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codenamesazanka · 2 hours

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I'm sorry, I'm fixated on The Walk because it has seemed like such a pivotal point in Shigaraki's life, and in the story. And then when it finally came time for Deku to save Shigaraki/Tenko... it gets relegated to two measly panels.

In Chapter 69, Shigaraki reveals his resentment of basically the entire world for being so carefree when they know, logically, someone is out there suffering - "someone, somewhere...is off killing people, for whatever reason... these fools keep smiling and laughing... living their lives."

Later, building on this idea, he realizes - and states out loud to Deku - that All Might annoys him because All Might has created a false sense of peace. Plus, All Might himself smiles so bright and cheerful, as if he's invincible, as if he can and has saved everyone: "The reason these fools can smile and live their lives... is cuz All Might's always got that grin on this face... Smiling wide, as if to say... There's no one he can't save!!"

Paired with a flashback of a severed hand, much like the ones Shigaraki wears, the implication is clear: Shigaraki resents how no one came to save him when he had a quirk accident that killed his dad/family; moreover, specifically, he seems to hate the bystander effect - that tragedy and suffering can happen but the people around such incidents can just not give a single crap. There are people in trouble, but the majority of the world doesn't bother to help, because they think Heroes will take care of it - All Might, especially, has made them feel like it's just not their problem.

This was before Shigaraki regained his memories, but his life since the amnesia hasn't really disproven any of that. He was picked up by AFO, a Villain, first of all; but he would later create the League, all members of who have clearly suffered from something and was never saved - not by Heroes, but also not by people who are supposed to protect them, like parents and family, and not by their fellow humans.

There's a reason Shigaraki targeted Bakugou to kidnap and recruit - he saw someone who seemed to be restricted and suppressed, literally bound and gagged on live television, a thing allowed and even awkwardly laughed at by the people around him. All Might was smiling as he presented a medal to the clearly upset boy. And so he thought Bakugou would understand.

When Shigaraki remembers his past, his memories also don't disprove the bystander effect and his hatred of it either. In the house his father built, everyone saw he was suffering, but did nothing. They never stepped in to stop Kotarou’s harsh punishments; in fact, they only ever come to him in the aftermath to try to coax him to stop crying - essentially telling Tenko that hey, they aren't going to stop the actual problem (Kotarou), but they will try to make Tenko accept it. As if it's not their problem, but rather Tenko's. Tenko says that all he needed was just to hear a word of encouragement from them, but they couldn't even give him that.

All this passivity in the family eventually leads to the moment when Kotarou slaps Tenko hard - twice! - and yet his mom and grandparents only stood by and watched. (Afterwards, they apparently also allowed Tenko to be forced to stay outside, crying, until nightfall.)

Then, of course, is The Walk.

Dozens of people saw a clearly-distressed lost child walk past them, and did nothing. Tenko at that moment is tragedy and suffering made manifest - he's a tiny little boy, alone, scared into silence, bloodstained, barefoot on concrete in a city. He's not hidden away or in some unknown corner of the shadowy edges of society - he's there in front of everyone, in broad daylight.

And no one bothers to give a crap. Or, even if they do, briefly feeling troubled at the sight, they look away. The one lady who did try to help ends up deciding this was above her pay grade and explicitly states never mind, Heroes will take care of it. Everyone at the scene feels it's not their problem.

(And the thing is - Tenko knew he deserved to be saved. There's one line that always stuck out to me: "I thought maybe the reason no one helped me was because I was being punished for killing my family."

Tenko knew he did something bad, he was feeling immense guilt, so much that he was rendered mute, but he wasn't expecting to be punished then and there - he hadn't written himself off. Not being helped wasn't a foregone conclusion yet. He killed his family, but he wanted help - he knew he should be helped. Basically, it wasn't immediately, "I did something bad, so of course a Hero won't be here, now I need to run away and hide" - it was "[I did something bad, but] somebody... anybody, just me tell [what to do]. Someone help me." The idea that he deserved being ignored because of what he did seemed to have only come afterwards.

This is why, I believe, in Chapter 365, Inner Tenko thought, "I wasn't broken back then... but it's not like anybody reached out a helping hand to me. It's not like anybody even looked at me."

Two of the flashbacks are scenes from after he did a Bad Thing - Hana running away after he killed their dog; the old lady turning away, after he wandered into the city post-massacre. He did a Bad Thing, but "I wasn't broken back then..."

There's also the flashbacks of the family pre-massacre. Scenes of his grandparents trying to pacify him, of his mom looking sad, of Kotarou being angry with him - all likely because Tenko was in trouble for talking about Heroes again, which was against the household rules, but wasn't/shouldn't be a strike against him. He was restricted and suppressed and couldn't fit in with the family, but "I wasn't broken back then..."

All those people in his family, on the streets - none of them ever helped.)

The Walk is the ultimate embodiment of his long and ongoing issue of Heroes and regular people doing shit nothing. It's the exact complaint Shigaraki was giving in Chapter 69. It's completely damning.

This is what Shigaraki means when he says "everything I've witnessed..." in Jaku in Chapter 281 (and again in Chapter 379). He's seen it all - how there's all this pain, but Heroes have not done anything about it. And because Heroes are pillars of the community - because Heroes are civil servants, essentially representative of the governing system - the regular masses of citizens both follow their example while also becoming complacent. Now they just smile and laugh, living their lives, as if Heroes will and should take care of everything and all will be and is fine.

Early on, Shigaraki put most of the blame on Heroes and so focused most of his plots on them - the USJ attack and Camp Raid were on Hero students - but he very much disliked the civilians and their bystander apathy too, and was already starting to make plans to destroy the system that enabled that. It’s remembering the Shimura Household Dysfunction and The Walk - the lack of help, the rejection, all civilians that passed him by - that really solidifies his hatred and conviction, causing him to fully embrace destruction - his attacks post MVA doesn't target just Heroes, but everything and basically everyone.

AND YET. Barely any of this shows up when Deku comes to save Tenko in Chapter 418.

In fact, it starts in Chapter 417, when Nana and Deku intervene in Kotarou's slapping of Tenko. The rest of the family is noticeably absent. The only thing Deku and Nana needed to do was stop Kotarou. That Tenko also had an issue with how the family kept taking Kotarou's side and abiding by the abuse? Not relevant anymore, I guess.

(Also, Tenko actually does believe he's broken, been broken from the start for being born with Decay. He even wonders why Deku would come help him. Somehow "I wasn't broken back then... but it's not like anyone even looked at me," has become "I'm broken and who could ever look at me given the way I am?" Note additionally that Deku doesn't actually discourage this notion. He only says "Well, I'm here to take your hand and give you peace.")

Meanwhile, The Walk is no longer part of Tenko's origin - or at least, not significant enough to warrant a Memory Environment. Yes, it's true that stopping and saving Tenko at The Massacre means Tenko wouldn't go on to walk The Walk, and I suppose you can argue that technically the issue of bystander effect has been solved since someone did finally show up to help. Deku didn't have to help, but he did. He made it his problem to figure out why Shigaraki seemed so sad inside, and he reached out a hand.

But like. The Walk is still a thing that happened? It's still a problem? All those people still ignored a five year old? Deku saving Tenko doesn't mean the old lady suddenly gained a backbone and conscience to not walk away. In fact, it just makes it even more 'not her problem' because after all, a Hero did show up! She did exactly what she was supposed to do - nothing.

It’s just not addressed. To quote @stillness-in-green, “Shigaraki gets way more dangerous to the common civilian after he gets his memories back, and it's a real crock that the story doesn't address that specific turn and what causes it, instead retrenching to "The Slap Bad; AFO Bad.””

I don't like Deku much, and I probably would've rolled my eyes at it, but I did really think Deku would get to be at the memory of The Walk, and he was see all these civilians ignoring Tenko, and he would be gutted and horrified, and maybe he’ll hear what the old lady say about “the police or a hero or somebody will help” as she leaves, and he’ll think something like ‘that's right, a Hero should be helping… but that doesn't mean all you civilians can't even ask if Tenko’s okay and walk him to a police box’, and he would chase after Tenko to save him, and maybe even say something like ‘What you said at Jaku about civilians being coddled. I know it too well that they didn’t want to get dirty. They're trying to support Heroes better now, but they should also support each other. We should all help each other. Let’s change things. I’m here now.’ Because it would make sense and provide a conclusion to this whole thing???

But no. Shigaraki wants to destroy because Tenko was sad he was born with an evil quirk and because of that he doesn't know how to love himself and so the source of the problem ultimately lies with himself. Deku is here to validate his existence so Tenko can feel better that someone accepts him so he can learn to love himself and stop all this nonsense. Except wait it turns out AFO gave him Decay and also turns out AFO manipulated his life since even before his conception so who knows what's even real anymore. Maybe the people on the streets really wanted to help Tenko but AFO made a gas leak fill the city with Asshole Gas and so no one helped and Shigaraki has been operating under a gaslit delusion for the past 15 years and his grievance against bystander apathy is completely invalid. Bummer.

The series hasn't ended yet, and it's possible that the Walk will still be addressed. I've seen it theorized that civilians will show up to help stop AFO and finally save Shigaraki/Tenko like he had wanted all those people on the streets to do all those years ago.

However, without the problem explicitly stated or even known - Deku never sees the family passivity, and he seems to have only caught glimpses of The Walk (and of course has no reaction/introspection/opinion on it) - this feels unlikely. Plus, the recent chapter hasn't filled me with hope or inspiration. The best the civilian could do was offer an All Might t-shirt. That's not exactly "I won't assume a Hero will take care of it and I'll take action myself"; it's more "I'll trust in Heroes even more to take care of the problem." I know that's not exactly fair, in that fighting AFO and helping a lost child are problems of very different magnitudes. But the fact the story hasn't given the civilians an opportunity to ‘redeem’ themselves, so to speak, in the latter case kinda proves my point, I think.

So far, the story seems to think that Shigaraki's issue with passivity and complacency is actually irrelevant. Or has been solved by Deku. Who took on the immense task of saving Shigaraki because he possesses a drive to save others that eclipses all common understanding. So Deku is special, and thank god someone so special existed to save Shigaraki. Because otherwise, Shigaraki wouldn't have been saved. Due to the majority of people being passive and complacent. Which isn't a thing that needs to be dealt with.

(Or, I guess you can say that it was All For One who planted the hatred of bystander effect into Shigaraki/Tenko (if he didn't somehow manipulate the people on the streets (and the Shimura family, previously) into ignoring Tenko), since he did say “Everyone just passed by, pretending not to see, thinking some Hero would save the day. Who decided to make the world this way?” when he first found Tenko. So even that hatred and grudge isn't ‘true’ and we can dismiss it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

#nalslastworkingbraincell #very long rant #sorry

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codenamesazanka · 5 hours

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codenamesazanka · 13 hours

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maybe the ‘Bystanders All Watched a Bloody and Injured Five-Year-Old Walk Past Them And Did Nothing’ thing is not addressed, and will never be addressed because that’s just how things are supposed to be. That’s just normal human nature and people just have to live with it.

Have this passage from famous Japanese novelist Natsume Sōseki’s book Sanshiro - from more than 100 years ago.

The farther they walked, the more people they encountered. Soon they came across a lost child, a little girl of perhaps seven.

She swept aimlessly back and forth beneath the sleeves of the throng. “Grandma, Grandma,” she called out in tears. Everyone who saw her seemed touched. A few stopped to look. “The poor little thing,”someone said. But no one took her in hand. The little girl attracted the attention and sympathy of everyone around her, but still she had to keep crying loudly in search of her grandmother. It was a strange phenomenon.

“She’s in the wrong place, too, I suppose,” Nonomiya said, keeping his eye on the shifting shadow of the little girl.

“Everyone figures a policeman is bound to take care of her sooner or later, so they avoid the responsibility,” Professor Hirota explained.

“If she comes near me, I’ll take her to the police box,” Yoshiko said.

“So why don’t you just go get her and take her over?” her brother suggested.

“I don’t want to go chasing after her.”

“Why not?”

“I don’t know—there are so many people here. I don’t have to be the one.”

“That’s it,” Hirota said, “avoiding the responsibility.”

“She’s in the wrong place after all,” Nonomiya said. The two men laughed.

At the top of Dangozaka, they found a swarm of people by the police box. The lost child was finally in the hands of the police.

“You can relax now,” Mineko turned and said to Yoshiko.

“Oh, I’m so glad.”

#credit to a friend who discovering this passage and sharing it with me #nalslastworkingbraincell #if it’s just normal human nature and nothing can ever change it #Tenko/Shigaraki has no right to be mad at it #he can be upset but he has to forgive for it #and depend on Heroes #smh

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codenamesazanka · 1 day

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Chapter 420, Deku says, "AFO got totally swallowed up. He really was gone..."

Chapter 421, AFO says, "Originally, as a part of Tomura…I probably would have have been destroyed along with him."

It seems that Shigaraki had indeed successfully suppressed and dominated AFO. AFO became 'his' and as good as gone.

Deku is now facing off against Shigaraki Tomura. He declares that he can't ignore the crying child inside of Shigaraki.

Shigaraki dismisses that, says he's moved past it. Refuses to trauma dump for Deku. Insists he wants to destroy, for himself, for his League, because the world is full of rejection.

Deku doesn't buy it, never responds to any of that. He knows Shigaraki is actually just hurt child, and declares Shigaraki is full of repression and until that 'lid' of repression shatters to pieces, he won't stop smashing away at it.

Vestiges support Deku in this. They come up with a plan to literally destroy themselves striking at Shigaraki's traumatic core so that Deku can give "Shigaraki's soul a direct beating" (Kudou, Chapter 413)/"Smash Tenko's Spirit" (Deku, Chapter 420) - so Deku can access the trauma dump Shigaraki was refusing to share.

Yoichi kamikazes himself breaking into Shigaraki's traumatic core.

Was there any other way to get through to Shigaraki? Who knows. Probably not. He didn't readily accept the 'sad little boy' line so Deku had to beat the truth out of him.

With Yoichi destroyed, AFO wakes up from an incredibly powerful and acute sense of loss.

Deku simultaneously also soothes Shigaraki's strong hatred and anger and guilt. This is conveniently because the true thing that Shigaraki hated was himself and his quirk, and not like. Hero Society. Which isn't actually full of rejection because Deku showed up and held his hands, and also because AFO gaslit his entire life.

This seems to have upset the balance and allowed AFO to repossess Shigaraki.

Shigaraki now knows the truth behind his falsehood of a life, literally shatters from it; AFO has regained control and seeks world domination; Deku is gravely injured and has lost OFA.

But his allies have showed up to support him.

#unfair and biased and all that #nalslastworkingbraincell

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codenamesazanka · 1 day

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Sero’s speech was so weird… I really wish it had a build-up at some point between the two just asking why Shoto was overreacting in the SF, what made him so angry. But they barely interact and it feels like also Sero talks about “tragedy” Shoto suffered as if it didn’t have a specific face and name - his abuser.

Excellent point. What happened to Shouto is a tragedy - but it wasn’t a random unlucky thing, it enacted with full purpose and intention by Endeavor. His dad abused him. Describing it as a “sad thing [that] would be better not to have” is inane.

and with Sero explicitly acknowledging he’s not talking about his own experiences, and barely interacting with Shouto, here, it feels like Shouto ends up being a rhetorical point to be used against AFO.

cursory chapter thoughts:

What was this chapter

So... was Deku/AFO's attack supposed to destroy 'Shigaraki Tomura' (and leave 'Shimura Tenko' intact)? I guess that makes sense, since he didn't care about Shigaraki Tomura, only about The Crying Child. What gets messy is whether it made clear in the text that Shigaraki and Tenko are separate people? Deku treated it as if they were; Shigaraki insisted they weren't (BUT he's brainwashed/traumatized/wrong, so what does he know 🤡); the narrative seems to imply that they're still the same people but perhaps Tenko is more 'core' - At the end of 418, Tenko is the one saying 'No' to playing heroes, growing into Shigaraki/his adult self to say 'Villains need a Hero of their own', which seems to be his True Dream, implying that Tenko and Shigaraki do at least share that, they are at least partly the same person... (But then 419 said his entire life was manufactured, so.) Shigaraki Tomura/Shimura Tenko is whoever Deku decides he is, I guess.

Sero's speech feels condescending and dismissive. I totally get him, that he's a normal guy in midst of all these tragedies and trauma victims, he can't quite relate to them, his motivation is purely 'Doing well at school' and 'preparing for my future career' and that's perfectly fine! Tragedy doesn't make people stronger; there's only just suffering. The issue is that the disconnect between Normal Guy Sero and Trash Rat Baby AFO (and Abused Eugenics Baby Todorokis, Hate Crime Child Victim Hetermorphs, Quirk Conversation Therapy Toga) is pretty big. And so the speech comes off seeming to say 'that sounds like a you problem'. Or, even if he later says 'bad stuff shouldn't happen', that's so broad and vague it's meaningless, especially since the 'bad stuff' that's happening is mostly from... the system he's fighting to protect. Bad stuff happens to people and that should stop. How to stop it? Just don't be unlucky I guess?

I can't remember well, but isn't the majority of the damage Deku suffers pretty much self-inflicted? He was away for most of the Sky Coffin battle. Then he faced off only Shigaraki, and that consisted mostly of breaking Shigaraki's wrist in a hold, and dodging because he couldn't let Shigaraki touch him - though Shigaraki does get a few hits in, including tossing him across the country to Fuji. But the main injuries I remember getting prominence and significance is from overusing OFA - muscles tearing, unable to breathe, etc.

The Shirt is so awful. That's the extent of civilian help. Supporting Heroes by buying their exclusive merchandise and believing in The Symbol. And Deku puts value in that, given that he recognizes the fucking shirt. Yeah, yeah, it's symbol of their trust in him, their spirit and wishing energy is in that shirt, whatever. It's a terrible gesture and symbol to use, imo.

I like that AFO is sad.

#class1akids #reply #spoilers #bnha spoilers #nalslastworkingbraincell

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codenamesazanka · 1 day

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I think your wrong about what you said that sero said is dismissive to afo I think it’s made to point a flaw that afo has whitch is his refusal to change. He assumes that his mindset is the correct one not considering there are other possibilities and others he doesn’t since he never really saw people as any more than toys hence he cannot see why his mindset could be wrong and this is seen best in his treatment of tomura he projects the most himself on and doesn’t consider his will or feelings.

This is fair, in that 'Tragedy makes you stronger' is just AFO's belief, which Sero refutes; and AFO is wrong too, imo.

I am however confused how you got from Point A "AFO says suffering makes you stronger and Sero says eh, don't think that's right" to Point B "AFO refuses to change/thinks he's correct". The latter is something we can describe AFO as, evident from his actions, and can apply to this statement; but Sero's response isn't about that. He says 'that's just your belief; I know it to be wrong/different due to my own experiences', but there's nothing about that that points out the flaw of specifically 'refusal to change'.

Plus, i'm more criticizing the response that start and stops at 'tragedy should not happen'. No shit sherlock. Is he, a hero, going to do anything about it? Sero acknowledges that tragedies is a thing that exists, and it's better that they be done away with. So... what created the tragedy in the first place? What can be done about it?

Sero specifically invokes the tragedy of Shouto, so he's not just referring to AFO, he's now talking in suffering that people in general undergo - and specifically about one that was created by a combination of trauma, beliefs in quirk eugenics, the hero ranking system and mindset, domestic violence, a traditional social class system. One created by how quirk society has been structured.

But the way Sero talks about tragedy, it feels like it has nothing to do with anyone. Shouto suffered; Sero didn't really. It's just a thing that happens. Shouto was sad, so it seems to Sero that sad things are better not to have. That's nice and true and all, but... that's it? Not even a statement of "As a hero, I'll make sure tragedies won't happen again"? It's a useless response.

cursory chapter thoughts:

What was this chapter

I like that AFO is sad.

#spoilers #bnha spoilers #ask #answered #anon #anonymous #asked #nalslastworkingbraincell

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codenamesazanka · 1 day

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I hate that it’s “I engineered your entire life,” because, thinking back on AfO’s backstory, it’s much more fascinating if he was genuinely like, “I will give this Shimura child a better childhood than I had.”

Which he… technically succeeded at, (shelter and food security, for one,) except his definition of a ‘better childhood’ still includes things like “wandering the streets alone murdering anyone who tries to push you around,” and “Obviously he’ll want his family’s severed hands as keepsakes. After all, I’ve kept my brother’s hand with me for a century now after I accidentally killed him!”

Just like. Tenko vomiting on the floor as a trauma response after killing somebody, and AfO as the clueless-> meme guy thinking “I’m an incredible mentor. So much better than any hero would be.” Tomura showing up at the USJ a half-feral manchild, because he was primarily raised by a half-feral man.

Right??? AFO is a Bad Dad, but that's because he doesn't know any better. Also he refuses to do any better. Hell, in the most recent chapter, he says, 'Now I understand... It is tragedy that makes people stronger' and that's his parenting. 'How to make my successor stronger? Throw tragedies at him. It worked for me!'

Yeah, the idea that AFO wasn't particularly trying to torture a Shimura child because it was a Shimura child or that he's Evil(TM), but in trying to craft his 'Next Me', he did give Tomura a better life in that Tomura got food and shelter and learned how to read at age 5 instead of age 9 or whatever... but AFO also recreated most of the trauma from his own childhood onto Tomura, because that's how things should be? Fascinating. And fun.

AFO: "Tomura. It is now your 16th birthday. It's time for you to go halfway across the world to murder a celebrity you're jealous of. Let's make a vacation out of this! I am a great dad."

Thanks for the ask!

#anon #anonymous #asked #answered #ask #bnha spoilers #spoilers #nalslastworkingbraincell

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codenamesazanka · 1 day

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do you think there's a chance that shigaraki is actually dead-dead

It does seem like there's a chance that Shigaraki is dead-dead. Gone-gone.

If you mean the entity known has 'Shigaraki Tomura', the gloomy villain guy we followed since the beginning of the manga:

Deku in the last chapter seemed pretty clear that his intention was to 'smash Tenko's spirit and break both of them' - assuming that he was trying to destroy 'Shigaraki Tomura'?

And now AFO in this new chapter says that "Originally, as a part of Tomura…I probably would have have been destroyed along with him" and it doesn't seem like he's talking about the Reveal->Destroy, he's likely talking about Deku's smashing Tenko's Spirit.

Then of course, whatever was left was disintegrated by the Reveal.

So it seems for all intents and purposes, 'Shigaraki Tomura', the identity that AFO crafted, is gone?

Maybe.

If you mean Shigaraki/Tenko, I also think there's a chance he's gone - it is indeed a possibility. But I think there's a higher chance he's not gone and we're just saving for him to show back up/be saved. It would be tragic for Shigaraki/Tenko to just die like that, and just now in this chapter the story is saying 'tragedies shouldn't happen', so.

Thanks for the ask! Sorry for the not-really-answer!

#just ride the wave #only thing we can do at this point #anon #anonymous #spoilers #bnha spoilers #nalslastworkingbraincell

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codenamesazanka · 1 day

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cursory chapter thoughts:

What was this chapter

I like that AFO is sad.

#nalslastworkingbraincell #spoilers #bnha spoilers

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