#this can be both pre-relationship and established byler

[uselessnbee]

ok but consider: Holly knew Will pretty much her whole life, he visits the Wheelers so often that he sometimes ends up helping Mike babysit her. and well little Holly loves him of course! he's always so kind and gentle and she loves and admires his art and so he always helps her to get better and he always compliments no matter what she draws and she just loves him so much!

so much that little Holly starts talking about how she's gonna marry him when she grows up.

and Mike ..well he's Mike ...so of course he's jealous. he knows it's stupid but also hey if Will is going to marry any Wheeler it's going to be him you little shit-

#this can be both pre-relationship and established byler #anyways it is a funny thought #will is so embarassed when she starts with it and when he finds out about Mike's jealousy he laughs at him and calls him an idiot #but then he gives him so many kisses until mike turns all red because he keeps pouting and whining #and god will just loves this dumbass so much #Mike: holly is my favorite sister i love her #Holly: i'm gonna marry Will when i grow up! #Mike: i want her gone- #alernative: when Holly gets older and understands more about this whole situation she realises how jealous it makes Mike #so she says it even more and becomes even more unbearable because she's Mike's and Nancy's sister so of course she can be a little shit too #mike wheeler #will byers #holly wheeler #byler #the wheeler siblings #i've been having a holly and her cool big bro mike brainrot these past few days #i need more of them

[nastyaex]

Will and Mike going to the museum/art gallery together : Mike doesn't care much about art (that isn't Will's) but it makes Will happy, so he joins him. The art suddenly becomes interesting when it's Will who's talking about it

in other words mike is a whipped fruit thank you for listening

#and will would grab mike's hand to lead him to another painting/sculpture #mike is BEAMING like holy shit will is so happy i'm happy too #can work with both pre-relationship and established relationship #and will talks talks talks talks and talks #and mike listens listens listens and listens #and he even tries to ask questions and it makes will happy #if will says something is ugly then it's 100% true to mike #he has 0 critical thinking left #if something is ugly but will finds it pretty THEN IT'S FACTUALLY PRETTY #they're both just really happy #byler #no guys you don't understand i'm currently kicking my feet the thought makes me so happy #it's embarrassing actually #byler headcanon

[hell-vetica]

byler and the beauty/power of patterns

byler vs most likely endgame ships

unlike all other platonic relationships, byler is the only stranger things friendship that has similarities and parallels with pre-established couples, as well as being constantly associated with romantic tropes. the way duffers handle byler is very similar to the way they handle canonical couples such as l*max, j*ncy and j*pper. the pattern is the same. mike and will have all the “requirements”.

there is no other platonic pair in stranger things like this one. you can compare with any other friendship; byler is exclusive.

1. l*max

2. j*ncy

3. r*ckie

4. j*pper

5. multiple ships

byler vs byler

byler also parallel their own pivotal moments and dynamics. will and mike have one of the most emotional, dramatic and profound “friendships” on stranger things. their scenes hold so much power, tension and tenderness.

yes, they still could be just friends if it wasn’t for the previous similiarities with canon couples and for the different ways the duffers build up romantic and platonic relationships on their show.

mike doesn’t look at lucas and dustin like that.

*you can tell how much effort the duffers put into their scenes. beauty, intimacy and love. these three are personally my favorites.

byler vs m*leven

byler and m*leven also have some parallels. the difference, however, is that most of the time, these parallels convey a message in opposite ways, as if the scenes in question were comparing one another.

the tone and text of these two relationship scenes changes completely depending on what is expected of that scene, such as m*leven's funny and colorful breakup and byler's dark and sad fight.

*same look in his eyes btw (picture below)

*will was in every m*leven’s happy scene in season 4

some of the friendships that can be compared to byler are both steve x robin and max x dustin. at some point, steve and dustin liked robin and max. but you know they’re just friends and their love is mutually platonic.

the major difference is that will is in love with mike. his feelings have been cultivated for many years. it's pure genuine love. and honestly, there are no signs that his feelings are one-sided. mike seems to have sparks in his heart and their scenes were purposely constructed to be romantic.

#byler #byler parallels #byler analysis #stranger things #**

[mizufae]

Considering writing a truly elaborate reverse isekai established relationship older Cleradin comes to Hawkins to meet pre relationship Byler and help El and everyone save the world while also repairing their relationship and getting Mike and Will to smooch while they’re at it.

Lucas’ fantasy counterpart is a prince (this is why he has the horse!) and turns out Erica is a princess and he has to swear Will the Wise and Sir Mike to utmost secrecy that his sister can NEVER find out she is actual royalty in another reality.

Dustin teaches fantasy Will about electricity and they do a magical mourning ritual for Eddie that he would have loved.

Steve invites them to stay at his house but Will the Wise, who is a grown ass man in his twenties, refuses to leave his mommy Joyce so everyone moves in and uses Steve’s house as a base.

Robin has to take fantasy Will aside and explain homophobia to him because he is so incredibly outwardly gay all the time.

Sir Mike and Nancy get along swimmingly because they are both fighters and relentless and he thinks it’s fun to be older than her for once.

There are fantasy to mundane eighties makeovers that upset and arouse Hawkins Mike, fantasy Will is very attached to his terrible wizard hat, fantasy Mike thinks blazers are neat, there are arguments about pants.

El is trying to reach out to fantasy El to repeat the portal accident that got Cleradin to Hawkins in the first place while also trying to help Max and defend against Vecna.

Will is completely flustered at all times by Sir Mike and Jonathan teases him relentlessly.

Sir Mike is an idiot who asks Hopper for an ale and gets his tongue stuck inside the freezer and finally bonds with Mike over the utility of radio communication.

Mike cannot even with Will the Wise who is so curious and outspoken and creative and keeps paying attention to everyone other than him how dare he.

Will the Wise is desperately avoiding picking up Hawkins Mike and squeezing him and ruffling his hair and biting him from cuteness aggression.

Will learns about Cleradin’s romance direct from Will the Wise but Sir Mike never tells Hawkins Mike, but Mike decides it’s worth the risk to follow through on his hunch and goes for it with Will anyway and they have a pre-final-battle first date and it is extremely cute because they deserve nice things.

El gets occasional communiques from her fantasy counterpart who helps her find Max by bringing fantasy Max into the void so El can look for her signature in Hawkins. Fantasy El is a super powerful and deeply weird witch and Hawkins El isn’t sure if she is okay with growing up to be like her and fantasy El is like “of course you won’t! Just by meeting me we’ve changed everything about what you would have been. Everything is changing all the time!” And Hawkins El is like, you are confusing and remind me of my punk sister so I guess that’s okay but please don’t go making any more portals by accident. And fantasy El is like, gosh, you are sooooo serious all the time, fiiiiiinnnneeee. But she makes one little portal a while later after Cleradin gets back home to send their well wishes and ask for Joyce’s meatloaf recipe.

#stranger things #byler #cleradin #WRITE FOR ME PEONS #that’s my fic prompt tag I don’t actually think you are peons #will byers #mike wheeler #el hopper #will I write this? who can say #let me know if you like the idea or have further related ideas

[parkitaco]

for the asks!! 🛒, 🤡, and 🤲 if u have any !!

hi friend!!! i’m gonna answer this in the context of byler bc even tho i write other ships that’s what i’ve been writing the most lately and i assume that’s what you’re asking about <33

🛒 What are some common things you incorporate in your fics? Themes, feels, scenes, imagery, etc.

- ok i lovvvveee a good blue and yellow theory reference, i work it in a lot of the time and it’s not necessarily because i even believe in it all that much?? i just know it’ll make the shippers happy when they see it it’s like a little inside joke yknow.

- as for themes i don’t know that there’s necessarily a certain thing i try to work in, my fics are pretty standalone in that regard, unless you count gay panicking as a theme bc in that case that’s a theme in everything i’ve ever written ever.

- i do use certain settings a lot?? lately i’ve been writing a lot of senior-year post canon type of stuff for byler and for those i like to use the quarry and the wheeler’s basement

🤡 What's a line, scene, or exchange you've written that made you laugh?

- ok forgive me for being like. a little cocky with this ig but this entire fic that i wrote last week?? made me laugh the entire time and might be my favorite fic i’ve ever written, here’s my fav bit of it:

Will turns around, scowling. "Would you stop?"

"Why, does it mean something to you?" Mike asks, and Will flicks him in the forehead.

"I hate you," Will proclaims. "I actually- stop kicking my seat Mike, it's not-"

"Admit it meant something!" Mike hisses, kicking both feet against Will's chair at once. "Admit it, or I'll keep doing this all day-"

"Mike, you are so immature, I can't believe you think I would-"

"I don't think, I know that you-"

"Hey!" Max hisses, twisting around in her chair to scowl at them both. "If you two don't stop fighting like an old married couple, I am going to kill you both and be done with it."

🤲 Would you please share a snippet of a wip?

- oooh yes i love you for asking this bc i’m sooo excited about my wip!! there is not a even a smidge of plot just senior year shenanigans and i love it:

Will opens his mouth, then closes it again, wondering how he can possibly formulate an adequate response to this while Mike lies beside him, looking, for all intents and purposes, utterly unbothered by the whole thing. Will grabs his arm and shakes him. "Mike," he says desperately. "Can you please tell them that-"

"Yeah, yeah," Mike grumbles, sitting up and frowning down at the Party. "Guys, let me flirt with Will in peace, okay?"

The whole world stops spinning on it's axis for a second, and through the ringing in his ears Will can hear Max mutter a gleeful "oh, shit".

"I- Mike, that's not what I- what?" Will chokes out, staring at him.

Mike tilts his head to one side, smirking. "What, that's not what you wanted me to say? My sincerest apologies." He promptly flops back down and closes his eyes again, and Will does his best to act like his entire world hasn't just rearranged itself a little bit.

Dustin sighs. "You guys are the worst."

and this isn’t even established relationship can you believe?? i’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, writing byler pre-relationship is barely different from writing established byler, because they literally already act like a married couple. i hate them (affectionate)

#giggling like an idiot rn thanks for the ask!! #byler #stranger things

[kaypeace21]

DID theory part 3: St novels/comics/spotify list analyses

*read part 2  of DID theory-first! You’ll be lost otherwise, seriously XD. First, I’ll say -I find the ST comics/ books as canon as the st movie inspirations . I don’t consider the books/comics ‘literal canon’ (cause they contradict the show ( like Max and billy meeting a year before s2  in runaway max - but meeting as little kids in s3,  or El’s age being wrong in suspicious minds, in the d&D comic Will’s friends instead of him /Jonathan building castle byers, etc) . 

So I think we shouldn’t take it  literally - but more like the st movie lists - filled with foreshadowing/symbolism and other eastereggs (That the Duffers may have told them to add). So here’s some more (possible) alter / DID hints...

‘Suspicious minds’ novel

- Brenner  equates k*lling rabbits to h*rting kids. And he’ll hurt (kid) Kali (the bunny in the analogy) if Terry tries running away from him . I wonder if Lonnie used a similar threat against jonathan? Jon could be giving only a partial truth to why he cried for a week (about the bunny story)?

-Kali “hops” like a bunny then talks about tigers obsessively (linking her to rabbits/tigers similar to the other alters/Will/Lonnie). Terry also imagines tigers and kali says to Alice they can all be tigers together.

- one of the only male psychic experiments (who can see the future) is gay

- Terry is into lord of the rings, like Will. Has her and her boyfriend dress as sam & frodo (m/m ship). Terry calls her and her friends “the fellowship”.

-when Terry/Alice were injected with d**gs -they hallucinated rainbows.yikes.

- Alice (like Lonnie) is a car mechanic. She can see the future like Will the wise and says “monsters of course my mind has them as long as they stayed in there, everything would be alright? Wouldn’t it?” (in her visions she saw the demogorgan).

 (completed) graphic ST novels (by Jody Hozer) so far  (+ other st comics).

*Jody Hozer writes all the graphic novels (every novel is 4 chapters each) - the will byers comic, number 6 comic , into the fire comic, and at the moment she’s writing the d&d series and the summer camp series (which isn’t done yet). Then there’s the occasional 1 chapter st comics not written by her.

- Number 6 has (the ability to foresee the future like Will the wise/Alice) and has an ab*sive dad. 

When having a nightmare of the demogorgan ...she says as she wakes up “screw you dad” (another hint the demogrgan -aka in d&d means ‘deep father’ ...is Lonnie).

- when number 6 and others run they say they’re’ “rabbiting”(which yes technically makes sense but I found such an uncommon phrase odd.)

- The (summer camp and d&d graphic novels aren’t completed yet) but they establish d&d creatures are based off  real life people the boys don’t like in real life. Or that d&d is used as an outlet to explain true events from their pasts -but they just give the true stories a d&d fantasy slant.

- Which brings me to the halloween oneshot(not by Hozer),taking place before s1. Will tells a scary story told to him by Jonathan, and originally told to him by Lonnie. Says the boys have to keep it a secret cause it was something he was never supposed to tell to anyone. Mike says he has to finish the story he started. It’s about a “ch*lld-eater” monster first attacking a boy near the quarry (like where Will was found) and  attacking kids in a library (where Will was also found in s1).When the child sees the sheriff she bangs on the library door begging for help-he ignores her , walks away, and tells the other cops to never speak of what they saw as she screams for help. Because the previous sheriff was in kahoots with the monster. It def had some ... uh questionable imagery too 0_0

The vine in the mouth is also like the one in Will’s mouth (when Joyce found him in the library).And of course Dustin asks whether or not something like that could be covered up.

- In the “bully  comic” (about troy) also not by Jody. We focus on Troy and his ab*sive dad (who encourages him to fight/ditch his best friend). The dad has a drinking problem (gets fired), calls Troy a “mess” , pushes him, and constantly encourages Troy to be vi*lent/macho. He pretty much tries sabotaging the relationship Troy has with his friend (which I could see Lonnie doing in the future with byler).The dad/troy is framed similarly to when Billy gives Max a ride home-  after both ab*sers give bad advice saying not to hang out with their friend (after witnessing them fight in the school parking lot). Dad also laughs about almost k*lling a squirrel (a trait we see troy mimic)- and we see El feel guilty about k*lling a squirrel in s2. At the end of the comic- Troy (like Will) after making up with his bff james- moves leaving his best friend behind.

-  (into the fire) Twins: (one was normal with no powers living in the real world and the twin with fire powers is trapped in a dark sunless “cold” world styled like a psych facility/medieval fantasy) . pics in link.She hated her reflection cause it reminded her of being betrayed by her normal non powered twin who left her behind in the ‘cold’ place. She’d call herself a ‘hunter’ who would defend herself and attack others to never be hurt again. Her powers being unleashed were described like opening “a door.” And she loves her twin deep down and just wants friends . And fire twin goes to the “other side” to reunite with her reflection and find happiness in the real world. *also there’s sunflower/bunny symbols which she lights on fire-which can relate back to Will/Terry/Lonnie etc. The twins = Will & Will the wise (mf)

Mirrors also connect to Will and Will the wise via the canon spotify playlists too.

Will playlist (song: mirror in the bathroom)-Mirror in the bathroom Please talk free.The door is locked -Just you and me.Mirror in the bathroom recompense for all my crimes of self defense.Cures you whisper make no sense!Drift gently into Mental illness.

Demogorgan playlist ( from perspective of Will the wise aka the mf) (song: are you dead yet? )-”polluted soul through a mirror I behold.Throw a punch, shards bleed on the floor. tearing me apart. but I don't care anymore.Should I regret or ask myself are you dead yet?Wake up, don't cry. Regenerate to deny the truth. The fiction you live in blindfolds your eyes. Disclosure, self loathing, this time you've gone too far.Or could it be, my nemesis, that you are me?

(*st ‘into the fire’ comic. the fire powered twin’s thoughts echo the song)

*I think this foreshadows the later plot points of mf (will the wise ) and Will interacting via mirrors. The fire-wielding twin and the non powered twin had a lot of mirror imagery. Including the fire powered twin (Who denies reality/and imagines herself in a fantasy world) punching her reflection because it reminds her of her non-powered twin. Here’s some cover art from the novels showing how much they emphasize mirrors.

*And in s4 movies Black swan - “the black and white swan twins (two halves of the same person-Nina)” had creepy mirror imagery. In long kiss goodnight the women with DID talks to her “ (supposed)dark 1/2″  via a mirror (in a dream).  in ‘the visit’ the teen girl who’s dad abandoned her when young-  refuses to look in the mirror (and it’s never explained why she hates her reflection). So yes I think we’ll see this in s4 or 5. We already see the mf take on the appearance of Billy when talking to him.

- Will in “zombie boy” comic is afraid he’s a monster.

also lets appreciate the lil byler moment of Mike and Will being the only zombies and mike comforting him. honestly , though, the characters were pretty out of character for most of this 1 ch comic (until the end) tbh.

- in the “d&d comic” mf is  (possibly) described as a “protector” (aka like how i said the mf is probably a perpetrator alter- which are misguided protectors).

*update now that it’s finished... hinting Will created everything subconsciously.

‘Runaway Max’ novel (before s3)

(I didn’t get time to read this book unlike ‘suspicious minds’ -so can’t show screen shots of everything others talked about. May read it eventually)

-Max compares Billy  to ‘her monster’ and a ‘shadow’ that will attack anyone that comes close (mf parallel).

- Dart k*lled a cat,  El’s papa tried to force her to k*ll a cat. And Billy when seeing a d*ad cat lights it on fire for a “viking funeral”. A connection to WW (who has fire powers) and El & dart.

-Max and Billy both are into cars and bond over fixing them (similar to Lonnie’s interest in fixing up cars). And since Lonnie tried to brag to Jonathan about fixing a car up and Will is into tech it wouldn’t be a stretch that Lonnie and Will were into fixing cars together (like Max/billy who would hang out at a autoshop in Cali) .  Similar to Will ,max says hanging with Billy wasn’t always so bad- which made things more confusing to her.

- Max compares Billy being beat up by Neil: to ‘punching a pocket of a baseball glove’. This is interesting since this book was pre-s3 which was when they established the connection of billy and his dad to baseball (similar to s1 saying  Lonnie taught Will baseball).

-Billy’s friend is a nice ‘music snob’ . He tries distracting Max with music while Billy is burning the cat. Which reminds me of Jonathan trying to distract Will from their parents fighting in the next room-with music

- Max’s bio dad is a criminal who takes her to shady bars, and Max fears he’d ‘get bored of her’. Max also ran away from her mom to her dad’s 2x.Which reminds me of Jonathan thinking Will ran to Lonnie’s in s1.

-Max mentions how Billy misses his friends after moving out of Cali. And he starts acting even worse-after the move. Which will probably be the case for Will (at least a bit) when moving to California.

-Billy tells Max Neil isn’t his ‘real dad’ either because Neil can’t be a father to anyone.

-Billy also tells Max who (at the time ) is 12 years old not to act “easy” and breaks her best friend’s (Nate’s) arm over  someone joking he was Max’s boyfriend and also cause Nate tried to get in between Billy bullying Max. Eventually all her Cali friends ditch her cause they’re afraid of Billy.And Ugh- why could I see Lonnie doing something like this in the future with Will/his new friends. 

- Creepily Max says Billy doesn’t fool around with her like other girls not because of her age or being family. But cause she wasn’t ‘attractive’. This whole excerpt gave me the heeby jeebies,on so many levels, honestly.  Almost like he’s jealous- and controlling her cause he doesn’t want Max to have any love interests. Maybe i’m just missing the context? But ugh... excerpt:

Will byers secret Files

-Hopper gets scared by a pumpkin-scarecrow. And in Will’s canon journal when talking about the mindflayer and his nightmares draws the same scare-crow , Hopper saw. There’s also a lot of s4-5 foreshadowing in the book... but that’s a post for another day.

Darkness on the edge of town (Hopper novel)

*didn’t get time to read this (except the preview)

 I think it’s more foreshadowing for future seasons though- cult/supposed ritual k*llings, people being wrongly blamed for those crimes-like the hellfire club , most likely.  (similar to the guy number 3 in the number 6 comic)  saint john in the novel also has the same brain control powers as 3- similar to the mf. .” When a blackout plunges the boroughs into chaos, Hopper must escape the the mobs in the streets to make sure his family is safe and stop Saint John from fulfilling his prophecy.” I already talked about here- how the next few seasons would start having more religious symbolism/a future apocalypse (based on what we’ve seen in the show/s4 movies). Although, i think there’s quite a few differences between (the novel’s) saint john and Will the wise. Hopper is also a star wars nerd like the boys (alter hint)

Canon spotify songs (posted after s2/before s3) hinting at DID/ alter /lonnie stuff-

Will  and Will the wise (aka the mf) being an alter

*Used Will and the demogorgan playlist (which i think has perspectives of Will the wise aka the mf, demogorgan, and Lonnie).

Besides the mirror songs previously mentioned...

Will (cold inside)-Doctor the problem's in my chest.My heart feels cold as ice but it's anybody's guess?Doctor can you help me cause I don't feel right?Better make it fast before I change my mind. Doctor can you help me cause I don't feel right?Better make it fast before I change my mindWell it's cold, cold, cold, cold inside. Darker in the day than the dead of night Cold, cold, cold, cold inside...Counselor give me some advice Tell me how hard will I fall if I live a double life?

El (ghost)-your ghost, the ghost of you.It keeps me awake.My friends had you figured out.Yeah they saw what's inside of you. You tried hiding another you.But your evil was coming through... living in the shade Your cold heart makes my spirit shake.

El (monster Lead me home)-I don't know what, what I was afraid of, I was afraid oooof...Monster take me somewhere...We walk in shadow.Monster lead me home.Where there is no place to hide.Stranger on the other side We walk in shadow.Monster lead me home.

 The’ innerworld’/  other hints Max, El, Hopper, and Billy are alters of Will’s

Max (Logical song)-I know it sounds absurd. Please tell me who I am, who I am, who I am, who I am?

EL(Buzzcut season)-I remember when your head caught flame It kissed your scalp and caressed your brain ...nothing's wrong when nothing's true. I live in a hologram with you Where all the things that we do for fun . Play along (make-believe it's hyper real) But I live in a hologram with you.

Billy (broken bones)-Broken bones.Stay alone. If I see only what I believe -reality's bound by what I conceive

Max (Why can’t i touch it)-Well, it seems so real.I can see it.And it seems so real-I can feel it.And it seems so real-I can taste it.And it seems so real-I can hear it.So why can't I touch it?

Hopper (breakers)-Just to keep me from losing my mind .It's so easy to drown in the dream.Oh, and everything is not what it seems This life is but a dream.Shatter illusions that hold your spirit down ...From the inside, so it seems.Oh, I'm telling you it's all a dream It's all a dream It's all a dream It's all a dream It's all a It's all a dream.”

Max (comfortably numb)-When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye.I turned to look but it was gone.I cannot put my finger on it now.The child is grown.The dream is gone.I have become comfortably numb.

Max (Kids aren’t alright)-Still it's hard Hard to see Fragile lives, shattered dreams...What the hell is going on? The cruelest dream, reality.

El(team)-Livin' in ruins of a palace within my dreams. And you know we're on each other's team

Hopper (denial twist) ( just change ‘she’ to ‘he’)-Just because she makes you feel wrong she don't mean to be mean or hurt you on purpose, boy!Take a tip and do yourself a little service...by playing a different role Ya, by playing a different role, oh.The boat ya you know she's rockin' it.And the truth well ya know there's no stoppin' it.So what, somebody left you in a rut and wants to be the one who's in control.But the feeling that you're under can really make you wonder.How the hell she can be so cold?So now you're mad, denying the truth.And it's getting in the wisdom in the back of your tooth

El (the story)-You see the smile that's on my mouth.It's hiding the words that don't come out.And all of my friends who think that I'm blessed.They don't know my head is a mess.No they don't know who I really am.And they don't know what I've been through

El (hero) ( pretty much alludes to El being a construct of Will’s mind similar to his juju zombies in the d&d story he wrote )-Who knows what you'll find when you look inside (billy’s mind)?Haunted beach (billy flashback), roll the dice.The zombies in the corner aren't amused (d&d ref).Play the part of the blushing bride...Out of view, cloaked by night...My spirit dims, but I feel the force"No longer in my hands,"  (loses powers) .I say to you .I could've been a hero, I could've been a zero.Could've been all these thingsI could've been nothing, I could've had something.Could've been all these things.And if I am unable, tell him that I'll try but underneath the table will spin the wheel and hope for gold. Oh, and where it stops, nobody knows.

Max (it’s real)-I don't know who's behind the wheel.Sometimes I feel like I don't know The deal.But when I tell you how I feel-Believe me when I say It's real.I skated on a frozen Sea.It's real as far as I Can see?

Max (Halloween)-Because your role is planned for you there's nothing you can do.

El (White rabbit... alice and wonderland/lonnie ref)-And if you go chasing rabbits, and you know you're going to fall...When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

demogrogan(Dimensions of horror)-Gaze upon the ancient face you dread (lonnie)... Passing through the doors, into Dimensions Of Horror. Haunting visions from the past, rise once more.Realms of darkness, terror, death and gore.Scream in fear, your sanity is lost

demogorgan (SCHORCHED)-Terrorizing madness. Vivid dreams. internal. Hallucinating the unknown. Abstract entities prey.Through superhuman abilities.Fragments of memory erased.

demogrogan (Calling from a dream)-the shadow king...seven spirits (7 ref) Swarming around his head.Close your eyes.Listen to my call. Our bond will bring us together again.I will wait for you. For our hearts still beat as one.Listen to my calling from a dream. (integration?)

 Maybe a coincidence or a hint at Will having both male &female alters?Billy (dude looks like a lady)- What a funky lady...Oh, he was a lady.Dude looks like a lady. Hopper (turn the page)-All the same old cliches,"Is that a woman or a man?" Max ( rebel rebel) (this was on her her pre s3 spotify list + post s3 “wrapped list”)- you got your mother in a whirl, doesn’t know if you’re a boy or girl? 

 SHIT DAD/ AB*SIVE FAMILY

*trigger w*rning ahead for dark themes like s**ual ab*se

demogorgan (my children)My children I never loved them.Why feel that way when their existence is my business?My children...feral vessals of my selfinterest...So don't lean on me man 'Cause I ain't got nothing to give.Don't lean on me man 'Cause I ain't got nothing to give.My children they're right behind you My children they're gonna beat you.My children if you let them Oh, oh, my children.

demogorgan (black dahlia-window):  I’m not quoting the lyrics you can just look it up.  it’s messed up.Based on the 1st person pov of Gilles de Rais -k**ler and p*d*rest who also kidnapped a cleric.

Will (creature comfort)-Some boys hate themselves.Spend their lives resenting their fathers... hate their bodies .Stand in the mirror (another mirror ref) and wait for the feedback.Some boys get too much, too much love, too much touch.

Jonathan’s Playlist- We’re happy family: “Eating refried beans (poverty). Gulpin’ down Thorazines (pills for a mood disorder). We ain’t got no friends (s2 ref). Our troubles never end. Daddy likes men. Daddy’s telling LIES.”

Jonathan’s playlist-Enter sandman: “Don’t forget my son. Sleep with one eye open. Gripping your pillow tight, Exit light, Enter night. Take my hand, we’re off to never-never land. Something’s wrong, shut the light, heavy thoughts tonight. Dreams of LIARS and of things that will bite, yeah. Hush little baby don’t say a word, and never mind that noise you heard. It’s just the beasts under your bed, in your closet in your head.”

Jonathan (The killing moon-guy sings this)-So soon you'll take me up in your arms. Too late to beg you or cancel it. Against your will!He will wait until you give yourself to him...In starlit nights I saw you.So cruelly you kissed me... unwillingly mine.

jonathan (haunted)-You and I both know that the house is haunted And you and I both know that the ghost is me. You used to catch me in your bed-sheets just a-rattling your chains.Well back then , it didn't seem so strange...In the midnight hour..I was busy trying to charm that snake. When the sun came up we had no place to hide...You and I both know that the house is haunted  yeah you and I both know that the ghost is YOU! You used to walk around screaming, all slamming all 'dem doors Well I'm all grown up now and I don't scare easy no more But you and I both know.

Hopper (Confession)-Now I'm on the low Confession, to a virgin ghost Admission, force you know.

hopper (Tomorrow ) Yeah, and back when s*x and amph*tamines were the staples of our childhood physique.

Max (Last caress)-I got something to say.I k**led your baby today.And it doesn't matter much to me.As long as it's de*d.Well I got something to say.I r*ped your mother today.And it doesn't matter much to me.As long as she spread. (Lonnie pov? Neil?messed up song to be on Max’s list)

hopper House of the rising sun- And my father was a gamblin' man Way down in New Orleans... And the only time he's satisfied Is when he's on a drunk

Max Poor relations-An attitude, no patience, he's paper thin.Talking over everything you have to say...Don't correct the things he said, what's the use?Can't handle violence.Can't handle violence.Learning to love the abuse you can't live without.Your familiar oppression, your daily injustice...That loser man that belongs to you, he's ruling you.

el (sweet dreams are made of this)- Some of them want to use you ...Some of them want to ab*se you.Sweet dreams are made of this...Hold your head up.Keep your head up, movin' on.

Max (Alternative ulster)-They say they're a part of you.And that's not true, you know.They say they've got control of you.And that's a lie, you know.They say you will never Be free, free, free

max In bloom-”Sometimes at night I let it get to me.And last night it had me down and feeling NUMB...And thinking back upon those days Way way back when I was young.I was such a little shit.Cos I was always on the run.Well you know just what they say-Just like father then like son.Don't delude me with your sympathy.Cos I can do this on my own.And this will be the last time-That I break down and wanna crawl to bed. “(since Billy has a playlist I found this song choice being on hers instead of his interesting- in fact almost all of Max’s songs are from the 1st person perspective of a boy unlike the other gals.)

Max (comfortably numb)-The child is grown.The dream is gone.I have become comfortably NUMB.

hopper (numb)-Honey, here I go again Down that crooked road of sin.My momma locked me out again And hung me high to rust under the rain I am NUMB( 8x)....Little bluebird at my window Sing a pretty song for me Don't you know that you can fly, fly, fly away Don't you know that you can leave I am numb.

other psych songs

Hopper (life of sin)-Every morning when I rise I look in the mirror (another mirror ref) and despise the sight of everything and all that I've become. The level of my medicating some might find intimidating But that's alright cause' it don't bother me none.

 Max (Moon over marin)- “Dive in my scalding wooden tub (connects to mf/el)...There, wasn't that a nice visit?Don't forget, a psychiatrist is on duty twenty-four hours a day in the blue room...Drink plenty of water when you take these.Now you can relax.” ( I wonder if stranger writers saying to “drink plenty of water” is secretly a line said by a psych person in s4?)

Max (Feeling ok)-My doctor says that I should take it -At least I won't have to keep faking.I know, someday I'll find it-Where I, I least expect it.Today I know I feel ok.

Max ( Going gets tough)-.No home since the fire.Me and the ash can't settle down...So I sink another round-Placebo for pain.And there's no one for to blame . I refuse to accept-That my work is all in vain...Still always remembering .When the going gets tough .That the labor of our love-Will reward us soon enough.

 Max (Comfortably numb)-Hello? (Hello? Hello? Hello?)Is there anybody in there?Just nod if you can hear me.Is there anyone home?Come on now-I hear you're feeling down.Well I can ease your pain .Get you on your feet again.Relax // Now I've got that feeling once again.I can't explain . you would not understand.This is not how I am. I have become comfortably numb.I have become comfortably numb //Okay (okay, okay, okay)Just a little pinprick.There'll be no more, ah .But you may feel a little sick.Can you stand up?I do believe it's working, good.That'll keep you going through the show.Come on it's time to go// Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.

Explanations of Why the mf  (WIll the wise)behaves the way he does

demogorgan (ww) (Cowards starved)- friends think of me as a priest.I had to show them that the weakest hands Can still make impressive fires. (aka MF = will the wise)

demogorgan (ww) (Unmerciful):I will be reborn...Tranquil demeanor.Now devoured.Surfacing malice...I can't reconcile the torment others bring unto me.I will not take any reproach.Turning the other cheek.Relentless hatred consumes.Control released.Absolved of all compassion.I am free .Look into my hate filled eyes and tell me What do you see?Surging aura of my rage Paralyzing you in fear.

Demogorgan (ww) (bodies-Beaten why for (why for)?Can't take much more.(Here we go, here we go, here we go).One, nothing wrong with me,Two, nothing wrong with me.Three, nothing wrong with me.Four, nothing wrong with me.One, something's got to give.Two, something's got to give.Three, something's got to give now...You're all by yourself but you're not alone...Driven by hate consumed by fear.

demogrgan (ww)-Orbs used as transmitters carry electromagnetic beams from above (affecting magnetic fields in the show).Silence, manipulated, tortured ...How immune is your system of suffering?Its in the blood of suffering (familial ref).Its in the blood.

 Demogrgan (Monster)-I shoot the lights out..Whoa, just another lonely night...None of who you get it, ain't nobody cold as this.A zombie (will ref) with no conscience .Everybody knows I'm a motherfucking monster. Everybody wanna know what my Achilles' heel is? Love I don't get enough of it.

#stranger things #will byers #stranger things comics #did theory

[sevensided]

my clown persona is hoping that the writers were writing mike and el like that on purpose and are going to subvert the trope, since both have fallen into a shallow relationship type that does not match their true potential. but then again I see how popular the ship is, a big marketing asset that the show can't pass. and the writers have proven that they take under account the preferences of the general viewers. i hope I am wrong 🤷🏻 my clown persona always overrides any logical side in me lmao

This is... a very interesting thought.

I think that, honestly, if they wanted to subvert the trope they probably wouldn’t have put Mike and El together in the first place. If they break up and stay broken up, it’s not really subverting a trope: it’s just them breaking up. But I do hear what you’re saying. I tend to subscribe to other theories around the use of junk food and pop culture in S3 to illustrate that the shallowness was universal and entirely deliberate. I also think it’s a comment on American consumerist culture and the rise of Reaganite capitalism (case in point: Erica’s speech). It’s about advertising and about artifice. I’m sure I’m not the only viewer who watched Erica applaud capitalism while cynically thinking about American race relations and the decrepit, dangerous nature of capitalism in its current form. The point wasn’t necessarily to show that she’s young, but to show how powerful the concept of capitalism was at that time, and how hugely influential it was in forming American exceptionalism and its fierce tenets of democracy and opportunity. It’s easy to forget that the 80s were a melting pot of technology, politics, and changing international culture. Hawkins is a microcosm: not only is it the place where the show is set, but it’s also illustrative of the small, middle-American town that is familiar to the 80s cinematic setting.

In terms of the marketing asset... another interesting point. I didn’t know that the Duffers outright admitted to listening to fans - the only instance I can think of is keeping Steve and El around. If there are more examples I’d like to hear them! I wonder how strongly Mileven features in the mind of your average viewer. Outside fandom spaces (the ST subreddit is a great example) most viewers don’t think or discuss the relationships on the show. They do consume the story in a very shallow way (not always a bad thing - that’s just my perspective). It’s only in fandom spaces like Tumblr (not really Twitter) that more in-depth conversations around canon relationships takes place. I don’t think that Mileven has that much marketing value. It’s not really marketed as a romantic show. In fact, I’d say that the themes of family and friendship are the pillars of the story, and it’s those that are most memorable to the average viewer. The writers have taken a lot of care in showing the different types of families (both functional and dysfunctional) and the importance of friendship (especially in S3, when puberty proves to be a key factor in unsettling the established friendship dynamic).

That being said, I take your point in that it is the easy way out to keep Mileven as endgame. It’s what everyone would expect. If you do actually go on the sub and search for Mike/Will and read the conversation there, most viewers have no idea as to the queer coding, and outright deny it. I’ve only come across a few comments that indicate some viewers interpreted the S3 fight/rain scene as something to do with Will’s feelings of insecurity around his sexuality (potentially). But I don’t think that even if Will and Mike got together the fanbase would revolt. As I said before, most people watch the show because it’s inventive and interesting, and it plays heavily on the 80s nostalgia card, which is already in vogue. No doubt there would be some homophobic rumblings, but, you know, society isn’t as progressive as it’s presented online. Homophobia and sexism is alive and well. We shouldn’t kid ourselves in thinking that Tumblr is reflective of common opinion, because it’s just not. And I say this as someone who survived Teen Wolf and Sterek, okay. Like, I remember Sterek being pushed at cons. It was a time.

And look, if you have a clown persona then so do I! I really enjoy these discussions and reading meta and devouring theories, because that’s just one way to enjoy the media you consume. I do think a lot about the relationship between canon and fanon and how creative works like fics or art fill that sense of yearning. If it means anything at all, I am hopeful for Byler. In fact, I’m more than cautiously optimistic: I am quite confident it will be canon. I do doubt it’ll play out as popular theories will suggest, and I say that because we’re not the writers, and we don’t know what’s in store. But there is enough in the source material to suggest that at the very least Will is gay and has feelings for Mike. I do think that Mike is gay (not bisexual) and reciprocates those feelings. But as we stand, canonically, at the end of S3, we can only take what’s given to us, and that is a Mileven cliffhanger.

Tl;dr: In a story about friendship and family that plays on 80s nostalgia, I don’t think Mileven is as large a marketing drawcard as you might think. I also don’t think that general viewers - like, your Joe Average viewer - necessarily care about the romantic lives of pre-teens and early teenagers when the pull of the story is the supernatural. But I do agree with you in that Mileven was written deliberately in S3, and it’s meant to be contrasted against the pre-romantic relationship Mike has with Will.

#byler #byler theory #sorry this is so long! #but you gave me a lot to think about #i love having these discussions #if anything else comes to mind please come trundle into my inbox #because i'd love to discuss this further! #answered #* #Anonymous