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larnax · 1 year

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finally managed to rewrite a version of thronés story i actually like

first we have to decide what thronés story is like. about. on a material “what happens in the story” level and then on the thematic level of why those things happen. right now i think thronés story is probably supposed to be about getting freedom and something something family abuse but what actually happens is throné trying to get this weird collar off which she does by performing a very convoluted paternity test she didnt even know she needed to do until halfway through the story and its About how fucked up it would be if this one weird horny guy had too many kids that he was evil to. that sucks ass so we’re gonna change it. im fine with the “what happens” being throné trying to get her collar off, i actually think it works pretty well as a way to symbolize her being trapped in the blacksnakes and you can do a lot of interesting things with the degree to which her metaphorical collar even can come off the way a physical collar can, so thats what the story is actually gonna be About. the focus of the story should be on the conflict between thronés desire for freedom and a Normal Life and the fact that shes never Had that and the life shes had instead is extremely difficult to get out of

the single biggest problem with thronés story is that i cant emphasize this enough at the finale it suddenly nosedives into her being told about her biological family history and then needing to go on a quest to find this one random fucking dude who she has never met before and who is so blatantly evil he might as well just be a generic villain and then she has to kill him and then the story immediately ends. its not ‘bittersweet’ because im still feeling whiplash from a completely different story busting in at the last minute and the story claude is from is so morally simple(should this evil immortal rapist be killed? yeah, probably???) that it literally cant be bittersweet because it was definitely good that he died and throné has no reason to care about him

i understand that ot2 wants to have the character’s stories all tie into the postgame(except agnea lol) and honestly i dont even hate the idea of taking the theme of grooming her story has and giving that exaggerated form in this immortal organization but for the love of fucking god the leader needs to actually be a part of the story before the eleventh hour and it makes me insane that hes not because its so so so fucking obvious: Father. you know, Father? that guy who was introduced in chapter one and who throné actually has an established relationship with and who has actually been the one grooming her for her entire life before the story? why the fuck is the climax of his death preceded by a confusing and boring account of his relationship with thronés biological mother who she never knew who cheated on him with a complete stranger all of which happened before throné was born and that she did not know about until just now and is mostly irrelevant because it doesnt change her relationship with him at all because she just kills him. what is going on where am i.

so the first thing i would do in a rewrite of thronés story is remove the question of who thronés biological family is entirely. it doesnt matter and in fact actively makes the story weaker. what matters to throné and ideally the player is the people who raised throné who she considers her family and who she actually has a relationship with. even though Father is now an immortal who created the blacksnakes hes not biologically related to the children because thats stupid im sorry its just dumb.

he created a gang of children the normal way by taking in poor children who don’t have anywhere else to go and don’t have anyone to miss them with the promise of a place in the world and food/board with the caveat that they work for the parents Forever. this also means that some of the blacksnakes believe theyre in the organization by choice, or that this is the best option for them(will be relevant for mira), and are willing to accept the treatment not just because of the collars but because of the metaphorical collar of poverty. none of this even needs to be outright said & in fact i would significantly prefer that it exists almost entirely in the inquire/etc options for npc blacksnakes and the player is allowed to simply pick this up through characters who act as if its true. throné specifically will have joined the blacksnakes because she was drawn in by the idea of having a family and a place in the world as a kid who was starving to death in the streets of fucking uhh idk i play in spanish whatever Sotoburgo is. this does not need to be established in a flashback, it can be established entirely through simple mentions about how the blacksnakes saved her life and then the player can just recognize what’s going on.

Mother still exists and is still the primary antagonist of chap 1-2 while Father exists sort of in the background, but she needs to have the simplistic evil turned down just a tiny bit. as it is the blacksnakes’ familial structure feels really shallow because Mother is all vinegar no honey. the mafia boss who is very rewarding and affectionate with well-performing underlings and simultaneously cruel with under-performing underlings is both another character who can just exist and the player will like Get It almost instantly, but is also much closer to how a lot of abusive mothers work. oh also uhhh im. replacing pirro with mira entirely. sorry pirro but mira is the second most interesting character in the story and i want to give her more screentime. mira is Mother’s golden child, shes younger than throné and kind of bad at her job but Mother insists on sending her on jobs with throné anyway and blames her if things go wrong, so when the diamante job goes sideways and one of their crew dies and also they fail to recover the objective Mother does the whole whipping her in front of everyone thing and then demands that she go and singlehandedly complete the mission, which Mother clearly considers to be a suicide mission to do solo right after a failed attempt when the place will be crawling with guards, but throné has no choice to accept it because, you know. collar. so throné goes and tries to stealthily infiltrate the diamante manor and manages to recover it but what then? why, it’s mira! mother has trusted her with her first ever assassination, and it’s to make sure that even if throné makes it to the objective alive, she doesn’t make it out of the manor. throné fights mira and wins, but when mira realizes she might die she begins pleading for her life and throné can’t bring herself to kill her so she flees the manor and decides that her quest to leave the blacksnakes begins Right Now. on her way out of town she’s “ambushed” by Father, who came to congratulate her for successfully making it out of diamante because he knew she would be able to complete a mission no other blacksnake could. throné is conflicted between feeling good that he’s proud and knowing that shes gotta get the fuck out of here and feeling just a little bit incompetent for not being able to kill mira(she doesnt say any of this explicitly, she thanks him for praising her and hes kinda like ‘cmon champ say it like you mean it’ and throné thinks ‘but i dont’). he leaves and throné thinks about her objective— she needs to remove the collar, so she needs the keys from Mother… and Father. she knows that at this time of year Mother goes to visit the orphanage in Sotoburgo she uses as a front for educating and taking in young blacksnakes.

she arrives in Sotoburgo and sees. well look who it fucking is, mira! a normal blacksnake wouldve been executed for failing an assassination(throné was definitely going to be executed either way which is why she needed to leave immediately, this is unstated but you can guess), but mother’s golden child rides again. throné disguises herself as a nun and sneaks into the orphanage to find that mira has been brought with Mother as a punishment for failing the mission, where shes being treated as a child. throné walks in shortly before mira is used as an example to the children of what happens if they fail to succeed in their duties and shes whipped. after that Mother leaves to go to the garden and throné pursues her but when she gets to the garden Mother reveals that she knew it was throné the whole time and mira steps out of the shadows, Mother reveals that mira was spared from execution on the condition that she helps Mother eliminate throné now, there’s a double battle where mira protects Mother but after throné overpowers them both and knocks mira out Mother also begins pleading for her life and uses the fact that she spared mira to prove that throné is actually very kind and all this will be forgiven if she just— and then throné stabs her and as Mother’s dying shes like “damn.. you really are your father’s daughter…” and throné is like ah. the agonies. anyway then mira recovers and realizes mother’s dead and does the whole “SHES ALL I HAD” thing and that shes really gonna kill throné this time Youll See and throné tells her that shes clearly not meant for the blacksnakes either but that the next time they meet, it’s kill or be killed. mira asks throné what other options does she think she has(even if you get the collar off, what will you do then? do you really think you can live a normal life?) and throné… cant answer her. she leaves. Father ambushes her again on the way out and tells her that hes proud of her for killing Mother, and asks her to go on a job with him. throné agrees, and he leaves. throné wonders if this really is all somehow part of his plan

thronés chapter 3 is actually really good so im leaving it unchanged

but ok so chapter 4. throné confronts Father and he tells her how proud of her he is for making it this far and that he knew she would. if she succeeds here, she’ll prove once and for all that shes worthy to lead the blacksnakes. throné tells him that shes fucking off forever after this and he cant stop her. he says he doesnt have to— someone with so much blood on her hands can never live a normal life. even if the collar is gone, she’s still a killer and a thief. sooner or later, she’ll realize the blacksnakes are all she has. throné wants to refute him, but can’t come up with a satisfying response. Father switch to fighting sprite and tells her that it’s time to stop trying to run away from the life she chose, that she was meant for. throné defeats him. his last words are “i love you”. throné switch to heavy damage sprite and after a pause says “i hate you.” she reaches for the keys and unlocks the collar, but realizes that she really doesn’t know what to do now. she leaves the montwise cathedral but on the way back to town is grabbed by a strange man who is just repeating . idk like “i’m lost, help, help, i’m lost” or whatever this guy is one of the broken vessels and throné manages to shove him off and kill him but finds a note in his hand that is a map leading to an X or maybe directions. idk whatever but this is a map to the gondola

throné arrives at the gondola and finds lostseed. i actually love lostseed i think it owns and its one of the coolest locations in the game so im slamming it in just like the writers but at least trying to make it relevant. throné finds the shrine(btw this is the shrine) and goes through and who is it at the end You Guessed It it’s mira. throné is like. what the fuck is going on. mira tells her that this village is where the successor of the blacksnakes must go to receive the gift of agelessness and throné is like. what? she reveals that Mother and Father both wanted to have their successor candidates and that mira was Mother’s. the gift of agelessness is like. a fountain you have to drink from or maybe it is the flame itself somehow, and all the broken vessels are people who tried to drink from the fountain but were unworthy and instead went insane and are now empty husks. mira says that shes going to kill throné once and for all so she cant come back to take revenge and then mira will drink from the fountain and become the successor. throné tells her that this is a bad idea and shes definitely going to become a husk. mira tells her to shut the fuck up and you know what at least she knows her place in the world and attacks. throné overpowers and kills her. mira has a bit before she bleeds out where she tells throné that she always knew throné was stronger than her, and that throné could be the best leader the blacksnakes have. her last words are. ok so this would be easier in japanese but in english even though i feel like its kind of clunky you can still have mira call her “big sister”. throné obviously decides not to drink from the fountain of youth. you dont need to have any dialogue to establish that she has now realized she had complicated feelings about mira but i want to have her unlock mira’s collar and maybe give her a burial in lostseed. her last scene is returning to montwise and buying a raspberry turnover or whatever. she reflects that she still doesnt know where she goes from here, but that she at least knows that no matter what, she won’t be the blacksnakes’ successor. i was debating between her endcard being that or the grave but since temenos already has a grave endcard i think having a version of her endcard that references the raspberries thing is better

OH also her design on her endcard is way better than her ingame design. no thief design is complete without the little mantle and also please give this poor woman some fucking pants. i think she should also have gloves though. tbh i also want to have her skirt be full instead of asymmetrical but i do acknowledge that at this point im basically just describing tressa’s clothes with a longer skirt but in my defense i really like tressa’s design and they could add details to make it different.

MORE IMPORTANTLY THOUGH for crossed paths . its so fucking stupid that her crossed paths is with temenos i fucking hate it here for real. throné doesnt even do anything shes literally just the Specialest Birthday Boy in the world’s sidekick and its so frustrating bc again theres a way more obvious pairing: osvald. obviously osvald. if you asked me which character i would pair with the girl whose main trait is that her abuse was from her father, the guy whose main trait is his relationship with his daughter would be a lot fucking higher on my list than catholic sherlock(partitio can just be kind of there in temenos’ story and in the postgame he suffers a lot less from being completely ignored because The Most Important Guy In The World is the only person that matters for temenos’ torch(no hate to partitio btw i love the spaghetti western man but someone has to be the sacrifice)). throné and osvald are mirrors of each other in a bunch of interesting ways, thronés conflict is about whether or not shes her father’s daughter/osvald was extremely close with his daughter who was a lot like him, throné has spent her entire life in the underworld but wants to live a normal life/osvald was living a normal life but has recently been plunged into the underworld, etc. you could have osvald and throné conflicting because both of them are projecting their father/daughter onto each other and their crossed paths are about them realizing that they need to approach each other as individuals, you could have the two of them ending up falling into a father/daughterish dynamic in a lighthearted way, you could have an inverted mentor/apprentice dynamic where throné ends up teaching osvald mugging tips and tricks or whatever, you could have the two of them sharing the conflict of not being sure if they can ever find a normal life when osvald has dedicated so much of himself to revenge and its not like he can just fucking. pick up his life where he left off and throné doesnt even know what a normal life would be like and hey maybe osvald could share some of what a normal life with a caring father is supposed to look like. if the crossed paths were tied to their main story you could even explicitly have the two of them conflict over what osvald owes to his daughter now that he knows shes alive or have throné react to harvey changing elena’s memories, or you could have osvald get invested in thronés conflict because as a father hes got a personal stake in seeing a father treat his daughter like shit. or i dont. fucking know. thatd probably be best saved for travel banter actually but what im saying is their dynamic is much more interesting and i would pretty please like to allow throné to have an important role in what is allegedly supposed to be Her shared story.

but in the spirit of not completely rewriting everything osvalds crossed paths actually works fine with throné instead since she and partitio both have a get item path action but throné’s motivation for helping regulus will initially just be contrarianism where osvald is like “dont waste your time” and throné is like “hmm interesting. unfortunately i do have to see what happens solely because you seem so upset about it”. i think this story works best where throné and osvald sort of unconsciously fall into a father/daughter dynamic where throné feels a sudden powerful urge to exert major teenager energy. the second entry is again mostly the same but throné offers to steal it instead and osvald is like “no im going to punch this guy”. during the stargazing scene regulus mentions that osvald’s new assistant reminds him of elena and that he thought she was the only person who could drag osvald into wasting his time and osvald is like ill fucking kill you and throné is like ah papá i did not know you were so weak willed that a ten year old could drag you around and osvald is like ill blow this whole building up (paraphrasing). this is definitely on the lighthearted end but thats fine octopath really doesnt like having protagonists conflict which does suck ass but i also understand

for the postgame obviously like i said lostseed is the location of the scholar/thief shrine, the blacksnakes’ founder found a way to harness the power of the flame to achieve immortality and the leader of the snakes is brought into the moonshade order and theyre supposed to sacrifice themself to snuff out the torch, if youre really dedicated to The Sacred Flame Is Unambiguously Good No Matter what you can have lostseed not be the shrine and just keep the blacksnakes leader sacrificing themself bc ik octopath’s canon mythology is allergic to being interesting but either way osvald can be like. Damn you dodged a fucking bullet huh(paraphrasing)

since mira has tragically passed away she cant be the postgame quest but instead the elderly guard/gondola operator being twins can still be a thing so i would like the guard to have a brother and also like. niece who he thinks died, and so he asks you to see if you can find anything that remains of them. the brother is his twin and his niece is the “give it back” girl. the solution is still to bring the guard to his brother, and the brother leads him to the girl and explains that she was another successor candidate but that when she tried to drink from the fountain it turned her into a husk and so he stayed in lostseed to watch over her. the guard and ideally the player realize that all these broken vessels were once full people and decides to stay with his brother to watch over the town in case a way is ever found to heal them

#c.paradisi #i wanted to put this under a readmore but apparently youre not allowed to do that in the old editor and the new one has character limits #so you get big chunky boy.#octoposting #while writing this i was like. hmm. is this too sappy and straightforward. and thats definitely my biggest concern #but like whatever. i really liked octopath 2's stories that were straightforward but well-executed so #yeah idk. its pretty fitting that i think about throné way more even though i thought castti's story was better #octopath loves to give me delicious concepts and then trip on its face trying to execute them and every time im like hmm interesting.#i am going to think abt this for the rest of my life

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