okay this is a long ramble and kinda personal, so bear with me, but i want to talk about being aspec in the joker out fandom bc I'm full of emotions and i need to share them somewhere
(just a short warning for internalised aphobia before i go on)
for context, i identify as aspec, more specifically asexual and some flavour of aromantic. I've known about the ace part for about 3-4 years now, the aro part is more recent and I'd say that before, lets say, a couple of months ago, I'd always seen that as something negative, something that makes me miserable, a deficit that will always be there and that others will never understand
and then i joined the (tumblr) joker out fandom around... june of last year, probably? and at first i thought "theres no way there are many queer people in this fandom, its essentially a boyband, and other aspec people? no way"
well, oh boy was i wrong
because not only is this fandom, like what, 90% queer? (i know someone made a poll at some point but i dont remember the percentages) but it's also around 50% aspec. and there's just this general positivity and support surrounding the a-spectrum in the fandom. like, some days ago there was an aphobic comment somewhere and before i even saw it my dash was FLOODED with people defending aspec people and i was just sitting in the kitchen reading through the posts and crying.
and yes, this is tumblr, i could have seen this coming and it's probably different on other platforms, but so many aspec people in one place, in one fandom, is still something that I've never experienced before.
so why are so many aspec people drawn to a slovenian indie/shagadelic rock band that, at first glance, is just 5 very good-looking probably-straight guys making music? that doesnt really make sense, right?
and then you see how much more they are. how they interact with each other. how comfortable they are in their sexualities, in their masculinity, in being themselves. you see a group of friends that love each other so unashamedly it's a bit unbearable to watch sometimes. you don't see them holding back because "thats not their partner!" or "that's reserved for romantic relationships!", you just see love. you see them supporting each other, being physically affectionate, looking out for each other, laughing together, even living together. vse kar vem could easily be a romantic song, but it's about their friendship!!
and what is all of that, if not THE dream of many aspec people? to be okay with not feeling sexual or romantic attraction because you have your group of friends that you love the same amount as allosexual/-romantic people love their partner(s) and to show it, and to know that they love you the same (and won't replace you with romantic partners) because they also show it, without thinking twice about it, without thinking about how others might interpret your relationship because it just doesn't matter as long as you love each other.
so of course aspec people see themselves in joker out. we see hope for ourselves in them, we are probably a little (or in my case very) jealous of their friendship, we want what they have or we just love to finally see real people live with the sort of affection we would like to have. (just to clarify, this is based mostly on what i feel, so other aspecs might feel completely different about this, idk why I'm trying to generalise this)
and this is about all five of them, but to take jan and nace as an obvious example: they love each other so much that the fans start to speculate, and they know about it. but instead of hiding their affection, they just keep on doing what they're doing. because they know how they feel for each other, and it's no one else's business, and they won't be stopping their love just because of "conspiracy theories". and to me it doesn't matter how they love each other (platonic, romantic, whatever), it matters that they do and that you can't help but notice it, because they show it in every interaction we see of them. the damon baker photoshoot just confirmed that, they look at each other and the amount of love makes me cry, it's so incredibly beautiful.
(just some other things i want to mention: them probably cooking mostly potatoes because nace is glutenfree. nace calming down bojan after his panic attack in summer. jan and bojan casually kissing on the lips during a concert. the jure and bojan getting married photoshoot. bojan touching kris's hair during concerts. kris being carried around during a photoshooting. jure and jan drawing a heart together. them gathering around jure's drumset during concerts. i could go on but for my sanity and yours i won't, there are so many moments that just make me soft)
I'd love to be more physically affectionate with my friends, but every time there's this voice in the back of my head saying what society has conditioned it to say, which is that that kind of affection is reserved for romantic relationships, and this voice stops me every time. i feel like bojan, jan, jure, kris and nace either don't have that voice (anymore?) or they've just managed to ignore it, they don't hold back and i admire that as much as i wish i could be like that.
and while i still have a long way to go until i can be affectionate with my friends without worrying about it or holding myself back, joker out have shown me that it's possible, because of them i finally have days on which i think that i can be aspec and actually happy about it. being aspec finally feels as freeing as it should feel and I'm just grateful
joker out has allowed so much queer joy into my life without intending to and although i don't think anyone i know irl will ever understand this, i hope that some of you can relate to this in some way.
I've said this a lot during the past two weeks but i can never say it enough: all the love to my fellow aspecs, and also to all the non-aspec people who support us <3
feel free to add to this if you want to; my dms are always open if you want to talk about it without posting about it, i love hearing other people's thoughts about stuff like this ^^
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I think my one real issue with Vanny and GGY coming back in future installments is just,,, we didn't get any real time with 3 star fam??
Like- we never saw their dynamic, we JUST got confirmation they were even canon only 5 months ago, and now that's all going away before we can even see them interact and we're back to square one with them being Glitchtrapped again?
It's a really interesting concept, Cassie freeing Mimic and getting the two re-Glitchtrapped- I'm not upset about the idea at all, I love it!! I just wish we'd gotten some time with 3 star fam first,,
The best thing I could compare it too would maybe be the Metal Virus saga in the Sonic IDW comics? There were new characters in IDW that we'd basically just met and didn't know a whole lot about, and then they were thrown into a huge climatic saga that felt like it'd rely on us knowing the characters and their dynamics really well and being super attached to them, but we'd practically just met them.
It didn't make the saga bad of course, it was amazing! It just felt like it was way too soon in the comics life span and should've come later once we'd gotten to see more of the characters personalities and dynamics.
Just- TLDR; neat concept neat idea I want to see where it goes, but if that's where we're going next with the series then it was done way too soon and we should've gotten at least one installment with 3 star fam before this arc.
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my verdict on the day of the doctor novelization is that the plot is still so stupid to me but at least i can live my life knowing moffat can write ten marginally correctly but he only keeps it in a novelization where nobody is going to see it. (my personal highlights under the cut)
him. aroace
this is a really good take on the ten and river dynamic, they're acquaintances and ten purposefully keeps it that way. the "time can be rewritten maybe her horrible death that happened in front of me can be prevented if i stay away from her" really goes well with how he's left after the events of journey's end
"he had to stop thinking before it tore him apart!" is THE most ten narration i've seen in my life. i need to eat rocks
this part just makes me really really sad. the dissociation between the tone and what's actually happening (him getting tortured. for months). how he's so clearly not acknowledging what's happening to him (he won't describe the screaming as his own). how he latches onto the only other presence there and focuses on charming her and making her laugh??? this also makes the hinting at a romance between ten and elizabeth that moffat does, extremely fucking upsetting because you can see how ten is just so fucking lonely and on instinct attaching himself to anyone who has any amount of regular presence to him. even if. well. you know. the torture.
like this. see. i need to be shot
you will hear from my lawyers steven.
[coughs up blood]
the "over and over". i need to be put in a blender
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
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Okay feel free to delete this if it's too rude, but. Like. I cannot IMAGINE seeing the words "Kickstarter exclusive rulebook" and thinking, "oh, that's definitely this obscure game console, no other possibilities." Like- what??? That's like if someone said, "Oh, they saw this really pretty book on my shelf" and I was like "Oh, you mean an iPad?" I understand that there are people who don't know ttrpgs have physical rulebooks or don't know what a Kickstarter is, but you'd at least KNOW that there
are things you don't know about and then move on!!! Not, like... assume it's about something in a completely different category along *multiple* axes??????
it's SO weird, they see the words "game system" and "kickstarter exclusive" and their brains shut down leaving nothing but the word OUYA where reading comprehension should be
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S4 Victims: Story by Proxy?
Okay so. In spitballing with Em...something stuck in my head.
So we all know how serial killers leave crumbs because deep down they want to be caught/want the truth to be revealed? Well what if the Duffers, or even current Henry, are doing the same thing. That is, leaving breadcrumbs.
This mainly has to do with the S4 victims, their stories, and the order in which they're chosen.
So, it goes like this:
Chrissy: Abusive mother who resembles Virginia
Fred: Eaten alive by the guilt of being responsible for the accidental death of an innocent.
Max: Suicidal over guilt about Billy's death and her response to it. Billy, who died saving her/while she was saving herself from the Fleshflayer, a regenerated form of the Mindflayer.
Patrick: Abusive father, not much else told.
Max (again): Suicidal Ideation, dies, soul taken, but was revived by El. She's now in some limbo-state, where her body lives but her identity/mind is elsewhere. She will likely be brought back entirely by El in S5.
It almost feels like a story by proxy if we piece it together.
So, let's piece it together:
Person with an abusive mother...feels responsible for the death of an innocent...a sibling who was killed while this person was trying to save themselves from a monster which came from Hawkins lab, which leaves them suicidal...and this person lives in a situation with an abusive father figure. This person becomes suicidal, and their suicide attempt was not entirely successful. They were revived by El, and end up in a limbo state. They may or may not be brought back by El later.
Now, let's collect details about our serial killer:
Abusive mother? Check. (No matter how we frame it, Virginia was not a good mother.)
Innocent died? Check. (Henry has nothing bad to say about Alice, which we know he would if she were not innocent, since he does this with every other victim.)
Sibling died as a result of saving oneself? Check. (The Creel massacre was a situation where Henry was, with whatever intentions we may assign for the other family members' deaths, trying to save himself from Virginia and by extension the lab.)
Ended up with an abusive father figure? Check. (Well...an abusive Papa, one might say.)
Brought back by El multiple times? Check. (El was the one who took Soteria out and brought Henry back from being powerless. El was the one who put Henry in the UD/limbo state. El was the one who opened the gate for his return to the RSU.)
IT ALL ALIGNS. So let's put it together with all the feelings involved:
Citations (I guess? Explanations?) are in the tags listed by number!
Henry had an abusive mother who was at least trying to have him shipped off to the lab, if not actually trying to kill him outright. This situation builds and builds, him wanting to be left alone (1), putting out subconscious and conscious cries for help (2), and her targeting him about it, until March 25th, 1959.
Virginia starts it, attacks, and this time she's out for blood (3). Henry defends himself (4). Virginia, being the parent with powers (5), doesn't actually die (6). Victor, Alice, and Henry go for the door (7). Virginia's on the stairs (8). She's got to finish what she started, since her original plan was botched (9). Henry puts his energy into trancing Victor (10), protecting him from Virginia, since logically two people can't occupy one person's mind.
This leaves good, innocent Alice to fend for herself, standing directly in front of the staircase. She's a loose end (11). Virginia kills her, but can't kill Henry or Victor while the trance is occurring. She figures Henry's going to run himself into the ground (12). She figures she can call Brenner in to collect Henry, like they planned (13). If she disappears, she figures it'll go into the news something like this:
"World War II veteran kills entire family in deranged fit of insanity. Wife missing, presumed dead. Son dies in hospital."
And on both counts, she's essentially right. It does basically go into the papers that way. Victor is taken in for murder, and Henry is taken by Brenner, but not before he sees that Alice was caught in the crossfire (14).
Henry ends up with Brenner, the abusive Papa. He's got the guilt about Alice's death, something that makes him sad and angry. Brenner, maybe, decides to push this in order to increase Henry's powers, but it backfires. Henry's powers increase, but he does...something. He lashes out, he snaps, maybe he even tries to kill himself. He's Brenner's prized pet, though, so Brenner can't let that happen. He seals Henry's powers away with Soteria. It's a death for Henry's entire identity, so far as to have him under the name Peter Ballard. Then comes along 011. She removes Soteria from Peter Ballard...and revives Henry Creel. She then exiles him to the Upside Down in 1979, only to eventually bring him back in 1983 when she opens the Mothergate.
All this to say: It could be his own story, told through the stories of his victims.
Breadcrumbs, or maybe...obvious things, which nobody by any chance ever observes.
Below the cut is where I speculate into motivations for his actions after Soteria's removal, so...not required reading for this particular analysis.
Years of MKUltra torture warp Henry's guilt about the situation into a bastardized, violent, brutal, unethical savior complex based in the notion that he's a predator by nature, but a predator for good. He "saves" the lab kids from a future like his own, filled with nothing but torture. He "saves" El from her ignorance about the lab and intended to have her join him, thereby attempting to "save" her, technically his little sister, from the lab entirely.
He "saves" his s4 victims from their guilt and suffering, which so closely mirror his own, which no one saved him from. I could even go so far as to say he was "saving" Will, who is set up to be so much like him, from a world of horrible people who (from Henry's viewpoint based on his lived experiences) would only serve to abuse and betray him.
This of course isn't to say any of it is right. None of it is right or good...but it makes sense. It follows a pattern. It coheres. The math...maths.
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