monologues while gg wants dd to romantically give up his life for gg (and dd's like, "nah, I'll just use my sword").

Moving a FWB to a romance can be weird and can take some work. Old habits creep in a lot and the fact that things started as FWB can lead to some early relationship insecurity.

On 7.17, dd's a little insensitive when he calls gg stupid after gg injures his foot in the water. GG honestly doesn't seem to notice (he's focused on getting to the shore and looking at his foot), but dd is clearly beating himself up throughout the clip and apologizes multiple times.

On 7.18, we have dd doing his "I'm not talking about wwx, I'm talking about xz" line. Maybe he's going hard, trying to make up for his misstep from yesterday? Given gg's reaction, this is clearly the type of romance he's looking for, so dd pretty much nailed it.

On 7.23 we have the English jealousy conversation. As they started as FWBs, they were probably aware that the other had similar arrangements in the past. That was probably a source of insecurity for both of them at the beginning as they moved onto a romance. This may be what's behind this particular conversation.

On 8.4, the night before dd's birthday, we get some big romance with rooftop stargazing and a birthday countdown. Then on 8.5, the cake and prezzies. On the morning of 8.6, dd posts his Weibo message about continuing things he started at 21 when he's 81.

DD's Weibo post always read as a response to something specific. Maybe gg was starting to have reservations about where their relationship would go after filming. The end was in sight, and gg may have been wanting to pull away, citing dd's age as a concern.

At the same time, they haven't put the kibosh on things yet. Maybe they're just trying not to think about it. They're busy enough, after all, they can put it out of their minds. That's how we get gg singing sam smith to dd on 8.18.

But then something happens. Maybe gg gets some big reminder that filming is wrapping up soon. Whatever it is, he deletes dd as a contact on WeChat. This leads to the 8.20 fight where dd asks gg to add him back and gg says they'll go their separate ways.

Maybe gg does add him back that day after the fight. Maybe he decides to wait until the very end to disconnect rather than hash it out while they still have filming to do. Maybe there are crucial events happening that were never caught on camera (Okay, this is definitely the case).

Whatever it is, they return to some form of normal for the next couple days. Then on the day they wrap, maybe that's the day gg breaks it off again. This is why dd was late to the photoshoot and why they fought on the steps after.

Whew. Okay, so I think that kinda accounts for all the ups and downs of the timeline.

Again, I'm not committed to this take. I'm just spitballing something that might make sense of some of these dates on the timeline. I'd love to see what other folks come up with!

We're all probably wrong anyway, and there's no way we'll ever know! 🤡🤡🤡🐢🐢🐢🐢

#bjyx #yizhan #the timeline of ggdd love yue #prezzie for turtles #this is ridiculously long #i'm sorry #i just have a lot of thoughts