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zmediaoutlet · 3 years

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Why do you dislike that scene of Sam and Dean hunting those soldiers? Because you believe they wouldn't be able to take specially trained army soldiers or? I'm sure we're supposed to think that they hunt monsters every day of their lives, humans are easy compare to.

oh, fam. what a hornet’s nest to walk into.

Okay.

So, first: First Blood & Lotus are complete failures of episodes. In writing, execution, believability, filmic decisions. Truly shocking that they got off the storyboard without someone fully laughing out loud and going “great joke!” and then, I don’t know, putting the draft ideas into the urinal in the office bathroom and letting everyone have a go at dissolving them into an ammoniac puddle.

But then they decided to do them. So, unlucky us. So, Lotus is just... risible. Whatever. I don’t have the energy or willpower to think about it. First Blood is so much worse. Aside from how completely fucking stupid the beginning is -- really, this boring-ass montage of who-cares is supposed to be this much of a mental strain to two guys who were in literal hell? -- ugh, I can’t even work up the energy to get as mad at it as it deserves. Blah. So -- stupid, stupid, unbearably stupid premise. Then they escape. Okay, fine. The Billie plot is-- again, unbearably stupid. But then they get out into the woods.

There’s a moment, a bare moment, where it’s the Sam and Dean I recognize. Standing out by that van, being competent in a way that feels grounded. Calling Cas, looking at a map, working together and triangulating their position and figuring stuff out. Grounded. That’s the key word. Sam and Dean were always, always, competent and together and I believed that they could be people because they made decisions and choices that pretty much made sense.

And then.

It’s hard even to put into words what’s so awful, so risible, so deeply embarrassing about the whole... Rambo sequence. First flaw is that they conceived of a Rambo sequence and entirely forgot what the actual movie First Blood is about. It’s not cool. It’s horrible. It’s brutal. Rambo’s hurt and freaked and this isn’t okay, not remotely, not at all. A First Blood reboot done by someone who kind of heard of it once on 4chan and thought “lol that sounds awesome” and never thought about it for more than the time it took me to type this sentence.

Then there’s the awful, awful, awful speech, which was the point of the gifset. Apparently lots of fans thought it was cool. I don’t know what show those fans have been watching. Dean’s liable to drop fake-cool sounding quotes and, you know, it’s not like it was wholly out of character. As my bud is keen to remind me, the double-reference of Cool Hand Luke and Rorschach is very dumb, and it is! It really is! But even the literal writing of it isn’t the main thing that’s wrong with it, even if the speech itself over the stupid walkie-talkie is cringe-worthy bad.

It’s the vibe. That’s what it comes down to. The vibe. An indefinable thing that nevertheless can be VERY wrong when it’s wrong. It was an accumulation of wrong notes, as we marched along through s12, going from okay to bad to what the fuck is going on. The British Men of Letters started neat but became overpowered comic book villains. The Asa Fox funeral where there’s a quirky little universe of hunters, like this is X-Men or something. Lucifer hopping into the President, when a writer with taste would understand that that’s a bridge too far for stakes, and pushes the story into a stupid corner where you have to pretend consequences don’t exist to move past it. And then, and then, and then, you get your two heroes, and you give one of them a gimmicky comic book speech that sounds like he rehearsed it to sound cool in the bathroom for weeks beforehand, and you set them on a fucking cat-and-mouse hunt with the Secret Service, and... what the fuck, was Dabb stoned? Was he eating cheetos off a puddle he’d left between his moobs and playing Spiderman on PS4 and went ‘lol this would sound cool, let’s do that?’ Honestly, I hope so. A thoughtless stupid little digression because ‘hur hur cool’ is better than him actually thinking this through and going, yes, that’s the place I want this story to go. That’s art.

Miserable. And, again, not OOC, not exactly. But there are things you can choose for your characters that feel thoughtful, difficult, adult, and remain in character. Then you can choose things for your characters that feel... like a child’s idea of what maturity is like. A coward’s idea of a brave man. A quivering nerd’s idea of a strong man. The Dean that I see in that scene is just... not the Dean I want, at all. It smacks of the thing that tanked the whole Dabb era. Doing something because for a second it looked kind of cool, until you thought about it at all. Doing something because it was a neat soundbite. Taste out the window; we’re gonna get Dean saying the lamest, most overused, most internet-nerd fake-cool line: you’re trapped out here with us, and I guess because Sam racks his gun and looks faux-grim in the background we’re supposed to take it seriously. I just wanted to turn off the TV.

And then he just kept doing that for three more years. Thank god he didn’t get to ruin the finale, too.

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orionsangel86 · 5 years

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Some honest thoughts...

As many of you know, I have tried to remain very positive lately about the show and the current direction. I have always tried to speak my mind and not mislead my followers especially regarding a topic that we are all so very passionate about. This is why I want to write down some things that have played on my mind lately.

Long post under the cut

I have always been honest about my analysis of the show, and what I interpret as I watch. What I don’t think is made clear enough by many of us meta writers is that sometimes the direction of the show changes, sometimes the change is slow, sometimes it happens abruptly. All we can do is let the show guide us. We let the meta guide US, rather than force it to fit our preferred reading.

The one thing I have always tried to avoid, regardless of what idiots on Twitter might claim, is confirmation bias. I will not let my desire for canonically romantic Destiel endgame affect my meta reading of the show. I ALWAYS force myself to see other perspectives and usually, the show still pleasantly surprises me by loading the subtext with Destiel themes.

I have written several posts on the topic lately to remind you all of my current stance:

My view on canon endgame Destiel (plus additions by others)

My view on the business side of things

My last meta piece on endgame themes in Season 14

Since the announcement that Season 15 was the last, I have suffered a whole range of emotions, and many of those were relating to my fear over Destiel. My desire for it to be brought to text is shared by so many of you, I am just another fan like any of you who desperately wants this love story honoured and done RIGHT. My optimism has constantly jumped up and down from episode to episode, from one PR release to another. I can’t make up my bloody mind.

I’m scared.

I’ll probably be mocked for saying that. I half expect the assholes to grab hold of this post when I’m done and use it to twist my words and attack Destiel shippers with. The one thing you can always count on with absolute certainty is the predictability of the bronlies and *others* who have recently aligned themselves with them. I’ll blow them a kiss now and be done with it.

This isn’t a post to announce a *change* of heart as such, but like @tinkdw wrote this morning my optimism on endgame romantic Destiel is currently at a low point.

Ever since the end of the S12/13 escalation after 13x06, I have had this horrible voice in the back of my head telling me that such an abrupt change of pace probably came from higher up. Suddenly jumping from a heavily romantic Destiel arc to zero Destiel focus was extremely jarring and confusing enough even for the general audience to be confused with.

Since then, whilst we HAVE had quite a nice helping of Destiel elements in the show to keep us going, the lack of follow up on that escalation at THIS point is starting to concern me. There is still definitely intentional subtext being laid down for us to enjoy, but in my opinion it has fallen back into the realm of plausible deniability and the characters can easily be viewed as platonic friends/brothers.

Instead, there has been a drastic increase in the focus on found family and the Winchester family unit lately - centering around TFW being the parents of Jack. Sam, Dean, and Cas have all been presented as three equal father figures to their son, the majority of PR has treated the three show leads very equal, and this in itself is amazing for a show that has so often side lined Cas in previous years. This is still a hug win for anyone who sits in camp “Cas is a lead and this show is more than the brothers”.

I always used to say when Dabb took over, that this was a good thing for Cas fans. I still maintain this stance. Cas is more present than ever as an equal to Sam and Dean, and sure they have their disagreements, but his character journey is integral to the brothers journey now. There is absolutely no way that this show will end without the three of them together - whether in life or in death. If it does, then I will be flinging my laptop into the wall in utter despair.

The latest episode was a heavily emotional send off for Mary Winchester. I was expecting her death, though for a short time there I hoped that perhaps it would be subverted. I feel like she was honoured well, but at the same time I am upset that she was given no choice in the matter, and I will never fully be satisfied with her death as on a very basic level, it was yet another fridging. I also recoiled at the idea that her heaven included John Winchester - after an early season build of a potential new relationship with Bobby (one that was heavily DeanCas coded) this is another change of direction that left me blinking in the headlights. It is another element that has shaken my faith in the show’s ability to logically plot story direction. The one comfort I can take here, is that the John from Mary’s heaven was NOT the actual soul of John Winchester, but a happy memory of him. Mary’s heaven’s front door clearly only states her own name. Her and John have never been actual soulmates - just forced soulmates for heavens purposes. I can’t berate Mary on her happy memories of her marriage, but from a narrative perspective it feels like a regression of sorts, put there purely for sentimental purposes. Had it been clear that it was John’s soul, it would have been far worse and I would be in a far worse frame of mind right now.

I have seen some really great meta on this latest episode talking about how Mary’s death has shown once again the difference between Dean and Cas, and Sam and Cas, and how Dean’s extreme emotional reaction to Cas’s desperate attempt to shelter Jack and the brothers from further pain indicates an emotional bond between them beyond the realm of platonic friendship and brotherhood. I really want to agree with this reading. I do. I can see it, and I agree that this could potentially lead to a discussion between them that is desperately overdue.

But I can also easily see this being overlooked. I can see Bucklemming stomping into the story next episode with their gigantic clumsy boots and crushing all of Bobo’s delicately weaved plot full of call backs, mirrors and poetic symmetry. I can see the DeanCas *conversation* that we have been eagerly awaiting now for nearly 2 whole seasons being once again left behind.

After the series end announcement, I looked back at several episodes that aired recently, and I speculated that the writers have known this since at least episode 300. Too much of what has been said in the scripts since is obviously a message to the fans. Therefore, everything we are currently watching is also already “the endgame” because the writers at this point should start wrapping up loose plot threads and focusing on finalising the character stories. Setting things up for the big finale.

This is why I believe 14x14′s shock end with Michael being destroyed so easily by Jack happened. I seriously doubt that is how it was originally supposed to go. They needed to clear the path for Jack rather than having various different plots running simultaneously like they usually do.

This is also why I am slightly anxious about Cas’s Empty deal. If this becomes a thread picked up for season 15 great, but I can also see them easily resolving it in some outlandish way to instead focus on whatever big final story will be the focus in season 15. I would love Cas’s deal TO be the focal story, and if this happens, I will also regain faith in a romantic Destiel subplot, but I am wavering.

Since the writers knew when writing the current run of episodes in season 14 that the season would wind up and prepare for the endgame, if they intended Destiel to be brought to text, I was expecting something more than what we have got. Perhaps I’m just finally burnt out, but frankly I don’t think that the way Dean treated Cas in this latest episode read as a lovers spat, I don’t see intentional romance being coded into their scenes together, and I certainly don’t see any indication from Jensen Ackles in his acting choices that Dean is struggling with a deep love for Cas vs his grief over the loss of his mum. I see loss, and anger, and an outstanding performance yes, but his treatment of Cas was far too cold. In fact, when I look purely at Jensen and Dean over the past season, his interactions with Cas have all been rather cold in my mind. I’m sorry to say this, and I would welcome anyone reaching out to me to point out examples where this view is incorrect. But compare his interactions with Cas to any interactions with Sam, and the difference is obvious, and not in a good way.

Misha, on the other hand, as always, has spectacularly portrayed Cas’s love for Dean in such an outstanding and heartbreaking way. Throughout this episode his anguish was so evident. He took my breath away, and that final scene when he tries to go to Dean, but Sam stops him, that really made me want to cry.

So I am still confused, and concerned, because where I see Misha continuing to act his heart out in favour of the love story, I see nothing of the same from Jensen - not since early season 13 anyway. If Destiel was truly on the cards, shouldn’t there be more in the way of early season 13? Are my expectations really so high to want something more than mere one sided scraps?

I need to stress here that I understand the many excuses given towards Dean’s sometimes offish behaviour. He represses his emotions, he hides his feelings, he comes across angry when he is worried. He gets aggressive and violent when scared. I know all of this and will accept this IF the next two episodes SHOW me that he is ALSO capable of apology, of the kind of care and feeling towards Cas that he always gives to Sam.

Because we HAVE seen that softer, more loving Dean regularly in Season 14. We have seen outstanding performances from Jensen in that respect - but only ever towards Sam, or Mary, or occasionally Jack. He has never shown Cas that same treatment. Again, I appeal to you, especially to other meta writers, to point out clear examples of where I am wrong. Because I really really want you to change my mind. Show me where Dean is obviously looking at Cas with clear romantic love, where the music sweeps and his face betrays his emotion the way it does for Misha whenever Cas is with Dean.

Of course, there is a rational argument here. That this is all done purposely specifically for the Destiel drama. If this is the case then GREAT. I want it. Believe me I do. But we have two episodes left of this season and one of them will be a huge mess of pacing, action, clunky plot and terrible dialogue, and the other will be the finale which appears to be mostly taken up by Chuck’s return IMO. I can’t see any DeanCas outstanding drama being resolved in the next two episodes. I really REALLY want to be wrong. But if they don’t resolve that DeanCas drama by season end, then IMO the story between them will remain familial. Because a Dean Winchester coming out story in the final season alone just isn’t plausible.

Again, I stress that I want to be wrong here, but the writers knew the end was coming when they wrote these last few episodes, and if Destiel was something they were doing, then they would have written it into the end of this season. I’m not saying I need a canon reveal, but I do need something more than the scraps we have been given if I am to have my faith rekindled.

Don’t get me wrong, I adore all the focus on found family, and I fully expect season 15 to further push the Winchesters to finally show to Cas how much he is part of their family. I even think there is a good chance that we could get his name carved on the table by final season end - following that heartbreaking shot of Mary’s initials next to her son’s in 14x18. But I don’t see it being romantic, if there is no romantic push coming up. It is far too easy right now for the show to reinforce the notion that Cas is another brother. I do love that the story is developing down a clear path where Cas will likely choose to be human and live a human life with his brothers, but brothers is all they will be.

I really hope I am wrong, but in amongst all the speculation of this big Destiel reunion and conversation that is long overdue, I can’t help but remember that we have been waiting for this conversation for nearly two years. Just because fandom remembers and holds on to the overtly romantic S12/13 escalation doesn’t mean a general audience will remember this. They will only see the present, and in the present Dean and Cas do not act like a romantic couple. If another long hiatus goes by without that conversation having occurred, it is yet another gap in which the general audience will forget, and the writers will be able to drop it as they have always dropped it previously.

This is endgame, we can’t afford to have the deancas important plot points dropped anymore. We can’t afford to have their conversations, and apologies, and moments of making up, left in the subtext. We NEED to have that stuff shown the way they show it if it is Sam and Dean.

If they aren’t planning on doing that, then I doubt there will even be a “Destiel” plot to meta about. It will remain in subtext, as scraps, and maybe something ambiguous right at the end as a saving grace in order to not completely destroy the shows legacy once complete.

The further we move away from any substantial Destiel elements, the more and more likely it is that a CW exec already pulled the plug on it. As much as I love Bobo, and still enjoyed this episode for its melancholic poetic beauty, his own bitterness over Wayward Sisters still shows clearly in his writing (in my opinion) and I don’t believe he truly has his heart in it the way Steve Yokey does. I sometimes wonder if his lack of passion for his episodes recently is to do with more than just the loss of Wayward Sisters. Could Bobo also be upset about a “no” on Destiel?

The saving grace here being that Yokey still fills his episode with passion and plenty of queer coding. Yokey is the other person on the writing team who I focus on in terms of accusations of queerbaiting. Yokey certainly wouldn’t queerbait his own community, but unlike Bobo where there appears to be a certain bitterness over his place on the show, Yokey still embraces his role and seems very happy with it. If they had truly been given a red light from the execs, then wouldn’t Yokey also be feeling kinda pissed off that he is working on a show that is potentially going to go down in history as the biggest queerbait since TV began?

Aside from Bobo, which can be explained by Wayward Sisters, there is still passion and joy from the writing team, and if they were truly aware that Destiel wasn’t happening, I don’t think they would be so proud. So maybe there is still hope after all? They aren’t the kind of people to intentionally queerbait their fanbase. Yet Destiel has definitely been an intentional part of their storytelling for years.

I truly hope that the next two episodes rekindle my faith, but right now I have very little hope for textual romance. I am still 100% on board with the found family, Cas is definitely a Winchester and third lead focus that the show has been pushing. It brings me a lot of joy. But yeah, I need a lot more than we are currently getting if Destiel is really still on track.

Sorry guys. Perhaps I am just not quite out of my rough patch this week. I am fickle enough that by next week I could have totally changed my mind again, but as always. These are my opinions, not to be inflicted on anyone else. You are responsible for managing your own expectations. This is how I manage mine.

xxx

#supernatural #destiel #supernatural endgame #endgame destiel #spn speculation #spn spoilers #season 14 #season 15 #my thoughts #they aren't positive sorry guys #14x18 #my opinions #manage your own expectations #these are mine #the great queerbait debate #destiel dreaming

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mittensmorgul · 5 years

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I'm sorry, I didn't mean for my ask to upset you.You're a terrific writer & I love your meta! For awhile, I've been having a hard time reconciling the show's original "humanity" theme with what's happening now. Jack's almost invincible & has God-like powers. He singlehandedly took care of Michael, Nick, Lucifer & is teaming up with 2 other supernatural heavy hitters. I like Jack but TFW's my jam. So I hope you're right that they'll still be important, even if they're not special with superpowers

It’s okay, I’m fine, really :D

I guess I’m just confused as to how the humanity themes aren’t still being well represented, considering 14.20. I mean... Dean, a human, literally snatched the guitar out of God’s hands and smashed it. He stood there, thinking there was literally no other choice but to kill both Jack and himself to save the world. After he spent more than half of s13 thinking HE needed to die or be locked in that box to contain Michael and save the world. But in the end, he literally stood up to God and said NO. No he would not destroy himself and Jack for Chuck.

(and then Chuck went ahead and killed Jack anyway)

Dean, a Human, has spent the entire season telling cosmic beings to shove it-- Michael, Billie (re: him getting in the Ma’lak box), Chuck himself. While Jack was human for a while and then finally bonded with Dean and became family to him.

But as I’ve been writing for a really, really long time, the A Plot, the defeating of the seasonal big bads, has long ceased to be the point of the show. I’ve written several things in the last few weeks about how it’s undeniably clear now that Dabb has been writing toward this endgame since he took over back in s11, and has been exploiting the show’s own spiral narrative to do it.

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184788264850/i-will-always-maintain-that-dabbs-finales-titles

here’s a post linked in the one above that I wrote right after 12.23 aired, pointing out the fact that watching this as if it was a plot-driven narrative would lead to frustration and like... missing the whole entire point...:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/160988290690/12-while-i-do-not-ask-this-to-be-negative-at

I mean, I’m sitting here watching 13.01 right now, which from the perspective of post 14.20 looks like a freaking bookend... in pretty much every way. Dean’s prayer to Chuck which goes unanswered (which feels like the complete opposite sentiment toward Chuck that Michael will express, the opposite of what Lucifer expressed), Sam begins to teach Jack how to Human, but also to help him understand his own powers.

All of this was supposed to stop after 11.23, after Dean found a peaceful reconciliation for the original divide of the universe. Chuck promised the world would be okay without him, but it wasn’t. The hits kept coming, and in 14.20, we learned WHY:

Chuck: Listen, you guys know me. I'm hands-off. I built the sandbox -- you play in it. You want to fight Leviathans? Cool. You got that. You want to go up against -- what was it? -- the "British Men of Letters"? Okay. Little weak, but okay. But when things get really bad, like the Apocalypse or the Other Apocalypse, that's when I have to step in.

This was still Chuck, watching his favorite show, watching his guys reenact his favorite story over and over again. We’ve complained for literal years about Lucifer being a one-note, boring Big Bad, because he was. Intentionally. People were disappointed in the whole Michael storyline, because it was never really made clear what his motivations were, or what his plans were outside of the completely nihilistic desire to break everything Chuck ever built. He sounded just like another tired rehash of Lucifer’s storyline since s12:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184740345285/im-watching-1207-on-the-tnt-loop-and-yeah

and see this for Dabb As Death, his chosen in-story avatar, the way Kripke was Chuck and Carver was Metatron:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184557290140/death-is-one-of-my-favorite-characters-in-the

Dabb literally introduced Billie in 11.02, singing O Death. He killed her in 12.09 and then leveled her up to the mantle of Death. That’s Dabb’s function in the writer’s room... started out as just another writer, stuck around paying very close attention to the characters, through every other showrunner’s tenure, and finally leveled up himself to showrunner where he is calling the shots, and will be the one to finally end the show. Well he’s already ended the long spiral of Chuck (Kripke’s) original story. Considering how long the loop has been looping, there was really only one way to stop it: narrative syzygy and the sudden dropping of the curtain in such a way that TFW can finally see the Big Narrative Spiral for what it is. For the complete Cosmic Runaround they’ve been put through over and over again for Chuck’s entertainment.

Big Bads from the Leviathan to the BMoL to Lucifer to Michael to Asmodeus to even Crowley sometimes, to the alternate universe’s apocalypse have all been rendered secondary to what the actual point was-- the gradual character growth for Sam, Dean, and Cas.

Sam, Dean, and Cas are the characters we care about. They’re the reason we continue watching this show even after 14 years. I wrote a post the other day about this:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184829064145/why-is-every-piece-of-media-now-about-surprise

and here:

https://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/184459635020/you-know-what-i-love-dabbs-vision-for-spn-he

and quoting myself from that second post: “Viewers don’t identify with apocalypses, we identify with the characters who survive them, who save the world from them, you know?”

But see, I think looking at the show as “must defeat the big bad, this is what’s important” is literally missing the entire point of watching. THAT is what Dabb wanted us to take away here.

First off, it was Dean who killed Lucifer, by finally saying yes to a version of Michael, but then Dean lost to Michael internally. He eventually DID defeat Michael inside his own mind in 14.10-- with the help of Sam and Cas. I mean... TFW victory, right? And then he spent several episodes struggling to keep Michael contained.

And all of it, in the end, when the three of them stood there facing God, was pointless. Pointless in the plot-narrative of defeating an endless string of Big Bads. Discovering that no matter how well they succeeded, no matter how many people they saved, Chuck would just throw another wrench into their lives and start the story again. Every time they thought they were finally winning, finally allowed themselves to think about their lives reaching a sort of stasis where they went out on occasional hunts and handled them easily, and even considered the “toes in the sand” sort of break from hunting where the world wasn’t constantly trying to end itself... Chuck would just toss another Cosmic Catastrophe at them.

And Jack... was one of those Cosmic Catastrophes.

(which is why no matter how much he’s become family, no matter how important he is to all of them, no matter how much they’ve all grown by their relationship with Jack, he’s still in a different narrative category than our Three Heroes)

I don’t know what Jack’s fate will be at the end of the road, but what I do know is that for the rest of TFW-- for Sam, Dean, and Cas-- s15 will absolutely be about their very human wants and needs, and their final release from Chuck’s eternal cosmic spiral. 14.20 was about their individual awakenings to this fact of the universe, this fact of their entire lives having been engineered entirely for the original creator’s entertainment. Only now can they truly fight for THEMSELVES, instead of fighting to stop an apocalypse and save the world. For the first time EVER, they are fighting for their OWN humanity.

I really really hope this makes sense. There’s only so much yelling I can do about this. :P

#spn 14.20 #spn s15 speculation #that's what free will is #dabb vs cars #this is literally the story on every single possible level yelling this at us #and i don't know how to make that any clearer #Anonymous

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dustydreamsanddirtyscars · 7 years

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i follow a lot of meta writers who say dean's story doesn't make sense without destiel. for example, amara was about exposing how dean felt about cas; the heart stuff how she found dean by touching cas' heart follow your heart all that. i ship destiel but don't think it will be endgame (wish it would be honestly). can i ask what do you think dean's story is without a destiel exposition? Do the amara and MoC and Mary story lines make sense without it? What is Dean's personal story and endgame?

Dear anon,

first and foremost what I want to emphasize going into this reply is that people can take away whatever they want from the show and read it in a way that suits their viewing of what happens on screen. All of what we see in those 45 minutes of television is influenced and shaped by our own experiences and interests, by the things that speak to us and move us or the aspects and topics we deem important. For that very reason readings and views will always differ simply because we all have our own focus. Things that stand out to one person, aren’t important for another for the sole reason that we tend to latch onto and project what moves us most into the narrative and analyze what plays out in the episode accordingly. What I mean is: it’s natural to disagree, there isn’t such a thing as ONE and ONLY ONE RIGHT reading. And there is nothing shameful or wrong about disagreeing with someone else, it’s all about how one expresses those differences of opinion. No one is better or worse or stupid for not seeing what someone else may see that doesn’t fit to your personal impression and perception of the show. In short: Live and let live.

The reason I am prefacing my reply with this long, more general ramble is due to the fact that I feel the fighting within the fandom over “right ways of reading and watching the show” or “people being too stupid to realize the show is saying this and this and not that and that” has gotten to a ridiculous and toxic point in which tolerance is lacking all around and on all sides and is seriously tiring to me, because it is just mind baffling to me why people can’t just be happy with what they read and see in the show and share it with the ones who see it similarly, but have to force their views on everybody else and get nasty over people having another view and takeaway than them and throwing around insults like there is no tomorrow.

With that all out of the way, let me tell you my view on Dean’s story. And just to make that clear from the get go :) no, I don’t think Dean’s story only makes sense when taking Deancas into account. It’s alright for me, if people argue that and feel that way, but to me it’s simply not the case and also imo takes away from Dean as a character in his own right.

I enjoy(ed) Deancas and like interactions between Dean and Castiel (though tbh since S11 to me a lot has changed and I no longer feel passionate or strongly about them, because to me the writers and how they handle the relationship atm is just too hollow and soulless for my taste, it simply no longer has the depth and “spark” for lack of a better word that it used to have in seasons prior, which still speak to me and move me when it comes to these two characters), but I do truly take issues with people arguing that Dean or his story only makes sense in relation to Castiel. I have the same issues with people arguing that Dean’s story and Dean only makes sense in relation to Sam. Of course both people are relevant to Dean’s story, but to me another person/characters should never be the most important thing about another character. So yeah, both of these viewings are the same to me in their essence, because in both cases it discredits Dean as a character in his own right in measures and ways I personally find very sad, because it belittles Dean. And Dean is much more than the people he loves (and this actually one aspect that is actually part of the show for Dean to realize) and that is kind of one of the main things that I personally feel relevant for Dean’s arc and possible endgame: seeing himself as worthy and important unrelated to any other person/character.

[[This week’s episode imo has highlighted a great deal how I personally see Dean’s story spanning from the first season onwards and what his struggles were and are that need to be overcome for him to be happy (if you browse my 13x03gif tag you’ll find all the meta I already wrote on the topic).]]

It may be for the very reason that Dean always puts others first and worries about them that people tend to see Dean only as an extension to another character. To me personally therefore one of the main things that has been explored heavily all throughout Carver Era and with that the Moc and Amara arc is addressing how “unfree” Dean has been all his life and how he has never truly listened or maybe even truly found out what he himself wants and is without the people he “cares for” (that is btw one huge point that was made in this week’s episode when Kelly told Jack that he didn’t have to be like his mother or father, but just himself and how this drastically differs to Dean who has been both unwanted - see meta and gifs for that here), because that very aspect - Dean thinking he needs to be this or that (mother, father and brother from age 4 onwards - as he himself openly now emphasized wasn’t fair) - has become Dean’s entire “reason for existence”. He thinks of himself as only useful when he can be of service and that is one tragic and horrible way not only of thinking about yourself (as unworthy, etc.), but also to live, because as the show has highlighted again and again when Dean feels like he cannot be of help, he thinks he lacks a reason to live and slips even further into a depression that is always glowering there just underneath the surface.

Due to all of what I mentioned just yet, I personally find it highly unfortunate that some people tend to make Dean all about Sam or Cas, because it falls completely in the trap that causes Dean so many issues since he himself only views himself as an extension to someone else, but that by no means means that that is right - quite the opposite. And that is also one of the many issues I have with Dabb’s showrunning and S12 in particular as in seasons prior the narrative addressed the discrepancy of Dean feeling like he matters least, etc. but that the characters around him constantly showed that that is not the case, but only something happening inside Dean’s head. Now S12 blatantly made it text that Dean does indeed not matter himself and I will never not be absolutely disgusted about that, because throughout the entire season we saw Dean put down, his emotions ignored, lied to (really, the way the season started, Mary trampling all over her son, is so emblematic of what happened throughout the entire season as well) and none of the treatment he experienced got corrected in the end, but Dabb friggin decided that it is a stellar idea to have Dean only briefly express how his mother’s death shaped him and messed him up (and yes, I get that it is in line with who Dean is and how he thinks so little of himself and putsothers traumas and needs first while ignoring his own, because they seem less important - see how that narrative thread runs through the whole show?) but that ultimately Dean as a person once more would disappear by making it all about Sam and talking about how Sam suffered (never mind Dean did and does too) and it also only then that his friggin mother is showing any kind of interest in her son. Only when her one son talks about the other son. Yeah, nice work there. But really, what took the cake for me with all that was how Mary didn’t even wrap Dean into a hug when he fucking saved her, but she opts to fall into Sam’s arms. Sorry, but gahhhh, I’ll never not be epicly pissed off about this.

Considering all this I am not surprised when people tend to think Dean has no story of his own or that it doesn’t make sense without Deancas or Sam on the other hand, but to me as someone who is most interested in each character in their own right much more than in any possible pairing, it is frustrating, because you feel like you are an island and belong nowhere. But sorry, I got caught up in my disliking of S12, I’m trying to get back on track now.

So given all that and the whole aspect of Dean’s “lack of freedom” due to feelings of responsibility are a huge aspect that to me was integral in the entirety of the MoC arc and the Amara arc as to me it explored Dean’s feelings of inadequacy and showing and exploring how Dean may have always been the main symbol for “free will”, but rarely has had it himself. In that regard, and I know this may be an utterly unpopular opinion to many, I have always analyzed Dean’s MoC arc and his time as a demon as a sort of “rite of passage” that served as a setting stone for Dean’s liberation, because it was as a demon that for the first time Dean only did what he himself wanted. It’s of course just one small aspect of a much more complex overall storyline, but to me it is an integral part nonetheless. Dean wasn’t happy as a demon by a long shot, but he did only what he wanted without feeling bad about having wishes of his own.

During the MoC and Amara arc Dean’s lack of independency from the people closest to him was amplified by making Dean unable to control what happened within himself when he held the blade or was in Amara’s closer vicinity. He was other directed, a puppet that got its strings pulled and that thread has been an integral one for Dean since we saw him strung up in Hell and torn apart (literally) by ropes tearing him apart every which way. To me there couldn’t be a more fitting and sadder visual for how Dean spent his entire life: caught in the middle, trying to keep a family together that drifted apart and getting torn apart and ending up hurt and damaged by trying to keep all of it together.

So in a way Dean losing his agency to the mark and then later Amara was just the utter extreme of showing how Dean for most of his life has not lived and done what he himself wanted, but what others needed him to do. The theme is right there, right from the beginning of the show and culminates for the first time in S4 and S5 when Dean rejects to become and be what Heaven wants him to be. The same strength he showed in relation to Michael, he never was able to show when it came to things his father demanded of him for example. There is a a famous scene where Dean articulates that himself in “Sacrecrow” in S1

and it comes back up here and there across the seasons when Dean expresses that he wished he would have stood up against their father more, etc. - the entire episode 9x06 “Bad Boys” also shines a huge light on that whole topic as we get a glimpse of the Dean there, who was allowed to be just a teen without feeling burdened and responsible to join his father’s fight.

For me Dean’s entire arc spanning over the course of the show is a storyline about self discovery about coming of age and coming into his own (an no with that I don’t mean a “coming out”-story, though of course it could be worked in or rather go hand in hand with that, but Dean’s sexual liberation to me has never been an integral topic from the beginning of the show and explored deeply until now, whereas the other has - again everyone is open to disagree with me, I have no problems with anyone reading it different, but this is just my personal feeling on the matter). It’s a narrative focusing on identity for someone who has never truly had the chance to become who he would have been if he had never had to be what others needed him to be. Phew… that was a weird sentence, lol. Anybody else got a knot in their brain now? ;)

And last but not least (though frankly I could write like 10 times as much as I already did since this is such a complex question) since you bring up the heart symbolism. I don’t mean to piss anyone off, but the heart symbolism as such has been surrounding Dean long before Castiel even came into the show (and it’s one of my favorite topics aside from “Dean as a christ figure” and I’ve written countless meta on that topic - I’m gonna leave a bunch of links to metas behind the cut at the end of this meta, for anyone who is interested in talk about heart symbolism, liberation, Amara and MoC arc etc. - some may even feature Deancas, but 95% are just about Dean - it is by no means all I have written on the topic, but a good start), so to me - while I have no problem with people connect the heart symbolism in recents seasons to Castiel and Dean - they aren’t connected to another character at all, but are solely a symbol and metaphor for Dean as a character, because Dean’s heart has always been his biggest asset, but also what makes him so vulnerable. Dean is the “heart” of the show, as he serves as the PoV character. But most of all the heart symbolism surrounding Dean to me also belongs to the whole identity thread. It is also after all that Dean’s metaphorical death and re-emergence as a demon as a stepping stone to his liberation and coming of age (the healing part is still hopefully to come) is brought on by him dying by being stabbed through the heart…

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/121901277911/this-is-easier-some-more-thoughts-on-the

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/69379178845/dean-winchesters-heart-is-a-puzzle

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/131476588721/11x02-form-and-void-shes-a-miracle

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/98552189146/this-is-a-story-a-marvelous-story-full-of-love

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/87629591461/go-right-ahead-put-a-blade-through-your

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/67585667715/of-werevolves-tin-men-dean-winchester-and-his

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/110615479616/dustydreamsanddirtyscarsdeans-physical-and

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/66175602035/things-about-9x05-dog-dean-afternoon-3

http://dustydreamsanddirtyscars.tumblr.com/post/127498203661/the-original-serpent-3

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mittensmorgul · 7 years

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My boyfriend admitted yesterday after finally watching 13.1 that Dean and Cas DO love each other. He has no doubt in his mind that if Cas were female, Destiel would have happened. BUT he sees Dean as straight and doesn't believe anything could happen with Cas in Jimmy's body. I told him that this is heteronormative bi erasure and that as a bisexual, I find it offensive that he makes that assumption. What if these sorts of casual viewer opinions keep Destiel from ever happening? I'm losing hope.

Hi there! And congrats to your boyfriend for seeing the love there. :D

First off, no offense to straight dudes, but the straight dude I’ve been married to for 20 years has absolutely no sense of bifi. Or gaydar. I mean, if he sees two dudes kissing at Pride he’d pick up on it (and there are a few famous people who came out that he wasn’t surprised at all about– George Michael, Rob Halford, he was shocked that anyone was shocked…), but when it comes to closeted bisexuals who deliberately do not want to be detected, especially the way Dean performs dudebro heterosexuality as well as Dean does especially in early seasons, he just has no clue.

*insert that gif of Sam telling Dean he’s overcompensating*

The things about Dean that have been screamingly obvious because I relate to them from personal experience just don’t register to a straight dude who has never once questioned his sexuality (like Sam, for instance). To a person who has experienced it first-hand, a lot of Dean’s behavior reads as signal flares as bright as day. If it were only used for the occasional joke, or rare random things that didn’t fit into a much larger pattern, or if it were just enough to make me sit up and notice once or twice a season, I’d assume it was just a coincidence. But… it’s not a rare random occurrence. It’s something we see in nearly every episode, more and more blatantly as the seasons progress.

I tell everyone to read this:

http://destielhiseyesopened.tumblr.com/post/102023741956/slash-and-subtext-series

It’s a lot to read, yes, but it’s incredibly thorough and the sort of thing your neck will be sore from nodding along in agreement the entire time. :P

As for whether or not the show will go there, which NONE of us can say for sure, the one thing I can say for sure is that it will not be casual viewer opinions that will influence Dabb’s storytelling. He’s said it multiple times, that he’s going to tell this story his way, whatever that might mean in the end. Dude’s not telling. I mean, look at him:

So while it’s great to have hope, because we DESERVE representation in blatant and clear terms, there is no guarantee that we will actually GET it. I mean, that is a very real possibility. It’s why I personally don’t watch the show with any expectation for ANYTHING, you know? Then every new hint that they are taking this somewhere is a pleasant surprise. For me, watching from the standpoint that I EXPECT a certain outcome is just not an enjoyable way to live. It’s just too much to stress about.

And as I’ve said over and over again, just like Dabb, I personally couldn’t give a flying fuck with the mysterious “general audience” sees when they watch the show. I watch because of what *I* see in the show, because I like analyzing the story, writing meta (with the friendly reminder that “meta” has exactly zero to do with predicting the future of the story… that’s speculation, and aside from being able to read obvious twists and turns in near-future plot points, or understanding general character development arcs and where they could potentially be headed in vague general ways, I DO NOT ENJOY SPECULATION, especially when it involves the sort of detail that a lot of more casual fans seem to expect of meta writers. I AM TIRED OF FOLKS HAVING THE IMPRESSION THAT SPECULATION AND POSITIVITY FOR THE FUTURE OF THE SERIES AND CHARACTERS IS “”””META”””” BECAUSE IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT.

Sorry for yelling, I needed to put that out there. Comments of “I love your meta!” when referring to headcanons and speculation about endgame destiel is just… missing the entire point. The meta is the long academic character analysis, the comparisons with the current arc to past canon, the examination of episodes THAT ARE ALREADY PART OF CANON. Looking to the future to make guesses about what COULD happen in the future is SPECULATION. NOT META.

I’m so tired of people who do not understand that giving meta writers hate and dismissing EVERYTHING we’ve written because a “prediction” didn’t come true on the show exactly as someone wrote it… A guess of what will happen in the future that doesn’t quite pan out doesn’t invalidate all the ACTUAL meta we’ve all written over the years. Because just like pr is not showrunning, speculation isn’t meta.

*even when the speculation is attached to the bottom of a really long meta post. The speculation bit isn’t the tl;dr of the post. it’s the interesting and fun little bonus bit after you’ve consumed the factual part of the analysis. It’s the little blop of whipped cream on top of the pie that is the actual important content. It’s mostly decorative and just a bit of fun.*

Thanks, this has been a meta writer PSA.)

The point of all that is that none of us have a crystal ball, none of us have some secret insider information into Andrew Dabb’s brain. Despite the fact that we’ve been watching his storytelling over the last 8+ years (yes, he’s been writing for the show since s4, and has written more episodes of Supernatural than any other writer, so we have A LOT of history to look over, not to mention all of s12 and the back ~third~ at least of s11 after he silently took over the showrunning from Carver to look at when trying to understand his pet themes and how he writes), the best we can do is make educated guesses.

I’m not basing my hope for canon on some ability to read the future, I’m basing it on MY ability to look at the entirety of extant canon and be objectively logical about where the story started, where the story is NOW, and as far as individual character development arcs based on having watched them all evolve over twelve plus seasons already…

Well, let’s just say that for *me,* I can see the characters have been on a logical emotional progression over the course of the entire series (that would be the “meta” part of things). As new canon unfolds, and characters continue to develop and interpersonal storylines continue to evolve… here’s a metaphor. The writers are walking the characters down a long hallway with loads of doorways open to potential future development arcs. As they walk past each doorway and don’t veer off course, it’s like they’re closing off logical possibilities to detour into alternate routes. They’re slamming and locking those doors up forever. The closer we get to the end of canon (in whatever nebulous future that the series will reach its end, and NONE of us know when that will be right now), the fewer doorways are left to walk past, and the less logical any detour from what looks (again, from reading the meta and looking back at the entirety of past canon) like the steady progression of development would be.

Does that make sense? I mean, they’re writing themselves into a corner (or into the end of the hallway where there’s only going to be one last exit door to walk through). But again, as long as there’s still hallway ahead of us, they could take an “easier” route or just decide to stop walking altogether and just sort of set up camp at their current point in character development. It wouldn’t really be sensible for the STORY as it stands right now for them to do either of these things, because if they start backtracking looking for a different door the entire narrative falls apart. Whatever they do, they must keep writing forward.

*stops and scrolls up and cries a lil bit at how much I wrote*

Point is, we just don’t know. I’m hopeful, I feel like we DESERVE to be seen and this love story absolutely DESERVES canon acknowledgement for what it is, and that every sign in past canon and every sign the writers are continuing to carry on down this hallway is pointing to it happening at some distant point in the future… but as of right now none of us have any idea what that eventual resolution will look like. What even is canon?

I mean, your boyfriend said he sees that Dean and Cas love each other. Is that canon? What would “qualify” as being legitimately canon? I love @bluestar86′s spec post about how easy it would be to make Dean’s bisexuality textually canon, but I have no idea if we’d ever get an episode stating it so blatantly. We might, though. We did have Dean asking a gay married couple what it was like settling down with another hunter…

The point is, even trying to speculate on what will happen in the future– especially something so unknowable and distant as “endgame,” is honestly impossible. We have no idea what will happen in canon between now and then in specific terms. In the meantime, I’m perfectly content to point and flail at what is actually happening in canon right now and paying exactly zero attention to what “casual viewers” think they’re watching.

I know exactly what I’m watching, and I love it.

Will they ever make it undeniably obvious and clear in canon? I mean, it is undeniably obvious and clear to *me* but everyone has their own personal biases and wishes and checklists of things they feel must happen, and no matter if the series ends with Dean and Cas getting married there will still always be people who deny it was “enough” to make their relationship obvious, you know? I just… don’t have the energy to deal with that level of denialism. It just stresses me out to worry about what “endgame” might look like specifically when as far as we know, “endgame” isn’t even on the table yet.

So by all means, if you can, take that small step back and try and enjoy the continuing story, and don’t put too much stock in anyone’s opinion of what may or may not happen in the future. But most of all, don’t put much much stock in what random straight dudes in the general audience think. Because Andrew Dabb doesn’t. :P

Wow okay that turned into a treatise…

#spn meta meta #revenge of the subtext #the destiel #destiel #the scheherazade of supernatural #carasauruswrex #this is an andrew dabb appreciation blog (except when it comes to car stuff)#dabb vs cars

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