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i-am-sassy-rogue · 2 years

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It’s not even analysis or any of sort but... what kind of reason to dislike female characters is to point out they are “actually” ugly?

It happens frequently in both Elia Martell and Sansa Stark discourse written by antis as somewhat an evidence for them not being important, good people or some mix of that.

MCU Scarlet Witch portrayal by Elizabeth Olsen is critized (among many others) of whitewashing (correctly) and... for actress being not pretty enough. Or, to quote my “fave”: having fuckin’ nasty face of r*tard (wow, congrats on ableism)

In top ten what is annoying about Elsa number 11 is her being ugly. To make matter worse, actually real problem when she almost killed her sister when she was an adult (strike her with her powers and then threw out of palace without any further thought) is on place 21.

Few people on Witcher wikia pointing out that Yennefer can’t be good fit for Geralt (book, game and show wise) because without magic she would be really horryfying to look at...?

Katniss is, indeed, strong fighter, complicated character and et cetera, but for certain Reddit discussion she can’t be called best female character of decade because she’s “far from pretty”.

Frost from Mortal Kombat 11 is written to be hate sink of sort (yes, I do like her, but that’s not the point): betrayed her master (beloved by fandom Subzero) for power, is incredibly arrogant and self-centered. But most common criticism? You guessed it.

Yue from ATLA among being called annoying, useless and weak, huge part of antis bring in her looks as another “flaw”.

Before writing “ooh, everyone has different beauty ideal, what do you expect?” - that’s not my point. Even if all these characters above were atrocious in looks, what kind of reason to dislike the character is that.

And if you feel urge to point that Katniss/ Yen/ MCU Scarlet Witch/ Frost/ any of the ladies are awful no matter their looks, that isn’t point of this post.

Also, yes, male characters are not immune to this, althought it’s certainly goes far more often about them being “not masculine enough”. Just scroll through Samwell Tarly criticism. And then compare it to S@ndor Cl3gane/T^rion L@nnister criticism AND defence against said criticism.

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katanabonbon · 2 years

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Also as for ly not having any choices at the tourney because she's a teenager, does not mean she was some weakling who had no personality

She saw Robert's wrong but everyone sees her as perfect?

I guess its a lot to do with Elia she's no one because she's from Dorne and thus deserves to be treated like she's secondary and has no feelings

#asoiaf #elia martell #the elia martell defence squad

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sofiasweden · 7 years

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*Somewhere in GoT heaven, after the reveal of the annullment*

Elia: You fucking bastard *hits Rhaegar with a stick* You fucking cheater! *hits* You fucking liar! *hits* You fucking imbecile! *hits* You fucking scumbag!*Hits* How could you do this to your own family! You fucking pig! *Hits*

Rhaegar: Ow, ow,ow! Darling, calm down!

Elia: DON'T FUCKING DARLING ME, YOU FUCKING FUCKER! *Start to hit even harder*

Rhaegar: Ow! Lyanna, help me!

Lyanna: Actually, no. You deserve this. *Walks away*

#game of thrones #elia martell #rhaegar targaryen #lyanna stark #elia martell defence squad #elia martell deserved better so did her children

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princesseliamartell · 5 years

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DnD are two white straight men, who only know how to write storylines for white people. Romanticizing Rhaegar and Lyanna’s “love story” is a clear example of it, they’ve romanticized selfish actions by completely ignore the outcome and the side story.

The disrespect towards Elia Martell and her children only shows how unimportant women of colour are not only in GOT’s storyline but in general tv.

Don’t get me wrong I like the show, I like characters like Sansa (who is also underrated and under appreciated by most of the fandom) but this is just to much to handle. And as a member of Elia Martell’s defence squad I will always defend her no matter what.

That’s it that’s the post.

#elia martell #justice for elia

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vol-au-vending-machine · 5 years

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Rhaegar/Lyanna shippers putting all the blame on Elia and hating on her is something both Rhaegar (if he had a shred of responsibility left) and Lyanna would probably detest them for. Lyanna hated bullies and defended the vulnerable, and it’s implied she was the Knight of the Laughing Tree. Whether or not she loved and willingly eloped with Rhaegar, she would not tolerate people shit-talking a vulnerable woman who did nothing wrong and was, at least in public, very loyal to her husband.

#elia martell deserved better #elia martell defence squad

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fvckinaphrodite · 1 year

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I cannot understand the rationale of "Good Stepmother Elia" or "Catelyn loves Jon Snow" fics where, because of the patriarchal and oppressive institutions, Elia and Catelyn are forced to live with their cheating husbands and, are expected to raise their husband's bastard born out of the infidelity that could pose a risk to their children's inheritance. I love Jon, but Catelyn's hesitance regarding him was valid. He wasn't a son, and he was the source of insurmountable shame to her.

I couldn't have put it better myself, honestly. Those fics disgust me. I find them disturbing and repulsive with the way they turn Catelyn and Elia into Jon's cheerleaders LMAO AS IF. I'm sorry but some of these authors just love to turn every female character in ASOIAF into plot devices for Jon's story.

You will not believe how many fics I've read in which Robb always insists to push both Sansa and Arya further down the inheritance line, and the Northern lords and ladies just nod along and agree like a bunch of baboons and how Catelyn just have to suck it all up. Sometimes there is even a fic or two where Sansa insists that Robb points Jon as his heir to mark her so-called "development" when the narrative brings her to the Riverlands after escaping King's Landing, and in the process, ruining a mother-daughter relationship forever. Guess what's gonna happen? Yep. Robb dies and Jon becomes king with Sansa as his ever faithful advisor. Sometimes even Sansa is pushed away from the North and decides to stay in the South because Gods forbid she ever touch the Northern throne again. Lmao.

Or, you know, the favorite of all Rhaegar Wins AU, fics where Jon becomes the next king after Rhaegar because Aegon is gay and conveniently doesn't want the Iron Throne🥺

I'm a Jonsa stan. I love me some fics with angst; Sansa's struggle to overcome the fact that Jon's existence hurts Catelyn, etc. But there's a line for everything. For example, I fucking refuse to read Jonsa fics where Catelyn is so demonized one would think she constantly beat him when he's a child or told him to become a servant or a stable boy or something. And of course, Sansa gonna defend him with her whole chest and worships the ground he walks on. Lmao Unbelievable. What a way to degrade a female character, to turn her into a plot device--a cheerleader for their hero. Well done.

#elia martell #catelyn tully #catelyn stark #pro elia martell #pro catelyn stark #sansa stark #jon snow #aegon vi targaryen #anti asoiaf fandom #asoiaf #got #catelyn stark defence squad #catelyn stark defense squad #elia martell deserved better

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katanabonbon · 7 years

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Why is it always like Elia Martell is the weaker one? The one who is not as accomplished or beautiful or royal or wonderful?

As if its justified that she was cheated on?

What was her crime that she deserves to be spoken about like this?

I mean. Really.

#the elia martell defence squad #uhhmmm #asoiaf #elia martell #rhaegar targaryen

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vol-au-vending-machine · 5 years

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Rhaegar's wife is lyanna Stark, you fool. Elia was just somebody he was made to marry and breed with and she couldn't even do that much. How many deaths would've been avoided if Elia had just agreed to pop out another kid? Anyway, you can cry over your useless faves Danielle and Elia but at the end of the day, the best Targaryen men (rhaegar and jon) fell for Stark women (lyanna and Sansa), not for that barren Martell and that mad Targaryen woman.

Forgive me, anon, but you specifically mentioned you were referring to asoiaf. asoiaf is a book series, game of thrones is the tv show. They’re not the same thing, but if you haven’t read the books I understand your confusion of the two things.

“Rhaegar’s wife is lyanna Stark”

This is the show canon. In the books Rhaegar abducted and/or eloped with Lyanna, but there’s no evidence at all that he annulled his marriage. Also, he has no legitimate reason for annulling his marriage. You may not know this, anon, but annulment and divorce are not the same thing. Annulment means a marriage never existed, and in medieval times could only be granted for a handful of reasons, usually because the marriage occurred without papal dispensation and was within the forbidden degrees of affinity (layman’s terms: they were too closely related by blood or marriage to marry without the pope’s permission). Alternatively, annulment could be granted because the marriage was never consummated. This reason is important in the world of Westeros, because it is the reason Sansa can get her marriage to Tyrion annulled. If the marriage was consummated, they’d have been stuck together, which is why, you may recall, Tywin was so keen for Tyrion and Sansa to get busy. I assume you’ve watched season 3, but I recommend it if you haven’t, it's compelling stuff.

“she couldn't even do that much. How many deaths would've been avoided if Elia had just agreed to pop out another kid?”

A word of caution, anon: it’s considered crude and unenlightened to reduce a woman's value to her breeding capabilities. If I may insert a pun, it’s positively medieval. Women can do so many more things than bear children. Ask any woman you know.

Elia had already done her duty in marriage. She supplied a healthy legitimate male heir to the throne (from the Westerosi POV) and a healthy legitimate girl, who could marry and make alliances. Furthermore, in the event of baby Aegon’s death, there was still a male heir to succeed Rhaegar in the form of Viserys, who was 7-8 when Robert’s Rebellion happened.

Elia risked her life both times to do her duty. She and Rhaegar both knew that another child could kill her.

How many deaths would’ve been avoided if... Lyanna told her father and brother where she’d gone? Granted, if Rhaegar abducted her, there’s a good reason she couldn't send a raven. But if Rhaegar abducted a 16 year old girl, is he still the best Targaryen man? How many deaths would’ve been avoided if... Rhaegar removed his father from power in time, and protected his aunt-mother? How many deaths would've been avoided if... Brandon Stark had a brain? How many deaths would've been avoided if... Varys wasn’t fuelling Aerys’ paranoia? How many deaths would’ve been avoided if... Aerys didn't slaughter Starks and Stark bannermen? How many deaths would’ve been avoided if... Connington destroyed Stony Sept to ensure the death of Robert Baratheon, rather than spending hours searching for him?

How would Elia bearing another child stop Aerys from being a paranoid pyromaniac?

“you can cry over your useless faves Danielle”

There is no asoiaf/game of thrones character called Danielle. I think you mean Daenerys, presumably your phone autocorrected.

“the best Targaryen men (rhaegar and jon) fell for Stark women (lyanna and Sansa), not for that barren Martell and that mad Targaryen woman.”

This is Maester Aemon erasure. Aemon, Jaehaerys the Conciliator, Aegon V... where are their Stark women? And how are Westeros’ best kings and noblest Targaryens inferior to Rhaegar Targaryen, who failed to protect: his mother, his brother, his wife, his son, his daughter, Lyanna, his house, his kingdoms? If we judge a woman for her ability to bear children, how do we judge a man who failed to protect those children?

“that barren Martell”

Elia had 2 children. Dany conceived. Where’s your proof that Sansa can have children, anon? If, as you say, that’s a woman’s duty? Has she had any children? Has she even conceived? In the books, she’s yet to have sex. But Sansaherself doesn't know if she’ll have sons she said in Season 1 to her septa: “what if I only have girls?” How do you know Sansa isn’t barren anon? Having periods doesn’t guarantee she’ll have healthy children.

Also, Jon never fell in love with Sansa. In the books, Arya is the sister Jon risks everything for. Sansa is the Stark Jon and Arya joke about. Jon loves women with similar temperaments to Arya, not women who resemble Catelyn Stark.The fact she’s a redhead is clutching at straws. In the show, it takes 5 hot seconds for her to renege on a solemn promise to him in front of a heart tree. Arya kept her word. Sansa knows she lost his trust, because she asks him for his forgiveness.

...does he say yes?

“that mad Targaryen woman”

I don’t think Jon has met any mad Targaryen women. In fact, I can’t think of a historical case of a Targaryen woman going mad. All the batshit ones (aerys, baelor, guy that drank wildfire) have all been men.

If you have any more queries about asoiaf and game of thrones, anon, I will be happy to explain, or refer you to a helpful Tumblr blog if your query is more specialised.

#game of thrones #asoiaf #now run along anon while the grown ups talk business #stupid people are stupid #elia martell defence squad #elia martell deserved better

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