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chirpsythismorning · 1 year

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Will Won't Believe Mike Has Feelings For Him, Until Mike Unpacks EVERYTHING!

In season 2, almost every touch between byler was initiated by Mike. Literally two episodes in a row at the start of that season, the camera focuses on Mike wrapping his arm around Will's shoulder warmly, only for us to never see this gesture from Mike again until s4, except this time it's with El (feat. Will in the background).

This is important because it means Mike went from initiating touch with Will in the earlier seasons, to not initiating it in the later ones, and conveniently right after he started having a relationship with El.

After holding back from initiating any contact with Will all of s3 (the same season almost all contact between them was initiated by Will for the first time), it's not until the end of the season that Mike lets go of his ih right as Will is about to leave for California, falling into his arms.

And then it takes the literal apocalypse, at the very end of s4, for Mike to wholeheartedly initiate contact with Will again (after yet another season of Will initiating most).

And so it makes sense why Will would be confused.

Because at the end of s3, Mike gives him the impression that he didn't want Will to join another party, with Will basically admitting that was the whole point of him donating the dnd game, because joining another party would literally be impossible for him, so like what's the point?

Will's feelings aren't going away. Whether or not Mike feels the same, is beside the point. Will still wants to be in Mike's life as his friend and he would be ecstatic to be best friends like they used to, entirely platonically.

After all, Will used to attribute Mike's behavior in earlier seasons as platonic, whereas bylers arguably viewed it as romantic. So Will's idea of romantic vs. platonic may very well be different than Mike's (and perhaps ours).

We tend to view those gestures as romantic, especially because Mike went from being able to do them nonchalantly, to now looking like a deer in headlights any time Will so much as slightly grazes his arm.

This is why I think Mike and Will's personal experiences with ih intersect and overlap. It affects them both differently, and that's probably because they had their realizations at different times, but it’s also probably because it started in environments that don’t resemble the exact same circumstances and experiences.

I do think because of Lonnie and because of Will's experiences growing up being bullied, he is understandably scared of being a target and that will never go away, it never does for queer people. That trauma is deep for Will and it's why he can't stand up for El in s4 when it comes to the bullies. It's why he freezes. And yet, even still, he seems a lot more comfortable in being who he is in a way that I just don't think Mike is, at least not fully or to the extent Will is (yet).

And it's because they are at totally different stages of their journey, journeys that are going to look totally different even side by side, but still qualify as both being worthy enough for acknowledgment in the end.

I hate the whole excuse regarding the girl in Will's class, because we don't really get much context there. But I'm guessing that Will obviously knew this girl sort of well. They're sitting next to each other in class, and he's been going to this school for about 6 months, so I highly doubt they are strangers.

I also am assuming they talked enough that this girl felt compelled to flirt by playing footsy, as opposed to her just being attracted to him and doing it on a whim. That obviously doesn't excuse her touching him without his consent, but what I'm trying to say is that there are girls that have liked Will for who he is, after getting to know him, who want to get to know him more romantically and he's just.... not having it.

And so if Will was craving normalcy to the point where he wanted to appear straight, dating a girl that is fully interested in him is obviously one of the popular options a person might consider in that situation. And Will's had this opportunity. This was just one of at least 3 in canon occurrences where a girl implied, 'Hey. I'm interested' towards Will. Which means all he would have to do is play along and he could keep his sexuality locked down and ignore his true feelings, by pretending to be happy in a heterosexual relationship.

We even have an unnamed fourth girl in the mix, who Will doesn't even know exists. This girl exists solely to make Mike insecure about his and Will's relationship. Because in contrast to Will, and most people that don't have extreme cases of ih, Mike views romantic relationships as shutting out everyone else, and he's scared that now that Will might be interested in a girl and moving towards a romantic relationship, he's going to shut Mike out and he'll lose him for good.

But Will doesn't have that same level of denial or self-hatred that might lead one to pursue or even simply draw out an unromantic relationship, at least not anymore. You could try to argue that in s2 Will did because he gave in and danced with the girl (at Mike's insistence), but since then, nothing.

Will is the kind of person that is comfortable enough in his sexuality to literally be single for the rest of his life, contentedly, because that would mean he doesn't have to pretend to be someone he's not to fit society's expectations. He's not scared enough about the implications of not having a gf and what people would think of him as a result. He is who he is and he's accepted that part of himself.

Mike on the other hand, has lots of expectations of himself, that he's sort of forcing himself to obey and follow. And he's also well aware of the implications of everything he does, especially when it relates to Will. He hyper-focuses on his actions and it's why he can't be fully honest about how he feels, and this is because how he has been acting as of late, is mostly an act in and of itself. An act that protects him from exploring the truth about his sexuality. An act that allows him to ignore it all together.

Every time Will has confronted Mike about his inability to be a good friend like he used to be, it's literally coming from a platonic place, not from a place of Will expecting Mike to return his love.

That's the thing, he doesn't think Mike could ever love him because he thinks Mike is straight. But he also (unlike Mike) doesn't have fears about Mike viewing his behavior as romantic, he just has fears that Mike doesn't want him as a friend anymore.

And I think that's the difference between Will's ih and Mike's.

Because Mike's ih is attributed to how he's been taught to believe he must grow up and be a certain way, according to bs media propaganda and from his family, along with how all of those ideas impacted him internally, since he has no one to really talk about it with.

And while Will has experienced some heinous shit in regards to his perceived sexuality at an extremely young age (a lot of which Mike witnessed right beside him or experienced himself firsthand) he doesn't apply those insecurities to his relationship with Mike. Even though Lonnie and those bullies and the scum of town broke him down, his mother loves him and his brother loves him and his best friend said asking him to be his best friend was the best thing he's ever done.

Mike doesn't have that kind of support going on for him when it comes to accepting his sexuality. He's scared, and understandably so.

This contrast between their characters is obvious in the way they go about their relationship, specifically in s4.

For example, Will doesn't view Mike not sending him letters as Mike turning him down romantically, he views it as Mike not caring about him at all, even as a friend.

And that's the main thing that made me have this realization about Mike's behavior in s4, and over the seasons in general because, to Mike, writing a letter to Will had romantic implications.

He sent letters to El and literally couldn't give in to send not even one letter to Will, and it's because, well, it would be too obvious (gay).

I imagine it's possible Will called Mike after they were settled in Cali, because he was still fairly certain they were on good terms considering how they left things (he has no idea Mike is spiraling over being recommitted to El again). Will had little reason to be insecure that Mike wouldn't want to talk to him, so I imagine that initially, things were at least fine.

But then it's been about a week and the Byers get a couple of letters in the mail, one for El and one for Jonathan, and... I can't even imagine what Will might have been feeling in that moment.

And then it happens again. And again. And Will is confused, because he thought they resolved things in their last conversation. He thought that they hugged and they were back to the way things used to be.

We even get this moment where Max is writing letters to everyone, EVERYONE, which makes me think Will did get letters from his other friends after the move, from Dustin, Lucas and even Max. And I think this can also be supported by a few other details. Bc if the phone line was busy, I don’t think any of the other friends would have a problem with writing Will a letter to reach him instead. And so by Dustin complaining about Mike was always whining about the Byers line being busy is an interesting choice bc, why wouldn't Dustin also complain? Wouldn't he want to call to talk to Will too.... Unless, Dustin is fully capable of getting his platonic Will fix via letters, EVEN probably ending them with love Dustin. (Will also knew what Lucas’ hair looked like in s4, which he would only really know if he got a picture of Lucas sent to him in the mail, most likely accompanied by a letter catching up).

I'm honestly guessing, that the only person who didn't write Will, not even once, was Mike.

It makes sense that in the time between s3-s4, Will attributed this behavior from Mike as him just reverting back to his s3 ways. He stopped focusing on Will and put all of his energy into worrying about El (again).

And so although Will doesn't make the effort to reach out to Mike as much as he could have, it's not because he's scared Mike will realize his feelings for him if he 'goes too far' or something. It's because he just genuinely thinks that Mike doesn't want to be his friend anymore.

And then the couple other times Mike himself calls the Byers over those 6 months, it's incredibly awkward. Something is off and Will doesn't know what it is or if it's his fault.

And this is why he puts his heart and soul into that painting.

The party was the last thing they talked about when they last saw each other. And that painting and what it represents reminds Will of a time when they were younger, when they could be themselves. Or more specifically when Mike could be himself and show how much he cared about Will, something he has been incapable of doing to the extent he would like to, for quite some time now. Will's holding onto this small ounce of hope that he just needs to prove to Mike that their friendship can still be what it used to be, if that's what Mike wants of course. And he's not scared that Mike is going to see this as romantic, or he's at least not worried about it. Why else would he put a heart on his shield and plan on giving it to him in front of everyone, in public?

Over the next few months, letters to El (from Mike), are arriving less and less over time, but they're still semi consistent. And all the while Will's just working on his painting with the purest and kindest of intentions.

Then, the day of their reunion finally comes and Will is so excited to hug Mike and give him the painting, but then suddenly, Mike is rejecting him. Instead of going in for a hug like he did at the end of s3, Mike makes his way towards Will, only to pull himself back and tap him on the shoulder instead before they can even hug properly.

Will looked very happy to see Mike, just like Mike did initially. However, in contrast, Will didn't hold himself back from the embrace at all, not until he saw Mike doing it.

Meaning ih wasn't in the way of Will in this moment, but it was in the way for Mike.

Mike's inability to simply hug him back like a friend hugs a friend, is when Will thinks, 'okay. so this painting is probably not the best idea.'

And then all day long, Will is moping, not even thinking about the implications of what it could look like. He doesn't care if he looks like a sad gay boy, because he is a sad gay boy.

Meanwhile Mike is smiling (painfully) most of the day, though we know because Mike lets it slip later, that he was too distracted by Will's moping to even enjoy himself. It was all an act. He was internalizing everything he was truly feeling and thinking in those moments.

Again we're seeing Will being quite capable of showing a full range of emotions, without him worrying about the implications that may come with it, whereas the implications of anything and everything Mike does (or even wears) is a guiding factor for why he is behaving the way that he is.

And then at Rink-O-Mania, Will says, 'what about us' and the entire byler community is gasping.. bc i mean, the guts?? the confidence? the self assurance that he must have had to say something so bold such as, 'what about us??', all while Mike is looking back at him fucking starstruck, wishing he had the balls to say something like that intentionally and not by accident.

Mike has started to be extremely careful about what he says, and in turn Will is having no choice but to do the same.

At this moment, Mike is still reeling from admitting to paying more attention to Will's mood than El who was lying straight to his face, and now Will is suddenly revealing to Mike that he missed him a lot and he was sad that Mike didn't call more...

But instead of Mike being like BRO I called. I called you every day for almost a year... he keeps his mouth shut.

This is the moment we finally see Mike's mask start to crack, because in this moment he reveals that he couldn't write to him because, "She's my girlfriend Will!" and "We're friends. We're friends.".

All of which are things Will never disputed as being basic facts.

The reality is Will isn't upset here because Mike doesn't want to do romantic coded things with him, he's upset because things that used to be platonic for them, that are platonic for most best friends, Mike is suddenly viewing as romantic now.

"But we used to be best friends," drives home this fact that Will's insecurities about their relationship are tied to Mike's behavior.

And then Mike's ih and 'detouring back into the closet' tendencies are back in full force, and it's causing Will to also cut himself short. Instead of being honest like he always is, he's stopping himself, because Mike is starting to change his tune.

It's why he walked away after the rain fight, and it's why he keeps his mouth shut instead of defending himself. Because this isn't how things used to be between them.

And that's what I find kind of tragic about their slow-burn, and I haven't seen anyone talk about this, which is that I think their experiences overlap.

I think that Mike's ih is starting to impact Will in a negative way. While Will has been learning to accept himself over the seasons, Mike's been learning to hide.

We've seen them go from a relationship early on where Mike was the reason Will accepted himself, to now being the reason he has to give him a veiled love confession, because at this point, Will has little reason to believe Mike could love him back based on his actions and his behavior.

At the end of s3, right before they hug, Will kind of just stands there waiting for Mike to hug him, like he's down to hug Mike, but only if that's what he wants. Will's ih is only starting to kick in at all now because Mike's has went from nonexistent, to value infinity. After a season of initiating all contact, Will is skeptical Mike even wants to hug him. But then Mike is falling into his arms and it's such a pure moment, because now Will is thinking, albeit bittersweetly, that things can go back to normal for them.

But they don't, with s4 essentially starting out as a repeat of s3.

Will is back to this trend of initiating all their physical contact again. First going in for a hug at the airport brightly (only to be shot down). Poking Mike in the chest at Rink-O-Mania when they're arguing. Grazing Mike's arm in the van when he gives him the painting. Reaching out to tap his shoulder during his monologue. Hugging Lucas with him. Elbowing him subtly to ask about how things are with El. These are all subtle moments where Will goes out his way to initiate touch with Mike, things that arguably Mike used to do with Will, but now only does extremely rarely, and most notably at the last second at the end of the season, after holding himself back the first 8 or so episodes.

I think what's so important about the way they approached this, is that in order for Will to truly accept and love himself, Mike has to accept himself too.

Without even realizing it, a long time ago, Mike made Will accept himself. Will was arguably experiencing a lot of ih in the first two seasons, but then suddenly it flipped, and now it's the other way around, with Will just being confused like I thought you cured me of this bro? wtf??

Will literally poured his heart out to Mike with that painting. He told Mike how he felt. He even spent the last year or so being fairly honest about how he viewed their friendship and about how he feels about him. And while Mike always makes the effort to correct things with Will, a lot faster than he does with anyone else, he's still leaving Will in the dark here.

Because while most bylers are fully convinced s4 ended things in a way that proves Mike is ready to be with Will once that opportunity arises, that doesn't mean Will is going to believe him.

Will doesn't end the season thinking Mike loves him, he ends it thinking the exact opposite.

It doesn't matter that Mike is finally reaching out to him again or that he's even standing right beside him at the end, because Will has already been through this with Mike.

He's already gotten hope that they could go back to how they were.

And even though their reconciliation in s4 seemed to resolve things, things still ended in a similar way to s3, only this time in a more grand way, with Mike telling El he loved her 9 times, and the added bonus that he apparently felt like his life started that day they found her in the woods (the same day Will went missing).

And so somethings gotta give. We cant just have a repeat of s3 and s4.

I think it's going to take A LOT for Will to even consider Mike could not only see him truly as a best friend again, but that he also returns his feelings romantically.

Sadly, despite all the beauty that is byler when it comes to them voicing how much they care about each other, Mike's inability to even want a platonic relationship is why they are in this situation in the first place. Because I honestly think Will is capable of a platonic relationship with Mike, whereas I do no think Mike is capable of having a platonic relationship with Will. And his attempts to hide his feelings have caused Will to be insecure about where their friendship lies.

And so it's going to require Will getting an explanation as to why Mike has been acting this way for so long.

Mike's not going to be able to end things with El and then manage to convince Will that its him who he loves.

This is where I think the letter comes in. I think that Will pouring his heart out in that painting, explaining all the ways Mike makes him feel like he's not a mistake, needs to be reciprocated in a similar way from Mike's end.

After the past few years of him making Will question everything he ever thought about their relationship, both Will and Mike deserve the closure that comes with acknowledging what the hell happened between them.

And I think the best way to do that is for Will to understand why Mike did what he did, because Will didn't personally have ih that gave him the urge to seek out, nor stay in unhappy relationships. Like I'm sure Will's fairly convinced that having a girlfriend is strictly straight behavior, as are most (uninformed) people.

If Mike wants to be with Will, he needs to give Will closure about why they went from best friends to strangers. And that is going to require Mike unpacking his ih in a way that Will is going to understand, once Mike finally acknowledges it instead of beating around the bush. Will is going to be able to be the thing that makes Mike accept himself, and vice versa.

And the way I think Mike is going to do that is IN A LETER (especially after convincing himself letters are romantic? boy! you better prove it!)

Once they finally do that, once they both speak to each other in their own personal love language (Will with his art and Mike with his writing), they'll finally understand each other and where they were both coming from.

And that's when they'll realize that they can overcome all these fears they've had growing up, everything that caused them this big mess in the first place, because they'll be able to get through it together.

And it's going to be so heartbreakingly beautiful and real that not even the ga is going to be able to be mad.

#stranger things #byler #byler analysis #byler theory #stranger things theory #stranger things theories #will byers #mike wheeler #scratch that I think toxic milkvans that are apart of the ga will be mad no matter what when byler is endgame #but i'm not including non-toxic/non-active/casual milkvans who have only seen the show like once through #bc like...#the show is supposed to be tricking the majority of the audience until the end #and so I cant really blame them for not being as obsessive and observational as me #if mike can't confront his sexuality head on #then will can't either #they are one in the same #once mike finally accepts himself and his sexuality #will is going to be back on that journey to accepting himself as well #crazy together right?#it's been on pause for a while because mike's own ih has been in the way a bit #but i truly think that until mike finally unpacks what the hell happened #byler aint going anywhere #bc will just isn't going to believe him #I also think that will constantly being framed behind/in the background behind mike #is a way they can cinematically let us know that mike has been internalizing his feelings for will this whole time #all of those shots of will standing in between mike and el #all of those shots of boys that resemble will near mike whenever will isn't around?#the will the wise drawing in els room where mike is facing?#as much as it is hinting at wills feelings for mike #it's even more so being used to hint at mikes hidden feelings for will

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dontcallmeeds · 2 years

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I saw a twitter thread that was giving reasons for Nancy Wheeler being a lesbian and I gotta say, I agree. At least that Nancy is NOT straight. The way she interacts with Barb….dude, do you know how many of the stairs conversations (from season one before Barb disappears) I’ve had with friends who were secretly seeing me??? The whole “this isn’t you” after Nancy lies about where she’s going and the way she reacts with her facial expressions…..bro, they’ve kissed before. This has been said a million times here and otherwise since season one.

But with the level of grief and guilt she goes through in season two, I’m seeing that right now in myself as someone who just had one of their best friends pass away suddenly who was also an ex. The whole “bullshit” Stancy Halloween fight could be chalked up to grief and liking Jonathan sure, but I think it’s way more than that. I think she’s calling everything bullshit including herself because she lost the one person who saw her, someone she loved more than just platonically.

Then season three is mostly just her fighting with Jonathan if you really think about it, because she wants to be more than just a sandwich girl at Hawkins Post. Someone Barb would be proud of. We only see her really happy with Jonathan in season three when they wake up late and she sneaks out and the soft moment they have at the end when he’s leaving. Other than that they’re either fighting with each other or fighting monsters. Robin calls her a “priss,” but before Steve she was just kind of a…nerd. Like Robin. Maybe they ran in the same circles? We know they don’t know each other in person, at least Nancy doesn’t know HER.

FOLLOW ME HERE: What if Robin knew Barb?? What if Barb confided in her that she had feelings for Nancy, but that Nancy was dating Steve and we know how hard Robin goes for her friends so she just made this assumption that Nancy is a priss????

Then season four of course, we see Nancy not going to California. She’s frustrated that Jonathan wouldn’t be coming and she stayed for the basketball game for her front page news right?? Why didn’t she take another flight hmmm??? And we think she’s jealous of Robin, but what if she was jealous of Steve??? Because we don’t really have indication that Steve and Nancy have spent much time around each other since summer ‘85…but Robin and Nancy go to school together. Robin is in band which means they’re in the same room *hypothetically* for the important games that Nancy needs to document. We don’t know how many games Steve went to besides the one, he could’ve been working on some of those games or on dates. So ipso facto, Robin and Nancy have (probably) been in the same room more than Steve and Nancy….why would she suddenly be jealous of ROBIN???

And you can see her genuinely enjoying being around Robin after her monologue at the psych ward when she was being “annoyed” and “on edge” with her before that. I don’t see that as “oh well she started considering her a friend” I think she had a crush, she was on edge because she had lost Barb and didn’t want to feel that way about another girl. But the monologue relaxes her because she realized Robin is just as unhinged as she is, but in a different way. Because Nancy Wheeler is IMPULSIVE. She’s smarter than hell, but she is so careless with her own safety.

Also every time the Bylers shippers contrast the Wheeler siblings really they’re just giving us Nancy Wheeler is gay proof too. Because look at their similar behaviors. They fight and bicker in a way that says “i know what you are, NO I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE”

NOT VERY STRAIGHT IF YOU ASK ME.

Also, while I now understand my attraction to men is because I was a queer trans dude the entire time, I used to think it was comphet. But everything I feel about men is different than the way Nancy feels about men. It feels forced, it feels like she thinks she HAS to have a boyfriend and HAS to force a real connection with them. COMP. MOTHERFUCKIN. HET.

In conclusion, for the love of god, let Nancy Wheeler kiss girls. Natalia wants it, the fans want it. Give us a SMOOCH.

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eddiezpaghetti · 4 months

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Your perspective on Byler is super interesting, thank you for these posts! I agree that Byler isn't queerbaiting, but what if it's still an accident in the sense that they intended to tell a story of unrequited love from Will's pov (like Steve/Nancy, or Dustin/Max in season 2), and this is what those shots of Will between Mike and El are for, and didn't realize that Mike could be seen by a part of the audience as queer and possibly loving Will back?

Okay, for the most part, I'd just be reiterating the post I already made. So let's narrow this down to something more specific. Why is it not like Steve and Nancy or Max and Dustin?

Let's look at Max and Dustin first. I'll make a post about Steve and Nancy later because this wound up being longer than I meant for it to be.

What first comes to mind with Max and Dustin is the moment it really ended. When Dustin saw Lucas and Max together in the junkyard. If Dustin and Max were similar to Mike and Will, parallel to them, then the moment Dustin saw Lucas and Max together in the junkyard would be the same beat in their stories to the moment Mike and El reunited in the desert.

However, take a look at how they're shot.

This, versus

This.

And, just as important...

This scene.

AND this scene.

As I said in my first post, the reunion scene is shot that way--with Will making direct fucking contact with the camera--because he's supposed to be the one you're paying attention to in that scene. Not El and Mike.

Likewise, you're supposed to be paying attention to Dustin's feelings in the shot where he's watching Lucas and Max, but you'll notice some key differences.

One, Lucas and Max arriving together is shot as significant, as the focus, before it shifts to Dustin's reaction, instead of Dustin's reaction being shoved INTO their arrival. There's an over-the-shoulder shot to show that he (and Steve) have noticed Lucas and Max arriving, but the focus is still on Lucas and Max, reiterating what the audience already knew, that they're blatantly going to be The Couple, as was made pretty clear by their previous scenes, which brings me to the next point.

Their previous scenes. Their previous scenes. Lucas and Max had previous scenes leading up to that moment in the junkyard. THOSE--Lucas filling Max in, showing up at her house, convincing her to sneak out so that he can prove that everything he's been telling her is true and winning her trust, and Max giving him at least that much benefit of the doubt--were the real equivalent to El and Mike reuniting in the desert (isolated from Will). You want the audience to care about a couple? This is what you do. You give them private moments. And I was truly remiss in my first post not to point out that...Jonathan and Argyle were also there. So was fucking Brenner. Why didn't we see them? Why was the scene shot in such a way that you briefly forgot their existence but Will Byers was staring into your soul? You know why.

Getting back on topic, the final piece of the puzzle here is the scene that followed Dustin accepting that Max liked Lucas and not him. Once more, Lucas and Max have a private, tender scene. Emphasis on private. Once more, we get them alone. They talk, get everything they have to say out in the open, and only once the conversation comes to a lull does the story move on.

You know what the equivalent scene would be for Mike and El? Well, you've got one of two options, and neither is great for them.

First, you have Mike in that scene where he makes the glasses and he starts to say something to El but immediately gets interrupted by Argyle throwing pizza on the table, ker-splat.

And second, you have the infamous "I love you" scene. Which they are emphatically not alone in. Famously, Will starts that conversation in the first place, and his face is hovering over Mike's shoulder the whole damn time. (Again, this could have been shot in ways that made us forget he existed for a little while, and the show decided not to do that.) But, I really must impress the importance of this...

EL. AND MIKE. WERE NOT. EVEN. IN. THE SAME SCENE. AT ALL.

They weren't even in the same place! Not consciously, at least! Sometimes the camera would show El on the counter and it'd be, like, the tip of her nose and a little bit of her brow, but that does not count. That's like showing the phone in a phone call. Her body is basically an inanimate object that only allows verbal communication at this point. Then who was phone? EL WAS PHONE.

Okay, outdated memes aside, my point is that this is not how romantic scenes work. There are things missing, things wrong, and things very present in places where they should be absent. And the creators clearly know this because those are the rules they've laid out before and the path they've followed since. Mike and El never had any private, intimate, romantic scenes in season 4, despite having them earlier in the show. This is carving out the trajectory of their relationship moving forward. It is a vector, it has direction and force, and it is going straight toward the bitter end.

So I guess this is mostly about why El and Mike aren't happening than why Will and Mike are. Which is only part of the equation, true enough. To play devil's advocate here, maybe it's possible that the result is that El goes on to be happily single because there's so much more to life than stupid boys, Mike lets go, and Will pines for the rest of his days. Sure, whatever. Possibility, I guess.

One thing, though.

You wanna know who did have private, intimate scenes before and after the desert reunion?

Ya bois Michael Wheeler and William Byers, that's who.

Edit: I meant to say one more thing that I'm just realizing I forgot to mention. Dustin's face while he was watching Max and Lucas was clearly visible while Will's is not. We can see HIM, but not his FACE. This is like placing a wrapped box in the middle of the kitchen table and saying "Do Not Open Until Xmas". We're gonna unwrap that later.

#byler #meta #anon #As I said I'll do Nancy and Steve later.#Not getting to them isn't an 'I'll have to think about it'.#I've had my argument for them in my head from the second I saw this ask over breakfast.#This is more of an 'I need to practice guitar and get some sleep at some point and I don't think I can do that AND go into Part 2 tonight'#Does anyone else have any questions though?

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admirablespoling · 2 years

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Listen, I know that feelings are mixed in this tag right now but hear me out.

The high of late June is gone and many of us here are still picking apart the crumbs for hope.

However, I want to discuss what I’ve seen going on lately in the general ST fandom. I noticed that many people beyond us Bylers are talking about the Mike/Will/El dynamic of season 4. The love triangle is unresolved and I’ve seen, specifically on TikTok and Twitter, lots of Mike-centered discourse. Melvins are pounding the pavement to defend their ship against even the most casual fans who point out that the build up to the love confession/the confession itself was suspicious or that Mike was an oblivious idiot to Will. People are rooting for Will and I think this was the goal- to make the arc of Byler feel earned, not rushed. Slow burn.

Essentially, I have been seeing a lot of these things happening:

Melvins feeling defensive over the state of their ship. Taunting Bylers and berating anyone who criticizes Mike/Melvin online.

Regular viewers noticing Mike’s inconsistencies and questioning things like his love at first sight lie and how he needed Will to get him to confess.

Bylers feeling defeated. We saw it a lot sooner than others so for us it’s a let down, for others it’s a discovery.

Even though we were disappointed in V2, the Duffers actually did their job. Will is canonically gay and his bestie just happens to be having a very Will-centric and confusing set of circumstances. Yes, there are still people who don’t even notice Will is queer. Those are lost causes. But many people are truly starting to catch on and are more open to the idea of Byler while Melvins are for some reason at their most feral (from what I’ve seen at least).

Just thoughts to keep us all grounded and realize we do not exist here in a bubble and the Duffers managed to get their point across well enough for general audiences to start discoursing around this love triangle being legit, not some joke/one sided thing. People picked up on the imagery in the “two days later” shots (couch, final shot) that were drenched in symbolism.

Remember- the first shot of Mike was in front of his one way sign and closet. They kept him in the closet this season but the door’s not closed. I really think they haven’t derailed Byler, they just got lots of people to see it for the first time in both V1 and V2. The symbolism and subtext never let up all season. It wasn’t the ending we wanted but I don’t think Byler is dead in the water by any means.

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

#byler

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lunabug2004 · 5 months

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My Amateur Attempt at a Mike Wheeler Analysis (S1, E1):

WARNING: This is a very Mike-defensive analysis! I will be (over)analyzing every Mike scene, episode by episode, but if you’re looking for completely unbiased analyses, this is not where you’ll find them! He is one of my favorite TV characters of all time and I’m sick of all the hate, so I wanted to just put my view of him up somewhere. Also, I ship both Mileven and Byler, but I prefer Byler quite a bit more, so this will mainly be Byler-focused, and I will touch on some of Mike’s queer-coding as well.

Season 1, Episode 1:

Mike is playing DnD with Will, Dustin, and Lucas, acting as the DM. This is an early testament to his intelligence and imagination, as well as his role of leader in the party. When Mike is told to stop playing, he argues with his mom, showing his stubbornness and dedication to the game (and the campaign he took 2 weeks to plan). Then, he sees off his friends, making sure they all leave safely. I love this detail, as it shows how much he cares for his friends at such a young age (I mean, how many 11/12 year olds do you know who would do that?). Thanks to the conversation the boys have about Nancy as they are leaving, we also learn that he and Nancy used to have an okay sibling-relationship, but that hasn’t been the case since at least 4 years ago. As Will is leaving, he tells Mike the truth about the dice-roll, “It was a seven,” and I know this is a little detail, but I like that we can see that Will does not want to lie to Mike, maybe a hint towards how different their relationship/friendship is.

When we next see Mike, it is at breakfast the next morning, and he is putting syrup on his eggs, which grosses out Nancy, and he does the typical younger-sibling move of putting syrup on her eggs too just to annoy her. This same morning, when the boys (minus Will, obv) show up at school and Will is not there, Mike makes a worried comment about it, but the other two boys don’t seem as worried. Then they get intercepted by their bullies, being called “Frog-face”, “Midnight”, and “Toothless”, and after Dustin is targeted by the bullies, Mike tries to comfort him by saying his disability is like he has superpowers. This shows his love for Dustin through his want to defend him, even if it’s not defending him to the bullies’ faces, rather defending him from his own insecurities. This showcasing of Mike’s love comes back into play multiple times throughout the season. I’d also like to point out that Mike decided at a young age to surround himself with “freaks” (Lucas because of his race, Dustin because of his disability, and Will because of his queer traits) despite being relatively normal himself. Now, this might just be because he was originally supposed to have a birthmark on his face and that was supposed to be his “freak-ish” trait, or that he just didn’t realize he was doing this because he obviously doesn’t see these things as bad, but I thought it was still interesting to point out.

When Mr. Clarke shows the boys the radio after class, we learn that Mike is the president of the AV club, then they are taken to talk with Hopper about Will’s case. Mike takes the lead in answering Hop’s questions, now this may just be because Hop calls on him specifically, but I’d like to think it’s also a way to show Mike as the leader of the group. He is the one to bring up helping look for Will, and we can see how serious he is about this because when he is denied this, and Dustin and Lucas start bickering, Mike looks completely annoyed.

He doesn’t give up on this want to help look for Will either, as we see him arguing with Karen about the same thing during dinner, and he still looks extremely annoyed and worried when denied again. When Nancy blames “Will getting lost” for not being able to leave the house, Mike immediately gets very defensive of Will, and outs Nancy’s new relationship with Steve. He looks very proud of himself after this until Ted speaks up with “You see what happens?”, which causes Mike to get defensive all over again, this time exclaiming that he’s the only one who cares about Will, then storming off from the dinner table. Now, I want to touch on Ted’s comment here, because really what other than Will’s “queerness” could he be commenting on here? And this shows us, 1) what type of views Mike’s grown up around, and 2) that Ted must believe there is a chance that Mike shares the same “queerness” as Will. After storming off, Mike goes to the basement, then seemingly after some time staring at the DnD board, he contacts Lucas about going to find Will despite being told not to so many times. By doing this, he directly puts himself and the others in danger, and we know he’s aware of this due to how he convinced Lucas to join him.

We see Mike leave the house, and after joining with the boys, even when it starts to rain, Mike is the most determined to keep going into the woods to search. He’s also very obviously being the leader of the group at this time, making sure to tell the other two to keep close and stay on the same radio channel just in case. When they are walking deeper into the woods, we see Mike in the middle and at the front, then he’s also the first to hear the rustling of the leaves, so he gets the boys to shut up. Then they find Eleven!

There's my episode 1 deep dive! If anyone finds anything explicitly wrong, or wants to add anything, please let me know! Also, if you're interested in me doing more, please tell me, because this is completely self-indulgent, but if others enjoy it I will try even harder! Also, I am completely new to Tumblr, so pls be nice

#mike wheeler analysis #mike wheeler #stranger things #st analysis #byler #Jay's saying stuff :)#Jay's talking ST <3

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pholiabanna · 11 months

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By romanticizing Reagan, I mean it’s clear that ST is the kind of the show for the boys in class who wear ironic Reagan/Bush sweaters. Y’all interpret it progressively but that’s confirmation bias. To lots of the audience, stuff like the Reagan/Bush sign increases the show’s coolness factor! Reagan is popular! A lot of people wish they could live in the 80s for that reason. Mileven is literally the show, the main relationship of the show actually. But y’all think the duffels are writing Byler as some top-secret queer plot twist, when the brothers just wanna make money and create a fun nostalgic show like the movies they grew up on. Will has the least amount of lines of any “main character” too. I love ST and don’t think it’s bad. I think it’s a super fun show but it’s not meant to be subversive. It’s meant to boost eggo waffle sales and shoot Kate Bush up the charts. Mike is literally an all-American straight boy. That’s it. That’s what his character is. He’s not “secretly gay.” Major shows don’t write secret queer relationships in tea leaves and snack signs. Don’t cry when Byler isn’t real

Oh, yeah

Come on

You get the limo out front (oh-whoa)

Hottest styles, every shoe, every color

Yeah, when you're famous it can be kinda fun

It's really you, but no one ever discovers

In some ways, you're just like all your friends

But on stage, you're a star

u get the best of both worlds Chill it out, take it slow Then you rock out the show You get the best of both worlds Mix it all together And you know that it's the best of both worlds The best of both worlds, yeah

You go to movie premiers (is that Orlando Bloom?) Hear your songs on the radio (oh-whoa) Livin' two lives is a little weird, yeah But school's cool 'cause nobody knows Yeah, you get to be a small town girl But big time when you play your guitar

You get the best of both worlds Chill it out, take it slow Then you rock out the show You get the best of both worlds Mix it all together And you know that it's the best of both You know the best of both worlds

Pictures and autographs You get your face in all the magazines The best part is that You get to be whoever you wanna be

Yeah, the the best of both (Best, best) You got the best of both (Best, best) Come on, the best of both

Who would've thought that a girl like me Would double as a super star?

You get the best of both worlds Chill it out, take it slow Then you rock out the show You get the best of both worlds Mix it all together And you know that it's the best

You get the best of both worlds Without the shades and the hair You can go anywhere You get the best of both girls Mix it all together, oh yeah It's so much better 'Cause you know you got The best of both worlds

#byler #Imagine thinking Mileleven is literally the show #And not idk the whole supernatural plot #I promise you no one would like the show this much if it was centered around a bland middle school relationship #And again the duffers themselves said it is that deep you are the one choosing to believe it isn't

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wibble-wobbegong · 1 year

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you talked about purity culture and this weird demonisation of anything sexual as soon as it comes to the queer characters before - which is especially weird when it comes from teens who are themselves queer and have fallen victim to this infantilising purity mindset - but i'm just going to stress it again. if you're watching the show with the assumption that characters who are canonically in love can not in any way shape or form have attraction implied in their relationship.... buddy i don't know what you're expecting s5 to look like? so you want these two characters to get together right. but you think showing anything more than a peck on the lips is fetishising and sexualising and whatever other buzz word gets thrown around? because in all honesty, with the track record st has of how they get ships together i don't think you're getting a two second peck on the lips 😭

like, be as much into purity culture as you want but you're watching the same show that had one couple get together by hooking up in some random conspiracy theorist's dingy bungalow two seconds after kissing for the first time and the other by making out in a church shirtless covered in bruises and on the run from authorities... the only couples that didn't get this treatment are the Children. and Byler post time skip will be around 16-17. that's potentially even older than stancy when they were hooking up regularly. if Byler don't at least get to make out or kiss with more than a peck on the lips it would honestly give weird vibes compared to all the other canon relationships. if all the het ships get more than a peck and your main gay ship stays all innocent and pure you're having a very apparent homophobic bias

i'm not saying the show will be graphic, of course it won't, None of these getting together scenes were graphic. but just saying. if you watch s5 waiting for a Byler endgame with your purity glasses on you Might get a bad surprise. (i'd be curious though if these people would actually hold a morality grudge over the show afterwards. like you said with the hose implication, no one was even mad at the show for the scene, it was just at people Acknowledging the scene)

CHEERING CLAPPING CHEERING anon im kissing ur brain

#the way i have the best anons in the world #go off!!!#asks

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kafkaesquebird · 2 years

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*Long post ahead*

Okay, I’m going to go out on a limb here and just say that Byler will happen--if not in volume 2, then most definitely in season 5. I’ve been lurking in this tag for some time, specifically ever since volume one dropped, and I have seen the endless essays of pessimism and doubt that’s been bogging people down. While I share your guys’ doubts to an extent, I can’t fully bring myself to accept that Byler won’t come to fruition this season or the next. I hope my little tangent will provide you with at least some reassurance, because to be honest I’m searching for as much as I can before our hopes are either fulfilled or brutally crushed in t-minus 23 days. I’d like to preface this with saying that character/ship analysis posts are not my area of expertise, but I’ll give it the good old college try.

Alright-y. So. Season 4. There’s a lot to cover character-wise, but let’s just go right ahead and jump into the meat and potatoes of it, starting off with the dichotomy that is Mike Wheeler. According to Finn, Mike is trying to figure himself out this season, and, as we the audience know, he’s very kind of oblivious when it comes to his and other people’s feelings, and Finn also said Mike was a bit clueless. Up until this point, it seems that Mike’s character arc (vis-à-vis his relationship to El) has been flat and banal. They’re in a precarious place in their relationship right now; a fragile place. Having Mike and El repeat the same break-up-and-make-up storyline from last season is bland, and I don’t exactly see the Duffer brothers going in that direction again because it’s cheap and quite frankly a let down. This is where Byler comes into the mix. Despite the potential backlash it might face--having two main characters in a gay relationship in such a massive franchise--I do believe that it is in no way contrived, regardless of what some vociferous shippers might claim. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The foundation for Byler has been laid since the very beginning, and if you rewatch the previous seasons you can see the evidence if you make a conscious effort to. Especially on Will’s side. And if you take into consideration the sudden wave of Byler content being churned out by Netflix social media accounts and the actors themselves (looking at you, Noah Schnapp), it becomes increasingly apparent that they are trying to warm the general audience up to the idea of Byler. Hell, I’m convinced Noah and Finn have had barely any press together because they’d be giggling and twirling their hair if the ship was so much as mentioned. Either this is some elaborate queer-baiting scheme (during pride month, too), or we’re genuinely getting Byler. But I digress. What I find particularly interesting, and what really has me convinced of the ship happening, is the amount of heart-to-hearts Byler share this season. The bedroom talk, the talk on top of the car, (and the leaked talk in Hopper’s cabin). Those talks feel emotional. Special. It feels like the dynamic of their relationship is beginning to shift, and what that entails has yet to be clarified until volume two comes out (get it? ha). It feels like it’s all building up to something, like a big reveal. But we’ll see when we get there. For now, I’ll just let the open closets next to Mike Wheeler speak for themselves.

Before going any further into my excessively long post, let’s touch more on Mil*ven. A wedge has been intentionally driven between Mike and El for the second time. It’s undeniable to shippers on both sides, although the explanations for why begin to differ from there. Mil*ven’s relationship has been somewhat tenuous this season, and arguably it was tenuous in season 3 as well. It’s a dying flame that both Mike and El are trying to rekindle, with El seemingly putting forth more effort into salvaging it than Mike. Calling into question the integrity of Mil*ven for a second time seems odd to me, unless it’s going somewhere we least expect it. Now I’ve seen speculations floating around about how Mike can’t say ‘I love you’ back because of his parents’ inability to properly show love to one another, and while I sort of buy into that I think that there’s a deeper, less-superficial spin to his reluctance to say those three words, let alone write them to his girlfriend. Throughout this season, Mike has felt suspiciously off-kilter. Odd. Sure, he’s lovey-dovey with El when they reunite at the airport, and a little bit during their time at the rollerskating rink--but then the fiasco with Angela goes down, and this is where it takes a sharp nose-dive south. Mike makes an insensitive comment during dinner about the ordeal, which hurts El who abruptly leaves the room. Later on they have their argument, and El brings up the elephant in the room: Mike’s refusal to say ‘I love you.’ Rather than say it back to her, he gives her empty answer after empty answer. Answers she doesn’t believe. He even calls her ridiculous for raising valid concerns she has, and he gets defensive. Comparing this scene and the scene with Will and Mike in the bedroom, you can see the difference in Mike’s body language and his delivery clear as day. But where did his refusal to say/write ‘I love you’ come from? This passive, aloof attitude toward their relationship? If I had to wager a guess, it’s Mike unknowingly facing identity issues. He’s conflicted, and he’s confused. His awkward exchange with Will at the airport--a far cry from their farewell hug just a few months prior. His insistence that Will and him are just friends. Friends. His curiosity and reaction to Will’s painting. Mike loves El, there is absolutely no doubt about it. Whether it is romantic or platonic is the million dollar question, and I’m leaning towards the latter. Let me say that platonic relationships are in no way beneath romantic relationships, and a lot of times they are even stronger and run viscerally deeper. For Mike and El, they started dating at a young age before they could really, truly discover themselves and what they want. They dove into it head-first; two kids head over heels for each other--the girl with superpowers and the boy who saved her. They were perfect for each other; they’ve been through hell and back together, and share a trauma bond. But as time goes on, Mike starts to slowly realize that his feelings for El have been misconstrued all along. Being Mike, he’s too damn dense to reflect on himself and continues acting as if everything is fine when in reality it’s far from it. This sounds an awful lot like someone who is struggling with newfound feelings and trying to push them down to maintain a semblance of normalcy in a life that’s been extremely hectic and traumatic.

Point of the matter is, there is a method to the Duffer brothers’ madness. Everything they do in this show is tastefully methodical and so well thought-out to the minutest detail. They planned this story since the very beginning. I seriously doubt they will pursue such a pivotal plot point only to later discard it, especially since it could benefit all three characters’ arcs in a unique way. I think they’re definitely building up to Will’s confessing to Mike, and I have a book of theories centered around that that I will keep to myself for brevity’s sake. In short: have a little more faith in this ship. You’re not delusional, and you’re not over-analyzing. You’re observing things that are supposed to be observed, and drawing conclusions that need to be drawn. I will gladly eat crow if I’m wrong, but something tells me I’m far from it.

#Byler #will byers #stranger things #mike wheeler #ship analysis #i originally wrote this at four am and then went to bed before posting #didn't touch on if it's requited or not but i think it will be

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threewaywithdelusion · 9 months

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I truly don’t understand people who think Byler is going to be canon. This is nothing against people who ship Byler, because I absolutely see what would draw people towards that ship.

But some people genuinely think it’s going to happen in season 5 and that’s what I can’t wrap my head around. Stranger Things is a show written by, as far as we know, two straight men. It’s a mainstream show and it’s target audience is everyone from teens to adults. A large portion of this audience is going to be straight.

The Duffer brothers are probably patting themselves on the back for their excellent queer rep. They have two whole queer characters in the main cast. I think there’s a decent chance Robin will end up with Vickie, in which case we have three characters who are confirmed gay and one gay couple ending up happily together. The Duffer brothers have been at least exploring the fact that Will could be gay since season 1, when Joyce said that Lonnie used to call him gay slurs. They committed to it in season 4, but also in a very subtle way. Queer audiences saw this coming years ago. I rewatched season 4 with my parents and had to explain to them that Will was crushing on Mike. (I straight-up said those words and they said, “you mean… he likes Eleven?”). Straight audiences are not picking up on some Will/Mike love story. And yes, I don’t think Mileven was super well-written in Season 4. But that’s a problem with the writing itself, not proof that the Duffer brothers don’t intend for Mileven to be endgame.

Also, Mike is arguably The Main Character. Especially with how he was framed in S1. Modern shows might make one (or several) main characters or series regulars queer to show how inclusive they are and appeal to queer audiences. But I truly don’t believe we’re at a point where you can make the main character queer without alienating straight audiences (especially if your fan base is not just younger people). Maybe that’s cynical of me, but I think people want to watch shows with queer representation but that aren’t Queer Shows. And that’s what Stranger Things would be if Byler happened, because both Will and Mike (two of the main leads) would be queer and together.

Even if the Duffer brothers wanted to make Byler happen from a creative perspective (which I seriously doubt), it would be a terribly marketing move. I just don't believe we live in a world (at least yet) where predominately straight audiences want to watch shows with large gay casts. (Of course there are exceptions, but I'm speaking in generalities). So while I totally think there's space for Byler in fan fiction and that it's a fascinating dynamic to explore, it bewilders me that people think it's going to happen for real. I think this comes from being in fandom spaces and/or interacting mostly with queer people.

The majority of the world isn't the fandom and also isn't queer. We're still years away from a time where a hugely successfully, mainstream money-maker like Stranger Things can make two of its main characters queer and in love.

I adore the world y'all are living in though. I don't think we're there -- but I hope some day we will be.

Addendum because I wrote this quickly: I also think Mike/Eleven are a really important relationship that is central to the show. That's not to say that Will and Mike aren't, because I do think they have one of the closest friendships on the show and that there's something special about their bond. But the show, from the beginning, has centered around Mike and El as the protagonists for the kids' generation. Their love for each other and trust in each other has been a huge characteristic of both Mike and El and a huge driving force for the plot. They haven't adequately set up a pivot from that central relationship, and I don't think they could do it in the final season without doing a disservice to the past four seasons, but especially to El, who is the center of this whole show.

#stranger things #someone is going to yell at me for tagging this but #byler #will byers #mike wheeler

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ash-the-wise · 2 years

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I mean it’s pretty clear that mature gay ships where the dudes are hot and can actually hook up with each other are better than children who just sit there softly. That alone makes it better. But narratively, with Harringrove, you have a traumatized and emotional wreck of a closeted gay man in Billy merging together with Steve, an attractive jock and bi con who once thought he was straight but realized the truth. And you have a powerful enemies to lovers tale! And with Steddie, you have an attractive metalhead, outcast from society, freak, weirdo, finding his home in the arms of Steve the Hair Harrington. Either way a win for queer representation, unlike Byler which consists of two soft, vanilla boys, one of whom is 99.9999% likely painfully straight

Just so you know, reading this successfully made me want to die 💙

I still hope you're trolling, and if you're not I hope you're at least queer yourself because that's a spectacular demonstration of how mlm relationships are being fetishized and IT'S GROSS. Gay people don't exist for your entertainment. If you want to see boys "hooking up" just go watch p*rn, keep it to yourself and leave the Stranger Things teens out of it fr.

Mike and Will are proper representation because they are two MAIN characters and because their relationship has been developped and focused on for the past 4 seasons. Mike and Will are proper representation because one of them is CANONICALLY GAY AND IN LOVE WITH THE OTHER. Mike and Will are proper representation because if they actually got together, it would send the message that queer people don't have to settle for their second choice, but that they can also have their happy ending with the person they truly want.

And I'm sorry but if you deem Mike to be 99.99% straight then so is Steve because he never displayed ANY sign of being attracted to men (whereas Mike was jealous of Max and Lucas when they caught Will's attention, and he was also definitely flirting with Will in his room in S4). Eddie is also not canonically queer; he has known Steve for A WEEK; and he's DEAD. And again, even if Steddie had gotten together, it wouldn't have been as impactful as Byler because they have barely interacted and because it wouldn't have sent the same message of hope, as previously said (i.e. it wouldn't have undermined the "sad gay guy hopelessly in love with his straight bff" trope).

And for the rest, I won't even try to explain why Harringrove, a ship involving the most toxic character in the whole show, would NOT be proper representation and would just reinforce stigma against gay people.

So to sum up, you don't want proper queer representation, you want to see two dudes getting it on for your own pleasure and that's gross.

I have nothing against Steddie or Steddie shippers (except those who are just here to fetishize them *cough*); I enjoy fanfictions that explore their dynamics (because YES it IS interesting) but they are NOT proper representation.

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #will byers #harringrove #steddie

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fuckmeupjackson · 1 year

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this is mike getting vecna'd-- foreshadowing i know it

i know someone else has most probably spotted this before, but I just noticed this a while back and haven't seen a post on it so here it is. Choking is a common imagery this season/throughout the seasons so that's what sparked this connection in my head. Sorry if this has been said before i just posted this cause haven't seen it posted.

Argyle's Arm = The Vine

El = Vecna

Pizza = Vecna's Hand lol

Mike = Max // which makes since given how much they've paralelled each other this season.

Plus Max looks through the "window" of Vecna's mind and immediately sees a memory of Lucas. This = Will watching thru the window.

u can just imagine will saying "but I'm right here" in his head. man.

Not to mention there is a blue + yellow box right in front of El in the frame; Since El is the person doing the "vecna-ing" here, what it means is the union of Mike and Will through Byler (represented by blue + yellow coming together) is what's scaring Mike the most, it's his monster, it's Mike's inner fear and shame (that Vecna would love so much to prey on), it's what Mike does not want to try, just like the pizza. Haha good job, self, you got that one *pats self on the back*. Oh, and you know what? Since it's kind of in Will's line of sight, I think it shows that the idea of Byler is Will's "monster" too. The thoughts of his love for Mike probably haunt him at night just much as Mike's love for Will haunt Mike, but for different reasons. For Mike it's his fear of being queer and for Will it's a little more about the devastating feeling that he'll never be loved back by Mike.

Oh damn and also the lights right in front of Will are off, the ones that are separating the two of them. Probably maybe symbolizing how Will is being left in the dark, Mike is ignoring the light that Will provides for him? The light is dead because Will thinks he lost Mike. And the blinds are closed and a dark shade of grey, showing just how "blinded" mike is being in the scene.

OR WHO KNOWS maybe Mike looked at Will when the shot moved away from him, the directors just don't want us to know.

Now 1 more thing, TBH, i don't actually think it's positive that Vecna will be "Vecna-ing" people in season 5 in the exact same fashion he is in season 4. Maybe that's a hot take idk lmao. He changes his tactic every season, and I just know whatever new strategy he chooses will be very different because 1. he has to come back from the dead with a new body and 2. he needs to use a tactic that brings him closer to Will/El than ever before. Closer to their minds probably. But that doesn't mean he won't be use his mind-manipulation strategies on Mike at some point, i think he will, or at least Mike's struggles would somehow reveal his love for Will.

---------

Sooo basically this parallel I've posted here COULD be foreshadowing a Vecna scene just like Max's to come for Mike s5, OR this parallel could actually just be a signal to the viewer, like symbolic imagery, that Mike is hiding just as much, if not more, than Max as of season FOUR, and he's going to have to face the consequences just like she has so far. He's going to have to let the truth show in one way or another, regardless of how. If anything this shows Mike is actually falling behind Max in her journey of revealing the truth:

--Max's internal conflict has been revealed to the audience; Mike's has not.

--Max actually looked through the window while being vecna'd, and she heard Lucas, but Mike didn't even look at Will through the window while being pseudo-vecna'd.

--That combined with all Mike's sunglasses/black-out glasses [which happened RIGHT before this scene in the pizza shop] imagery is a yikes lol. He can't see his truth. Gawd poor boy is in trouble. Alexa, play Blind by SZA please.

#lmk if someone else said this idw to seem like im stealing credit lol #i wont be sad #byler #stranger things #stranger things parallels #byler parallels #byler x lumax parallels #hope this was cool ig

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emblazons · 1 year

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Honesty Hour: I am literally never going to understand “Duffer doubt” or full abject disappointment in them as show runners…and it’s because their story makes sense.

Like. The fear for queer rep thing I understand completely, but so far, even with how little I resonated with S3 or S4-2 at first…they are solid writers with a sense of both direction and their audience, and I have no core issues with what they’ve presented.

Forewarning: pettiness, byler doubt (only mentions for context) & potential elitism idk (it’s also a little long lmao)

This idea The Duffers are gonna drop every single thing they’ve set up from the get go to accommodate the most surface level, least in-character storyline “because heteronormativity” is absolutely insane to me. The idea that, after setting up FOUR SEASONS of buildup, they’re going to kill off the primary protagonist of S1 and drop every single character lesson / core narrative to shove the YOUNGEST CHARACTERS in the gd show into a Disney fantasy marriage is crazy. I literally don’t even know how to imagine them doing that—not because it has never happened in a show, but because hearing them talk about ST makes it clear it’s BEEN mapped from the get, and they have explained clearly why certain things went the way they did in their own way.

Noah got cast on a monologue from a second season before they even have a confirmation of its existence, and character traits we are just pulling on now in characters like Mike (his insecurity especially) are written CLEAR AS DAY in the PITCH OF THE SHOW. Every single sign people on THIS LITERAL APP have pointed to for Y E A R S before S4 that Will was gay turned out to be right, and there has been, from the very first moment Netflix picked this thing up, a 25 page document where they broke down the UD lore.

Where on literal earth are people getting that they have no idea what they’re doing? Or that the lore people point to as foreshadowing is gonna get thrown out the window in the final season of the show? I get being nervous or anxious that your favorite character might not get all the time you want, or even being afraid that they won’t dig into all the things you want personally, but…the idea that two self-proclaimed film boys who were as into their inspirations as we are their show are going to undermine their own narrative integrity to pull a 180 on every theme they’ve set up from the get go and start killing off characters who are front and center in the “we tell the stories of the outcasts as a fuck you to the people who make media we think sucks” narrative? I’m gonna need you to be serious.

As a long time fan and fandom consumer of television, and someone who had to live through being invested in Game of Thrones, I am saying with my whole chest that the doubt is entirely emotional rather than based on anything objective that the duffers have said or done.

They’re not D&D from GoT, who were great ADAPTORS but who just started winging it because they didn’t have completed source material from GRRM. They aren’t the Voltron writers who had a good premise but mixed it all up because of firing their best writers and then caving to fandom nonsense. They aren’t the supernatural writers, or the Sherlock writers who set up an ongoing joke without the follow through people expected. They are the Duffers. And while their writing style is nothing like what I would do, they are telling a story that I can follow and respect until proven otherwise.

All this talk about “mistakes” and the like, even with queer rep. Like??? They released this show in 2016, and the last several years in its country of origin have been absolutely steeped in a horrifying level of bigotry both sociopolitically and in media. Stranger Things was released the same year Tr*mp was elected, and still managed to stand in abject criticism of every value on display in American conservatism ever since.

The push and pull of what was “allowed” in media because of the cultural insanity & bigotry that moved to center stage in the United States makes it clear why they didn’t bring their queer storyline to the fore at first glance and just put it in the subtext—to tell the story without being undermined by the “two seasons and cancelled” era of Netflix before it got huge (because, as we all know, Netflix and cancelling shows is a huge problem for many writers to this literal day) and to keep the bigots on main from noticing it until the train was too fast to stop. That’s what we’re dealing with now—a lot of people yelling loudly on places like Reddit, expecting to be consoled in in their homophobia and bigotry, because now Stranger Things is popular and far along enough to start saying the quiet part (that has ALWAYS been there) out loud.

Hiding the queer storyline in the subtext is something people have done in tv and film for DECADES anyway, and in literature for CENTURIES before that…but somehow the fact that it wasn’t made explicit until the fourth season invalidates it? Or makes it suddenly a reason to call into question the integrity of the entire show, or to let some random m*leven shipper undermine your sense of what makes a good story (which is also what matters most to the “we don’t listen to Reddit, and we regret focusing more on fan theories than our plot” duffers)? Once again: I’m gonna need you to be serious.

All I’m saying is that the way some people in this fandom are willing to believe and agonize over the takes of 18-19 year old actors or a random twitter account or YouTuber instead of listening to the creators of the show + looking at cultural context and how queer stories have been told for eons is crazy. It reeks of immaturity insecurity and media illiteracy, and gives two guys who have put a lot of time and (ADMITTEDLY IMPERFECT) effort into a show that remains one of the best told stories (despite network interference) in recent memory.

I get being nervous. I get being suspicious. But critical consumption & media literacy is more than just theorizing about what things mean or watching what inspired The Duffers. Stop looking at social media posts and randoms for information and start paying attention to the people who MAKE the things you’re so emotionally attached to in their context. I am literally begging at this point.

#forgive me but...sometimes I'm just like ??? friends please #esp with all this talk of ‘leaks’ today before we even have gd SCRIPTS #I had to get it out of my system I promise I'm back to contented on main after this LMFAO #I could literally talk about this all day though. there are so many facets ugh #the duffer brothers #st commentary #my st commentary #stranger things #duffer brothers

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whenyourshipfinallysetssail · 2 years

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Just some random

STRANGER THOUGHTS 2

***SPOILERS FOR SEASON 4***

*****My smoldering hot-takes on the season’s hottest DILF. 🥵******

Jeezus, is it a million and one degrees in here, or am I trapped in a Russian Prison with Enzo?

See, that’s funny because you’d think a Russian prison would be cold, but then there’s a hot DILF in there.

Question number one: ok yeah enemies to lovers but has anyone ever tried “helpful prison guard to sexy cell mate?” Is that a trope? Can we make it one?

Now you’re probably asking yourself, does this crazy bitch ship Hopper and Enzo?

And the answer is yes, of course I do, but not in an “I’m gonna be mad if this show doesn’t make this cannon” sort of way. I know nobody is queer-baiting me here. If anyone is queer-baiting me it’s me. I’m very good at it, thank you very much. I can imagine incredibly straight men are in love when they’re on screen together in my eyeline for too long. That said, Ronance, Steddie, Byler, and Jargyle: make it canon or we riot. [How fucking dumb was it when they just threw a random chick at Argyle to show the audience he’s got a big case of the not-gays? Who cares. This show loves smashing straights against each other. Show me some bi 80’s teens or shut the fuck up. Also, watch out, everybody, cause the Mileven Mafia is about to come gunning for me: I don’t give one single fuck about Mike and El’s relationship and I never have. El’s busy, guys. She’s got a whole “facing down an inter-dimensional existential threat/I’ve got two dads but one is abusive and one’s in a gulag” thing going on. Fuckin’ don’t make her date a boy right now.]

Now, back to that gulag. Ah, Enzo. Dimitri “Enzo” Antonov. My imaginary boyfriend that someone else imagined for me, who is never going to date my other imaginary boyfriend from Season 1 [on TV, at least. In head canon it’s already happening and you can’t stop it] for two reasons: A) because obviously Jopper is a thing and the writers aren’t going to suddenly drop that just because we got season 2 of the gay pirates. (But wouldn’t that be WILD? What if they had shot two versions of the ending and they held back Vol. 2 so they could use the gay ending if Our Flag Means Death got renewed? Would the internet survive the aftermath?) And B) my two boyfriends can never date because canonically Season 1 Hopper died in Season 3 when the Duffer Brothers got amnesia and started telling David Harbor to just scream at everyone in every scene. RIP, baby. I still love you.

[Side-Note: I’ve got so many good hashtags for this ship you guys: #jimitri #hopptonov #enzopper #hoppzo. They write themselves. These men fit like puzzle pieces. Sexy, sexy little puzzle pieces. Mmmm. Cold, boys? Why don’t you two papa bears snuggle up for warmth? Yeah . . . Yeah . . . That’s real cozy . . . . . . . ANYWAY]

And of course, C) #jimzo #twopigsinablanket [lol, they’re both cops] is never gonna happen because they’re absolutely setting up my glorious Russian cinnamon roll for a tragic heroic death.

Look, snow-muffin, I love you. You’re the steely-eyed, growly-voiced, salt and peachy mustached, true friend to the death, morally grey Russian with a not-so-secret heart of gold of my fuckin’ dreams. I’d watch a whole spin off that’s just you teaching your son to ice fish in silence. I want you and Mikhail to defect to America and move in with Jim and El and wind up in a super bi thrupple with Chief Hopper and my self insert OC. (Her name is Azelia Moondragon, she has three different color eyes, she can change genitalia at will, she has an IQ of 3.6 billion, and and she’s more powerful than the Mind Flayer, Vecna,El, and eight demogorgons put together . . . Nah, just fuckin’ with you. Her name’s Kate Kauffman and she’s a 38 year old therapist from New Jersey with a secret drinking problem.)

Listen, my ice duke, my proud Siberian wolf, my shot of Svayak with a spoonful of caviar, we both know you could have an AMAZING arc in Season 5. We both know you could wind up snatched by the US government and forced to remain at the lab in Hawkins while the feds scramble to cover up the existence of the Demogorgon you saw, that you could have a moving side mission to bring your son to the US illegally while you help your bestest pal Hop and his annoying girlfriend [no, she’s fine, it’s fine, I like her, they’re good together, not all the hot men want to kiss each other, and that’s ok] parent their sulky teens and save the damn world.

We both know you could fall madly, passionately in love with the mysterious new psychologist that the lab hires to provide you and the other Demogorgon survivors “trauma and readjustment therapy,” but who has secretly been tasked with wiping your memory so you can never go back to Russia and tell the world what you know. We’re both well aware that after she succumbs to your arctic-foxlike charm, Dr. Kate Kauffman could never bare to wipe your memories, that she would instead confess that she is not a psychiatrist, she is in fact a powerful psychic, a subject of the experiment that preceded Hawkins Lab, that in a fit of tears as she laid bare her secrets she would lift up her sleeve to reveal the mark on her wrist, faded, but perfectly legible: “000,” and then as you took her in your arms and told me no harm has been done, all is forgiven, you’re here to protect me now, the two of us would begin to float into the . . .

*Ahem* At any rate . . .

My beautiful near-winter ermine, we both know you have so much potential as a character. But it’s time for both of us to face the harsh, cold facts, so much colder and more harsh than the winters of your beloved homeland.

Dimitri, my darling, here are the reasons we both know you’re definitely not making it out of Season 4 alive:

1) You’ve got a son to get back to. ROOKIE mistake, my love. I’m frankly astonished at you. And you revealed it RIGHT before the big monster battle? I mean, why don’t you just do a big monologue about how you two are going to open up an awesome rabbit farm when you get home? Do you WANT to die? Baby, I volunteer for a suicide hotline. Next time you feel compelled to confess touching details about yourself the night before you face a deadly threat right at the end of a season arc, call me. We can talk it through. You have so many reasons to live!

And of course, that is why you are going to die.

2) Where is Mikhail’s mom?

Now, this one’s interesting. Arguments COULD be made this could go either way.

The facts are these:

You’ve made zero mention of your wife in all this “reflecting upon our lives as we stare into the gaping maw of death” talk. MAYBE your wife divorced you, and that’s why you don’t like to talk about her. Seems unlikely, given Hop got you to punch him by implying she was disloyal. (Although we can’t rule out the possibility that that remark hit just a little too close to home. Perhaps your drive to be seen as a hero of the Motherland in the eyes of your son stems from a need to demonstrate you are the REAL daddy, a bigger, braver, cooler man than the stepfather his mother left you for? Interesting. We can discuss this again in your next session, Dimitri. That is, if we even do any talking next time . . . I mean, what? Huh? Oh! Right, the thingy. Yeah, sorry, I uh, got distracted by the . . . Nevermind.)

ANYWAY, the much more likely answer is, Mikhail’s mommy is deadzo. You are not only a DILF, you are a hot widower, and the show runners are saving this juicy detail for the inevitable “calm before the coming storm,” beat, the moment just before your heroic sacrifice during the final battle or the crazy escape sequence, when Hop says something cheesy like “You’ve got to rest up. Tomorrow you’re gonna need all your strength to hug that wife and kid of yours.”

And you’ll stare just left of camera with your gorgeous, steely gaze, and you’ll say in your low, haunted voice “I will need strength for only one hug. I am all the family my son has left.”

BOOM. You’re dead. The emotional stakes just got higher and all the Duffer Brothers have to do now is fry ‘em up in the bacon grease of tragic irony and serve them to the audience with a side of mashed dream-potatoes as we weep for you. Now your son is an orphan! And Season 5 has a ready-made cute Russian to bring in and fatten with all our collective emotional investment before the final slaughter. [Fun fact: the third ritual sacrifice of a beloved fictional Russian in a series opens an actual real portal to a hell-dimension in our world!!! The last one opened on January 15, 1968, when the finale of The Man From U.N.C.L.E was broadcast! It was only closed by “chance” when the counter spell was “unwittingly” triggered by casting Armie Hammer as Illya Kuryakin in the GUY RITCHIE directed remake. GUY RITCHIE. Did you know he made a King Arthur Movie?! The Lock, Stock, and Every Movie Jason Statham Has Ever Been in guy. Made a remake of a 60’s tv show and a King Arthur movie with WAY TOO MANY GOD DAMN WIZARDS. Anyway, like I said, luckily the portal was closed, but the things which came from its depths still roam our Earth, seeking raw flesh and fun 60’s fashion accessories. Remember, Ritchie has more dark power and arcane knowledge than he’s letting on, and always wear an ascot or a cute colorful beret when you go out or you will perish horribly!]

Then again, there is a hopeful reading of the no-wife-scenario. MAYBE, dead wife means no strings to hold down the season 5 Enzo romantic D plot. MAYBE they’re leaving you open for more hasty and gratuitous hetero coupling! Doctor Kauffman?! Paging Doctor Kauffman to the set of Stranger Things Season 5! They’re prepping for your close up! And after that, you’re making ST history, they’re setting up to shoot the show’s first sex scene with two adults!!!

[remember when we watched two teens awkwardly fuck while Barb was gruesomely murdered in Season 1? That scene has gotten even LESS comfortable somehow as the actors have aged. You look back and see how young they look compared to now and you’re like “yikes! I know the actors were actually twenty, but please! No more babies fucking, thanks!” Glad they stopped doing that shit. If I had to watch El and Mike fuck I’d hurl, for more reasons than one. LEAVE HER ALONE AND LET HER FIGURE OUT HER SHIT GOD DAMN IT I DON’T NEED TO SEE HER PUNCH MIKE’S V CARD I DON’T CARE THIS ISN’T EUPHORIA ITS A GOD DAMN SCI FI 80’s THROWBACK FUN TIME ABOUT PSYCHIC BABIES!]

So, yeah, no wife could mean free meat for the season five Hetero-pairing meat grinder! There’s hope!

. . . Hope? . . . Who am I kidding? I’m sorry, Dimitri, but this is no time, no world for hope! This is Stranger Things! Do you really think we’re gonna make it out of another season with two new cast members still alive like we did in Season 2? No. No, in the end they killed Billy for his hubris in daring to outlast Bob Newby. All good looking things must end, my dear. Let us kill hope now, before she hurts us again.

3) This Show Fucking Loves Killing Precious Russian Moonbeams [alternatively titled “Are The Duffer Brothers Attempting to Summon The Ravening One From Beyond the 9,000th Eye?!?! Stay Tuned For Season 4 to Find Out!”]

I don’t know if, like, everyone in Russia knows everyone in Russia, but, like, probably not? It looks like a pretty big country on the map. But, Enzy, baby, can I call you Enzy? No? Ok, well, Antonov, sweetheart, do you remember Alexi? He was this really cute, funny, enjoyable Russian sidekick they had last season. We had so much fun with him! At first, we thought he was this bad Russian scientist who was going to help screw over our beloved friends, but in the end, he actually teamed up with them! We all really came to love Alexi! He was kind of a fan favorite! People wrote long, rambling things with a lot of weird jokes in them about him on Tumblr. And then . . .

Sound familiar?

Call me a pessimist, but I just don’t think the Duffer Bros can pass up an opportunity to murder a beloved fictional Russian. Besides, it has been long since the gate was opened. The Ravening One cries out for more tender flesh from our own corporeal plane. Its inessence rumbles, its dark mindlessness bends upon our dimension with all the fell, unfeeling intent and obsession of otherworldly instincts. The Duffer Brothers are thinking of doing a 60’s throwback for their next show, and Guy Ritchie is slated to direct the first seance, I mean episode! . . . Plus they’re like so attentive to details, they’d never kill three Russians on accident! Or forget their birthdays.

Dimitri “Enzo” Nikolai Andronic Niklosky Antonov, we could play this little game of denial, dream this little dream of happiness, torture ourselves a little while longer with what can never be. But neither you nor I are fools. Let us say goodbye now. Let us bid farewell to visions of you doing a really cool group side mission for one or two episodes with Steeve and Eddie and Robin and Nancy and Dustin and Max and El. Let us not cling any longer to fantasies of an episode beat where the adults go out on the town and you and Hopper get in a big bar fight with some assholes who are teasing Joyce and Murray, and you do lots of cool punching to some banging 1987 hit like, I don’t know, RICK ASTLEY’S “NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP?!?!?!” [Did I do it? Does it count as Rick Rolling if it’s in text?]

Let us let go once and for all of our wistful longing for all the dopamine-explosion moments as you interact and bond and integrate with the entire Stranger Things ensemble, the giddy spectacle of novel combination after novel recombination of beloved characters, that heady right of passage of exploring increasingly bizarre pairings and group dynamics all new ST characters who survive their first season are treated to, until the dread Season 5 finale ultimately tears them all assunder as the eldritch gods of the Upsidedown inevitably triumph and wipe all away with one mighty, slimy tendril of inter-dimensional horror.

All I can say, Enzipie, Dimipants, Antobutt, is that it’s been one hell of a ride. You may be just a corrupt guard of some remote, snowy prison in the middle of nowhere, betrayed by his crooked accomplice, imprisoned alongside his former captive, escaped with the aide of unlikely allies, and doomed by the conventions of narrative drama to die, but you melted my heart.

At least we get to keep Eddie! . . . Right? Duffers? DUFFERS?!

TOUCH HIM AND YOU DIE, GOD DAMN IT!!!

*begins sobbing and singing unintelligible Russian dirges while pounding the table rhythmically with fist*

#enzopper #jimitri #hoppzo #hopptonov #jimzo #two pigs in a blanket #stranger things speculation #stranger things season 4 #st4 spoilers #stranger things #dimitri enzo antonov #enzo stranger things #ronance #steddie #jargyle #Byler #humour #stranger things meme #hopper x enzo

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deanismysavior · 2 years

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I kept seeing people comparing byler to other ships that were pure queerbait, like d*stiel, st*rek, johnl*ck and probably others, and I don't think it's a fair comparison at all. As far as I know, none of those ships were planned, they happened because fans felt the chemistry between the actors and they started shipping them, so they became really popular, but the writers never meant to make them canon. sure, they were assholes because they shamelessly queerbaited their audiences for years, but those relationships were never going to be canon, that was never the plan. With byler though, Will was always meant to be in love with Mike, this ship has been half canon since the very beginning, so previous shipping disappointments lol don't mean that byler will not happen either. they're different situations.

Yeah, as I've said before on here being a HUGE destiel shipper myself is that we really can't compare the two. Supernatural was supposed to end with season 5, and Kripke never wrote with any intention of making Dean a queer character, and I'm pretty sure Kripke didn't even like the idea of adding angels to the plot at first, so he sure as hell wasn't planning destiel. It was only after Misha came onto the show to play Cas and saw how much chemistry Misha and Jensen had together on screen that the direction of their story got muddled. There was a constant tug-of-war happening in the writers room because there were many writers who wanted to explore the depth and nuance of that relationship, while others wanted to just focus on the show about brothers and guns, even though Misha's presence on the show literally saved it from going under and bought them an additional 10 years on air. As much as we all saw the potential in destiel, there was never actually an expectation that the writers were going to go there up until maybe the last few seasons because there were simply too many cooks in the kitchen and the CW execs didn't want their launch of Walker Texas Ranger to flop, so they had to hang onto their conservative audiences. It was messy and disastrous because destiel was being pulled in 15 different directions at once.

Stranger Things has always had queerness written into the story. It was in the initial pitch of the show and in Will's character description. The Duffer Brothers have far more creative control in working with Netflix because they don't have to pander to an entire network, and the branding of each Netflix show is completely different, whereas channels like the CW and MTV have a niche market that they generally target for. The Duffers also have a tight writers room and directors that they trust to convey the story. The storytelling and the arcs have been outlined from the beginning, and at least somewhat fleshed out much further in advance than serialized shows like Supernatural or Teen Wolf that only really plot arcs for one season at a time. The truth is, Byler has been intentionally built up in a way that none of those other ships have, and I think that's important to recognize. You literally can't compare them, because while one is an opportunistic choice, the other has been laid into the very fabric of the show from the beginning.

#byler #byler endgame #byler nation #ask #will byers #mike wheeler #will x mike #mike x will #stranger things #st #will byers is gay #mike wheeler i know what you are

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duskdrawings · 2 years

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Kind-Of Rant About ST Queerbaiting

I know it may seem silly to get so worked up over fictional characters and relationships but, honestly, this whole queerbaiting bullshit with volume 2 of Stranger Things season 4 has really thrown me. And it's not just a problem with this specific show by any means and I do love Stranger Things a lot and I always will - but I just feel that so much potential was lost and it could have been so much better.

I wasn't expecting all of our beloved gay ships to become canon and everyone to come out and ride down a rainbow together but we literally didn't get ANYTHING of substance (Besides some bare-bones last minute attempt with Vickie and Robin, which felt rather lazy to me, especially in comparison to all of the other pairings in the show that seemed to get plenty of airtime).

I've experienced plenty of queerbaiting in the past with other shows but after so much of it, it just gets to the point where I almost feel like, is this all we'll ever get? I feel like we deserve so much better than this. How wonderful could things have been if such a huge mainstream show really said "fuck the str8s for one second" and gave us Byler or Ronance or Steddie or even just a proper coming out scene for Will or Robin (as literally only Steve knows about her being gay) or someone else.

Why is it that a character could be so strongly implied to be gay but so many people still deny it and say it's wrong? (Heck, even after Robin literally saying she likes girls and NOT Steve, plenty of people STILL try and pair her up with Steve). Why do we always have to strongly justify gay pairings when so many straight pairings have been thrown together for literally no reason, besides the fact that they are a man and woman and know each other in some form. The amount of times I've sat through films and watched a man and a woman get together and have had NO IDEA why and the amount of times I've seen two people of the same gender have amazing chemistry and potential but then get sidelined for some straight coupling that came out of nowhere.

And why should we have to be happy and grateful for literal crumbs. The emotional scene with Will talking to Mike and basically saying how he felt about Mile but framing it as if this was El, I already know plenty of people will take that and say we are reaching, whilst others will say we should be happy that we even got that. Why should we be happy when a big chunk of the audience can't even tell that the meaning behind it was gay?

Also there's that whole "we need more healthy friendships between two guys/two girls", which I understand to a certain degree but also that's literally MOST of what we have anyway. Most shows revolve around the girls sticking together, the guys sticking together and anytime a girl or guy interact then they MUST want each other.

Whilst queer fictional characters don't HAVE to have a storyline surrounding them being queer, I just feel like there should be at least some kind of canon recognition of the fact that they are queer in some way? We shouldn't have to come out but with where we are at the moment, we still have a long way to go with representation and I feel like it's a bit different with fictional characters. It doesn't even have to be anything big and loud and ground-breaking, just give us SOMETHING. And when we do get something, there's always people saying that it wasn't necessary and questioning why we need LGBTQ+ representation? Which I don't even have the time to go into all the reasons why we clearly need it!

And I know people are saying that something could happen in season 5, but why must we always have to keep sticking around and just hoping that these writers will throw us a bone right at the end of their shows? Whenever we do get LGBTQ+ representation it often has to get thrown in right at the very end, so we often barely get to see much actually come of it, or the LGBTQ+ characters end up dying at the end anyway. Is it too much to ask to see a group of 80s outcasts being rainbowy together?

But my Ronance heart will forever stand strong, regardless of what the Duffer Brother's do! And it honestly makes me so happy and proud of our LGBTQ+ community to see everyone rallying together and wanting to create content to fix all the problems the show had, so our favourite characters and ships can thrive. Now that's truly something special! So, to end on a happier note, FUCK queerbaiting and all of your favourite characters are alive and LGBTQ+ and all of your favourite ships are canon! Why? Because we say so! 🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

#ronance #steddie #byler #it really is sad gay hours #queerbaiting #ao3 is going to save my little gay heart #i absolutely love the lgbt community so much #we are some creative people #seriously fanfic writers deserve the whole entire world #thankyou for keeping all of us fed with the good gay content #let will say gay #let robin say lesbian

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