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beautifulterriblequeen · 3 years

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AMA reread headcanon #2

I’m having further thoughts about Moonshadow assassin capabilities after rereading this ama question, which basically asks, Why didn’t Viren hide Harrow in the dungeon or somewhere, away from the Moonshadow assassins?

The given answer says, “I think hiding him anywhere was never really an option. The Moonshadow assassins would have had ways of locating him and slipping in no matter where he was...”

My initial guess, last fall, was this: since there already seems to be some kind of internal life-force sensor that Moonshadows can use--the way Lujanne simply touches Zym’s egg and determines that his life is fading--perhaps that skill can be honed and shifted from merely sensing all life around you in a beautiful symphony, to seeking one life force in particular, no matter where it is, for the purposes of hunting it down and taking it. A sort of Moonshadow Cerebro, if you will, which probably takes a lot of practice to achieve, and maybe a lot of focus to hold onto during a mission. Perhaps this is what Runaan was meditating on, the morning of the full moon: Harrow’s and Ezran’s life forces, pinging softly in the distance, somewhere in the castle.

Yeah, creepy and dark, turning a Moonshadow connection to life into a tracking skill for death. *shudders* I love it.

But yesterday, I was staring at this line and wondering whether there was more. See, it’s one thing to sense your target no matter where they are. But it’s another to do that slipping-in thing that the creators mentioned.

Viren says in S1E2 that Moonshadow assassins can “penetrate any defense.” Any at all? How would that work if you put Harrow behind a slew of locked doors? Magical barriers? Defensive monsters? All of the above at once?

One of the other AMA answers, paraphrased on reddit, got me thinking:

"Moonshadow elves partially slip into a dimension of the moon granting them full stealth mode."

If a partial shift into the dimension of the moon grants invisibility yet leaves them present this dimension, what would a full shift grant?

Here’s my guess, then, for a second layer of Moonshadow assassin skills that can be put to use on a mission: an accomplished and practiced assassin can focus their life force during a full moon and project themselves fully into the dimension of the moon--the world that Rayla visited in TTM. Doing so is basically dying, and they have to be perfectly poised and precise in order to come back into the real world exactly where they mean to--and not inside a wall or something--within a probably-short time limit like the 7 minutes it takes your brain to die if you lose access to oxygen or something. It’s a very risky move! But if anyone is going to push themselves to the limit of death--and beyond--to accomplish a mission, it’s a Moonshadow assassin.

The implications of such a skill are fabulous. Only the best assassins can probably do this, and they'll probably need a completely full moon to do it. But the effect would be terrifying. There you sit, surrounded by three dozen guards, behind eight magical wards, where not even a stray spider can sneak in, and suddenly there's a whisper of movement right behind you, and then you're dead. And not one of your guards sees a damn thing. They’d panic and bolt, and the word would get out: Moonshadow assassins are unstoppable.

The key here is what Viren believes the assassins are capable of. He knows better than to try to hide Harrow. His only suggestion was to try to mislead the assassins with a soul switcheroo, which could call back to the idea of Moonshadows being able to track a single life force. Whether Viren expected their tracking to follow Harrow’s body instead of his soul, or simply to be confused by two separate sources, I couldn’t say. But his soulfang solution seems like the TDP equivalent of trying to hide your heat signature from infrared scanners by hopping into a hot tub with a breathing straw.

So here I am with this really cool headcanon about a powerful and frankly dangerous Moonshadow ability, and I ask myself, Self, what kind of cool thing could this ability be used for?

I’m so predictable. You know where I’m headed, right?

I am super invested in Runaan's story arc, and in his character development. I'm eagerly awaiting S4 to see what happens next! We all want our favorite broody assassin set free so he can go be dramatic and stabby and also soft with his husband. It's basically a universal headcanon at this point that Runaan will be freed from his coin at some point, in some way.

You know which version of “Free Runaan” I'm not sure I've ever seen? Runaan rescuing himself. Considering his thematic elements and his coding, that's actually a really important idea. People in trauma aren't helpless damsels out of a fairy tale. They're people. And they deserve agency just like everyone else.

Within the plot of TDP, such a concept would need to be folded in with everything else that’s going on, though. Rayla still has to find her truth, and to deal with her motivations and choices. She deserves agency, too, as does Ethari, Callum, Claudia, Viren, Aaravos, Nyx, and anyone who might get included in the coin storyline.

It would be great to see Runaan use a Moonshadow dimension-slip to escape his coin to somewhere else. Where would he go? Well, there are a few possibilities, but “the real world” probably shouldn’t be one of them. If he can get out of hell on his own, and then need some guidance getting back to the real world--and to his family--from there, that lets multiple characters decide if and how much to lend a hand.

Trauma lies. It tells you that you’re alone, the only one who feels so horrible. But that’s not true. It’s never true. So the more characters who contribute to Runaan’s freedom, the better. Especially since it’ll be really good for him to experience, considering he’s spent his life holding everyone at arm’s length. It’ll be a good message of cooperation, and of forgiveness, and those are some of TDP’s strongest themes.

But so is agency! Having a voice, having a say in your own fate. I’m not sure how much of a say Runaan has really had in his own fate. That’s some information I’m also eagerly awaiting! Seeing him get to participate, even a little, in his own rescue from the hellcoin would be amazing, and maybe it could happen with a cool, scary, dramatic Moonshadow power like being able to walk in the land of the dead for a few minutes or something.

Runaan’s a badass, okay, show it to me, give. But also, just imagine some wild twist like Rayla struggling for most of S4 to find him and her parents, fighting, making allies, learning secrets, doing stealth stuff, figuring out who to trust, all building up an absolutely stellar arc for her, and at last she somehow gets that coin pouch, and she dumps it out, and while she’s so relieved to finally have found her parents again... Runaan’s coin is blank. Dun Dun DUNNNNNN, cue the credits!

#tdp speculation #tdp theory #tdp meta #runaan #moonshadow elves #moonshadow assassins #tdp #tdp ama #tw trauma #haha but what clues would be in the credits sketches then #the animal doctor listening to the coin with a stethoscope #zym biting it #ethari holding like seven tools at once and wearing goggles as he studies it #janai using her sunforge blade on it while amaya gazes admiringly #claudia suddenly hearing a commotion inside her own belt pouch #help me i gotta stop thinking it's too much fun

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babygirl06301 · 3 years

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When Did Dean Fall In Love With Cas?

tl;dr: S11

I’ve wanted to talk about this since the show ended and the Spanish dub that broke Tumblr came out. So, when did Dean Winchester fall in love with Castiel?

This is entirely my opinion of course, and I know there are some people that will say it was right away or that it never happened at all, but I wanted to put my thoughts out there so other people could tell me their thoughts, too. I’ll probably get off on some tangents here and there, so feel free to send me any Destiel thoughts you’ve got.

Also, it’s worth noting that, to me, there’s a difference between falling in love and actually being in love. I mean, if you’ve fallen in love with someone, every point in your relationship has been a stepping stone to that point, so I guess it’s all abstract, but still. Hence, S11 being my answer to this question.

Keep in mind I’m doing this without the benefit of a recent rewatch, so I may miss some behaviors from Dean that would change a few things.

Warning: sappy stuff ahead; read at your own risk (also crappy images).

S4-5

I don’t think it’s that big of a secret that Dean attached himself to Cas, like, right away. I mean, the dude never talks about his emotions, and yet, it took eight episodes of Cas being around for Dean to break down in front of him and talk about his fears. It’s almost like you could say that’s because they were always meant to fall for each other.

However, I don’t really the think the process of falling in love with Cas had started yet. I do think that Dean cared about Cas, but I don’t think it was anything extremely special. Reason being: it was the literal end times and Dean didn’t have that type of time. That, and I think there’s something to be said for being raised a certain way and believing certain things about yourself that affects how long it takes for you to notice that something has changed. So, yeah. I don’t think Cas had been around long enough at this point for Dean to start feeling anything more than kinship with him.

That’s not to say, though, that Dean didn’t subconsciously find Cas hot or get the warm fuzzies sometimes because:

I mean, come on.

S6-7

So, this era is weird because I do think something had begun to change in how Dean saw Cas, but I don’t think he got to fully begin the process of falling in love with him because: a.) Cas betrayed them and b.) Sam’s head was broken.

I’m gonna say something rude now: I think a lot of the Destiel moments in the beginning of S6 were born of Dean needing Castiel’s abilities as an angel and not of needing Cas. For example, Dean calling on Cas to help with the Staff of Moses or with Soulless!Sam. He was usually pretty demanding and sometimes curt with Cas and got irritable when Cas couldn’t help.

However, I think that Cas always being there despite his battle in Heaven began to shift Dean’s feelings toward him. I do think this change was almost imperceptible, but you can see Dean showing more and more concern for Cas as S6 progresses. Like this:

This is the primary reason I think Dean got so defensive of Cas when Bobby and Sam started suggesting that Cas was working with Crowley. It’s also why he got so hurt when he found out that Bobby and Sam were right.

Here’s my super abstract and vague take on it: he’d started feeling romantic emotions for Cas, but as soon as Cas’s betrayal was revealed, it got replaced with pain. Basically, Dean almost started to fall for Cas in S6, and then the Purgatory storyline interrupted it.

And then Cas died. Which didn’t help.

Here we enter S7, which has fuck all for Destiel content beyond the first two episodes—until Cas comes back. I know some people are going to say not to gloss over the trench coat thing, and fair enough. I think the keeping of the trench coat was akin to Dean trying to hold onto what he did feel for Cas, obviously not consciously. Almost as though Dean could tell he’d lost something special when Cas died, and not just in losing Cas, but in losing part of himself, a part that he didn’t know existed yet. I don’t consider the trench coat to be a sign that Dean was falling in love with Cas but a sign that he was about to or that he could’ve. Is that weak? Whatever.

Now, I do think that some shit got shaken loose when Dean saw Cas again because, for all intents and purposes, he should’ve been pissed. But instead he was... whatever this is:

I still, more or less, think that he was too preoccupied with Sam to really begin falling in love with Cas. I think that’s clear to see in how he treated Cas after he came back into the story for the final battle with the Leviathan. He did give the whole “I’d rather have you” speech, but all the stuff before that was more along the lines of “Nobody cares that you’re broken, Cas! Clean up your mess!” So, yeah.

Okay, so this is where the Purgatory stuff comes in. In the words of the great John Mulaney, “we don’t have time to unpack all of that,” but this is where I believe Dean started falling in love with Cas.

Dean told Sam that Purgatory felt pure because he could only focus on the fight at all times... but he still had the emotional availability to worry about and search for Cas, so...

If I had to pick an exact moment, I’d say somewhere around here:

And thus, rather than just keeping a trench coat when he lost Cas, Dean literally rewired his own memories because he would rather think that he left Cas behind than think that Castiel chose to leave him.

From here, we can start seeing Dean paying attention to Cas more, noticing when he’s not being himself, and more than that, worrying about him in a more personal way. For instance, when Dean insists that Cas talk to him about what’s bothering him in “Hunteri Heroici.” Not to mention, Dean becomes a lot more emotionally vulnerable regarding his feelings for Cas. One example would be when he insists that he didn’t abandon Cas in Purgatory. Another would be, of course:

I would also mark this season as the season Dean’s prayers to Cas become more emotional and, at times, cathartic, as though he’s confiding in Cas. In “Remember the Titans,” for example, Dean prays to Cas to ask him to look out for Sam; the scene reads like Dean is asking for help but is, in equal measure, asking for Cas. This is also the first season an adversary pokes at Dean and Cas’s relationship in a way that specifically targets Dean and his feelings about Cas rather than Cas’s feelings about Dean as it had been before; this would be when Naomi says “You’re hoping Castiel will return to you.”

S9-S10

Well, these seasons are complicated to say the least because of Gadreel and the Mark of Cain. I don’t think, at this point, Dean ever stops feeling what he’s feeling for Cas. However, I do think that a lot of the hiccups throughout S9 and S10 made Dean step away from those feelings.

Of course, Dean is still stressing about Cas 24/7 in the beginning of S9 what with Cas being human, Cas being hunted, Cas dying, Cas working at a Gas-n-Sip—you know, drama. I think when Gadreel said that Cas needed to stay away if Dean wanted Sam to be healed, Dean had to let what he was feeling for Cas go—not that that means he stopped feeling it, mind you. No, I don’t think Dean consciously went, “Well, guess I’m done falling for this dude,” but I think he knew somewhere in his heart that it wasn’t the time.

Now, the Mark of Cain. The storyline that put the characters down on the page once and left them stagnant and unchanging until it was resolved. Now, as you might imagine, slowly turning into a demon that wants nothing but death would put a damper on any relationship. Finding Destiel in the B season for S9 and throughout S10 is hard. Especially on Dean’s end.

There are moments when you can tell that Dean’s feelings for Cas are still there, and I would say, developing slowly, like the cheeseburger date. Probably the biggest Destiel moment in the entire Mark of Cain stretch is when Dean nearly kills Cas but resists, despite the Mark’s hold on him.

That’s really it, though. No backwards movement, but barely anything trending the opposite way, either.

S11

This is the Big Season™, the one I believe Dean fell in love with Cas in. Now, obviously, it isn’t like Dean lost the Mark, and boom, fell in love with Cas. Plus, there’s the whole pull-to-Amara thing. However, I don’t think falling in love necessarily has to be a big moment; I think it can just happen, and I think that’s what happened with Dean. At some point between the start of this season and Cas being released from Lucifer’s possession, Dean fell in love with Cas.

That being said—if I was really reaching for a moment—I wouldn’t say it happened during a happy scene. I’d say Dean fell in love with Cas when he lost him.

I know that sounds weird, that Dean didn’t fall in love with Cas completely until he realized Cas had been possessed by Lucifer, but in my head, it fits. I think it’s because Dean is so emotionally closed off and tries not to let his emotions show if he can help it that it took knowing that Cas was gone for that last switch to flip in his heart.

So, now Dean is in love with Cas, but Cas is Lucifer. I’d say this has something to do with the fact that, even though Dean is supposed to be attached to Amara, he still calls out for Cas even though Amara is right in front of him.

Considering the fact that Cas comes back in the literal last episode—at least, that’s when Dean realizes he’s back—there isn’t a whole hell of a lot of time to see how being in love with Cas has changed Dean. We do get the “you’re our brother, Cas” scene, but seeing as how that’s pretty inconsistent with everything that comes afterward, let’s just chalk that one up to bad writing and/or Dean being dense.

S12

Alright, so my post should be done, yeah? I’ve answered the question I’ve set out to answer. However, there’s still more to talk about here. When did Dean first sense that what he felt for Cas was different? When did he have an inclination that it was romantic? When did he know for sure?

That’s why we’re here in S12. Now, S12 is the most Destiel-heavy season in the entire series. In my opinion, while it does have many of the best Destiel scenes, it doesn’t have the best Destiel scene. However, as far as number of moments, S12 takes it.

This is where we really get to see how being in love with Cas has changed Dean. Realistically, I think this has a lot to do with S12 being the beginning of the Dabb era because this era marked a change in tone for both Castiel’s character and his relationship with Dean. Dean began to worry about Cas a lot more frequently and, as a result, got mad at him a lot more, too. I see S12 as the season that Dean moved away from simply being worried about losing Cas to being terrified of losing Cas. And that translated into anger any time Castiel put himself in danger. For example, killing Billie. Any other time, the threat of losing Cas translated itself into fear, like when Cas nearly died from being stabbed with the Lance of Michael.

Of course, the mixtape is also in this season, which is another example of how being in love with Cas has affected Dean. I could probably make an entirely seperate and very long post regarding Destiel in S12, but the general idea is that Dean’s newly found love for Cas made a big difference in how he treated Cas.

S13

Alright, S13 stands outs to me because I believe this is when Dean first realized that Cas meant something more to him than a friend and that he felt differently about him than he did about his family. Again, I don’t think that Dean actually thought those exact words, but I think his heart knew them to be true even if he mind didn’t. Reason being: Cas had just died. Which is the first time Castiel has died since Dean fell in love with him. Dean knew he needed Cas, in a way he hadn’t really realized it before. Which is why he demands that Chuck bring him back.

Then Cas comes back, and it’s like Dean forgets what hopelessness and misery are because Cas is his “big win.” After this, honestly, there isn’t much else by way of emotional development for Dean regarding Cas, but I see that as a good thing. It’s a sign that, though Dean hasn’t realized it yet, being in love with Cas is comfortable for him. There are still expressions of concern for Cas’s wellbeing throughout the season, but mostly, we just get to see Dean be content with Cas.

S14

Alright, S14 a.) mostly saw Dean’s feelings much in the same place as they were in S13 and b.) just kidding because Dean tells Cas that he’s dead to him in this season.

To be fair, if we’re talking Destiel, there’s more of it on Castiel’s end this season than there is on Dean’s because Dean is dealing with Michael. There are a couple moments that stand out to me as moments where Dean’s love for Cas comes through: when Cas asks Dean if his plan to trap himself in the Ma’lak Box means that they’re supposed to say goodbye and when Dean confides in Cas about how he’s handling keeping Michael trapped. In the former scene especially, I think it’s clear to see how much the idea of saying goodbye to Cas affects Dean.

And then we get to “Absence,” which is the episode where Dean tells Cas that he’ll be dead to him if Jack killed Mary. Now, going off on a tangent here to explain how this ties into Dean being in love with Cas, let’s talk about when Dean gets mad at Cas.

When Dean gets mad at Castiel, it’s always out of pain. I think that’s a very unique effect that Cas has on Dean that no one else does, and I believe it’s because Dean gets so overwhelmed with the emotion of betrayal that all he can do is push Cas away. Why a feeling of betrayal? Well, in this case, it’s because Cas knew something was wrong with Jack and didn’t say anything. I think that, as Dean fell more and more in love with Cas, his expectations and feelings for him grew, and because of that, when he feels like he’s been let down by Cas, it turns into rage.

When Dean walks away from Sam, it’s usually because he’s either worried or angry. With Jack, he walked away because of anger, maybe even disgust. But with Cas, it’s always pain; it’s always because Dean feels like he’s been personally betrayed in a way that has nothing to do with worrying about Cas and everything to do with wanting to hurt Cas back. It’s almost a selfish sort of anger, which is actually a positive for Dean’s character since he rarely puts himself first.

To me, the way Dean gets mad at Cas—especially in S14—is so personal and unique that it serves as proof as to why Dean is in love with Cas. So, even though the “then you’re dead to me” line is so damaging, it’s still a result of Dean loving Cas.

S15

Last season. The hardest season by far, for a lot of reasons. I’m not going to get into the lack of closure the ending of this show gave us in terms of Dean and Castiel, and I’m not going to talk about this final season in conjunction with the Spanish dub—just what I, as an English speaker experienced in canon since that’s what was intended in the final cut—but I will talk about everything else. There’s three episodes/points I’m going to hit with this season, and I’m sure we all know them: “The Rupture,” “The Trap,” and “Despair.”

I’ve already discussed why Dean’s anger points to his being in love with Cas, but I think the important thing to note with “The Rupture” is that Dean still didn’t want to lose Cas, even in the moments when he was hurting Cas and pushing him away.

There’s still a couple questions I’ve asked that I haven’t answered yet, and one of them will be answered with “The Trap.” I think this episode—and really, the moment Cas told him he heard his prayer—marks the first time that Dean considered that his feelings might be romantic. I don’t know how clear those thoughts were or if Dean told himself he was wrong afterward, but I do think that that scene was the beginning of possibility for Dean and Cas. Had they had enough time, they would’ve decided to be together, and that scene is where they both really felt it for the first time—even if they didn’t believe the other felt the same way.

I’ll be honest: I really don’t want to talk about “Despair” because it’ll just make me sad. Alas, there is one question that still needs to be answered: When did Dean know that he was in love with Cas?

When it was already too late. Much like in S11, I think it took Dean losing Cas to realize how he felt about him. The difference here is: I think Dean would’ve realized it regardless; hearing how Cas felt about him and then losing Cas just forced it. Had Cas not died, I don’t believe it would’ve been too long before Dean realized it naturally, and that’s the most frustrating thing about this scene is that Dean didn’t have to learn how he felt through the trauma of losing Cas.

I’m not trying to diminish this scene because, had there been closure—and proper editing—I’d say this scene was the perfect avenue for Castiel’s character to go down because it would mean that, when he came back, he could be with Dean.

Again, I’m not getting into the semantics of the final couple episodes or how they handled Destiel because it’ll just make me mad, but I think Dean realizing he was in love with Cas was just as big of a factor in him seeing himself differently as Cas’s speech was. I think Dean wanted to honor Cas by being the person Castiel saw him as; I think Dean wanted to live as a man worthy of being loved by the man he fell in love with.

Anyway, that’s my take on when Dean Winchester fell in love with Castiel based on what canon gave us. As someone who had been very realistic about the possibility of Destiel over the years and had never truly hoped for it in canon because I knew better, I have never been more convinced that Dean is in love with Castiel as I am now, after the show has ended.

I don’t think I can say I believe he was in love with him all along, but I believe that his story, their story, of falling in love is real and true, however long it may have taken. I’ll never say goodbye to these two, but I’m happy that I can at least walk away from this show knowing that they found each other in the end, even if their ending didn’t do justice to their legacy.

Let me know when you think Dean fell in love Cas or vise versa. I’m curious to know what you see in their relationship. I don’t think I’ll be making a post like this for Castiel because, in my opinion, Cas fell in love with Dean rather quickly—his journey was just realizing what that meant. Anyway, thank you for reading this, and thank you for being a part of this twelve year long love story that is Destiel.

#destiel #casdean #cas x dean #dean x cas #dean winchester #castiel #spn #supernatural

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carmenxjulia · 3 years

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Another Duane interview transcript, coming at you! This one was from a smaller Carmen Sandiego chatroom. There were several interviewers, so that’s why the name of the question asker changes. Get the details below the break! Stay tuned, more interview transcripts coming soon.

Duane Capizzi:

HI EVERYONE! I'M IN!

Sorry I'm late, I got lost on the way haha. Then got lost trying to change my PFP

Thanks for gathering! Shall we get started? Let's do some Q&A!

(as long as they are not geography questions haha)

Fuel:

What characters or plot points were cut from the final product?

Duane Capizzi:

Ooo, starting with a right hook to the jaw!

Let me think about that for a moment: I'm hesitant to give too much away because I'm really hoping we can tell more stories in this world at some point

Which is to say, we tend not to waste anything: if we don't use it when we originally planned, we usually find a way to use something later - and there's usually a "karmic" reason that we waited.

I'll also preface by saying this: I know season 3 was more of a mini-drop and some felt season 4 was rushed. But I wish EVERY season were longer. Season 1: ideally, i wanted the Pilot to be its own event and 10 more episodes after that (but we had to tell the post-Pilot story in 7. At the end of the day, that had its benefits: we got to the Shadowsan turn earlier and I think that's when a lot of viewers realized the ride they were truly in for). Season 2: we initially figured we'd need 5 episodes to have Carmen doing the ACME dance with Chief, and wound up doing it in 3 - mostly because it quickly became clear that Rio needed to be a 2 parter, and the Zack and Ivy backstory a rough 2 parter. So we squeezed 3 episodes worth of plot into 209. It was exhilarating!

So, we had hoped to have more episodes for Season 4 of course. We had a ton of ideas and had to compress things a bit. But honestly in many ways it was for the better. I know we all wanted to live in this world longer, but I think sometimes the flip side is true - when you have big ongoing storylines, it can get frustrating when some things drag out too long. But, we got all the "story" we wanted to tell in Season 4 - we just lost some "incident" if that makes sense. We would have taken longer to get there.

So, all that preface to answer the question: we wanted to do more musical numbers! We had a Bollywood dance sequence in a return to India caper with Paperstar. We wanted to do a famous Elvis suit theft in Las Vegas during an Elvis impersonator convention (Shadowsan's an early elvis guy; Brunt likes the Vegas "jumpsuit" era). We also wanted to do a thread where Gunnar gets captured by ACME so that Julia could interrogate him and he could play mind games with her a la Hannibal Lector and Clarice. CAVEAT TO ALL THIS: these were some ideas that were bouncing around, that may not have seen the light of day if we couldn't get them to work. But they were on our wish list.

re: "other stories" - I could live with these characters for another 32 episodes easily and there have of course been discussions. But alas, that is up to the powers that be. Let's keep fingers crossed - and keep the Carmen love alive online so that someone up there takes note

There is more of course, but those are some things that spring to mind.

Fuel:

Were there any scenes cut for time that were your favorite?

Duane Capizzi:

Not much springs to mind: our directors were amazing at getting everything in the scripts to fit naturally (and in fact, I was the one who was usually suggesting trims to let other things breathe, etc). We were limited to 22 minutes of episode time, NOT counting front and end credits so a little longer than the average show. We have a pretty good idea when the SCRIPT is too long, so the cutting usually happens at script stage before it gets to the board crew so that they don't waste efforts over-boarding material that won't be used.

We had hoped to build out Chase and Carmen teaming up for the first time, meeting at Carmen's hotel lobby etc for more scenes of them together; but had to reduce that to get that all to fit in the VERY packed episode 406. But again, tighter was fine considering. That's one area that leaps to mind. (note that when I say packed, I don't mean that in a bad way: we spend a lot of time pouring over details in editing to make sure everything gets its due).

If I think of anything, I'll circle back at a later point. But the simple answer is that scenes were usually trimmed or compressed at script rather than board or animatic. So nothing comes to mind. I know it's hard to believe, but "shorter is usually better."

except for my answers to fan questions of course

Fuel:

We saw that in s4 episode 6 that Julia's mother(?) is wearing a necklace remarkably similar to the one Julia wears all the time. Is this the same necklace and if so, why was it given to Julia?

Duane Capizzi:

Just when I thought I was detail oriented! Wow! You guys blow me away

I can't take credit for that: it was either the board artist or director who added that. They do slip things in! As I've said before, EVERYONE on the crew really brought their A-game and were as deep thinking and as passionate as I was/am about the show.

It's a nice detail and I would say your interpretation works!

It took me three or four reviews before noticing that the team had slipped in baby Carmen near the play set in Mom's front yard at the end of 408. When I caught it, I was like: bravo!

Fuel:

When they first met, Zack and Ivy said to Carmen that they were the only family they had, do you know what happened to the rest of Zack and Ivy's family?

Duane Capizzi:

I don't. At least, I don't yet until such a time that I might have the opportunity to explore that. It was important to their relationship with Carmen that they be orphans, so they had that common bond (aside from being "thieves who steal from bad guys" - even if it was only gonna be one time for Zack and Ivy).

I know there are writers out there who like to do entire bio's for characters up front but i'm not one of them. It could be a trap in many ways. I like to have a general idea but be open to the demands of the ongoing storyline. You discover things along the way - it's like you're taking a journey with the characters by writing them, and the longer you spend, the better you get to know them (that was not a prepared statement by the way - I just made that up but I'll have to use it again :). So in Z/I's case it wasn't important to the story or Carmen's relationship, we felt. Conversely, we STARTED with Shadowsan's family backstory with 203, but more important to me was that we use it as a platform to explain why he stays with Carmen and crew. He really has no home at that point, so it was relevant to the present ongoing story. Which is what made that especially powerful to me.

Also, there's always a push-pull between telling character back stories while balancing them with ongoing episodic plots. You have to service both. If you just tell back story, then you're writing a biography

Arden:

What was the biggest challenge when designing these characters, especially the pre-existing characters from the series in the 90's?

Duane Capizzi:

This is probably more of a question for Chromosphere, re: challenges. But from my standpoint overseeing that process, the first thing I'll say is that we weren't necessarily trying to be "true" to those characters since we reinvented nearly every one from the ground up. (with the exception of Carmen of course - her trademark red hat/coat weren't going anywhere! But mostly the update with Carmen was in the styling of her "outerwear"

ALTHOUGH: I will admit that I was pushing for Carmen to have shorter hair as Carmen. I thought it would be a cool update. Chromosphere were really passionate about giving her long full hair and I have to see that they were right. The short tomboy cut worked so well for Black Sheep anyway. We had a different hair style for each of her ages.

So about the reinventions: Gunnar is in spirit a similar character to the original (old colleague in Vile and an early mentor if I remember), but his presentation completely different. We weren't trying to be "in canon" with the original. The beauty of CSD is that every incarnation has been its own entity so that freed us to reimagine the characters. THE CLEANERS, for instance: gimme some Cleaner love! There were a pair of janitors from the original game named RICK AND NICK ICK. They were literally janitors, it was too silly for our purposes. But, it's one small step to make them "Cleaners" (in the sinister hit men sense) - and lo, our reinvention.

So to summarize the answer to your question, they weren't really challenges to me so much as FUN to creatively reinvent the original characters (many of which were from the game, so not really "characters" per se with dialogue and inner lives). Whenever we could, we tried to use character names from the originals and update their looks and personalities. Where we couldn't find an equivalent for what we needed, we created characters from whole cloth. For instance, it seemed a miss to do a heist show without a tunnel guy and a high rise climber guy. Hence, LC & ET, everyone's favorite taco truck vendors!

(yes, i've seen some short hair carmen fan art on Twitter - someone did a great one recently!)

Arden:

Are there plans to give us more of the characters in, say, novel/graphic novel form?

Duane Capizzi:

I know HMH has done a bunch and no doubt have more in works. There's currently a novelization of the Pilot with some additional material if anyone's interested. I consulted on the second one, Clue for Clue, because it falls in the timeline while Chase was still Interpol/pre-Acme so was tricky.

And depending on whether another series in this canon makes it to air, I may just approach them about writing one or two myself to get some "further adventures" our there. Anything is possible!

Arden:

If you could go back and change anything about the series, what would it be?

Duane Capizzi:

File under anecdote, but there was what I felt was an important expression on Gray that kept me awake at nights, from his graduation ceremony at Vile. When we revisited those flashbacks in the Gray arc in Season 4, I had them change his expression there (to be more evil less innocent). We had it corrected in 404 so was able to get permission to have Netflix "fix" the Pilot by adding that shot in. I am tenacious!

We really poured over everything, it's the series that I have virtually zero complaints with the end product to be honest. But the simple answer is: I would have gone back to 106 and "un-greek'd" Gray's nametag. It's sort of a rule for international that we scramble signage (which is weird for a show that takes place in many countries/languages, I know I know). It's mostly for localization/translation reasons. And I'm sure there are some countries where Gray's name might be spoken differently. But as a proper name, I think we could have made an exception and seen "Gray" on his name tag. See? Details! But that's about the worst of it

there's also like one small line from Chief in 208 where she indicates she knows Carmen is a good guy (something to that effect) which I felt was too absolute and would have tweaked the line to temper it a bit. It's tiny, but looking back it sort of bugs me and I kick myself for not catching it. But this is absolutely the series I wanted and couldn't be happier.

Carmen:

How did Carmen know she could trust Julia? As far as we know, she has not seen or heard Julia defending her, and in the Fashionista Caper, Julia even held up her gas gun to her, saying she was under arrest. Do you have any opinions on this? Was it just intuition?

Duane Capizzi:

I'm gonna go with intuition

Carmen was raised on an island with some hardened criminal types. I think she's a pretty good judge of character. Poor Julia, trying to be tough with Carmen didn't suit her.

But, great observation! I'd have to mentally step through everything to see if Carmen had any earlier indication but i think you're right there.

Yes, sometimes you just gotta follow your heart

Carmen:

Are there any characters that didn't actually interact that you think would get along well?

Duane Capizzi:

Amazing question! First, I'd have to think more about who DIDN'T meet - you're asking the hard questions haha. But "get along well" is very specific! Hmmm, care to volley anyone?

I'll also add that so many smaller moments get lost in the "binge" of it all, but I am surprised how few fans have noted the first meeting between Player and Julia. THAT was a good one IMO! Very sweet!

Before getting back to your question, I also want to add that we were originally going to find a way for Carmen to lose her earring in Stockholm so that Julia could pick it up and be communicating with Player. BUT, I cut it at treatment stage because I knew we didn't have room in that episode to service it. Circling back to questions 1 & 2, another case where it turned out better saved for later IMO (saving Player meeting Julia, not to mention the earring business in 402 with Ivy).

Oh of course, Julia and any of the other Vile members. It would have been Gunnar for my vote, as mentioned earlier. We probably would not have had Julia meet anyone else and mixed it up more. I like that Cleo sort of became J's personal nemesis.

YES, SONIA & XIFENG (and LUPE PELIGRO, if I can add). The intent was (and is, if we ever get to revisit) to see them again in Carmen's travels. We started to expand Carmen's world but when we finally learned the finite number of episodes we had to finish the story, we drilled back down into the essentials. Would love to see them some day!

I'm hesitant to share too many things I have in mind in this forum for hope that they will see the light of day one day. You know, "spoilers"

Julia:

Do you have any opinions on Zari? Just in general? Some thoughts on her backstory would be nice if possible

Duane Capizzi:

I love Zari! I really don't have any back story on her at this point. She was originally just "Agent B" but when the need arose to give story points to another agent, we chose her because she looked so awesome! And Sharon Muthu gave voice to her so wonderfully.

I love when we finally teamed her with Chase. Hopefully the anticipation was that she would give him a hard time. I love that we defied expectation (organically, of course) and had her respect him by the end of that episode (for believing that he foiled Carmen!)

Julia:

Do you have any thoughts on small facts about any character, major or minor, that you think are fun/interesting to think about, but don't necessarily add to the plot itself?

Duane Capizzi:

Bellum, like myself, likes cats. But you knew that!

I try to put everything pertinent on screen, doing double duty to service any given episode's story but also the overarching story. That "journey" thing I mentioned earlier - we had no idea Chase falling on his own car would be a thing when I first came up with it. But as other characters refer to the incident, it took on a life of its own and made the characters feel more real.

Sorta kinda related to this question and some earlier ones, I will say that I DO think there's more to learn about Shadowsan's past vis a vis Lady Dokuso: it's clear to me that they have a history together, and it's something I hope to explore someday soon (maybe in a book if not another series

Julia:

Are the Carmen Sandiego books a part of canon?

Duane Capizzi:

I only consulted on the first two or three (too busy with series!) and have not read them, so hard for me to answer in a definite way. They are definitely in the universe we've created, but not in the timeline that I know of (which would have been too hard to pull off with our script development running concurrently). But do know that the book team at HMH pays close attention to the series and world so they should be perfectly compatible. Look no further to their clever social media on the series for example.

Kenz:

We saw in season 4 that Julia and Carmen helped each other mid to long term; would there ever be a possibility that Julia would permanently or semi-permanently join team Red?

Duane Capizzi:

Of course there's a possibility. But in a sense, with ACME now finally on Carmen's side, in a sense if Carmen were back in the game Julia, Chase, Zack and Ivy would ALL be an extension of Carmen's crew. But, would J remain with ACME or literally come to Carmen's team at her HQ? As they said in an old radio show: "Only The Duane Capizzi knows ..."

Kenz:

Where do you see Carmen in her retirement (if she retires)? Do you think she would still travel the world or settle down somewhere? Similarly, do you have any thoughts on what some other characters could be doing years down the line?

Duane Capizzi:

That is a big question, and one difficult to answer without some potential future spoilers (and yes, I really want to tell more Carmen stories if you can't tell But I'll answer by giving you one "read" on our open-ended ending as seen in 408 (read no further if you haven't seen it - yeah, right haha). The ending suggests to me that Carmen settled down for a spell to forge that relationship with her mother, to make up for lost time. But, if that is indeed Carmen that we see on the rooftop, I think the ending suggests that Carmen doesn't stay still for very long. If Vile is back, there is work to be done! Carmen has a life mission - she's one determined lady.

But of course, it's deliberately ambiguous: "anyone with your heart, wisdom and courage can be Carmen Sandiego." Is it Carmen? Sonia? Someone we haven't met? I think both endings resonate: Caroline and I always said "Carmen is bigger than a person, Carmen is a movement" would be a great message to end the series on. And I think our ending resolves this chapter of Carmen's journey as a person, but also elevates her to mythic status. Which is why I love it!

And, that seems to me a pretty perfect question and answer to end our chat on. Thanks everyone! Again, I cannot tell you how moved I am to see that we have such a passionate, intelligent and talented fan base. THANK YOU.

Take care guys, thanks again for having me! 'night!

#Carmen Sandiego #CS Crew #Duane Capizzi #Interview #Transcript

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inawickedlittletown · 4 years

Text

317/318 - Some Thoughts

Gonna put it under a cut for both spoilers and length. This is 4,700 words so you know, at it again with the rambling.

I’ll start off by saying that I really enjoyed this episode. This and last episode are called a two part finale and I definitely buy that as 3x17 sets up 3x18. In particular it sets up the return of Abby, something that everyone has known was coming and concerned about. And I think when it came down to it, it went down like I expected it to.

The episode opens on Abby and we get to have a glimpse of her fiance and the other people on the train and we learn that Abby lives in Phoenix. She also seems happy. And as someone that liked Abby, it was nice to see her again but even then it had me dreading seeing what it would do to Buck.

We move on to the station where Hen is doing a practice exam. Eddie is showing Buck a brochure for Summer Camp because Christopher wants to go. Immediately, Buck goes into protective dad mode because Christopher at a sleep away camp for two weeks? What if something happens? What if he gets homesick? Buck is definitely not on board with that and Eddie admits that he isn’t too thrilled either and that he was hoping for assurance from the team. Bobby is the one to offer it. Even Chim seems skeptical about Christopher (a city kid) going to summer camp and points out that Eddie’s plan to get reassurance clearly wasn’t well thought out.

This scene was adorable from how much Eddie just isn’t sure at all about his kid going to summer camp to Buck’s overprotective reaction and just the fact that Eddie was showing the brochure to Buck in hopes that Buck would make him feel better about the whole thing and give him a different perspective. Perhaps Eddie expected Buck to be more open to the idea of Christopher taking chances and becoming even more independent (as much as a kid can) and expected Buck to push for the fun rather than have Buck be more cautious and concerned. And while the rest of the 118 do get involved in the conversation, it is clear that Eddie was looking for Buck’s opinion. It is in the end Bobby who supports the camp idea because of course Bobby did Summer Camp as a kid in between the figure skating, hockey, and probably being a boy scout. And while I love knowing so much about Bobby as a kid, when do we get to find out more about Buck’s childhood? Hen speaks up then and she mentions how Denny would not be into the whole camping thing which makes Eddie bring up how excited Christopher is and how the camp will have the kids garden their own vegetables and cook and Buck immediately calls it “child labor” which I just love because he’s so clearly against the camp idea.

We then find out what’s happened with Athena’s fireplace — you know the one that Bobby and Michael decided would be a great idea to destroy simply because Athena was in the hospital and they were both having feelings. Of course, Athena is out of the hospital now and she is not happy about it. May’s graduation party is in two weeks and Athena couldn’t possibly hold a party with that mess in the middle of her living room. It’s a light moment that I love because we get to see fierce Athena and also May. We also find out that Michael will be getting his test results back finally (and it’s good results...but even better, Michael sees the doctor again in an elevator and by the end of the episode they’re on a date) and it’s the start of seeing that Athena is not doing well after what she went through in the last episode.

Athena is such a strong character. She’s not meek, she’s not someone that comes off as a victim or that appears vulnerable often and we’re seeing someone that hasn’t lost their fire but that is clearly shaken by what she’s gone through and I love that it’s not something shoved off to the side and that instead we get to see the repercussions of what she went through. And what I love the most about this is that Athena has such support from her family and from her friends and that they’re all there for whatever Athena needs to do even if that means stepping back from being a police officer. And it opens us up for an interesting storyline for her in S4.

We get a glimpse at Josh and Maddie at the call center next and Josh is preparing for his testimony for court and I really appreciate that Josh is getting that closure he needs by doing this and that we actually do get a glimpse of him later saying his piece. I think he absolutely deserves that and that hopefully next season he does get to find his footing and find a boyfriend because he deserves it so much. He’s suffered more than enough already.

And then we finally get to the main emergency of the episode. The train derailment and crash. This is one of those calls that is clearly huge and time consuming and that the show could have easily dragged out for two episodes. Indeed, it takes up a huge chunk of the episode’s screen time and while I think it was a great choice of an emergency I do wish that some of this had happened in the previous episode where all of the emergencies seemed routine and could have been taken out to really give the train a bigger spotlight.

The 118 arrive on the scene and Buck and Eddie are sent to check out the train car that’s practically on a 90 degree angle. Abby is out there trying to get back on the train to look for her fiance and Eddie goes to tell her no and Abby suddenly realizes he’s from the 118 which immediately means that she realizes Buck has to be around there somewhere.

I appreciated so much the way that Abby is desperate to go in and help because that’s just who she is. It’s the reason that in S1 she made sense with Buck — their need to help people brought them together and this is important because of the parallel that can be seen later when Abby explains why she never returned.

Buck in the meanwhile hangs back and he very clearly has one of those “just saw a ghost” moments when he first sees her and then he approaches and Abby says his name and there is a split second where the camera is on Eddie and Eddie’s expression just says “you’re Abby” because this is someone he’s heard about...this is someone that hurt Buck and in this scene Buck does not make it any easier for Eddie to not dislike Abby because there is just so much pain and confusion and worry mixed in Buck’s face as he gets near them because Buck is of course worried that Abby isn’t okay at first and then he has to come to terms with Abby freaking out because she’s worried about her fiance. Abby’s moved on. She never came back and she moved on.

The situation isn’t ideal, and Abby has to tell him about her fiance in a place and time where such information can only hurt Buck and looking at his face after she yells that she’s looking for her fiance, it’s clearly a blow.

In 3x16 we see Buck exploring the idea of what his life might end up being in the future because the job is the only thing he has going for him. And so for Abby to return with a whole other life and having moved on is a blow to Buck who probably didn’t expect to see Abby again and I think it brings back those feelings especially since we know from 3x16 that Buck has abandonment issues that Abby is very much a part of. However, I don’t think that Buck actually believes that he’ll end up like Red anymore.

Eddie is a bit of a bystander during all of this but when Buck can’t form words, he jumps in to ask Abby to describe the fiance. But after Eddie runs off, Buck turns to walk away but he then turns back to ask for the fiance’s name and this scene is done so so well in that Buck hesitates to say anything else to Abby but he forces himself to and there’s clearly some regret on Abby’s part. Buck is holding himself together and being professional and you can see that it takes absolutely everything in Buck to stop himself from letting his feelings of hurt and anger take over because the situation requires that Buck be a firefighter and be a hero and he can’t stop just because Abby showed up again and with a fiance that Buck has now promised to save. Oliver Stark’s acting in this scene — absolute perfection.

Just go back and rewatch that scene. The way that he delivers this line: “No. No. Don’t worry about it” with such restraint like he’s holding back words and like Abby speaking to him is physically hurting him — boy did that hurt to watch.

Buck and Eddie make their way up the train car and Buck gets to Sam first. Eddie is right there with him and it’s very interesting to me that Eddie and Buck just don’t talk about it at all. Yes, at this point when they’ve made it all the way up to where Sam is they can’t because Sam is the fiance and would overhear and professionalism but before that Eddie elects to let Buck take a moment. And Eddie despite knowing the conflict of interest involved here, doesn’t tell Bobby what happened, instead of that he trusts Buck to do the job and maybe he keeps a close eye on him.

Bobby sends Hen and Chim to help out on the ground with the rescue dogs and he goes up to help Buck and Eddie with Sam who is trapped by a beam. Things get complicated when they realize someone else is trapped by the beam and not just that but moving the beam off one means that other will likely die. There is no easy choice there and Eddie tells them both victims have an equal chance which does not make any of it easier.

Buck tells Sam that they don’t choose who lives and who dies and he’s talking to him and finds out that the wedding is in June and that furthermore he is a father. Abby has gone and found herself a whole family and he is just so hurt by it all...but that also means that Buck is even more determined to save him. When he returns to Bobby and Eddie though, they tell him that the other victim (let’s call her Rummer because I don’t think the character was given a name?) has better vitals and protocol says they save the person that is more likely to live.

This brings us to another perfect moment in this episode. One thing that makes Buck such an effective firefighter is how quickly he can think on his feet and figure out ways to rescue someone. We’ve seen this come up time and time again so it isn’t surprising that Buck has an alternative idea that will save both Sam and Rummer but of course it’s super risky. I think we needed this scene. Not only because it shows Buck once again being so willing to do whatever it takes but because of Buck’s state of mind and how there’s this pressure he’s putting on himself to bring Abby her fiance back because Buck sees Sam’s life as valuable. He says as much to Bobby — Sam is a father, he has a fiance. Buck on the other hand...his ex-girlfriend couldn’t even properly break up with him.

But this is also about Bobby and Buck. And this is the scene in conjunction with a scene we see later towards the end of the episode, that makes a point of finally bringing back up the way that Bobby worries about Buck and cares about Buck and how much Buck doesn’t see that. How much Buck doesn’t realize that he’s been lucky so far to get out nearly uscathed from everything that’s happened to him. There is risk involved in the job but as Bobby says, “you can’t just rush into any situation and assume it’s going to be okay” because he’s right. And this is especially hard to take right after Buck mentions so casually that the train car falling on him would be so much worse and heavier than the firetruck that crushed him a year prior.

During all of this, Bobby also finds out about Abby and there’s something about the frustrated way that Eddie growls out her name, his scowl and how he physically has to get away from Buck and we see that Eddie knows what Abby returning has meant for Buck and how hurt Buck is from seeing her and Eddie is the one person that knows what it’s like to see the past return so he knows how Buck must be feeling and he is 100% against Buck risking his life because of her. I also want to point out that Eddie gives Buck the time to tell Bobby that the fiance in question is Abby and that he only tells Bobby after Buck doesn’t say it and because he knows that it’s important information. But before that, Eddie was willing to keep that information to himself because he felt that Buck needed him to. So their friendship is yet again one of the best parts of this show.

It is Eddie that stops Buck and Bobby from continuing to argue the matter when they don’t have time so we don’t get to see how Buck convinces them to let him go out there and cut into the train car, but that’s what we see him do. And luckily, Buck manages to do it and rescue both Rummer and Sam. We watch both Abby and Bobby watch this all happen. And this would have been an excellent moment to also have an Abby and Bobby scene to add some depth into her return and maybe have her have another perspective on what she did to Buck. So this is where we suffer from having so much shoved into one episode.

Sam calls out to Buck to thank him as he’s being loaded up into the ambulance and Abby thanks him as well and when Sam hears his name, Sam is shocked to find out that this is Buck. And to me this is interesting because apparently Abby could talk about Buck with the new man in her life, but she couldn’t be bothered to call Buck up to apologize for the way she left him and never returned.

After Abby and Sam leave in the ambulance, we are left with Buck standing there and Eddie comes over to join him and it’s so clear that he’s worried. He asks Buck if he’s okay, but Buck doesn’t answer. Instead he asks what’s next which is Buck deciding to focus on the work instead of Abby and what just happened. He doesn’t want to deal with it yet, not when he still has work to do. Poor Buck. So he runs back to find something to do and Eddie follows. And one thing I wish we’d gotten is a moment for Eddie to talk to Buck about this and if not Eddie then Bobby. Maddie. Anyone.

In the meanwhile, Hen and Chim have their own rescue to conduct and we see Hen save a boy’s life and Chimney is reminded how amazing Hen is and I think all of this helps to start to let go of Hen and want her to succeed in her plans of going to med school. Since 3x17, he’s been struggling with it and we even see it earlier on when he doesn’t know how to encourage her. But by the end of the episode he’s helping her study. I do want to say that it is valid to want to keep growing and that I give props to Hen for wanting to be a doctor and that it can be an exciting direction for her character to take. I don’t think it will take her away from the show at all, or even from being a paramedic for a while. After all, can’t she do that and med school all at once? If anyone can, it’s Hen. I just hope it gives us interesting storylines.

When we next see Buck, he’s sitting on a bench overlooking LA and waiting for Abby and this scene is so heartbreaking. Abby approaches and it’s easy to tell that this isn’t easy for her. It’s even harder for Buck, though. This is closure that I think was absolutely needed, but I don’t know if it did enough for me. This is another place where I wished that we’d had a slightly longer scene to really show the closure effectively. Or that we had gotten to see Buck talk about it with someone else afterwards.

Abby watches Buck for a moment before he realizes she’s there and then she joins him and Buck asks about Sam because he’s Buck and of course he cares. Abby thanks him, but Buck says he was doing his job. Abby apologizes for how Buck found out about everything and the thing I loved about this moment was seeing Buck immediately turn to look at her taken aback that she’s apologizing and trying to explain herself for that instead of the thing that actually hurt Buck — how she left him. So it’s clear that Abby is well past that, that she might have even expected Buck to not be hung up on that anymore. She’s read his reaction to seeing her again completely wrong and I am glad that Buck says, “that’s what you’re apologizing for” and doesn’t just let her bypass the past like that.

The body language in this entire scene is just perfect. There’s awkwardness and a stiffness in Buck that we don’t usually see. He doesn’t quite look at Abby and instead he keeps looking away from her and looking down. This is Buck with less confidence than we ever really see him and it’s painful to watch. I’m also fascinated by the way it’s shot because it’s from behind them so that we are seeing their backs more often than not and profile views of their faces but not their front. Even when the scene first begins Buck is completely turned away from us.

Buck nervously asks when she knew that she was leaving him and the courage that it took Buck to ask that and not just bury that question — I am here for it. The fact that he even goes as far as to describe what the last time they saw each other was like and he’s pushing for an answer is exactly what I wanted for him. And Abby answers him and I like her answer a lot because it gives us a view into the complicated state of mind that she was in when she left.

I still hate how Abby picked up and left and then gave Buck no explanation and just stopped responding — there are no excuses for her not breaking up with him.

Abby explains that her identity was lost to her because she identified herself by everyone she was helping — her mother and the 9-1-1 calls and that she needed to leave to find herself again. I think all of this is valid and even Buck seems to understand this. I think it hits close to home for him not just because of his connection to Abby, but because Buck’s identity is his job. It’s something that Buck has said a lot this season and something that he came to realize even before Abby returned. And I think this is why it was important for Buck to already realize that with Red and to have had that convo with Maddie and know he isn’t alone.

Buck still presses on about how Abby didn’t come home after finding herself. Abby explains her fear of becoming that person again if she returned and that is a valid answer too. It still doesn’t make it okay that she didn’t try to reach out to Buck to break up properly. She says she missed him and wanted to see him but that doesn’t make her behavior towards Buck back then any better. She didn’t need to see him to write him a letter or to reach out in any way to end what they had. And it also annoyed me that somehow in her mind leaving Buck like she did wasn’t something she didn’t need to apologize upon seeing Buck again because hurting Buck didn’t affect her as long as she was able to move forward with her life which clearly she did.

Buck says, “I’m glad to see you happy. You deserve it” and because it’s Buck and he’s the biggest puppy in the world he means it. Of course he does, but I don’t think that Buck is any less hurt. I do think that knowing the reason she never came back helps and that it gives him answers to things he never got answers to, but Abby doesn’t know about Buck’s abandonment issues and she doesn’t know the damage she did on him and she doesn’t know that Buck can relate to how Abby felt back then. And I don’t think that any of this was about making Buck feel better about what happened with Abby. I think it was about him no longer having that question of “why” in his mind anymore.

I think they should have talked more and we should have gotten more from this scene but I also appreciate that it ends with them not quite friends again and that there is some closure there for Buck so that he can put Abby behind him officially and know that she’s somewhere happy.

The last few five minutes of the episode is May’s graduation party and everybody is there. We have a montage of the party with some photo booth moments. Lots of Buck and Eddie goofing around with and without Christopher and everyone else taking their turns too. It’s clear the cast had a blast filming those bits. One particularly good moment is Buck trusting his chest forward and hitting Eddie with one of the twenty or so bead necklaces he has around his neck. I wonder how intentional that was on the part of Oli.

We see Buck helping Christopher write a message for May and those two together will never not be cute. May asks Maddie if they can talk once Maddie asks about school which makes me curious about what May might be planning on studying (maybe nursing?). We also get a scene with Karen, Hen, and Michael discussing the firepit that the fireplace has now become and the shade that Karen throws at it with her quiet “No” when Hen asks if she sees the greatness...not that Hen isn’t judging either. Athena and Bobby get a moment and he comments on how she’ll be glad to be back at work in 30 days clearly not knowing that Athena doesn’t think she’ll be ready to go back at all so that opens up potential for interesting conflict regarding that even though I think that Bobby will stand by any of Athena’s decisions.

During the party montage we also see other things to give us some ideas about what else is going on with everyone’s lives. First is Chimney showing up to help Hen study at the firehouse which I loved because I think Hen needed him to give her his support. Later we see Hen doing another practice test at home with Karen and Denny grading her and she gets the scores that she’s been aiming for. Doctor Hen, here she comes.

We also see Michael sitting outside a restaurant waiting for his date and I am so happy for him. I want Michael dating again and that doctor seemed perfect for him. Marry the doctor, Michael. I also really appreciate how this parallels to the way S1 ended with Bobby and Athena meeting up for a date.

We see Christopher leaving for Summer camp and Eddie is watching him go (so I guess Christopher won out on going on that trip) and then we see Eddie look at a card that Christopher made him that reads: “You are going to have a great time, Love, Christopher”. This is an interesting scene to me because the note is cute and it’s obviously Christopher wanting to make his dad feel better about him going away for two weeks, but the camera work and the way that Eddie looks away from the bus as it leaves implies that Eddie was supposed to be looking at something at the end of the scene or someone...whatever way he was going to spend the two weeks without Christopher perhaps? (insert eyebrow wiggle). Instead he’s looking at nothing. Now we can’t be sure, but I can’t help but wonder if this was edited to not include someone that was supposed to be Eddie’s love interest. Ana. Otherwise, why shoot it that way? (And why introduce her to then not do anything with her in this season?) I guess Eddie could be looking at the bus driving away, but it’s just a little bit odd because while watching the episode the first time I expected her to be standing there and we probably will never know.

We get to see other moments of the party. Buck and Bobby get a small scene where Bobby asks how Buck is doing and Buck says he thinks he’s good and I think he means it and believes it. I don’t think that seeing Abby damaged anything for Buck, but I do think that it left him in a place to move on from the memory of her without any more questions. Buck is in a good place in a lot of ways by the end and we can only look forward to whatever may come next for him and I think he’s ready to that to be anything. This scene is also a call back to the last time we saw Buck and Bobby at Athena’s house when Buck wasn’t okay and instead collapsed due to the blood clots. But now Buck is actually okay.

This is all of course being shown while we get a voice over from Maddie. We’ve had a few signs up until now with the feeling tired earlier in the episode and then Chim asks her if she’s seen a doctor yet since she hasn’t been feeling well and Maddie immediately knows what’s up and rushes them out of Athena and Bobby’s house. Because she’s pregnant. And the scene when she comes out of the bathroom with one and then a second stick. I loved that moment so much because they have come to freaking far and that is where the episode ends.

I really appreciate shows that end their seasons on good notes and that leave a season in an uplifting way especially this one because of how long the hiatus looks to be due to real world problems. We also have a lot to look forward to of course. Athena’s storyline is bound to be complex and interesting, Hen and med school, something is up with May, we don’t know where Buck’s headspace when it comes to dating and such will be after that closure with Abby, Michael still doesn’t have a full clean bill of health but things are looking up for him, Maddie and Chim being pregnant, we don’t know what’s next for Christopher and Eddie, and we are of course still just looking a crumbs of Buddie and nothing concrete to go on but also nothing hugely negative to hold against the possibility of it happening so who knows. Overall, just a good and enjoyable season finale.

Other Meta/Reviews

#911 fox #911 meta #buddie #911 on fox #911 spoilers #meta #spoilers

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inmyarmswrappedin · 4 years

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DRUCK reactions - s4 ep3

Featuring: the clip that made me infinitely more interested in the season.

Oops, I forgot to link to the Nadia clip twitter thread. It’s there now!

(Thanks again to @wodrueckts! 💛)

CLIP 1: What is this, a tent for ants?

LISTEN. Tua is already the smallest in the girl squad, and that tent doesn’t even look like she can lay fully stretched out inside.

I was so disturbed by this that I looked up 1-person tents, and they don’t look that small! They are longer and thinner.

Amira’s mom comes outside and she’s also disturbed, but not by Amira using a toddler-sized tent, but Amira going camping at all. She’s like, we’re going to have a conversation about traveling while hijabi, but Amira isn’t in the mood.

And her mood is further spoiled because Sam texts her hoping that she can hook her up with Mohammed.

Amira’s mom brings her some pepper spray, and holy shit! Is that legal in Germany? (Answer: yes, it is, but it’s sold as “animal repellent.”)

I’ve traveled on my own before but I’ve always stayed in B&Bs, hostels or hotels. Ngl I wouldn’t even couchsurf at a stranger’s without some kind of protective device, like a portable door lock. I would never carry a weapon because you never know if you’re going to use it properly in the heat of the moment, but something like a personal alarm for runners would work in a camping setting. Take care of yourself if you’re traveling on your own!

CLIP 2: Lemonade pining

Jonas is going on about supporting sea rescue efforts of African migrants in the Mediterranean Sea, a big topic last year because of the Salvini administration (in Italy) approving a law to fine migrant rescue ships. Salvini has been ousted since, and sea rescue has disappeared from the news what with 2020 being a dumpster fire and all.

Essam, high on power, demands that his slave Amira makes him some lemonade, but I already described my issues with this storyline last week. After threatening Amira with the ever classic sibling-on-sibling physical violence, Amira relents.

Mohammed comes in as Amira is sulkily preparing some lemonade for Essam, and he makes a flirty comment about Amira’s ice cold stare again.

The sweet thing about Mohammed is that he fully admits that he finds Amira intimidating, like he totally recognizes that Amira can be unapproachable when she wants to (even though Amira M. is also one of the friendliest Sanas), but like… For one thing he doesn’t neg her about it. He’s playful about Amira being scary, but he’s not trying to bring her down. And for another, Mohammed tries to find ways in which he fits into Amira’s life or can help her in some way.

This will keep coming up with them, but it happens here when he thinks of a way to prank Essam and, as a result, cheer Amira up.

Peep at the interaction between Amira and Mohammed when they come out with the lemonade. They don’t exchange a word, but they’re such a team.

CLIP 3: Beware bicyclists

Amira, apparently still on a high since the lemonade prank, is strolling down the street singing to herself, as I believe most of us have done at some point.

Jonas asks for Amira’s help with his solidarity party, further characterizing Amira as the one they all go to for help.

Sam also texts Amira. She’s found Mohammed’s insta, which makes Amira’s face fall for a moment… Even though Mohammed keeps seeking Amira out, it feels like Sam might be able to hook up with him through sheer force of will? Or maybe Amira is kinda hoping Sam’s crush goes away, but it ain’t.

There’s something really Formal about that family photo that makes it lowkey funny, like I can imagine that pic being one Mohammed’s family sends to their relatives (caption about family and all), instead of one would post on instagram. Somehow, you can feel Mohammed’s latent dad energy just waiting to be discovered.

Even though this wasn’t the way Amira wanted to come across that pic, Mohammed just looks so damn fine that she can’t help but zoom in on his face, a Druck classic at this point.

And she’s so focused on the thirst that she almost gets run over by an islamophobic bicyclist, who thoroughly spoils her day.

This is such a Northern Europe thing btw. I think each one of my friends who has lived in the bike using part of Europe for any period of time has a story about a bicyclist yelling profanities at them. It’s like they’re saving the planet with their lack of gas use so they have to be extra dickish to compensate for their do gooding.

Amira also looks around as this happens, maybe to see if someone else witnessed what happened (for support?).

Anyway, Amira is so angry that she double texts Sam (or possibly just texts? I checked a couple times and it isn’t clear that she sent Sam the text where she translates the caption about family) to be careful with Mohammed as Arabs will fuck you over. She does a double take to herself, like she’s checking with herself that this was appropriate, and seems to decide it is.

I really dislike the context here. When this happened on Skam, it was part of a larger conversation between Sana and Noora where it was clear that Sana was repeating stereotypes in order to discourage Noora’s interest. And even in that conversation, what Sana said is that Muslim guys will sleep with white Norwegians because they put out, but in the end they marry Muslim girls. So rather than saying, he’s gonna fuck you over, Sana explains how. What Amira tells Sam is so lacking in context, so random as a response to Sam asking what the caption says, and like… You kinda have to have watched the Skam scene in order for Amira not to come across like a total dick here.

It also makes no sense because Sana knew that Noora had been hurt in the past by guys using her for sex and then discarding her, but a no strings attached hook up is exactly what Sam is after. So like… How would Mohammed wanting just sex and nothing else fuck Sam over anyway?

CLIP 4: Sam is interested in getting fucked (over)

Amira and Sam are doing boxing intervals, and Sam is a bit taken aback by how intense Amira is at something Sam is presumably doing just for fun.

Now imagine they’d actually written a scene around that difference between both girls, instead of a brief subtextual moment for us to read into.

Mohammed comes in during a pause, which Amira is using to get a bit more practice in whereas Sam is showing off to Kiki (sensing a theme they could’ve explored, here).

It looks like he’s going to go say hi to Amira, but Sam gets there first and starts flirting with him, hair twirling and all. Amira looks upset and goes back to boxing.

CLIP 5: Nadia! [crowd cheers]

At this point when the season was dropping, I was, to be completely honest, a little bored. Like the clips were cute and all, but I wasn’t excited. (Of course, you have to keep in mind that this was in comparison to my excitement levels during Matteo’s season, where so much as a glimpse of David made my synapses light up.)

I loved this clip and immediately posted a full on analysis on twitter (which you can read here if you’re interested, but I’ll be rehashing most of it in this post), and it still holds up in rewatch even though they didn’t mine the Nadia/Amira dynamic for all it was worth.

So we open on Nadia and Amira and they’re already looking tense as shit. It doesn’t help that Amira’s mom seems, like, almost relieved that Nadia hasn’t totally cut ties with Amira lmao. And she’s like, “omg you must have so much to talk about!” even though we just saw them looking quiet and uncomfortable.

Amira is all, “never thought you’d be the first one to marry,” and to Nadia’s credit, she takes this comment, which could read as shady, as a friendly observation. She talks a bit about how Ahmed is not like the other dicks, but Amira isn’t convinced, and now she’s definitely shading Nadia.

She also gets on Nadia’s case about going to Dubai for their honeymoon, but Nadia doesn’t defend herself and just looks sheepish.

Kiki comes in with some vegan cupcakes that she made to thank Amira for her help last episode, and you can see how Amira is much more at ease with Kiki. Tbf they did see each other last week, whereas we know Nadia has been out of the picture for a while. Anyway Kiki seems to feel the tension in the air, so she tries to excuse herself.

At this point, Nadia finds her voice to ask Kiki to stay. Is it because she thinks that with Kiki around conversation will flow more freely? Or maybe because she’s hoping that Amira’s irritation will be redirected to this Alman?

After Kiki admires the vegan spread Amira’s mom prepared, we find out that Nadia’s intention is the latter. She all but tells Kiki that Amira told her Kiki was a racist piece of shit. So this is how Nadia gains the upper hand after Amira’s earlier comments.

Amira looks alarmed, but Kiki is like pfff yeah, I was so into Alexander Humberbumber that I might have been the worst s1 Vilde until Amber made her appearance, but now I’m getting dicked down by a good man and I see Amira for the Muslim goddess she is (I’m paraphrasing but not that much!).

Amira looks really touched by Kiki not just 1. Not picking up Nadia’s intention, but also 2. Swiftly clearing the air and complimenting Amira in the process.

Kiki figures out that Nadia is the friend who’s getting married and declares her love for weddings of all kinds but especially Bollywood-style ones. Nadia looks really amused at this and looks at Amira like, “get a load of this girl!” Amira looks a bit embarrassed.

Sidenote to say Druck started building up to Kiki’s love of weddings last episode when she was paging through a wedding magazine spread. Like, they really put in more work into this Kiki/wedding storyline than most storylines last week.

And when Kiki asks if Nadia’s marriage was arranged, Nadia makes fun of Kiki to Amira. Like I would love to say that Nadia isn’t being mean to Kiki, but she is, and the point is to bring Amira down a notch. Now Amira really does look embarrassed, because in some way she’s supposed to be responsible for Kiki not saying something islamophobic. Kiki isn’t Amira’s responsibility, and I’m sure Nadia would agree in other circumstances, but… That’s what Amira gets for calling Nadia out for the Dubai honeymoon!

But as the conversation goes on, it also kind of seems like Nadia takes a liking to Kiki? (I’m mostly assuming because Nadia later invites Kiki to that pre-wedding event.) They talk a little bit about Nadia and Ahmed, and Kiki’s like, “I want to go to a Muslim wedding so fucking bad, Amira, please!” It’s like… At the moment Amira is the only single female friend Kiki has, but Kiki’s just like, can’t you just get married now though.

Amira’s like NO WEDDINGS, Australia first. And tension falls around the table again, because of course, Nadia didn’t know about this, but Kiki knew about it, so like… It’s just another way in which Amira has become a different person as far as Nadia is concerned.

Let us now talk about Kiki. Like I said, I really loved this clip. In general I love Skams clips where the dynamic feels so lived in and nuanced and multifaceted. This is the first time we see Nadia in the flesh, but we get so much information just from looks and tone of voice. Nadia’s actress and Tua El-Fawwal just rock this scene.

When it aired I took Kiki’s words at face value. Like, this was the way the writers had decided to resolve Kiki being a racist in earlier seasons, and I accepted it. It wasn’t until later that I read criticism of the scene and thought about it a bit more.

In Skam, Isak apologizes to Eva in three separate scenes. In s1, episode 10, she says to Eva, “I fucked up,” “[if I had known Iben was a psycho] then of course I wouldn’t have done it.” In episode 11, “I know it might be hard to believe, but I never wanted to hurt you. It just turned out that way. I’m sorry.” And in s3, “I just want to say sorry for that stuff last year. When I was ruining things for you and Jonas.” Like. You can say that Isak only said sorry because he got caught (though I personally believe he was genuine every time, if not entirely truthful), but the point is that Julie Andem thought it necessary, in order for Isak to remain a likable character, that he apologized three times.

The girl squad never apologized to Sana, they just showed up with the Los Losers van one day.

And while Druck also thought it was necessary for Matteo to be full of self-loathing over what he did to Hanna, they didn’t think Kiki needed to apologize on screen.

One of my least favorite Skams characters is Basile Savary, because he was a total creep to the point that, during s3, Skam France had to release a damage control text out of Lucas L’s POV because people were worried that he might have done something to Daphné while she was drunk. Basile was a creep who respected no boundaries (including dry humping Daphné against her will on social media, which played off as a joke!) until one day he wasn’t and became the perfect boyfriend. No arc where he learned to be a doper person, Skam France said, no we are not going to examine how nerds get away with being gross creeps.

And as much as I would like to say otherwise, Druck did the same with Kiki. Kiki was one of the most overtly racist Vildes in s1, was still making offensive comments about Amira’s and Sam’s hair in s2, and then… Season 4 rolls around and Kiki just says, “oh yeah I was a dick before but now I know Amira is a great Muslim.” Like… At least it didn’t happen from one day to the next, but no, there wasn’t an arc where Kiki is taken to task for her racism, nor a scene where Kiki apologizes to Amira.

This is an issue specifically because Amira’s season hinges on the Kiki/Amira friendship, like they pretty much got rid of most other conflicts or didn’t explore them fully, choosing instead to focus on this dynamic.

And I don’t think it was because Lea and Tua are such good friends irl (which they are! Lea even attended Tua’s engagement party! I love them!), because like, Tua is also good friends with Carl (Stefan) and we never got an Amira/Stefan scene, did we? I think it was simply that this season was too packed with people of color, and either funk or the writers needed a white character to anchor the season.

I still love Kiki and Amira obviously, I ship them (in fanon) and I love their scenes, because I love Lea and Tua and their friendship, and their characters. All I wanted from s4 of Skam was Vilde supporting Sana in the way Sana had supported Vilde for three seasons, and Druck gave me that. But here’s one thing where the writers dropped the ball, and it’s a massive mistake because the emotional core of the season is this friendship.

This also made me think about how the change of writers resulted in character arcs being dropped left and right. Now that two writing collectives are about to pick up Druck’s next gen, I think there’s an idea that the change in writers in the first four seasons wasn’t noticeable, but honestly… It kind of was. I would argue that a lot of the things that were set up in s1 and s2 got dropped and didn’t go anywhere. To wit:

Hanna’s arc in s1 is trashed in s4. Jonas is set up with a redemption arc in s2 that isn’t explored past that season. The Winterberg of s2 has nothing to do with the s4 ship. Kiki is still being racist in s2 and a shining example of allyship in s4. The little depth that Sam had in s1 and s2 gets dropped. Amira’s delivery job… Enough said. The one character whose character arc through the seasons was done justice I would argue is Matteo. He gets a shift in characterization after s1 to make the storyline with David make more sense (more on this if I ever write Matteo’s season meta), and retains that characterization to the end. Of the minor characters, Carlos and Abdi also come out well. David gets introduced in s3 when Q3 took over the writing, so he wasn’t affected.

Anyway, this clip totally revitalized the season.

CLIP 6: Amira praying, that’s it, that’s the clip

Mohammed is at the door waiting for Amira, and when Amira asks him if Sam is already there, he says he’s not here because of Sam. And I’m like, does he mean that literally? Like Amira could’ve assumed Sam invited him to this party, but Mohammed did meet the squads last episode. Maybe he asked Jonas if Amira was coming or got himself invited some other way.

Amira’s like sure, and gets inside. And Mohammed looks at her in such a way that even I need to fan myself a little tbh.

Hanna compliments David’s design, and Matteo’s like yeah, David is great, but I’d rather shit on Stefan. Idk, I feel like the Matteo in my mind would want to hype David up a little more before moving onto shitting on Stefan, but it’s a small quibble.

Amira goes to help Sam in the kitchen, and they both have some trouble making German food. I can’t tell if it’s because they’re generally bad at cooking or this is a commentary on white people’s palates. Or Abdi’s palate since he’s still going on about hollandaise sauce.

Oh, Sam explains that she told Mohammed about the party and he got on board. So he is there because of Sam, kinda.

They also talk about Mohammed having the coolest insta (pro: Mohammed has at least one topless pic, con: Mohammed has a pic wearing flip flops with socks), and how Abdi doesn’t compare because he doesn’t have an insta (yet). I mean… Damn, Sam. You can’t argue with logic like that.

But Sam calls Amira out on being weird lately. Again, I really wish this conversation didn’t rely so much on subtext, so it could be properly developed. Also, a new version of Snow’s Informer is playing in the background during this conversation and I can’t help but love the mood whiplash of it all.

Then something confusing happens when Jonas introduces the music act and says they come from Lebanon and traveled to Germany by train and then the lead singer says they’re from Berlin. They’re called Feedback and I tried googling them to find out what that’s all about, but with that name I didn’t get any results about them.

At least this is the kind of band that would play at an event like this, like they seem good enough to do a performance, but not big enough that there’s no believable way Jonas could book them.

Amira and Mohammed have a ~Moment~ when the audio switches to the version of Sand performed by Lary, and the sexual tension is so overwhelming for Amira that she immediately leaves to get some praying done, in the privacy of the venue’s backroom.

This scene is so iconic and beautiful. That shot of Amira being lit from above, looking up with her hands held before her? Talented, brilliant, incredible, amazing, show stopping, etc. The kind of sequence that needs both a Muslim performer and behind the scenes respect for said Muslim performer.

Amira overhears some argument as she’s folding the carpet she was using, and then she sees that Mohammed was blocking the door, so that she could pray in peace. Can we get a #notallmen here? Thanks. Again, Mohammed just finds little ways in which he can help and support Amira without being intrusive.

Mohammed compliments Amira’s friends for trying to help refugees (although sea rescue is more about migrants in general, rather than refugees). I think something that is lost in translation is that German is obviously not Mohammed’s first language, so I think this scene is more significant and subtext-laden for German speakers.

Amira is probably still smarting from her earlier run in with the racist biker, so she (who’s always said she wants to be Chancellor) says that Jonas will probably become Chancellor one day. Mohammed says no! Amira should be Chancellor, but Amira doesn’t think anyone wants that. 🙁 But Mohammed says he does, and he says “we” need someone who fights for “us” (which Amira probably interprets as “us Muslims,” but Mohammed might mean more like, “us refugees”).

Also, Mohammed thinks that Amira was trying to matchmake him with Sam, which we know it was more like the opposite, but it’s very in line for Mohammed to think Amira was trying to get rid of him.

Then Mohammed asks Amira for her phone and is all, “don’t you trust me?” and Amira’s like, “no,” which is hilarious. After a while, Amira wants her phone back and Mohammed notices Amira accidentally cut herself with the knife earlier. He puts a cute bandaid on it, and they have yet another Moment. They’re so into each other that Amira goes, “omg I love this song! Let’s go in!” But Mohammed is now sure his feelings are requited.

Social media

Kiki slept at the new apartment even though it’s falling apart, a sign that that she can’t stand being at her mom’s house. Later, Zoe texts her and Kiki says she’ll be available whenever Zoe needs her, but she also just… doesn’t want to live at her mom’s.

Matteo and David (but really just Lukas) attended the Berlin CSD (Pride) march.

Mia posts a pic of a cortado coffee, and I totally believe this was taken in Madrid. 👌

Carlos missed the Abiball because he failed his History resit, then he missed Jonas’ birthday because he was sick, and this week he’s visiting Brandenburg with Kiki, and what I’m getting from all this is that maybe Carlos’ actor had other commitments during this time lol.

Amira and Mohammed both post pics acknowledging their Moment under the lights/with the bandaid, showing Amira is getting more emotionally committed to this relationship.

Final thoughts

While I did have some issues with this episode, it was much more solid overall than episode 2. Nadia’s actress really delivered in her intro clip and I wish they’d explored that dynamic a bit more, but the character kind of takes a backseat after this. Although I don’t feel like Amira and Mohammed have a motif or object that they keep revisiting (like Jonas and Hanna with Hanna’s nose, or Mia and Alex with Hotel Hardenberg, or David and Matteo with the sandwiches*), I like their dynamic where Mohammed is supportive of Amira’s endeavors, which this episode solidifies. I also really love the significance of Amira getting to complete her prayer thanks to Mohammed. In Skam, Sana gets constantly interrupted until later in the season, where she gets to pray for all her friends.

[* I thought about this a bit more, and I think one motif Mohammed and Amira share is music, and singing to each other.]

I discussed this episode with Michi, and we came to the conclusion that the root conflict between Amira and Nadia is that Amira feels like that, to be with a man, is to compromise yourself and your principles. Nadia didn’t use to be the person who’d be the first to marry, or who’d go on a honeymoon to Dubai, and Amira sees that chance as Nadia losing sight of her ideals. But, in the last clip, Mohammed’s actions allow Amira to be who she fully is, and to finish her prayer. So the idea is planted, that Amira wouldn’t necessarily have to compromise her principles if she got into a relationship. Of course, Mohammed is probably one of the people who’d most compromise Amira’s ideals if she were to date him, but we’re not at that point yet.

#druck #about druck

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twdmusicboxmystery · 4 years

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Water Symbols and Ties Between Grady and Terminus: “A” Rewatch by @wdway

This is another re-watch from @wdway. She totally saves my butt on busy weeks when I don’t have time to write new theories, lol.

Here are her observations:

Hi ladies! I hope you're both doing well. I did a rewatch of s4e16 A, series number 51. I think it's important to mention that this episode was co-written by Scott Gimple and Angela Kang.

It starts out with a flashback of the prison and then we have Rick, Carl's and Michonne talking about how hungry they are. Later, they catch a rabbit in a snare. I thought about how much rabbits were featured in this back half of s4. It emphasized the size when Rick says, "A small one." Later, Michonne mentions again it was a small rabbit. This made me think of Lennie talking about the little ones.

I'll skip over the Claimers, other than the car scene where Daryl and Rick were talking. Daryl brings Rick a bottle of water. There's no label. It's just clear. It's actually a good size bottle and he sets it down in front of them. He brought water = Beth into that scene. They brought Beth into the Terminus part of the episode with the use of symbols that we were totally unaware of at the time. We gradually realized them as the seasons went on, the water being a huge symbol.

This is right after they jumped the Terminus fence and found this door propped open. Notice it says that it's a fire door, a way to escape. I think this can be considered a water symbol, just as a fire pull or ceiling sprinkler would be. I cropped this shot so that you could read the sign on the door a little easier. I do want to mention that Daryl is next to Rick and they are the only two in the shot.

Rick and co come out into a common area or plaza and are about to get a plate full of meat when Rick notices objects from people from the prison. He takes a guy to use as a shield against the sharpshooters.

I just mentioned how the door was the symbol of water, even though it was a door. Well, this is similar. That red object against the wall is a fire hose holder. I know this because I noticed it at the end of Us when Maggie and her group first came into Terminus. I noticed how it said fire hose. You can also see the fire hydrant next to it and if you look closely at the base, it's just a prop. There's a bottom section that should be buried or would be connected to some type of piping if it was real, so these are not objects that were already at this location. That means they're symbols.

Notice how this little corner is visible during the majority of this scene. We see it to the side or behind Rick almost the entire time. So, we have a fire hose and a fire hydrant. Both Beth symbols because they = water.

Look straight above the fire hose stand. There are 2 diamonds at the top of the building. I don't think they’re original to the building because of the shadowing around them. They appear to simply be tacked up, serving no particular purpose other than being diamond shaped, which = Beth.

Now look at the corner next to the hose and hydrant. There is a sign on the brick wall that I believe refers to the hose or hydron. It reads, “emergency water key, replace when used.” Just in case we didn't know this was a water reference, they wanted to make sure that they let us know, but I really like the fact that it's a water key.

I just needed to point out Daryl's Poncho which, ironically, he didn't notice, but Rick did.

The three small pictures underneath it are original sketches of the Native Americans’ Thunderbird.

Our little group starts to run for their lives. We follow them as they run past a boneyard, turn different corners, and then all of a sudden we see this shot.

Notice the fire hose stand, a tire, the yellow objects, the abandoned car with a shattered windshield and these stacked train cars. During this shot, we hear a female voice calling for help. Here's the funny thing: we never see our group running through or past this, so this is staged simply to show us symbols. In one of the five flashbacks was of Rick coming into the prison with Beth/Judith sitting on the steps, Patrick was sitting on the floor in front of Beth's cell, making something out of Legos. Carl is cleaning his gun. Rick stops to talk to Patrick and Patrick thanks Rick for picking up the Legos and he makes a comment about that they are for ages 4 through 12. I've always thought that was somewhat odd.

I just want to throw out an idea to you. This might actually be a comment about the story arc lasting from season 4 through season 12. I'm not talking about the series ending at 12, I'm simply thinking that this storyline, Rick, Beth, Daryl and Carol will continue through season 12.

@twdmusicboxmystery:

Love it all! I especially liked the fire and water stuff you pointed out at Terminus and how they brought Beth into it. The combination of water and key is especially interesting. You did spark one idea from me.

And I know I sound like a broken record on this point, but could Terminus have foreshadowed the helicopter group? (Yes, I know I’m saying this WAY too often, and all the things I point to and consider probably do NOT directly equate to the helicopter group, but think of it as a mindset shift on my part. I’m kind of considering all things in light of the helicopter group.)

I was thinking that Terminus was where all the train tracks met, right? And we’ve seen more than one representation of the train tracks representing character paths. So, it would have made more sense if all the characters had met up at Terminus. And most of them did. Beth was the exception. But if this was a foreshadow of all character paths converging at some future point, then that would make sense. Because Beth is the one that’s been gone for a long time, but since then, others, such as Heath and Rick, have also disappeared.

So, all paths need to converge at some point, and we believe that will happen in some way via the helicopter group. See why I’m thinking this? I think what you’ve found here backs this up.

Another insight? Remember in 5x09, we see some train tracks with the camera moving forward along them, and the tracks disappear into the woods up ahead. Maybe those tracks represent Beth’s path, and the fact that it’s going to disappear for a while. But it will reappear and meet up with other character paths at some future point.

Which also reminds me of a kind of famous passage in the book of Revelation about a woman who gives birth to a child but then goes into hiding in the woods. Most scholars interpret it (a total analogy) as that the true gospel Christ taught would go into hiding for a while (Dark Ages) but re-emerge later. I don’t know if this is what they were going for or even considering, but it’s what I thought of. Might be a similar template. Anyway, great rewatch. You always have eagle eyes.

@wdway:

I cannot tell you how much I agree with you. I definitely think Terminus was tied to the helicopter people or, more precisely, that Terminus is connected to Grady and it is Grady who had a connection with the helicopter or what the helicopter group was at the beginning of the turn. I believe it's around a year-and-a-half into the turn when Beth was brought there, and I believe they have evolved over the 10 years.

Dawn pretty well confirmed that there was a group coming soon, so it makes total sense that it could be a military-type organization. I'm going to show you some shots that will totally bring back what I've been obsessing about all the seasons.

Top one is Hansen, Dawn's Superior until he went crazy. I know the second shot is really dark. This is the best I can do with trying to lighten it. Do you remember this at the end of No Sanctuary, where they give a bit of a backstory of Terminus being taken over by this big guy who terrorized them? I believe this guy is Hanson.

Isn't it strange that they tell a backstory about a group that TF has taken down and that they go to a lot of effort to make this person hard to see?

That's right. I think the crazy guy from the train box car is none other than Hanson. If you look at Slabtown and Coda, this person is discussed several times. An awful lot of screen time is taken up with a story of how Hanson went rogue. What's the need of that when Grady is about to be left behind and, more importantly, why do we repeatedly see a picture of him?

The first picture I showed above has his badge next to it. Another question of why do we need to see that? I'm going to throw out a crazy idea. Why not, haha. In the very dark picture below, the guy seems to be wearing some kind of large belt buckle. I think it might be a gun or something stuck in the front of his pants, but I think there's a badge there.

I guess there's a definite yes to me, believing that all of this relates to the helicopter people. More importantly, the new series The World Beyond apparently did not want to start until after we see episode 16. I've said this before. I think at some point, not necessarily the first episode, but I think somewhere within it we will see Grady, pre-Beth.

@frangipanilove

I love you take on Hanson. I totally agree that they alluded to something that we haven’t quite seen yet, and I would love to see Grady tied to the helicopter ppl somehow. I have wondered a lot about the tattoo guy from Terminus and what the deal was with him, and your pics show a remarkable resemblance between Hanson and the crazy terminus dude.

@twdmusicboxmystery:

It would explain the defunct cop cars at Terminus, if Hansen left Grady and arrived in them. And as you’ve said, the weirdness of some of this that hasn’t yet been explained.

That’s it for today. Anybody have any thoughts on these insights?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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sol1056 · 5 years

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multipart ask on Keith

I would honestly love your thoughts on Keith’s character development, specifically him leaving for the Blades in S4. Personally I’ve always been on a fence with how they wrote Keith’s character after that. For one, he started as a lone wolf and I always thought they would subvert that along the way with more character interactions and team building episodes like in S1, but apparently S4 throws all of that away. I thought him forcibly being the leader of voltron would be a great opportunity for development but Shiro takes his place in the black lion and Keith just leaves.

It really didn't help with all the signs pointing as him as the true leader of voltron when he barely even interacted with the team personally (except for shiro) after that point. To top it all off his “maturation” was a two year time skip montage with his mom and he suddenly became level headed and ready to fly Black. So when he finally returns and become the leader of voltron it felt a bit underwhelming and hollow. To be honest I also find his interaction with the team afterwards kinda out of character [...]

I just wanted to hear from a writers perspective if Keith leaving was a good idea for his character in general. He had some really good scenes in his time with the Blades but i personally think in exchange it took way too much [away from] his development with the others. I also wonder if it's even possible [to execute well] leaving for the Blades and then becoming the leader of Voltron.

Here’s a general rule: avoid leaving any of your protagonists at a bus stop.

A few chapters is already pushing it; the equivalent of 1.5 seasons is out of the question for all but the most superlative of writers. I’ve met superlative, and believe me, no one on the VLD staff qualifies. If they did, they wouldn’t have been writing for VLD in the first place.

The start of S4 will forever baffle me. Had S3/S4 been broadcast as a complete season, I might’ve assumed there was a technical error, and would’ve tweeted at Netflix and not returned to watch until I got word this really was the midpoint episode. No warning, no foreshadowing, not even a peep out of Keith, and suddenly he’s working with the Blades.

In an ensemble cast, the point is that it’s an ensemble; you don’t forget one of your core cast at the bus stop while the story-bus trundles on. If Keith were meant as a protagonist, then sidelining him for 1.5 seasons is an even worse crime. If the intent of the story, thematically, is 'stronger together’, shoving one of them out of the picture is pretty much the antithesis.

This is not to say you can’t do it; in hindsight, I think the clone should’ve been shelved and the real Shiro returned at the end of S3/S4. But that comes with the assumption that a) the team would struggle a great deal more in his absence, b) prompting development that would create a new dynamic once Shiro returned, and c) that Shiro himself would change in some degree, from/during his absence: one that, by definition, that would need to be complete.

In other words, if you’re going to remove a protagonist, two things must happen. One, they must be removed, which Keith wasn’t. The story checks in on him irregularly, and each time, he's treading water while the story moves on. Two, the absence must become a driver: in a sense, the absence is a presence of what’s missing, and regaining the character must be paramount.

VLD put minor effort into recognizing the impact of Shiro’s absence, limited mostly to the torture-porn of watching Keith isolated in (and by) grief. It couldn’t even be bothered to do that much, when it was Keith’s turn to fall off the team. No one missed him, no one needed him. The result was a clear message there was nothing Keith brought to the team that couldn’t be done by someone else. There was no presence in his absence.

Consider the few scenes in S4-S6 with anything of Keith. His storyline did nothing to push the main story forward. In S4, the Blades are focused on tracking a new quintessence, a subplot that discovers nothing, provides no twists, and goes nowhere. In S5, despite Keith being with the Blades, the two groups have dropped communication to such degree that neither is aware of the other’s participation in the Kral Zera.

If you’re determined to leave a protagonist in another castle, for heaven’s sake, use that distance to allow them to continue to impact the main storyline. Make their absence into a working presence that can link the two groups; the complete radio silence just underlines how meaningless the story considers Keith, in the overall plot.

In that light, Kolivan’s left-field decision for Keith to extract Krolia feels like VLD was grasping at straws, trying to find something to occupy Keith. Worse, that mission contradicts S4: the quintessence is no longer blue, no longer notable for its energy levels, and no longer transported to secret bases in massive quantities by major warships. It’s back to the usual maroon, carried on small cargo ships in limited quantities, and now a dangerous substance with questionable side-effects.

In a nutshell, VLD left Keith mired in pointless actions with no bearing on the rest of the characters (hello, suicide attempt never mentioned again). Late S5, VLD realized it needed to get a move on, if Keith was to get an upgrade. So it took the easy way out: an overload of exposition flashbacks that neatly evaded any emotional beats between Keith and Krolia. VLD had no idea how to get Keith from point A to around point K, so it settled for just telling us Keith had grown up. On a space whale.

Had we been given a better reason (or any reason) for Keith joining the Blades, had we been given a hefty sub-plot for Keith that led him back to the team in an organic fashion (or at least dovetailed with the main throughline), had the story used those seasons to show us Keith learning with the Blades in a way he couldn’t or wouldn’t with the team... well, for one thing, it’d still contradict the ‘found family’ and ‘stronger together’ themes, since it’d be even more clear that Keith was stronger elsewhere.

But setting that aside, at the very least, Keith wouldn’t have returned feeling he’d gotten a personality transplant. We would’ve seen his progression, such that any given point along the way would’ve been recognizably Keith, even if the starting and ending points were almost a one-eighty. It’s called character development; most stories do it as a matter of course.

I’m left concluding that the creators genuinely don’t grasp that characters will change per their experiences. It’s a crucial element in storytelling, because characters are the core of any story. If you can’t figure out what would make a character choose A this time and B next time, you’re failing on one of the most fundamental aspects of characterization. In fact, you’re missing the entire point of a story: character choices are the plot.

I do have to take exception to ‘signs pointing to [Keith] as the true leader.’ I’ve posted before about the mentor trope, and how Shiro’s S1/S2 arc contradicts Keith as Black Paladin. I suggest you read those before coming at me with the assumption VLD did any of the work required to establish Keith's leadership as inevitable.

It’s possible to have someone strike out on their own, learn valuable lessons, and return grown-up and able to handle the situation they’d originally fled. It’d be a very different story, though, one that isn’t focused on a titular robot, but on a single protagonist’s journey. It’d also be a story that has nothing to do with ‘stronger together,’ as the movement away (to learn) and back (to reclaim) means the protagonist only became stronger when they weren’t with the rest.

Keith taking command of Black in S6 should feel like a victory in terms of his arc: where once he’d recoiled, now he steps forward. But since we never saw how or why his perspective changed about leadership, all it would’ve taken is a subtle shift in Yeun’s delivery and we could be talking instead about how Keith returned and was still in his ‘you want me to lead, this is how I lead’ pique.

Shiro’s return creates another turning point where the question would be logically raised, and it’s almost as though (once again) there’s an episode or two we didn’t get. It’d be reasonable for someone to raise the question of whether the team now swaps again. Yet no one does, and we’re supposed to expect Keith --- who waved the little ‘Shiro is Black’ banner far more and for far longer than any other character --- is now content to command Black, with no need to even broach the topic.

That’s a radically different perspective Keith shows in S7 onward, and it’s a problem created by the lack of development for Keith, in S4-S6. In the course of a single episode, we literally went from Keith being his slightly out-of-his-emotional-depth awkward self, to someone clear-eyed and commanding almost to the point of arrogance. It’s not helped when his original characterization returns for the duration of his fight with Shiro --- only to blip out again as soon as Keith returns to the team.

And forcing that abrupt shift on Keith’s part meant the rest of the story (and the characters) got shoved around into their respective places and out of shape, as well. Stories are made of characters, and characters are dominos. You knock one over, and it has a cascade effect. Changing Keith from the character we knew to someone else wearing his face could not happen in isolation, and every character around him suffered as well.

Like Shiro and Lance, Keith had major potential to be a groundbreaking character. He was introduced as the kind of independent, socially awkward, spitfire character usually pushed to the forefront in American media, yet S1/S2 gave him a solid place as Shiro’s greatest supporter. Keith had all the makings of a hero we rarely see: someone who truly believes the title of leader is beside the point, that the team is what matters.

I’m used to Gundam, which almost always strives for a resting place of five (or four) protagonists standing shoulder-to-shoulder. There might be one among their ranks who gets the central position, but the narrative is firmly consistent that should the team lose any one person, it would fall apart. There’s no need to ever tell us the team is ‘stronger together,’ we can see that lesson play out, over and over, whenever the team is divided, split up, or loses someone.

AtLA followed a similar pattern; by the end, it’s obvious the strengths each person brings to the final battle. There’s no question that every single one is crucial for victory; there’s no point where someone leaves and there’s not immediate and significant impact on the remaining characters’ successes. Sure, Sokka may not be able to bend like the rest of them, but without his brains, they’d be sunk. Katara, Toph, and Zuko might not be able to bend every element, but if any one of them isn’t there, the team is going down. Aang may command the central position, but he can’t do it all on his own.

While AtLA shone in having characters who visually broke the mold of our usual white-dominated, male-dominated American cartoons, it also broke away from the lead hero + band of intrepid (but far less capable) sidekicks. Like Gundam, it presented a group of characters who grew into a true team. The pictures might show Aang in the middle, but every one else contributes an equal amount, in their own way.

VLD had the makings in its first two seasons to go that route. But its EPs wanted dark and edgy, a perspective too cynical to embrace the optimism inherent in a team-based story. Sure, their deconstruction of VLD’s S1/S2 trope-subversions brought the story to a point where Keith was declared the definitive top guy, the true Black Paladin, head of the paladins.

Thing is, pushing Keith into that position required altering his personality beyond all recognition, destroying the team dynamic, and gutting any chance of recognizing the other characters as equally integral to team success. In effect, making Keith the de facto leader required destroying the team: and what’s the point of leadership, then?

#vld #voltron #characterization #character arcs #analysis #sol thinks about stuff

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iheartarrow · 6 years

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Random Arrow thoughts

Ok, I'm freaking out a little bit... Someone, pinch me... IS THIS REAL?! This episode of Arrow came straight out of fanfiction. It is too good to be true... yet it is... true... I am overwhelmed and befuddled and feel like a lost puppy right now. Because in this season (especially in 6x03 and6x04), Arrow is apparently, granting wishes and many fantasies of mine have become canon. No one has ever preparedme for this, this is why I'm freaking out, cuz what's next?!...

I know that the other shoe is gonna drop soon enough, and this bliss cannot last forever, that's just the way TVland works, and also, it's Arrow, our heroes can never be absolutely happy for too long, there has to be conflict to further the story along. And the formula is simple - the happier it is in the beginning, the worse it's gonna be later (before it gets better again). So I do know I have to prepare myself for the shit that's about to hit Olicity in a few episodes, probably after the crossover.

Anyhow, going back to 6x04, here are some of my thoughts during this episode..

- It should have been named "Let's get it on..." instead, LOL. How many times did they try to have desert and were interrupted?! Blue balls won't look good on Oliver, Arrow, have mercy!

- The episode opened with a "date", or more like a hookup, BS style. I gotta say, I liked the wig. Blonde Laurel looks like a bitch, brunette Laurel looks wickedly nefarious. I liked that, but why did she need a wig at all, this puzzled me? Or does she think, she looks more attractive to men with dark hair?! What was the purpose of that wig? Not to be recognized?! Well, then she kills people left and right with blond hair, so that's not it, right?!... Oh, I get it... KC wore the wig for the element of surprise, so the fanboys would guess her by her back and pee their pants happy that their beloved BS is back (or should I say, KC is back, cuz their fascination with her, that I will never understand, has become like a cult following). Anyways, this is done for one purpose alone. BS always likes to make a scene with her entrance (yes, she's a bit of an attention whore, didn't you know?!), this time they figured a wig will do the job for her as a "surprise" element. Whatever...

Arrow is already being redundant with BS, considering she's not even close to being the main villain, has no agency of her own and is just another mercenary for hire. As the guys from Slander Ent. pointed out, she's a glorified lackey. Arrow hyped KC's return to Arrow as a villain, so much, but the pay off doesn't match the hype so far. BS's storyline resembles that of LL already. Either give her some interesting storyline, or get rid of her like you did with Laurel. I liked BS at first, but the more I watch her (and as often as I watch her), the more she starts to suck, because there's no moving forward with her story, she becomes a stale character, just like LL had become, before they had to kill her off. Though, in this episode she didn't suck that much, and her fighting improved (though it was Katie's double who gets the credit, the fight scenes were so darkened out, so you cannot tell the double and the actual actor apart, but it was still too obvious Arrow, you cannot fool me). I feel like I have to make my peace with BS the way she is and not expect her to progress. She's here as an eye candy for the fanboys, a consolation prize anyways. But as she still is a small part of Arrow's overall story, I would expect the show to have learnt their mistakes with Laurel (and KC) from the first time around, and not repeat them with BS.

- Oliver and Felicity's date... I think now I know why Felicity calls BS "evil Laurel", because of her timing. Girl, couldn't you murder that poor sap some other time? William picked out the tie and wanted to go to dinner with Felicity, too... Awww, that's so adorable. And yep, the mini-Oliver totally has a crush on his father's girl. I love the relationship Arrow is building between the three of them! Oliver remembering that it's been three years since they had their first date... Squeee!!! "Don't jinx it!" LOL.

You know, I like that Oliver is still a bit nervous on their date. It's a good kind of nervous. He talks about not having been ready for their relationship then, not like he is now. This tells me that he knows, and knew back then too, that this is it, Felicity is "it" - the love of his life. So yeah, he is nervous in a "anticipating something wonderful in your life"-kind of way. Plus, that gorgeous woman is in front of him being all adorable and super sexy. But the status of their relationship is still unconfirmed. He looks at her for answer when the lady asks if they are back together. And Felicity got "the hint", called herself the mayor's girlfriend. It's for us to hear and for the Olicity haters. They are back together, so stop asking the stupid question, m'kay?! Get over it! There's also calmness to Oliver that I love. He's matured, more grounded. I cannot believe how much he's grown as a person. Adrian Chase was one heck of a therapist, LOL.

That nice lady was us, for sure. While she was fangirling over Olicity, I thought it would be funny if the news came out that Mayor Handsome and Miss Felicity Smoak are back together, with a poll attached to it, vote yes or no. LOL Star City ships Olicity. Also, why isn't there a man patting Oliver's shoulder and whispering "Good job on getting your girl back, son!"?!

- Oliver understanding how it was for Felicity when he had to bail on her and was "dangling maybies"... Now you know Oliver. It sucked! And I think he felt kind of alone and bored and useless, while his woman was neck deep in Arrow business and he just had to let her go, do her stuff. I think that is what got to Oliver the most - not being able to be a part of the thing that brought them together in the first place. That's how they met, how they've gotten closer and fell in love - because of Arrow business. And Oliver not only renounced that part of himself, he also renounced the part that allowed them to connect and was the major part of their relationship, it's basis. In S4 we saw how Felicity was struggling to live a "normal" life without Arrow business. She missed that part of her life, that's why they returned to Star City and stayed. Now it's Oliver's turn to be sidelined. He liked living in Ivy Town (on the surface), but after last year's crossover, Oliver realized that his life could be happy without being the Green Arrow, but it will never be full. This season he had to give up the hood again. Except now it's not because he wanted to, it was a sacrifice for the sake of his son. 6x04 showed how much Oliver actually misses being the GA, the action and being usefull, already!

Now, putting a mask on and chasing Felicity in the club, or helping Slade-cockblocker-Wilson... how is it different than being an active member of the team?! I don't get the logic of this. If you're out, you're out, Oliver. No exceptions. He could as well get killed on the mission with Slade, then little William will be the one saying "told you so!". Agrhhh...

- Those kisses... I love those smooches. Felicity, please kiss Oliver more like that! It's super adorable!

- I don't trust Alena. At all. Even after she was shot and was all cozy and friendly with Felicity, I still don't trust the girl. Look, she is responsible for an Argus agent being horribly murdered. And her reaction to that death was telling not nice things about the kind of person she is... Plus, she represents Felicity's past life, a rather dark past. I don't want a constant reminder of that on the show, in small doses Alena is ok, but not as a permanent fixture. Plus, this whole "breaking internet" thing was a set up by Cayden James, so it's obvious that either he gave Alena that shiner and told her to get Felicity involved, or he knew that if Alena smells trouble, she'd go to Felicity for help. And either way, she's a pawn in his game. I feel like if Alena isn't working for Cayden, and she actually is clean, she's still a redundant character, because she doesn't bring to the show any new skill or ability that isn't already an atribute of another character. So why keep her then?! "I thought you wanted to change the world, and look where you ended up..." I loved this burn! Why did Felicity apologize for telling the truth?! Also, this line reminded me of when paralyzed Felicity was hallucinating Goth Felicity. Goth Felicity said the exact same thing to her "you wanted to change the world, look where it got you..." This Alena character reminds me of that Goth Felicity, but not in a good way. I really hope she won't drag Felicity back to old hacktivist habits.

- Why doesn't KC wear her hair up in a ponytail more?! It actually looked nice, certainly nicer than her usual hair down over one shoulder. She calls herself "Dinah", so why does the team insist on calling her "evil Laurel"?! Call her evil Dinah then, she's here as a counterpart of the new BC anyhow, not of dead Laurel. This show has too many Dinahs with same abilities, it's ridiculous, Arrow!

- Felicity spent more than half of the episode in that gorgeous red dress. She looked so out of place in it in that club, and I loved it. It was very funny.

- Felicity should have asked for a backup while going to the club. Or at least telling her team where she's at. It was irresponsible. And later at Helix, almost got herself and Alena killed. Granted, she couldn't have known that it would be so dangerous, but still, she's going after someone who plans on killing hundreds of millions of ppl, gotta think smarter, girl. I get why she would feel guilty. Not only she let out Cayden James, but after Havenrock, if CJ manages to kill so many people, she would feel that it's on her, too.

- I loved Oliver's pep talk. Last episode it was with Diggle, now with Felicity. They both helped Oliver to become the GA. And all that effort is now for nothing, eh Oliver?! Where the hell did Felicity get the idea that Oliver was doing it all by himself?! He never did, well... he tried, but he never succeeded. He was killing ppl, until you and John set him straight (and Tommy's death, too), he was a crappy brother most of the time, super crappy CEO, failed as a boyfriend and a fiance, etc... So let's not pretend that Oliver wasn't a screw up just cuz he got his act together this season, okay Arrow?!

- Helix Dynamics... Nope, not liking it. I got an immediate recall of Fringe's Massive Dynamics,tbh. Plus the name Helix is rooted in Felicity's old life. Also, the name sounds rather ominous, like Kord Industries, where they make all kinds of dangerous stuff that bad guys later steal. I hope Felicity will rename the company, it doesn't roll off the tongue right.

- Michael freaking Emerson is amazing!!! I certainly got an evil Finch vibe from Cayden James. God, he's a cold motherfucker. I do not believe that he "changed" because of Argus keeping him locked in a shipping container. Argus locked him up for a reason, I wanna know what that reason is. He must have done something very very bad to earn such treatment. Lyla isn't Amanda Waller. I would love for papa Smoak to come back and have a hack off paired with Felicity vs CJ. It would be awesome. Also, I had an idea that Felicity will probably go to jail for hacking the vault's firewall (and probably, other crimes too), and Noah might take the fall and go to jail instead of her. It's the only way I see to redeem an absentee father like Noah.

Or Felicity will have to hide and lead a reclusive life until she figures out a way to clear her name with the FBI. Or she's gonna be recruited by the FBI. Either way, it would be interesting storyline and I wonder how it will affect her relationship with Oliver. I have a feeling Arrow might do something similar to what Smallville did with Chloe's character - her leaving the team and just disappearing. Felicity might be forced to do the same. And it won't be Arrow breaking Olicity up, just separating them for a while. Cuz it's Arrow and they can't let Olicity be happy on the background all the time...

If we are correct, then Olicity is gonna get married in the LOT crossover episode. If so, then won't marital privilege kick in then?! Oliver cannot testify against his wife, nor she against him...

- I really hate it when a side character is pointing out an obvious thing that all the fans have figured out long ago, yet the main character haven't got a clue about... I'm talking about Alena pointing out that Felicity should use her chip as an idea for helping people and get her company started. We've been cultivating this idea for 1.5 years, come on, Felicity...

- WTF is Arclight?! Damien's dome was called an Arc, right?! Maybe CJ was working for DD back then when the Arc was being built, and that's why Argus locked him up?! "Arclight" does sound like a cult thing, LOL. And Darkh's zombie population did look like cult followers...

- Loved all the grunting while Oliver dropped on the couch with hands full of Felicity!!! And the ass grabbing, and her hand sliding to his front... This new time slot is paying off bit by bit. Slade cockblocking them was not cool, Arrow!

- Did anyone else have a thought that Diggle's drugs might be provided by Cayden as well? He set up a trap for Felicity in today's episode, Diggle will probably become addicted to that drug, and will be off the team as well. Could be, Cayden will be picking all the team members one by one?

- The only thing, missing from this episode, was the repeat of the glorious line "It feels really good having you inside me...". It was such a right episode with a perfectly set up circumstances to bring that line back. Arrow, how could you miss this opportunity to remind us of such perfect comedic Olicity moment?

- Loved Oliver on the comms. He looked absolutely out of place behind Felicity's computers, but that was the point, and I loved it. The learning curve and the funny Oliver, loved every second of that scene.

This was a very good, solid episode. The reversal worked perfectly. One of my favorites of all Arrow episodes!! This season is gonna be so AWESOME!!!

@almondblossomme @hope-for-olicity @tdgal1 @taurusclh @geneshaven @eilowyn1 @felicitys @nalla-madness @coal000

#olicity #arrow 6x04 #random arrow thoughts #oliver queen #Felicity Smoak

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halekingsourwolf · 7 years

Note

As much as I love Cole, I disagree with basically 99.9% of that meta. I know the info came from others, but I feel a lot is reaching. 1) The producers, writers, JD were well aware of Sterek after seasons 1-2, not just on season 3. That's why Sterek barely interacted on season 3, the powers that be didn't want it to be canon - even Dyl said it was weird he didn't have scenes with TH. 2) TH left due to the lack of development of Derek and his/Dyl's pitching ideas for Sterek that never happened etc

(Same anon about the meta) 3) The ‘light’ theory is def reaching- the writers barely kept a bible of the show, forgetting about storylines and characters, moving on without any consideration of continuity- I really don’t think they’d have thought about 'light and its meaning’ for Sterek. 4) Poseygate was def a tool JD used to silence Sterek - it was never his intention to make it happen, his goal was to bait the audience - and he’s still doing it till the end

From X

Yeah, I have my doubts about the meta too. Not to say that I think it was dishonest, but I don’t follow colethewolf’s posts enough to have any sense of who their sources might be and where the info might have come from... and considering the general sloppiness of the show as well as the dismissive-verging-toward-cruel attitude of the showrunners/PR team toward Sterek, it’s hard to believe they had this subtle Sterek plan that just fell apart.

As for your first point, though, I’m not sure what you’re saying about the distinction between “after seasons 1-2, not just on season 3”? After season 2 is the same thing as s3? And that is when the dynamic/screentime between Stiles and Derek started shifting. Sterek were still interacting in pretty significant ways throughout 3A though (Stiles teasing Derek/fist scene, Stiles saving Derek in the elevator, Stiles & Derek shouting match in the hospital, Stiles and Derek chatting during Scott’s tattoo scene, Stiles begging Derek to believe him about Jennifer/his dad’s capture –– and, potentially, breaking her spell over him).

At the same time, though, 3A was the “no homo” introduction of female love interests for both of them. (The clear parallels between Jennifer & Stiles, and Cora & Derek, prove that the showrunners not only knew how popular Sterek was, but was trying to capitalize on that dynamic with straight ships.) This is notable because neither of them had actual love interests throughout the first two seasons (Stiles had his hopeless crush on someone who wasn’t interested, but that’s all) and as soon as the showrunners become aware of Sterek and its popularity, they were both suddenly set up with women.

*I do want to also note, though, that between s2 and 3A, the show moved from filming in Georgia to LA, where it probably came under heavier scrutiny from MTV. I couldn’t say how this impacted the show’s direction, but I think it’s important to keep in mind what else was going on at the time.

But, anyway, the lack of Sterek scenes didn’t particularly kick in until 3B. I don’t think anyone who wasn’t involved could tell you the reasons behind this. Maybe they were anti-Sterek from the start, but thought introducing a “female Derek” in the form of Cora would be enough to distract Sterek fans, and after that didn’t work they decided to cut out the Sterek interaction in 3B altogether. Maybe they thought it was harmless at first, and Jeff didn’t become bitter about its popularity until later. Maybe they actually were being tested out as love interests in 3A...? I guess I can’t say that’s not true, but considering everything going against it I’d need to see more receipts before I really took that idea seriously.

After all, like you said, Sterek continued to be teased and baited throughout the rest of the show, with no payoff. If Sterek was initially planned for but officially dropped by s4, then why would they still include scenes like the one in “Smoke & Mirrors”, or the Derek mentions tied directly to Stiles in 5A, or the way they’ve been linked together in all the promotional materials for 6B? All of those have the same feel as what we were given in 3B’s dream scene (when Sterek was, according to the meta, still the plan), which suggests to me that the scenes were either equally baity (most likely) or equally heading toward a Sterek endgame. If Sterek had actually been planned for but then dropped, then why would they still include romantic-seeming moments later on?

As for the “Sterek and light” theory... this is an interesting case because it’s honestly something I could see Jeff doing. The guy can’t keep a date or basic fact in his story to save his life, but he will occasionally drop hints for future plot points (ex: Chris mentioning Berserkers in 3B) or throw in subtle details just for some kind of coolness factor. I can 100% see Jeff not bothering to figure out where mystery voicemails on Allison’s phone came from or forgetting that Banshees can’t control printers, but making sure to announce to all of his directors that “Stiles needs to be in orange light because, ok??” The guy is not vaguely interested in continuity or things making sense, but he’s all about flash and vague exciting ideas and what looks cool, so I wouldn’t completely put it past him to intensely focus on light placement, while ignoring the plot.

Anyway, I know this reply is kind of a mess of contradicting ideas, but I just want to lay my feelings on each point here instead of starting with one argument and just laying out things that support it. All that I can really say is that I don’t know, ultimately, what was really going on. Cole’s post is an interesting theory though I do have concerns about several points in it, and the truth is we’re probably never going to know for sure what happened and who did, thought, or wanted what.

#Anonymous #ask hks #sterek #sterek fandom #sterek meta #kind of

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mittensmorgul · 7 years

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I'm new to SPN and a friend turned me onto your wonderful blog. We were talking about the early seasons and imagining what characters whom we meet later on in the series were doing in their lives at the same timeframe before we meet them. For example, after John died and went to Hell, at what point do you think Heaven jumpstarted their paradise plan? Meaning parallel to what early season episodes do you think Castiel's garrison got the orders to rescue Dean from Hell instead of John?

Hi there! And WHEEE! Welcome! Glad to have you here! :)

I was almost positive I’d made a post at some point in the past laying out the timeline for all this sort of “pre-Canon” stuff, but I think I’m just conflating maybe 15 or 20 different posts I’ve made over the years into one giant lumpy mountain of how I understand the events leading up to the series, and have never actually typed it out this way specifically, so I’m gonna go ahead and give it a shot.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but this is gonna be An Undertaking, so here goes:

I think Heaven “jumpstarted their Paradise plan” LONG before John died and went to hell in 1.22. I mean… LOOOOOOONG before…

Granted, that’s all established through revelations made in later seasons, but it all works retroactively. I mean, even the revelations made up through s12 about Mary, revelations we got during the MoC era in s9 and s10, revelations about Chuck and Amara in s11… they all serve to stretch the root causes of the entire Apocalypse back to the beginnings of Creation.

I guess that’s taking it back a little too far for the purposes of your question, but it does serve as a barometer for just how vast the scope of these events really is in-universe. Let me try and scale it back to the Apocalypse itself, since that’s specifically what you’re asking about here.

We learn in the early seasons that the demons “have plans” for Sam. Vague, ominous plans.

We learn in s3 that they had plans for Dean, as well… sending him to Hell. Throughout s4 we learn bits and pieces of what the demons’ larger plans entail– that they intend to break Lucifer out of his cage. We also begin to learn that while many angels believe they’re working to STOP Lucifer from getting free, other angels WANT Lucifer to be freed (Uriel, Zachariah, et. al.). Then at the end of s4, oopsie, Sam accidentally breaks Lucifer out while believing he was doing the one thing that would PREVENT Lucifer from breaking out…

Enter the True Vessel storyline… because this is where we begin to understand just how far back the scheming of Heaven and Hell goes. GENERATIONS back from Sam, Dean, and John Winchester.

From 5.01:

Zachariah: What, you thought you could actually kill Lucifer? You simpering wad of insecurity and self-loathing? No. You’re just a human, Dean. And not much of one.Dean: What do you mean, I’m the sword?Zachariah: You’re Michael’s weapon. Or, rather, his… receptacle.Dean: I’m a vessel?Zachariah: You’re the vessel. Michael’s vessel.Dean: How? Why—why me?Zachariah: Because you’re chosen! It’s a great honor, Dean.Dean: Oh, yeah. Yeah, life as an angel condom. That’s real fun. I think I’ll pass, thanks.

From 5.03:

Lucifer: Sam. My heart breaks for you. The weight on your shoulders, what you’ve done, what you still have to do. It is more than anyone could bear. If there was some other way… but there isn’t. I will never lie to you. I will never trick you. But you will say yes to me.|Sam: You’re wrong.Lucifer: I’m not. I think I know you better than you know yourself.Sam: Why me?Lucifer: Because it had to be you, Sam. It always had to be you.

They’re both “chosen.” Which leads one to believe that no matter what Alistair told Dean in 4.16 about John having been tortured and never breaking in Hell– that DEAN breaking in Hell was what “broke the first seal”– was ALWAYS the plan, from long before John sold his soul for Dean. It makes John’s deal just one more push for Dean to make the same deal for Sam at the end of s2.

Sort of reminiscent of what Zachariah told Adam in 5.18:

ZACHARIAH: Hey, don’t get me wrong. You’ve been a hell of a sport, really. Good stuff. But the thing is, you’re not so much the “chosen one” as you are…a clammy scrap of bait.ADAM: No…but what about the stuff that you said? I’m supposed to fight the devil.ZACHARIAH: Mmm, not so much. Hey, if it’s any consolation, you happen to be the illegitimate half-brother of the guy we do care about. That’s not bad, is it?ADAM: So you lied…about everything.ZACHARIAH: We didn’t lie. We just avoided certain truths to manipulate you.

(and can I tell you HOW USEFUL this one simple exchange is on a meta level? how many times the show has used this exact device in order to fill in blanks and expand past canon? because they use it A LOT)

So in this metaphor, John is in Adam’s position here… he was the clammy scrap of bait, the object lesson and role model for Dean (i.e. the guy they do care about).

We also get a good bit of exposition on this from Gabriel in 5.08:

GABRIEL: You do not know my family. What you guys call the apocalypse, I used to call Sunday dinner. That’s why there’s no stopping this, because this isn’t about a war. It’s about two brothers that loved each other and betrayed each other. You’d think you’d be able to relate.SAM: What are you talking about?GABRIEL: You sorry sons of bitches. Why do you think you two are the vessels? Think about it. Michael, the big brother, loyal to an absent father, and Lucifer, the little brother, rebellious of Daddy’s plan. You were born to this, boys. It’s your destiny! It was always you! As it is in heaven, so it must be on earth. One brother has to kill the other.DEAN: What the hell are you saying?GABRIEL: Why do you think I’ve always taken such an interest in you? Because from the moment Dad flipped on the lights around here, we knew it was all gonna end with you. Always.

They always knew it was gonna end with Sam and Dean Winchester.

Hence what the cupid told them in 5.14:

Cupid: Oh, mostly they don’t. You know, certain bloodlines, certain destinies. Oh, like yours.Sam: What?Cupid: Yeah, the union of John and Mary Winchester–Very big deal upstairs, top priority arrangement. Mm.Dean: Are you saying that you fixed-up our parents?Cupid: Well, not me, but… Yeah. Well, it wasn’t easy, either. Ooh, they couldn’t stand each other at first. But when we were done with them–Perfect couple.Dean: Perfect?Cupid: Yeah.Dean: They’re dead!Cupid: I’m sorry, but… the orders were very clear. You and Sam needed to be born. Your parents were just, uh…meant to be. A match made in Heaven- Heaven!

Sam and Dean needed to be born, their parents needed to meet and fall in love. How many generations of their family had been set up by cupids in order to bring about this “destiny?” Because Michael gives some pretty chilling context on that one in 5.13:

DEAN: How’d you get in my dad, anyway?MICHAEL: I told him I could save his wife, and he said yes.DEAN: I guess they oversold me being your one and only vessel.MICHAEL: You’re my true vessel but not my only one.DEAN: What is that supposed to mean?MICHAEL: It’s a bloodline.DEAN: A bloodline?MICHAEL: Stretching back to Cain and Abel. It’s in your blood, your father’s blood, your family’s blood.

and after Michael and Dean debate about the nature of Destiny versus Free Will (guess which side of the argument Dean defends? And which side Michael inflexibly sticks to? Yeah… there’s reasons Dean will never say yes to him…):

MICHAEL: Think of a million random acts of chance that let John and Mary be born, to meet, to fall in love, to have the two of you. Think of the million random choices that you make, and yet how each and every one of them brings you closer to your destiny. Do you know why that is? Because it’s not random. It’s not chance. It’s a plan that is playing itself out perfectly. Free will’s an illusion, Dean. That’s why you’re going to say yes.

(reminder: Dean never said yes. Granted he almost did a few times, but Cas stopped him once and Sam stopped him the other time, so… that’s where free will conquered destiny)

(second reminder, this is also the episode that coined the phrase “Team Free Will,” which has recently become so important again toward the end of s12…)

So, yeah. In the context of the apocalypse, John had been a pawn in the machinations of Heaven and Hell, just as much as Mary had been. Just as much as Sam and Dean and Cas were… but it was all because they were all playing their roles in the “destiny” set out for them at the beginning of creation.

So, yeah… I think the plans were in place long before John made that deal in 1.22. The angels never had a plan to rescue John. He may have been adjacent to the guy they needed to Do The Thing, but he was definitely not the guy they needed to Do The Thing. Just like Adam serving as Michael’s vessel in 5.18 (BAIT!), and just like John having served as Michael’s vessel in 5.13 (LURE!).

I made a much shorter post recently *searches own blog for 20 minutes getting detoured down four blind alleys and a rabbit hole* that sort of touches on this as well that might be of interest to this discussion:

http://mittensmorgul.tumblr.com/post/162876917140/so-do-you-think-that-the-demons-didnt-really-plan

I hope this helps! And I also feel like this post serves as an object lesson in understanding how all “retcons” aren’t terrible. Some retcons improve past canon to vast degrees. Because technically ALL of this is one huge retcon. And it’s beautiful! :P

ETA: This doesn’t even touch on the stuff we learned in s8, specifically 8.12 about Henry Winchester, how he disappeared from John’s life when he was a child, how Abaddon had nearly derailed these plans for the Apocalypse by messing with the fate of the True Vessels… how the Winchesters AND Campbells were always Men of Letters or Hunters, how they’d all had this long history of dealing with the supernatural, how they’d jumped through time on multiple occasions to interfere with the supernatural… I swear it all makes sense in my head, how this all connects up into a vast timeline stretching from Chuck locking Amara away at the beginning of creation, the choices made by Michael and Lucifer dealing with the earliest humans– and the choices made by Cain and Abel that set their family irrevocably on this path… How generations of their family had been manipulated or coerced into “playing their roles” to bring them all up to that moment when Dean broke the first seal in hell and Sam broke the last seal on Lucifer’s cage, and how they were then able to take that destiny and rip up the ending with the help of a fallen angel and an old drunk. :’) that’s honestly why I keep watching this show.

#the ghost of john winchester #spn 1.22 #spn 2.22 #spn 4.16 #spn 5.01 #spn 5.03 #spn 5.08 #spn 5.13 #spn 5.14 #spn 5.18 #Anonymous #spn timeline

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northbndtrain · 7 years

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Hey I'm a late Reven8e watcher and I love your Jack and real Amanda posts. Especially the season by season tracker of their development. I think the slow progression of their relationship and the trust they build over the course is something you don't see a lot on TV nowadays. You mind if I ask what do you think about the couple Amanda and Aidan? At the top of my head they don't seem like a bad couple but he always felt forced into the series to me. And it seemed their bond was never as deep

Hi! Thank you for the compliment, and I am so glad you enjoy the posts! I’m doing a re-watch right now and would like to eventually finally get the S3 and S4 “moments” lists done, too.

You’re absolutely right that the slow burn isn’t often done on TV anymore…hard to believe that up until the end of S4 Jack and Emily hadn’t done anything more than kiss a couple of times.

As frustrating as that sometimes was to watch in real time (and it was so, so frustrating, especially in Season 2, when they had very little interaction), in retrospect I can appreciate the fact that the writers took their time and made their case instead of rushing through the entire romance in the first season and then moving both on to new partners.

Plus, in the end, it worked out – I watched several shows around that time period that didn’t end with my favorite couple getting together, so to have Revenge really follow through with the promise they set up in the pilot four years earlier…that was a real gift.

Ah…Aiden…let me see…obviously, I’m not a fan, but that’s not just because I love Jack and Jack/Amanda. There were other problems with his character that I couldn’t get past.

(This is getting long, so under the cut it goes…)

1. AIDEN’S INTRODUCTION: You mention in your post that he felt forced into the series; that’s how it felt watching in real time, too. All during S1, there was never any mention of Aiden or even a reference made to Emily having had a serious love interest in the past, which makes sense because as far as we’re aware he was never part of creator Mike Kelley’s original vision for the show, but rather an addition that came after the show was renewed.

In a way, Aiden’s introduction was a symptom of the larger problem with S2 – that is, the writers/producers, high on the success of S1, decided over the hiatus to take their original concept, which was so beautiful in its simplicity (woman assumes a false identity to take down the people who betrayed her father), and twist it up into a bunch of unnecessary knots with the introduction of the Initiative, so that suddenly the villains weren’t just the Graysons and their employees, but also previously-unseen members of a larger global conspiracy involving all these other pointless baddies like Trask and Helen Crowley (how pointless? I had to look up both of their names because I couldn’t even remember them, even though they were all over Season 2).

The whole thing felt like sloppy miscalculation, and Aiden was right in the middle, as his tragic backstory involving his sister was tied into the whole Initiative conspiracy.

But what was also annoying was the way his relationship displaced Emily’s relationships with the other men in her life. The big story in S1 was the Jack/Emily/Daniel triangle, with Emily/Nolan’s friendship playing a prominent role as he was the only real partner she had in her revenge plots.

Enter Aiden, who took over Daniel’s place as Emily’s current lover, Jack’s place as her long-lost love interest from the past, and Nolan’s place as her partner-in-crime. It was just too much.

2. AIDEN’S LACK OF DEPTH/CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT: However, even though S2 became, in large part, The Aiden Show, he somehow remained underdeveloped as a character with no real life outside of what was going on in Emily’s life.

And I guess one could make the argument that, well, “it’s Emily’s show; of course she would have more development.” Except EVERY other contract character on the show, including all of the other men in Emily’s life – Jack, Daniel, and Nolan – had more of a life outside of her than Aiden did:

Jack: relationships with multiple on-screen family members, two love interests besides Emily (Fauxmanda and Margaux), a job running the Stowaway, a job as a cop, friendships with Nolan and Charlotte

Daniel: relationships with multiple on-screen family members, three love interests besides Emily (Ashley, Sara, and Margaux), a job at Grayson, a job at Margaux’s magazine

Nolan: multiple on-screen love interests, a career as a successful tech wizard, a hacking hobby, friendships with Jack, Declan, and Louise

As a result of their various storylines and relationships, the Jack, Daniel, and Nolan we saw in their final episodes are not the same exact men we met in the pilot – they’ve grown, been damaged, healed, and discovered things about themselves.

But all Aiden ever had was a little backstory (solely to explain how he came to meet Emily at Takeda’s), and a fling with Niko (in S3) that was so brief and pointless that I can’t even remember if it was just a flirtation or if they actually slept together. And I think in one episode we met his mom, maybe?

But that’s it. Everything else about the character was Emily-related – he was involved with the Graysons and Grayson Global because Emily was, he hated Jack because he was jealous of Jack/Emily, he hated Daniel because Daniel mistreated Emily, the only reason he interacted with Nolan was because Nolan was Emily’s BFF…. So, for someone like me who didn’t care for Aiden/Emily, there was even less reason to like his character since he almost didn’t exist outside of her anyway.

3. AIDEN’S CHARACTER FLAWS (OR, “AIDEN SUCKS”): But, you know, even all that above wouldn’t be enough to get me to hate Aiden. Find him annoying, sure. Roll my eyes at him, yes. Fast-forward his scenes, of course. Forget major details about his storyline, all the time.

In the end, it was his behavior and his treatment of the characters I did love that bothered me most of all. He lied to Emily whenever he felt it was in her best interest, and when he lectured or berated her it grated – Jack and Nolan lectured her, too, but the show often had them on a moral high ground that Aiden, as a violent student of revenge himself, could never claim. He also often made bad decisions only to shift the blame onto someone else.

But I found really difficult to get past was his treatment of Jack and Emily in S3 after he found out that Emily had told Jack her real identity. Everything that followed – Aiden lying to Conrad that Jack was the one who tried to kill him (Conrad), which put the lives of both Jack and baby Carl in danger; Aiden breaking into Jack’s home and manipulatively painting himself as the savior who only took the job as Corad’s hitman to give Jack time to leave town and stay away from Emily forever; Aiden having the unmitigated gall to get mad at Emily afterward; and then Aiden threatening Jack again a few episodes later – just had me thinking, “Yeah, Aiden’s the worst. THE WORST.”

And all because he couldn’t stand that Emily told Jack the truth that was her truth to tell to anyone she wanted to tell.

I mean, in a way, as a Jack/Emily fan, I appreciated it on a story level as evidence that Aiden was desperately insecure and jealous when it came to Jack and Emily’s relationship.

But it also just cemented my belief that there was never going to be anything root-worthy or sympathetic about him no matter how much the show tried to hold him up as one of the “good guys.”

4. EMILY/AIDEN’S SHALLOW RELATIONSHIP: You pointed out in your post that Emily and Aiden’s bond never seemed as deep. I agree with you completely. For years, one of the big criticisms of Jack/Emily was from those who said that Jack was in love with a little girl who no longer existed (a myth I debunked here), and those same fans often said in the same breath that Aiden loved the whole/real woman.

Then Barry Sloane (Aiden) came along and did a “Pop on the Pop” interview in S3 where, when asked if he wanted Aiden and Emily to end up together, he said,

I love working with Emily. I love the chemistry we have onscreen. I love those two characters together. I think Aiden understands her and he’s in love with one part of the woman she is. He doesn’t know Amanda Clarke. He fell in love with Emily Thorne. If she was to show up as that other part of herself, I don’t know if he’d love that other half of Emily.

(Unfortunately, I can’t link to the interview because the link I saved now directs to Amazon for some reason, so everyone reading this is going to have to take me at my word that I wouldn’t make up a quote about a show that was cancelled two years ago.)

I remember being kind of stunned by that quote when I read it, but only because it was so blunt – the sentiment didn’t surprise me because his words were backed up by what we’d seen on screen: there can be no depth to a relationship if one of the people involved only loves one part of the other person and has no interest in the rest, and Aiden clearly had no interest in Amanda Clarke (perhaps thinking, his mind warped by Takeda’s training, that Amanda didn’t exist anymore, or that she was never “real” the way Emily was “real”).

Ultimately, the most layered of Emily’s romances wasn’t her relationship with Aiden, because it wasn’t enough that they simply had a shared background in and driving need for revenge.

It was her relationship with Jack that was the most layered, and that was, interestingly enough, in large part because they spent so much of the series apart, so much of the series denying themselves the opportunity to be together. That time and that push and pull allowed them the space to see and accept ALL of each other. That slow-burn struggle made their eventual union feel earned, real, in a way that Emily/Aiden never did.

Thank you for the ask, and I am sorry it took so long to finish it!

#revenge #reven8e #emily thorne #amanda clarke #neverstoppedfeeling #jack porter #commentary #aiden mathis #jemily #jack and amanda #emily and aiden #northpost

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spotlightsaga · 7 years

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Kevin Cage of @spotlightsaga reviews... Orange is the New Black (S05E13) Storm-y Weather Airdate: June 9, 2017 @oitnb Ratings: @netflix original Score: 8/10 **********SPOILERS BELOW********** What now? Watching an OITNB finale is a bit like the next day after a great roll... You had a great time, and emotionally you're drained, there's a bit of magic still floating around in the air, you wonder will happen next... But in a way, you're kind of sad that it's all over. And of course, you're too stunned to do much of anything except furrow your brow like James Franco attempting to show any simple range of emotion beyond 'stoned'. Until next time, right? The best thing about the end of OITNB5 is the fact that we know it's going to come back for a 6th & 7th season, but with the massively radical shakeup we saw happen here in S5... There's never been a time in the series' history that we have been in such a place where we don't even have a slight inkling of an idea as to what is coming next. Over the course of 4 years and 5 seasons, we've seen characters come, go, pass, come back again, disappear into MAX, and some that have more of a final ending. It's safe to say that as tragic as the S5 ending was, as we saw best friends, lovers, and feelings as safe & simple as familiarity being separated and hauled off into different vans, going god knows where, at least we don't have to deal with another loss like the magnitude we dealt with at the end of S4. It took hours of sobbing and patting my back just to come back to reality and stop crying after that one. We have praised S5 for featuring new characters, as well old characters in a different way... As well as experimentation with new types of storytelling and even head-first dives into different genres just to give the series a fresh beat. It's hard to believe that all this happened in just a 3-Day timespan... Technically we've spent years with some of these women, but never has the series reached such heights in tension as it did here. One again, I feel it pertinent to mention that I'm just glad they decided to not put me in a situation where I could possibly cry like a baby for hours on end. I always knew that this riot would never end well for any of the women, and by E12 when everyone was having their personal revelations and epiphanies as to where they stood in life and with each other, I immediately sensed that they'd all be ripped apart from one another. No way things could be this harmonious with such an ugly consequences hanging above like dark pulpy rain clouds just waiting to burst over all of their heads. I'm not going to lie, there was a part of me that thought someone was going to die (as there usually is a major death in every season), but I was relieved when we were delivered the death of Piscatella instead of a beloved inmate. With Piscatella dead and Angie (Julie Lake) & Leanne (Emma Myles) redeeming their 'bad girl' ways... A majority of which was spent reeking havoc throughout Litchfield, torturing Pensatucky (Taryn Manning), putting on 'Litchfield's Got Talent', and raping CO Stratman (Evan Hall), all by wiping everyone's slate clean in a fire burning everyone's records... It looks like maybe Maria's (Jessica Pimentel) attempt at stealing all the hard work Gloria (Selenis Leyva) put in to moving the guards from 'Spanish Harlem' to 'Poo', by way of cutting a hole in the fence, actually payed off. The additional time Piscatella recommended will most likely never be added on to her sentence and she actually got to hold her baby. As mad as I was at Ruiz in that moment, I couldn't help but shed a tear or two. She made a snap decision, did what she had to do, and actually achieved something from it... Whether this will be only for a short term prize or even as something as big as a sentence reduction, we'll have to wait and see... But even though MCC isn't exactly the keepers of words or showers of good faith, Nita (Gita Reddy) did show that she was appreciate of Maria's sacrifice. That little hint of empathy that Nita let us all see had to count for something, at least I hope for Maria's sake that it does. Just as Pensatucky was once a fearless leader of many and fell to the 'Litchfield Pariah', Maria's decisions will land her in a similar path. I have absolutely zero doubts about that. And now... 'The 10 Count' and other wild inconsistencies of the 5th season of OITNB... Because as great as OITNB can be, it's never without its faults. There were powerul performances throughout this season... Uzo Adbua, Danielle Brooks, Selenis Leyva, Adrienne C Moore, Beth Dover, Miriam Morales, Rosal Colon, Dale Soules, Vicky Jeudy, Julie Lake & Emmy Myles... And some breakout performances by Francesca Curran, Daniella De Jesus, Asia Kate Dillon, and Kelly Karbacz... While Kimiko Glenn, Laura Gomez, Amanda Stephen, Kate Mulgrew, Natasha Lyonne, Lea DeLaria, Diane Guerrero and Jackie Cruz felt wildly under utilized and other extremely talented women were either lost in the shuffle or given small or subplots that won't see greatness born from them until further into the series. Alas, at least the seeds were planted. Even the incredibly talented Taryn Manning went massively underused, but it feels like that they are setting her up for a proper story arc in S6, so at least she'll have her moment soon. Ending her arc in S5 in the Guard House with Coates, snuggled up with her rapist under a blanket, makes for endless possibilities to spiral a psychologist's wet dream of a character study. Obviously the cast of OITNB is massive and not everyone can have large chunks of time devoted to complete character arcs that tie in heavily to the main narrative, but then again women like Uzo Aduba & Beth Dover were still able to take the time and scenes they were given and steal the spotlight, making the most of a short amount of time. It's up to these women, as character actresses, to really take it all the way... But it's also up the writers to give them something worthwhile to chew on and hang onto. And while there is plenty to discuss at the end of S5, not all of it is good. Like many other writers, bloggers, reviewers, and fans... We did the math and we are a bit confused on the '10 count' of missing ladies the men who violently and haphazardly stormed the women's prison turned temporary castle shouted out when attempting to tell Caputo and MCC the progress of the raid. Even with Linda being accounted for, we're not sure where that number came from... Just a small example of short-sighted missteps we occasionally see from an otherwise talented writing team. Also, as a Drug & Harm Reduction activist, I'm not sure why Cindy giving Suzanne a few Lithium pills (which I was under the impression she was prescribed anyway) would ever result in a coma like state needing as something as extreme as an EpiPen. It was just a short stick that wasn't thought through that was inserted into the finale for some additional drama and to get Taystee, Cindy and Suzanne in Frieda's abandoned pool turned bunker. It was sloppy and we at Spotlight Saga condemn any storylines that promote ignorance or false information about chemicals and drugs. Simply put, OITNB is better than that. However, it's hard to deny how beautiful that end result was... Seeing these women who once were so stuck in a pattern of self-segregation stand together, holding each other's hands with grace and dignity brings tears to my eyes as I merely picture the scene writing about it. That picture was worth far more than a thousand words, carried a beautiful message, but could have been achieved without compromising any artistic or factual integrity. I don't aim to cheapen the moment, it was beautiful, and I anxiously await the outcome with a heavy heart. Unfortunately I must steer the conversation back to inconsistencies because I truly believe that OITNB is also better than to not have MCC know that Linda from Purchasing was there at the time of the riots or had at least gone missing around the starting time of these riots. This is the type of woman who'd show up for work, even on the weekends. Maybe this was to give characters and fans satisfaction at the end when they all claimed to work for MCC to make Linda look crazy... But honestly, even though I understand their feelings of betrayal, you would think at least Boo would buy what she was selling. I did. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like Linda grew copious amounts during the short time that S5 took place and actually meant what she said when she promised she would do her part to incite change amongst the prison system. If they treated her right at the end, they could have had a great ally. Now... I'm thinking not so much. If I was Linda, I wouldn't be too pleased with any of those women. I feel like another potential beautiful moment, future or otherwise, was compromised for comedy and unnecessary comeuppance. If it's any consolation, Beth Dover, you were absolutely amazing this season and we have our eye on you and Danielle Brooks for any end of the year awards, such as one we've already locked in favor of Uzo Aduba's incredibly nuance performance throughout the entirety of S5. Regardless of any short sighted plot stick, surely the events of S5 will bring about change to more than just where inmates are shipped after the riot. While OITNB is fictional, New York law states that 'Riot in the First Degree' is a Class E Felony, which doesn't carry much weight, but will still ensure that most of these women, especially those that were public symbols during the riot, will have a few years tacked on to their sentence. I'm actually hoping the plan is to clear the prison, clean it, and then ship most of the important women and characters back to Litchfield to carry on their storylines in a similar fashion under new circumstances. Whatever happens, things are going to be different... But as the series ended on the women left inside Litchfield in the pool as the rest of the prison had been swept and cleared, fading to orange, leaving their fates hanging in the air... I think the main thing we are left hoping for is that none of our favorite women that remain in that lineup are hurt or killed and taken away from us forever. Overall, S5 was a mostly successful season of OITNB... But baby, this doesn't have anything on S4 and the epic rise and fall of one of the greatest characters of Litchfield Women's Prison... The woman whose demise started this whole thing... Poussey Washington. We miss you, Samira Wiley. You were so incredible, so inspirational, your unjust and untimely exit caused a series to be turned upside down on its head. Until S6, guys. You know we'll be there!

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timelessish · 7 years

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Thoughts about the S4 finale...

**spoilers below**

So, advance warning, I wrote this during commercial breaks and I don’t have the best short term memory so I’m sure a lot is out of order and I forgot stuff I meant to include while I was watching. Oh well. Onward!

I like seeing Red playing defense. Really interesting to see his empire fall apart and how he’s reacting.

I’m glad they brought back Mako Tanida! Awesome. Fascinating dynamic between Gale and Ressler now.

Brimley and the snake, Betty. Omg. I think I snorted.

Lol, Aram. His exercise outfit is adorkable. “I can feel the endorphins!” “…you worked out for 15 minutes. Walking on a treadmill.” Then his “see, that’s why you’re good for me” - yeah, that’s him trying to rationalize dating her. But I honestly do think she is kinda good for him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ at least she’s not like, a flat out murderer. *cough*

Also, he has no chill lmao. I’m amazed the Task Force didn’t immediately realize he was called in for a Grand Jury.

And THERE’S my beautiful Liz. She’s so poised in this scene! Love her so much. Very logical with what she’s saying, too, at least to me.

I’m really interested by this Stone place. Love the idea of a facility full of hidden top-secret government documents, and the chaos that a breach would create. Honestly, I’d love for it to pop back up at some point next season.

Cool motorcycle chase scene.

Dom! Thank you for reacting like a normal person at the news of Liz’s fake death.

The escape route via private island is pretty badass. I wonder if he’s been saving it for Liz all these years - I got a little bit of a “chosen one” vibe with the key - or if it’s just his ultimate contingency plan.

The theater is so dramatic. Gale and Kaplan teaming up… hm, I don’t like it.

I really love Red acknowledging the person that Liz is and has chosen to be, regardless of his presence in her life. That’s some good stuff right there.

Gale looks so different clean shaven, I didn’t recognize him at first.

So I’m guessing Coop’s running a DNA test on Red?

Red’s contempt when he says “Tom”, lol. That’s my constant mood.

Aw, Aram protecting the Task Force :’)

Oh snap, Janet turned him in?! I actually didn’t see that coming, but I did call that Samar would end up not telling Aram because she’s secretly a total softie and doesn’t want to hurt him. But more importantly, Aram has a pet turtle? That’s freaking adorable. And Samar remembered and fed it? So adorable.

See, it’s at times like these where I do like Saram. But the love triangle bugs me, as do Aram’s sort of double standards for Janet and Samar. Honestly, I just feel like Saram has been dragged out for far too long and the writers have never really known what they’re doing there.

Red and Ress working together!! Yes, finally!! These barrels are giving me a Debt Collector feel. HOLY SHIT, REVEN WRIGHT!

I’m loving the way everything is wrapping together. It’s definitely working for me. I also love how this finale is basically all or nothing. To paraphrase Liz from earlier, they all rise together, or fall together, and I’m digging that vibe.

Giving up Laurel… darn it. No me gusta. #JusticeForReven! And Ressler telling everyone about Tommy Markin… and Liz’s sad expression at that… I’m so emotional right now 😭

Laurel is hilarious, but I hate her. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay, I’m kind of in love with the idea of Laurel being a nefarious ally for the Task Force. I want that in season five.

What is Kaplan’s plan? I’m scared too, Liz!

WHAT. SHE SHOT BAZ. WHAT.

This bridge scene is intense. Strange impasse. “You need to kill me.” “I won’t.”

Aaaaand there Kaplan goes. Sadly fitting, going to the water the way Katarina supposedly did.

Oh God, Hitchen… something bad is going to happen here, I can feel it. And yep, there it is. There go my hopes and dreams for Laurel The Nefarious Ally in season 5. What do you wanna bet Ressler’s gonna bring in that cleaner guy? (I already forgot his name.)

But on another note, this struck me as a Keenler parallel because I find Keenler parallels in everything. Liz killing Connelly when he threatened her and the Task Force, Ress killing Hitchen (albeit unintentionally) when she’s manipulating him and the Task Force. I hope we get to see Ress talk to Liz about it next season!

A Saram kiss. Thank God they had a resolution for that this season. I would’ve been mad if there wasn’t. Now I just hope there’s not too much drama for them in s5. Also, Aram, buddy, my man, you better have broken up with Janet before you got smoochy with Samar. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

I’m really happy Liz did a paternity test back at the beginning. Smart cookie. But I’m also not surprised she destroyed it 😂 My first thought when Cooper brought her the report was “oh no, she’s going to rip it up and say she doesn’t want to know”, and then the audience would have to scream silently for a year.

And yeah, there’s cleaner guy. Called it.

I actually thought that was a nice Red/Liz scene. And the hug was really sweet. I’m sure some out there are heartbroken/pissed off at the father reveal, but personally, I’m not going to judge those who ship Lizzington.

Honestly, Red, what did you do to Katarina? Did you kill her?

Who’s getting the suitcase? Is it Gale?

HOLY SHIT IT’S TOM!!!!! I’M FREAKING OUT!!!!! AMAZING ENDING!!!!!

#TOMKEENFORVILLAIN2K17

So, I was all ready to be super happy about no Tom in the finale, but I’m even more happy with that ending. I’m definitely feeling like it’s a good set up to answer some unfinished questions about him and maybe get back that s1 vibe that I loved from him - is he bad? is he not? Here’s to hoping that things don’t just get glossed over next season and that his storyline is satisfactorily resolved!

I absolutely 100% loved 4C. It honestly blew me away and I am so hooked back into the show. 3B-4B had me continually losing interest, but 4C was just fantastic. More Ressler, better written Liz, understandable conflicts, and finally some answers (but of course, more questions)!

I also definitely have Keenler hope, and it makes my heart feel so full. But like, all things considered, I don’t need romance out of this show. Just keep the story interesting and consistent with understandable character development and I’ll watch.

Anyways, I’m basically in love with that finale and I definitely have more praise than criticism. I can’t believe we have to wait for next year to see what happens next! I might make a ‘loose ends’ post later because I’ve been thinking about strings left hanging from this season, but again, I was happy with what they fit into the finale. I might also do season five predictions at some point.

I really can’t wait for next season. I have a feeling it’s going to be good!

#the blacklist #reaction post #anti tom keen #i guess? lol. barely mentioned him.#mypost

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mrsbluebertgreggleson · 6 years

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“Bring ‘Em Back Alive”

-100 for Lucifer trying to get what is technically his little sister to play strip poker with him. What a classy characterization we have going here.

+10 because I like Sister Annaby's outfit.

+20 for when Lucifer flipped his eyes red and said "He's a PRIORITY" to try to spook Duma and she was... very much not intimidated. She's just like, "*sigh* *fake smile* Of course!" like he's her annoying boss. I love this angel. She'd better live.

+30 for the "You sure that's what this is about? You sure it's not... personal?" about AU Charlie because oh MAN I could feel the editors just itching to drop like 10 flashbacks in that pause. Thank you guys, for the restraint.

+5 for when Dean was getting jumped because I really wanted him to look up and see Ketch hiding behind a tree, just peering out at him and cocking his eyebrow. Dean should probably know the importance of being stealthy since he's been hunting since he was a teenager, but I'll let this one slide because Sam and Dean usually are pretty inelegant in their approach to hunting, lol.

-5 for Dean: "Where were you going to take me?" Slaver: "You think I'm going to tell you?" Dean: *shoots him right in the stinkin knee* Slaver: "AAAAH!! ... okay, all right." Like dude you are SO composed, you should be crying like a baby into that snow and blubbering out answers.

-20 because it’s weird to me that the writers explore the fallout of Gabriel’s torture trauma but not so much Sam and Dean’s. Angels canonically per S4 can’t be tortured but degraced ones can and degracing is canonically extremely painful as well, so Gabriel being traumatized I can believe, and I can headcanon an explanation on torture in Hell affecting the mind differently than torture on Earth to justify why Sam and Dean are even remotely functional, but the show itself doesn’t really touch on this and really, after all the angst and suffering the Winchesters have undergone, they really should be allowed to fall apart and build back up. It’d be cathartic for the audience. The fanficcers do a way better job exploring this and I really wish the show writers would show at least some instances of Sam and Dean dealing with their issues in the day-to-day and trying to handle it as best they can. Otherwise it’s just a Trauma Conga Line and it’s harder to care about bad things happening to them when we know it’s gonna be like water off a duck’s back and never really addressed/handled.

-20 So Gabriel faked his death well enough to fool Lucifer and also God? I'd think either one of them would be able to tell whether Lucifer was killing the real deal... I mean the fake Gabriel's death looked very permanent so maybe Gabriel created a lesser angel replica of himself to bite it so the light show would convince everyone, but... idk that explanation is not a great explanation to me, I would've preferred it if he'd really died and then been resurrected (maybe from Cass waking up, maybe somehow that woke up Gabriel too and in his newly resurrected state Gabriel got captured). I also just really like how the big explanation does not at all try to explain how presumably fully powered and crafty Gabriel got captured by Lucifer's weakest creation. I have to assume he found some spell similar to the one Crowley used on Lucifer, to enslave an archangel; it's just weird that they glossed over it so completely.

-5 Also dinging them for the “Hammer of the Gods” flashbacks. Just a little, because it has been eight seasons since it happened, but still, I count it as excessive flashbacking.

-5 because that Exorcist's girl “demon” voice was very unfitting and goofy.

-10 for "Your wound might be more serious than we thought." HE GOT SHOT, DUDE. Like TV is usually pretty flippant with how serious gunshot wounds are if they're not in the heart/head, but I'm pretty sure in real life Dean would be bleeding to death no matter where he got shot, lol. Let's assume they patched him up offscreen with some secret MoL magic trick that kept him from dying.

-5 because I'm surprised Dean doesn't fight Ketch more on the cure. I think Ketch is probably honest here, but Dean obviously didn't trust him a whole hell of a lot - and Ketch could easily be poisoning him or something. I guess he figures Ketch is his only shot, he's Ketch's ride home and route to possible redemption, and Sam and Cass would kill Ketch if he came back alone, but still, Dean doesn’t forgive easily, likes to be stubborn, and give people a hard time. It’s to advance the plot faster but still a little OOC that he didn’t at least give a token protest.

-10 because shouldn’t the BMoL already know about the Winchesters' connection to Charlie? Even though they were supposed to be all researched about the Winchesters and went through their bunker and belongings and never found anything out about her?

-30 because THERE'S the sad Dean-Charlie flashbacks. I’m taking back all my restraint points.

+5 Now I want Ketch to feel bad about killing Mick, because Mick was the only cool BMoL. Five points in remembrance, cheers, mate.

-10 because what the hell, Dean is all cool with Ketch now, even after everything? That's weird, he usually holds onto grudges like a mofo. Is it because Ketch has a thing for Mary and Dean wants someone for his mom to live with? I... wouldn't think Dean would want his mom to be with anyone other than his dad, and I especially wouldn't think Ketch. It's weird Dean is doing such a turn-around on this guy he was eager to kill. Between Ketch and Benny, I guess there's just something about washed out, dirty pocket universes that makes Dean click with the guy he's with.

-5 for Sam's Inconvenient Auto-Speakerphone Phone

-5 because Sam should’ve just fuckin hung up on Asmodeus after Asmodeus was like “DON’T YOU DAHR HANG UP”. That would've been such a power move. Just keep pissing off King Dedede while he's riled.

+10 because Sister Annaby is really pretty, dang. I do like that healer-for-pay business she set up in the last (?) episode she was in, it was a good idea for Earth-bound angels. I just wish she weren't stuck in a storyline with Lucifer because he's just... the worst (or that the had not named her so similarly to my poor lost Anna). If they'd used her in a separate role and spent more time on the healer-for-pay thing, for example, that could've been a cool nugget.

-5 Shouldn't the angels have known and called her by her real name instead of "Charlie Bradbury"?

-50 ABADDON SHOULD HAVE ATTACKED THE BUNKER, DAMN IT. She should've known where it was after her first episode, she wanted the things in it, and we got a demon break-in this episode. I’m still so mad that the writers in S8/S9 didn’t do this, and I’m taking it out on this episode! MANNN.

-30 lol Sam's like, "I'm warding the bunker!" You should always have the bunker warded, my dude! Otherwise you're sitting ducks staying in one unprotected spot.

+15 Sam and Cass were sitting close enough during Asmodeus's attack that for one second I really thought one of them would reach out and hold the other one's hand while they were dying. I don't know why I thought that because the writers would never in a million years do that, but it would've been touching (and also because it would be so funny to see the fandom explode).

+100 Don't have to listen to Asmodeus ever again, yeeeee. I'm just disappointed he didn't die via punch-to-the-heart so that his killer could pull their arm out, smack their lips, and say "Finger-lickin' good", the ultimate final and best joke.

-50 Dean's whole emotional, angry blowout at the end, Sam and Cass standing all silent and scared, and I'm just thinking of "The Thing" like, "If you cared so much, maybe you should've read more fucking books last episode to help your mom sooner, Dean." Like my dude, don’t get mad that your brother and friend restored Gabriel (he also killed Asmodeus, who would’ve killed them if Gabriel wasn’t all juiced up? and SINCE he was all juiced up, how were they supposed to stop him? I get Dean’s upset and frustrated because it seems they’re all out of options, but it really seems like he’s not getting that they’re only alive because of that, and lashing out at them because he’s frustrated, which is one of his worse character traits), another one will probably fall into your lap in like... four episodes? whenever the next big plot advancement needs to happen. It’s been awhile so I don’t remember if Lucifer got his archangel grace still or not, but I think he’s recharged by now, so they can just concentrate on tracking him down. Or hey, maybe convince Rowena to pop the Cage back open and snatch some of your Michael’s grace. I just wish character development meant addressing Dean’s anger issues so that Dean’s loved ones maybe don’t flinch and get scared whenever he gets mad. Not a good look for a heroic character.

To sum it up: Pure plot episode. We were teased the idea of Dean and Ketch in Apocalypse World saving Mary and Jack, but somehow ending up too far away (is the portal opening up in different spots going to come up again?) and saving AU Charlie instead. Dean bonding so quickly with Ketch seemed hinky considering their past; since it seems like Dean might have a snarky frenemyship with Ketch in the future like the one he had with Crowley, I guess Ketch is gonna die by the end of this season since Death Equals Redemption and we need a reason for Dean to look stoically sad. I think it would’ve been more fun to leave Dean trapped in Apocalypse World to get more POV on it for the audience, maybe see some other old characters, and reunite with Jack and Mary.

Meanwhile, Gabriel recovered enough to kill the Big Bad. Sleep well, sweet Prince. You were the only thing I was looking forward to going into the season and I had high hopes you’d be cool, and much like Dagon, you were not. Hopefully the next demon Big Bad is better - maybe a white-eyed demon, so we can find out what those were compared to Knights and Princes? ... but only if it doesn’t finish ruining the demon mythos for me. I’m surprised they repowered Gabriel so quickly since I thought they brought him back to be a fan favorite member of Team Free Will and that means he can’t be too powerful, but part of his appeal is that he can snap his fingers and do whatever zany thing he wants, which would be considerably harder to pull off if he were powerless. I’m still kinda surprised that they went the route of bringing him back the way they did, but until we see more of him, I’ll have to wait to see if it was worth it in terms of character development. Still kinda weird they never explained how Asmodeus got him.

Grade: -140 Kentucky Fried Demons in the Empty

#spn #spn live react #text post

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