#anti show sansa

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

We can learn a lot about D&D from these two quotes. The fact that one is demonized and protrayed as a narcissist (falsely) while the other is adored and praised.

Daenerys, who D&D decided to portray as cruel and descending into insanity from season 5 on, is written as acknowledging her suffering. However, she says that she endured by finding strength in herself. This view of her past shows how she understands that, while without her circumstances she wouldn't be where she is today, she knows it was unnecessary and awful. Her motivation for most of the show is ensuring that what happened to her doesn't happen to anyone else.

Sansa, on the other hand, outright thanks her abusers. It's one thing to acknowledge how one's trauma shaped you, but it's another thing entirely to thank those who harmed you. By thanking Littlefinger, Ramsay, and others, Sansa is basically saying that her past self needed to suffer in order to become useful. It's D&D basically saying that femininity and women in general need to suffer in order to become "strong".

By choosing to contrast how Dany and Sansa view their pasts and deciding to make Sansa the one the audience is meant to root for, D&D are condemning Dany's idea. They are saying that women shouldn't credit themselves for enduring trauma, rather they should be thankful to their abusers.

This is just one example for how Dany is punished for being active in her life and actively rebelling against her "place" as a woman. Sansa is passive and only acts out when helped by men until the very end of the show, when she has "earned" her active role. Even in her final ending, she asks a man, her brother, to be given the North. Dany takes the lead in her life as soon as she is able, and, even when she's Drogo's bridal slave, she learns how to gain some semblance of power over her life.

Dany is punished by the GoT narrative for being a proactive woman and choosing to condemn rather than thank her abusers. Sansa is rewarded for her passivity and thankfulness to her abusers. This an just one example of the underlying sexism in the show.

#daenerys targaryen #game of thrones #anti d&d #anti game of thrones #anti show sansa #sansa stark critical

[fromtheseventhhell]

It's crazy that people still uphold show!Sansa as a well-written character and pretend that liking her is the pinnacle of feminism when it would be infinitely more impactful to acknowledge her terrible and misogynistic writing. This is the same character who, while written by two men, was thankful for the abuse she suffered because it allowed her to grow. The same character who we had to be told was smart because the writers were too lazy to develop or show her intelligence. The same character who had to rely heavily on the men surrounding her and ended up accomplishing nothing on her own merit ( and no, thinking that she deserved to be Queen doesn't mean that she earned it). She is not well-written, she is not complex, and she is not a feminist character. Which is fine! If you enjoy her then good on you, but please stop pretending that she's something she isn't just because you feel the need to justify liking her character

#anti got #anti d&d #anti show sansa #anti sansa stans #like literally one of the worst written characters on that show because they tried so hard to make her the most important #while being entirely incompetent and their only method of doing so was to steal from other characters which ruined the plot #the only arguable achievement was defeating LF but even then it's written in the script that she had to go to Bran to explain things #/she rallied the Vale army!/ no she didn't 😭 she wrote a letter to LF and he did everything. instead of showing her arc in the Vale and #her learning about politics to rally them herself they took the quickest route to give her a /badass/ savior scene #which only ended up making her look selfish + power-hungry for putting her brothers' lives at risk for not telling anybody about said lette #and idiotic in the aftermath after relying once again on LF even though he was very obviously manipulating her #/pawn to player/ sounds catchy on paper but without seeing that growth/development it doesn't work #Arya was terribly written but at least we /saw/ her training in a way we never did with Sansa #and people try to apply this same logic to the books and think she's gonna suddenly spring forth as a political mastermind #when that's not how George writes...we see characters develop and make mistakes on page and get actual earned growth #feminism isn't defending the writing of two men who gave her a rape plot not in the books because they thought it was /interesting/ #when the only aspect of that plot they adapted was a woman suffering abuse :/ #and as per usual with stansas their only /evidence/ of her being well-written is accusing you of being misogynistic if you don't like her

[daenerystargaryen06]

Can antis like, keep away from Daenerys please?

I'm so tired of seeing people writing out crap that Daenerys will be the villain, Jon is better, she is mad, calling her Danielle, yada yada. Just say you don't like her (because she is ultimately better than your fave) and go.

I'm also tired of seeing people giving the Starks (especially Sansa) her traits. I've seen edits of people making Sansa a Targ, people talking about how she'll get Daenerys' dragons, that Jon will kill Dany for her, etc.

Just keep Daenerys' name out of your mouth if you hate her and can't stand that she is strong, independent, and has an amazing character arc. A majority of Daenerys fans don't like other asoiaf characters, but you hardly see any of them going on a tangent about how much they hate that character. Usually it's us Dany fans defending anti hate against Dany and also defending antis hate on Dany to prop up their own fave (mainly Sansa).

I heavily have a high disdain for show!Sansa (she's alright in the books, not my fave but she's much better compared to the garbage that is her show character). But I don't go out of my way to hate on her, diss her character, write pointless metas about her going "mad", "evil", or "dark". Nor do I see any other Dany fan doing so. We don't hate on Sansa to prop up Dany. We don't give Dany character traits of other characters/Sansa. We don't speculate about how she'll die or get killed or manipulated by another man. It's disgusting.

It's also disgusting seeing anti hate towards Arya. Arya is my second favorite female character in asoiaf. She isn't ugly, she isn't crazy or some violent murderer, she isn't going to be permanently warged into Nymeria and become Sansa's; nor is she going to become Sansa's assigned assassin to kill all her enemies while Sansa and Jon live in lala land. It's not going to happen.

It is so disgusting how a vast majority of Arya and Dany fans don't do half the things their antis/Sansa stans do, yet they go out of their way to bash these wonderful characters to prop up their own fave or to get them out of the way for Sansa or Jon (mainly Jon fans who bash Daenerys to prop Jon up and cheer Jon for killing her).

We can talk about our faves without bashing another character, making metas about them that don't even follow the text, and just being outright nasty.

Do better. Just keep away from Daenerys and Arya.

#daenerys targeryan #daenerys defence squad #daenerys stormborn #daenerys appreciation #daenerys targaryen #mother of dragons #pro daenerys targaryen #breaker of chains #khaleesi #team daenerys #arya stark #anti show sansa #anti sansa stans #anti jonsa #mad about Dany and Arya being better #keep their names out of your mouth if you hate them and move on #fandom discourse

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I still get irritated when I remember that ridiculous season 8 subplot of Sansa hating Dany.

Dany who postponed her war in order to come to the North and help save them from the Others. Dany who fought tooth and nails during the Winterfell battle.

That Dany being hated by little miss arrogance Sansa. The person who hided in Winterfell's crypts during the battle and never helped anyone but herself and yet had the audacity to lecture Dany how she should rule. As if she knew shit about it.

And D&D wanted to convince us that this xenophobic Karen was somehow more deserving to become ruler than Dany and Jon who dedicated their lives to serve their people. Yikes.

#anti got #anti show sansa #anti d&d #pro daenerys targaryen #Daenerys Targaryen

[whitedragonwolf4961]

You know I remembered something from Battle of the Bastards. Show Sansa was smirking as the Knights of the Vale destroyed Ramsay’s army. Smirking that is until she saw Jon alive. Then her smirk turned into a frown. Why? Shouldn’t she be happy that she arrived just in time to save her brother? Except… she didn’t tell Jon about the Knights of the Vale even though she kept insisting they need more men. And now she’s frowning seeing Jon alive. Why? What if it’s because she was hoping that he would die in the Battle, leaving her to get all the glory for herself? She already gave up on Rickon and didn’t seem bothered that he died. But she sure looked unhappy seeing Jon alive. Why? Well I now think it’s perhaps because she was hoping he would die too and that would leave her the only one around to get all the credit and glory for herself. If this is true… then she only saw Jon as a tool and was hoping he could be discarded. Imagine if I tell a Jonsa this. That Sansa only saw Jon as a tool and she was upset to see that he survived the battle and thus she wouldn’t get all the credit for winning.

#jon snow #anti jonsa #anti show sansa #she looked upset to see Jon alive #makes me think she was hoping he would die with Rickon #so she could get all the glory for herself #of course it was written awfully by two hacks #who wanted Sansa to be like Gandalf the White #anti d&d

[courtneyshortney82]

Weird that it isn't S@nsa isn't it???

#danaerys targaryen #anti sansa #anti show sansa #all hail dany #our girl deserved so much better

[abrideofdrogons]

every day stansas set up their fave :sob:

#anti got #anti show sansa

[asharaxofstarfall]

i do not like the dany and rhaenyra stans that hate on sansa and alicent for "bowing down to the patriarchy" and "not stopping their oppression". dany goes through a traumatic marriage at thirteen in which she is regularly raped to the point of contemplating suicide. she forces herself to love her husband and make him love her to spare herself more abuse. she then gets pregnant with his child and goes through a horrific birthing and loses her baby at only fourteen. this whole situation is very, very common for women in their society. the only difference is that daenerys gains three dragons at the end. they empower her and help her move forward to claim her 'birthright'. let's looks at sansa in comparison. she is sold off as a child bride at twelve years old. her betrothed arranges for her to be publicly stripped and beaten. she is then married to the son of the man that killed her brother. her new husband sexually assaults her on her wedding night, but does not rape her. pretty much every man that she encounters tries to sexually harass and assault her. she escapes her marriage and is now being groomed by her mothers childhood friend. she knows that his feelings and actions towards her are wrong, but he's all she has. sansa has to use "a womans courtesy and grace" to get herself out of potentially harmful situations. we also see this with dany's 'seduction' of drogo. the only difference is that sansa is never given dragons to protect herself like daenerys is. she still has to rely on herself. people call rhaeneryas dragon moments 'badass' and put alicent down for sticking to the patriarchy. alicent sticks up for herself by calmly telling her husband that he can take her daughter away from her when she is cold and dead in her grave. that is the only thing she can do in that situation, and its a a risky thing to say to her groomer, abuser and husband (who is also the king) but she still does it to protect her daughter. when alicent is feeling lost, she prays to the mother. when rhaenerya is feeling lost, she rides syrax. alicent and sansa (and even cersei) are not afforded with magic and fantasy to escape their abuse, they have to do the best they can with what little power the average noble woman is given in their society.

#this post is NOT anti dany or rhaenerya #it's just pointing out that certain stans put down women for not having magical creatures to empower them and stop their oppression lol #alicent and catelyn and cersei and sansa are all normal women in westoros #alicent hightower #pro alicent hightower #pro sansa stark #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #also I'm talking about book dany and sansa and show alicent and rhaenyra #house of the dragon #hotd #sansa stark

[montyluvsjasper]

Jonsa fans write 1000+ post of all the foreshadowing of Jonsa.

Jon and Sansa are structured in the story as the romantic leads respectively. Even Sansa antis have admitted the extreme parallels between Jon and “Alayne”. Jon Snow literally has dreams about burning people and thinks it's the most vile thing possible. Sansa wished/prayed for a strong knight to kill Janos Slynt, and Jon’s the one to do it. Jon dies trying to save who he thinks is Arya Stark.

No I don't care about your wolf howl, your blue rose or your Targaryen restoration.

#jonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #anti jonarys #anti house targaryen #jon snow is now never picking the family that has strong blood supremacy issues to the point of using his mother uncle and grandfather like #sub human pawns #youre not getting tickets to that show #rhaegar bred lyanna to death just like he tried to do is first wife #Dany BURNS people Jon was taught the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword #jon would rather be a stark bastard than a Targaryen prince in 100% of cases I assure you

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

TG stans and stansas rejoice in and ridicule women who get brutalized by their intimate partners, suffer traumatic miscarriages, lose almost all their children, and are murdered by a family member then turn around and cry about Helaena and Sansa's treatments in the fandom.

TG stans call Rhaenyra a fat whore, call her lazy for not riding a dragon into battle after a traumatic miscarriage (btw it takes 1-2 months to recover from a miscarriage), mock Visenya's death, and view the rest of Rhaenyra's children as subhuman. But when TB points out how Helaena and Aegon were both overweight in the book, talk about how Helaena went insane after B&C, and how she doesn't do much plot wise in either the book or show, they start bitching.

They complain about how people shouldn't target Helaena's weight, we should be sympathetic to her after her son is murdered, and she's really a victim so we should pity her not critique how little she does. Yeah, I agree, Helaena deserves sympathy for everything that happened to her, but so does Rhaenyra. But that doesn't matter to greenies, they just hate Rhaenyra so much that they'll act just as if not more awful than the misogynistic lords of Westeros.

Stansas will blame thirteen year old Dany for the crimes of her father, blame a bridal slave for the acts of her husband who bought her, call her a psychopath for not "properly" mourning her abusive brother who threatened to carve out her unborn baby, mock Rhaego's death, say she's a selfish person for freeing slaves, say she's a tyrant/horrible ruler for not perfectly dismantling a system built on millenia of slavery, mock her death, and theorize she'll turn into an mad tyrant based on nothing.

But if anyone criticized Sansa's portrayal on GoT, say she was being willfully ignorant in AGOT, talk about how she's persisting in her fantasies, critique how she acted in seasons 7/8, or theorize literally any ending for her character other than being qitn, they're sexist and hate all "feminine" women. They come up with the most horrible theories and write such hateful metas about Dany but then turn around and act like they and Sansa are the ones being victimized.

The shear hypocrisy of TG and Sansa stans is astounding, it's no wonder those parts of the fandom overlap so much. As long as they have their victims that they can project onto (Alicent/Helaena and Sansa), they're happy. But if anyone dares to criticize the characters or point out actual facts from the story, they turn around and bitch about how much we "hate their poor babies". It's just so frustrating seeing how much they hate and hate Rhaenyra and Daenerys yet reject anything that doesn't align with their ideas.

#rhaenyra targaryen #daenerys targaryen #anti team green #anti sansa stans #team black #house of the dragon #asoiaf #game of thrones #anti show sansa #sansa stark #helaena targaryen

[fromtheseventhhell]

Queen Sansa when Northmen start coming to her worried about their lack of resources

#anti got #anti d&d #anti show sansa #the North was struggling when they were part of the 7K they are NOT prepared to be independent #give it a year and they'll be overthrowing her and begging to rejoin the other kingdoms 😭 #and if the North was independent why would they even accept Sansa being declared Queen by Bran? #mind you they already had the chance to do so and chose Jon over her but they're going to accept her being chosen for them? no way #that show and it's logic was all over the place and so poorly thought out it's really nothing but a joke #it makes no logistical sense which was why they did that it the very end so they wouldn't have to deal with it

[daenerystargaryen06]

Jon Snow meeting Daenerys

Based on my rewatch of GoT with my friend, I found that I really don't like the meeting D&D created between Jon Snow and Daenerys. What could have been a monumental and great scene between two amazing characters meeting for the first time after going through all they did- it just pisses me off and feels bitter over the way D&D handled it.

My biggest gripe is the way they handled Jon going to Daenerys to ask for her help against the WW within the show. Not even ask, more like demand, without giving Daenerys anything in return.

Jon, when arriving within Dragonstone, knew that Daenerys had an ongoing war occurring against Cersei. Daenerys was declaring herself Queen of the 7k, she was vying for the throne, and was obviously going to war against Cersei for said throne. War is never easy. Dealing with Cersei (mainly within the show) wasn't going to be a cake-walk (mainly because Tyrion was written as the sympathetic man who needed to 'keep Daenerys' temper in check and give her crap for plans'). Jon knows that wars take up time, require heavy focus and planning, need men and resources, etc. yet he decides to ask Daenerys to drop her war against Cersei and help him fight against magical walking dead creatures that exist on the other side of the Wall without giving Daenerys anything in return.

This is not how any sort of politicking works. Jon can't just waltz in and expect Daenerys to drop her war against Cersei (someone Jon knows is a crazed lunatic who wants his family dead and anyone else that she considers her enemy and the North under her rule) just because he states that these magical walking dead men exist without bringing proof nor giving Daenerys something in return for what he wants.

Jon also knows that the people of Westeros aren't going to believe in the WW just because he says they exist. This was shown even in the first episode of season 1 when Ned executes a deserter from the Night's Watch who said the WW returned and nobody believed him! Tyrion and many other characters referred to the WW as nothing but 'grumpkins' and 'snarks'. Hell, even Jon himself didn't believe the WW's existence until he got attacked by one himself. This is lazy writing on D&D's part. Having a character miraculously think his word alone would convince others (especially a Queen who he needs the help of) that the WW exist without any form of proof or giving something in return for their help, and somehow 'forgetting' all the experience he went through of people discounting the WW existing from the very first season despite them having returned.

This just made Jon appear incompetent, forgetful, and demanding.

I also dislike this scene for the implication it gives- 'poor Jon Snow needs to convince the arrogant Dragon Queen that the WW exist and are a threat to humanity'. Let's be real here. Nobody else knows the WW exist, especially not Daenerys who lived a majority of her life within Essos (excluding book!Dany that is- due to her dream of riding into battle against the Others upon the Trident). Daenerys has a perfectly viable reason not to trust what Jon is saying, nor to suddenly drop her war against Cersei just because he demands her help, especially when he doesn't give anything in return for her! This man deadass looked Daenerys in the eye and basically said: "Yeah, I need you to drop your war with Cersei, come North and give all your power into helping me fight against dead men that nobody else believes in. Oh, and I don't have anything to give you in return, and I won't bend the knee because idk you. K, thanks."

This was obviously very poor negotiation which would definitely not happen within the books. D&D made Dany more hardened, and the way they framed the scene with her and Jon made it seem like they wanted to further play into the slow descent of attempting to pit the audience against her. I have seen people say that Daenerys was too 'arrogant' and 'egotistical' in this scene with Jon due to the way D&D framed the interaction and characters within this. Not to mention the fact that afterwards they had Tyrion be the one to start negotiations with Jon for his alliance AFTER his dumb plans costed Dany her allies in the first place. When we all know book!Dany to be politically savvy, intelligent, and a negotiator/compromiser. It just painted Daenerys in a bad light overall. Even for show!Dany, how do people seriously expect her to be willing to immediately agree to Jon, drop her entire campaign against Cersei, go North, and give her power for some random man that comes to her and says 'magical walking dead men exist and I need your help to fight them' without having a compromise/input from Jon for her aid? The ONLY thing Daenerys wanted from Jon was for him to bend the knee and acknowledge her as Queen, and she would have helped him.

And let's be honest here- I get that the North fought for their freedom and such but that was only due to Cersei and the Lannister's after Ned's execution. There was the quote from the show- "it was the dragons we bowed to." Now dragons are back. Jon admitted that even just after meeting Daenerys she was better than Cersei. He should have been willing to bend the knee to Daenerys, as she had agreed to fight for the North and help Jon if he did so, giving him the aid of her armies and dragons. The showrunners did this stupid parallel between Jon and Mance Rayder. Mance refused to bend the knee to Stannis even if it'd help his people, with Jon asking him- "isn't their survival more important than your pride?". They then did the same with Jon refusing to bend the knee even if it'd help his people, and Daenerys asking him the same thing. This parallel is unneeded, and only showed Jon as being incompetent, as he had that experience with Mance and should've known that pride doesn't get you anywhere when you're a ruler over others lives and need help.

Also- I doubt the North would last long being independent from the other Kingdoms. Limited resources with a coming winter on top of it all after a war against the Bolton's? No way Jon or Sansa could think that would ever work in the North's favor for it to be independent in the long run. Especially with the war against the dead that was yet to come.

I swear it was like the writers had Jon drink stupidity juice for this entire thing and thought 'wow. This is really something. Our best writing yet.' over that horrendous scene. My sanity cannot take it.

#daenerys targeryan #daenerys defence squad #daenerys stormborn #daenerys targaryen #daenerys appreciation #mother of dragons #pro daenerys targaryen #breaker of chains #khaleesi #team daenerys #team dany #anti d&d #anti game of thrones #anti show sansa #anti show!jon #clowns gonna be clowns #that scene was so crappy and for what #i hate d&d

[la-pheacienne]

Y'all. Probably the most UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED criticism against grrm is the abundance of gratuitous extreme sexual violence against women in asoiaf. GoT doubled down on that and is endlessly criticized for that. On the ONE (1) INSTANCE where sexual violence was NOT part of a female character's arc in grrm's work, HotD decided to introduce it as a means of giving "nuance" to a story and making a character more sympathetic. And now not only is this not considered a sexist narrative but on top of that you call this an inspired twist ffs I'm gonna eat my hair

#like there is no way to be so unserious guys #just decide #i can't believe we have been trashing GoT for centuries now for the exact same thing we are appreciating in HotD right now #'HotD is different' really? Where? #because of the lesbian drama? WOW #Is it based on shock value? yeah #does it have gratuitous violence? yeah #does it have MORE gratuitous violence than the author? YEAH #does it use rape as a means of sympathizing with a character like in Show!Sansa's case #which was THEN considered Oh So Problematic for some reason? #YEAH #asoiaf #fire and blood #anti hotd #aspa rambles #forever mad

[alicentes]

Alicent Hightower 🤝 Sansa Stark

Having their book counterparts agency stripped away from them and unnecessary scenes of SA being written for them instead

#sansa stark #anti hotd #asoiaf #anti game of thrones #alicent hightower #i heard that there was a scene written foe s2 where alicent is raped during blood and cheese and i am LIVID #first you take away her agency then humiliate her w the foot SA scene then want to add in rape as a punishment? fuck you #olivia apparently refused to do it and matt and emma backed her up in a meeting so good for them hopefully this scene is not a thing #also the fact that it was written by a woman and this show is supposed to be more feminist than GOT makes me sick theyre just as bad as d&d #ad for sansa i am referring to the ramsey plot which went on for an entire season with her politically savvy storyline scrapped

[abrideofdrogons]

i feel like there's a lot to unpack here. i thought it was satire but after reading the comments i do not think its satire. "annoying arya minion" ok bestie 😭

#anti got #anti sansa stans #the comment section was a jumpscare & a half #“people criticizing sansa for being 11” at some point she was no longer 11 during the run of the show so

[gh-0-stcup]

It's tough being in the ASOIAF fandom while hating both Jonsa and Jonerys.

#and also loving both sansa and daenerys #most of their fans on tumblr seem to ship them with jon #and also like to write essays bashing the other character #and their fans #it's rough and one of the things i hate most about the show is how the fandom on tumblr has been reduced to a years long ship war #anti jonerys #anti jonsa #it'd be nice to see book theories that aren't based around one of these ships again #asoiaf