#cas and lucifer have angel powers so i suppose they could do it the easiest

[femsammy]

who's most likely to knock sam up?

#evening thoughts #cas and lucifer have angel powers so i suppose they could do it the easiest #dean finds a way for anything so hes also a contender #wincest #sam winchester

[justanearth-boundmisfit]

1/3 Wtf is this final? Chuck was a lazy ass and a dickhead who left psychotic angels with some stupid prophecy about Michael and Lucifer fighting, but he was never evil! He locked Lucifer in the cage because MoC corrupted him and he was dangerous to humans. He locked leviathans for the same reasons. And now tptb want me to believe he's suddenly evil? He's not lawful good, but he's not evil either. Irresponsible, yes, but not evil, for fuck sake! This twist doesn't make any sense.

2/3 People are praising it for being surprising, but that’s the point, it’s too suprising! Fans don’t have to predict the plot twist for it to be good, but the clues has to be there, so when people rewatch the season they can find them and feel silly for not noticing them faster. What was clues for Chuck being evil? I mean, I’m sure someone noticed something painted on the wall in some shots or a person dressed like Chuck in the other

3/3 but those are not clues, they’re supposed to be easy to notice in the whole context or without it, and by everyone, not only by delusional metas who see Destiel in a pebble kicked by Dean while walking toward Cas! And what even now? How are we supposed to be afraid of God, when we already know Amara is more powerful? And she’s still good? I mean, she should be. God, I’m so angry at this stupid show! Good thing I still have a good season final, like Gotham one, or good show like B99.

Hi Joanna, fair warning this got REALLY long, sorry (cringe), it goes under the cut for that reason: 

It feels terribly cheap right? Also, what I never really liked about spn is that they HAVE to have a cliffhanger or a twist in every season finale to shock audiences and bait them to keep coming. A story doesn’t always need a twist at the end, more so if it’s well written, imagine every tv show/movie having a twist ending. It would be boring af, that’s what happened to M. Night Shyamalan for example. We all loved 6th Sense, but he kept coming back with movies that only relied on the “twist” without concentrating on the whole story first and foremost and people got tired of his tricks. And that’s exactly what is happening with spn, although on another level of production of course. It’s a show that only can deliver shock, angst, death and twist! Without the care of preparing the story for those things. It just doesn’t work imo.

But fandom is used to that, and the majority keep coming back for more of the same old same old. Even if it just a cheap trick, or even, like in this case, doesn’t make sense AT ALL. Spn fandom it’s just loyal to a fault, and also the bait from tptb is extreme, they are always promising something that they are never going to deliver, it’s the best example of the carrot at the end of the stick. 

For some tv shows/movies you have to apply the suspension of disbelief for them to be enjoyable. I apply it to tons of superheroes movies for example, because if I’m going to be incredible analytical about them, well, nothing is going to make sense and just why bother right? In the case of spn we have to apply the same method all the time, BUT, some things just can’t be ignored. Why? Well because even the easiest plots to follow don’t make sense. You have to have a base storyline to follow, a central arc that in the end, makes sense and leaves you with a sort of satisfied feeling. If even the central arc, the most important storylines, or even the myths of the show don’t make sense from one season to another, we lost really important parts of the plot along the way. And it starts to feel cheap and just plain WRONG. That’s what happened to spn, imo.

I just watched a video of people talking about the whole MCU and how we arrived to Endgame (no worries not going to talk about any spoilers), and it’s really easy, even for the people that are not that much into the MCU, to see how well crafted the whole journey was. It’s not an easy task of course, and there are mistakes along the way, but you really can see the care for the core story and how they departed from point a, to arrive to point z, and it feels really well done. What I mean is: it CAN be done. Not only by MCU, GOT also is doing this, again with mistakes, but you can feel that they were paying attention, in some cases, even to minimal details. 

Back to spn, it’s painful to see how the show doesn’t pay attention to what came before, and how much they just don’t care. And it’s utterly obvious with this finale. Yeah it’s surprising, yeah most of the people didn’t see it coming, yeah it’s another shocking reveal… BUT where does it leave the central storylines and myths? Is it worth it in the end, to have a “twist” that erases and/or changes not only last season, but YEARS of story telling? My bet is on NO. But I’m in the minority here. I bet metas are going to write tons of posts saying how DUMB  people that didn’t see this coming are. How they only know how to read the narrative, and the people that complain about spn is just stupid and don’t even understand the basics of story telling. Whatever they can keep writing their lies trying to convince themselves that destiel (the pebble “subtext” made me laugh tons ^^) still exists and how amazing Dabb’s era is. 

But the truth is that it just.doesn’t.make.sense. I already said it in one of my many venting in the tags: God being this writer that has manipulated the bros (and Cas) storyline since forever, doesn’t make sense! It erases years of plot and core arcs and myths… also for the trope of Evil All Along you have to give your audience some clues, because the real joy is to go back and to see all the little hints that you missed along the way. What hints spn gave us for this forced twist to pay off?. Not one imo. Yes, like you said, Chuck is a douche, he’s not a good God, not a good parent, not a good anything… but the Big Bad Villain? Of ALL THE STORY ALL THIS TIME? Can’t see it sorry, it feels forced, it feels cheap, it feels poorly constructed. And it has been done before too with Metatron! I mean…it’s cheap AND recycled. 

Like I said in tags too, it also feels like All Just a Dream trope, one of the worst things you can do to your audience, because everything that you thought was real, now suddenly changes because the writers need a sudden surprising twist (see also Writer on Board). It’s an utter mess, a low way to trick audiences, but coming from that writers’ room I shouldn’t be surprised at all. 

This doesn’t bode well for season 15 imo, God being this super villain, how long is it going to last? Because the final season should be about wrapping up personal story lines, not about another incredible hard to beat big bad, that in the end is killed/vanished by one of the bros being all powerful a la Dragon Ball. 

Horrible writing, horrible treatment of the characters (of ALL of them not only Cas, what they did to Mary is horrible too), cheesy self insert, plots that make no sense, that’s what spn is going out with. It’s terrible sad that a show with so much potential is entering its final season on such a low note. 

Sorry it got long af as usual, or more than usual really. But can’t shut up about this horrible mess.

Hugs darling!

Ps: was going to tag this but it got too long. Somebody just msg me saying that Chuck was never presented as s whole good pure God. And I agree. But he was never presented as a whole evil God either. Capricious? yes. Lazy? yes, likes to play with people? Yes (the same could be said about Gabriel for example, was he evil? I don’t think so, the show was always sympathetic towards him). But to make him the BIG BAD all of a sudden? Nah, the show never hinted at him being a character that could open the gates of hell just to have his way. Metas can write tons of essays about occultism, religion and God in western culture, Sorry not buying. Metas can also have all the readings they want, it’s sad that they can’t get down of their high horses to start respecting other points of view…

#nigaki #rant of rants #venting #replies #ranty replies #it got long #thing is that I don't know if the people praising this finale watch many other shows #because otherwise they would not be clapping that much #when you compare spn with other shows and how much television has changed in the last few years #yikes! #spn doesn't really have anything to offer anymore #less so with the people behind it #what a little bunch of bullshitters #I was hoping that some part of the fandom woke up with the /you're dead to me/ #but not even that made them stop wishing for this show to be better #well we are coming to the end #thank all the gods #nothing much left to be hopeful about #what you see is what you get #anti spn #anti dabb #this one tag is for the metas that sometimes read my blog ^^ as usual muah! #don't like don't read #it's under the cut after all #dirt for ts #long post for ts #spn spoilers #I forgot to tag that

[elizabethrobertajones]

I've been thinking about what Misha said before the season aired about how Cas would be back but he might not be exactly the same. Based on what we've seen so far, do you have any thoughts on what he might have meant by that? I still have fears that he's really The Empty in Cas form and he's come back to Earth to confirm that there's "nothing there" for Cas to kind of taunt him. Like the only way for real Cas to come back would be for Dean to tell Empty!Cas what he really means to him.

If you want reassurances, I’m about 100% convinced the writers wouldn’t be putting in the energy to pull a long con like that. :)

They really flag up when something is wrong with a character, to let us know that we should be suspicious with the sort of tropes or character beats which should be readable from space. If anything we’ve seen more non-Cas-es this season than normal, all different variations of Empty Cas and Casmodeus and Zach-as-Cas etc. Which contrasts more to our Cas using him as the baseline, than a warning that it’s not him. If Casmodeus kidnapped and replaced Empty!Cas, that’s treachery on treachery, and also away from the Winchesters and pointlessly stuck for 2 weeks, a cosmic entity more powerful than God wouldn’t have been concerned about Lucifer and Asmodeus finding out what it was and would have preferred to get free and go back to playing the con IT wanted to do about Sam n Dean and how Cas feels about them, so the sooner it’s back with them the better, no time to suffer fools along the way. 

I feel like it’s pretty safe to assume the Empty is behind us for now, though it’s something we’ve explored a little and now we have a little better knowledge of it to be used some other time maybe, or maybe not, it was entirely there for Cas as a character than for setting up some plot stuff. It’s like I’ve been talking about Mary lately, where people are convinced the stuff from the AU and the things it’s saying about her deal are retcons or something, rather than reflecting on how the terms of the AU actually mean anything for her as a character or that the set up was entirely for her emotional benefit.

She and Cas had pretty directly paralleled states at the start of the season (really, they’re still continuing as she’s sort of taken over Jack for him now they’re on the other side of the AU together, so they’re sharing a responsibility for him in a parental sort of way that doesn’t exactly overlap with the way Sam and Dean related to him…) and anyway, while Mary was off in the AU, Cas was off in the Empty, and between their appearances in 13x01-4 the storytelling was using the dramatic irony set up of Sam n Dean thinking they’re dead while their narratives are continuing merrily away. For Mary that was supposed to be an exploration of the AU from her perspective to discover this world that her AU counterpart sort of helped ruin (to be facetious - obviously cause and effect vs blame is kind of a thing right now :P) and okay so we don’t get that until non-Buckleming write her in 13x14 but we can work with that.

But for Cas he gets a strong exploration of where he is at as a character, almost like a “this is your life” sort of thing, to sum up everything he’s been through, up to the point of finding himself for the first time facing perma-death instead of instant resurrection before he could find his way to the Empty. It reads his mind and finds out everything there is to know about who and what Cas is, and therefore we have to assume it’s picking its words carefully when it talks to Cas, trying to make him give up and go back to sleep by beating him down with everything it knows. 

Having resisted this and convinced the Empty he won’t be made to go back to sleep, and overcoming all the stuff it tells him which is drawn from his lowest points and worst opinion of himself, Cas chooses living over endless sleep, and to return to the fight… He still has some negative feelings towards himself but overall he’s had to acknowledge and accept a lot of things in order to put them aside and resist the Empty and not let it win by admitting it’s right - by telling him things his own depression has been telling him for years (vocalised by all the angels who are mean to him through the last few seasons). 

So when he comes back he’s ultimately got to have an at least slightly different perspective or sense of self-worth than he has had before. For example, he does actually snidely get out of jail with Asmodeus and Lucifer by not suffering the idiots around him and acting 100% better than them in every way, but he does it as Cas, and not as the Empty - full of compassion, righteous pissed-off-ness at Lucifer, and a clearly stronger sense of self. He’s also back to snarking at Sam and Dean, grumpy banter with Dean, and while he still has hella issues, they’re not the same issues as the depression arc (though I obviously think you can’t say he’s magically cured of that, but that it’s at least something he’s doing BETTER with now), but exploring other scars left on his psyche, such as by being an angel for billions of years and the damage that would do on someone’s self-esteem and sense of purpose while trying to be a member of a team and family instead now. (Aka everything he kept saying about being a soldier in 13x14 which was so alarming. Worrying, yes, but all coming internally from Cas and highlighting where his character arc is going now, since they’ve resolved, somewhat, his depression arc which culminated in his death in season 12, and had to be overcome on a personal level in order to re-enter the story…) 

And since Cas got back, by the first few minutes of 13x06 it felt clear to me there was no way it could be anything other than our Cas (not that I had doubted it from the moment he woke up in the field, as he clearly won the argument in the Empty and the stakes for winning were set out by Cas immediately, that he would be returned to life if he wasn’t going back to sleep), just because the emotional arcs came back and the story is being told about Cas and his feelings in such a way that it is definitely about his internal processes and reactions, and not about some stand-in for Cas who will not benefit from these things.

I suppose the easiest example, especially to keep it non shippy, would be that they gave him a scene alone with Jack, which would benefit no one if it was played like that but was not Cas, and if it were not Cas, the story ought to have been prompting Jack to be suspicious about who Cas was when the Winchesters were unable to sense something was off, rather than Cas being curious about who Jack was. And of course Cas’s interest in Jack has been calm and emotional rather than over-zealous and seeking power or curious about what he can do rather than who he might be. When he needles Lucifer about who Jack is and how he’s not like Lucifer, that’s something only Cas could or would even care to do, rather than emphasising his power or potential. He reassures Jack that he’s supposed to do great good but again that was about Jack’s heart, at the core meaning… If it were not Cas, any other creature would be encouraging Jack to conquer, even if it was dressed up as pretending to spread love. There’d be something blatantly wrong with Cas’s message if he were not Cas. And this would be where we would pick up on it.

Also, my personal favourite metric for judging if Cas is Cas or not: he’s been knocked flat on his back like 5 times already since he got back.

That’s our boy there.

#Asks #caaas #13x04 #13x06 #13x12 #13x14

[dustydreamsanddirtyscars]

Sorry if you've answered this already but based on the current trajectory/pieces on the board and your own awesome ideas on the show -- if you were in charge, what would S14 look like/be about?

Hello. I have a question, and it may seem weird. But is it confirmed that Jensen’s new character is Dean possessed by something? or does everyone just assume that? Because Judging on the pictures we’ve seen of him as the new character, his outfit is pretty ‘old timey,’ you’d think if he was possessed that whoever/whatever possessing him would just wear whatever Dean is wearing at the time right? Or am I wrong and looking too much into it?            

Hey there!

I’ll tackle these asks together as well if you don’t mind. :)

I’m sorry for only replying so late and also only with this short reply, but I am truly so short on time due to traveling for work atm that in my days off I just have so much other stuff to do and plan prior JIB that I simply can’t be online as much atm. So sorry again! *hugs*

Given the latest episode I personally think that we will likely end this season on a mixture of endings such as in S8 and S9. I get the feeling that possibly none of the main characters will actually end the season in the same place, but will each face their respective “all goes to hell”-moment. And with that I don’t mean they are in different universes, but they’ll be split up and each of them focused on a different obstacle. And I also kind of think that the Apocalypse World thing may not be resolved this season.

But to make it a bit easier, I’ll give you some things I could imagine happening in S14 or the end of S13 that takes us over to S14 and that being things I’d pick to explore if I was to be part of the writing team.

Judging from official descriptions it seems that in 13x21 the Winchesters may enter Apocalypse World once more and trying to bring Mary and Jack back. From spoilers we know however that won’t go as smoothly as expected because Mary seems to see that world as her form of purgatory and doesn’t want to go back. Futhermore in 22 apparently they plan on saving lots of innocents which I suppose could mean they will try to bring all of the resistence over to the normal SPN world including Kevin, Bobby, etc.. At the same time it seems Rowena is dealing with Lucifer in some way as the official description for 13x22 says that Rowena’s interaction with Lucifer will have an effect on the outcome of the journey for one of our heroes. Now question is does journey mean the journey to the other world or their story in a broader sense? In any case the hook line is called “hitching a ride” which at the very least feels ominously alluding to possession or something like Dean carrying Benny out of purgatory in his arm. That said based on these infos I could imagine that

a) Lucifer may be wounded ot even dead after his confrontation with Rowena, which is the reason for

b) the last bits of his power keeping Heaven stable enough (where was he btw? because he seemed to not have been in Heaven since the whole low on bettary thing and lights flickering wasn’t a thing when he was around) are gone and Heaven would fall and that leading to

c) all souls kept in Heaven crashing to earth and causing chaos - and the show using a parallel to how it was in S9 with the angels that possibly some of those ghosts, because they are unable to deal with this opt for possession.

d) the falling souls thing would be of course another perfect possibility to bring back deceased characters (this is also where I could imagine the show truly got JDM for some short scene as John), but much more than that truly re-arrange the whole natural order (and with that also give Death a whole lot more trouble), because

e) with Heaven falling and apparently Hell being run by no one, I think they could really let a few big bads come out to play from Hell.

f) Furthermore Heaven falling and God remaining absent and Jake possibly also staying back in the AU would make for a blank in power structure that so far jas been filed by everything christian belief/lore and in that regard Gabriel going after demigods of other cultures and beliefs feels important, because those smaller religions, etc. could be filling that blank space.

And that brings me to the main characters and what may be in store for them. The least ideas I have for Sam’s story tbh, but I think whatever it will be it will be tied to Rowena and witchcraft (possibly even his psychic abilities coming back or his demon blood addiction playing a role again) since for seasons the show has been framing Sam with witchcraft in particular and with Rowena as well.

Cas I could imagine is either the one to finally remember there exists another archangel in their universe that they may try and contact and in so far could be trying to rise Michael from the cage in a desperate attempt or could even go as  far as tyring to reach back to the Empty and get that place’s entity to allow more angels to return. In any case they will make this angels dying out thing a very personal journey for Cas I assume.

And last but not least there is Dean and that is probably who everybody is thinking about most and while the show has been alluding to Michael!Dean or Death!/Reaper!Dean or more generally Dean dying quite heavily I think it will be none of that or at the very least in the shape we have come to know.

As I have said before on this topic of spoilery pics from set and that Jensen posted himself, the vibe I am getting is that whoever Jensen plays is something/someone that hasn’t been walking earth in a long time or never (really, their “it’s someone from a while back” could just be distraction). Just look wise I fangirled over the outfit because as a massive Peaky Blinders fan it reminded me a great deal of those costumes, but moreover reminded me also of “Baron Samedi” (who could fit the bill of someone from way back and something related to Death).

At the moment I think that what- or whoever Jensen will play (and of course they could truly just opt for a doppelgänger plot with Hevane falling and possibly different world collapsing someone looking like Dean but not being Dean could pop up, but I think this is a more unlikely possibility) is a creture/character that only comes into being due to the situation and blanks left by Heaven going out of business and there needing to be someone to “guide those souls” to their new resting place. If they wanted to they could perfectly use  Baron Samedi like figure here to do that. Now question is why that creature would look like Dean but dress differently or would chose Dean as his vessel. I have no good explanation or idea, but it could be the Billie as Death knows Dean’s expertise in that regard and knows something will come - she was very interested truly about what would happen if Sam died (you could even argue that Sam getting hurt/death could have brought about the chnge in Dean Billie is after - again I don’t think Billie will survive this season) - and that Dean would be the right one for the job. More generally I think Dean is in a mindset where he would make a deal - even possession of some sort - if it meant they could save the world. Also, reapers are supposedly a league of angels, couldn’t they possibly be “promoted” to angels and power Heaven and therefore someon who has worked as a reaper before filling their place? Anyway...

So to answer your first anons questions (and this really just a brief collection of ideas I have, I could also imagine Cas trying to get some angels from AU to this world for example, but there are so many ideas but I can’t get them in order or at least can see them work on their own but nor woven together, so I left those out)

All that said if I had to take over from here on out, I would work with Heaven falling and the aftermath of that and explore that. Likewise one would also have to take a look at the state of Hell, because who runs that atm? I’d stick to this main thing and would work everything around that in terms of personal arcs and would chuck the million tiny stories Dabb opens up with each new episode without resolving or truly takin time to develop them.

And now to the second ask. No, I don’t think it was said anywhere that Dean will get possessed. It is just based on allusions throughout the season one could think that was foreshadowing, but also it would be the easiest explanation and the current staff seems to go with the most obvious options. But no, in general it could be someone who looks like Dean or appears in his shape, but is not possessing Dean. If Jensen playing someone else than Dean and Dean disappearing would be a dead serious confirmation imo that this mini arc won’t last longer than 3 episodes or 4 at most, because the show simply cannot function without Dean as Dean, because Dean builds the emotional core and serves as the narrartor of the show, so if he isn’t there, the show lacks it’s heart and soul. That is not to say Sam isn’t important or that Cas isn’t, but I am saying this without any maliciousness involved, the show can function and has shown to function when they are not around as Cas or Sam (see all the times we had Not!Sam or Not!Cas), but that would not be the case with Dean. He is the stepping stone and core of it all holding it together, so... I’d be surprised if the show went with Dean not being Dean for much longer.

#Ask #Anonymous #SPN Meta #SPN spoilers #SPN speculation #Season finale scenarios #Season 14