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zachscarroll · 4 years

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Final Thoughts on Paper Mario the Origami King with some major spoilers

I thought this game overall was incredibly charming and worth your time if you are a fan of the classic games like the original Paper Mario 64 or Thousand Year Door. It was leaps and bounds ahead of Sticker Star, and overall I thought it was better paper Mario game than Color Splash ever hoped to be.

Even though I'm pleased with playing it through it does have some glaring issues. Right out of the gate, this game is being held back by some sort of executive decisions from Nintendo and it shows tremendously especially within the first few hours of the game. I know nothing about the development of the game, but there are defiantly some things that seem either out of place or rushed which is strange.

Practically the first 3-4 hours of the game is nothing but tutorials, which they do need to explain stuff but not this much oh my goodness. They truly took a lot of the challenge out of the game and made it "very, very young kid oriented" and I'm not looking for the most challenging game out there--I usually play most games on easier difficulties so I can enjoy the adventure instead of having to be annoyed with redoing things. Olivia pops up way too much. I liked her character for the most part. Between Huey, and Kersti, Olivia was a very good one. Huey was a little bit more funny, but Olivia had a lot of charm and multiple emotional arcs. I know saying that sounds silly for a Mario game but she does grow as a character showing that she's still worried about whether or not she can really stop her brother. However, she pops up every time something happens. It's too much. I can see something has appeared Olivia. It's okay--but I'm getting off topic that's exactly what Huey did too in Color Splash. I hate to say it but when she leaves your party by being crushed by a boulder it felt like a classic paper mario game then. You had Bobby with you and he would add his own flair as the helper character.

Bobby truly was a great partner, and even if he's only with you for like maybe 2 or so hours I enjoyed having him around. I'm extremely glad they had partners return even if they felt more like story related. I liked having more than just Olivia with me. All of the partners except Professor Toad were really cool. It kinda sucks that Professor Toad is so forgettable because he is the only partner who has an over world ability. I think it would have been cooler if he was like a Monty mole or something instead of just a Toad with a shovel, there's just so many Toads in the game that an archaeologist Toad could have been cool, but I don't really know where they were trying to go with the character. He was like a scaredy-cat kind of character but also made weird like college references like about his thesis. At the very least he had an unique outfit? I don't know I'm reaching for Professor Toad. Why not just have Captain Toad who's an already established character and an explorer? Anyway, I found it kinda weird that no one else had an over world ability, and they could have done some more interesting puzzles if they had given Kamek or Boswer some. I loved having Kamek join and how he talked about being self conscious and lacking self esteem because Bowser never listened to him. Bowser Jr. was cool too, he wasn't as bratty as I thought he'd be. He was written like a tough kid. Both Kamek and Jr. have satisfying reasons for leaving your party. I liked how they put Mario first in order to save the whole kingdom. It made me as the player feel like "these bad guys know that Mario can save them." I know it's silly but again just a nice touch to the story. Of course you get Bowser to join you right at the very end which is just so great. He even talks about his parenting practices. Luigi also have a shockingly hilarious and "key" role to the story. I'm so glad to see these classic characters have great writing behind them, and really show off that these partners are pretty vital to paper Mario. Especially Luigi and Bowser when in the previous two titles had maybe like 8 lines between the two of them. Yes they don't do much in battle, but they are vital to the story. If my paper Mario games have a fun and unique story then that's all I really want.

Bobby was my favorite. If you haven't seen the one big twist involving Bobby, I'd skip this section and pick back up at the next paragraph. Anyway, Bobby sacrifices himself to save Olivia. While you can kinda piece things together and see it coming after a while you don't expect Bobby to just like straight up die. I remember when it happened I was like, "they really did this in a Mario game?". They even have a cute moment later on in Bowser's castle where Olivia thinks she see Bobby again. Overall he was amazing. That whole area of Shogun Studios felt the most reminiscent of classic Paper Mario games. I had a grin on my face pretty much the whole way through.

The one big gripe I had with the partners is other than Bobby any time you wanna go back to Toad Town or other areas they're just like "yeah okay i'm gonna stay here see ya later". Why? Why not let them come with you? The writers don't have to write any additional dialogue and if they did that would have been cool. Why wouldn't Professor TOAD wanna go back to TOAD town? There's an extra area where you can take Bobby at one point to get photos taken with him in Shogun Studios. Why not do that with other characters as a cool little Easter egg? Truly I didn't understand why they couldn't travel with you. I know in that infamous interview floating around with the directors and producers saying they only wanted one partner at a time so it didn't cause any confusion for swapping them out but that's so stupid.

Back to the game being held back--there were times I could see the designers desperately wanted to make a unique character better, or give something else a personality but they weren't allowed to. It hurts a lot when the original paper Mario games could give toads fun little names like "Zess T." or "Fice T." and now we have "Professor Toad" or "Battle Lab Toad". There are two toads in Toad Town that both say something like "where's Purple Toad?" or "Where's Blue Toad?". Stuff like that takes me out of the enjoyment of the game. It's only when you go and look on the around on other sites that you find out that the Origami Craftsman man is actually Theofold. Yes, we did have captain T. ode, but like. That's just "Toad". Back to that interview from the producers of the game where they say they can't really alter Mario characters anymore like give them age, gender, etc. But come on. I'm not really sure why they can't give the toads proper names. I know that's an extreme nitpick, but that's definitely something that takes me out of the game and reminds me "oh yeah we can't do this anymore". Even Bobby, will constantly remind Olivia to call him "Bob-omb" It just feels like a slap in the face. Bring back Toadsworth? An established character who has been MIA for like years now. Just please. Please make the Toads different they did a very good job here with a handful like, the sea captain, captain T.ode, Professor Toad, and the Shangri-spa Toads. I remember those toads because they were dressed up differently than the other ones. I even remember the Toad who told you where the heart ups were because he was in a completely unique pose then the other ones. Please Nintendo I'm begging you just make them look more unique or don't rely on them as a pillar of a character. They are all the same. Just do more colors of Toads! There's red, blue, yellow, green, and purple.Make an orange Toad or something please. I liked finding the Toads in the different areas and they would unfold from origami, it gave me some korok seed vibes. Do more stuff like that!

Concerning the game's overall story, I liked it, but it could have been so much more. There were multiple key moments where I was like "why wouldn't they have a cut scene for this as like a flashback?". The first one was right at the beginning of the game. They instead of showing you in the actual game like a cut scene, they show a small slideshow of Toads setting up for the Origami festival with Princess Peach on the logo screen which I guess is okay, but I'm not a fan. Personally, I would have liked there to be a sort of storybook intro that the previous games had being like "every 100 years the toads in toad town set up a festival to honor the proud technique of origami" and then cut to Mario and Luigi getting a mail call from Parakarry (like the previous games) and then being like "the festival is today we hope to see you there." and then bam they're driving to the festival. I know that seems kinda dumb but why not show that in your game instead of Luigi being like "can't wait to get there" while he's driving his cart from Mario Kart. It's a little weird to me. The biggest moment like this happened when you first meet the origami craftsman (who yes is just a Toad) he explains these unique origami techniques he used to fold King Olly to make him come to life, but like brushes past it real quick. And then at the very very end (skip ahead if you don't want spoilers) Olly talks about this 1000 crane origami wish thing that was never brought up before by anyone. If he had mentioned it when he dropped the boulder on Olivia that would have been acceptable but it just kinda comes out of nowhere. If you're going to bring these things up then like at least mention them once before or have some type of set up and pay off for it. It just felt kinda rushed. The ending was cute though, and I remember liking Color Splash's ending a bit more but this one was surprisingly beautiful with how it ends with floating lanterns it reminded me a little of Tangled.

The other big thing people are complaining about is no experience. This has pros and cons. pros: the battle in this game a lot of them are scripted or can be ran past no problem. However if you want to buy better weapons or accessories (this game's subtle nod to the badge system) you need a lot of coins. A lot of them. You use the coins in battle to let the Toad audience help you or use coins to buy more time to line up your foes properly. I like this system. While I could have gone for a little more incentive to battle I found myself using my coins even if I had thousands of them. I thought it was a pretty good balance. I don't see why they couldn't have thrown in a little more to make the battles worthwhile though. Why not after ever 10 battles let you pick a stat? Mario's running speed in the over world could be faster, Mario's first strike can be stronger, It doesn't cost as many coins when using them in battle? These are just thoughts I've had if they don't want to use a traditional style stat system. They had max up hearts that raised power and health it's just kinda strange why they don't want to have stats improve or give you another reward for battling other than money.

I will say while backtracking to get missing collectibles I avoided battles outright. If I got into a battle while backtracking I would sigh. I knew there was nothing left for me to spend my coins on so I would try to run from the battle but nine times out of ten I would fail running from the battle. At least the battles go by quickly, but it would use up durability on your consumable weapons. I'm very glad that they brought back permanent weapons and no stickers or cards. This weapon system is a littler underutilized though. I feel like if the designers went in they could have come up with three or four more weapon types. Why not use more Mario related power ups? Why just the fire or ice flowers, tail, and pow block? Why not have a jump move that hits in a 4x4 area like the hammer? They have a hammer item that works like the jump move! Why not have the frog suit back from sticker star or color splash that you can use to dodge unavoidable damage if you don't line up the monsters in time? I loved the battle system a lot more than Sticker Star and Color Splash but it seems like they only scratched the surface of the attacks Mario could do. If you're going to have different weapons that break why not have 10 or 20 unique different weapons as opposed to just more powerful versions of the same 5 weapons? Same with the healing items. Why only mushrooms, when in Toad Town you can get coffee that speeds you up or slows you down? Especially when you find a handful of coffee shops in the game, why can't I buy those coffees there? Why not bring back the cooking in the game from the first two? I know it'll never happen, but near the end of the game you get a spot to cook one item and I really got my hopes up. I know I'm presenting a lot of questions, but this is all I thought about when doing the battles. If they do an "origami king 2" or something that reuses this battle system I feel like there is a lot of room for improvement and a lot more unique encounters. I also feel like they did this because they didn't want to over complicate things. They wanted the battles to be simple after you did a puzzle section. Also the battles are super snappy. Lasting two turns if you get the right line up and can be more if you don't. I think that's a really good way to make the player really learn the right way to move the board. That being said there were many times I didn't see the solution and would brute force my way through making some of the battles a bit of a slog.

They do flip the script a lot with the boss battles. First off "The Legion of Stationary" is great. While it took me a while to get used to them, they were some of the best fights in the whole game. The Tape boss was extremely cool and used an element that I wished more games could use. They let you get comfortable with the battle system then the tape is like "no you can't move stuff around, or you have to move the 2 rings around at once." This was such a cool battle and it really did make you think. I will say it was a little weird that the bosses were real life objects like colored pencils or a bunch of rubber bands, but I thought it was more comical. I know a lot of folks did not like them at all. They were set up and referenced though because all of the tools were mentioned in a bookshelf in the origami craftsman's library. This is how set up and pay off is done correctly because Olly would have seen him using them and so he'd use them against the toads and Mario just a nice little touch really. If you missed the book in the library scene they really hammer it home by showing you the legion of stationary was on the origami craftman's desk. I've looked around online and apparently a lot of the bosses can be beaten differently, they don't all end in 1000 fold arms finishers which is super cool.

Also the two other big mechanics for this game were the 1000 fold arms and the paper macho bad guys. The 1000 fold arm thing was fine, it felt right at home in a game like this which focused on origami. That being said the paper macho characters felt tacked on. They did not belong in this game, They were the other side of the battles being in real time and defeated by Mario using his hammer on them. The reason why they had to have these were if Olivia was not with you like on the cruise ship you had a way to take down a boss without her help, because she's needed for the 1000 fold arm technique. Cool idea, but felt wrong for this game which focused on origami it's like they really really wanted to make this a Zelda game and have action style battles to contrast to the puzzle ones. Again, I could see them being used in another game.

If they do make another Paper Mario game, and I hope they do, I hope they keep pushing the needle forward.Every game since Sticker Star has been a HUGE improvement, and if we're not going back to the original games I hope each game makes an effort to address all of the glaring issues that all of us Paper Mario fans have.

#paper mario #the origami king #nintendo #personal #mario #switch #nintendo switch #my thoughts #video games #review #olivia #bobby #video game review

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echoeternally · 5 years

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Which Mario characters would be, as Watership Down Characters, and vice versa?

You know, I took some time to think about this one today, and I’ve got to admit, for my tastes, I can’t think of a feasible way that this works out. And it’s for a few reasons that kind of get me hung up.

Honestly, I think it comes down to at least four pretty divisive factors that keep them from being compared on an equal scale, and adds a terribly heightened challenge to it all. These would be: gender ratios (A), inconsistent characterizations (B), mismatching personalities ©, and cast prominence (D).

Obviously, it’s a lot to get into, so, I’ll include that in a portion below the cut. If you keep going, I’ll try to properly explain why it’s not just a clear-cut question to answer for this one.

A) First, gender ratios, which can be worked around based solely on personality, but still glares out big time. Watership Down has some female characters on the roster, but they tend to matter little comparatively. Hell, there are multiple characters that started as male that were later swapped to female roles in later adaptations. It’s good, and shows that the role can be played by a character, not a gender. But it’s also a reminder that the original work is dated in its viable female cast. By contrast, Mario has a nice number, and they stand out a lot better, each with unique and distinct roles, personalities, and general flavors that they add. They’re fun and dynamic, a highlight to see.

B) This actually leads into the next point, though, which would be the inconsistent characterizations. Both franchises kind of mess around with how their characters are portrayed and what they do. Sure, you get the basics well enough with the major characters: Hazel’s the brave hero leader, Mario tends to be that too. Fiver’s the timid younger brother, so is Luigi.

But it gets weirder the further down the cast list you go. Bowser’s the big bad guy, but depending on his role as the main villain or not, he can either be sympathized with, or totally evil; he’s maybe just looking for love, or has insatiable desires for conquest. Bigwig is a strong authority figure, but can either be super loyal or a part-time jerk that questions his own leader’s authority. Peach is helpless, or more powerful than she lets on. Hell, Clover took over half of Hyzenthlay’s role in the latest adaptation, and they’re far from the only instance of variable depictions in the series, further depending on the characters that are used. Overall, these changes can make them flexible to develop over time, but it makes them harder to pin down on which role defines them best.

C) And that flexibility also leads to mismatching personalities between the casts of both stories. Because Rosalina first appeared as this quiet, graceful, and yet all powerful entity, we’d picture that side to her, kind of elevating her above the usual human counterparts she’d stand beside, calling into question if she’s even human herself. But she’s later show to have simple joys and pleasures, so she’s not totally detached and above it all. This doesn’t quite equate to any particular character in Watership Down; you could try to make her on par with the Black Rabbit of Inlé, based on powers and ethereal-vibes, but Inlé is too tied with death to be a fair comparison for Rosalina.

Likewise, we have characters from Watership Down known for their stock personality types: Blackberry is the smart one, Strawberry is the big eater, and Hawkbit is the deadpan snarker. None of these particularly hit Mario characters due to their shifts in depictions. Sometimes the big eater is Bowser, sometimes it’s Luigi (yeah). Rosalina seems smart, but Yoshi and Toad have been depicted this way as well. Virtually any one of the Mario cast can fall into sarcasm and dry humor. It’s touch-and-go, but doesn’t give a solid match-up for anyone.

D) Finally, if the mentions above didn’t already make it obvious, then the issue falls to how the casts line up with first themselves, and then one another. The core cast for Mario’s main game franchise tends to fall upon Mario, Peach, Bowser, and typically Luigi to round up the rest, though sometimes he can be left out. Watership Down’s main group would likely be Hazel, Fiver, Bigwig, and General Woundwart. These are more or less the essential characters to have for there to be a story to tell for the franchises.

From there, have fun figuring out who matters and to what level. You can probably safely include higher profile picks for the major characters of each. Mario tends to favor Yoshi, some form of Toad, and generally a rotating female cast member, plus a sidekick villain or a few. Watership Down gets a way better story including the heroism from Hyzenthlay (or a female character that takes on her role for the story), and the undermining plots of whoever gets to be Woundwart’s second-in-command. That could form your secondary main characters.

But it just keeps going from there, and each character is weighted differently. Toad can be an individual and important, but also can get shafted for another more important Toad (Toadette, Toadsworth), or simply suffice as a species, not an individual. Should he be considered main or minor? Dandelion is usually lorekeeper alongside being the fastest, but both of these roles have been divided and distributed to other rabbits (Bluebell and Blackavar respectively), calling into question his prominence. Kehaar tends to always appear, but he can be written around pretty easily. Similarly, Bowser sometimes relies on the Koopalings, but they can also be missing for something close to a decade without the blink of an eye. Who matters, who doesn’t? It depends on the audience, and their interests.

…

Honestly, I even tried breaking it down for the characters on each level, and I had a list spanning past 20 characters on each side. And I wasn’t even including everyone, but just the characters that I felt were important. Trying to mix and match them was even worse, to the point where it really couldn’t be done on a really fitting level.

Going by canon interpretations for both, I think you’ve got, at best:

Mario = Hazel

Luigi = Fiver

Bowser = General Woundwart

Peach = Hyzenthlay

Yoshi = Bigwig

That’s going by a core cast, with some additions to make sure the major-most of each group gets included. It’s not great either, for several reasons, since Bigwig and Yoshi do not have comparable personalities, but are both strong. Bowser’s also got redeeming qualities to him that actually earn him some sympathy points, whereas Woundwart…well, I think writers have tried, but he’s best as irredeemable and blatantly evil.

Personally, if I were to go maybe one extra level and include Daisy for main cast on the Mario side, I’d fit her to Bigwig, and instead equate Yoshi to Dandelion, as both of the latter two are known for speed, while the former two can be tough, but also caring as well. But I don’t feel that Dandelion and Daisy are as important to their franchises, whereas one could argue a little harder for Yoshi, and Bigwig is easily important to the story.

I even tried going on my fanfic interpretations (of at least the Mario characters) to see if that would line up better, but then that just screws up where the main villain connects. Because, that would instead look like:

Mario/Luigi = Hazel/Fiver

Bowser = Bigwig

Peach? = Hyzenthlay?

??? = General Woundwart

Because, based on how I’ve written them so far, Bowser’s even less of an evil force, and more motivated based on his heart and his people. This makes no one particularly equal to Woundwart. Conversely, Peach is a lot, well…she’s hardened. If one were to go by Hyzenthlay’s depiction in the Netflix miniseries, I’d wager that’s good enough. But this splits who Hyzenthlay is, so the character doesn’t quite feel whole. Oh, and Mario tends to be leader-like, but also has weird powers and visions going on, which helps Luigi step up into his role in his absence, so…they both have shades of Hazel and Fiver’s roles.

Furthermore, I get lost in my own biased interpretations of the fanfic I’m never writing for Watership Down, so that would make going down the rabbit hole a lot more terrifying. Well, for you reading this, anyway; I’d be thrilled to keep it going and gush about personalities in my head for the WD cast, lol.

So, that’s kind of how it goes in my mind. Yes, I’m positive there’s enough flexibility to go down each list and match up characters based on as much as possible for each side of them, or by ignoring some things. Mixing some canons together, you could get:

Mario = Hazel

Luigi = Fiver

Peach = Hyzenthlay

Daisy = Bigwig

Bowser = General Woundwart

Kamek = Vervain/Orchis/Whoever the schemer to Woundwart is

Yoshi = Kehaar

Toad = Pipkin/Bluebell

Toadette = Clover

Wario = Strawberry

Waluigi = Cowslip

Bowser Jr = Campion

Rosalina = Dandelion

Here, not only do these feel weirdly off when you look further into those characters, but it doesn’t really cover them properly, nor does it pick the best from the rosters of each. Yoshi’s kind of the foreign type to the core cast, so he connects well enough with Kehaar. This, however, chooses to ignore his famous speed that aligns him best with Dandelion, which instead relates his storytelling to Rosalina, because both tell stories, but that’s where their similarities end. We also choose to ignore Yoshi’s big appetite, which would connect best to Strawberry, putting the much less important Wario up to that role.

Similarly, this also confuses the interpretations on certain Watership Down characters based on how they’re depicted, and then sort of picks a Mario character that might connect. The easier one is Woundwart’s right hand scheming little twerp, which has been both Vervain and Orchis in the tv series and miniseries respectively. They work in a role similar to Kamek, a dutiful but terrified henchman.

It gets worse, though, when we hit something like Pipkin or Bluebell, as the latter was absent from the tv series, the former from the miniseries, and though both have some childish innocence to them, neither personality ends here for either. Toad, when he’s fleshed out as a standalone character, probably could be seen as innocent and childish, but I doubt he’s alone, and also has roles that elevate his mindset, which doesn’t quite make him on that same level.

Not to mention that some just don’t outright fit (Junior to Campion), but going that far along, that’s about all that works out well enough for characters that can be argued for their prominence.

…

Bottom line would be that, while I totally love both franchises and would like to put them on a equal level for comparisons, it doesn’t do either one justice.

All the same, thank you for the interest and the ask! It was fun thinking it over.

#askecho #art-and-word-dumpsite #character comparison #watership down #super mario bros #long post #mario #luigi #bowser #hazel #fiver #bigwig #peach #woundwart #princess peach #general woundwart #these do not equate #but it was still fun

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