#especially the namek saga

[dowiththatwhatyouwill]

God imagine Vegeta slowly falling accidentally in love with a human and he has to come to terms with his own internalized homophobia and xenophobia

He has to earn respect and forgiveness for his past misdeeds and learn to be better and simply just how to be without Frieza or the need/acceptability for violence

There's enough suffering in the universe already, and he realizes that love and kindness feel worlds better than the worlds he's destroyed

Falling in love feels simultaneously like heaven and the worst form of torture he's ever experienced

For the first time in his life since childhood, someone sees him and it is the most terrifying, painful ordeal to memory

(Also this way he won't get neutered like he did in the show and can have real (slow) believable character development that culminates in a real person with morals he knows how to stand by without contradicting them but is still very much chaotic and Proud)

(Imp Vegeta supremacy)

This man needs to be held

But he also needs to work for it

#his pride is one of his defining character traits #don't take it from him #but this man needs to balance his priorities #f this show had so much potential #especially the namek saga #help i love him #imp vegeta supremacy #vegeta x reader #vegeta x male reader #vegeta dbz #dragon ball z #namek saga

[paganminiskirt]

I love how Raditz uses him and Goku’s familial relationship to trick him into letting go of his tail so he can start whaling on him again, all the while having Gohan hostage in his pod. And then later on, Vegeta’s transformation into a great ape causes Goku to realize that he killed his own Grandpa Gohan all those years ago, accidentally or otherwise. It’s like this one biological side effect of his Saiyan heritage both robbed him of a relationship and prevented him from properly mourning once he realized what had happened, with his empathy and willingness to forgive being leveraged against him by those same Saiyans to destroy other familial bonds. It’s such a brutal introduction to a previously unknown part of your identity.

But then on Namek, Vegeta applies him & his father’s own situation to Gohan and Goku when he’s explaining the danger that the Frieza Force represent, saying how “they don’t have to be stronger than you to beat you, they could take your son hostage.” Obviously he’s referencing his childhood removal from King Vegeta’s “care,” but a side effect of that arrangement is that the King himself isn’t a tangible presence in his son’s life, certainly not by the time he’s on Namek. Vegeta does have something vaguely resembling a father figure when he makes that comparison, but it’s not him, it’s Frieza.

Frieza & Vegeta’s relationship is certainly not parental on an emotional level, but the mechanisms of keeping people as indentured servants naturally tend towards paternalism, and it’s obvious that Frieza has a weird little fixation on him besides. The entire Namek saga lowkey constructs this wildly uncomfortable parallel between Goku’s care for & devotion to Gohan, (putting himself in harms way and crossing between entire worlds to keep him safe over and over again,) and Frieza’s similarly relentless but antithetically possessive & degrading relationship with Vegeta, (repeatedly demanding that he be brought back to him alive no matter how much of a nuisance he becomes, to the point of having him nursed back to health after Zarbon claps his ass just so he can torture him himself.)

It’s Gohan who first notices that Captain Ginyu stole his dad’s body, and Gohan who keeps fighting through exhaustion and extreme violence before Goku gets to Namek. Later on in the Buu Saga, Goku realizes the projection of Gohan inside Majin Buu isn’t really his son quicker than anyone else does - their emotional bond is sturdy enough to transcend the physical, even after it’s repeatedly acknowledged that a young child shouldn’t be involved in situations as gruesome as these.

Compare that to Vegeta, who’s only visible relationship with his father comes from sharing violence as a form of giddy self-aggrandizement, until he sells him to a more powerful stranger - which he can’t even say was especially wrong by their own standards, the transaction as much a moral injury as an emotional one. As Frieza pointed out during his fight with Goku, he literally just beat the Saiyans at their own game, picking up where King Vegeta left off by using his son for the benefit of himself & the empire instead of for the benefit of his father & homeworld.

The fact alone that his relationship with his biological dad can begin to amalgamate with his relationship to a person who calls him a pet speaks volumes about how emotionally warped Vegeta was from the beginning. It’s a small wonder he clings to the dynastic propaganda of the Saiyans so hard, using the title he gets from the King in spite of the fact that his reaction to the man himself’s demise is so muted & repressed that it’s depicted using the imagery of a child encased in a mountain of corpses. It's the only thing that can potentially delineate what happened to him as unjust & undeserved - if it’s the violence itself that’s wrong, then what does that make him, his values, his scattered family, their entire culture. What does that make everything he’s been told since the moment of his birth.

And even in that scene where Vegeta is shrugging off his dad’s death and the planet’s destruction, the messenger mentions how Frieza offers his sympathies: as if Frieza isn’t the same person who killed him, this sickly pretense of warmth intended only to cover it up. You might recall how Goku is always mussing Gohan’s hair, and everyone knows that infamous scene where Vegeta strokes his hair before knocking the wind out of him - which can be read as a precursor to that horribly intimate beatdown Frieza lays on Vegeta and the others later, the one he had been planning to give Vegeta this whole time which is only compounded in brutality since Vegeta thwarted him, the one where he licks blood from Vegeta’s mouth off his face as he holds him up by his neck like a dog with it’s pup. It re-contextualizes the head stroke/brutal attack combo Vegeta pulled on Gohan as him acting out the sadistic objectification Frieza raised him on using another Saiyan child.

And in the end it comes full circle, with Vegeta using his last moments to pass the vendetta of himself and his own father on to Goku and his line. And this happens willingly, as a productive challenge to the Saiyan’s culture of domination, unlike the grotesque re-appropriation of that same culture that we’re presented with when Frieza takes Vegeta from home: Goku assumes this mantle after Vegeta is dead and fully incapable of forcing him. He also contradicts the callous disregard Vegeta displayed during the aforementioned scene with the Saibamen by treating his corpse with so much care. He holds him, he buries him. And you could argue that it’s better than he deserves at that point, but like. I think the fact that the gesture is unwarranted is a part of the point.

#dbz #Vegeta #frieza #Gohan #Goku #king vegeta #I guess he’s here too #dragon ball z

[blueper-saiyan]

I was thinking about the Namek Saga (as I often do ngl), and I find it really interesting that, despite all attempts to claim otherwise, Vegeta seems to care about Gohan and Krillin at least a little bit by the end of the arc. He's upset when he thinks Krillin got killed by Freeza.

He saves Gohan without any actual benefit to himself.

Although he does immediately claim it was to show off. Which I could take at face value I guess, but seriously? That's a pretty weak excuse. Especially because Freeza seemed to pick up on Vegeta having some concern for Gohan earlier.

I do not believe you, Vegeta. Also, wow that was fucked up of Freeza, nice touch on the evil.

So I'd say that Vegeta does have at least some level of concern for Gohan and Krillin, which has formed impressively quickly given that they've been teamed up less than one day. I guess they did both assist in kicking Vegeta's ass a few weeks ago, which probably went a decent way toward winning his respect. It's not a level of concern deep enough for him to actually risk himself on their behalf, but he seems distressed by them being hurt. It would sort of make sense if this tenuous bond formed earlier when they fought the Ginyus together, but Vegeta actually saved them first.

Again, I could take this at face value but c'mon. Saiyan prince, but tsundere king.

They do rescue him back, so maybe that's what earned them a tiny bit of loyalty.

However, Vegeta certainly didn't seem like he was expecting it and is even annoyed that they did it. Which is a bit hypocritical of him given that he just saved them. However, this could be the reason why he rescues Gohan from Freeza later on. He could be repaying the favor. He doesn't gain any tactical advantage from that, same as Gohan didn't really gain anything saving him here. But it honestly doesn't even seem like he's thinking of this moment later on. It seems like he just saved Gohan sort of by reflex and then had to justify it to himself (and everyone else present).

Why Vegeta gets invested in Gohan and Krillin is already pretty interesting to me. (I've seen the opinion that Vegeta sees himself in Gohan without realizing it, which is possible. The parallels between them has been the subject of a few tumblr analysis posts. I've also seen the idea that Vegeta sees Gohan as a subject to protect because he's a Saiyan child. However, neither really explains Krillin.) I'd be interested in other people's opinions on it. I can see it being some level of mutual respect or even just the pure pragmatism of being able to use them later.

But I also end up with a secondary question. If Vegeta can save others, or care about them in this span of time, why does he treat the people who he's been partnered with for at least 25 years like this?

Seriously why is he so callous about them both? It's fascinated me for ages, especially because I can directly contrast it with his behavior in the following arc. Obviously the Doylist answer is that Vegeta went from basically pure evil one-off villain who was supposed to die to an antivillain with a smidgen of sympathetic traits between the first and second arc. But I want a Watsonian one. Especially because both Raditz and Nappa seem to think Vegeta would help them.

Why would they think he'd help them? And why didn't he do it? Especially because he does help his new teammates in the next arc. Did the three of them have an epic argument at some point recently and Vegeta isn't over it? Had Vegeta been gradually internalizing more of Freeza's values and decided to rebel against the values a little too when he switched to open rebellion? Had he been slowly losing respect for Raditz and Nappa and this was the final straw, but Krillin and Gohan had earned more respect? Or did he grant both of his teams the same level of concern but Gohan and Krillin do a better job at being competent on their own?

#vegeta #long post #I have pics I didn't use which means they're going in their own post lol #not sure if I should tag the other relevant characters because I'm not really analyzing them meaningfully

[saiyanmazen]

Favorite Vegeta fighting scene?

I think about the Broly vs Vegeta fight the normal amount, especially how they really show the gracefulness in Vegeta’s fighting and how much in control he is.

He's also extremely limber and regularly uses gymnastics as part of his fighting style.

While I love the Saiyan-Namek and Androids-Cell sagas, it's clear that the animation has evolved a lot in Super and there's more focus on their techniques. Of course there are exceptions.

I'd love to hear which Vegeta fights other people like?

#vegeta #broly #dbs #vegeta vs broly #vegeta dbs #broly dbs #vegeta fighting #dbs gif #dbz gif #vegeta dbz

[fanfic-lover-girl]

DBZ Thoughts: Yamcha Deserved Better

So I got into Dragonball because I grudgingly watched Kai on Nicktoons with my brother. My complaints became faker as the Frieza saga thickened and before I knew it, I fell in love with the series. Sometime later, I discovered Dragonball and watched that series as well. I think I watched GT after DB.

Since I watched DBZ first, I cared little for the human characters. I liked Piccolo because of his relationship with Gohan. And I enjoyed Krillin in the Namek/Frieza saga and I felt sad when he died. But I didn't really CARE. Tien and Yamcha were afterthoughts. I thought Chiaotzu was lame and a waste of space. All I cared about were the Saiyans.

But then I watched Dragonball and I fell in love with the human characters. So much magic and wonder. I like DBZ but Dragonball hits differently.

Anyway, I liked Yamcha. Was never a huge fan but I have really begun to feel sorry for the guy especially since my love for Vegebul has kind of faded a bit. I admit that even in the height of my Vegebul fanfic days as a teenage girl, I felt super uncomfortable or annoyed reading fics where Yamcha was painted as a loser, abuser or cheater. I hated how fanfic writers treated Yamcha like trash to make Vegeta look better. People out here trying to make Yamcha into a monster to make Vegeta, the guy who beat on Gohan in the previous two sagas and killed a village of Namekians with sadistic glee, look good :(. Now that I look back on it, I was reading trash!

Intro aside, I wanted to reflect on some ways that Yamcha could have been treated better in the series (DB and DBZ). I think Yamcha is a great character already and he does not need to be a bloodthirsty Saiyan to be amazing...but just some small things that could give him some more wins.

Dragonball: Yamcha vs Tien as the semi-finals fight

Yamcha's fight showcased Tien's cruelty. Roshi's fight symbolized the older generation being surpassed by the younger. But would the story change all that much if the fights were switched? Give Yamcha a chance to make it to the semis and use it as a storytelling device to show that Yamcha is catching up to Roshi as well. I think the story could have been even stronger if Tien was shown to surpass the older generation but then showed his cruelty.

DBZ: Bulma & Yamcha's breakup ending more amicably

I HATE how many Vegebul fans treat Yamcha. Yamcha is a good man and Bulma was always the abusive and unfaithful one in the relationship. I was not a huge Bulma fan in DB. Honestly, I don't think I truly liked Bulma until she got with Vegeta and became a mom. Anyway, why is it necessary to paint Yamcha as a cheater to pave the way for Vegebul? There are many ways for people to break up! The breakup could be a mutual thing where they decide they are better as friends (just look at their sibling vibe in the Buu saga). Maybe Future Trunks' arrival causes Yamcha to be more insistent on marriage and family and Bulma does not feel ready for the commitment. Maybe Yamcha walks away because he can't stand Bulma being friendly with the guy responsible for his murder. So many ways to paint Yamcha, and even Bulma, in a better light so that Yamcha does not look like the loser beta male who lost in the love triangle.

#pro yamcha #yamcha deserved better #dragon ball #dbz #dragon ball z #vegebul #anti vegebul fanfiction #vegebul critical #yamcha #yamcha vs tien shinhan #yambul #bulma briefs #vegeta #android saga #22nd World Martial Arts Tournament #tien shinhan #dbz thoughts #yambul breakup

[z0-ne]

May I request a Goku sister reade, where the reader is Goku's half sister they both have the same father but a different mom so he doesn't know her but later on king Kai tells them they need to find her cause she will help them fight since she's strong, so shes half sayian and half another race, her race are very calm and powerful people let's call them (race name) she's really strong and smart also pretty calm :O

Thank you for the request! I'm not sure which arc you wanted this to be so I decided to make it a little earlier on in the series (Near end of SAIYAN SAGA) (and begining of NAMEK SAGA) so the reader still gets to meet goku and gohan pretty young! Hope that's okay!

Siblings (Platonic!) (Goku x Older! Sister! Reader!)

"You said what!?"

Goku suddenly yelled out, not believing the information that was being told before he would be offically wished back to earth to fight the saiyans.

"Yes, believe it or not, you have an older sister. She's incredibly strong."

King kai expected this outburst from him, and responded to it calmly with his hands folded behind his back and looking up at goku like he usually did.

Goku leaned forward and pointed to himself, wanting to make sure king kai was actually reffering to him at the time rather than someone else who just looks like him.

"Not to point out the obvious king kai but- uh- I haven't exactly had the best experiences with family, especially with older siblings."

This seemed to enrage King kai as he frantically moved his arms around in the air as he scolded goku.

"I know that! This ones different though!" Quickly gaining his composure, King Kai turned away from goku and cleared his throat before he spoke again.

"This woman will benefit you as long as she is on your side. Goku you must find her and let her know you're her sibling."

As series as Goku knew he should've taken all of this, he couldn't help but find it strange that this woman didn't go with raditz to find him and why he had to find her instead.

"Okayyy but, How is she gonna know it's me and I'm not lying to her?"

A vein in King Kai's head popped up, and goku just kept talking despite it being slightly obvious that he was over staying his welcome a little. "If anything it sounds like you just want me to walk up to her like raditz and expect her to believe me."

"JUST GO FIND HER!"

That yell was enough to finally get him to take a hint and quit talking. It was honestly better for them all if he just waited for his friends to wish him back.

Hopefully by then, and maybe after the fight with the Saiyans things would be cleared up for him.

-____________________________ 'Okay, let's see...(Name)...(Name)...Are you there?'

A familiar strange voice called you from the sky while you were in the middle of gardening.

Unlike your late father and step family, your planet was not only free from alien overlords, but was also left to it's peaceful ways and calm nature.

The only issue was that you weren't able to travel with your father, seven long years you had known him and he still left you to your uncaring mother who was frightened by your strength and sent you away.

You were a monster in her eyes.

It was great that you had a grandmother to care for you, and accept you despite your weird strength and odd appetite, but even she would leave sooner that you would've liked for her to.

"Oh? Hello there strange man from the sky." You went back to your gardening, this voice was one you had talked to a long time ago. A near death experience that actually encouraged you to take the more relaxed side of your bloodline rather than the Saiyan side. It was actually a good thing you did that.

It helped to clear you mind, so when you did train you also managed to exceed in areas your father possibly couldnt before he had you, and then dissapered.

"Is there news on my father?" 'I'm sorry. Unfortunately he's dead...he's been dead for years now..' After the voice told you that, you simply let out a little 'Oh' and turned back to your gardening. While it looked like you weren't effected by it, you were just ignoring how hurt you actually were.

He wasn't the best father, but while he was there he spent time with you. Trained you, and showed you slight kindness when he could manage it.

It hurt you a little to know that he was dead now.

"Well..was it at least painless?" 'I cannot say, but I can tell you that he didn't leave you alone. You have two more brothers, one evil and dead but the other is alive and well!'

This caught your attention, and caused you to glance up at the sky for a quick second.

You were a little angry before you calmed down and grew curious. He left you and made a whole new life, with new children only to die without possibly sparing you another thought.

It made you wonder if he ever cared enough to remember you after he left at all.

"Well, what does he look like? Who is he?" 'His name is goku. He's the spitting image of your father, and he will arrive in five months from now.'

You hummed before giving a verbal response and saying farewell to eachother. While you were pulling the weeds from your garden, the only thing on your mind was everything you just learned.

He was never in love with your mother, that you knew.

Still. You thought he at least grew to think of you as what you were, his daughter. Only to find out he left for years, never came back, and started a new life.

"The spitting image of my father.." You could feel yourself getting more and more upset as you mumbled and repeated those words from the man in the sly. That sadness mixed with your rage became distracting.

So distracting that you didn't realize your ki had rised, and it started to effect the enviornment around you.

Blowing things out the way, shoving some animals a few feet away from you, throwing little stones around and slightly shifting the purple grass underneath your knees.

"My father.."

"That bastard.." You randomly reached out and ripped something clean out the ground. It felt too deeply rooted to be a weed so it snapped you out of your rage.

When your vision cleared, you saw that it was not a weed, but it was on of your flowers that you had planted there and taken care of for some months.

You gasped, all your rage subsiding as a horrified look took over your face.

"No! My tulips!"

_____________________________________

(Five Months later)

Five months. It had offically been five months since you've last heard from the man in the sky, and five months that you've been training to meet this younger brother of yours.

Maybe you might be directing your newfound resentment towards your father to the wrong person, but even if it turns out that you don't want to fight him.

It was too late to even have second thoughts about what you were doing because today was the day that he was coming around to your planet and meet you.

As you stood there, hands crossed over your stomach, shoulders relaxed, eyes lowered slightly and watching as the giant spaceship land infront of you.

Slightly burning the grass as the flames at the bottom of the ship got closer to the ground before shutting off as a whole. Then there was a door that opened, and from the corners of the ship, you saw someone with large eyes and spikey black hair.

They peaked down at you from the top of ship, and then they jumped down after yelling something inaudible due to how far away from you they were.

When he landed infront of you, and you got a good look at him you could feel yourself getting upset all over again.

He really was the spitting image of your father.

"Hey! I'm Goku! You must be my sister, right?"

He introduced himself, and pointed at you as he slowly approached.

You were cold to him and stepped back, not changing your stance but you did rise your ki slightly, and it caught him off guard.

"I am."

He paused for a moment, and you thought you had him stuck.

Only for him to extend his arms and wrap them around you, picked you up off the ground and just held you there for a bit.

"Good to meet you!"

He said as he put you down and left you a little stunned. He looked like your father, but this man acted absolutely nothing like him! Your father was a cold man. Hardly smiled, held you, hugged you, or even told you he loved and cared for you. Sometime it seemed like he cared for you, but really all you did was train under him.

"Come on! Let's go, we've gotta hurry to Namek!" "Namek? Why Namek? To destroy it?"

You asked as you followed him inside the large ship, and he turned to look at you with a confused look on his face. It made you think that you said something abnormal.

He was a sayain after all, it was in his nature as far as you knew.

"Huh? No, to save my friends! Actually, you've got a nephew there!" "A Nephew?"

You questioned as you walked around the spaceship with him, the doors closing behind you, and the lights coming on after it shut and locked. "Yeah, his name is Gohan, and he's really strong. I'm sure you'll like him!"

He smiled as he talked about his son, and went on to tell you about earth. His human wife, and all his friends. Apparently he even died once and came back.

You would question that logic later.

As he went on to talk about everything, to keep you updated on everything and everyone you'd be meeting, fighting and possibly saving with how rough Namek sounds.

"What about you? King Kai didn't tell me everything about you, so I wanna know!" You were shocked that he asked, but answered him none the less.

You told it just how Goku told his, from the start to the very end. Not every last detail, but you told him enough so he had an idea as to what you might've went through.

After you finished, he was sympathetic, and even apologized. It caught you off guard and made you look at him odd. He was frowing and his eyebrows were furrowed.

Goku wasn't rude at all, actually now that you were talking to him it seemed like your feelings of resentment, anger, and sadness completely dissapered.

He man that stood before you was absoluetly nothing like your father

You started laughing, and he looked at you as you continued to laugh. It wasn't until he asked you if something he said was funny that you finally stopped long enough to answer.

"You may look like our father, but you're nothing like him."

"Is..that a good thing?"

"It's a great thing Goku. If anything, that raditz fellow is more like our father than you." "Oh thats good! Also- Not good- was our dad evil?"

Sorry for the long wait!

#goku #dbz x reader #dbz fanfiction #dragon ball z x reader #x y/n #platonic love #sister brother #pls do not read this and think romace #anime #x reader #dragon ball z #goku x reader

[allseeinganalyst]

What is your favorite Bulma outfit or hairstyle?

Oh boy this is actually my first as and what a question…

Bulma looks good in ALL her looks— I��m especially fond of her short hair— Her Super look is amazing as well as the shorter hair she sports toward the end of Dragon Ball and DBZ but if I really had to pick only one…

Her Namek hair is iconic! As is her hair in the Android/Cell Sagas… that short-ish, bob-ish look is gorgeous on her!

As for outfits, she looks great in anything. I’m especially fond of her Broly puffy outfit because she’s just… REALLY cute (and I like puffy clothing…)

And her regular outfit in that movie isn’t exactly nasty either like… look at her…

But again, if I could only pick ONE… this

This this this this THIS THIS

As a side note, the answer to this question was nearly just THIS, flat. It’s a borderline perfect look for her. Short hair, bright, colourful, has the neck scarf (a perfect accessory for her!) and she just looks like even more of a 999/10 than normal. If I wasn’t kinda partial to her Namek hair, it’d be an easy answer. God, just LOOK AT HER.

Anyway I am the #1 Bulma fan, and she doesn’t really have a bad look, but getting to answer this question was a delight. Thank you so much!

#personal #Bulma #uhh I need a tag for asks #uhm #Ask the Analyst #there we go

[hi-there-buddies]

I don’t understand people who say “Vegeta should’ve gotten ssj2 after Cell killed Trunks”

Like legitimately

Do you know how fucking lame that would’ve made ssj2 look? We have years and years of hindsight to see just how cool and how much of an upgrade ssj2 was, but that’s ONLY because Gohan was the only one to unlock it in the Cell saga. If Vegeta got ssj2 like, 5 episodes after Gohan, it would’ve thrown literally ALL of Gohan’s development and Goku’s foreshadowing in the trash. Ssj2 is supposed to be unique to Gohan, in the same way ssj was unique to Goku. Sure, other people achieved it in later arcs, but the arc that had the first transformation and the person involved in said transformation will always be the one associated with the form.

To have two characters achieve the same fabled form in the same arc would be wildly anticlimactic. It’s like saying Gohan should’ve gone SSJ on Namek after Piccolo got shot and after Krillin died. Like ya, that could’ve been something that happened, and it makes sense since Piccolo and Krillin protected and helped raise him, but that would literally destroy all the buildup Toriyama had for SSJ.

And then there are the people that say Vegeta “deserved” ssj2

NO HE DID NOT.

He was an asshole who nearly got everyone killed for his own pride up until the cell games😭. He doesn’t just randomly deserve to get a power up because he decided to finally care about his son as he dies. Now, did he deserve to do some damage to Cell? Absolutely, especially because he acknowledged the fact that he had been ignoring Trunks until he died, and apologized to Gohan for getting his arm hurt. And that’s why his final blow to Cell giving Gohan an opening to kill him is a perfectly fine conclusion. But Vegeta did not deserve to get ssj2. This isn’t buu saga or super Vegeta we’re talking about. He was a complete and utter jerk until Goku and Trunks died.

(I also saw ppl get mad at Krillin for yelling at Vegeta for attacking cell. Which is odd because that’s a huge trope subversion for dragon ball. Usually the characters cheer another character on after a rage boost and expect them to win. But Krillin knew exactly how strong Cell was and he knew whatever Vegeta tried to do would only make it worse for everyone else. WHICH IT DID BTW. IT WAS VEGETA’S FAULT GOHAN’S ARM GOT FUCKED)

Ok rant over bye

#dbz #db #dragon ball #dragon ball z #Vegeta #krillin #gohan #Goku #cell saga #cell #perfect cell #people be dickriding Vegeta way to hard in this fandom #they forget that he was a genuinely bad person up until the end of the cell saga #did he deserve to get angry? ya #did he deserve to hurt cell? sure #did he deserve ssj2? of course not #also I think people need to realize they can understand Vegeta’s anger and also understand Krillin’s anger at the same time #you don’t have to pick a side bestie #Vegeta watched his son die #ya he’s gonna be mad #krillin was watching a guy he knew was like a hundred times weaker than cell try to fight him #he allowed to be annoyed lmao #I WOULD BE TOO #LIKE TF VEGETA YOU COULDNT FIGHT ONE OF HIS CHILDREN BEFORE HE CAME BACK TWICE AS STRONG #😭

[cxldtyrant]

@synthetixflora asked: Y'know, speaking of MasakoX, how do you feel about the concept of Cooler being "good"?

I won't outright dismiss the idea, because I would enjoy Cooler going through character development and becoming a more morally grey character who could potentially ally with the heroes down the line. But to have him outright be "good" is boring and has little depth. Now, don't get me wrong, because characters like Tien and Piccolo pulled it off pretty well, but when you keep using the same formula over and over again, it eventually starts to get very, very dull. Like with Vegeta.

I personally found Vegeta more enjoyable as a character during the Freeza and Cell Saga when he was still a complete bastard who did horrible things and reveled in it, but needed to align with the heroes for a common goal, and we got to see this complex character who could be a sadistic asshole with little regard towards life, but also someone who cares deeply about certain things but has a completely fucked up way of showing it. The scene where he dies on Namek by Freeza's hands, crying and pleading with Goku to avenge the Saiyan race after initially being so cold towards their genocide was easily the best moment of his character to me, and while he had plenty of good moments in the Cell Saga, they never quite peaked to that moment.

He was still pretty interesting in the Buu Saga too, but I find I can hardly enjoy him there with how the fandom waters him down, and especially with how Super follows up on his character after that. He lost a lot of his charm for me when he became more traditionally heroic (if grumpy, because isn't that what every g-rated anti-hero is?).

Cooler is someone who I can't ever see becoming completely "good", or at least good in the traditional sense because I love the idea of Arcosians having a different concept of right or wrong (let aliens have alien concepts, Dragon Ball writers!). But I could develop him towards an "enemy mine" situation and lessening his xenophobic tendencies. It would take a long while for him to get over his particularly hatred towards Saiyans, but he could do it someday. Maybe.

#[synthetixflora] #[inquiry; response] #[musings; hidden depths] #[Cooler doesn't even see himself as evil by his standards but his moral compass is very alien compared to Earth's concepts] #[but I would be down to develop him towards a more...neutral character?] #[like a darker shade of grey character] #[I think that could be pretty fun down the line]

[fat-hedonistic-hogs]

All jokes aside I think more dbz stuff should use the weird and random techniques from the franchise. Especially when there multiple iterations of a character in the game.

Like saiyan saga vegeta's fire ball or namek goku's evil eyes...

#mun speaks #mun rambles

[cozymochi]

never watch the original z sagas (especially namek) then turn on and watch every movie from the super era, worst mistake of my life

#cozy ask #dbposting #new tag ig #has it been long enough to say those films were actually pretty bad 😭 #its been a decade #half a decade for one even #that WAS NOT. g o k u ……holy sh- #im never watching dbs holy crud. #i couldnt survive it if those were the fruits #BoG notwithstanding but it did set up a deadly mix. #DBSSH was pretty good tho… SAVE FOR THE TWO SCENES— #was nobody in that writers room to tell blud that he wasn’t cooking #LISTEN im rewatching the normal show for fun and wanted to finish off the movies and - #oh no.

[basedkikuenjoyer]

Oh darn, I forgot my queue ran dry. But it's a nice, rainy day off and an old story has been on my mind. Let's call it Thursday Afternoon Toriyamaposting this time. I like Dragon Ball. Especially colloquially to mean I like the part where Goku's a weird kid from the mountains. The Z arcs have some fun parts but it's just such a roadmap for what I don't like in anime in others but I loved early Dragonball. It has a magic that made it so popular, really hitting at that common trend of popular manga featuring a clash between old and new. The Red Ribbon Army saga is where that fully feels like it comes o fruition which is why I love it so much.

It all starts with Muscle Tower, which like a certain first act I'm extraordinarily fond of works as an overture. This little moment has always been a favorite though. Girl save Goku, tells him of troubles, he sprints off to smash them, a young Eiichiro Oda is taking notes. But here Goku stops and figures out what snow is for the first time. The theme won't fully mature until the great side story of going to the city to find Bulma but it's here. Up until now Dragonball's world was hard to get a good grasp on. The Red Ribbon Army was a great vehicle to solidify that through. What technology they had, their operations beyond the magic balls that could make Red taller. Talking about inspiration, I wonder how much Toriyama took from Cyborg 009 here. That one wasn't afraid to rip from ongoing Cold War headlines, but the RRA clearly draws from the Axis Powers. Which by that point felt quaint and campy. Seriously, even the relatively clean landmark Japanese manga of the 80s has the hero dunking on foppish Germans and Japanese caricatures. Speaking of.

Then you have this weird usage of a past series. Arale and Penguin Village just end up being a theater of combat because fuck you that's awesome. Goku should have brought Arale to Namek. Look how fearsome she is. But honestly, also cool how the Red Ribbon Army keeps coming back. My favorite part of Z is when we're dealing with rogue androids of their making. Because you have 8 in this early part of the original arc it ends up being one of the most brilliant connections in the whole series. Saw they had come up again in Super, probably need to check that out.

#dragon ball #dragonball #akira toriyama #red ribbon army #thursday afternoon toriyamaposting

[supergito]

i wish more people (read: vegebul fans who think their marriage is "perfect") talked about bulma's casual racism towards the saiyans. especially since she herself is married to one...and has kids that are half saiyan....

inb4 someone says "dbz kakarot just added this in" - she directly insults vegeta as being a "thickheaded ape" post namek saga in the anime too, so it's *not* like this behavior from her is new.

#dragon ball #bulma #saiyans #fandom discourse #( whats esp egregious abt this is that vegeta just LETS her say shit like that ) #( like sorry but i think vegeta; whos full of pride towards his race & of being a saiyan ) #( would *ic* take issue with anyone; even his ''wife''; calling him unintelligent because of his blood ) #( like he obv didnt like being called a monkey by frieza & his goons. he was subjected to that & ) #( overall being a slave for DECADES btw; just as a reminder. he would not switch up from that )

[blueper-saiyan]

Okay so I just want to say about your Vegeta caring about Krillin and Gohan post, that you're kind of overlooking some very important reasons about why Vegeta was looking out for them. The first time he runs into them, he discovers that they had some dragon balls, and threatens to kill krillin over it. When he then finds gohan, he mock's the kid's father, hits him, and then spells out that he's only sparing gohan due to believing he's only minutes away from immortality. he was actually on his way TO KILL gohan and krillin when he found out gohan denied him his wish, only stopping bc he sensed guru powering up gohan. he then only teams up with krillin and gohan bc he knows how dangerous the ginyu force is. to spell it out: once they got all the dragon balls, not only does krillin and gohan betray him, but vegeta also internally thinks to himself how they're fools and he's gonna wish for immortality and be done with them.

when he finds out that they screwed him over AGAIN, he's clearly going to follow through his intention to try and kill them until krillin agrees to get dende to make him immortal. while vegeta is (somewhat hypocritically) astonished with the beat down frieza is giving gohan, he STILL tries to leave them both to die once frieza's far more powerful in his second form than he expected. Not take them both with him, but leave them to die while he escapes. Given Krillin and Gohan were both boosted, he thought of them as useful tools to survive and beat frieza, which was why he told krillin not to help gohan to instead give HIM a zenkai boost.

tldr; Vegeta was being very pragmatic, but the actual level of care is minimal- and therefore more consistent with how he treats raditz and nappa.

Sorry to just dump this in your inbox. but i just disagree with vegeta's intentions are woobified by so many fans, in namek and saiyan saga he was the same level of ruthless, just more pragmatic in namek by necessity. while there could be implied care for gohan, krillin and vegeta aren't at all friends, especially considering all the times krillin has admitted he thought vegeta should die (in the saiyan saga, vs zarbon, and after cell becomes perfect)

like vegeta is a BAD person. he's selfish and would've killed more people had he gotten the chance during those two arcs, and it bothers me when people think him not being a dick at EVERY opportunity equates to him being kind or caring.

Don't worry, I'm aware that Vegeta wanted to backstab Krillin and Gohan. Honestly, when I wrote the post I thought I was giving Vegeta a little too much sympathy and I did consider adding the times he thought about killing Krillin and Gohan to make it fair, but I decided that bogged down the post when the actual question was “why did Vegeta expend more effort on preserving Krillin and Gohan's lives than Raditz and Nappa's when he’d known the former for 1 month and the latter for 25 years?”

Honestly, I think that parkergeorg has a solid explanation of it. Hopefully that has logic that works better for you, since it comes down to it being situational and a result of Vegeta actually being concerned enough about Freeza to realize he needs allies rather than taking allies for granted/using them as a demonstration of how strong he is.

I will say that although you're right about most of Vegeta being shitty to Krillin and Gohan (trying to kill them before the team up, plotting to kill them after they'd teamed up, going to go kill them once they'd taken the dragon balls), this part:

"he STILL tries to leave them both to die once frieza's far more powerful in his second form than he expected. Not take them both with him, but leave them to die while he escapes."

is anime filler, and I'm not even sure if it made it into Kai? It's definitely not in the manga; Vegeta doesn't try and leave the fight. He definitely did do all of those other terrible things though.

"tldr; Vegeta was being very pragmatic, but the actual level of care is minimal- and therefore more consistent with how he treats raditz and nappa."

I'm cool with that explanation. I still think that he put more effort into keeping Gohan alive than Raditz or Nappa, because there was genuinely no reason to save Gohan from fourth form Freeza, or alert them to where Freeza was, but I'd accept that Vegeta's willingness to backstab them both balances it out. I should have been more explicit in the original post that "there wasn't a difference in how he treated them" was a valid response. I do think there's a recognizable difference, but that doesn't mean you have to agree with me.

"Sorry to just dump this in your inbox. but i just disagree with vegeta's intentions are woobified by so many fans, in namek and saiyan saga he was the same level of ruthless, just more pragmatic in namek by necessity."

I don't mind, don't worry. I have seen what you mean about woobifying him, I find it annoying even though I occasionally do it myself (probably inevitable for a favorite character), and that wasn't what the intent of the post was. I did try and propose the purely pragmatic explanations of Vegeta's behavior, but I guess I didn't give it as much focus. I will say that I still think he's lying when he says he doesn't care/that he saved them to show off/whatever, but as parkersgeorg pointed out, the lie doesn't have to be to cover for caring for them in a way that involves actual concern for others. He could just as easily be avoiding admitting that he might need help later because that's humiliating and he's supposed to need no one.

"like vegeta is a BAD person. he's selfish and would've killed more people had he gotten the chance during those two arcs, and it bothers me when people think him not being a dick at EVERY opportunity equates to him being kind or caring."

I know he's awful, it's a solid part of what makes him compelling as a character. It makes the times where he chooses not to be awful more interesting by contrast, which is why I made the original post, along with the comparison to how he treated his other allies. However, you're right that there's a reasonable enough pragmatic explanation for trying to keep Gohan and Krillin alive, barring the final save with Gohan, and that could still be argued as preserving an ally in case he needs him later. I certainly wouldn't call his actions kind or caring even if he did save them out of respect instead of pragmatism though. When I say care, I mean it also in the sense that I care when my favorite tools break, but it's certainly not the way I care about a person. It covers a wide range of emotional investment, that he could be at any level of.

There's another post around somewhere that points out that because we expect Vegeta to be the worst all the time, when he doesn't live all the way down to those expectations it's a pleasant surprise, so it feels like he's done way better than less than the bare minimum. That's what causes the phenomena you've noticed. However, I'm still curious about when/why he is a dick and when/why he isn't a dick, as well as wtf is going on with his worldview, so I made the post, and I got some interesting explanations out of it. I think your perspective on it is worthwhile too so I'll post this.

[dailycupofcreativitea]

Hello I love your blog so much and I was curious- how do you think Teen Gohan coped with the fact he killed someone? Specifically his father. After the Cell Saga of course. Like would he hve preferred he was dead instead of Goku?

^^"

Hey, thank you so much! And sorry I didn't get around to this sooner, it has been stewing on the back of my mind for ages and I wanted to draw something for it but couldn't come up with anything concrete...

ANYWAYS

I am very, very torn on interpretations for this tbh and swing many ways. I've read all the fanfiction and seen all the fanart, from Gohan being basically on the verge of suicide (I don't like those fics, but I've read them) to Gohan being overjoyed because he hated his father apparently (I, unfortunately, liked those at one point...) to Gohan having normal reactions and everything in between. Depending on my mood and the goal I want to accomplish in a story, the way I prefer he react changes. I also think many different interpretations sound more or less canon; I don't really have a staunch canon interpretation.

That being said, if you were to ask me right now I'd probably say...well, even now I'm torn XD My brain is thinking a few things:

He was fine, albeit a bit guilty at times. Goku made it clear to him during the Cell Saga fight that it wasn't his fault, that Gohan should direct his anger to Cell instead, that Goku was having a lot of fun with King Kai, etc. And it's true that without Gohan, the Earth wouldn't have been saved. And Gohan has lots of other support in his life: Chichi, Piccolo, Krillin primarily but also the others, and they would beat him up the moment they notice he's blaming himself again. So I think he mostly thinks about his father in a positive light: reminiscing on good times, feeling nostalgic, appreciating his father for protecting him, especially on Namek against Freiza (which seems to have impacted Gohan the most), and just generally thinking fondly of Goku, not having it tainted by memories of the Cell Games.

He felt guilty, but hid it well. This comes out in some DBZ games I think...there was that one game that had Cell come back and Gohan got angry at Cell, telling him he killed Goku, but Cell threw it back at him, and Gohan got angrier but clearly still beat himself up for it. In DBZ Kakarot, Piccolo calls Gohan out for still blaming himself for his dad's death, and Gohan decides to keep the Super Saiyan hair for a while to process his dad's death and his new role as protector. I think this Gohan channels his guilt into trying to be the new protector of Earth (in a self-destructive way, like "why can't I be stronger?" or "I have to be stronger so that doesn't happen again" kind of way), except that just makes him uneasy because Gohan's not like Goku and taking on the burden of being Earth's sole protector is a lot for him.

Gohan does say something like "I wish it would've been me" right after Goku dies. So I think it's plausible that this feeling comes back time to time, but I see this feeling coming back for any of the survivors (I'm sure Krillin's felt the same multiple times for multiple people).

Sorry for the essay LOL but those are my thoughts! Hope I answered your question and thanks again for the ask (and sorry for the long wait!).

Oh, to add: Gohan doesn’t like killing people, but Gohan has killed before. I don’t really know what Gohan thinks about the people he killed, but a lot of them were grunts and a lot of it was in self-defense -- I don’t think it keeps him up at night. Or maybe it does? I don’t have concrete interpretations for this, but part of me thinks it’s just par for the course of being an overpowered half-Sayian forced to protect his friends and save the world against genocidal villains...

#asks #this was SUCH a loaded question omg #in a good way #but wow i have no coherent thoughts

[fanfic-lover-girl]

Second-Born Saiyan Hybrids Have Lazy Designs

I love how Toriyama gave Gohan and Trunks qualities from both their parents.

Gohan is a bit tricky because his parents have similar colouring. He mostly resembles Goku but there is something about his face (maybe the chin?) that he gets from his mom that prevents him from looking like a Goku copy. Also, I find it interesting that during the Namek arc, when he has that bowl cut, his hair resembles his mom's! He also tends to have paler skin like his mom. And we can safely say that Gohan gets his rage boost tendency from her too. I will never stop saying this: Gohan is the best Saiyan hybrid. I will not take criticism.

Trunks is also an awesome mix of both his parents. He has Vegeta's skin tone and facial features but the Briefs family colouring. Future Trunks seems to have inherited the family smarts given he was able to read 17's design plans in Dr. Gero's lab. And Kid Trunks has Vegeta's cockiness in spades and teenage Bulma's too-cool-for-school attitude. Too bad my boy Future Trunks did not get a tail :(

But their siblings are just boring carbon copies of one parent.

Goten is a mini-Goku. He has Goku's simple nature, his naivete, and his innocence. He looks almost exactly like Kid Goku. I don't mind that but I see no traces of Chi Chi in him. Given that Chi Chi was the only parent he knew, I would expect at least something from her to rub off on him. I am struggling to see any resemblance with Kid Chi Chi but my mind is drawing a blank. I wish his character could have been explored more in GT besides being a guy who likes dating. Maybe explore his daddy issues or something.

And Bulla/Bra is honestly a waste of space character like Marron. She is a mini-Bulma with none of the charm and genius to go with her. She's a spoilt daddy's princess who loves shopping and that's it. She looks to have Vegeta's jawline(???) but I don't see anything of Vegeta in her. She could be Yamcha's daughter for how little of a Saiyan hybrid she is. I hate all the DB next-gen girls!!! Especially Bulla! At least Marron has the excuse of being the fully human daughter of a guy who lost battle relevance by the Cell saga. And Pan left her safety bubble to be useful against threats and she had a great fighter spirit. Why the hell is Bulla even here in the story!

It's like Toriyama could not be bothered to make the second-born kids their own character and give them interesting designs and personalities like their siblings. Goten deserved better writing. Bulla can die for all I care.

#saiyan hybrids #anti bra briefs #anti bulla briefs #bulla briefs #trunks briefs #future trunks #mirai trunks #son gohan #son goku #son chichi #chi chi #dragonball gt #dragon ball #dragon ball z #dbz #call me a misogynist i don't care #marron and bra could drop dead and the story would be the same #pan is somewhat decent but still a huge dissapointment