#in which the batfam don't realize the new kid is really powerful

[batty-pham]

Danny didn't hate being little again, he didn't exactly enjoy that part of his predicament, but he didn't hate it.

However, he loved his new family. His dad that actually pays attention to him. Siblings that care for him but also tease him.

He enjoys going to school and not having to worry about ghost attacks. He is thrilled that he doesn't feel the weight of the crown of the dead upon his head when he walks the halls of Wayne Manor.

That's why he feels fury ice his veins when an icy breath leaves his mouth, his tiny hand clutched in Dicks much larger one, ice cream in his other hand, that he promptly dropped to the ground.

"baby bird is something -"

Danny didn't have time to answer as a ghost came into view.

Skulker, he was going on about what he always did, demanding to know where Danny was, but Danny couldn't hear him.

His family was suddenly on edge, Dick quickly picked him up, Tim was quickly trying to find the quickest escape route so that they could change out of their civies, Jason has his hand on his gun that everyone pretended to not know was there even though it was concealed.

"why can't they just leave me alone." Danny mumbled.

"It is alright Danny we will get you to safety-" Damian started to assure him.

His family all exclaimed in surprise as they watched Danny's hair start to raise, he rose from Dick's arms, his eyes glowing green. Dick, panicking, reached for his little brother only for his arms to fade through him.

The shadows seemed to grow darker around Danny as he rose towards the attacking ghost, his skin glowing green, his ears becoming more pointed, he almost seemed to grow claws.

His family called for him, but the calls fell upon deaf ears.

Skulker looked towards Danny with a smirk, "there you are you- why are you so small-"

"LEAVE ME ALONE!" Danny screeched, glass shattering in the windows nearby as the ghost was blown backwards.

His family watched from below, covering their ears, their eyes wide.

#in which the batfam don't realize the new kid is really powerful #my favorite #dp x dc #dpxdc #batfamily #batkids #dc x dp #dp x dc crossover #batpham #danny phantom #ghost king danny

[autisticcassandracain]

The streamlining of Cass has other issues: I DON'T WANT her to get along with Jason BECAUSE of his history with killing. I mean, Dick shows remorse, but Jason? (And I can hear the clickety-clacking about how Jason is an antihero already.) Maybe he does now, he saw a kid who was basically him in a former life, and now he's been rethinking things. But before that? lolnope

I agree with you she shouldn't get along with Jason while he's killing people, I've talked about that before and other Cass fans have as well, but that said, I honestly haven't followed Jason's character post-flashpoint enough to really have much of an opinion on how Cass and Jason's relationship was handled in canon. From my understanding post-flashpoint Jason rarely actually seems to kill people, and has recently had a storyline in which he decided to swear it off. If my impression of that is correct, then in that continuity, honestly, I don't necessarily mind Cass and Jason having a decent relationship in that continuity. Cass has repeatedly shown to get along with people who have sworn off killing, and has, on occassion, been cordial with people who do kill (there's that guy with the wind powers whose name I keep forgetting who was fighting against a government who was massacring his ethnic group, for example, who was Cass's love interest for a short while).

I think what makes preboot Cass and Jason uniquely unlikely to get along with each other is not just the fact that he kills, but also that his reasons for it suck really bad. Jason had the bat ideology and a place in the batfam, but swore it off because he thinks killing is the only way to control Gotham's crime. This is fundamentally counter to everything Cass believes, including her belief in redemption. Like, obviously, I don't think Cass can ever have an uncomplicated relationship with people who kill, but she's been willing to reach out and have relationships with them that aren't just 'drop kicks them off a building'. Jason in particular though would be VERY difficult for her to swallow because he's a corruption of the bat symbol she holds so dear. But in the new continuity, where Jason has currently sworn off killing and killed much less liberally before that? I don't think that version is one Cass can't have a decent relationship with.

That said, I don't disagree that it's a symptom of 'streamlining' Cass, but tbh, it's also a symptom of streamlining Jason, as well as the batfam as a whole. DC has been going hard on the idea of the batfam as a literal family post-flashpoint, likely because they've realized there's a very large audience for it. But like, the batfam just. Doesn't work as a big happy family. 90% of the people in it have baggage with each other and 99% have massive mental health issues that get in the way of healthy relationships. In order to arrive at a 'we have a collective movie night in Wayne Manor' set-up, you need to defang and streamline like, all of them. It's actually really funny to me that DC was handed a perfect opportunity with a complete universe reboot to remove a bunch of baggage and bad blood, but decided to recreate a lot of those events instead. And adding new ones. And keeping loaded character dynamics born from bad blood similar, even without the events that would've lead to that bad blood. But then STILL pretend that these bitches go to a fast food restaurant together lmao.

The result is that a vast majority of the batfam feels like they have much less depth than they did preboot, because the priority is no longer creating strong individual characters, but to create familial/friendly relationships. It's why, though Cass and Steph have had more screentime together post-flashpoint than they did preboot, their relationship feels like a much more shallow gal pal friendship. The difficulties their relationship had (born from them being seperate individual characters with different histories and reactions to it that sometimes clashed) have been entirely erased for a 'let's hug and support each other' relationship.

Like I'm not one of those people that's like 'let characters be dysfunctional together it's so much more interesting than boring bland healthy relationships' or whatever, like to each their own and all that but I've got too many dysfunctional (family) relationships irl for me to have much patience with them in fiction. But you can't just write people as deeply dysfunctional for years and then pretend it didn't happen while not fundamentally changing much character history. Like if you want good dad Bruce PLEASE do that but for the love of god you can't still give all his children massive perfectionist complexes and have him routinely tear them down emotionally and even physically and then pretend that a movie night wouldn't be fraught with tension. All that accomplishes is a flattening of everyone's characters by disregarding logical human emotions.

And if you DO change character history to facilitate better relationships you need to actually replace it with something substantial, otherwise you end up with Wayne Family Adventures or, you know, fanfic.

Anyway TL;DR Cass having a decent relationship with Jason in the post-flashpoint continuity is a symptom of the entire batfam being streamlined to force them into a happy family they have literally never been before and should not be within the canon DC has presented us with.

Also as a last fyi, I don't think it's fair to class Dick as a murderer, since he's killed one (1) person, it was the Joker, in a fit of rage after being lead to believe he'd killed another one of his little brothers, was immediately wracked with guilt once coming to his senses, and also the Joker was resurrected via CPR immediately after. Like man I just don't think that counts, and I very highly doubt Cass would be anything but sympathetic about the situation, especially since it's not like Dick thinks killing is okay, and although he's not AS rigid about it as Bruce or Cass, he very much does believe in and abide by the no killing rule, so like. I really don't see why Cass would have issues with him on that front.

#Long post #Cassandra cain #Asks #My posts #Infodumping

[charleswaterloo]

Oh no i used this up with Ravkinnies ranting sessions... uhhhh idk oh wait nope, got one left in my brain

I wished Bruce would have stayed dead and new52 had never happened. I would have liked to have kept Dick and Damian as batman and robin and continue for a while, and watched the batfam slowly grow stronger, working together as seen in Gates of Gotham. I think Tim's Red Robin run could have been more transformative if Bruce had stayed dead, it would have been more interesting narratively. Dick was on his way to having a we need to get the family back together because i can't do everything on my own arc with Black Mirror (and partially in gates of gotham - though it was short so we didn't see the build up to the story).

I would liked to have seen Jason slowly getting the help and therapy he needed in the refurbished Arkham (Dick been pouring money into fixing it in his run) and Dick visiting and talking things out with him over time, and Jason finally being able to walk out the front doors with a clean bill of mental health. I don't think he would like live with the batfam or anything but like from their eventually maybe he could like back them up on cases. Also him just being like a civilian would be fine. Like occasionally Dick chats with him and gets/gives advice (they were really the only one who had an established relationship at the time, but i wouldn't mind if they eventually incorporated the others). Another route is Jason going the Alfred route and (i mean no way would dress as a butler) but like i would very much like to see Jason in a support type of roll rather than being a vigilante, because he's had so much violence in his life already DC let him heal.

Speaking of characters i would like to see heal, I would have liked to see Cass learn to enjoy the little things in life, learn that she deserved love and a family after she spent time in Hong Kong. I would like to see her eventually let herself enjoy life more - and realize there's more to life than vigilantism. Like ley her take dance classes, let Dick take her up on the trapeze and teach his sister the art of flying. And just god please let her have all the chocolate ice cream in the world. Eventually I like to imagine that she never even has to wear the bulky bat armor to become Batman, people just assume that's who she is (the whole idea of the urban legend restored - would a goon call the person who beat them up Batgirl or Batman argument i personally love). Dick transitions back to Nightwing (which is better for his mental health tbh) and Damian either staying as Robin, or transitions to Flamebird.

Idk i think Dick could manage the batfamily better than Bruce, and I know it's a lot to ask from him, especially because he has his own friends/family with the Titans, but the idea of Dick, Damian, Tim, Cass, Steph, and Babs (who stays as Oracle and disabled) being a little family unit of superheros (with Jason helping out Alfred) is so dear to my heart, despite the fact we haven't seen it and it's all in my head. And letting the characters grow and develop too would have been so great. Let the Titans become the new members of the JLA (or just disband the JLA and keep em as Titans), and have Tim/Cass/Steph's generation start figuring themselves out.

I think Dick would have been a really interesting mentor for Duke to have, and we could have had triple D energy going if Damian tagged along.

I think the Court of Owls arc would have been more interesting with Dick leading the family, especially because he was a former target, so it could be the perfect time for them all to (trauma) bond together if Dick got thrown in the Labyrinth, because he's the one member of the Batfamily that everyone is on like neutral-good terms with (i say Steph is prolly neutral but she cares about Tim and Damian who care about Dick). Dick understands the Joker better, and isn't as fun for Joker to mess with, so there's the possibility of Joker just giving up. I wouldn't have to read about Bruce hitting his kids anymore. Because Dick would never ever do that to his siblings, i wouldn't have to worry about seeing child/domestic abuse.

Idk sorry Bruce stans, he's had good moments and runs but I'm just... tired of DC handling him poorly in comics for like such a long time and would prefer if he just wasn't even around anymore. I liked Dick as Batman better (and the rest of Gotham did too).

firstly this is so detailed and nuanced thank you so much for writing this you're such a legend i am in awe rn lol

and SECONDLY

THIS IS SUCH A COOL IDEA WOAH WOAH. like i would miss bruce (the CORRECT bruce lol) but i just love all the stuff you mentioned - it would be nice if the batfam were closer. i think that conflict makes things interesting but there's simply so much of that in dc comics that i feel like we never really get to see some interesting dynamics between characters and this would allow for that. i mean jason and steph? they'd be SO powerful lol

i think the stuff you mentioned for jason and cass is really cool too - i like the softer stuff <3

#thank you so much for writing this and sorry i didn't respond to all the things you said but just know that i read them #AND I THOUGHT THEY WERE COOL <3 #YOU'RE SO AMAZING #dc #ask #charleswaterloo dc shit

[risingmoonyue]

Batman/P5 Crossover

-Sometime before Akechi but after Futaba or Haru

-Damian is sent to Tokyo to check it out for whatever reason (maybe they had a fight, or he’s going stir crazy, or he’s just the only one they can send at the time and didn't bother with all that "you're not old enough" business)

-Dami is younger than Futaba by a year or three or four

-He is baby

-He is transferred to Shujin as a child prodigy where he also immediately joins the "outcast" community because of his attitude and intelligence

-Talia goes too, manages to cut off all his communications with the Batfam, and is planning to take him home in a month whether he likes it or not

-For whatever reason, Batfam doesn't realize this??? (Like, either she's faking reports or they're too busy (think fight or chaos in Gotham scenario maybe???))

-Anyways, obviously Dami doesn't want this

-Somehow the Phantom Thieves hear about the situation

-Maybe he was assigned to shadow Makoto for a while, and they managed to overhear a phone conversation either to Talia or Dami trying to get in touch with the Batfam and nothing really working

-And eventually they outright see him fighting with his mother with him at some point (either in person or over a phone call) mentioning that she already disowned him, he's happy with his Father's family, and that he will head her family business over his dead body—and oh would you look at that, you already managed that, care to try again Mother?

-The PT's are understandably alarmed

-And learn her name from Damian (from Makoto maybe or someone else he bonded a little with) (MORGANA) (THEY GAVE HIM MONA FOR A DAY AND NOW THEY KNOW EVERYTHING FROM HIS MANY PETS TO HIS LEAST TO MOST FAVORITE SIBLINGS STARTING FROM TIM TO DICK TO HIS FAVORITE FOODS TO EVERYONE IN HIS FAMILY’S NAMES TO HOW STUPID HE FINDS EVERYONE AND WHY THEY'RE STUPID TO HIS FAVORITE MUSIC TO WHY ANIMALS ARE SUPERIOR TO HUMANS AND MONA’S LIKE OMG TMI BUT LOVED IT THERE BECAUSE HE WAS PAMPERED LIKE NO TOMORROW GOT ONLY THE BEST FOOD AND THE BEST BEDS AND TOYS THAT HE GOT TO TAKE WITH HIM BACK TO LEBLANC AND NOW AKIRA AND SOJIRO ARE LIKE DUDE WHY AND MONA’S LIKE IM KEEPING HIM THIS HUMAN IS GOOD SORRY AKIRA YOU’RE DEMOTED)

-The palace is basically a fortress full of assasin ninjas and clones

-Dunno what her keywords are tho

-Or her what her palace actually is

-Help?????????

-Cognitive Bruce, Ra's, Damian, Dami clones, and Jason (maybe rest of batfam??? Idk)

-Long story short, the traps are so assassin-y that they need someone who knows the actual Talia because egads, this is the closest they have all come to actually dying

-And they didn't really want to do it and were just gonna power through

-But Dami manages to find out and get in and of course uses his background to help out whether they like it or not

(-he's slightly off put by Joker's name, but then decides to just solely call Gotham!Joker "The Clown")

-At some point they are captured by the Shadow Talia who is decked out in super fancy traditional Arab clothing and probably every conceivable hidden weapon known to man

-Talia says Damian won't and can't ever change from who he "is meant to be", referring to him as her Alexander and basically brutally addresses all of his insecurities concerning the batfam and people and society in general

-And all this is kinda killing him cause he still loves Talia despite the fact that she killed him and had a violent citywide custody battle with Batman but he also loves the batfam too even if he would absolutely never admit it (except to maybe Grayson)

-Joker does his emotional kick-start thing and/or Dami is like Makoto and just gets so mad he triggers it himself, but either way, lo and behold, Damian is now a persona user, usurping Futaba's place as the baby of the team

-The outfit is kinda inspired by his future adult league outfit with the top and bottom and gold jewelry, but has a raggedy cloak with dull gold edges, a Robin mask and gauntlets, and his main weapons are batarang-sword hybrids

---acknowledging his past and moving on with his present

-Persona: Aladdin, Tsun Zu, Ali Baba, somone else???? Need ideas plz help

-Probably the fastest member of the group

-His small body makes his hits not as strong, but hoo boy can that kid move around

-Hits a lot and dodges most

-Most of his Persona abilities are physical and have high crit and/or are status affects

-Downside is he has not a lot of SP (compared to the rest of the group)

-And he has pretty good HP

-Those good ol' “superior genetics” have to be good for something after all

-Anyways they escape to find the treasure another day

-And Dami is all smug because HA you definitely can't stop me now

-And the PTs are just resigned to keeping an eye on the extremely competent snotty assassin/vigilante child

-They do like him though so it's not too bad (comes with learning all his darkest secrets via his mother and thought processes that tends to accompany watching someone at their lowest get a persona)

(-They do manage to temper him a bit and help him adjust better to actual society too that's nice)

-As such, they also know about Batman and Robin and his whoooole family. Both sides.

-Damian decided not to tell batfam because he does agree with the whole "most adults suck" mentality that the Phantom Thieves have; despite his deep, deep respect for his father and mother and Grayson, they all do kinda suck

-And he’s rather not get pulled out as he surely would if he told them

(-On a side note, he likes Sojiro

-The man gives him coffee, curry, and leaves him mostly to his own devices

-Instant win)

-He is dubbed "Mockingbird" apon return to the metaverse because of his freaky talented vocal skills in mimicking anyone and everyone's voice

-Eventually, they beat Talia

-She doesn't publicly confess to all her sins unlike everyone else

-PTs don't realize it worked until Damian came into school with a genuine smile on his face, and more relaxed than he'd been since he got there

-PTs are confused until Damian's like, this works out because hey, don't want to have several people assassinated and draw the entire freaking league to Tokyo

(-Which was probably why Talia didn't)

-They agree

-But she does break down to tears in Dami's arms and promise to ACTUALLY TALK CIVILLY with Bruce to try and make up for everything and try to fix up the league

-He stays for the rest of p5

-But steers all his reports very much away from the Phantom Thieves

-If anything, he downplays absolutely everything, and makes it seem like it's nothing super big but he's gonna stay a while to keep and eye out because y'alls are busy and I like it here and I haven't gotten expelled so there

-The PTs like to add funny stuff on there just to see if they’ll notice

-Like, Akira likes to have Dami describe his day in excruciating detail. Like, recounting the entirety of his nine or so months to Sae during police interrogation, excruciating

-Mona is pushing for the shiny stuff

-Yusuke just likes to put in bursts of randomness (Dami once mentioned that an acquaintance made another acquaintance T-pose in a church for art lol)

-Ann loves to rant about food

-Haru is always insisting on about feelings

-Ryuji likes to complain about everything and puts in ridiculous requests

-Futaba is just putting in every gen-z thing ever

-Makoto is actually responsible and tries to get him to talk about his progress in school and his social life

-And Akechi is absolutely nowhere near any of this and doesn’t know it exists

-When they have the Tokyo/Japan-wide calling card, Batfam sees it too because let's face it, that's totally the sorta thing that they would keep an eye out for even if he didn't look at the news in the entirety of the time Dami was in Tokyo

-And they send a message to Damian (the first actual communication they've had since before Talia) saying "WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON OVER THERE????"

-And with the entirety of the Phantom Thieves looking over his shoulder, Damian's just like "Chill dudes, everything's fiiiiiiiiiine"

-And they're like "UH WHAT PART OF THIS IS FINE????" because they've dug around a bit and found every news report, and oh hey, this isn't anywhere near as calm as Damian described and he’s being super OOC and what’s going on?!?!?!?!?!

-And Damian, being egged on by the most of the PTs, just sends a winky face

-Just

-😉

-And he's smug, because it's still chaos over there so they can't actually come get him and try to pull him out because he's being super ooc

-Which means he's free to do what he wants/needs in the meantime

-Cue the end of the game

-And Dami is going with them on their summer road trip and cackling because the batfam is scrambling to find him in Tokyo but lol nope he's in a van the Japanese government tried and fail to follow

-And he found all the trackers like, a year ago

-Every

-Single

-One

-They eventually track him down to Akira's house where they're calmly eating dinner (and they've been expecting this for the past week so Mona was keeping watch just so they could pull this off) and talking about how uneventful the school year was

-Cue mass confusion in the batfam

-As the PTs enjoy just confusing them so much

-By talking to Mona

-Talking normal then crazy then normal again

-And just generally being their normal selves lol

-They explain absolutely nothing beyond gushing about how much progress socially and academically he’s made (gotta embarrass the baby of the group somehow) and making sure that if Dami absolutely has to go home that he's able to stay in touch

(-Later, Damian forms his own hero persona outside of Batman and Robin)

(-He names it Mockingbird)

(-Batfam proceeds to have a brain aneurysm while the PTs dab their happy proud tears out of their eyes on their regularly scheduled tea time at the Wayne Manor)

(-Damian sends a private plane every week or two lol)

(Bonus: ARTTTTTTT)

(Psst if you guys have ideas for art, outfits, interactions or scenarios, let me know)

#my writing #my art #batman #persona 5 #p5 #persona #batman x p5 #damian wayne #akira kurusu #ren amamiya #p5 protagonist #ive been holding onto this one for a wHILE