#Marc Okrand

[whaleiumsharkspeare]

I keep on getting robocalls today and I swear next time I get one, I’m gonna answer and start speaking in Atlantean to confuse the caller and get them to lay off.

BRB, reading the Wikipedia page for the Atlantean language created by Marc Okrand for Atlantis: the Lost Empire

#robocalls #atlantis the lost empire #Marc okrand #Atlantean

[dedalvs]

Please convince mr Okrand to expand on his Atlantean conlang

You know, Marc continues to work in fits and spurts on various things that require his attention (e.g. when a translation comes up here and there, or when the Klingon community wants some words for stuff), but otherwise, I don't think he spends a ton of time conlanging—and if he does, he isn't spending time on Atlantean. That's my guess. I think if you want to get his attention on Atlantean, you've got to band together. Has Atlantean got a Discord? If you can organize and nail a thesis to his virtual door, he might get back into it and generate some vocab. Otherwise, there's too much stuff going on with Star Trek to cause him to go back to Atlantean.

You know what you need? One of those live action Disney remakes. If they had to do one of those, I bet that Atlantean will come back and require new vocab, and they'd have to get him involved.

But I'll send him a text and let him know you're looking for more vocab.

#atlantis #disney atlantis #atlantean #conlang #language #marc okrand #klingon #kli

[daily-klingon]

chay DajatlhlaH "you are not immune to propaganda"?

taj Hol tu'lu'DI', DuwunchoHmoH taj Hol.

#the klingon dictionary #the daily klingon #tlhingan hol #klingon language #star trek #klingons #marc okrand #Qapla'

[chaotic-hypnotic-erotic]

neqjung wa’DIch jaj botIvjaj Happy First Contact Day!

Celebrating First Contact between the Klingons and Earthers, on this day in 2151.

Also, rest easy, Tommy “Tiny” Lister, the actor, taken from us back on December 11 2020.

#The Daily Klingon #Klingon #tlhIngan Hol #The Klingon Dictionary #Klingon language #Dr Marc Okrand #nuqneH #Qapla'

[firstroseofspring]

ohh my goodness. im gonna learn klingon the desire overcame my defenses

#diary #me 🤝 marc okrand's bibliography #klingon language institute member. officially.

[worflesbian]

Klingons & Racialisation - the Long Post

This post is an overview of the racial coding of the Klingons from their first appearance to the present day, illustrated by quotes from Trek writers, actors and crew members taken from the Memory Alpha article Depicting Klingons, with my own interjected summaries and explanations. It is by no means comprehensive (I likely missed some stuff), and does not offer critical analysis of the quotes provided, but nonetheless is intended to demonstrate irreproachably the open fact that Klingons have always been intentionally written and designed as non-white -- something that fandom consistently fails to take into account when perpetuating racist stereotypes and reiterating racist canon content. I recommend reading the whole article for a more in-depth understanding of the subject, as well as seeking out the existing writing of fans of colour. This post is primarily for reference purposes so I've tried to limit my own analysis and opinions, but I do post those in my Klingon tag as well as more general headcanons and worldbuilding and I'm happy to answer any (good faith) questions this post may raise.

As always, if I have overstepped in any way as a white fan in making this post, I am grateful to be informed and will make any required changes.

Content warning for outdated and offensive language under the cut.

The Original Series

"There is some suggestion that the Klingons represent a Cold Warrior's view of China in the 1960s – swarthy, brutally repressive." (Star Trek Magazine issue 153, p. 66) "And I think he was basing a lot of it on the kind of attitude of the Japanese in World War II...." ("Errand of Mercy" Starfleet Access, TOS Season 1 Blu-ray) The script of "Errand of Mercy" introduces the Klingon look by saying, "We see the Klingons are Orientals," "Spray my hair black, give me a kind of swamp creature green olivey mud reptilian make-up, and we'll borrow some stuff from Fu Manchu, and put a long moustache and eyebrows on me." ("The Sword of Colicos", Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - The Official Poster Magazine, No. 8) "I think the makeup was called 'Mexican #1 or #2.' That was the name of the original makeup foundation – they actually had kind of racist names at the time, like 'Negro #1' and 'Mexican #2' – which was the basis for the original Star Trek makeups." (Star Trek Magazine issue 172, p. 59) "In the original series, all they wore was a dark face and their black hair," Michael Westmore observed. ("Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season Two", DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) The Klingons' appearance changed within the original Star Trek series; although dark makeup and heavy eyebrows were the norm, the Klingons of "The Trouble with Tribbles" were much lighter-skinned and more Human-like in appearance.... He noticed that they are not only less like Mongol warriors by having less of a swarthy appearance but also by being slightly not as fierce... ("The Trouble with Tribbles" Starfleet Access, TOS Season 2 Blu-ray) "...they were meant to represent the Communist foes of the United States specifically during the Vietnam War, which was being controversially fought at that time. (Star Trek: The Original Series 365, p. 222) "...let us never set up a situation whereby those adversaries of ours [Klingons] give any indication of ever being anything but highly aggressive and self-seeking opponents." (These Are the Voyages: TOS Season Three)

Here it is explicitly stated that the Klingons were based on various Asian cultures, with the USSR also being mentioned heavily in the article. This influence and the use of "yellowface" is covered more comprehensively in this youtube video Klingons & The History Of Racial Coding. However, the video has some notable gaps which I hope to cover in this post.

Post-TOS (movies)

The Star Trek III portrayal of Klingons took inspiration from Japanese history. "Harve [Bennett] had the notion that the Klingons were like Samurai warriors," explained linguist Marc Okrand. (Star Trek: Communicator issue 114, p. 27) Robert Fletcher agreed with Bennett, later saying of the Klingons, "I always liked to think of them as authoritarian, almost feudal, like Japan had been." (The Making of the Trek Films, UK 3rd ed., p. 52) Regarding the make-up, Michael Westmore observed, "Until now, Klingons were brown. Some had a bony ridge running down the middle of their foreheads, long black wigs and facial hair." (Star Trek: The Next Generation Makeup FX Journal, p. 28) "I thought it was an ideal way for us to have our closure too, because the Klingons for us have always been the Communist Block, the Evil Empire. It just made sense to do that story." (The Making of the Trek Films, UK 3rd ed., p. 100) "Gene was really bothered by the Klingons in VI [....] [They] were, in his words, 'too civilized, too decent, too much of the good guys in the story.' [....] [The Klingon detente] was not the way Gene would have handled it. He would have reversed it, he would have had the Klingons being the ones who couldn't handle the peace, with the Federation saying, 'Come on, let's try and work this out.'" (Star Trek Movie Memories, hardback ed., p. 289) "The story never explored the Klingon culture the way I'd hoped it would [....] I was hoping for greater insight into the Klingons." (I Am Spock) Nimoy hoped, in specific, that the movie would provide some important insight into why the Klingons had "always been so angry, such nasty, vicious murderers." Nimoy wanted the insightful knowledge to be an intellectually transformational force, changing the thinking of Kirk and the audience. (Star Trek Movie Memories, hardback ed., pp. 287-288) In an interview in the DS9 Season 7 DVD, Robert O'Reilly observed that a long-running joke among actors who have played Klingons is that they do not want to appear in the Star Trek films as, he believes, the only purpose of a Klingon in one of the films was to be killed off.

Although these last three quotes may not seem relevant, I believe they highlight an important facet of the racialisation of the Klingons. It reads as though Gene Roddenberry was against depicting the Klingons in a more sympathetic light than the Federation, and considering that the Klingons are intended to be non-white, refusing to give depth or motive to their anger in favour of keeping them "nasty, vicious murderers" comes across as fairly racist, especially when these kind of reductive and harmful stereotypes could've been challenged as Nimoy suggests. The treatment of Klingons as disposable villains is also concerning in this context.

The Next Generation

African-American actors were often cast as Klingons in TNG and subsequent Star Trek productions. This practice wasn't racially motivated but was instead carried out because it lessened makeup time, as the performers already had a brown complexion without having to have their skin painted that color. (Stardate Revisited: The Origin of Star Trek: TNG, Part 2: Launch, TNG Season 1 Blu-ray) Tony Todd, who portrayed the recurring Klingon character Kurn, stated, "I don't look at the Klingons necessarily as African-Americans, but it's about tapping into something–they're certainly an alienated people, so maybe that's why African-American actors can identify with those characters. But that doesn't mean it's exclusive to them." (Star Trek: Communicator issue 116, p. 54) Michael Westmore actually changed the Klingon facial design in numerous ways, though. He stated, "I added a Shakespearean style of facial hair and a forehead bone structure based on dinosaur vertebrae and I was able to modify motion picture Klingons for television." (Star Trek: Aliens & Artifacts, p. 59) In "A Matter Of Honor", the Klingons were intended to be used to shed some light on a common social problem prevalent at the time of the episode's making. This was, namely, what it was like to be the only person of either white or black skin coloration while surrounded by people of the other color. The Klingons were selected to illustrate this theme as a spin on the usual arrangement of a predominantly Human crew serving aboard the Enterprise-D alongside Worf. (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, p. 176) Two historical societies, the Samurai and Vikings, served as other inspirations, Moore perceiving about Klingon culture, "There was the calm, elegant reserve associated with the Samurai but there was the 'party-down' like the Vikings." (Star Trek: Communicator issue 114, p. 58) "I stopped thinking of the Klingons as the Cold War adversary," he explained. "I didn't think it fit [....] The place where the Russians were when I was doing the Klingon shows just wasn't as relevant any more." (Star Trek: The Magazine Volume 1, Issue 19, pp. 64-65) "The Klingons are not evil, tyrannical pirates bent only on pillage and plunder. They have a strict, almost unyielding code of ethics and honor and take their responsibilities as rulers seriously." Following a description of the Klingon homeworld, the memo continued by saying, "Klingon society could most closely be compared to that of Sparta or feudal Japan." ("Sins of the Father" audio commentary, TNG Season 3 Blu-ray) Having recently seen the film Malcolm X, he imagined the Klingons in the "Birthright" duology as metaphors for black people. (Captains' Logs: The Unauthorized Complete Trek Voyages, p. 274; Star Trek: Communicator issue 105, p. 16) "There's a certain way you have to carry yourself. You have to really be able to project the violence and the anger [....] All you have to do is think of the Spartans. They say, 'They'd rather have you come home dead on your shield than come home a coward.' [18]

This is where I feel the video essay previously mentioned falls short -- in the next gen era, Klingons are now explicitly black-coded. While some Asian cultural influences are still cited, they learn more towards the historical and are intermixed with other historical European influences (Spartans, Vikings, Shakespeare) rather than being fueled by contemporary prejudices towards the political enemies of the US as they were in the TOS era.

Deep Space Nine

Fields also generally based the Klingon group on American Western prototypes from the film The Magnificent Seven or, to a lesser extent, Japanese prototypes from The Magnificent Seven's movie source material, Seven Samurai. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (pp. 131-132)) "So, the hair [...] was permed. So, it had more of a curl instead of the straight type look, and by perming it, they were able to kind of give them larger, bigger hair, so it was more like a mane." ("Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season Two", DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) "I don't know how you could equate Klingons with what's going on in the world today," he admitted. "I think the intention was to make them like samurai. That hairdo they gave them is very much a samurai hairdo. A lot of the fight sequences, the moves with the bat'telh, are very much taken out of the Asian martial arts [....] It's very romantic you know, these three old guys, the Klingon over-the-hill gang." (The Official Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Magazine issue 15, pp. 17-18) "It was different for them to get into this makeup, because [...] [the makeup was more elaborate and] the beards were bigger, and they were greyer, and they had curls to them, and the moustaches, they had the Fu Manchu look to them. So, they weren't used to sitting that long to be a Klingon." ("Michael Westmore's Aliens: Season Two", DS9 Season 2 DVD special features) For recreating some old-style Klingons in "Trials and Tribble-ations", the Klingon-playing actors had to be made up with the same swarthy, shiny brown makeup as used in the original series. (The Magic of Tribbles: The Making of Trials and Tribble-ations) ...he had them unite in song, thinking this was "just the kind of thing that Klingons do" because they are, in his opinion, similar to Vikings. (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion (p. 449)) "I always saw the Klingons as a combination of Japanese Samurai who haven't had their morning coffee (or tea!) and African Zulu warriors." [25]

In DS9 the only inspirations cited seem to be historical, once again leaning towards feudal Japan and the Vikings. Interestingly although the Klingons here are predominantly dark-skinned, I don't think that J.G. Hertzler, who is white, had his skin significantly darkened to play Martok (at least, not compared to the obvious brown makeup worn by other white actors playing Klingons). Having a white actor play a Klingon without dark makeup could've set a precedent decreasing the use of such practices later on, but no one seems to have picked up on it.

Enterprise

The Klingons of ENT: "Sleeping Dogs" were based on the crew of the Russian submarine Kursk. "For me," said Dekker, "the point was to acknowledge the Klingons as 'people' – to find them in a clear position of distress [....] The idea to 'humanize' their plight was mine, and it wasn't anything I thought about as far as canon. It just seemed right." (Star Trek: The Official Starships Collection, issue 41, pp. 10-12) In the final draft script of "Affliction", the altered Klingons were initially referred to as "fierce-looking aliens" and were further described thus; "The aliens have a swarthy complexion, and dark facial hair... they could easily be mistaken for Humans. We'll eventually learn these are Klinqons... but their cranial ridges have disappeared."

At this point in time it seems the Klingons had essentially done a 180 from one-dimensional villains to sympathetic fan favourites, while still retaining the skin-darkening aspect of their makeup and "barbaric" characterisation. Although this is not mentioned in the article's section on the Abrams films, the images provided do demonstrate a level of skin darkening for the Klingons' brief appearance in Into Darkness.

The final section of the article is incomplete, meaning I don't have a lot of information for Discovery's redesign of the Klingons. The sources I can find cite ancient civilisations such as the Byzantines as well as Islamic architecture as inspiration for the set design, with a baroque influence on the costumes. I have heard rumours that the crew of Discovery have cited North African cultures as their inspiration for the Klingons but I can't currently find a source for this. Despite the lack of direct quotes, it's visibly clear that the Klingon makeup is still darkening the skin of white actors, although this time also to non-human blue and purple colours, as well as altering certain features in a racialised way. To elaborate: Mary Chieffo, who plays L'Rell on Discovery, is white and has a very thin nose and small lips, but in costume these are broadened in a way that seems imitative of African ethnic features.

As of the making of this post (early August 2023) I haven't seen any of Strange New Worlds, but from some cursory research its latest episode (Subspace Rhapsody) seems to have put a white actor (Bruce Horak) in brown makeup to play a Klingon. I am deeply disappointed that on a television set in 2023 people can still be darkening an actors skin like this without questioning the racial implications of what they're doing.

Thank you for reading to the end of this post. Please feel free to link to it if you found it useful enough to cite in another context. I would like to reiterate that I am white and while this is an issue I care deeply about it is not one I have an emic understanding of, and if anything I've said here is inappropriate I would be very grateful to be made aware.

#ive tried to make this like. really formal to cover the fact that im fuckin Ragin at snw for doing literal fucking brownface in 2023 #next up top ten things fans should Fucking Reconsider saying about klingon characters #anyway #i feel like as a white trekkie who's big into klingons there's this insane blindspot when it comes to The Racism #that ive only ever seen fans of colour talk about #so if i have one goal for this post its to try and reduce that blindspot a bit and give people something concrete to point to #when some fuckwits in their notes acting as tho ~theyre aliens so it cant be racist~ #tlhIngan #ghItlhpu'wIj

[conlangery]

Just released my interview with Marc Okrand, who created Klingon and Atlantean.

You can also get the audio of the interview on my site or through your podcast player.

#conlang #language #linguistics #podcast #klingon #star trek #atlantean #disney atlantis #Youtube

[nerds-yearbook]

On June 15, 2001 Disney released Atlantis: The Lost Empire. It was the first tradionally drawn Disney animated feature to recieve a PG rating since The Black Cauldron (1985). Marc Okrand developed a language specifically for this film. The film takes place in 1914, involving academic Milo Thatch (Michael J Fox) and a group of mercenaries (voiced by Jim Varney, Corey Burton, Claudia Christian, James Garner, Jaqueline Obradors, Don Novello, and Phil Morris) sent in search of the lost city of Atlantis. When they actually find the futuristic place, they meet the king (Leonard Nimoy) and his daughter Kida (Cree Summer). ("Atlantis: The Lost Empire", Animated Flm, Event)

#nerds yearbook #real life event #first appearance #1914 #2001 #june #disney #walt disney #animation #cartoon #tab murphy #kirk wise #plato #joss whedon #gary trousdale #bryce zabel #jackie zabel #atlantis #atlantis the lost empire #michael j fox #milo thatch #marc okrand #john mahoney #david ogden stiers #steven barr #jim varney #cookie #corey burton #gaetan moliere #claudia christian

[trillscienceofficer]

btw I bought a used copy of "The Klingon Way" by Marc Okrand and the seller sent me this

(The book is on its way. Thanks and Qapla')

#I laughed

[tower-of-hana]

Intro Post

This post will probably be updated as things come up so make sure to pay attention to it.

Who Are You?

Salvēte omines It's me, Hana. I am a conlanger, linguist, and demigirl from the United States and my pronouns are she/it. I also do Latin things sometimes because that is part of my background.

How Do You Pronounce Your Name?

I prefer /xana/ (German ch + anna) as it is a Gothic name but I accept /hana/ (it's pronounced the way it looks) too.

What Is a Conlanger?

A conlanger is a person who makes fictional languages, think David Peterson (Dothraki/Valyrian etc.), Marc Okrand (Klingon), Dr. Zamenhof (Esperanto). Tolkien (Sindarin, Quenya etc.)

What Are Your Profiles?

Here are the active ones

NSFW blog

Conlangs only blog

ConWorkShop

CBB

Discord: saussureancatgirl

Bluesky

What Do You Post?

Sometimes I will post a bit of what I am working on and sometimes I will shitpost about linguistics. Sometimes I do neither of those things and post about other stuff.

What Conlangs Are You Working On Right Now?

The only conlang I am working on right now is Jallo (d͡zaɬo). I will probably start a new one at some point.

Do You Accept Asks?

Yes please reach out to me about anything.

What Is Your Policy for Finding People's Pronouns?

I will check every piece of social media linked in bio and the bios of those social media sites until I run out of places to look at which point your pronouns are they/them until you tell me otherwise.

Politics?

While I am on the left I probably save my political engagement and most of my angry ranting for. The reason I have this blog is because I wanted to shitpost about linguistics and my (small) group of followers were built off negative political engagement. It made me genuinely miserable and so I don't post on twitter that much anymore. Maybe when/if twitter goes under I will make a sideblog but idk. I guess what I'm saying is I probably won't argue with you.

What Is Your Opinion on This Sexuality/Gender/Kink?

I can't be bothered to list out my opinion on every separate sexuality/gender/kink you might have but as long as it is consensual (children and animals can't consent) it's probably good.

How Do You Filter Your Content?

I try to use common sense when I tag/cw/apply labels to my posts for things that I think will upset people but if you need me to do it differently then please feel free to send me a message. I don't make a lot of posts that require censoring.

What Are Your Opinions on Proship/Antiship?

The terms proship/antiship are so variable that they are completely meaningless so I can't really say.

[dedalvs]

New interview with me and Jessie re: Dune plus interviews with Marc Okrand and some other Klingonist friends.

#conlang #language #dune #fremen #chakobsa

[chaotic-hypnotic-erotic]

Bed

I am off to bed early.

Goodnight, everybody.

#The Daily Klingon #Klingon #tlhIngan Hol #The Klingon Dictionary #Klingon language #Dr Marc Okrand #nuqneH #Qapla'

[firstroseofspring]

the most romantic thing ever to be honest with you. i think statues and carvings in klingon culture run a really cool and compelling parallel and make a fantastic aid to the function/beauty of storytelling and poetry and song. there's a few examples of the importance of stone carving in the show/beta-canon, including of course worf's statue of kahless and morath, but there's also a famous historical statue of the lady lukara on qo'nos that was personally carved by kahless with a bat'leth, and the hall of heroes on qo'nos/hall of warriors on ty'gokor are full of statues that serve as a really proud reminder of their history

i think that sculpture work and carving being a big part of klingon culture really fits into the ideas that were introduced in the paq'batlh by marc okrand- according to him, in klingon music, beauty is the result of two forces opposing eachother, and the blurring of the line between the audience and the story is a natural part of klingon opera- the audience is encouraged to join in the narrative and become part of it.

i can see this being a natural result of the sculpting process- the sculptor and his material, the story he's trying to tell through the carving, the shaping and the molding- he shapes the material, and the material shapes the story, and in that way the line is blurred- the sculptor becomes part of the story he's trying to tell because he has to form it, and the opposition between the two of them- the material vs the sculptor represents this honorable challenge and this potential and this battle, because it needs to be shaped into the kind of narrative you want to tell the way you'd like it to be told. and the end result is organic in that same way, it evolves and changes as you work (or in the case of oral storytelling, as it's retold and shared), and just. i don't know if this is intentional across the whole show/franchise but i can really see the way this art form in particular might become a big part of klingon culture and history

#diary #there's of course a cleaner comparison if i were to use weaving and stuff but i am not aware of an example of klingon textiles in the show #perhaps the novels.... family crests might be woven which is So Loaded but im not too sure on that #also did you know the castle in suto'vo'qor is made of stone? that may not be relevant it could just be a metaphor for permanence but. slay #the paq'batlh also has stone carvings of a klingon opera which are like musical scores which is sweet lol its like no' Hol #and pictographs #i think theres also something to be said about architecture and how that might enjoy a more elevated position in klingon culture #long-standing buildings really traditional and grand and just. Klingon. you know #but most of what i imagine about the way qo'nos looks i got from pathways and the few times we see it in the shows #i have yet to see the movies!

[princess-ibri]

Are you inspired by any real world cultures for the Atlanteans?

I mean, I didn't create the Atlanteans or their language, that was all the creative people at Disney and especially Marc Okrand who formulated the Atlantean language based off theories of a pan proto language that could function as a mother tounge for the ones we have now. I'm sure the writers were inspired by many real world cultures.

There's actually a feature length documentary on the making of the movie, I'll link it below

#asks #disney #atlantis the lost empire #disney atlantis #conlang

[allbeendonebefore]

today i learn the klingon word for fish is ghotI and i am ready to fight marc okrand in a parking lot (affectionate)

#ling 101 war flashbacks jk #hapo rambles #keep imagining uhura brushing up on her vocab on an aquarium date with klingon/s and learning this and its so funny

[datubooty]

i knew Marc Okrand (best known for creating Klingon) wrote a grammar of Mutsun for his phd but i never put together how they both use capital letters instead of diacritics to indicate pronunciations that were unintuitive for learners (which means, in practice, English speakers.) it turns out the dissertation was completed in 1977 and Klingon didn’t come around until the 80s, but the dissertation uses an Americanist transcription instead, as would be expected for an academic work at that time. the current Mutsun orthography was developed by the learner community in consultation with linguists at some point between then and 2007 (source) so Klingon may have back-fed that 🤔

#linguisticsposting