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wangxianficfinder · 1 year

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Fic Finder

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1. Not sure if this is ff or itmf, because there is a specific fic I lost, but also just want a general trope. I'm looking for fics where WWX's resentful energy is into/gentle with LWJ, and LWJ welcomes it, like allowed it to touch him, touches back, maybe they use it during sex. It doesn't have to be right away, just him eventually accepting that the resentful energy is an extension of WWX. (Particularly looking for a post 13/16 year fic with this idea and WWX being shocked over how unbothered LWJ is about it, bc he still thinks LWJ hates him. Also something to do with LWJ's scars and the energy making the not hurt? Idk feel free to split this into two asks!)

FOUND? the described story sounds like the anteroom of golden age by everythingispoetry (M, 92k, wangxian, canon divergence, disability, recovery, mental health issues, grief/mourning, hurt/comfort, families of choice, developing relationship) where resentful energy m akes LWJ's scars hurt less, though it's only one event towards the end of a long story which is itself the last of a series!

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2. hello i hope you all are doing great! im looking for a fic where jgy's crimes were exposed in a discussion conference i think. and he was trying to tell jc about the golden core transfer to keep the spotlight off himself but jc already knew and he told the conference himself. im trying to remember the plot but alas. thank you for all you do it's very appreciated ♥️♥️♥️

FOUND! A Narrow Bridge by FrameofMind, Jo Lasalle (Jo_Lasalle) (E, 700k, WangXian, Time Travel Fix-It, Canon Divergence, Slow Burn, Getting Together, First Time, Pining while fucking, Burial Mounds Settlement Days, Angst with a Happy Ending, CQL Verse, almost everybody lives/almost nobody dies, epistolary-ish, canon-ish side pairings, radishes) sounds like it could be narrow bridge. Wei Ying doesn't want to tell JC but Lan Zhan insists and they argue about it. If that sounds familiar? It happens very far into the fic.

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3. A) Hello! Looking for this fic: Just before he dies, Wei Ying sees Lan Zhan being severely injured (really bad wound through the chest). When he resurrects later on, he's certain that Lan Zhan is dead, and he's pissed about it. But Lan Zhan isnt dead, and they find each other. Its a darkish fic with wangxian being quite in love but kind of a murder couple. Lan Xichen is kinda bad here. Meng Yao gets his head chopped off. I cant find it anywhere, it might've been deleted... Help? 😳

B) Looking for this fic: It happens during the Burial Mounds settlement days. Lan Zhan comes to visit. Someone attacks Wei Ying with a spell but Lan Zhan protects him and is hit instead. It starts de-aging him little by little (mentally not physically), taking back a few years at a time. (I think every time he sleeps he loses more years...) Wei Ying takes him back into the settlement as he tries to cure him. Lan Xichen joins them at some point... I can't find it! 😢 @dreammaiden21

3A)

FOUND? you soothe me just to torture me again 🔒 by PrismaticAvocado (M, 4k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Dark WWX, Dark LWJ, Dark LSZ, Dark LXC, Dark LQR, jc is honestly not that much darker than in canon if at all, Murder Husbands, Torture, Homophobia, WangXian Get a Happy Ending, almost everyone is bashed somewhat except for wangxian and a-yuan be warned, JC Bashing, WWX Lives, BAMF WWX)

3B)

FOUND! Rosemary and Thyme by The Silverfish (ZephyrAndTheSilverfish) (T, 45k, wangxian, burial mounds settlement days, memory loss, talismans, hurt/comfort, angst w happy ending, fix-it, recovery, panic attacks, fluff)

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4. Hello, I'm looking for a fic where Lan Wangji raises the Lan disciples to express their emotions healthily. I remember it ends after WWX's resurrection with Lan Wangji crying really hard.

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5. hello dear mods im in need of your help again. im looking for a fic where wwx finds his uncles who are his father's brothers, also apparently he comes from a rich family. he's already married to lwj iirc by this time iirc. i can't recall the plot so idk what tag to search or what compilation it's in 😭😭 thank you very much for all you do

hey im 5 on the latest fic finder. sorry but i don't think that's it im pretty sure it's a finished fic. also wwx meets his paternal grandmother but she has dementia iirc. thanks for the suggestion tho

hey #5 again sorry again but that's still not it. T_T the wei clan isn't a cultivator family but a merchant family so wcz was actually rich before becoming a cultivator iirc. and when wwx's uncles found out what happened to wwx they withdrew their business in lanling. also idk if i remember it right but it seemed part of a series? thank you for your efforts i also liked the fics you suggested anyway so it's still a win

NOT FOUND! 🧡 Stunted, Starving Juvenility by TomatenMark (E, 548k, WangXian, WIP, Fix-it of sorts, Talisman master WWX, Not JFM Friendly, Study Arc, Getting together, Fluff and Angst, Engagement)

NOT FOUND! places under the sky by narie (T, 17k, WangXian, Background Relationships, Canonical Character Death, Family, Found Family, literally but also metaphorically, Funerary Rites, Post-Canon, Family Dynamics, Grief/Mourning)

FOUND! Keep Holding On by abCEE (M, 316k, JC & WWX & JYL, wangxian, canon divergence, role reversal, YLLZ JYL, yunmeng sibling dynamics, good uncle LQR, sunshot campaign, PTSD, established relationship, angst w/ happy ending) wei ying's dad comes from merchants family. He and Lan Zhan and a-yuan visit them. That part was somewhere in the middle of the fic / I don'r remember the specific chapter (i think around 35/36)

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6. Hey there, I'm searching for a wangxian fiction on ao3.... but unfortunately, I don't remember much of it. All that i know is that it is a long fic and that Wei Ying is not hated by the Cultivation world. Wei Ying also gets a title, which is similar to Lan Zhans. It was like the Light Bearer (obviously LZ) and his Light Source (that's the title WY got). Also, they got their happy ending (and I think WYs' relationship to Jiang Cheng was not good at the sunshot campaign :/ ?). Thanks in advance :D

FOUND? I'm Going Out (Gonna Make A Name For Me And You) by cosmicmilktea (T, 16k, wangxian, post-canon, chief cultivator LWJ, Mentor WWX, intersect relations, slow burn, sickness)

FOUND? Light Source by abCEE (M, 31k, wangxian, canon divergence, not Jiang friendly, fall of lotus pier, no golden core transfer, sunshot campaign, established relationship, canon-typical violence, medical inaccuracies, no demonic cultivation, accidental baby acquisition)

FOUND? Light of Stars (and the Destroyer) by Sanguis (T, 22k, WangXian, Legends, Arranged Marriage, Pining for your spouse, Adoption, Canon Divergence, Married Couple)

FOUND? 🧡 the river brought you here by chilianxianzi (Not Rated, 11k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, POV Outsider, Amnesia, Past abuse, Strangulation, Found Family) I think the fic is - The River Brought You Here. (Feng Huo, Beacon)

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7. Hello! I'm hoping you and all your lovely followers can help me, but I think the fic I'm looking for has been deleted.

The title was something like Happiness is peeing your pants, and the author something like wwx_sparkles, but I don't think I'm spelling the author's name correctly. The fic was about Emperor!LWJ and guard!WWX, who drank too much the night before, and needs to borrow the emperor's chamber pot. Sexy times ensue.

If anyone knows the fic or the author, or has a copy, I'd be very grateful! Thanks for all your hard work, this blog is a treasure ♥️

I’ve got bad news for you; w_wxsparkles has left the fandom, deleted their AO3 account, and emptied their Twitter. If you persevere, that story (and you got the title right) is available on the Wayback Machine.

the work number was #28129026. https://archiveofourown.org/works/28129026

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8. Hi! I'm looking for an Ao3 one shot that takes place after wwx's death. It's about how Jiang wanyin and lan wangji need to stay away from each other during conferences. It all started when jiang wanyin made a comment about lan wangji's robes saying he looks like he's mourning his wife. And it set off lan wangji and he seriously aimed to hurt jiang wanyin for that comment. I remember he swung at a pillar and collapsed it. He only stopped because Lan shizui called out to him. TYIA!

FOUND! Better than a Mouthful of Blood by mondengel (T, 1k, gen) and it is locked to archive accounts

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9. I watched wangxian toxic lover FF video in YouTube I want read this ff please can you search the ff story I'm try find this story but never find it's request please can you find

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10. Hi! Thank you for all your help in finding all these good fics! I've found so many excellent stories based on your recs and findings ❤️ If it's not too much trouble, could you please find a fic in which wei ying was faking his orgasms and lan zhan found out bcs he walked in on wei ying? Thank you

NOT FOUND! Wei Wuxian’s Shameless revenge, a Tumblr comic by @pakhnokh, elaborated in The Sweetest Morsel to the Mouth That Ever Was Cooked in Hell by Silvarbelle (E, 14k, wangxian, Mojo’s post)

NOT FOUND! Lie Back and Think of Yunmeng by sophie_448 (E, 8k, WangXian, Arranged Marriage, Observed Consummation, Dubious Consent, Public Sex, Exhibitionism, A/B/O Dynamics, Boypussy, Vaginal Sex, ambiguous historical fantasy setting, referenced Wei Ying/others for ~educational purposes, Faked orgasms, chastity examination)

FOUND! if there ever was a perfect couple this one qualifies by wildwestwind (E, 4k, wangxian, F/M, gender changes, smut, anorgasmia, rope bondage, consensual non-con, gentle dom LWJ, lack of communication, fluff) this is maybe left field since it is a m/f fic but the description reminded me a lot of this one

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11. Do you know the title of a fic where Wei Ying changes into a woman due to a pill he took from a black dog that was frozen in an array. It took him back in time and he decided to help the sunshot compaign from the sideline so no one knew of the demonic cultivator. He runs into lan Zhan who realizes it’s Wei Ying and follows after him. Wei Ying claims ayuan as his son. I’ve read it before but have lost it. Thank you in advance for any help! @minniemickey1987

FOUND? 今非昔比 Jīn fēi xī bǐ by XieJianRou (Not rated, 119k, wangxian, time travel fix-it, fem WWX)

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12. Here am I bothering you guys again, lol. I'm looking for a fic that takes place in a world where people are decided as doms and subs. I think that Lwj was a dom and Wwx a sub. Wwx is having a sub drop at the burial mounds, so Wq sends a letter to Lwj so he can go help get Wwx out of the dropping. Some misunderstanding happens, and it ends with Lwj having a dom drop, but wwx doesn't notice and sends Lwj away, but Wq noticed Lwj was dropping, and when she found out Wwx sent him away, she scolded Wwx and told him to go find Lwj before something bad happened with him.

FOUND? A Gesture of Companionship by Khashana (E, 5k, wangxian, bdsm au, burial mounds settlement days, dub con, spanking, scratching, no lube, inappropriate use of gusu lan ribbon, sex pollen vibes, fuck or severe consequences, going nonverbal, sub drop, top drop, angst w happy ending)

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13. I have completely lost track of a fic, and I hope you guys can find it for me since I have given up. So it was a War prize wangji fic, though I don't remember if it was tagged that or not. It was actually primarily in LXC's pov. Everyone was at a conference in Lanling, and LXC had heard a bunch of horrible rumors about what LWJ was supposedly suffering, but then wangxian came in looking swag af, and LXC kept checking over and staring at LWJ to assuage himself of the worry when LWJ looked fine. Then there was a bit where NMJ got sat at the table with them in a Jin attempt to provoke him or WWX into trouble, and it failed. Then there was a break, and everyone went shopping, and WWX kept going on and on about LWJ and everyone by the end of it realized WWX was a dork and stupid in love with LWJ. I think this was multi chapter? But that's everything I can remember.

Thank again for your help!

Asker from 13 on ff, it is not Love, in fire and blood. Like I said, the fic was entirely from LXC's pov and at no point did it switch to or from that. It also entirely takes place at a banquet. Other scenes I remember is that when LWJ and WWX appeared, LWJ was described to have a long train on his coat, later during the banquet LXC makes note that LWJ is eating some chicken that WWX had put on his plate and that LWJ's cheeks look chubby since he'd last seen him. WWX had also never met NMJ before.

I don't remember if it was a long one shot or a chaptered fic, but if it was chaptered it wasn't very many, like 4 or 5.

NOT FOUND! love, in fire and blood by cicer (E, 360k, wangxian, Bottom LWJ, Arranged Marriage, political scheming, Gratuitous Domesticity, Mutual Pining, EXTREME SLOWBURN, Bottom LWJ) might be "Love, In Fire And Blood" It is a war prize au and when wangxian re-enter society they are both dressed to the nines (LWJ notably not wearing his Lan whites) and there is a focus on Xichen being worried for his brother. But the whole fic is not from Xichen's perspective.

FOUND! Cessation by devinokaze (T, 6k, wangxian, canon divergence, YLLZ WWX, fluff, LXC pov)

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14. Hello fic finder, I don't know if you are still finding fics but i've been trying to find a wangxian fic where wei wuxian was raised by his mother cangse sanren and sends a letter to the cultivation saying she is coming down the mountain. Lan Zhan and Wei Ying meet in a forest and end up adopting Xue yang, Moxuanyu, and A yuan. Meng Yao is cangse sanrens disciple in this fic and wen ruohan isn't causing trouble. Wuxian cross dresses in this fic and its not jiang friendly. Please can you help me

FOUND? Resplendence by FrozenMarVel (E, wangxian, JYL/JZX, JC/LXC, different first meetings, love at first sight, fluff, rogue cultivator WWX, crossdressing, flirting, fix-it of sorts, smut, WIP)

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15. Hi! I wanted to ask about a fic where lwj wakes up one morning and sees wwx sitting on the floor, crying, wearing the same clothes he was wearing the previous night because he found all the letters lwj wrote to him in those 13 years and read them. I read smth like that and forgot the name😭 @angrybagginshieldbakery

FOUND? no better version of me by idrilka (E, 8k, WangXian, Established Relationship, Love Letters, Tender Sex)

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16. Hi, I'm looking for a fic, the only thing I remember was that (due to time travel shenanigans perhaps?) WWX was absent for the investigation and fight of the waterborne abyss and as a consequence LWJ died. I think WWX only found out about it a long time later. Does anyone remember this fic? Thank you! A big thank you also to the mods for putting in the time to manage this blog!

I've read #16! I think it was caused by LXC going back in time, he could only change one thing, and decided that LWJ and WWX shouldn't become close, and so doesn't let WWX and JC come with them to fight the abyss. He then goes back to the future only to learn that LWJ died.

FOUND! Alternative Choices by StarClearWaters (Readoutloud) (T, 20k, wangxian, LXC/WQ, pov LXC, protective LXC, time travel, temporary character death, butterfly effect, mpreg, panic attacks)

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17. Hi! I'm actually looking for 2 fics! A) is LZ goes to burial mounds w/WY the lan elders start arguing through rules on a mountain with LZ eventually WY gets involved. B) is LZ had left the lan for a few years(?) and the elders, LX,&LQ try to get him to come back- the fic focuses on rules and how LZ breaks them, like it mentions him braiding beads into his hair and i also remember that LZ & WY had a wagon full of children! I love all the work you all put in on this blog! LOTS OF LOVE @chubbypotato23

17A)

FOUND? A War of Stone and Silence by kitsunealyc (T, 4k, WangXian, Canon Divergence, Burial Mounds, Lans Being Crappy Communicators, Wall of Discipline, Remix)

17B)

FOUND? Unpack your heart by Terri Botta (Isilwath) (T, 22k, wangxian, 1st in series, canon divergenec, romance, everyone lives au, LWJ stays at Burial Mounds, not lan elder friendly) the part they remember starts in chapter 3

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18. hey! im looking for a modern fic where i believe wwx is married to mm and he meets lwj later.. they have an affair of sorts?? cheating was one of the tags i think. it was around 15-25k, angsty but a happy ending.. thats all i got lol. Thank you for your help!!!

FOUND? We Take Our Vows Seriously by JJSIN2020 (E, 30k, WangXian, Modern AU, LWJ is Married, WWX is not, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, emotional comfort not in your spouse, Eventual Smut, Lime spritzers, that's the drink, too bad if you don't like them)

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19. Fic finder request, please! 🙂 A modern au where WWX had created a security pc program and was pretty rich. He lives with the wens and is friends with NMJ and NHS and gets spooked early into his relationship with LWJ and runs away to hide in a hotel room. No one can find him until NHS bribes a restaurant worker and then convinces WWX to go back.

FOUND! Come Around and Stay by trippednfell (M, 160k, wangxian, modern, slow burn, kid fic, found family, it gets worse before it gets better, PTSD, blood and injury, dissociation, trauma, angst w happy ending, musicals, alternating pov, JC & WWX reconciliation, hurt/comfort, panic attacks) the scene described is in chapter 10

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20. Hi! I’m looking for a fic where Wei Wuxian travels back in time to the Cloud Recesses and immediately tried to kill himself by jumping into the river in the Cloud Recesses. He survives and then there is a scene where he uses some sort of empathy to show Lan Wangji and Nie Huaisang what happened to him that lead to home being there. I would appreciate help finding it, though I understand if you are too busy

FOUND? Without end by barisan (M, 70k, wangxian, major character death, time travel, suicide attempt, hurt/comfort, depressed WWX, protective LWJ, good uncle LQR, bad parents JFM & YZY, not YZY & JFM & Jiang friendly, implied/referenced child abuse & self harm, BAMF WWX, WIP)

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#wangxian #mdzs #wangxian fic finder #wangxian fic search #the untamed #wangxianficfinder #long post

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xiyao-feels · 1 year

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Man I just.... I really really do not like NHS. I remember when I was trying to evaluate FJ's characterization of him, flipping through his scenes. I don't think we ever see him express any moral sentiments. One of his earliest moments is being all gee, wouldn't demonic cultivation be cool! And I feel like this is actually kind of a red flag, here! (And inconsistent with his FJ characterization but I mean, lol, obviously.) Like, I think CQL really does soften him up, in ways that aren't always obvious because they're less contradicting what we see and more adding to it. But when you really just look at what we see of him in the novel...

And I mean—I don't actually begrudge him revenge? Like, yeah, JGY killed his brother, obviously he's going to go for revenge. That checks out. I do think JGY was in the right, but I also get why that doesn't matter. But—you know, in the present day, Chifeng-zun's reputation is doing just fine. The brotherhood oath is on one of JGY's murals on the path to Carp Tower, for heaven's sake. The Qinghe Nie aren't in as great condition, but that's because NHS is whatever combination of incompetent and lazy and faking incompetence and laziness, and JGY provides NHS with a huge amount of support!

And JGY doted on NHS. If NHS had wanted to kill him, he could have. But that wasn't enough: he wanted to destroy as much as he could everything JGY had ever loved. It's horrible.

#I am honestly disgusted by the defenses I've seen of what he does with MS' corpse #'it's what JGY did with NMJ's corpse!'#I mean a) so NMJ's corpse didn't/reassemble itself and kill him/ there was a serious fucking pragmatic purpose here #but b) even assuming that there wasn't and that JGY had done this for shits and giggles #that would be a reason to do the same to /JGY's/ corpse #not this last fundamental abuse and humiliation and horror to his mother #god almighty

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fincalinde · 1 year

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nie huaisang and/or nie mingjue for the ask meme 🧋

Bold! Very bold. Standard disclaimer that I'm aware not everyone is aiming for canon consistency in their fan content, but I find it disheartening that there is so little content produced where the end result is canon consistent. When I express frustrations it is in relation to trends and not specific fics or individuals.

Nie Huaisang

a song that reminds me of them

I honestly don't have any songs that remind me of him, beyond the very weak connection of the results of the impact he has on other characters. He's not a character with much interiority, so nothing really clicked for me in that regard.

what they smell like

I imagine he smells pretty good since he likes to dress well and wear jewellery and that implies he's relatively fastidious. I am guessing he probably smells like clean human in the early part of his life, and then maybe once he's clan leader he has more scope to have whatever incenses he wants floating through the Unclean Realm so then he might smell of those. And obviously there's various hair oils—he's got his signature look with his rings and his fan so it's possible he has a signature hair oil. But maybe it would be declassé to wear so much hair oil that everyone else can smell it and you'd only be able to tell up close and personal oh my god why have I written this many words about how NHS smells

an otp

There's certainly no one in the cast he makes sense with. My personal feeling is that he's really not the type of person who's ever going to work effectively in any kind of partnership, so I don't see him ever being in a relationship that would be a healthy and successful one. I imagine he does marry postcanon though - now is the time to sire heirs and keep the Nie on top.

a notp

The idea of NHS with JGY is particularly distasteful to me.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Personally, I think the collective dynamic of the Venerated Triad isn't complete without NHS as the unofficial fourth member. LWJ, as is typical, opts out and doesn't give LXC the courtesy of referring to his sworn brothers with fraternal address (not that LXC minds, ilhsm). NHS however is all in on this bonus brother scheme. Not only does he address LXC and JGY as er-ge and san-ge, but he actually treats them like big brothers. He's pleased to see LXC, he's even more pleased to see JGY (omg presents), and it's quite nice that JGY in particular is trying to make up for NMJ's weaknesses in this area. That's not to say that JGY is correct to not make any demands of NHS at all, but he's certainly attempting to be a moderating influence and it's just all really interesting to me.

Of course once NMJ is dead, there's presumably not much time before his corpse first escapes its tomb and NHS concludes there was foul play. So we can't read too much into the way NHS runs back and forth to JGY and LXC, in the sense that obviously a large part of this is an act. But it's still interesting, and I think a lot of people forget that the narration says NHS is bothering LXC at the Cloud Recesses just as often as he's flinging himself on san-ge for fuss and support. This could become its own very long post, so I'll stop here.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Obviously there are numerous 'headcanons' I disagree with, but to pick one of the most irritating ones, I really dislike this recurring theme I see of NHS showing his hand either postcanon or in divergences. This is a man who never broke character in all of canon—why on earth is he suddenly monologuing at length about his grievances in front of [insert characters here]? Canonically, all he does is obliquely confirm to WWX that he was behind setting the arm on the Mo family, manipulating MXY, killing the cats and luring the juniors, desecrating MS' body etc. But it's all implied and he does not ever relinquish plausible deniability.

It really makes no sense to me to think that NHS would drop his act postcanon, either in the canon scenario of dead JGY, or in a divergence scenario where JGY survives. As infuriating as it would be for him if JGY escaped, he's going to redouble his efforts rather than sabotage himself by confirming WWX's suspicions to literally anyone. He's held it together thus far even when it looked like his plan might go awry, and there's no reason to think he can't continue to hold it together through any further plans and/or confrontations.

NHS' greatest weapon is his ability to not break character, and we already know he doesn't break character in victory. So, a setback as basic as JGY surviving would just not be enough for him to relinquish his modus operandi. I really think he'd be privately furious and distressed, but would continue to disguise that and simply attempt to regroup. (Although, as I have also said before - in a divergence where JGY knows NHS is his enemy, NHS is toast. JGY outclasses NHS on every level and the only advantage NHS has is JGY's profound belief in his harmlessness. Once that is gone, it's game over.)

the position they sleep in

I've never really thought about this but I bet when he was little he would crawl into NMJ's bed and proceed to keep him awake all night by fidgeting.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

Maybe one day I'll confirm how he fits in to my ATLA AU and write that. I do know where he is and what he's doing.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I can't say I've ever paid much attention, but I definitely find the wardrobe of CQL NHS to be disappointingly bland and unmemorable, so maybe just his default official artwork outfit? Seems like it fits the canonical brief of being sharp and fashionable with bonus fan.

—

Nie Mingjue

a song that reminds me of them

Definitely Running Deep by Delara.

Looking deep inside my thoughts And reflected shit I thought I could control But I'm paralysed and terrified And it's killing me but maybe that is fine

what they smell like

Human being + something a little bit metallic.

an otp

He's canonically ace as in no interest in relationships or sex, so none. As a side note I do think it's interesting that he doesn't marry and father children - I assume before the war he thinks he'll have more time, and afterwards he realises time is too short for him to raise and train his own children. But there's just a whisper in there of the classic NMJ 'do as I say not as I do' approach, because it's still a choice he's made that was influenced by his own preferences rather than solely his duty as clan leader.

a notp

I cannot think of any ship I dislike more than Nieyao. If I get into this it will become a dissertation, so we'll just leave it there. Suffice to say:

Physical abuse and mortal terror are not things that interest me when I'm shipping.

I am not in the habit of ignoring canonical character dynamics for my own convenience.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Perhaps weirdly, I really enjoy NMJ and LXC because of the layers. I really like that the affection between them is genuine but that they just do not get each other and you can see throughout the flashbacks the way their relationship is eroding. And it's not drastic, dramatic erosion like NMJ and JGY, but instead the kind of sad recognisable drifting apart of two people who became friends in their youth because they're from similar backgrounds and have unique and heavy responsibilities—but those similarities are just not enough the older they get, and the more time passes the more apparent it becomes that they have fundamentally different outlooks on life.

I like that NMJ refuses to engage with LXC's basic point about context mattering, yet before he's fully in the grip of the sabre spirit maxing out his worst instincts, he's still capable of being moved by human sympathy when it's LXC making the argument. I like that LXC is the only person NMJ is ever visibly pleased to see. I really believe NMJ cares deeply about LXC, his only actual friend.

And, conversely, I also really like that NMJ is able to see that LXC has a closer bond and rapport with JGY and is frustrated by that. I don't know that I'd go all in on the theory that he's jealous of how close LXC and JGY are as a primary motivation as that's a bit too basic, but I do think that feeling of exclusion is one of the many factors swimming around in the murky depths of the dynamic of their sworn brotherhood.

Finally, I just love the contrast between LXC's relatively clear-eyed view of JGY, where he has a very good understanding of who JGY is and what he's all about even if he's not aware of all the lengths JGY ultimately has to go to, with his absolute obliviousness to who NMJ really is. NMJ is literally trying to stab JGY to death in public and only LXC's intervention prevents murder and yet another inter-clan war, and LXC is still like oh dear, Da-ge really is under a lot of stress. LXC is drifting further and further from NMJ (see the excellent meta from @xiyao-feels for a breakdown of this). Yet he still thinks of NMJ as being at heart the youthful clan leader he first befriended, rather than the current worst self incarnation whose negative qualities have been turned up to the max and who is a lethal ticking time bomb, a danger to everyone around him.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

As always, do not get me started. I am absolutely baffled as to where cuddly wuddly giant teddy gym bunny biker Etsy crafter in touch with his fee-fees all bark and no bite NMJ comes from, because he certainly does not feature in canon. I'll stand by this for both MDZS and CQL. I've probably spilt enough ink on MDZS NMJ and we are given very detailed insight into his state of mind so that's a lot easier to reference, but it's worth noting that CQL NMJ is just as profoundly hypocritical and violent and it's vital to incorporate that into his character. Writing only his superficial righteousness, his love for NHS and his affection for LXC is really not enough. It annoys me when aspects of characters are excised in order to sanitise them for what appears to be mainly shipping purposes.

the position they sleep in

I think maybe it varies but he doesn't move much in the night unless he has nightmares. Which no one knows about because he always sleeps alone.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

I also know what this guy is doing in my ATLA AU, and I'm super boring and not a huge fan of genuine crossovers—usually I prefer mashups where the characters of one canon are integrated into the setting of another without aping the original plot. I think it's really important to retain his arc of a) losing himself to all his worst qualities, and b) acknowledging that he's choosing to lose himself and handling it badly, but also it's not much of a choice when he can't opt out of the system he's in. I'm thinking maybe an X-Men AU where he has some kind of power that causes sabre-spirit-type degeneration and violence? It would need some kinks worked out of it but might be a decent shout.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

Obviously his best look is when WWX is flicking his naked disembodied torso. Iconic.

#ask #thatswhatsushesaid #roquen meta #howling sadly into the night:#NMJ IS SO INTERESTING #whyyyyy would you construct something else out of whole cloth #when we have this to dig into?#beyond my comprehension

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skalidris · 8 months

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i would absolutely love to hear more about your course on semiotic analysis in theatre and how it had influenced your opinions on mdzs/cql, when/if you have brain space to talk about it. 🧋

First, thank you for asking--I hadn't actually thought about how that course influenced my take on mdzs and the derivative canons, but in hindsight, it really super did.

Now that I have given it some thought, I should say first that it's been a while since I studied this, and also a while since I first read mdzs (I'm using 'mdzs' as a shorthand; I actually watched s1 of the donghua first, then s1 of the audio drama, and then I read the full novel. cql wasn't a thing back in those days yet, and neither were the later donghua seasons).

Read more as I'm longwinded! Content: Theatre Studies Semiotics, Why I Use This

Semiotics, even just for theatre, has a lot going on. I'll be simplifying! Very simply, semiotics is about a thing called signs. These signs are expressions of something; rather, they are vehicles of communication. Anything that communicates is a sign. Signs communicate some abstract idea, or carry a meaning--something like that.

It's absolutely irrelevant whether someone put a meaning into the sign, or why that sign came to exist. Intent doesn't matter. Since all material expressions (also, words, or sensory experiences--they're material compared to their meanings) are signs, and the duty of a sign is to carry a meaning, that meaning is what can be derived from the sign. Itself.

This dualistic definition is basically associated with a guy called Ferdinand de Saussure. In the semiotics of equally famous guy Charles Peirce, you get a third category. It's kind of complicated, but for these purposes, I'm gonna go ahead and call that third category the system for understanding the sign--the incoporation of the 'thought' of the sign back into a framework of ideas and concepts.

The essence of semiotics in theatre in so far as I mentioned it in that post is, everything on the stage is part of the performance. Our professors had real-life anecdotes for this, but it's basically this: If in the middle of a staged fight, an actor spits blood and collapses on the stage, some audiences might be empathically upset, others might laugh, someone else might go 'woah. how did they do that?'

But no matter what, all of those responses assume that this is acted--someone, several someones, costume and blood and light and acting, came together to portray 'death' in this way. But that actor actually just died for real, in real life. That's why, intent isn't important for semiotics. Although you can certainly discuss intent, ultimately, once you've agreed to the existence of signs and signification, intent is at most secondary.

Obviously, a novel isn't a play, and neither is a tv show, or a donghua, or an audio drama. Semiotics absolutely can be applied to anything, but I'm specifically talking about theatre here. I personally don't see this as an issue, first, because cql and the audio drama are recorded performance arts (they fall within theatre studies already). two, because I'm fundamentally regarding reading/watching/listening as unique, non-repeatable events in which i, the audience, and you, the audience, are never really passive at all. <<key concept in theatre studies, in particular the work of the theatre semiotician erika fischer-lichte.

I like this approach for mdzs, and it's definitely partly because I just liked JGY so much! And I was not really in a majority with that, and back then, people also didn't like xiyao as much as they do in this post-zzj&lhk era. I wanted to understand this, and I also wanted to know whether I was wrong to like him. Not because it would've made me stop, but because 'I've decided to ignore the author' and 'the author doesn't contradict me' are really different starting positions for thinking about something, and I wanted to know which I was in!

(If I want to stubbornly contradict something, I better make sure I haven't made up a strawman from misunderstanding first. That sort of idea)

Semiotics sort of.. side-steps this? The conclusion I came to is that the text creates its own framework for interpretation. It does this structurally, by what information is presented, omitted, changed, etc, when and how. It does this in how characters talk, in what cues they take from each other (or don't!), in what the narration comments on.

In other words, the conclusion is that, just as in theater, regardless of what intention is behind any individual sign of the story, regardless how it came to exist in the story, it's there, and part of the story. So I am obligated to consider as part of the total network of signs that make up the bigger-scale meanings, such as 'all kinds of intent result in destruction if the circumstances are bad enough' and 'what happens after the terrible thing happened' and so on and so forth

If something doesn't have a meaning, because the whole story is made up of signs and system, it becomes a sign with a meaning anyway. Due to peer pressure.

Luckily, Peircean semiotics allow for system interpretation, so signs like that, the ones whose meanings we can't incorporate well, it's possible to decide not to incoporate them in analysis or whatever ^^

And of course, your own framework might be lacking. Mdzs was my first webnovel, and my first danmei, so with this philosophy in mind I set out to read several more in order to give me more confidence in understanding the story. That is, in order to decide what 'counts' when creating an interpretation and 'what doesn't count' is made easier with a more suitable framework. However, I still think that the story itself gives you the correct cues anyway--they just might get distorted by your framework.

[was gonna put an example here, since I dunno if this makes sense, but I'm too tired. Mayb later.]

#mdzs was really pivotal for me as a story in lotsa ways also so.#it was fun to think abt this. thank you!!!#ask #mdzs #cut out a whole salty tangent abt lube. self care.#i do still wanna talk abt the oft-cited xiyao matchmake wangxian guanyin temple prologue tho

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llycaons · 8 months

Text

ep44 (2/2): not that I like him but the antagonism towards su she seems a little classist

why did wwx terrify children for fun lol. more importantly, why did wen ning go along with it? he seemed intentionally intimidating. I don't think he wants to be seen that way

anyway wwx bemoaning the fact that he can't strike fear into children's hearts is so funny. like he doesn't want to be blamed for everything going wrong but he DOES want to be seen and respected and maybe even feared for his power. and actually I get that. he is super powerful and he's been disrespected by the kids for weeks

oh yeah, again they have the same skin tone BUT lwj is shinier. must have something to do with the lighting or makeup

omg my favorite minor character, Female Cultivator With Dirt on Her Face. you can tell she's an antagonist because of the. because of the dirt

aww I forgot this. good old ozz, standing up for wwx. jgy's plan was quite bad honestly because if he starts shit and blames wwx then all wwx has to do is show up to prove his innocence by saving the kids. saving children is the number one way to rehabilitate your image. also sect leader ouyang's hanfu is tight as fuck

CLASSIC NHS LINE

who tf is this and why is he named. who cares. would be funnier if we wasn't named

aw sweet we got a visual of lwj standing with wwx against the world. well, another one

SWEET hanfu my leige

wwx shouting and pointing at the jins: THERE CAN'T BE ANYONE ELSE!!! LOOK!!! THEY'RE THE BAD GUYS!!!

this section of the show always felt kind of awkward and pointless to me. just a lot of people yelling and wwx not liking it very much and also lwj is there

uh oh. that wwx expression...oof. when you still really care about someone even though they've hurt you really badly and don't want anything to do with you and you feel guilty for what happened between you but you also can't stand how they treat you. and they're bleeding in front of you. anyway he jumps in to protect him

lqr too! lwj jumps right in as defense. I don't think his relationship with lqr is actually too complex. lwj doesn't deal well in vagueness or uncertainty. he defied his uncle and will do so again, and certainly disagrees with him about things, but he still respects him and cares about him as an elder and as his uncle

and look...a wen saving them. the irony

locked in a room with no spiritual energy and the yiling laozu, who says this to you. everyone's worst nightmare

nhs is bleeding?! I don't know if we've EVER seen that. he keeps out of danger pretty well

also, he's pushing the narrative into wwx's hands.

THIS TO SU SHE 😭 he's so polite too with his 'allow me to ask a question' then so rude even if unintentionally lmao

rly embodying the teacher role here.

lwj's love language is acts of violence, as petty a misuse of power it may be. you know that quote from bottoms? it's so them

lqr either likes ljy or hates ss because ljy did NOT quiet down about criticizing the su sect and he's right next to lqr and only lsz chastised him

okay I do not like su she but the fact that people hate him for 'copying the lans' is so fucking stupid. if he wants to found his own sect, what else is he going to do? he has the skills the lans taught him, of course that's his basis. in criticizing him so harshly, the lans come off as petty and really insecure for a rich and established clan. and this in the screenshot...THEY started in on HIM. the man was just defending himself. as soon as he complains about the disrespect, suddenly they're all 'well we have to be civil!' I swear this series makes really good point about classism with wwx but then it turns around and uncritically reinforces gentry hatred of lower classes by making characters like su she jealous antagonists who just aren't good enough to respect

anywayt. I always liked how wwx turns his back on everyone to ask lwj something. he gets all quiet and intimate

ohhh neat idiom

I love wwx verbally demolishing antagonists so much. he's that bitch

this is smart tho. like this is what I'm saying. granted betraying the sect was bad but he was a teenager and like he's shat on and disrespected for his entire life for not being very talented or original I guess when I KNOW there's gotta be untalented cultivators in other wealthy sects that still have a place in the cultivation world. but like he's SMART he figured that this would work and it DID.

here's nhs pushing the narrative for wwx again, helpfully verbalizing his thought process so everyone else gets it quicker.

personal highlights:

lwj's smiles in the very beginning of this episode were so nice

mm family <3

wwx's radiant gorgeous smile when looking at toys with lwj

wwx's moment remembering the wens, and his decision to let the past go with that beautiful scene of letting the dirt pour out

Lady with Dirt on Her Face my favorite minor antagonist

all the gathered cultivators' sick threads

wwx's 'why don't we have a chat' and his polite rudeness and his teaching voice

nhs nudging things along

everyone like 'noooo don't be divisive' once su she starts insulting the lans after first BEING insulted by them. come on guys

#cql re-rewatch

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jgys-hat · 2 years

Text

(Disclaimer: This is based on show canon as I haven’t read the book yet!)

I just...think about Nie Huaisang’s character development a lot... Does he ever think about and miss the person he used to be before his brother was killed and he started his years-long revenge plot, when he had people around him who cared for him? Does he resent JGY even more than he already did, for forcing his hand so that he became a cynical manipulator? And then when he kills JGY, that’s the person who effectively raised Jin Ling (alongside Jiang Cheng), who will now end up as leader of his clan before he’s ready, so does he ever think about the fact that he’s now inflicted on this poor kid something quite similar to what was done to him? Does he ever feel guilty about that aspect of it?

And how much more soul-crushing would it be to find out that JGY killed his brother, given that the two even lived under the same roof for some time, and the help JGY gave him after he became clan leader... That would just make you so much angrier. And I think he does have a lot of anger, he just expresses it differently from how his brother did - it’s a smouldering deep-down anger rather than an explosive outburst, but I think it’s still very much there. You’d have to be that angry to persevere for years with that plot, through the Fear that you could be found out at any moment... And he can’t even express it because he’ll end up risking everything he’s worked towards, he has to keep it hidden behind a mask and has nobody he can confide in, and has to spend years acting as the Headshaker when he’s actually been Changed completely.

Like...his quest for revenge ends up with him becoming more like the person he hated - especially as he has to become so adept at hiding his true feelings behind a mask - and it just makes me so sad for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s perfectly aware of this himself, and is bitter about it. And then there’s the fact that after the whole thing, it’s likely the people who know what happened will find it really hard to trust him in the future - there’s always going to be the thought at the back of their minds of: “What if he’s plotting against me right now and I won’t even know it until ten years from now?” I don’t personally think he’d feel inclined to pull something like that again, but I think they would always be wondering... Especially Lan Xichen - you can tell from his face when NHS says “I don’t know” that last time that he’s not sure whether to believe him...

I would just really like to know more about what happens to him post-canon... I love him as a character so much, partly because every single thing about his life gets sadder the more you think about it. I wanted to cheer for him when he pulled off his plan, but at the same time I just think he really needs a hug :((( I want to imagine that eventually he finds some kind of happiness, because he deserves it after everything he goes through, but I think it would take a long time to get there, and there are a lot of things that would never wholly be made Right again. And... I think there would be an element of not quite knowing what to do with himself now he’s succeeded in what he’s set out to do, and no longer has the fear of discovery hanging over his head at all times. I think it would take a while to adjust to that.

#this got really long and he's not even my favourite character #I haven't watched Fatal Journey yet so knowing my luck it invalidates everything I've written here lol #The Untamed #The Untamed meta #Nie Huaisang #NHS #Splash witters

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coffeeandritalin · 2 years

Text

TGCF First Read Reactions - Ch. 5

**SPOILER WARNING**

(Probs spoiler warning from here on out since I’ve seen too many out-of-context spoiler posts)

Clearly I'm biased, but Heaven needs to calm down on its demotion punishments. First, XL's already emotionally and mentally suffered from watching his nation get demolished because he tried to help them. Then, getting demoted and kicked out already sucks but he also has to watch as all his temples and statues are torn down as people spit on his name. They also physically punt him out of heaven a la JGY style which creates injuries that apparently takes HUNDREDS OF YEARS to heal. His cultivation is destroyed and he has to resort to busking and collecting scraps. And apparently all that trauma and suffering isn't enough. Let's also slap on some shackles so that he can physically never leave his past behind him. Geeze, Officials! Chill!

- - -

NF and FY bicker like an old, married couple, and I absolutely love their dynamic.

Also FY absolutely refusing to let go of why Feng Xin has so many female followers and clearly having THE best time telling the story X-D.

I'm kind of loving how FX's personality is so dramatic and exaggerated. Took the dense man 10 freaking years to realize something wasn't right. I also have a very vivid image of FX running up to the peaks and sending out a round of curses into the sky. The absolute rage! The injustice! How could this do this to him!? And then just quietly forcing himself to sit through all these women shyly praying for bliss in their marital beds X-D (and also praying for sons, but the former is funnier to imagine him sitting through). Please don't change and please continue being a good guy/likable character.

Really starting to suspect NF and FY are actually FX and MQ. (Vaguely remembering seeing a post about how XL knew about two people's identity and intentionally being a little sh** about it, so I of course took a 1-2 hour detour from reading to dig up that post, and it is about these two but there's something about a banquet and there hasn't been a banquet yet, so now I'm more confused…)

I love how these boys are ready to tear each other's throat open, but they immediately unite over seeing XL trying to eat a bun he picked up off the floor 😆.

XL: "I believe that both of your Generals would never do something like this." / The moment he said those words, the expressions of the two martial gods turned a bit strange. - 😆 Clearly, FX and MQ definitely fight like this on the reg.

NF and FY are different kinds of dramatic, and I love both of them. Please never change. …Also, I'm very afraid it's going to become a problem that I love them so much so early (aka I really hope they don't evilly betray XL)…

XL: "…if it is necessary to abandon something, then please, just throw me away. Don’t ever throw away food." / Meanwhile, Nan Feng finally dug out the steamed bun Xie Lian had picked up again and held in his grasp - OMG XL 😆. You are the best. I can absolutely see NF at his wit's end while tearing the dirty bun out of XL's feral hands and poor XL going to the corner to cry and grow mushrooms after he loses the bun war 😆.

This is a very convenient puff of cold wind…

#tgcf first read #tgcf #tgcf novel #here there be spoilers

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rosethornewrites · 1 year

Text

NR, E, & M reading since 3/25

Not having the easiest mental health so reading has been down.

Finished

Not Rated:

NMJ ascends to godhood, by nirejseki

Prompt: NMJ’s mother really was a War Goddess. Instead of dying from JGY’s poisoned song, NMJ ascends instead.

Shadows on the Wall, by mondengel (2 chapters)

Jiang Fengmian finds a damning letter in his wife's office.

Explicit:

The Communication Effect, by draechaeli (41 chapters)

If only there was more communication, or the right kind then everything would be all right. Wei WuXian and Lan WangJi might be bad when it comes to talking to each other about the important things, but they are still leagues better then the older generation that use communication like swords: concealing, revealing, and striking as they please for their own gain. From apologies, to misunderstandings, to sieges, to rumours and gossip, to cold wars, to lies, to civil wars, Wei WuXian and Lan WangJi navigate the world together once their brothers make sure they’re engaged before the classes at Cloud Recesses are finished.

This fic is finished at 186k in 37 chapters + 3 extras

Mature:

can't find a way home, by KouriArashi

After giving away his golden core and being thrown into the Burial Mounds, Wei Wuxian takes his revenge on the Wen sect without crossing paths with the Sunshot Campaign.

With no trace of him found, his loved ones have no choice but to believe he died in the Burial Mounds, and go into mourning.

But then strange things start to happen around Yunmeng ... and in Lanling, Jin Guangshan has only begun to take advantage of the power vacuum left behind by the war.

Unfinished

Not Rated:

A Price Paid, by HollzMcDollz

"Wei Wuxian has been missing."

He could swear he felt his heart stop. Wen Qing was speaking to him, he knew it, could hear the clipped tone and what must be words if he could only process them.

"How long?" Even his own voice sounded foreign to him.

"2 weeks."

Two weeks? He'd been missing that long and he didn't know?

He remained speechless. Surely if he tried to speak, nothing would come out. Wen Qing seemed to sense this, and her expression softened somewhat as she sighed. "I had told him not to handle it alone. He doesn't listen, the fool." She said sharply. Normally Lan Wangji would have spoken up, refuted the thorny words directed at the man, but he could see the worry that was shown in those wide, wet eyes.

"Tell me."

OR: Lan Wangji, upon having continuous dreams of Wei Wuxian in trouble, visits the Burial Mounds only to find Wei Wuxian has been missing for quite some time.

Explicit:

Discarded, by teawater

Children in Cloud Recesses are succubming to a dark curse. There's one person who may be able to help.

Mature:

Bloodsport, by SkullFeather3063

Before Jiang Fengmian could find him an orphaned Wei Wuxian was rescued by Baoshan Sanren. He was raised up in the celestial mountains by people who loved and adored him, looking forward to the day he got to descend and follow in his mother's footsteps.

Confident in his abilities but lost in his knowledge of this new world, Wei Wuxian decided to attend the educational event at Cloud Recesses to integrate himself into the Cultivation World.

Here was where his story began, where love first blossomed, and a new world was forged for the two youths.

This is a story about love and what people will do to get a taste of it...

#the untamed #mo dao zu shi #mdzs #cql #chen qing ling #untamed fanfiction

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thebiscuiteternal · 2 years

Note

If the writing jam is still open: JGY knows that NHS doesn't really need all the help he asks for. He just thinks it's a game, like a kitten bring for attention

ooh, i like you. this ended up a little more angsty than i intended it to. novel/donghua-based

---

For three years after the funeral of the late Nie Mingjue, Jin Guangyao watches Nie Huaisang struggle under the weight of the legacy the man left behind and the guilt of believing he'd been the one to set off the qi deviation that had taken the man's life.

He has seen for himself how carefully the sect's ledgers are being maintained in a familiar elegant script, how letters and missives are always answered promptly, how the towns within Qinghe Nie territory have almost no complaints.

Despite his physical and spiritual disadvantages, despite his lack of experience, despite the rest of the jianghu continually dismissing him as an afterthought at best and an idiot at worst, Nie Huaisang is desperately trying to be a good sect leader.

And early in the fourth year, he finally breaks under all the stress.

"I don't know."

"A-Sang, it's a simple question."

"And I'm telling you I don't know the answer! Why does it even matter? Why do I have to pay attention to everything?"

Jin Guangyao stares at him, bewildered by the sudden petulance. "You're a sect leader."

"So's your father, and I don't see him bothering with any of this shit!" Nie Huaisang snaps, then immediately claps a hand over his mouth.

Jin Guangyao takes a deep, calming breath, then reaches out and puts a hand on the younger man's shoulder.

"I'm sorry," Nie Huaisang mumbles behind his hand, expression contrite and eyes beginning to grow wet. "I didn't-"

"You're tired," Jin Guangyao murmurs gently, giving his shoulder a squeeze. "It's been a very long day for both of us, so why don't you get some sleep? Things will be easier in the morning."

---

They aren't. Nie Huaisang is halfway to drunk by breakfast and clearly in no mood to resume the negotiations.

---

The spiral continues, Nie Huaisang slowly cracking apart before everyone's eyes. By the end of the year, he is seen with wine of one kind or another in hand more often than not, and his meltdowns are practically considered entertainment.

"Knew the little nitwit wouldn't last long," his father says smirkingly over his wine cup as Jin-furen rolls her eyes.

Jin Guangyao remains silent.

He knows the numbers in the ledgers are still ruthlessly accurate, even if the hand that writes them is now much more unsteady, that the disciples remain solid as rocks behind their sect leader even as his very public fall from grace would be potential grounds for demanding abdication. Nie Huaisang is still trying even as his own sanity is slipping from his fingers and into the closest wine jar.

Despite his wife and nephew also expressing their disgust with Nie Huaisang visiting so often to beg assistance, despite Er-ge seeming to have given up on getting Nie Huaisang standing again and encouraging him to similarly cut ties, he opens his door every time.

After all... he was the one to first crack the ground under Nie Huaisang's feet. The least he can do is pick him back up every time he falls.

#mdzs #nie huaisang #jin guangyao #sangyao #vaguely #of the 'oh shit i ruined him and now he's my responsibility' variety #fanfic

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rynne · 3 years

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First of all, I'm a Jiang Cheng stan and the ones that introduced me to MDZS are Jiang Cheng stans, Jin Guangyao stans and Xue Yang stans....I'm quite surprised when I found your blog and end up love reading your metas about WangXian and (especially) Wei Wuxian...Thanks for your hard work...

Do you mind if I ask your opinions on Jiang Cheng, Jin Guangyao and Xue Yang?

Hi there! Thank you so much -- I'm glad you enjoy the meta, because I enjoy writing it. :) I'm sorry this took so long, but I've been both considering what I wanted to say and writing it (it got long).

As for my thoughts on JGY, XY, and JC…

The thing is, I'm not generally personally interested in antagonists. There have been exceptions, but mostly I just don't care about them. I enjoy characters who want to and try to do the right thing, even when it's hard. I usually find characters who prioritize themselves or who enjoy having power over people to be pretty boring. I really only care about antagonists in terms of their impact on the story -- plot, themes, and other characters.

So I don't care about Xue Yang at all. I guess it's tragic that he ended up caring about the person he drove to kill himself, but he otherwise gets a big "meh" from me. What I find more interesting about him is what his story says about the cultivation world -- after Nie Mingjue's death, no one thinks him worth standing up to the Jin Sect about, even though he massacred both the Changs and Baixue Temple. This shows the difference that having someone actually willing to protect a demonic cultivator can make. Of course, there are limits to the parallel given the different circumstances, but I do find it notable.

JGY I find marginally more interesting, but not by a lot. Again, what I generally like most about him is what his story says about the cultivation world. Everyone at Lotus Pier after the Second Siege was very ready to believe everything terrible about him, even though WWX was right there pointing out dubious things about Bicao's and Sisi's stories. WWX himself notices with discomfort the mob getting riled up against JGY, given his own experience with the cultivation sect mob. This kind of thing emphasizes the ways in which "mob justice" is an oxymoron -- a mob wants a target, not real justice.

As for JC -- given the way he polarizes fandom, this will be...rather long.

Right now I am only going to discuss my perspective of his canon character (rather than addressing fanon/fandom). Again, I'm more interested in JC in terms of his narrative roles and the impact they have on the story, themes, and characters than I am in his personality. Given his history with the protagonist WWX, he is a pretty significant character, so he carries multiple narrative roles that can each have a lot of weight.

First, I do consider JC an antagonist for most of the story. His opposition to WWX drives the plot in key places, from the beginning of the novel to the end. The threat of JC is what makes LWJ bring WWX to Cloud Recesses:

Lan Sizhui tried to reason with him. “Young Master Mo, Hanguang Jun actually brought you here for your own good. If you hadn’t come with us, Chief Jiang wouldn’t have let you go. These past several years, he’s caught and dragged countless people back to Lotus Pier and tortured them for information. He’s never let anyone go.”

Lan Jingyi said, “That’s right. You’ve probably never seen Chief Jiang’s methods yourself. They’re downright cruel…”

(Chapter 11, Fanyiyi translation)

Cloud Recesses is where WWX's involvement in the main plot kicks off. MXTX therefore uses the threat of being captured and tortured by JC as a way to place her protagonist where he needs to be.

She does this again towards the end of the novel. When the confrontation in Lotus Pier's ancestral hall drives WWX into pain and unconsciousness, the last thing WWX expresses before he faints is his desire to leave. He had not wanted to leave Lotus Pier immediately until the fight with JC.

Lan WangJi, "How do you feel?!"

Wei WuXian didn't answer the question, "Lan Zhan… Let's go."

Go. Right now.

Don't ever come back again.

Lan WangJi, "Yes."

He'd completely lost all intention to continue the fight with Jiang Cheng.

(Chapter 88, ExR translation)

While he's unconscious, LWJ recalls his wishes and takes him away after the golden core reveal. It's the middle of the night, but the clash between WWX, LWJ, and JC is so severe that they just take a boat and go. They don't even have a goal yet -- they just want to get out of there.

And this is what leads them to Yunping in time to catch JGY. (It is further what leads Jin Ling to Yunping as well, since he went looking for WWX.)

In the middle of the story, when the novel flashes back to the events leading to WWX's death, we see what made JC switch from supporting character to antagonist and the impact that had on what happened to WWX. This switch was precipitated by a moral disagreement where the narrative clearly places WWX in the right. In previous moral conflicts, such as JC not wanting to help the other sect heirs in the Xuanwu Cave while WWX wanted to step in, the two of them still managed to come out on the same side. That is no longer the case: JC makes a clear decision not to support WWX so long as WWX will not do what he wants (when what he wants is the morally inferior position of killing or returning the Wen Remnants). JC's decision here places him and WWX on opposite sides.

That decision wasn't the sole factor in WWX's downfall, but as JGY points out, it played a big role.

"Back then, the LanlingJin Sect, the QingheNie Sect, and the GusuLan Sect had already finished fighting over the biggest share. The rest could only get some small shrimps. You, on the other hand, had just rebuilt Lotus Pier and behind you was the YiLing Patriarch, Wei WuXian, the danger of whom was immeasurable. Do you think the other sects would like to see a young sect leader who was so advantaged? Luckily, you didn't seem to be on good terms with your shixiong, and since everyone thought there was an opportunity, of course they'd add fuels to your fire if they could. No matter what, to weaken the YunmengJiang Sect was to strengthen themselves. Sect Leader Jiang, if only your attitude towards your shixiong was just a bit better, showing everyone that your bond was too strong to be broken for them to have a chance, or if you exhibited just a bit more tolerance after what happened, things wouldn't have become what they were. Oh, speaking of it, you were also a main force of the siege at Burial Mound…"

(Chapter 104, ExR)

JC's refusal to support WWX left him on his own, with no one powerful to speak for or defend him. More than that, though, JC specifically named him an enemy of the cultivation world (even though WWX had only suggested announcing his defection). Calling WWX an enemy deliberately and deceptively frames WWX's intentions more negatively. Basically, from that moment until WWX's death, no one except LWJ seems willing to believe WWX might have good or even neutral intentions. Rumors of the time reflect this:

In less than three days, almost all of the cultivators heard a terrifying piece of news: Wei WuXian, the one who defected from the Jiang Sect and made his own home in Yiling, had created the highest level of fierce corpse yet. It was incomparably fast, strong, fearless, and vicious. On top of that, its consciousness was preserved, able to win every night-hunt!

Everyone was in shock: there would be no peace anymore! Wei WuXian would definitely make these fierce corpses on a large scale, in desire of founding his own sect to compete with the cultivation world! And the many young blood of today's age would definitely be attracted by his evil, opportunist path as well, and go to him one after another. The righteous path of cultivation would have a grim future -- dark times ahead!

(Chapter 75, ExR)

People do tend to scare-monger, so we can't say for sure that rumors like these would not have spread if JC had instead said "he and the Wens just want to live on their mountain in peace" or "these Wens helped me, so they and WWX are under my protection." However, WWX's former shidi and sect leader calling him an enemy does give rumors like these more credence. It is possible that this attitude contributed to the willingness of all the sects to come together to pledge to kill him in the end.

JC was the largest contributor to the siege on the Burial Mounds (chapter 7 notes that Jin Guangshan was the second largest, after JC). He didn't kill WWX himself -- as WWX clarifies, he died from a backfire -- but it's pretty clear that the siege led directly to WWX's death.

From the battle at Nightless City, where he was there to participate in the pledge to kill WWX, onwards, JC has consistently opposed WWX and created obstacles for him. The first thing he does upon being presented with someone who might be WWX is, in fact, to try to kill him again:

On the other hand, Wei Wuxian seized the opportunity and ran.

Everyone looked on, shocked. Hadn’t he only avoided the whip because Lan Wangji had stepped in front of him and blocked it? By fleeing, wasn’t he signing his own death warrant?

Indeed, Jiang Cheng seemed to have grown eyes on the back of his head, and seeing that Wei Wuxian had left Lan Wangji’s protection, how could he give up the opportunity to strike? He raised his whip and cracked it aslant. Zidian lashed out at Wei Wuxian like a venomous dragon, landing right in the middle of his back.

[...]

Zidian had a special ability: if it struck a body snatcher, the body snatcher’s soul would immediately be peeled away from the body they had stolen. Zidian expelled the invader without exception. But this person had been whipped, yet behaved just as he did before, bouncing around as usual. Unless he really hadn’t seized the body, there was no other explanation.

Wei Wuxian thought, How useless. Obviously Zidian can’t whip my soul out. I didn’t steal this body, someone offered it to me. Actually, he practically forced it on me!

Jiang Cheng’s expression was surprised but suspicious, and the intention to whip Wei Wuxian again crossed his eyes.

(Chapter 10, Fanyiyi)

The sequence of events here is pretty clear. JC (and LWJ as well) believes that WWX is a spirit possessing Mo Xuanyu's body. JC's spiritual weapon Zidian has the power to expel possessing spirits. By whipping WWX, JC is trying to expel his spirit from his body -- effectively killing him again. This is why LWJ is so determined to protect him here. It's only through a quirk of the sacrifice ritual that JC did not succeed -- and, in fact, WWX knew all of this would be the case and is using it to prove he is not WWX-possessing-MXY. WWX actually relied on JC's intention to kill him here.

He continues to oppose WWX throughout the present-day story of the novel whenever he does appear until the very end.

JC is never the main antagonist, but this is a novel with multiple antagonists who all help drive the plot as they oppose the protagonist. Some of them, like Wen Chao, Wen Zhuliu, Jin Zixun, and Xue Yang, are antagonists pretty much throughout. Some of them go from neutrality to antagonism, like JGY and Su She. JC is, I think, the only significant one to go from ally to antagonist (and then back to just plain supporting character in the very end), but that does not make him less of an antagonist.

And the thing is, his role as antagonist impacts one of his other major roles, which is as foil to the protagonists WWX and LWJ.

A narrative foil is a character who contrasts with another, generally the protagonist, to highlight certain qualities. When both characters have generally equal roles in the story, this contrast is usually pretty neutral, but when one character acts as a foil for the protagonist, it's usually meant to show the protagonist to advantage, though it can also show off some of the protagonist's weaknesses.

When an antagonist is a foil for the protagonist, the antagonist is usually given negative qualities in order to highlight the protagonist's corresponding positive qualities. For instance, an antagonist foil might be cowardly to help emphasize the protagonist's bravery. This isn't always the case -- some protagonists are not meant to be heroes -- but in MDZS, WWX is meant to be the hero (MXTX says, in the postscript, that "[b]oth WWX and LWJ are highly ideal characters, so there wouldn't be too much dispute on their moral standing. They're perfect as the protagonists"), so his foils are generally meant to come off worse in comparison.

So basically...I think JC's role as an antagonist foil means that he was literally created in part to be bad in order to help show off how good WWX and LWJ are.

We see this with LWJ as well as WWX. For instance, both LWJ and JC played a significant role in raising two of the juniors, Lan Sizhui and Jin Ling. The impression WWX gets of both of the boys helps contrast the difference in LWJ's and JC's parenting styles.

Of Sizhui, WWX's impression is:

Wei Wuxian gave this youth a once-over. His demeanor was gentle, refined, and graceful, and the corners of his mouth were lightly upturned, as though they constantly held a slight grin. The flag formation he had overseen was impeccable, and his upbringing was not so bad either. In short, he was a highly commendable young man, and in his heart, Wei Wuxian approved of him, though it amazed him that even in a frightening place filled with uptight fuddy-duddies like the Gusu Lan Clan, there was someone who could bring up such a splendid young man.

(Chapter 2, Fanyiyi)

While the impression he has of Jin Ling is:

Wei Wuxian hadn’t expected Jin Ling to turn up here, much less that Jin Ling would be as arrogant and dictatorial as this. What’s wrong with this child? How did he become so vicious and short-tempered? He’s stubborn and arrogant, and thinks everyone is beneath him. Excellent job picking up his uncle’s and his father’s flaws—but he hasn’t acquired half a speck of his mother’s virtues. If I don’t rough him up a bit, he’ll pay for it big time sooner or later.

(Chapter 20, Fanyiyi)

WWX even draws a comparison between LWJ's and JC's mentoring styles himself:

Jiang Cheng’s next words were wrapped in thorns. “Why are you still standing there? Are you waiting for prey to rush toward you and stick themselves on your sword? If you can’t capture whatever’s living in Dafan Mountain, don’t ever come see me again!”

Jin Ling shot Wei Wuxian a venomous glare, but he didn’t have the courage to glare at Lan Wangji, the one responsible for his forced silence. Placing his sword back into its scabbard, he made polite goodbyes to the two seniors opposite him and retreated with his bow in hand.

[...]

Lan Sizhui smiled slightly at Wei Wuxian and said, “Young Master Mo, we meet again.”

Wei Wuxian pulled on the corners of his lips. But Lan Wangji opened his mouth and issued a command. It was clear and concise, free of any ornamentation. “Complete your task.”

Only then did the flock of juniors remember why they had come to Dafan Mountain. Placing any other thoughts at the back of their minds, they reverently awaited further instructions. A few moments later, Lan Wangji spoke again, “Try your hardest. No recklessness.”

His voice was low and magnetic. The heart of anyone standing near enough would undoubtedly tremble upon hearing it. The juniors obediently followed Hanguang Jun’s orders and walked deeper into the mountain forests, too afraid to linger. Jiang Cheng and Lan Zhan were truly completely different people, Wei Wuxian thought. Even the advice and the warnings they gave their juniors were completely contrary.

(Chapter 8, Fanyiyi)

As we see throughout the story, JC's parenting style towards Jin Ling is rough, angry, and frequently relies on threatening negative consequences. On the other hand, LWJ is more encouraging and prioritizes their safety over results. Under JC, Jin Ling is vicious, short-tempered, stubborn, arrogant, and has picked up all of his uncle's and father's flaws -- but under LWJ, Sizhui is gentle, refined, graceful, impeccable, highly commendable, and a splendid young man.

I have also talked before about how LWJ and JC contrast in what they do with their love for WWX.

But JC is also very significant as a foil to the story's MC, WWX. His choices are frequently contrasted with WWX's to show that WWX has more heroic qualities and a healthier mindset.

In terms of morals, WWX is consistently given the morally superior position to the one advocated by JC:

Jiang Cheng, "It served you right to be bored to death. You shouldn't have played the hero and you shouldn't have cared for such a hell of a thing. If in the beginning you didn't..."

Suddenly, Jiang FengMian spoke, "Jiang Cheng."

Jiang Cheng paused, knowing that he had said too much. He was quiet at once.

Jiang FengMian didn't look as if he was blaming him of anything, but his expression had turned from calm to more solemn, "Do you know in which ways what you just said is not appropriate?"

Jiang Cheng's head hung low, "Yes."

Wei WuXian, "He's just angry and speaking without care."

Seeing how Jiang Cheng's mouth and heart were still at odds, how he still felt defiant, Jiang FengMian shook his head, "A-Cheng, there are some things that can't be said even if you're angry. If you said them, it means you still don't understand the motto of the Jiang Sect, that you still don't…"

(Chapter 56, ExR)

I think there are several major things we see here, but I want to highlight two. First, JC simplifies the Xuanwu Cave situation as WWX "playing the hero." As we see later, with the fall of Lotus Pier all the way through the confrontation at Guanyin Temple, JC seems to have decided that WWX "playing the hero" is what led to the attack on Lotus Pier.

JC is objectively wrong. He acknowledges himself in Chapter 59 that the Wens would have come regardless of what WWX did, while WWX's actions in the Xuanwu Cave were the only effective strategy for actually getting them out of there alive -- JC had wanted to stay out of the confrontation between the Wens and LWJ-JZX, but that would most likely have led to the Wens killing everyone.

More importantly, though, JC's impulses here contrast strongly with WWX's. JC did not want to help LWJ, JZX, and Mianmian. He prioritized self-preservation over helping others. WWX, on the other hand, prioritized helping others over self-preservation, and the narrative validates his choice. JC's priorities would have led to the Wens killing all of their hostages, while WWX's decision to step in allowed all the hostages to live.

The second thing I want to highlight here is JFM's caution that some things should not be said even if you're angry. JFM isn't saying this to be cruel or because he hates JC -- the narrative even says that he did not look like he was blaming JC. But what JFM wants JC to understand is that words said in anger still matter.

JC continues to prioritize self-preservation, and this continues to contrast with WWX's more heroic decisions to help people:

Wei WuXian finally lost his temper, “Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you’re talking about? Take it back–don’t make me give you a thrashing! Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Uncle Jiang’s and Madam Yu’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?”

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism? No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

(Chapter 73, ExR)

This conversation further adds "paying debts" to the moral ledger. WWX is not just helping people here, including an innocent toddler and grandmother, he is repaying the debt the Jiangs owe Wen Ning and Wen Qing. JC is the one pretty explicitly saying that he does not care that he owes them a debt -- he acknowledges it ("Yes, they helped us before"), but he still prioritizes his own self-preservation.

This conversation shows that WWX is even more morally praiseworthy. JC explains that there are strong barriers to doing the right thing, and he lets those barriers deter him. JC's decision to give up in the face of potential adversity contrasts with WWX's decision to persevere and do the right thing anyway.

Though in this case, I don't think it was primarily the adversity that stopped JC from doing the right thing, which introduces another contrast. JC does not want to help the Wens, not because it's hard, but because he holds onto his hatred and resentment of them. WWX, on the other hand, generally does not hold onto resentment very much.

How people handle resentment is a major theme in this story, and one where I think JC's position as a foil is used very effectively to illustrate the negative consequences of holding onto resentment as opposed to WWX's healthier decision to let it go and move forward.

Wei WuXian, “Uh, I think it’s best if you…also stop keeping it on your mind. I know you’ll definitely always keep it on your mind, but, how should I say it…” He clenched Lan WangJi’s hand, saying to Jiang Cheng, “Right now, I do really think…it’s all in the past. It’s been too long. There’s no need to struggle with it any longer.”

(Chapter 103, ExR)

JC is a person who definitely keeps his resentments on his mind. His reputation throughout the present-day story is of a man obsessed with finding WWX again, even though WWX died thirteen years ago. He still blames WWX (and even LWJ, because WWX intervened in the Xuanwu Cave in part to protect him) for the fall of Lotus Pier (Chapter 87), and he has passed that perspective on to Jin Ling (Chapter 43). He continues to hate all Wens, even those who weren't actually related to the Wen Sect (Chapter 92). Half of what JC talks about when he confronts WWX about the core transfer is how finding out about it means he can no longer straightforwardly hate WWX for everything he continues to blame him for, even in that conversation (Chapters 102-103).

WWX, on the other hand, does not want to hold onto resentment. As he tells JC, he thinks it's best if they let it go. Holding onto resentment creates a struggle that prevents people from moving forward. We see this when he's talking to the people who came for the Second Siege of the Burial Mounds in Chapter 82 as well -- you can hold onto hatred or you can move on.

The narrative rewards WWX's path and cautions against JC's.

JC has become the kind of person who, as Jin Ling describes him, "had been cold, severe, and gloomy for years and years on end. Not a single lenient or merciful word left Jiang Cheng’s mouth if he could help it, nor was he ever willing to offer charity and kindness" (Chapter 23). He is unpleasant, and he is unhappy. And then he is punished with WWX leaving him behind and no reconciliation. His father told him that words said in anger still matter, and he disregarded that, and so he is punished with the person he consistently lashed out at deciding to stay away from him. He doesn't get a happy ending because he hasn't earned it.

WWX, on the other hand, decides to move forward. If he had wanted to hold onto grudges for everything that happened to him, he could hate almost the whole cultivation world, but he doesn't decide to do that. He could resent the Lans for their part in the siege, but instead he views them as his husband's family and makes a home with them. He decides to focus on the positive, and he is given a happy ending with the love of his life. The narrative rewards him for his choices and his mindset.

So to return to your original question -- what I think of JC is that he is a cautionary tale. He consistently picks the wrong action, the wrong reaction, the wrong priorities. Part of his role in the story is to be wrong.

And there is nothing wrong with having him do that, because he is a character in a story and this is part of why he exists.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #asks #anon #wei wuxian #lan wangji #jiang cheng #canon jiang cheng #xue yang #jin guangyao #quote heavy posts #antagonists #narrative foils #jc exists to be worse than wwx and lwj

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