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sapphic-agent · 7 days

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I have a dump of issues with the Glee subreddit, but your response back was one of the major things that bothered me about that place. The line was always being moved around there when it came to what was to be taken seriously and what was supposed to be campy. If Rachel did something, like send Sunshine to the crackhouse or make Run Joey Run so that she could show off 3 guys being interested in her, it's supposed to be campy and "peak Glee". If Santana done something like audition for FG, she's thrown under the bus on that sub. Multiple times I've witnessed the characters of color being criticized and hated on relentlessly on that sub while characters like Rachel are praised for their wrongdoings or it's excused. A lot of what is said about Brittany is also very ableist, where some viewers see her as a child who is incapable of having a relationship but only when it comes to dating Santana. The same conversations aren't held with Brittany's relationships with men.

The Glee subreddit is catered to Rachel stans and Rachel stans only. The Santana hate, it's not even valid criticism to me, comes from a lot more than just disliking the things she said. A lot of it seems to bleed from sexism, racism, homophobia and a small part of me also thinks it's about what we know BTS of the show and the cast.

Honestly, I think a lot of the Rachel pandering comes from the Lea Michele scandal.

When Samantha Marie Ware exposed Lea for being racist, there was a rush of sudden Rachel hate. Remember, pre-2020, there wasn't a lot of that (at least, not much in comparison). Knowing that Lea was like Rachel (x100) irl and that she put her co-stars through hell really changed a lot of people's perspectives on Rachel as a character. It, very understandably, makes a lot of Rachel's actions uncomfortable to watch. And that in turn, reasonably, made people start to dislike Rachel altogether.

I think the Glee subreddit, in an effort to combat that, decided to overcompensate by sucking her off constantly. I think in their minds, making light of Rachel's actions separates her from Lea and, in turn, the hate that came from Lea's actions.

And listen, we all hate when our favorite characters are misunderstood and hated by others. There are a ton of characters I'm protective of. But I don't attack other people for merely having a different opinion. I only argue when that hatred comes from misogyny, racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc. My beef with the Glee sub isn't that they hate Santana, it's that they repeatedly bash WOC like Santana, Mercedes, Sunshine, etc. to make Rachel and/or Finn look better (or in Quinn's case, when they act like Finn wasn't awful to her too and hold her to a higher standard than they do him). That's what isn't okay to me.

And about Brittany, they absolutely need to stop treating her like a child. Infantilizing her just because she isn't as smart as other people is so fucking stupid. Glee literally had a whole episode about how Quinn and Tina were wrong for trying to shelter Becky from having a relationship, why does anyone think that's okay to do to Brittany? And the fact that they only do it to argue against Brittana and not her relationships with men just screams homophobia and biphobia. Santana can never have anything, can she?

Not to mention, Brittany is one of the most emotionally intelligent people in the show. Especially when it comes to Santana. She's the reason Santana had so much development in season 2. Because she's one of the only people Santana can be herself around.

(Btw, this page isn't for Brittany/Brittana antis if that wasn't clear. I can't even believe how many Santana stans are anti Brittany)

#anti glee subreddit #pro santana lopez #pro brittany pierce #pro brittana #anti lea michele #rachel berry critical #anti finn hudson #anti rachel berry stans #anon ask

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unholybinchicken · 1 year

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brittany for 2, 8 and 41

woohoo I love Brittany, let's do this:

2- ok this one's easy ... I'm an autistic Brittany truther (AuDHD actually but my headcanon is that she doesn't get the ADHD diagnosis until at least a year after the Brittana wedding) and I'll die on that hill.

(I have a post in the works about it that lives in my head but not on either of my blogs but here's an awesome post from smolbrittana about it)

I do get kind of annoyed when I read stuff like this in response to questions as to whether or not Brittany could be autistic:

(just as an fyi, there's a difference between neurotypical people saying "you know, I've never really thought about that possibility too much but I'm also not autistic so who knows" and what the above post says, which is "ummmm how dare you imply this character is autistic, she is just ✨quirky✨" *proceeds to list a shitton examples of autistic traits*)

like (a) pretty much all of those people mentioned in that post lived in a time period where we didn't have the language for what autism was and disabled people were essentially institutionalised, (b) what ... autistic people can't be quirky eccentric geniuses ("quirky eccentric genius" is basically code for "autistic" btw) and (c ) dismissing autistic people as just being "quirky geniuses" doesn't make them any less autistic. It smacks of fans being uncomfortable with disability/neurodiversity and not wanting to associate Brittany with it because they like her but they don't want to acknowledge that a character they like has tons of things in common with real life autistic people to the point where they identify with her and headcanon her as one of them.

As an autistic person, I'm claiming Brittany S Pierce as one of us.

Autistic x ADHD Brittana rights

8- shouldn't be an unpopular opinion but she's awesome and I love her. I see a lot of Brittany hate on tumblr unfortunately and as someone who's neurodivergent myself, it's kind of shit to go into a fandom you've been in for over a decade and see people who are like "brittany doesn't deserve love because she's not smart enough" and it's like ... you don't have to be conventionally intellectual to be in a loving relationship jfc

I guess another one I have is that I love that she's a math genius, I think it's kind of badass and slay. Oh ... and also while I love the idea of dancer Brittany, with her love of animals, I could also see her being a zoologist ...

(Brittana have a cat cafe in the future and it's bamf af)

41- hands down has to be the one and only Quinni Gallagher-Jones from Heartbreak High ... but also the actress who plays her, the amazing Chloe Hayden.

(Chloe's special interests include frogs and the Titanic so I think they'd have a lot to talk about)

(I also think Brittany enjoys spending time with the version of Santana's dad I write in my fics because I did not give that man an entire room dedicated to his model trains for him to be interpreted as neurotypical god damnit)

#glee character ask thing #glee asks #character ask #anon #brittany pierce #autistic brittany #also santana's dad is autistic (at least the version of him in my fics)#brittany makes him do autism tests on 'fondue for two after dark'#aka the internet talk show married brittana have together

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spaceorphan18 · 3 years

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I read with interest your view and that of @hopefulobjectmiracle about tumblr Klaine fandom. Is there more shipping these days than 2010-15? I ask because there seems to be a smaller group that only ship Kurt with Blaine but there seems to be a huge rise in Kurtbastian and Hevans shippers. Likewise, there’s many more pezberry or faberry shippers. And a lot more of those shippers trying to discredit Blaine or Brittany as OTP for Kurt and Santana. There seems to be new younger people joining Tumblr declaring a love for all things Klaine, and then a week later shipping Kurt with everybody else!! Has there been a change since the show aired?

Hi Nonny! :)

Hmmm.... There's not really a clear answer to this because the way shipping evolved is different than people just finding things now.

There are kind of two different things going on here -- Kurt related shipping and non-Kurt (blaine/klaine) shipping. I can't tell you much about non related Kurt things -- however, I will say that Faberry was HUGE when the show was on. It's a subsection of the fandom I never interacted with but it was around in season 1, and loud enough that the show makes nod to it from season 2 forward. Brittana was always around, too, and the reason Brittana became a thing on the show was, partly, due to fans crying out that they should be a couple -- and more than the throwaway joke the writers made in the first season.

I don't know what happened to those ships over time, or how the evolved since the show ended -- I'm sorry :/

But now, I will tell you the epic history of Kurt shipping. (Again. i should really dig out my old notes on this, lol)

Here we go long post...

I found it! I'm going to quote myself so I don't have to write it out again, lol. This was originally from an ask about the BBO (Better Boyfriend Olympics), but it'll work here, too.

Okay, so let’s go back to 2010 when there wasn’t a Klaine fandom, there was a Kurt fandom. A lot of the BBO stemmed out of the Kurt’s Boyfriend Shipping wars of 2010.

Back then, there was just a Kurt fandom, and a lot of opinions about who he should date. Believe it or not, Kurt was shipped a lot with the other guys on the show, there was a healthy dose of Kurt/Finn, but Kurt/Puck was huge, and there was a smattering of Kurt/Mike (I never really did see much Kurt/Artie now that I think of it, which is kind of funny in retrospect, but I’m sure it’s out there.) Anyway - when the show announced Kurt was getting a boyfriend – well, things began to get heated up.

Three big ships emerged

Kurt/Sam - because the rumor was that Sam was originally supposed to be Kurt’s bf (probably not, but that rumor was big at the time). Btw, they were the canoe ship (I have no idea why) and was also known as Kum (rolls-eyes). This ship’s fanbase was so huge and lasted so long, that the show felt the need to address it head on in Season Two’s Rumours (not a joke).

Kurt/Karofsky - Also known as Kurtofsky, they were also called themselves the Pirate ship (god, Idk why, shipping wars are weird, yo). These people were also really passionate, mostly about Dave, but liked the whole idea that Kurt would save Dave and they would have this weird - enemies to loves love affair or something. I don’t know, I could never get past the squicky assault aspect, but whatever.

Kurt/Blaine - which. at the time, was… the biggest possibility? It’s funny cause the other two ships were just as big as the Klaine ship, and really the fighting became over who was going to be the best option for Kurt.

And that’s the thing. Fans of Kurt were so passionate about who was best for Kurt, because everyone had seen him go through hell and back on the show, so his boyfriend needed to be perfect for him. And you know who was perfect (at first) – Blaine. More on that in a second…

However, Blaine brought his own bit of baggage – namely fans of Darren Criss (and/or Starkid fans). Unlike Chord Overstreet or Max Adler, people knew who Darren was before he was on Glee. So his own fandom joined in on the Klaine of it all. At first it was all fine – as the shipping wars continued, it was less about Kurt vs Blaine and more about Klaine vs the other shippers. Well, that was going to change….

Original Song happened and Kurt and Blaine got together ending the question of who would ultimately be Kurt’s boyfriend. And things were nice and cozy headed into season 3. You’d think the Kurt/Sam and Kurt/Karofsky ships would die out, but not really, they stuck around for a long time, and kinda morphed into something else.

See, The First Time happened. And for the first time Blaine wasn’t the perfect prince that he was in season 2 – he had more of a developed personality, and more flaws. And… some people didn’t like it. (Also added to the mix was Sebastian – and the Seblaine and Kurtbastian ships were born, but those kinda go off on their own thing and I’m not really going to bring them up much here.) Anyway, what really got fandom split was Dance With Somebody.

You had two sides of an argument, people who saw Kurt’s POV and people who saw Blaine’s POV – and guess what happened. The two sides began to fight with each other over who was “right” in the argument. (My god…) And thus started what fandom started referring to as The Better Boyfriend Olympics.

See - for reasons I don’t fully understand - instead of seeing that each of the boys have a fault and each were wrong in the episode, each side wanted to say that their side, and their POV was the correct way – that one boyfriend was more oppressed and the other was not as good a partner.

On the Kurt side, though, you had a lot of the old Kurt fans and ships who didn’t like Blaine (and/or didn’t want Blaine as his partner) so they vehemently decided that unless Blaine was the perfect boyfriend again, he didn’t deserve to be with Kurt. Meanwhile, you had the Blaine fans, many of them Darren fans who wanted Blaine to have more depth to him than just being Kurt’s boyfriend, and not being Kurt fans first (or originally) they were going to push back at the Kurt fans who were lashing out at Blaine.

Compounding this was the fact that during season 3, there were so many cast members and characters that unless you were Finchel, you were begging for scraps and your featured episode to come along. Meanwhile - Kurt got a ton of screen time, but didn’t sing much, while Blaine sang a lot more, but didn’t get much story. The Kurt fans resented that Blaine was always singing. The Blaine fans were annoyed that the Kurt fans resented it, and tried to remind the Kurt fans that Blaine barely got any development.

Either way, a war had begun. And then The Break Up happened.

Now Kurt fans had a specific reason to point at – Blaine being a terrible boyfriend. He cheated. He’s terrible. The end.

The fandom was not firmly split into sides - you were either a Kurt fan - a lot of them who HATED Blaine - partly because he was getting more attention at the time, partly cause he did sing more, partly because they were made up of Kurt ships that didn’t work out, and partly cause they saw so much of themselves in Kurt that they projected onto him their own feelings, and loving Blaine was not a part of that projection. Or you were a Blaine fan - who spent a lot of time defending Blaine to the point of exhaustion, and became so resentful of Kurt that they wished Blaine could be with anyone else because Kurt (fans) didn’t understand Blaine and should just stop trying.

Weren’t there any Klainers you ask? Ha, well…. Klainers, people actually liked Kurt AND Blaine were stereotyped into two categories. Category A) the really really loud fanbase (usually on Twitter) that harassed the creators, RM, Chris, Darren, various crew about Klaine every second that they got – to the point that it started to feel embarrassing (that’s probably my own projection). Category B) People who thought (think) that Chris and Darren were (are) in a secret relationship. (Spoiler alert they aren’t, never have been, and never will be.) The two of these categories overlapped A LOT, and many of the fans of one boy or the other just disassociated completely.

You could still be a fan of the Klaine relationship, but you had a preference to which boy you were actually a fan of – you couldn’t like both, or else you were a Klainer, and that was not cool. (I spent a long time NOT identifying as anything, and trying to make sure everything I did and said was equal – a) cause I was new to fandom and b) cause I hated that either one or the other of these characters were villainized so frequently.)

Anyway - Season 4 continued. Adam showed up, and Kurt fans got all excited, but the problem was that a lot of them saw him as the perfect boyfriend again – not a real character but a prop that could make Kurt look good and be everything for Kurt. Look, I liked Adam, I did, but he was underdeveloped, and this weird idea that your boyfriend needs to be perfect in order to be a functioning relationship is just unrealistic. I digress. Meanwhile, we didn’t get a lot of Kurt POV, which didn’t help things, and meant even more projection over his character.

Meanwhile, the Blaine fans had formed their own community, which became viciously defensive of him. I think the whole fandom was toxic during this time for a lot of reasons, and I really wanted to quit it. Many people did – the show wasn’t being fun anymore.

Season 5 came along, the boys got back together, tempers simmered, but the whole idea of the Better Boyfriend Olympics came back every time a conflict happened. Arguments about who was the better boyfriend ensued, gatekeeping as to why their pick was best and why your opinion sucked still ran through the fandom. Not helping was the fact that Cory had died, and the creators, actors, and crew – as well as media – was tired of Glee.

The one nice thing, though was that a lot of the old crowd had moved on by then, and there was an influx of newer people coming in during season 5 (and season 6) – they weren’t here for the season 3 droughts and season 4 wars, and brought in a newer and fresher perspective.

But still - we had the end of season 5 and the summer of spoilers and season 6 to get through. At this point, the Kurt and Blaine camps had moved to their parts of the internet and really not speaking much to each other if they could help it. When an argument happened on the show, the same kind of Better Boyfriend Olympics came up again – one boyfriend was worse than the other, and unless they changed xyz they were not good enough for the other. But at this point, it was incredibly tiring. I know that I was just ready for the show to be done with.

I should say, as an aside, not helping things were the rise of some rather vocal BNF-ish fans, who dug their heels in about their own opinions. The refusal to even acknowledge that one side or the other might be right, or have valid points was not helping anything. A lot of people on both sides refused to even listen to the points on the other side – and instead of being frustrated at the show, the creators, or whatever, they took it against each other, which wasn’t fun to watch either.

Season 6 happened - Blainofsky happened, and that killed enthusiasm for the season on both sides, most people just kind of wanted it to be over. And then the ending came quickly, and I think a lot of people who were just plain unhappy about everything left for good.

The Better Boyfriend Olympics, or this weird competition that always pitted the boys and their fandoms against each other in the name of one being better than the other, leveled off after this. I won’t give myself /that/ much credit - but one reason I created @todaydreambelievers was to give fans of both Kurt and Blaine a safe place where we could enjoy and discuss both boys without the BBO rearing its head. And you know what – it did mend a few hearts.

For the most part, it’s been pretty quiet since. Fandom is quieter, but I think the people who have come into it after the show has ended are a lot less judgmental and argumentative. (I suppose it helps if you know how the story is going to end.) And the cool thing, for me, is finding a group of people who enjoy Kurt and Blaine equally (or respectfully) – and reclaiming the name Klainer as a good thing.

I’ll end by saying this – it’s been relatively peaceful, even with the influx of new people throughout the years, but I have been seeing shades of BBO pop up again. Look, you don’t have to like Klaine to be a fan of one or the other of them. But there are a lot of terrible things going on in the world, a lot of things to be angry and get indignant about. How a fictional couple was written ten years ago is not one of them. Be respectful of people, and know that maybe the side you understand better isn’t the only side worth listening to. ;)

////////////////////

So, I suppose that's part 1 of this full picture. Onto Part 2.

Here's the thing -- I've stayed, mostly, in my little tumblr buble over the past five years -- blissfully unaware that I suppose things were going on around me. Except... they really weren't. Until the pandemic happened, and Glee went to Netflix internationally, and a whole bunch of young kids grew up and started watching the show.

By the time I ended TDB in 2019, there weren't many of us left. I knew there was our small, dedicated group of fans. The tinhatters (the group who thought Chris and Darren were in some kind of relationship. spoiler alert -- they're not). And I know the Kurtbastian fans have been kicking around for a while. But no one was around in huge numbers.

And then boom - pandemic, and I'm shocked (not in a bad way) that this show has already seen a resurgence. The weirdest part, for me, is the fact that not only is history repeating itself -- seriously, people are bringing up old conflicts that have been dead for ages, and old shipping wars I never thought I'd see again -- but I think this new group's relationship with the show is much different.

I think that Kurt is a character whom a lot of people can still identify with. And because he's on his own in the first season, it's still easy to project yourself onto him. And then shipping goes from there. Blaine went from being the exciting option, omg are they really gonna do Klaine?? to -- hey Klaine is the boring canon choice, we can choose who we want for Kurt.

Layer over that years of Blaine hate still circling the interwebs. The echo chamber that Twitter and Tiktok create. And the fact that neither Chris or Darren seem to have the army of fans they once did (well -- Darren does, but they don't really watch Glee anymore). And you get this varied landscape of shipping.

No, some days it doesn't feel that different from the BBO days. The fact that I still get asks about Blaine and TFT car scene or Tested makes me feel like I'm back in 2013. Other times I'm perplexed by resurgences -- such as Kurtbasitan and Kurt/Sam. (Please don't bring back Kurtofsky guys)

But there's a saying -- Same Shit, Different Day.

I think there is an entirely different group of people than the original people watching, and their reasoning for shipping whatever is much different. But they've certainly come to a lot of the same conclusions that brought about the shipping wars in the early days.

At the end of the day - I think Kurt will always been a fandom mattress. But ship what you like and be nice to everyone else. There's enough hate in the world -- no need to dump on people's escapism.

#that's how s.o. sees it #klaine history #klaine #and fandom #did I answer the question?#idk

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