#belos is just im going to MURDER you AND your witch! | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

captainmera · 4 months

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Andddd speaking of you going into the philosophies of it all that’s exactly what I’m going to do!! (THIS IS REALLLY LONG IM SO SORRY you don’t have to get to it right away)

One corner of philosophy that I enjoy is free will and determinism. Determinism is basically the opposite of free will; it’s the idea that every event, decision and action is determined by a chain of prior occurrences.

I think determinism is really important within The Owl House, especially regarding Luz’s guilt about helping Belos, and with how you are writing ttocw.

Let me talk about Belos/Philip for a bit.

One thing that comes to my mind when thinking about your interpretation of the Wittebanes is the case of Leopold and Loeb. I would recommend looking it up if you would like, it’s as tragic as it is fascinating, but to sum it up two boys committed murder hoping to demonstrate superior intellect, which they believed would allow them to commit the “perfect crime” without consequences.

Im not trying to compare these guys to Caleb and Philip or connect them to each other in any way, it’s the defense their lawyer made that’s important. (It’s said that by the end of his speech the court room was quiet and the judge was weeping openly.)

Clarence Darrow, the lawyer, attempted to show that the boys were helpless victims of heredity and environment. In other words, the deterministic ideas of Nature and Nurture. Nature refers to the biological/genetic factors that impact one’s traits. For example, you have no free will over your eye color, but this idea goes a lot deeper than just physical appearance. Nurture is one’s upbringing, their environment, experiences etc. and how they impact you and your choices.

Both of these affecting your decisions would be something like: you walk into an ice cream shop. You can’t get anything with nuts because you are allergic (nature), and people have told you how good this one flavor is (nurture) so you think you will go with that.

It’s not really as simple as that however, a lot of the things you do can be traced back to one of the two, or both. What does this have to do with the Wittebanes?

You are writing Philip as a perfect example of how nurture changes someone. How the simplest actions, even the ones that seem the most insignificant, have effect on a person. Especially how these things that happen to Philip when he was just a kid will turn him into Belos in the long run. That mask he wore that Caleb said could trick witch’s? He wore it for hundreds of years in the isles. The ideas and politics and religion he grew up with influenced the way he created his empire, raised Hunter, spoke about the Titan, etc.

I believe Caleb has spoken about how he feels somewhat at fault for the way Philip turned out, and he’s not wrong. But then you begin to ask why Caleb acted the way he did to Philip, then who or what was the cause of those actions, and it will keep spiraling until the whole world is to blame for the actions of one man, and you can’t blame the world for the hurt and suffering of so many people.

I think that’s when I start to wonder about Hunter, he was influenced and raised to believe what he did was right, but so did Philip. Hmmm personally I think it’s whether or not you can come to the realization that what you are doing or did is wrong and hold yourself accountable for your actions. But even then there is still the people you hurt and it’s not up to you whether they will forgive you or not. I just love thinking about these kinda things

But one thing I know for certain is that Luz should not be beating herself up over helping Belos.

Because if Luz never taught him the light glyph then there would be no collector, no emperor belos, no emperors coven. Sure, I can understand her guilt, she was the one that put his plan into motion.

But if there was no emperors coven then Lilith would never have cursed her sister, never causing her to run off and find the portal door. No portal door means Luz would have never walked into the demon realm. But she did, meaning she has, at the time, already taught him the glyph. It was always going to happen, there was no way around it.

Not only that, but I’m sure Belos knew. I’m sure he knew all of this. Why else would Lilith be able to keep her palisman, because without it she would have (most likely) never risen in ranks, never become as powerful as she was. Never ultimately betraying the coven in favor of her sister. Never ending up at the Owl House on that fateful day when Flora Desplora planted the idea of the time pools in her head. Would have never gone back in time with Luz, met Philip. Never taught him the light spell.

I’m sure Lilith joining the coven must have been some sort of realization for Belos. I’m sure he recognized her face, as unlikely as it sounds, but he remembered Luz. He for sure could have stopped Luz and the rest from getting away after she blew up the portal door, but he didn’t. If you look up the hollow mind paintings you can see them in (I’m pretty sure) chronological order, and there is one of him standing in front of a smirking Flora, undoubtedly sending her off to plant the idea of the time pools in Lilith’s head.

But what I don’t think Belos understands is that it wasn’t him manipulating the situation. It was an act of fate. There was no free will in any of this. Luz was always going to step through that door, and always going to teach him the glyph. I would say that she has nothing to be guilty about but I can understand why she still would be. Even if she never had any say in what was going to happen she did still end up causing a lot of people to get hurt. The thing she needs to get is that it was the actions of Belos that caused people to get hurt, her actions were a factor in what happened, sure, but she had no control over what was happening, and it wasn’t her that actively went out and hurt people 😭😭😭 I just want her to be happy shoajsjakaja

If this gets deleted somehow I swear

I don't really have anything to add! this was really cool to read!

But I will add that, yes! That is an interest of mine (nurture vs nature) and an intention I have with Philip. I think it's an interesting puddle of grey to pat my feet into when writing complex villains/antagonists/conflicts. I enjoy exploring greyness in characters in general! So you're spot on there.

#toh ask #tgb ask #tgb au #tgb #ttocw #ttocw ask #long ask #long text #text post #toh philip #philip wittebane #interesting!

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ryderdire · 2 years

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I think it would be funny if the titan could and does commucate with Belos and Belos just ignores it

Titan: the coven system is shit

Belos: the titan says the coven system is the only true way of life

Titan:HOW THE FUCK DID YOU GET THAT FROM THE COVEN SYSTEM IS SHIT

Titan: please don’t kill another child for fun

Belos: the titan says that you are a wild witch so you have to die

Titan:do you Even pay attention to what I say

Titan: i like This luz kid she gets it

Belos: I’m going to murder her

Titan:why are you like this

Titan:Belos im begging you please don’t kill the women who raised my son please

Belos: lol okay

Titan:really?!

Belos: ill turn her to stone in a public execution instead so your son has to watch

Titan: phillip i swear To me.

#ryders rambles #shitpost #the owl house #king the owl house #the Titan Toh #Toh #toh spoiler #toh spoilers

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cosmosees · 1 year

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I can't think of any specific question but I just really wanna know about the epithet erased toh au. I love both of those things so much.

lucky for you i love talking about both of those things! typing this on mobile tho so im sorry if the formatting is weird

so for starters the epithet characters are going to the isles from their home universe- i havent figured exactly how or why and im vaguely saying another inscribed did it for now. i dont really care about semantics in these sorts of aus usjfjs. they get sent in intervals and end up with different members of the cast.

molly arrives first and, on instinct, think she's trapped in another of lorelai's dream bubbles. she tries to dumb her way out of bonesborough but comes to realize that all of this is. VERY real. hunter realizes there's another human on the isles and thinks, "oh! this'll make my uncle who doesnt hate me happy! come with me!". molly freaks out and runs, and is saved by the bell (the bell being luz with an invisibility glyph.) and taken to the owl house. she explains her situation to everyone there and is allowed to stay until they can figure out how to get her home. she doesnt explain epithets because she doesnt know it would be necessary to do so

sylvie lands in the isles next. he tries his best to adapt to the lifestyles present, wearing his hood up to cover his ears. hes eventually found by raine who takes him in with the batts, and hes GOING to narc on their rebellion before the scope of whats going on is revealed. he like VERY upsettedly resigns himself to a life of crime and manages to nab a palisman from the emperor's reserves (antics occuring with guards all the while involving sleep powder and beefton). he's undercover as the Black Sheep Witch and wearing a cloak to protect his identity pretty quick after raine picks him up. they end up getting on. raine thinks hes a very bright young man :)

giovanni's up next- this is post prison of plastic so he's in vincent murder persona now. as soon as he arrives he starts a scene in bonesborough and ends up being captured by the emperor's coven (not without a fight! nobody on the isles knows what a tomato tastes like so they buy into the lav-acid stuff). when sylvie learns hes caught in the conformitorium hes like UGH. and when raines like oh theres another human staying with eda now do you know her (shows a pic) hes like UGH. he busts giovanni out and since raine cant really be. directly involved with eda sylvie has to drop gio off there. they have a long conversation on the palisman-ride over where they learn to respect each other a little more before sylvie lets gio off and asks him not to tell molly that hes here as well. itd cause more trouble than its worth. then giovanni and molly have a tearful reunion after he almost gets torn asunder by hooty

mera and indus take on a more minor role but when mera arrives shes in TERRIBLE pain and there is NO modern medicine afoot. indus has to run off and search for a healer and ends up finding emira, who heals mera and offers to let the two of them stay in amity's little room in the library. they do this, amity passes the message onto luz that there are more humans in the library, and them and molly/giovanni almost kill each other before they come to an agreement and truce until they can get home. mera gets that sweet sweet healing magic while shes here too- obviously it wont get rid of her epithet (which isnt something she wants in the first place) but having your broken bones be this fixable is REALLY nice, especially in a place that loves to break bones at every turn

trixie and phoenica land next. hunter actually manages to get them to belos this time because phoenica is nice and trixie will go along with her for stuff, and when they get to the throne room philly boy lies through his teeth about how Cool And Awesome his plans for the day of unity are and how they can stay with him until theyre able to get home. phoenica is really excited and trixie. uh.

trixie can see the ghost of every single grimwalker AND caleb surrounding philip's throne. they wave off concern when philip asks her abt it but caleb KNOWS she can see them, and follows her back to her room. trixie wants nothing to do with dou rebellion plans and is already scared as is but caleb does not leave her alone because they are the ONLY PERSON HERE who can see him. he becomes her weird anarchist ghost uncle and they end up feeding information to the batts through sylvie (very hard to keep that part under wraps because of the whole. phoenica future husband thing)

ANNND finally lorelai shows up and manages to pretty successfully assimilate with witch society because of augment. gives herself pointed ears dresses up as a witch. she manages to get heckled into a coven and a sigil (she joins illusions) without realizing what this entails, and since augment already has to do with illusions she doesnt notice anything weird happening. when she and molly meet again itll be REALLY fun

i dont have too much in the way of specific episodes plotted out in full but i WILL say that molly is present for hollow mind...do with that what you will

#cosmo.txt #epithet erased #ee #toh #the owl house #sorry i gave you so much anon i have like NOWHERE else to put these

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mdhwrites · 1 year

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One of the problems that ive noticed with TOH is its odd morality. By this i mean it has a very specific way of redeeming its characters, i dont have a word for it other than scapegoating.

For Amity, it was 'yes i am pretty horrible... but look! its my parents fault i ditched Willow! and look how horrible Boscha is! focus on that so i can be redeemed.'

For Lilith, it was 'yes i tried to murder a child and cursed my sister... but look! its Belos' fault for being so evil and manipulative! i deserve redemption now!'

For Alador, it was 'yes i went along with my childs abuse for years and even had a semi active role at some points.... but look! my wife is suddenly cartoonishly evil and i cant be blamed for anything all of a sudden!'

For Hunter, it was 'yes im working with a horrible man and i do anything he says, even killing innocent endangered creatures...! But look! my evil uncle Belos was abusing me so i cant be all bad!.'

Ok you probably get the point. when you notice it it becomes actively impossible to ignore and instead of wanting to explore motivations and actual growth, the show just shoves the blame onto someone else and everyone eats it up. Heck, ive seen Boscha be characterised as or called an actual S//ual Ab/ser in this fandom. Shes a Fourteen year old spoiled bully. not satan reinincarnated.

*screams bloody murder at the Boscha stuff* What sucks is I've seen and heard about those too. Actually, between seasons 1 and 2, people were so adamant about Odalia being more evil than Belos that it made me do a whole blog about the complexity of high society characters and the Blight Family's potential. All of which went to waste... As a note, if you read that blog and go "I want THAT Blight family," A: Little Miss Rich Witch and B: I have a 300k word TOH fic that has that Blight family. Getting back on track though... I agree. Just kind of in general. It's actually something I somewhat touched on in my Raine blog that some characters will feel like they exist in order to help others with their 'arcs'. Willow is the most blatant of these because it took until SEASON 3 to get an episode that's supposedly about her to ACTUALLY be about her. Before then, every episode that is supposedly hers is just used to push another character's arc forward. In S1 it's Amity every time. In S2 it's Hunter. It's part of why she never is doing anything with plants or magic, the things you think she might from the beginning, but other interests that keep getting tacked onto her so that she's doing something these other characters can interact with. And it's really bad because it's blatant that she doesn't have a plan for her or arc because she only exists when she can push another character forward. But calling these 'arcs' also feels incredibly disingenuous when you look at the larger scale of TOH. I mean, how long do any of those depictions EXIST before being replaced by "Going soft on me Blight?" "Mad but Sad Boy," "Cool Aunt Lilith" etc.? I mean... by the time each of those lines happens, the character is already a good person. Period. And questionably for any real reason in the cases of Hunter and Lilith, as neither really do much self reflection and all it seems to take with Hunter is "Pretty girl mad at me." Yes it's more complicated than that but if they'll simplify a child soldier becoming a good character to ONE PERSON SHOWED ME KINDNESS and BAM instant good guy, I'll simplify what the fuck happened. It causes them to feel like... Well, second introductions to the characters. Versions of them that just don't have the backstory and bad deeds of the past one. That's why phrase I use "Your arc seems more dramatic if the character starts OUT OF CHARACTER," straight up calls them OOC. Because by the time their 'arc' is finished, they feel like an entirely different character. Not only that but the show will work HARD like you pointed out to make you just... forget about the character's canonical history. Replace it with enough excuses or contradictory information and can you really judge them? Yes. Yes I can. Because they still did those things. I can just judge the show as a bad writer too then.

#TOH #Rambles

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pizzaboat · 3 years

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So I've seen alot of people give their theory's and opinions on what's going to happen to Lilith in season 2 of the owl house, whether or not she's forgiven, where she's going to stay and how she'll act I guess, and the major thing being if she's redeemed or how redeemed she is.

I'm just going to throw my own thoughts out there and say that obviously there's still alot to do with her character. I also have no intention of bashing her character, I actually enjoy when she's on screen. I do like her but she's still problematic. So buckle up this is a long one.

To get my thoughts straight I'll break what I have to say down into parts, cause I get distracted easily.

First up im going to say I think she is far from redeemed. My impression of her is that she regrets cursing her sister, but she also finds some sort of sick pride in it too, as shown in agony of a witch when she screams " then why were you so easy to curse!?".

She also has no problem hurting literal children to get what she wants either, but that's another issue I'll discuse.

Lilith seems to resent her younger sister to an extreme, unhealthy degree. I could sit here and theorise about her child-hood and teen years wondering what could have created such insecurities in her, but im not going to. That is irrelevant to the point im trying to make. What's important to keep in mind though is that she was "perfect prissy Lilith"- the covention growing up, Eda was good at almost everything, and that Lilith cursed Eda to secure a spot in the emperors coven when Lilith was 18-19 and Eda was 16-17.

Is she redeemed ?

No i don't think she is even half way there. She cursed Eda in her sleep to win a fight. Lied for over thirty years to Eda about that curse. Mocked Eda for the symptoms of a curse she put on her "Why don't you go home and rest wouldn't want you breaking hip"- sense and insensitivity . she kidnapped Luz to use her against her sister, used Luz as a human meat shield in her and Eda's battle during agony of a witch, was generally quite rude to Luz when she wasn't dangling her over a pit of spikes, and also SPIKES.

Taking on half of a curse she put on her sister in the first place doesn't begin to cover the trauma and pain she's caused in the name of healing her sister, enforcing the emperors laws and joining said emperors coven.

I would also like to point out that she had a way to elevate her sisters pain all this time but she didn't. I've seen arguments like she trusted the emperor to heal her sister but I can already point out so many things wrong with that.

even if she did trust him, no normal person could sit by and watch any family member they claim to care about suffer, if she trusted the emperor so much she would have split the curse sooner, (providing Eda would have let her of course) and had him heal her or Eda both.

But she didn't do that she lied to her sister for years, partly because she was scared of losing Eda and also Eda's reaction which was, and would always be unbridalled rage. but also to an extent it suited her, it suited her to be the successful sibling, the sibling doing things "right" Lilith seems to be as I said before extremely insecure, and I think that just going off the episodes she was in and the impression the show puts forward.

If what I've noticed is correct, Lilith has spent her life in her sisters shadow, bullied in school as revealed in the end of something ventured something framed, nobody took her seriously due to her appearance and probably being a late bloomer in a lot of ways. She would have jumped at the chance to be given the same respect that Eda and other talented witches or well off, higher up witches recieved.

In other words the emperors coven fed Liliths' battered ego, telling her what she wanted to hear.

It makes sense that she wouldn't want to let that go, but in the context of what has happened and the fact she seemed to still try and stick with the emperors coven before Belos sent her to be executed along with eda and king.

She isn't redeemed, she probably doesn't see much wrong with how she's behaved up until now(besides cursing Eda) and there's still alot of work for her to do. She only split half the curse because her expulsion from the coven forced her to address a mistake she made for once.

Season 2 and maybe more seasons looks like where she'll be earning her redemption. Hopefully she'll be forced to face more of her flaws and short comings and work on them.

Will she be forgiven?

Lilith from what has been shown has hurt;

Eda Luz, King, Amity, Willow and Gus. They all have different reasons to be hostile towards her.

Eda

She cursed Eda and almost subjected her to a faith worse than death, lied to her, mocked her. Kidnapped her apprentice and almost got Luz killed a number of times,using her as a sheild. She dragged Luz into the whole messed up rivalry. I don't think Eda will forgive her emediatly, after all, even if she can forgive Lilith for what she did to her, she would also have to forgive her for what she did to Luz.

She essentially kidnapped Edas' surrogate daughter, Eda was much angrier about Luz's suffering than her own "you hurt luz, you cursed me. before anything turns me to stone I'm going to tear you apart!" - young blood, old souls

Yeah Eda was fit to murder her sister, taking some of the curse probably only got rid of her homicidal desire towards Lilith, thats it.

Luz

I've seen some people make fan content in which Luz immediately forgives Lilith or comes round eventually to her when Lilith acts nice around the house.

That seems super out of character for Luz, sure Luz is characterised to be kind and sweet but if the final proves anything its that she has a ruthless streak that comes out when she tries to protect the people she loves, her family. Lilith has threatened the people she cares about. I don't see Luz letting that slide, and she would probably still be on guard. Luz may have accepted her help in young blood old souls, but that was only because she wanted to save Eda she told Lilith she didn't like her "whole deal" and she meant it.

Lilith would have to prove she's really changed for the better for luz to begin to for give her.

King

I like the idea of King and Lilith becoming friends simply for comedy perposes, if King were to forgive her and I think he'd be one of the closest to it out of the main characters.

They'd be a force of sheer stupidity and ego they'd be bad and good for each other, King weirdly enough would be more emotionally mature since he's learned things like you can't be posesive over people in really small problems it's a lesson Lilith needs to learn since she seems to resent Luz to an extent, thinking Luz was taking her sister from her "Edalyn is with her family, her real family. Go back to your world human this one is ours" - agony of a witch

Of course before this she needs to also earn his forgiveness, he wasn't there for agony of a witch but he did experience the fear and worry of losing eda in young blood, old souls the only person he had up until then was Eda " King and I, we don't have much in this world. we only have each other"- A lying witch and a Warden. Lilith helping rescue Eda might have helped improve his opinion of her, but Lilith would have to get over herself first to begin her redemption.

Hooty

I don't think Hooty would hold a grudge, mostly because he's comic relief and weird. Since I personally think no one in the owl house would be bothering with her, and I see her being forced to live In the shed. I think Hooty would be her only company and I think it would be unexpected and really funny if he's the first person/bird thing to open her eyes to her awful behaviour. You gotta start somewhere and Hooty is it.

Amity, Gus and Willow

I think Gus and Willow will be stand-offish until Luz and King forgive Lilith.

Once Lilith has developed more as a person she owes Amity an apology for how she behaved as a teacher. Amity would be mad after the covention episode, but almost killing her crush would make her protective of Luz, and wary of her in general.

Conclusion

Lilith hasn't been redeemed in my opinion, there's still alot of growth she needs to go through, she's made alot of terrible mistakes and decisions, its what makes her so interesting. I like her but she's a sh*t person, but she can learn to be less of a sh*t person.

I'm aware this is a kids show and she probably won't get all this development or she could get different character development and that would be awesome, its just my thoughts and opinions and I'm really excited for season 2.

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