#he was in a precarious position he was rebuilding his sect after it had been destroyed completely like it's not just abt the other sects | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

crossdressingdeath · 3 years

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Is the excuse "JC is rebuilding LP and thus, can't be asked for help regarding the Wen remnants since the sect is in a precarious situation" a valid one? Because that's commonly used in fix-it fics, that's why they (WWX+Wens) turn to the Lans and sometimes, Nies.

It is really, very, extremely not valid. Because uh. Here's the thing. Lotus Pier was already rebuilt by the time WWX left. JC didn't have to slowly make money from nothing, because a) everything the Wens took from Yunmeng would've been returned on WRH's defeat and b) reparations are in fact a thing. What, do the people writing these fics think the Wen sect's coffers just evaporated? Or that JC didn't get any of the Wens' money, and yet the Jiangs are somehow still considered a great sect even though he didn't have the power or respect required to get money after a member of the Jiang sect pretty much singlehandedly turned the tide of the war? Literally all he had to do was hire some people to fix up any damage done to the buildings. Which I'm pretty sure was minimal anyway, because the Wens were living there and presumably not living in a burned-down wreck. Hell, the Lans would've had considerably more rebuilding to do because the Cloud Recesses were actually burned down. And yet apparently the Lans do have the resources to help WWX but JC doesn't? Even though the Lans are in pretty much the exact same position as the Jiangs (sect attacked by the Wens, serious casualties and damage done, extremely new sect leader with all support scattered or dead) with just fewer casualties. Sure, okay. And he'd have to get more disciples, but just WWX's presence would've done a lot for that before he left and the sect seems to be doing fine in terms of people before WWX goes. The Jiang sect was doing perfectly well before WWX left.

And uh... here's the other thing, that people forget. If JC didn't have the resources to not ACTIVELY LIE AND BETRAY WWX then he didn't have the resources to lead a siege against him. If JC could gather the men to lead an army against the Burial Mounds, he could gather the men to offer WWX protection. If he had the respect from the other sects to be named leader of the siege, he had the respect from the other sects to demand an investigation. These people never question the assumption that apparently JC couldn't so much as not actively make WWX's situation worse, but he had the power and authority to lead an army to kill him. At best that suggests that he must have all but begged to lead the siege and the other sects took pity on him, but more likely... yeah, he could've interceded on WWX's behalf at any point and deliberately chose not to. Also, once again! If JC wanted to help WWX but couldn't, he would not have done everything in his power to convince the sects that WWX was a traitor raising an army of Wens to attack them, and he would have explicitly stated that these Wens are the only reason his sect survived. He just wanted WWX dead, guys! It's not that deep!

#mdzs #grapehate

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red-talisman · 4 years

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An unbetaed snippet of post-CQL canon Yunmeng reconciliation, which is mostly extremely morbid and blunt conversation after beating each other hard enough that they’re too tired for their usual conflicting modes of emotional avoidance.

EDIT: now edited and posted on AO3. :D

CW for past suicidal ideation. Part of my “let WWX express some of his cynical humor and creepiness more often” and “let WWX find out about JC’s own sacrifice goddamnit” agendas.

___________________

Jiang Cheng stares blankly into the trees, their trunks slowly disappearing in the deepening darkness of twilight. Wei Wuxian’s back is warm against his and heaving for breath just as heavily. He thinks his ankle might be broken, but Wei Wuxian is probably worse off.

“You’re an asshole,” Wei Wuxian says thickly.

“Hypocrite,” Jiang Cheng mutters without heat, and Wei Wuxian manages a snort between his gasps.

“Yeah.” After a moment, he adds, with an echo of the old Yiling Laozu in his voice, “You know that if you ever do something like that again, I’ll probably find a way to do something worse than I did before.”

“If I do what, save your life by pulling the same fucking sacrificial shit that you do?”

“I swear to every god out there that I will bring you back as a fierce corpse and kill you myself,” Wei Wuxian says in a pleasant, albeit still somewhat breathless, tone. “I will dismember your carcass and make Jin Guangyao look like a fucking amateur.”

“Good thing Mo Xuanyu’s core isn’t worth shit, then,” Jiang Cheng replies. All of his attention is focused on the feeling of his brother’s bones and muscles moving against his own spine.

“You’re an asshole.”

“Yeah.”

There’s a pause. Somewhere distant Jiang Cheng hears the panicked yells of what’s probably the juniors they left behind a few li back. Then Wei Wuxian sighs. “We’re really fucked up.”

Jiang Cheng takes his time considering and discarding several possible responses. His ankle hurts like a bitch; Mo Xuanyu’s core may not be worth shit, but damn if his asshole genius brother hasn’t figured out how to make the most of it anyway. He finally settles on a tired, “Yeah.”

The silence stretches on long enough that Wei Wuxian goes on, more quietly, “You and Shijie are the only reason I didn’t die in the Burial Mounds. The Wens grabbed me before I knew whether or not you’d even survived the core transfer.”

Jiang Cheng tilts his head just enough to glance briefly over his shoulder. “How did you survive the Burial Mounds?”

“Nope, no, I’m not putting that on you. Not even Lan Zhan knows. I can’t...I can’t do that.”

“Fine. Then tell me, is any of it going to come back and bite us in the ass at the worst possible moment?” he asks dryly.

Wei Wuxian snorts, humorless. “Nah. It’s all mine.”

“Would you tell me if it wasn’t?”

When Wei Wuxian hesitates for a few telling seconds, Jiang Cheng mutters, “You fucking asshole.”

“Yeah.” Wei Wuxian sighs again.

“You left me.”

“You didn’t need me.”

“Who the fuck said that?”

The knobs of Wei Wuxian’s spine are starting to press painfully into Jiang Cheng’s. Wei Wuxian snorts. “I was practically a fierce corpse myself when I dragged myself out of the Burial Mounds. Your position as sect leader was too precarious,” he says bluntly. “You were seventeen years old with no real family, a sister who was getting married off anyway, and an adopted brother who’d been controversial years before the war even happened and who was clearly half-mad and getting worse. And I...my mind never really left the Mounds, honestly.” He coughs, makes a wet sound, and spits. “If I stayed much longer I was going to end up dragging you back into Hell with me. I was a risk you couldn’t afford and I wasn’t going to destroy Yunmeng Jiang a second time.”

"Don’t pull that bullshit, Wei Wuxian.” Jiang Cheng is so, so tired. “Mother was wrong. You know Wen Chao was looking for any excuse. You’re as responsible for that as our shidi was for using a round kite.”

Wei Wuxian doesn’t respond. Jiang Cheng makes a mental note to beat that nonsense out of him in the future, when he can lift his arms again and his ankle isn’t most likely broken.

But Jiang Cheng remembers what it was like to try turning weapons, human and sword alike, into tools of peace. There are still whole weeks of the Sunshot Campaign that are just smears of sense-memory: the cacophony of screams and curses; the reek of mass funeral pyres and the soft ash drifting through the air like black, silent snow; the startling warmth of being suddenly drenched in blood after Sandu sliced open another living human. Half the time he’d come back to himself laughing hysterically, unable to see anything through the tears on his face, and as the war dragged on, the tears eventually dried up. It had taken months afterwards to settle into the mindset of rebuilding for Lotus Pier. (If he’s honest with himself, he never really did settle there. There's always a part of him still dragging itself through mud made by blood spilled on battlefields and churned up by soldiers' boots.)

“Jin Ling’s the only reason I never actually killed myself after you died,” Jiang Cheng says. “...Don’t you ever tell him that.”

“Wait, what?” Wei Wuxian snaps.

“You saying I would’ve died without a core - it was never about not having a core, you idiot, not really.” Not to say that hadn’t hurt, and Jiang Cheng really doesn’t know how he would’ve managed life as a commoner. But there were still worse things to lose than a core, which had also just lost and was about to lose yet again. “I had a few ideas on how to do it, depending on where I was and what was available when I decided I might as well get it over with.” He huffs a brief laugh and idly rubs his thumb over Sandu’s hilt. “I thought poison might be a good option, if a little heavy-handed on the metaphor.”

“I’d be laughing,” Wei Wuxian says flatly, “if you weren’t talking about killing my little brother.”

“Am I?”

“You never stopped.”

The silhouettes of the trees start to blur in Jiang Cheng’s eyes. “You left. You left, and everyone died, and somehow I was responsible for keeping our sister’s baby alive while the wolves tried to eat what remained of our sect from every direction. You left.”

“I never wanted to.”

“But you did.”

“Because I didn’t see any other way to keep you safe.”

“Because you chose strangers over family.”

“Because I didn’t see any other way to keep you safe,” Wei Wuxian hisses. Apparently they’re not so exhausted that they can’t get pissed after all. “I was hardly human anymore, Jiang Cheng. If I was going to die, then at least I’d die actually managing to save innocent people this time around and you would be safe from me.”

“I never wanted you to do that for me!”

“And I never wanted you to do that for me!”

The tension that had them both struggling to sit up straight suddenly breaks, and their backs collide again. Jiang Cheng grits his teeth against the urge to groan over the pain that ricochets through his chest and down his limbs. He hears a muffled yelp from behind him.

“You’re a damned fucking asshole and you’re my fucking brother and I hate you and don’t you ever assume you know what I need again, do you understand me,” snarls Jiang Cheng.

“You’re the damned fucking asshole and if you ever do that again then I will brand a reminder into your flesh right over the scar from the discipline whip,” Wei Wuxian snaps back, because he's never held back from fighting dirty if he thought it necessary.

“Fine!”

“Fine.”

They both stare into the dark forest, in opposite directions. It sounds like the juniors have finally picked up their tracks. Useless, the whole lot - Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian hadn't exactly been subtle in stepping aside for a private conversation that inevitably escalated, how could it take the kids this long?

"Those dumbasses had better not forget that we're on a night-hunt," he says.

"Like we did?" Wei Wuxian replies.

"You started it."

"Did not."

"No, I'm not doing this with you."

"Hey, you started this one."

"Shut the fuck up."

They fall silent again. A cold breeze picks up and Jiang Cheng feels Wei Wuxian shiver, pressing back just a little more firmly against Jiang Cheng for warmth, and he...leans back too. Just a little.

"I'm still fucking pissed at you," says Wei Wuxian.

"And I've got years' worth to pay you back for," says Jiang Cheng.

"Fine."

"Sect Leader Jiang!" they hear. "Senior Wei!"

"If you don't show up for the mid-autumn festival," Jiang Cheng suddenly says, "I'll come drag you out of the Cloud Recesses by the heels."

"But the dogs - "

"Don't be an idiot. Jin Ling's dog is the only one allowed in Lotus Pier, you know that."

Well, come to think of it, Wei Wuxian probably doesn't know that, but whatever, now he does. Wei Wuxian is terrifyingly silent, but before Jiang Cheng can say something that will inevitably bring them back to throwing fists, he hears a quiet, "Yeah, okay."

"Do you think they killed each other?" they hear Lan Jingyi asking loudly. "I mean, Sandu Shengshou versus the Yiling Patriarch - who would win?"

"Don't be an idiot," retorts Jin Ling, and Wei Wuxian's body briefly shakes with a laugh. "My uncle, obviously."

"They're both your uncle, idiot!"

Jiang Cheng just sighs and lets his head fall back against Wei Wuxian’s shoulder.

#jiang cheng #wei wuxian #yunmeng bros #yunmeng reconciliation #through inappropriate and blunt conversation #this is not Trauma-Informed (TM)#i just wanted to vent some of my own feelings about them both #jukebox fic #mdzs

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hiddenawayforme · 4 years

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Cursed Sect Leader Yao Theory

(In which I make the case that Jiang Chang and Sect Leader Yao are more alike than you want to acknowledge and this gets long because I am apparently way too preoccupied with everyone but the main characters in The Untamed (as evidenced by my favorite Lan disciple and my favorite Jiang disciple))

The cultivators with the cute little hats are Yao Sect cultivators. Sect Yao, while not one of the five main sects, appears to have a significant amount of power and prestige in the cultivation world, similar to Sect Ouyang. Their sect leader is frequently given a front row seat to many of the cultivation world’s discussions, his opinion is given weight in debates, he is often seen in the presence of more powerful sect leaders, and he is capable of stirring public sentiment against his chosen opponent.

We first meet his disciples in the past at the Wen Indoctrination Camp. There, they are placed in rows equal to the other sect heirs and disciples. Their first disciple stands level with Nie Huaisang, Lan Wangji, Wei Wuxian, Jiang Cheng, and Jin Zixuan. Ouyang Sect disciples, in the red robes, are not afforded this front-row position.

(Note that it appears as though the Baling Ouyang Sect is the only other sect beside the Yao Sect and the four major sects to be forced to send disciples for indoctrination. Ouyang and Yao, while not part of the main five, are certainly higher than sects like Laoling Qin or Yueyang Chang)

The Yao Sect disciples are subjected to the same cruelty as the other sect disciples and are left for dead in the Xuanwu Cave along with our heroes. It is there that one disciple demonstrates his faith in his parents’ ability to save them (how adorable and tragic)

Alas, his parents do not come and save him. Instead, his fellow sect disciples are slaughtered by Wen soldiers as they flee back to their territory.

When Sect Leader Yao is brought to Lotus Pier, he is one of three survivors. By his own words, the rest of his sect has been brutally slaughtered by the Wen, including the disciples sent to the indoctrination camp. Sect Leader Yao’s severe wounds are a result of him fighting to protect the two who remain. That same earnest disciple who was so sure his parents would find him in the Xuanwu Cave is now left in the wreckage of his sect, covered in the blood of his brothers.

It is possible that one of the Yao disciples at the Wen Indoctrination Camp was either the son of Sect Leader Yao or another close blood relative. After all, the Wen demanded that all sects must send an inner heir disciple.

It does not appear as though the Yao disciple who stood first in line is one of the two survivors who flee to Lotus Pier with Sect Leader Yao. If we assume that the one standing in front is the heir to the sect, then Sect Leader Yao lost his son or nephew or other blood relative.

Is it any wonder that Sect Leader Yao is so loud-spoken? His sect has been decimated, disciples killed and lands razed. His heir might have just been killed at the hands of the Wen. He has nothing left at this point. Nothing but his voice.

Sect Leader Yao is in a precarious position. If someone wanted to use the local power vacuum to push Sect Leader Yao further away from those in power, they could. It is in Sect Leader Yao’s best interest to maintain ties to the biggest power in the land, the Jin Sect and Jin Guangshan. If he makes himself a valuable ally, makes himself indispensable, he can claw back power and return his sect to its former glory. If he can help guide immediate policy, other sects will look to him in the future and value his advice.

It’s the same situation Jiang Cheng faces during the Sunshot Campaign, post-Sunshot, and even into post-Jiang Yanli/Wei Wuxian’s deaths. Jiang Cheng must focus on rebuilding his sect. He can’t risk going against the political winds by publicly supporting Wei Wuxian and the Wen survivors. His position is too risky. He doesn’t have the manpower or resources to oppose the other three major sects. Jiang Cheng must focus on clawing back any power the Jiang Sect once had. He is alone- those who once swore to stand by him are gone. Jiang Cheng has lost his family, lost his disciples, lost Lotus Pier. How can he honor his parents and his dead sect members if he allows his sect to fall into ruin?

The two sect leaders are left in unenviable positions, trying to not just survive but to return to their former glory. They are facing the wreckage of brutal massacres alone. They are vulnerable to power plays by the other sects and cannot risk losing in the court of public opinion. They cannot be weak, they cannot lose focus. They are existing on the edge of desperation, just trying to make it to the next day. There is no one left to love them. Ambition is the only thing left.

#The Untamed #Sect Leader Yao #Jiang Cheng #I wrote this entire thing and I still hate SL Yao #but it was an interesting exercise in seeing his perspective #personal problem

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spockandawe · 4 years

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I’ve been thinking about this off and on for a while, trying to figure out if it’s a story I could write (maybe, but it would be very outside my wheelhouse, and I’ve been writing slowly lately), but I at least want to get the thoughts written out somewhere.

So there are about ten million was I can’t get over Nie Huaisang, but in particular, I can’t stop thinking about the last conversation that he has with Wei Wuxian in the show. Because the exchange isn’t overtly hostile, but it is... very cold and suspicious. And heartbreaking to me, personally, after seeing everything to do with their earlier friendship and Nie Huaisang’s relationship with his brother.

Basically, in a universe where Wei Wuxian does his carefree wandering thing sans Lan Wangji, I want him to be a regular guest at the Qinghe Nie sect. Not on any sort of schedule, just irregularly popping in to bum food and lodging from Nie Huaisang and disappearing again. And, more importantly, Wei Wuxian feeling out in some more depth just who Nie Huaisang is in comparison to who he was, and figuring out how much danger Nie Huaisang still poses to his loved ones.

(the answer: not much)

If Nie Huaisang has an active goal at that point, I think it is to be a minimal danger to the other powerful players in the game. He just exposed himself as a major hazard, sabotaged his two strongest alliances in the process, and did a lot to piss off every major sect around. He achieved what he was after, and even if he would maybe like to be an influential political figure, he knows better than to chase power right at that moment. He makes that plenty clear to Wei Wuxian in their conversation.

And, more importantly, I think he’s tired, he’s lonely, he’s sad. He misses the old positive genuine relationships he used to have. He’s spent years and years putting on an act and cozying up to a person he must have loathed. When he finally does get to drop the act, it’s not surprising that he’s much less silly and much more sedate than he was as a kid, and honestly, in that last scene, he strikes me as emotionally burned out and exhausted.

Plus, he and Wei Wuxian have a surprising amount of common ground between them. Their particular goals didn’t ever align, and I don’t think Wei Wuxian will ever be happy about how willing Nie Huaisang was to put Wei Wuxian’s loved ones in the crossfire, but... Wei Wuxian is also capable of a lot of forgiveness, and a lot of compassion.

(he’s not always able/willing to forgive, but that’s a whole other essay I’d love to write at some point)

And on a basic, basic emotional level, and almost uniquely among their generation in the main sects, Wei Wuxian and Nie Huaisang were carefree younger siblings without heavy family expectations resting on their shoulders, until tragedy slammed them in the face and left them alone and desperate. Wei Wuxian’s loss was more... dispersed than Nie Huaisang’s was, but he had people he loved attempting to support him along the way, until they were all lost too. Nie Huaisang suffered fewer losses, perhaps, but was left in a precarious position he’d never expected to hold, where his closest relationships were his brother’s killer and his brother’s killer’s best friend.

I don’t think either one of them is exactly happy with the other one’s choices. Given Nie Huaisang’s feelings about saber cultivation, I doubt he’s happy about Wei Wuxian pursuing demonic cultivation. And Wei Wuxian definitely isn’t happy that pretty much every surviving person he loves was in danger from Nie Huaisang’s maneuvering. But I also think that they both understand on a deep, personal, visceral level, ‘this is the only weapon I have left in my hands, and I am aware of the damage it will do, but I will use it to fight until my dying breath.’

No matter how much Lan Wangji loves Wei Wuxian (which he does, very deeply), that isn’t something he has the same direct understanding of. Jiang Cheng doesn’t understand it the way they do. Lan Xichen doesn’t understand it the way they do. The younger generation has been surprisingly well-protected from the trauma the earlier generation experienced (another essay I want to write), and this kind of desperation is foreign to them.

Wei Wuxian is aware that he’s much different from the child he was when he came to study at the Cloud Recesses. No matter how silly and carefree he is naturally, even now, it’s been tempered by the damage he’s taken since then. And he is a very protective person, who’s very capable of holding a long, long grudge. But he’s a very compassionate person too, and smart enough to recognize the ways Nie Huaisang’s choices echo his own, even if they aren’t the choices he would have made. And if he can reassure himself that Nie Huaisang doesn’t pose a further danger, which I think is well within his capabilities, I think that rebuilding that friendship would be an extremely positive and constructive relationship for both of them to have, and I want it.

#the untamed #wei wuxian #nie huaisang #wen ning is the other major protected little sibling in play #and he didn't survive his losses long enough to adjust the way nhs and wwx did #and his older sister outlived him #until she didn't #but he wasn't in a position to... do much with that at the time #meta #?#long post/

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