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crossdressingdeath · 4 years

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I find it really strange how LXC has more haters than JC. Overall I do think he’s pretty well liked, but I have seen way more criticism for him than for JC, which is weird. Because I feel like you can find legitimate explanations for a lot of LXC’s choices, whereas the same can’t be said for JC. Let’s look at LXC’s supposed crimes. Trusting JGY? Well, I don’t think we can complain about that, and then at the same time 1/10

breath turn around and support LWJ for always standing up for WWX because...look, I get that it's not exactly the same thing. And it's REALLY not the same thing because it ultimately turned out that JGY couldn't be trusted, but the thing is, LXC genuinely didn't know that at the time! This guy was a very close friend of his! He believed in him! JGY had saved his life in the past! And just like LWJ always supports his loved ones without a second thought, LXC is doing the same thing. Because, 2/10

in this eyes, JGY hasn't really given him any reason not to trust him. The guy is a very good manipulator, and when you are that close to someone, you WANT to believe the best in them. LXC is not an idiot, he is the victim of someone else's manipulations, and it's not like pretty much everyone in the cultivation world suspected anything either. The only one who was actively trying to take down JGY was NHS, who KNEW that the man had murdered his brother. I have no doubt that if LXC had 3/10

been aware of it, he would never have supported him. Not only that - as soon as there is any doubt about JGY's intentions, the man takes an objective stance! He agrees to listen to the evidence! He isn't just blindly denying what's in front of him, regardless of what that would mean for his own feelings; but of course he isn't going to blindly denounce JGY with no proof because this is his closest friend. And while he obviously trusts his brother, he also knows that LWJ's priority is 4/10

WWX, who LXC really doesn't have any reason to trust at that point? We know WWX, LWJ knows WWX, but LXC and him really haven't had that many interactions, on top of his current reputation in the cultivation world. The fact that LXC is so willing to help and hide WWX, despite knowing the dangers it might cause for his sect, and all because he trusts his brother is...a very big thing. It's more than JC would EVER do for WWX. I've also seen criticism for LWJ's punishment, which I honestly 5/10

don't understand because a) the Lan clan also has elders which probably had a big say in the punishment too, and b) LWJ DID commit a crime! It wasn't just him protecting WWX, it was him injuring dozens of members of the Lan sect! Sure, we know why he did it, but just how would it look to the rest of the sect if LXC had just excused that behaviour? Or to the rest of the world? What would it do to his brother's place in the sect if he hadn't been punished for it? I really don't think LWJ 6/10

could have gotten out of that without some form of punishment, and if LXC even had the sole say over it after all (which I highly doubt he would have with no repercussions) that was probably the best alternative to banishment, or perhaps even worse. I've seen criticism (and this is so, so strange) over him blindly accepting the story about his mother, which is so stupid because...LWJ also accepted it, LXC has no way of finding out anything about his mother, and WE as readers know nothing 7/10

about his mother! For all we know, she COULD have been in the wrong, or his parents could have had a completely different relationship from how other people perceive it; we just don't know enough to make a judgement. And then finally, I see people criticizing his behaviour towards WWX. Okay, I kind of do find this annoying too - I was frustrated when he essentially blamed WWX for LWJ's actions, because honestly, LWJ is a grown man who can make his own decisions, but...I also kind of 8/10

understand this. Because this is his BROTHER, and of course he's going to be protective or resentful when he's hurt, it's just a natural reaction to have. It's only natural, and people can't be objective all the time. And also, I think a lot of his annoyance came from him thinking that WWX knew about his brother's feelings, and was essentially mocking them by pretending to flirt with him, and honestly, from an outsiders perspective it would kind of look like that. Despite his own feelings, 9/10

He still supports LWJ in all his decisions though. It’s just so weird that there is so much criticism for LXX, when you can understand his supposed mistakes a lot more than someone like JC. But then, JC pretty much gets no criticism from the fandom. I’ve actually seen people who can’t stand LXC, but then support JC at the same time, and that is so, so weird. 10/10

The thing is, LXC has just as much reason to trust JGY as LWJ does to trust WWX. We as readers know that WWX is in the right, but LWJ, in-universe, doesn’t. He himself admits that he believes and wants to help WWX because he loves him, not because he’s certain he’s in the right. There’s actually a lot less evidence against JGY than there is against WWX for a lot of the story! Evidence that LXC as an in-universe character with his level of knowledge would have access to, I mean. LXC himself points this out; LWJ believes JGY has done these terrible things because WWX said so, not because they have physical proof; at this point in the story it very much is WWX’s word against JGY’s, so doesn’t LXC have the right to give JGY the benefit of the doubt and trust him the way LWJ trusts WWX? And even saying that, the moment he has reason to distrust JGY he revokes his access to the Cloud Recesses and is clearly upset at the idea that he could have misjudged the situation so badly. And remember, JGY’s reputation was impeccable before WWX accused him (origins aside); LXC had no reason to doubt him, but he still did, because WWX said he should and LWJ trusted WWX’s judgement. Can you imagine any other character in this novel immediately searching for evidence and acting as soon as that evidence was uncovered even when that evidence proved their long-held beliefs wrong?

And re the punishment, it was punishment for attacking the elders, not necessarily for helping WWX; thirty-three lashes for thirty-three elders badly injured. LXC couldn’t have just... let LWJ get away with attacking the elders of their clan, that would’ve been a political disaster within their sect even keeping the whole thing a secret from other sects. And honestly? Between helping the cultivation world’s enemy number one and gravely injuring the clan’s elders, it wouldn’t surprise me if LWJ could’ve been executed. Any other sect leader probably would’ve executed him for aiding WWX, but LXC couldn’t do that to his brother. Instead he sent the elders who most respected LWJ to apprehend him and bring him back before anyone else realized what he was doing. Was the whipping severe? Definitely. But considering what other punishments were on the table, I’d argue LXC was downright merciful. LWJ clearly thinks it was justified, or at least understandable, and while that doesn’t necessarily mean it was okay (I mean, WWX insists JC repeatedly trying to kill him is totally fine), I do think that should be considered. LWJ knew he would be punished when he went back; a big part of the novel is accountability for one’s actions, and I’d argue this is a part of that theme.

LXC believing the story about his mother is like... what else is he supposed to do? As you say, LWJ also seems to believe it. They have no reason to doubt it! The certainty suggests that no one (not the sect’s elders, not their uncle, not even their mother) ever brought up the possibility of it being false! When all evidence suggests that something is true and you can’t find anything to disprove it, insisting it’s false anyway will only hurt you! Of course he believes the only story anyone has ever told him when not even the woman it’s about suggested it was a lie! Leave him alone!

And the whole thing with WWX is fairly explicitly him thinking WWX knew LWJ was in love with him and chose to toy with his feelings just for fun. And also making his brother miserable for 13 years, which granted wasn’t really WWX’s fault, but we can’t fault a brother for seizing upon the most obvious target to blame for his baby brother’s suffering. From the outside it really does look like WWX was just toying with LWJ, after all; we know better because we’re in WWX’s head and know that he doesn’t know LWJ’s in love with him, and WWX corrects his behaviour as soon as he realizes, but until WWX tells them he doesn’t remember LWJ’s confession LXC has no reason to believe he’s not being pointlessly cruel. And thinking someone is deliberately using your brother’s feelings to hurt him probably makes it considerably easier to believe that person is to blame for all your brother’s suffering. I do think LXC will get past his resentment of WWX given time! His hatred of WWX is an immediate reaction to the suffering of someone he loves. You know, like JC’s desire to murder all the Wens for the fall of Lotus Pier, except considerably less genocidal and considerably more likely to be gotten over.

As for why people make excuses for JC but talk shit about LXC... I don’t know. How fandoms pick their favourite characters has always been something of a mystery to me.

#mdzs #cql #grapehate #lan xichen #lxc deserves better #anon #asks

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sleepymarmot · 4 years

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Re-liveblog: eps. 4 & 10

Here's something I've been planning to do for a while -- rereading the liveblog of The Untamed I wrote a couple of months ago and looking at my own initial reactions to Jin Guangyao's storyline with new eyes. Returning to old liveblogs is always fun, but particularly when the perspective on something changes so much by the end of the story!

Of course, this turned into a monstrosity with word count in thousands that sat in my drafts for about a month, and involved rewatching most of the scenes the liveblog mentioned, and some that it didn't. Please be warned: this series of posts is not meant to be a comprehensive analysis, and will jump from one point to another or highlight only the things I have changed my mind about, or haven’t talked on this blog before. It is going to include some very personal interpretations and opinions, sometimes possibly (or definitely, in the case of this very post) unpopular or negative. I am here to reflect on my own experience of watching the show almost as much as to write meta about the show itself.

[All re-liveblog posts]

[ep 4]

is this shy illegitimate son the same person who summoned WWX in the first episode, or are they two entirely unrelated bastards? I don’t think the ages match up…

Oh, so that's what I was thinking during Meng Yao's introduction scene: trying to figure out whether he was the same person as Mo Xuanyu or not. That's funny.

[negativity ahead!]

Of course, I was also admiring Xichen's elegant way of Using His Privilege For Good, but I thought that was self-explanatory enough not to put in the liveblog. It didn’t occur to me this scene could be interpreted as a sect leader openly hitting on a disadvantaged youth, or that such an interpretation would be popular, especially in a literal and positive way as opposed to a dark or subversive headcanon. So even if this is ever confirmed to be an intended message of the scene, I’d just say “I recognize the council has made a decision...” and continue to disregard it. Kind of incredible how it manages to squick me in at least five ways -- and xiayo is one of my main ships in this fandom! And not only squick -- in my eyes, sexualizing LXC’s intentions in this scene not only adds something that I don’t like, but actively detracts from the textual, surface meaning and narrative function of LXC’s actions (establishing LXC as a Model Authority Figure who masterfully manipulates the social power dynamics not for self-interest, but for justice, kindness, and peaceful conflict resolution; see also the following scene with the Wens). And from the other side, I think Meng Yao is shocked and impressed specifically because someone like LXC would do this for someone like him without an ulterior motive; I suspect that if he saw this as LXC making an excuse to touch someone attractive, he would only be turned off: a sect leader who can’t keep his hands to himself is nothing new and nothing good from the point of view of JGS’s illegitimate child.

But if this brief brushing of hands holds any in-universe significance in addition to a possible foreshadowing of this relationship’s future importance -- I think I just finally realized what it must be! This interaction is an adaptation of the following scene from the book (which, to be fair, happens when MY and LXC already know each other, not during a first meeting):

Meng Yao had been a famous joke for a certain period of time, which was why a few recognized him. Likely thinking that the son of a prostitute perhaps also carried some unclean things with him, the cultivators didn’t drink from the cups that he had presented with both hands. Instead, they put the cups to the side and even took out white handkerchiefs. As though it felt too uncomfortable, they repeatedly wiped the fingers that they’d touched the teacup with, either intentionally or not. Nie MingJue wasn’t someone mindful to such things. Wei WuXian, though, caught sight of this through the corners of his eyes. Meng Yao acted as if he didn’t see anything, his smile unfaltering as he continued to pass around tea.

As Lan XiChen accepted his cup, he looked up at him and smiled, “Thank you.”

He drank a sip of the tea immediately afterward. Only then did he continue to converse with Nie MingJue. A few cultivators began to feel uneasy as they saw the scene.

(Chapter 48)

So CQL!Meng Yao’s eyebrows twitch in pleased surprise because the sect leader not only personally approached to verbally support him, but took something directly from his hands, not even trying to avoid him or flinching at skin contact. As if it didn’t even occur to the majestic Zewu-jun to think of Meng Yao as dirty or disgusting.

I don’t know if this is an intended interpretation either, because I don’t remember anyone specifically avoiding physical contact with MY in the show, and on the contrary, there were examples of both friendly (from Huaisang) and unfriendly (from the commander) touch. But I certainly prefer it to the other interpretation, and ignoring the interaction altogether seems a bit intellectually dishonest.

[/negativity]

On another note, much is said about JGY’s performativity, but check out LXC’s! Someone’s being bullied in his classroom? Not on his watch! Time to descend from his pedestal like truth coming out of her well, Very Pointedly and at length explain how this person Has His Official And Personal Approval And Is Very Welcome Here, then take the gift from him personally instead of letting a disciple do that. Note how in the following scene, he also personally accepts the gift from Wen Qing as a peacemaking gesture. I love how LXC’s character establishing event is about defusing not one but two uncomfortable situations in a row. Of the two brothers, all social skills went to him...

I have no comment on the goodbye scene. Just sadness.

Oh wait, after rewatching the entire show and coming back to the post, I do have something to say. This episode is the only time I can say with all certainty that all of Meng Yao’s words and reactions are fully sincere. After this point in the timeline, it will never happen again. :(

It’s a shame that the gifs I’ve seen of this scene end with the iconic stopped bow, because the final shots are also great! As soon as MY turns away, his face becomes clouded again, and seconds after the Sect Leader himself held his arms and assured they were peers, he felt the need to bow and lower his eyes as some unnamed disciples walked by. And the bitter look he sends after them tells the viewer how much he is aware of falling from the dreamland where a nobleman would compliment him like three times within three minutes, back to the regular life where it is better not to be noticed at all. Meanwhile, Xichen looks him in the back like “I want it to grow strong and healthy, I want to tell my friends and neighbors about it”.

[ep 10]

Alright, when 10 minutes ago I thought “Meng Yao, sweetie, kill that clown”, this is not what I had in mind

SOMEBODY GIVE MENG YAO A HUG (after some emergency medical care) HE HAS DONE NOTHING WRONG IN HIS LIFE. Can Xichen adopt him now?

Ah, the joys of the first viewing.

At this point, I was thinking of both Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue exclusively as of father figures for Meng Yao. For LXC I think I slowly started to notice the romantic tension later but made a complete flip to the romantic interpretation only during the "late light talks... no sign of curse on his body" conversation. For NMJ it was during the head flashback. And as much as I like these pairings, it does feel like a loss that their existence displaces the very different pseudo-family dynamic. I think a story in which NMJ, LXC, WRH and JGS are all openly presented as competing father figures would be interesting; has anyone written that?

On rewatch, I was outraged by all of the blatant manipulation that I bought completely on the first viewing. MY is very good at playing a wounded bird -- especially when he's literally wounded. I had wondered why he just limped away without treating it, but now it's obvious he is using Stoic Suffering to invoke pity and admiration. Just like, a few minutes earlier, he showed NMJ that he was ready to be struck down, and it saved his life. He tells NHS with a sad but brave face “I won't be able to take care of you anymore” and on first viewing it worked on me just as he intended -- I thought “Poor boy, so trained to serve, he puts his duty to others above his own feelings even in this situation”. Ha...

And NMJ is only helping his case. He had the chance to explain everything and share the truth of MY's actions. And in the novel, he does take this chance, retelling the incident to Xichen (who chooses to turn a blind eye). Instead, NMJ basically confirms MY’s narrative: by hiding the reason for the exile, he makes it seem like there was no respectable reason at all. NMJ, all by himself, makes himself look like an irrational tyrant, and MY like a victim of an arbitrariness. And he does it in front of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian, no less -- an heir to a major clan and his brother! By trying not to discuss internal problems with outsiders, he achieves an opposite effect. Luckily for him, JC and WWX don't give a shit... But imagine how different the plot would be if they had this information from the start?

What I still don't understand is -- what was Meng Yao’s plan in this episode? Who was he working for? Who was his accomplice, whose feet we saw in the later flasback -- surely not Xue Yang himself, he’s supposed to be under arrest! Was he working with the Jin secretly already? (I don’t think so: in a later scene, JGS asks him about this incident, seemingly ignorant.) Or with the Wen (I don't remember -- did Xue Yang go back to the Wen afterwards)? Or just with Xue Yang directly, setting him completely free just on the promise of future cooperation? This seems most plausible -- but to risk and lose everything over such an uncertain gamble doesn’t make MY look very smart.

I have some other things to say about the events of this episode, but they’ll be in the post about the flashbacks in episode 41.

#the untamed #jin guangyao #lan xichen #nie mingjue #blah blah blah #jgyreliveblog #starting with a risky one likely to alienate most of potential readers

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