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cobragardens · 7 months

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Notes on the Scene in Job's Basement

Crowley is not tempting Aziraphale here. He's experimenting on him.

Getting Aziraphale to sin, or even getting him drunk, is not Crowley's intent in this scene. Eating food, taking pleasure in food, drinking alcohol, and even being drunk are not sins in most of Judaism or Christianity (and they're certainly not sins in British Christianity, regardless of any church's doctrine). When Aziraphale turns down alcohol, Crowley just suggests he try food instead; so it's not important to Crowley what Aziraphale tries, but it is important to him that he try something.

This scene is also the first time (chronologically) we see that Crowley likes to drink and likes to be drunk.

We know from

and from

as well as from Book Omens and Word of God that angels have no instinct beyond curiosity pulling them toward eating or toward gender. From this we can reasonably presume they have no instinct toward Beverages either.

That means that in this moment--

--Crowley is very likely the only metaphysical entity he knows on either side of the divide, or even knows of, who has ever experienced a physical pleasure.

And he probably has some Lingering Questions about it, like we all did the first time a physical pleasure blew our minds. Like,

Is it this strong for everyone?

Is there something wrong with me?

Am I going to hurt myself if I do this, like, a lot?

And it's not like the poor creature can ask anyone, because the answers for humans aren't necessarily going to apply to him.

So when he sees an opportunity, Crowley gets that one angel he knows who'll talk to him to try a human thing, and then he watches to see if physical pleasure hits the angel as hard as it hit him.

And that's why he looks so creepily pleased when it does.

Apparently it is this strong for everyone and there isn't anything wrong with him. Now he can relax and get sloshed without worrying, and he even has someone to talk to about how rad human stuff is.

A Dip Into Speculation

We know because we're shown this isn't the first time Crowley has gotten drunk that, watching Aziraphale, Crowley understands what he's seeing. I think it's really interesting that Crowley doesn't laugh at Aziraphale at any point during this scene, and he doesn't correct the way he's eating, either.

Maybe it's because this is what it was like for Crowley the first time. Maybe he got so drunk he passed out and woke up in a puddle of his own sick. Maybe he got so drunk he passed out and didn't wake up at all, and there was Paperwork and he had to get used to a whole new corporation just when he'd got the hang of having legs in the old one. Maybe somebody had to show him how to use a fork or whatever they had going on for eating utensils in Ancient Mesopotamia. I distinctly remember having to learn as a small child to chew with my mouth closed. There is every possibility Crowley doesn't consider the way Aziraphale is eating to be worthy of ridicule because whatever Crowley did the first time was worse.

Maybe he wants to leave Aziraphale set up for later embarrassment over his table manners. Aziraphale was a judgy bitch about the wine.

Or maybe it's something like Let him have this one. There can be rules to it later; let him just enjoy it, once, like a little kid with both fists in their birthday cake.

Maybe it's desire. There is some textual evidence for this. Once Aziraphale learns to eat properly, the way he does it is very attractive, and we know Crowley loves watching him do it.

I don't think it's overreaching even to interpret David Tennant's physical performance of Crowley watching Aziraphale eat as one of sensual or erotic pleasure. I mean--

I'm not saying it absolutely has to be erotic, but it's not a reach, or even a full extension of the elbow, to read it that way.

There's another meta somewhere [I'll link it when I find it again; if you know this meta, please drop it in comments!] that discusses how this exchange in Job's basement is filmed like an erotic scene.

Like Crowley, we all want to kiss this face.

Aziraphale isn't eating prettily, but he's eating lewdly, ravenously, desirously, and it's lit like romantic sex, not like gluttony. Whether that's funny or poignant or hot may depend on the viewer. Here's how Crowley's handling it:

Srs tho, any frame of this scene could have been painted by Artemisia Gentileschi.

Or maybe--and this is my favorite of the available interpretations--maybe this is what it was like for Crowley the first time and he doesn't interfere because he wants Aziraphale to come out of this as someone who's had the same experience Crowley's had so Crowley won't be so totally alone in having had it.

#good omens #good omens s2 #companion to owls #good omens 2 #good omens job's basement

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jocorvus · 8 months

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I'd like to talk about "A Companion to Owls" aka the Job minisode flashback.

In the episode, we see Crawly repeatedly saying "I'm a Demon, I lied." YET every instance of this utterance is him appearing to do bad but secretly doing good.

Much like his VERY fae/elven-like double speak where he appears to say he wants to destroy Job's children, BUT when he adds that it's like how he destroyed Job's goats it switches the meaning entirely. Because he DIDN’T destroy the goats. So, he wants to APPEAR to do it, but not actually do it.

Back to the Demon lying thing.

We see him start this off with, "I am a Demon, I could be lying." But he hadn't been. He really did have the permit. But he didn't actually destroy the goats.

Next it's the children. He starts the fires and Aziraphale protests, "But you said you wouldn't!" And indeed, he didn't. He wasn't planning on it. But he made it appear that way.

Then we have a moment where Aziraphale says being on his own side sounds lonely and Crawly says it isn't.

Now... at the end when Aziraphale says being an Angel that goes along with heaven as far as he can sounds... and Crawly answers, "Lonely?.... Yeah." And Aziraphale sounds affronted, "But you said it wasn't!". We get one last, "I'm a Demon, I lied."

But did he? He then spent the rest of his time on Earth continuously bumping into Aziraphale. Becoming more and more his friend and companion and partner. He didn't let Aziraphale become lonely.

And in doing so, Crowley made himself not lonely either.

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rainbowpopeworld · 5 months

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I’ve seen this behind the scenes video before, but it was a couple months ago. In rewatching I was struck by a couple things:

1. I believe that in speaking carefully and trying not to give any spoilers, Michael Sheen and David Tennant’s words sound even more suggestive than they ordinarily would.

“*pause* earthly delights”

“Crowley guides him to certain understandings, in different ways”

“ox ribs…which he takes to…*very enthusiastically*”

2. “That was a very funny day- watching Michael spit beef across the set.” Why did David choose to say it this way? 😂😂😂 He could have said “spit beef out” or “into a bucket” or many other things, but *spit beef* *across the set* gives such images 😅😂😳

3. I’m sad they split them up for this part of the interview. They show them being interviewed together in other bts videos this season. They aren’t supposed to be separated! Can you imagine what would have happened if he had said “spit beef across the set” next to Michael‽ 😅😂🙃

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ineffableaddiction · 2 months

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What’s in a name?

I wonder if Crawley chose the name Crowley in honor of the crows that showed Aziraphale what his true intentions were.

I also wonder if AZ Fell was chosen by Aziraphale in remembrance of talk he and Crowley had on the beach after they saved Job’s children.

#good omens #crowley #aziraphale #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #ineffable spouses #group of the two of us #companion to owls #neil gaiman

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viperinz · 7 months

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crowley was so right for being like "you think you're a demon???" when aziraphale was being the most angelic he's ever looked because if you didn't tell me he was an angel i'd still assume he was one

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nofomogirl · 3 months

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Before the Beginning (part 1.3.)

Part 1.1. | Part 1.2. | Part 1.4.

The time has finally come for me to do something I've been both very excited about and terrified of ever since July - to analyze parts of Companion of Owls. Honestly, every scene in this minisode is so much, so dense and meaty and loaded, that I find it overwhelming.

But, as I've just said, the time has come.

The topic that interests us today - the fact that Crowley used to be an angel - is brought up in the courtyard of Job's children's house.

(...) A: I... I don't think... that is what God wants. C: Well... A: And I don't think you want it either. C: What do you know about what I want? A: I know you. C: You do not know me. A: I know the angel you were. C: The angel you knew is not me. A: Then... Then you tell me that you want to do this. You look me in the eye and tell me. C: I want to. I long to destroy the blameless children of blameless Job, just as I destroyed his blameless goats. A: Then God forgive you.

Oh dear, where do I even start?

Firstly, this exchange proves that Aziraphale has memories of Crowley from before the fall AND he's aware that the demon Crawley is that person he knew. We still don't know how much exactly Aziraphale remembers and knows, nevertheless, this is an important piece of the puzzle.

As to Crowley's response - it doesn't actually tell us as much. Unlike Aziraphale, Crowley is in a full bluff mode here and very keen to chase the angel away. Let's leave it for now.

Secondly - and for me this is really the crux of the scene - when referring to the demon's past angelic self, Azirhale uses the verb to know in the present tense (I know the angel), while Crowley says it in the past tense (the angel you knew). It's quite a big deal. It shows us that they perceive the object of that knowing - the object being pre-Fall Crowley - very differently. For Aziraphale, that person still exists, even though they're not an angel anymore. But Crowley speaks about this person the way you speak about dead people, closed chapters, and generally things with no significant connection to the present. He very clearly draws the line between his before and after while Aziraphale blurs it.

This is where things get complicated and I'm not sure how to present my thoughts in an orderly and comprehensible fashion...

God, this minisode is so much all at once!

Ok, let's start pulling at the thread about how Aziraphale was actually right about Crowley not wanting to hurt Job's kids.

The angel's own words suggest that he reached that conclusion based on what he knew about Crowley from before the Fall. He knew the angel who built the stars wouldn't do something like kill innocent children; he believed that the demon Crawley was still the same person as the angel who built the stars; therefore, he assumed that the demon Crawley would make the same decisions and act the same way and wouldn't kill innocent children. And he was correct.

What does that tell us?

Nothing definitive, actually. Because of course, it doesn't. It's Good Omens.

On the one hand, it may be a hint that Aziraphale does understand and see Crowley. Sure, the thesis of this whole sub-series (part 1 of the Before the Beginning series of posts) is that the Fall has fundamentally changed Crowley and that Aziraphale fails to realize just how deep that change goes. I still stand by it. But, true to the spirit of the show, it's not as black and white and clean-cut as it may seem at first glance. It's not as simple as Crowley understanding himself and Aziraphale being wrong.

Crowley is a trauma survivor and a lot of his behavior is coping mechanisms of various kinds. The way he separates himself from a past version of himself is certainly one of them. He is not objective and logical when it comes to the change he underwent. There are plenty of things about himself he doesn't understand because he's unable to calmly examine them. There are things he is in denial about. It's not exactly a stretch to think that he might actually NOT have changed as much as he insists he did, he simply finds it hard to identify with his past self. His before self. It's not exactly uncommon.

But on the other hand, how much did Aziraphale really understand?

Firstly, while he did correctly predict what Crowley would do, he didn't necessarily get why. He might have no clue what exact specific reasons made killing innocent children - just so God and Satan could settle a bet - so despicable for the demon. Because they might have been slightly, yet significantly different reasons than Aziraphale's.

Just look at the line Aziraphale throws Crowley's way while he's gorging on ox ribs and the demon lounges and drinks wine:

Come on, you're a little bit on our side!

Just because Crowley doesn't want kids hurt, Aziraphale jumps to the conclusion that his allegiance lies with Heaven in some way. Even though Heaven very clearly wants the kids hurt, so not the most logical conclusion...

It's quite evident the angel hasn't connected the dots as well as he thinks.

(By the way, we will get back to the dialogue that follows that line because it's just so... SO.)

Secondly, I suspect Aziraphale committed a serious logical fallacy here, which is reversing the entailment. His reasoning is that IF (A) the angel who built the stars wouldn't hurt children AND (B) the demon Crawley was the same person as the angel who built the stars THEN (C) the demon Crawley wouldn't hurt children. It is a logical statement. If A is true and B is true then indeed C must be true as well. Aziraphale either knows or simply believes A, believes B, and that leads him to the conclusion - C.

C turned out to be true.

I'm very much afraid that in the depth of his mind, Aziraphale has used it as proof that A and B, but especially B, are true as well. And this kind of reasoning is most definitely not correct.

If you have a statement like IF X IS TRUE THEN Y MUST ALSO BE TRUE it absolutely does not equal IF Y IS TRUE THAN X MUST ALSO BE TRUE. It just doesn't. Let's use an example. X = A brainrotten fan has bought a copy of Good Omens in an antique bookstore; Y = A brainrotten fan owns a copy of Goof Omens. If I know that you bought the book in an antique bookstore, I also know for sure you now own the book. However, if I only know that you own the book, I don't actually know if you bought it in an antique bookstore. You could have gotten it in dozens of different ways.

I'm hardly the first one to point out that the Job minisode shows us the seeds of a great many problems that bore fruit in the final fifteen. One of them is that Aziraphale's questionable belief that he understands Crowley really well gets validated and reinforced.

The worst thing is, that there weren't any chances to correct this mistake until it was too late.

During the events surrounding Job's trials, there was an unprecedented amount of soul-bearing between Aziraphale and Crowley. Well, objectively speaking the "bearing" was still just a few glimpses, nevertheless, it is more than we ever got to see on the show. Even the imminent Armageddon hadn't caused them to be so open and honest about their relationship with Heaven and Hell.

Ok, we're definitely not done with Companion of Owls yet, but I will stop here. See you in the next post.

#good omens #good omens 2 #good omens meta #crowley #aziraphale #before the beginning #post series #companion to owls

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sugaredoleander · 3 months

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good omens × side wounds

#good omens #gomens #crowley #aziraphale #aziraphale/crowley #aziracrow #ineffable husbands #job minisode #companion to owls #web weaving #lena oleanderson

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freebagels · 2 months

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Audio by Snapcube

Was the first thing that came to mind

#sorry for minimal editing #good omens #gay agenda #snapcube #penny parker & alfred #good omens season 2 #go 2 #Crowley #Aziraphale #Michael Sheen #David Tennant #Neil Gaiman #job minisode #companion to owls

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willowmaidsworld · 6 months

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Can we apreciate how insanely vibrant the Companion to owls minisode is? It's an ecstasy of colours!

#good omens #good omens 2 #aziraphale #crowley #colours!#companion to owls

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cobalt-sugar-punch · 7 months

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is this anything

#Crawly good omens #Aziraphale #good omens minisode #job minisode #minisode A companion to owls #companion to owls #good omens 2 #good Omens meme #gomens #gomens 2 #gomens meme #gomens 2 meme #good omens 2 meme

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theshippirate22 · 6 months

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okay i’ve been silent for too long- Sitis is an amazing and underrated character. While Job was sitting in the ruins of the barn, hyperventilating- which like yeah man me too- she was getting ready to weather the wrath of God. She was ready to curse God for killing her children without a second thought. She didn’t care what God had to say about whales, all she wanted was her children. She caught on to the New Children bit almost instantly.

My FAVORITE part about Sitis though, is how much she trusted Crowley. How she assumed he was Bildad the Shuhite and didn’t question it literally at all despite the fact that she had never seen that man before in her life. How Crowley’s mere suggestion that God would hurt her children was enough to shake her unending faith that God was good. How when Crowley told her to trust him and then told her to remove her husband’s ribs, she did it, without hesitation. and that’s an insane thing to do. i love it.

#good omens #companion to owls #sitis #crowley

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rainbowpopeworld · 2 months

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I’m sure other people have noticed this, but I love that both human children and goats are in the shot when he’s talking about not killing kids.

And then in s2 Companion to Owls, he saves both kinds of kids.

Sources for screencaps

As we know from Neil, kids are his favorite animal

#good omens #crowley #good omens 2 #kids #means both humans and goats #neil gaiman #john finnemore #ineffable motherfuckers #ineffable husbands #ineffable*#aziracrow #job minisode #companion to owls #noah’s ark #david tennant #michael sheen

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mywingsareonwheels · 9 months

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More "Good Omens" s2 joy

The way in which each of the minisodes gives context for one or more of the flashback scenes in 1.3 is just... *chef's kiss*

"Companion to Owls" bridges the gap between an Aziraphale still trying(ish) to justify heaven's worst actions, Crawley still being shocked by them, Aziraphale not entirely trusting Crawley's motivations (in the Flood flashback) to Crowley's bitter resignation and Aziraphale's weary sadness at the Crucifixion. That "it was your lot put Him up there" is still one of my favourite lines, and Aziraphale doesn't dispute it. Crawley's intervention on behalf of Job's children gives that scene so many more layers, and is a beautiful (and in context heartrending) mid-point on that emotional journey for both of them.

"The Resurrectionist", oh man. It's implied I think that Crowley being dragged down to hell for helping/saving Elspeth is the last Aziraphale sees of him until their meeting at St James's park a few decades later, and I think we can be certain that whatever Crowley's punishment was, it was pretty intense. In 1.3, we went from the lighthearted, suave rescuer of late 18th century to someone who seemed very low and rather traumatised a hundred or so years later, and I think we all knew that something had happened to him. Sounds like that was it. :( So that all gives more context to Crowley wanting "insurance" against hell, so that he has some means of defending himself. But meanwhile, Aziraphale's remembering that the last time they saw each other, a young woman nearly took her own life with poison, so of course he's going to be concerned that Crowley is at risk from a similar action. They're both coming from a very understandable point that "The Resurrectionist" set up. <3

(Also, who is "The Resurrectionist" in the title? I love games like that. Is it Dalrymple? Is it Elspeth? Is it Crowley in saving Elspeth? Or all three? <3 Technically/historically it's both Dalrymple and Elspeth, but in the show? Oh it's all three. :D ) And then "Nazi Zombie Flesheaters", which I admit I wasn't a huge fan of on first watching (I liked it more on rewatch, but I muted/averted my eyes for the brain-eating etc. bits, not at all a gore fan ;-) ) did nevertheless set up the 1960s scene brilliantly. That was perhaps the first time that Aziraphale really sees, in person, just an inkling of how dangerous hell is to Crowley. And it always takes things a while to percolate with him, but I think that's a large part of why he does eventually give in and give him the holy water, as well as adding layers to his protectiveness of Crowley in some of the "now" scenes in both seasons.

And all four (especially in combination with "Before the Beginning") give so much more context to the rest of series 2. Aziraphale's long (and still incomplete, which is understandable <3 ) journey in learning his own sense of morality separate from heaven's. Crowley's terror of the word "nice" as it applies to him. The compromises each of them has to make with the ideals of their bosses in order to function in the world and be true to themselves and the humans around them - and the danger that puts each of them in. The growing mutual loyalty that - make no mistake - hasn't been in any way put aside in their falling out at the end of the series. The way in which the solution to the loneliness they identify in "Companion to Owls" is each other. <3

And of course the fact that more people need to know John Finnemore's writing, given he was not merely the co-writer of the whole season, but the main writer on "Companion to Owls", bless him, and my goodness does he need more love for all of it. <3 I'd love to see Cat Clarke getting more credit for "The Resurrectionist" too!!

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meatballlady · 5 months

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Is it something that Keziah (daughter of Job) has usual angels? Where were they for the Job story?

#gos2 #good omens #aziraphale #crowley #keziah good omens #job good omens #companion to owls

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viperinz · 7 months

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who am i?

we have reached the companion to owls minisode part of the ineffable eras it is one of my favs 🫡🫡 next ineffable era will be golgotha!!

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westwardly · 2 months

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i will also post my second completed fic because its been a rough week and i need the dopamine

this one was fun to write because i also want someone to hold my hand while i cry on their shoulder 🥲

#crowley and aziraphale #gomens #companion to owls #they like holding hands #and i like hurt/comfort #still not sure i understand tags #someone help #good omens fanfiction #ao3 fanfic

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