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thethingsweneversaid · 9 months

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Am I crazy or did I just crack the mystery of the monologue scene????

Why did they lose against Vecna in season 4? What were they missing?

They lost the race against time. Time was obviously significant this season (The grandfather clock, Vecna's obsession with time, the UD being frozen in time). The time was simply up, they were too late. Who’s to blame? Mike Wheeler.

Okay, let me explain, haha.

Throughout the whole series we all know Mike being late, or almost late to things is recurring. Every season in fact. S1: Mike’s campaign was too long, and he tried to get the party to stay past their curfew. S2: Mike was trying to get in contact with El on his walkie, almost making him late to the arcade. S3: Mike was almost late to the cinema because he was with El, making them almost miss the beginning of the movie. S4: Mike was reading El’s letter, almost making him and Nancy late for school... He begins every season with a race against time. Also worth noting that El was the reason for him being late in s2, s3 and s4. Also ALSO worth noting that in season 1, Mike begs his parents to let the party stay longer. The campaign took two weeks to plan! They need to finish it. He has no rush. While in all the other seasons (when he was late because of El), we get a "Shit! Shit! I'm going to be late"-version of Mike. He's stressed out and rushed. Not sure where I'm going with this last point, but I'm sure it means something and that it'll make sense in s5. The point is, Mike gets distracted by El.

Now for the monologue. This time, it's not Mike getting distracted by El. It's him distracting El.

Jason was obviously a key reason for them being too late as well. The scenes switch between Lucas fighting him and Mike’s monologue, comparing the two. Jason destroys Max’s walkman, destroying her connection to Lucas and the world outside her mind. Mike tries to get El to wake up by lifting her out of the freezer, taking off her glasses, Will shoves the radio away. They’re trying to get her out of Max’s mind and into the real world again. But El doesn't want to wake up. She is ready to fight for Max. The boys obviously tried to help because who knows what would’ve happened if they didn’t? They thought El was dying. When Mike begins his monologue, El looked away from Max and up “towards Mike’s voice”. She was listening to him now. Getting distracted. El continuously tells people throughout the series to be quiet when going into her “trance”. People talking distracts her, and she needs to concentrate. Mike also reminds the audience of the importance of the sensory deprivation tank. "It helps her calm down and focus on her powers". With Mike removing all the aids that help her concentrate (the glasses, the tank, the radio), while also talking to her, we can only assume that now, El isn’t only fighting to save Max, but also to stay in Max’s mind, further slowing her down.

At the end of the monologue, Mike reminds her she has to fight, and El’s eyes snap back to Max. That’s when she breaks loose from the vines. Whether you think El believes what Mike is saying and utilizes his loving words for strength or not, it’s still a distraction. I’ve seen a lot of people say that they felt impatient while watching this scene. Like «get on with it! Vecna is literally killing Max RIGHT NOW». And we're probably right to feel impatient! That's probably what the writers were going for! The audience was supposed to feel like that. El lost valuable time because of it. Mike is making them late this time too.

Will is also kinda to blame in this (I don't blame any of them, it's just an unfortunate set of events and they all did what they thought was best, but you get what I mean) Because in a way, Mike is distracted too. Distracted from the truth. That happened when Will lied to him in the van, disguising his own feelings for Mike, using El as a distraction for Mike to focus on instead. Will's guiding Mike towards a lie. He convinced Mike that El was feeling a certain way, which she WAS NOT. (For example: "You make her feel like she’s not a mistake at all, like she’s better for being different." cue Mike and El’s fight where she accuses him of thinking she’s a monster too, like everyone else.) (This also contrasts Will singling Mike out as the only person that doesn't treat him differently in season 2 in that scene with Will and Jonathan.) Mike doesn’t make El feel the way Will portrayed it in the van, though Mike is led to believe that she does.

Therefore, making the feelings that was the foundation for the monologue a lie. Both to Mike and El. It isn’t authentic. This doesn't apply to them. which brings me to my next point.

"A paladin swears to uphold justice and righteousness, to stand with the good things of the world against the encroaching darkness, and to hunt the forces of evil wherever they lurk. Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness (honesty=righteousness and honor for Mike), but all are bound by the oaths (promises, “friends don’t lie”) that grant them power to do their sacred work. Oaths, honor, and rigid rules define a paladin's everyday actions. Breaking these oaths (by lying) means their deity will revoke their powers."

This is why his monologue didn’t work. It was a lie (And Mike knowingly or unknowingly portrayed that lie to El). Without his honesty, Mike the paladin loses his powers. He couldn’t save them.

Will’s selfless attempt to save their relationship sadly turned out to be counter-productive in every way, hindering all of them from seeing the truth. Will was also the one that told Mike not to stop, when in reality, maybe stopping and letting El be was exactly what he should've done. He's the heart. But he's Will's heart. That's what Will would've wanted Mike to do, seeing as Mike has saved him/snapped him out of his episodes multiple times by speaking to him: Of course Will thinks that's the right thing to do! Mike's doing what Will would've needed, not El.

It adds a new layer to El being upset with Mike in the cabin by the end of s4, because it isn't as simple as "she knows Mike is lying" or "She's just upset because they lost". She's upset because once again Mike doesn't trust that she knows her own limits (This being a huge reason for conflict in s3 between El/Mike/Max.) Mike worries because he cares of course, but it isn't what El needs ("Mike, I need you to trust me.") When Mike tries to help her, she fails. But she "redeems herself" when she's making her own decision, without outside influences other than love for her friends. She pushes her limits further than ever before, bringing Max back to life, trusting herself and her powers, without Mike knowing.

Mike is the heart, yes. The problem was - the heart was in the wrong place. They all got it wrong this time. They got confused and misunderstood each other. That’s why they lost. In the next season, I believe Mike and El are going to realize that they’ve both been focusing on the wrong things, and that is how they’re going to win. Still using love as their weapon - just a different kind of love that’s not distracting them from what they really need, not slowing them down. El coming fully into her own, reaching her full potential and using her powers the way she knows best, with the support of her loved ones making her stronger - not under the influence of Mike trying to stop her out of worry. And Mike’s heart being in the right place. With Will.

I've seen other people talk about this next part, but I'm adding it in because it further proves the point.

Another indication that proves to me that at least SOME of the monologue is a blatant lie is the Romeo and Juliet parallel, with the word "Montague" spelled out behind Mike, and the "love at first sight"-refrence. "I knew right then and there, in that moment, that I loved you." That. is. a. lie. and there's just no going around it. Romeo and Juliet's romance wasn't actually real love, just infatuation. The Duffers also said they don't believe in love at first sight. For them to use that trope wouldn't just be wierd and cliché, but also contradicts everything we were shown in season 1. Are we just supposed to believe that Mike loved her, decpite them showing us otherwise?

More on the Romeo and Juliet thing in this post.

Conclusion: The Duffers are geniuses I’m never getting over this show.

#stranger things #byler #will byers #mike wheeler #byler analysis #stranger things theory #s5 predictions #stranger things 5 #stranger things 4 #st analysis #byler endgame #byler proof #byler theory

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wheelerpilled · 3 months

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'forced conformity is killing the kids'

Mike Wheeler ST5 Theory/analysis

So we've all seen the new BTS of Finn Wolfhard on the set of Stranger Things dropped and OH MY GOD. THE DUALITY FROM LAST SEASON.

I have to TRY write about it ATLEAST...because wow I have a lot of potential thoughts, sorry it's once again unstructured, messy, and repetitive but stay with me please!!!!!!!!!!

I've seen ALOT of people happy we're getting s1-2 Mike hair back but guys .....it's not a good thing!!!!!!!!!! Mike is going THROUGH IT.

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In Season 4 it's acknowledged that Mike is finally coming into his own a bit, Eddie says he was wearing 'whatever his mom bought him' when he first came to highschool, but in episode 1 when we see him for the first time in S4, he's clearly been influenced by Eddie and has figured out what style he likes and what he's interested in, he's in a DND club, he's comfortable being known as an uncool nerd, he's growing his hair out (yes I DO believe it's because he idolised Eddie, I have more to say about that in a second)

basically: his hair and his outfits, aswell as pretty much the way he acts in Hawkins (NOT California- he goes back to pretending to be something else) in S4 represents the ideology non-conformity and his sense freedom in this new persona

he doesn't feel lost in highschool anymore, he's doing what he likes with his friends (DnD) and he's proudly wearing his hellfire shirt around school/Hawkins, basically, he's accepting that it's okay to enjoy 'different' things that aren't considered the norm, and it makes him happy, he feels comfortable!

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But now in Season 5, from the pictures we've seen, it looks like he's fully reverted back into his shell, I guess I understand why tbh I don't blame him:

he comes back to Hawkins after everything and everyone believes he's in a satanic cult- townspeople probably treat him badly and Jason's team mates probably blame Eddie and the rest of hellfire for Jason's 'disappearance' (death). They directly connect him with all the horrible things that have happened to Hawkins as of late

...which is probably what the BTS of them walking towards Mike are about, they probably keep harassing him no matter how he acts and Mike just wants them to leave him alone, let's face it:

High school has probably gone full circle back to middle school for Mike and he's getting bullied/mistreated again. So he feels his only option is to remove himself from Hellfire and become 'normal'.

Hellfire might maybe even be blamed for the gates being opened. Last we heard, the townspeople were hunting down Eddie and the rest of hellfire, and the graffiti on Eddie's grave in the S5 pics shows that he's still very much hated.

Mike probably got harassed by multiple people who don't believe Eddie's dead, or believe Mike was in on it and are out looking for him, or think Hellfire contributed to some satanic ritual causing the 'earthquake' and thus Mike is also a target and it's dangerous for him.

So I think part of the style change and haircut is due to THAT, he doesn't wear his hellfire shirt anymore because he doesn't want any affiliation with the club.

As Finn Wolfhard has said in previous interviews 'mikes just trying to act as normal as possible' so by seperating himself from Eddie/Hellfire and becoming more conventionally 'normal' he won't be treated like an outcast.

He won't be assaulted, bullied, blamed, or worse if he conforms. He has a greater chance of everything becoming better/easier while living in Hawkins if he does this, he might have even given up DnD aswell- so yeah he's gonna be pretty MISERABLE in season 5

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Alot of people wanted to see his reaction to Eddie's death, I think we'll definitely be seeing the lingering after effects of it, and alot of Mike's arc will kick off because of the aftermath of the vilification of Hellfire.

Only few people know that Eddie died to try protect Hawkins, Eddie was a role model for Dustin and Mike, but they're grieving him in COMPLETELY different ways

Dustin decides to honour him by taking up a similar style and proudly wearing his hellfire shirt, and is also probably trying to sway the town's opinion on Eddie and prove him innocent.

....But Mike seemingly decides that he DOESNT want to end up like Eddie anymore: dead and hated, known as a satanic freak.

Someone he idolised is now deceased, he doesn't know how to properly handle that fact, it's intimidating that someone he looked up to do much could be so hated, and in turn has caused the reaction from Mike that is basically 'if my idol is treated as such a horrible outcast, and I wanted to follow in his footsteps, where would that leave me?' he's feeling lost and hopeless, especially with the state Hawkins is in, so he probably decides the best thing to do is just blend in. Be normal.

It probably scares him that even merely his interest in DnD and all these other factors immediately make him a target, as far as townspeople believe- Mike is one of the kids who was close with a brutal serial killer, they probably think he's just as 'messed up as Eddie the freak was' for staying friends with someone who'd do such horrible things

I think Mike just wants to hide as much as he can right now, he has ALOT on his plate and doesn't need the rest of the town out to get him.

so if anyone asks: he'll probably say things like 'I didn't really know Eddie! I would never join a cult like that, I didn't know!' or something to try seperate his name from the hellfire club.

Mike will end up picking protecting himself and hiding his true identity and values/traits rather then living exposed and vulnerable; yet true to what he actually believes is right....And that is the opposite of what Dustin is doing,

Dustin is a proud hellfire member and friend of Eddie, he's picking what he thinks is right over self-preservation from the town, he's still wearing his battered shirt, now HE'S the one growing his hair out, he still adores Eddie and misses him (so does Mike probably, but he feels he CANT outwardly publicly show support or stand up for him)

I do wonder if this will cause some sort of tension between Dustin and Mike, because Dustin is doing the opposite and becoming more like Eddie instead of distancing himself from the hellfire name, he might feel betrayed that Mike 'gave up' on Hellfire, and maybe accuse him of not even caring about Eddie or his death?? Idk!!!!!!!!!! I feel like Dustin will also be going through it this season 😭😭😭

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I do also think Mike will try to be clinging alot to El this season (I mean, before they inevitably break up which I believe will probably happen kinda early on if it actually happens at all)

this is also because just the idea of having a girlfriend corresponds to his idea of conformity and being 'normal'. He just wants to be a normal guy, his life is nothing out for the ordinary, he's not interested in satanic things like dnd and hellfire, he's just a normal person. A normal person who is PROBABLY a target of Vecna in season 5 😓

I believe his arc for this season will be trying to breakout of these notions of conformity in exchange for things he actually likes and is interested in, we saw him sort of branching out in season 4, but I think THIS time it's happening for real, and he'll end up fully embracing his own views and interests after some sort of emotional arc-which will also probably be part of the M*lev*n break up (not censored because I'm against them/hate them I just don't wanna clog the tag for others 😭😭) OR set off by the breakup

Throughout season 1 he was told he liked El, or others assumed it, so I think he assumed it aswell, they just never broke up because El ALSO thinks having a boyfriend is normal and expected, and because Mike was the boy she was closest to she assumed it was romantic feelings (and he kissed her in S1 which probably contributed to her assuming they were romantic feelings)

Alot of the people around her are also in relationships, and she watched alot of TV with happy romantic couples so she thinks it's more normal to HAVE a boyfriend then to NOT have one, I think Mike and El kinda stayed together because they think they're SUPPOSED to by these social standards,

They obviously care about each other alot, and mistook it as reasons to just stay together, she wants to be a normal girl because only being a superhero isnt good for her, she needs to be 'Jane Hopper' and not '011'. I do think she definitely needs to be single for awhile and find herself, even if her and Mike are to be endgame, she NEEDS at least some time to gain some experiences outside of living her life as a superhero, (Mike also needs character development outside of being 'Els Boyfriend's)

Which is why it was vital that her time with max in S3 existed, so El could realise her value and that there is a life outside having a boyfriend- I think Mike needs a similar moment aswell, a wake-up call of sorts where he can take a step back and consider maybe rather than letting society dictate his actions, he makes decisions for what he wants for himself ('we make our own rules')

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If m*lev*n is endgame then sure that's great for them, but I genuinely don't know what big character arc could be in store for Mike that doesn't involve a breakup and themes of non-conforming, it doesn't even have to involve Byler endgame at all (although I AM a byler truther)

I think Mike learning that it's okay to let go of that romantic relationship if he doesn't feel that way anymore is a big step for his character, or atleast taking a break so he can work on himself, anything along those lines of actual development on himself rather then on his relationship- El and Mike have been romantically paired from the start, he needs to learn that it's OKAY to breakup with someone if thats what he feels is right, (side note: I DO believe El would/will be the one to breakup with him 😭)

I don't think he realises that he'll be able to stay friends with El, it's not 'shes my girlfriend or else she'll hate me for breaking up with her. No other options'

he doesn't want to lose her because he cares about her but he can't find a way to balance that romantic relationship alongside his other friendships. So I think for his character to develop they have to breakup, even temporarily, but obviously that's only my opinion if M*lev*n is endgame then oh well, it's endgame, but I think they would be a really awesome platonic duo and I'd like their relationship alot more if it was that way

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I think later in the season he'll realise that living this way not actually what he wants, and he doesn't want to give up who he is, or pretend to be something he's not- because he IS a nerd who likes DnD, and he does support Eddie, he cared alot about him because he idolised him, and i think season 5 is about him learning that that's okay and he doesn't have to feel so much pressure to conform by societal standards, bro needs a better grief process, forced conformity GOT HIS ASS 😭😭😭

What I'm trying to say is: all of this, and his new look is a safety net of sorts, he's still pretending to be something he's not because he feels he HAS to, otherwise it's dangerous for him in Hawkins because of hellfires reputation, but he's also acting this way because of other factors that I haven't really thought through yet LMAO

I believe season 5 will probably be him accepting those things about himself and embracing it, maybe also undoing his emotional repression along the way, I guess I would describe it as coming of age and I think if it's handled well it could be really beautiful in a way

OH MY GOD I RAMBLED SO MUCH AND IT ISNT EVEN A SOLID THEORY JUST A COLLECTION OF THOUGHTS😭

Sorry that was long and repetitive but uhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah..........anyways Mike Wheeler ily keep ur head up king please don't die in S5‼️‼️ stay safe‼️‼️

#PLEASE READ AND STAY WITH ME IK ITS LONG 😭😭😭#stranger things #mike wheeler #stranger things 5 #st5 #jane hopper #eleven hopper #el hopper #byler #st analysis #finn wolfhard #will byers #eddie munson

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robin-buck1ey · 2 years

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No because when I tell you how they set up Jancy is the EXACT same thing as they did with Ronance, I’m not kidding like look at this shit.

Looking at evidence to try and come up with a theory (Barb picture & weekly watcher article)

Getting caught lying about who they are (said they were reporters & said they were scholars)

Walking in the woods together talking about love troubles and becoming friends

Gun wielding wheeler + fire partner + Steve

Plotting/discovering/ believing two old people others incorrectly labeled as crazy

The only (and important) difference is that robin was always there supporting, believing, and adding on to Nancy’s ideas and plans.

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chirpsythismorning · 3 months

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Can we talk about how Jonathan might've been able to clock Mike simply because of what happened with him and Nancy in season two?

This will be a long post, so you might want to strap in or save it for later.

In Will and Mike's case, it would obviously be much different from Jonathan and Nancy's situation, given that you know, they're gay. But we still have Jonathan arguably going through a similar experience as Will, while Mike is going through a similar experience as Nancy.

In s2, we see Nancy confront Jonathan about how she waited for him before getting back with Steve, which is a revelation to him. Then they're at Murray's and she's struggling to say she loves Steve, after a handful of moments between them that felt like she might return Jonathan’s feelings. And you can clearly see it in his eyes, listening to Murray imply that they have feelings for each other, with him looking back and forth sort of in awe of what's happening, like he's starting to question if she might actually like him back.

Will doesn't have that same affordance as Jonathan to really hope, at least not anymore. Which is why these relationships in s2 and s4 end differently for these two brothers.

Based on all the signs he was seeing that Nancy felt the same, Jonathan decided to take the plunge to admit to Nancy how he felt, and at that same moment Nancy had the courage to show how she felt. In Will and Mike's case, Will wasn't ready to take the plunge to admit to Mike how he felt, at the same moment Mike didn't have the courage to show how he felt.

What's so painfully hilarious to me about all of this though, is that Jonathan arguably starts the season in the same shoes as most of the audience, where from his perspective, it's becoming obvious to him now that Will like's Mike, but that Mike does not feel the same way.

First at Rink-O-Mania, Mike appears a little uncomfortable upon hugging Will. Then as the happy couple continues on their adventure into Rink-O-Mania, he watches Will lagging behind moping. And then unfortunately he's out of commission for the rest of the evening...

But once he's sober and back to being an attentive brother the following morning, we see him watching them at breakfast, with Mike barely sparing Will a glance, all while Will is blatantly staring, almost like he's waiting for Mike to look back, only for Mike to get up and walk away.

All of these instances gotta be SCREAMING unrequited gay love to Jonathan. He's already gotten signs for years that Will is gay, these are now just the signs that are instilling his suspicions that Will has feelings for Mike. He could have easily interpreted their relationship in the early seasons as young best friends, with Will seeming to have a crush on Mike, and with them growing up and that potentially including Will's straight friend distancing himself from him because he doesn't feel the same. It's not the most unexpected thing in the world considering.

But then there's a shift.

Suddenly he's creeping up on them talking in his room. And we know he was listening in on the conversation because he brings up Owens when he sits down. As he's eavesdropping, he's probably thinking something innocent like Aww they're making up! And like, hey! Even if Mike doesn't feel the same, which is okay and entirely expected honestly, at least he still cares about Will enough to make things right after acting so out of character. Still, I'm not gonna lie, that sounded a lot like flirting to me--

Then he's knocking on Will's door like 30 minutes or less later only to find Mike and Will back on their bullshit. Mike suddenly isn't going out of his way to ignore or put Will on the back burner. In fact, he's on his bed and they're talking, again! The door is even closed this time, which is interesting. This has gotta be a good sign in Jon's eyes. Nothing to worry about! Right? Right...?

But then suddenly this shift continues, going in a direction he probably didn't expect.

I mean, this is literally an identical jancy parallel we have here with byler on the hood of the car, with Jonathan right there to witness it. Despite him maybe only now subconsciously picking up on the similarities between Will and Mike to him and Nancy here, he's at least taking note (I mean he's even got his gay map out and everything).

It isn't until the van scene happens, that I think Jonathan starts to genuinely consider his suspicions, which is that Mike might actually like Will back.

EVERY time we get a shot of Jonathan looking back at Will and Mike in the van, followed by a shot of his POV from the rearview mirror, we're faced with Mike looking at Will while Will is looking away.

As Jonathan is hearing Will confirm his suspicions about his feelings for Mike, he's simultaneously witnessing Mike not looking at Will with disgust, but something more akin to reverence. All of those moments in the van that we witnessed, including all the ways Mike looked at Will and everything that was said, Jonathan was right there.

And what's even more insane about this scene, is that it circles back to Jonathan as a character himself.

I remember when people were talking about how odd it was that we never saw Jonathan with a camera in s4. After 3 seasons in a row of making his passion for photography a big part of his identity, that part of him was apparently absent entirely this time around... But was it really?

This is the same guy that said, "Sometimes, people don't really say what they're really thinking. But you capture the right moment, it says more."

Jonathan might not have had his camera in s4, but this was without a doubt one of those moments where he captured something more.

Something that I also think get's highly overlooked about this scene, especially when it comes to Jonathan looking back at them, being followed by a shot of Mike staring at Will, is that he could see both of their reactions the whole time, from beginning to end. Will nor the audience had the affordance of knowing because Will was facing the other way at the end, while we on the other-hand were blurred from even having the chance, despite Mike literally being in the frame. But not Jonathan. He even lets us see what he sees, a few times, but not at the very end, which would have been nice after they didn't let us see Mike's reaction seconds before this.

Let's just stop right there for a second though and circle back to what I consider to be the first time Jonathan really picked up on Will's feelings for Mike, which was at the end of s3, in a sequence that is a little too relevant to the van scene if you ask me, given that they are almost direct parallels.

While these parallels are pretty spot on visually, they are also near spot on narratively when it comes to the evolution each of these characters are experiencing.

For Will in the first scene, it's sadness that he's moving away from his friends in Hawkins and also feeling like he's losing Mike, after what looks like him and El making up, which makes him scared he'll distance himself again. For Jonathan, it's sympathy for his brother who appears to have some very deep feelings for his friend, feelings he can't quite grasp yet but soon enough will.

For Will in the second scene, it's heartbreak that he has to accept that Mike will never feel the same, knowing that supporting his relationship with El (encouraging it honestly) will likely turn out just as it did last time, with him losing Mike all over again, for the last time. For Jonathan it's sympathy for his brother who has now confirmed his suspicions that the feelings he has for Mike are more than just that of a friend.

Given that this parallel reinforces the same feelings Will and Jonathan had in s3 to now, why would this not also reinforce those same feelings that Mike had in s3 to now?

In the first scene, Mike was visibly distraught, with dialogue from Hopper in the background applying a little too perfectly with what he was feeling in that moment, which was scared. He’s apparently back together with El now, despite them doing just fine as friends for the last 3 months, as well as him and Will just having finally gone back to them being on good terms again. But now, it’s like he’s right back where he started at the beginning of s3, feeling obligated to be the perfect boyfriend to El, and as a result, having no choice in his eyes but to distance himself from Will. Mike then walks into his house looking like a zombie, almost emotionless stepping into his mother's embrace.

Now, I say almost emotionless because it looks like Mike was trying to hold back showing how he truly felt in this moment. He's not crying like he did in s1 when he lost Will that first time. Time has passed and things have changed (he doesn't want things to change). And he's trying his best to keep it together. But the in-focus close-ups make it clear that he is definitely not okay.

What's so impactful about these parallels is that it presents the inner struggle both of these characters are having, both queer and experiencing doubts, but in different ways and for different reasons.

Will is the one who covers it all up with lies, hiding the tears in his eyes, because boys don't cry.

Mike is the one who has never cried to them, just to his soul (RUN AWAY! TURN AWAY! RUN AWAY! TURN AWAY! RUN AWAY!!!).

If you actually try to get a gage on Mike's in-focus emotions in that first scene vs. his out-of-focus emotions in that second scene, well they're not that far off from each other.

We go from Mike smiling vibrantly at Will, to him now slowly turning away to look back down at the painting, with whatever the hell emotion this is...

It's near impossible to catch because of how out-of-focus it is, but looking a lot closer, it honestly appears like Mike is feeling something akin to sadness that he's trying to mask. For a moment it even looks like he turns his head to wince emotionally, only to correct himself.

And call me crazy, but these shots also low-key parallel each other. Mike looking down trying to keep his emotions in check and failing miserably, only to look up and meet eyes with someone whose witnessing it.

With each shot before this of Jonathan observing Mike looking at Will, with him showing all the emotions Will never got to see and everything else in between, I wonder what Jon saw this time? Probably another thing he didn't expect.

Can you just try to imagine the silence in this van, accompanied by Will's muffled sobs, and then try to imagine Mike turning to look down at the painting, only to sneak a glance, and then go right back to looking at the painting, IN SILENCE, and then try to tell me how the assumption that Mike didn’t notice Will crying makes any sense, like realistically?

Yeah me and Jonathan are confused too.

Right now, Jonathan's probably wondering why Mike was acting a little fruity and repressed during the painting reveal. And that although he may have a penchant for being able to 'capture the right moment', Mike is sticking with his story (despite all the stalling and doubt). He is 100% straight!

And so maybe this is where Jonathan tries to accept what is being presented to him as the truth, despite the contradictions in front of him. It's likely that despite the way Mike looks at Will and acts around him, in ways he would have assumed coming from Nancy in s2 would've been evidence that she felt the same, it probably doesn't apply to Mike.

Maybe Jonathan's ready to accept that it's a lot more likely Will is experiencing unrequited love as a gay kid growing up in a small town, the most predictable experience a gay kid could go through, and in contrast Mike just feels too bad to let Will down easy.

Or who knows, maybe Mike could still be a little bit gay too...

But it doesn't matter anyways. Mike seems to be adamant about this and so there's really nothing else Jonathan can he do besides tell his brother he'll be there for him no matter what. And so he does just that.

But then Mike just has to surprise him one last time.

For those that don't know, the line Mike gives here in his monologue was in part pulled from Will's monologue in the van. Most don't know this because this line didn't make the final cut for the van scene, but in the official script the writers posted, what we find is an almost a direct parallel.

Which makes the reaction shots of Will and Jonathan directly after Mike says this all the more epic.

From Will's end he was probably hearing Mike say this and just thinking 'Damn. Well, that's what you get for using your feelings to inspire Mike to profess his love to El.'

But from Jonathan's end, I don't think his outside POV of these events overlapping was nearly as naive as his brothers understanding of the events. Because why the fuck would Mike need to use Will's feelings to inspire him to profess his love to El in the first place? Is this what Mike has been struggling with? Really? Why before every moment Mike takes action in this scene, is Will's hand literally pushing him into it? Why is Mike being so dramatic about saying I love you, stuttering and rambling about her being a superhero, not saying nearly as meaningful of things as what Will said in the van?

And then it hits him.

Mike is reminding him a little too much of another Wheeler right now...

Nancy Wheeler, who was afraid of what would happen if she accepted herself for who she really was, leading her to retreat back to the safety of Steve. Because Nancy liked Steve, but she didn't love Steve.

And now here is Mike Wheeler, who has went from being incredibly distant with Will after reuniting with El, something that is very unlike the Mike he knew in previous seasons, to something more himself again after they make up, with him looking at Will with adoration after hearing his words in the van, only to turn away and look heartbroken. Mike who is now struggling to simply tell El he loves her with Will right behind him literally yelling at him to do it.

And now it's like all those little moments are starting to add up to Jonathan.

Suddenly all those signs he picked up on from Will when he was younger are now blending in with moments Will shared with Mike. It was Mike who jumped in after him and his mom's speech to Will in the shed in s2, with tears in his eyes recalling the day that they met (without being asked, let alone pushed to). And it's Mike who is now looking like he's at war with himself as he attempts to give encouragement to El, just like he did with Will in s2, but this time he needs someone to push him to do it, and that person just so happens to be Will. After just finding out about Will's feelings and also while assuming El wants him to love her that way still, Mike is stuck.

I don't think it's takes a genius to consider Jonathan is capable of realizing how fucked they all are in this situation.

As much as Mike isn't ready for a sleuth of reasons, Will isn't ready either.

This provides a huge contrast between the bylers ², because while Jonathan and Nancy went through a similar experience to Will and Mike, them being ready to accept it and act on it didn't involve nearly as many factors and risks. Will and Mike also have the added barrier that is homophobia.

Will's internalized homophobia lies in part with assuming Mike could never feel the same based on some of the words he said in their last two fights, with parts being painfully reminiscent of the things his dad and bullies used to say about him. These are also words that contradict Mike's own words and actions from the previous seasons, things that did once give Will hope. The shame and guilt that comes with falling for your best friend, who you now know will never feel the same after being foolish enough to believe it not too long ago, and who might not even want to be your friend anymore upon finding out the truth, is understandable. He can't have hope like Jonathan can. It's just not the same.

Mike's internalized homophobia lies with assuming El wants him to love her, along with their relationship being expected and socially acceptable from everyone around him. Though unfortunately for her he feels abundantly more in love in the moments he shares with Will. Despite trying to make it work with El as hard as he could, because she's amazing and all any guy could hope for in a girlfriend, he can't ignore the fact that the feelings he has for these two people are different. The shame and guilt that comes with you, a boy, falling for your best friend, who is also a boy, and who is starting to show that he feels the same, all while you can't muster up the courage to break up with your girlfriend, nor can you muster up the courage to tell her that you love her, not when she's begging you, dying or even just simply at the end of a letter, is pretty understandable too. He can't have hope like Nancy can. It's just not the same.

Spoiler: They were not ready.

PS: I'm still not over the fact that they low-key confirmed these events elsewhere in the story...

#byler #st analysis #pocketgate #lettergate #i'm aware this is a hot (big brain) take #but i'm like 76% sure mike understood will in the van scene #also why mike is gonna finally be dealing with some personal business in s5...#just want to add that this makes the scene at Nina hit harder #also #mike trying and failing to tell el he loves her or break up with her at surfer boy and stalling because he just can't fucking do either?#mike's face when will pushes him to profess his love to el right in front of him???#honestly i dont think mike would've gone through with his monologue if he didn't think this is what el wanted in large part #i think he thought that if he did break up with her she wouldn't need him at all anymore #or more specifically if told her the truth she might hate him for it and just not want to be in his life in the aftermath of that #this is why he struggled so much with being honest #it was either lie and suffer but get to keep her in his life most likely or tell her the truth and potentially lose her and still suffer #it's just that now he has literally no choice but to conform and be with her all while knowing it's not what his heart truly wants #the heart not being true to himself jumpstarted the apocalypse #everyone act surprised #byler getting jonathan’d in s5 can be something so personal #no but imagine jon getting even more signals mike feels the same 😭#and he tries to talk to will about it but will just gets upset like pls stop why are you saying this?#or imagine him talking about it subtly with Nancy and her being like no way #only to see it for herself #maybe then Nancy would try to talk to Mike about how he’s feeling #idk I could genuinely see byler just getting byler’d individually #but it’s clear at this point Jonathan is extremely suspicious #honestly all I think it would take is him having intel about their previous fights #if he found out mike defended his behavior by insisting that they’re friends…#jonathan would just be like… oh shit.. the first lie…

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oceanic-sunsets · 7 months

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Mike around El and his very obvious Not-Crush

I want to start this off with a disclaimer: I interpret Mike as gay, so this analysis and the points I’ll bring up were written with this in mind. Now, let’s begin!

Since my first watch, I always thought it was kind of weird-funny how Mike never showed any kind of shyness towards El, unlike the other boys, who the audience and characters in-universe never think of as having a crush on El.

So they know El is a girl pretty early on, so when she first goes home with Mike and he lends her dry clothes, everyone freaks out when she tries to change right there in front of them. Pretty normal reaction for anyone, especially 12 year old boys! So, even in the middle of their freak out, Mike remains as the most well composed of the boys.

He doesn’t turn around, instead, is quick to stop her, even reaching out towards her arms, and explain she should change in the bathroom, because, well, privacy.

He even guides El towards the bathroom door, and we know that he tries to close it but El stops him. So, he understands, she’s still scared, and again, explains she can keep it mostly closed, leaving a small gap open so she feels safer.

And then Mike goes to talk with Lucas and Dustin, who are still freaking out and talking about how she’s crazy, Lucas remarks “She tried to get naked” and Dustin makes the same hand gesture three times to really drive his point across.

And Mike? remains calm, really, his head is elsewhere, not stuck on the fact that a random, weird girl tried to change her clothes in front of them. Instead, his gears are turning, he’s already coming up with a plan so they can stay out of trouble, so she can be safe, and they can keep looking for Will: El has to stay the night, which Dustin finds insane.

So, I first interpreted these kind of scenes as Mike being the more mature one of the boys. He NEVER goes “but she’s a girl!” the other characters are the ones who keep pointing that out to him. But really, Mike just treats her like a human being (and then he discovers she has superpowers).

And really, it’s funny how fascinating they keep finding this, but not surprising. Again, this is a normal reaction! that’s why I thought Mike was just the logical, more mature one. But that’s not really why: he just never made a distinction or a big fuss to separate THEM, boys, and El, a GIRL, until later on when people kept bringing that up. For Mike, El was just another kid just like them, he shows her his house, his TV, his toys, and has no issue getting close and just treating her like another friend.

There’s another reason that points to the Duffers being aware of what they’re trying to do. It’s subtle if you’re not looking for it, and really, it just flies under most people’s radars, including our own!

So we all know this scene, right?

The first instance of Mike being directly told he has to have a crush on her, because… he is nice to her, and she’s a girl. So, clearly. And then the bullies arrive, call Will homophobic slurs and Mike gets hurt, we know how that one goes. But you know the scene that plays directly before this one?

It’s Nancy. They’re making fun of her/shaming her because she hooked up with Steve, and we know how this plot goes too: the girl is slut-shamed and the boy is praised/admired for “getting” her. Nancy is worried because she left Barb alone and the next thing she knows, her friend is missing too. And she doesn’t feel guilty just because she dismissed Barb, she feels shame, and the kind of comment she’s receiving just adds to the guilt.

And all this? it’s part of heteronormativity too, and all its social standards of what’s expected of people based on their gender and sexuality. Nancy? A slut for hooking up with Steve. Will? probably killed for being gay! The boys? get bullied just as Lucas is hugging Mike, even if it’s part of a joke. Mike? must like El, because he is a boy who is nice to her, and she’s a girl! See where I’m going?

Next scene I’m going to talk about is this one:

And… It’s a great scene, really. But nothing about it is romantic. The boys help El dress up, and Mike even does her makeup and doesn’t mind! and, I’m sorry, but what 12 year old with a crush is NOT nervous to be that close? he’s just 100% concentrated in what he’s doing.

And then El comes out, full makeover, and Mike’s reaction is just very sweet and genuine. Dustin hesitates: “She looks…” and Mike immediately goes “pretty”. Now, some people interpret this scene as Mike finally Realizing El is Actually a Girl. I both agree and disagree.

I agree because that’s how it probably goes for Mike, just now in the sense most people expect. We should keep in mind the previous scenes: Mike is now aware of what other people think/what is expected of him. So he goes “pretty”, and oh, no, she’s a Girl, I can’t say that! they’re going to think I have a crush on her! “...pretty good” saved it:) but wait. That just makes it look even more like a crush! So maybe it is a crush, right? So, I think of this scene as the moment of Mike deciding that yeah, it must be a crush, making now a distinction between “friend” and “girl”.

Other people have mentioned how particular this choice is: why would they have Mike next to El in the mirror? in the same scene where she’s presenting herself as Actually a Girl for the first time, wearing a pink dress, next to Mike, a Boy, who is even wearing blue! I don’t even think this analysis classifies as far-fetched for the same reason I mentioned earlier: the themes of the show are clear since the beginning, and plots like Nancy’s, Will’s, and later on El’s (and Max's) support that. Mike’s, however? it comes across as subtle (because really, it’s not), but it’s always been there, and the way the Wheelers are portrayed as a family confirms that too.

I don’t think he consciously makes the choice to pretend, more like it makes sense for him too, and the future events of the show just keep reinforcing this idea: she’s a girl with superpowers, who saves him and his friends many times, and people keep telling him he likes her! why wouldn’t he like her? And then there’s also survivor’s guilt but uhh… Let’s not go there, that’s another whole analysis.

It’s now time to talk about my least favorite topic: mlvn’s kisses. They have never been portrayed as genuinely romantic to me, even if I did think the snowball one was sweet when I first watched it. But that’s the thing: it’s cute, I guess, but it’s just there like a point you have to mark as done in a checklist. Entirely different to Lucas’ and Max’s scenes: Lucas hesitates when he asks Max to dance, and he’s clearly nervous, exhaling before asking, and their kiss is awkwardly endearing, genuine, and realistic for their age unlike anything in Mike and El’s relationship and… The beginning of s3 is proof of that. It’s almost like they’re kissing to prove a point: El is older now, and Mike is her boyfriend, they kiss like in the soap operas! (for Hopper’s and the audience’s dismay) and for Mike, well, El is his girlfriend, that’s what he’s supposed to do, right? (as he takes her hands off him).

Going back to the snowball, Mike plays the “date” role too perfectly. He does exactly what he should: he tells El she looks beautiful and asks her to dance, again, no hesitance. They dance and he kisses her… You guessed it, no hesitance. You could argue that it’s because it’s not their first thing, but the thing is… That one was a mess. It was out of nowhere, after talking about being family, as if Mike suddenly thought “yeah I think I should do this” and went for it. And… Did El even know what a kiss was?

Anyway, back to s3. They break up and all that, supernatural shit happens and oh! Mike tells a whole room of people that he loves El! how can that not be proof that he at least has a crush? well. Because Mike is not lying, just as he wasn’t lying when he called her pretty. He does love her, wants her to be safe because she’s his friend, and feels responsible for her safety (for many reasons). The thing is… Mike is aware of the Implications of the word.

He is being honest. He’s also confusing his feelings for romantic ones, just like he has since mid-s1. What’s the difference between the “ily” plot in s3 and in s4, then? wouldn’t that just be a repeat of the same?

No. This is a point of debate and I know we have different opinions on “When Did Mike Realize”, but for me, the contrast between this plot in s3 vs s4 is that s3 Mike is unaware, while in S4 he’s IS aware Throughout s3 (and before) he genuinely thinks his feelings are romantic. Until THIS happens

…and suddenly he’s confused, thinking it makes no sense. I choose to interpret it this way because it’s supported by the S3 script, which portrays Mike as confused and wondering what is wrong with him. This would’ve been a great moment to portray Mike as endearingly nervous/shy: they’ve been broken up and it seems like no one had said anything that hinted at a romantic relationship during that time. If Mike had romantic feelings for El, he should’ve been thrilled, but he doesn’t move, doesn’t close his eyes, doesn’t even smile. But it’s not disgust, it’s confusion. He’s starting to question things. To what degree? we do not know.

We can, however, infer from the events of S4 that he knows something.

The airport scene is as sad as it is funny, because this is probably the first instance in the whole show that we see Mike Wheeler acting nervous-shy in the way you would in front of a crush:

(Exhibit A)

(Exhibit B)

ok, Mike, Will didn’t imply otherwise? are you trying to convince him or yourself?

(Exhibit C)

(Exhibit D)

This whole conversation is so insane because everyone is so focused noticing Will’s crush that they miss Mike’s behavior? Mike, who during this conversation hesitates a lot, chooses his words carefully, exhales, you can see him swallow and just. He looks more nervous here than in the entirety of ALL his scenes with El on the show.

I could keep going on about s4, really, because there’s a lot to unpack there. But this is getting too long!

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #anti mileven #gay mike wheeler #st analysis #stranger things #mike wheeler i know what you are #i spent way too long on this analysis please give it a like/rb if you read it or talk to me about your opinion #always happy to discuss about gay mike wheeler

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aemiron-main · 1 year

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YEP! THE CREEL MURDERS HAPPENED ON SUNDAY MARCH 22nd/THE NIGHT OF SATURDAY MARCH 21ST! Just like i talked about in this post.

How do i know this? Well.

“Local family man, Victor Creel, murdered his wife and two small children Saturday night.”

And now look at the date on this paper- Thursday, March 26th. Making that previous Saturday having been March 21st, and the bodies were discovered on Sunday, march 22nd.

The same March 22nd as Will’s birthday. This explains why Henry would want to erase that day- it was the day where shit hit the fan in his life.

EDIT FROM FUTURE ME: this is in the Edward timeline (this post was made before I figured out the Edward stuff, so where it says "henry," in this post, add "edward" . I also don't think that Henry or Edward wants to erase that day, that was just my first half awake guess at the time of posting this)

#stranger things #st analysis #byler #birthdaygate #creel family

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goonflower · 6 months

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why nancy dove in after steve

spoiler alert: it isn't bc of 'true love' for steve as eddie and st*ncys suggest.

the first reason is pretty obvious and one i've seen others say before: nancy has a major savior complex. this is the same person who literally stood in front of b*llys speeding car to protect everyone else with her own body. if robin or eddie had dove in first instead she probably would have done the exact same thing.

the second reason is less obvious. think back to how barb died. it was in a pool, right, in water? dragged down by an interdimentional monster? what happens to steve in this scene? he is in water, dragged down by an interdimentional monster.

everything for nancy comes back to barb imo. this whole situation mirrors what happened to barb and this is nancy's chance for a re-do, to do it right this time. its where nancy's savior complex comes from in the first place, that she couldn't save barb. so seeing steve (or really anyone) in that same/similar situation kicks off her urge to do what she didn't know to do that night barb died.

that love eddie saw? it wasn't nancy's love for steve, it was nancy's love for barb. it's nancy doing for steve what she wishes she could have done for barb, if she had only known to.

(also: note how little eddie knows nancy. he's surprised that she keeps guns in her room. why would he know anything about her thoughts/feelings at all? its a total guess on his part based more on stereotypes than nancy as a person.)

#stranger things #nancy wheeler #st analysis #st thoughts #anti stancy #steve harrington #barb holland #fruity four #ronance #< target audience #nancy and barb #barb and nancy #nancy x barb #barb x nancy #stranger things barb #bancy

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byler-alarmist · 8 months

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Disclaimer: I am not anti-Vickie by any means. I think Vickie seems very sweet (although there may be something going on with her we don't know) and I will fully support her and Robin if the Duffers can prove to me in S5 why they work together.

That said, I am going to examine the one, glaring issue I have with Rovickie. If you're not put off by that, read on!

So, most of the criticism leveled against Vickie is that we don't know anything about her. That's true; we don't.

However, my main criticism is:

Does Robin know anything about her??

All we hear from Robin in S4 is that Vickie is the girl of her dreams, but we never hear why. In all her gushing/agonizing to Steve, Robin never tells us what about Vickie makes her so special.

Is she smart? Funny? Ambitious? Kind? Is she a pro at playing poker?

Even Tammy Thompson, whose role in S3 was purely offscreen, got a shout out of traits that Robin valued ("she has dreams!").

We can't say the same for Vickie. All we know is:

-she laughed at one of Robin's (Steve's) jokes

-she likes Fast Times

-she talks a lot when nervous

-she possibly likes boobies

And those last two were only figured out by Robin in the final episode of S4.

If Robin's feelings for Vickie are more than mere infatuation based on looks, wouldn't Robin have told us more than the most surface-level things about her?

And if your immediate response to this "well, she just hasn't spent enough one-on-one time with her to know!" .......that's exactly my point.

The writers have shown time and time again that the shallow relationships where tbe couple got into it without really talking or getting to know each other do not last .

I'm reminded of Lucas telling Mike "you're just blind because a girl isn't grossed out by you." 👀

All this in the same season where Robin is spending one-on-one time with Nancy, getting to know her and respect the things that make her "her". Rather than just looks, Robin gets to see Nancy's drive, intellect, leadership and bravery.

She calls her a "genius", says she is "full of surprises", and learns even more about her when Nancy opens up about her relationship inecurities. Robin sees her complexity.

I don't know about you, but to me, this is the core of why Rovickie is not as compelling as a ship. If they are meant to be endgame, why was Robin paired with Nancy all season?

Surely there could've been some plot device to bring Vickie into the fold, just like Max was brought into the Party back in S2.

Vickie could've been trapped with Robin and the older teens after some supernatural things happened at rhe pep rally or other school function and they got separated from the rest, or she could've been related to the Creels and the gang needed to ask her for help. It's a TV show; they can do whatever they want.

Either way, they decided not to involve her in the main plot of the show at all, preventing both Robin and the viewers from getting to know her fully. I believe this was intentional and will have consequences for their relationship in S5.

One final thought- in early S4, Robin tells Steve that she has found the girl of her dreams but can't get the courage to ask her out, whereas Steve goes on a ton of dates but has no idea what he wants.

I think it would be VERY interesting if their roles were actually swapped, i.e. by the end of S4, Robin is the one who doesn't really know what she wants, and Steve is the one who realizes he has found the (person) of his dreams.

#hope this made sense #it wasn't really meant to be a ronance post #but i felt i had to mention that part at the end #st analysis #robin buckley analysis #stranger things analysis #st thoughts #st brainrot #ronance #stranger things #anti rovickie #<-i'm not really but this is so i don't offend ppl who have these kind of takes blocked #robin buckley #vickie stranger things #st vickie #st4 rewatch #tammy thompson #wlw ship #st ships

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itswhatyougive · 8 months

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Something that's been bothering me is a small detail in ST4 set design, specifically Eddie's trailer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the only place I remember seeing prominently displayed laundry baskets full of dirty clothes, both in the Right Side Up and Upside Down versions of the trailer.

I keep thinking back to Eddie's pointed comment to Jason Carver in the very first episode of S4, about basketball being a game where you "toss balls into laundry baskets". They drove that line home even further by having Dustin repeat it back to Eddie at the cafeteria table.

It's giving me this nagging feeling that Jason and Eddie have more history than we're led to think.

Eddie said it with such bitterness and anger, loud enough that he wanted Jason to take the bait, which he did.

The latest chapters of Hellfire in ST Puzzle Tales also reinforce the fact that Eddie is very very touchy about basketball and the basketball team. He calls it "gross" and he doesn't even want to see Lucas wearing his basketball jacket. It seems oddly "personal", this chip on his shoulder about basketball and Jason.

Do they have some kind of shared history? Is it meant literally, do the laundry baskets have some kind of significance? The Upside Down version of the trailer is stuck in 1983, is it possible three years ago or more Jason used to come over there for some reason? Or is it a figurative thing?

Part of me thinks that new Eddie Munson book that's coming out will have something about Jason in it. Flight of Icarus is set in 1984, so possibly after whatever history he and Jason had. Eddie would be a senior (first time) at Hawkins High School and Jason would've been a sophomore.

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erikiara80 · 1 month

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About Will

Last year the Duffers said that in S5 Will takes center stage again, and now they're even telling us how the season starts, with the flashback of Will in the UD. That's why I think the reveals about him should be huge, like the ones about Henry and El in S4.

This makes me happy. Will and his story are my favorite thing, and I have so many questions.

Was Will really just in the wrong place at the wrong time, a random victim who later became the brother of Vecna's actual target, Eleven?

Maybe. But I'll be honest, I think this would be disappointing. Most of the audience already believes that. All these years, all the mystery surrounding Will, and in the end it was just to hide Vecna, who was introduced in S4, so when we see S5 it's not even a plot twist anymore? Hm.

There could be an interesting parallel with Henry winding up in Dimension X tho. Wrong place at the wrong time. But Henry developed powers. What about Will, who ended up in the UD? Also, if he was just in the wrong place, why did they make his abduction so different from all the other attacks? It's just because it was the first one and they wanted it to be cool? Again, disappointing, imo. And if the reason was just "make the scene cool", I don't know why in other seasons they kept making parallels between the Demogorgon opening the Byers' door, something it only does in 1x01, and El opening a LOT of doors with telekinesis.

I think it's more likely that Will's flashbacks in S5 will be like El's flashbacks in S4. They made us believe that Eleven killed all the other numbers, only to reveal later that it's not what really happened. I expect something like that for Will too. Maybe at first, everything seems to confirm that he was just a random victim, and then we find out that it's not true. Or he was a random victim, but then, like Henry, he developed psychic abilities.

Speaking of that

Does Will have powers or not?

I am a Will-has-powers truther, this is not a mystery lol. But does it make sense in the story? (some thoughts here) Does he have powers like Harry Potter, or the Turtle (here), or Bastian, or he's like Peter Bishop, Marty McFly and Frodo Baggins? Noah said that Will's superpower is his heart, but you know, you can have that and also powers. Plus, in S4 they connect the concept of time travel to emotions, so if there's a timeloop or something like that, and Will's name is on the grandfather clock...

Maybe his abilities are different from anything we've seen. Maybe something more connected to the UD. I'm just saying, why making him a wizard/cleric, if he's just a normal kid?

For example, they never really explained why he's still so connected to Vecna and, I suspect, the UD (because he is also like Radagast, and the kid in Poltergeist, who gets kidnapped because of her powers) Yes, Max seems to have answered that question: when Vecna makes a psychic connection, you are marked. In fact, at some point she even says that she can still feel him. But when she's in his mind lair, she doesn't feel his thoughts. She says that he was surprised and didn't want her there... but he actually says that. Also, they would really answer the questions about the big mystery of Will's connection to Vecna like that, when he's not even the focus of the scene?

That's why I think the answer is more complex for him. Max can't feel Vecna's thoughts or feelings, Will can, like Harry can feel Voldemort. Could the reason be that he was connected to the hive mind? We can't be sure, he's the only one who survived a possession. There are no particles left in his body (as far as we know) or he would've died in S2. So, why is the connection still there and so strong, that the moment he's back in Hawkins, he can feel that Vecna is hurting and wants to destroy everything?

Why in S2 Will knows that the evil wants to kill everyone but him? And why would Vecna/Mind Flayer want to kill everyone but a random kid with no powers, whose only ability was to hide from a monster for a week? Henry Creel considered all the lab kids, people with powers, inferior to himself and Eleven, but for some reason he wanted a sensitive child who's just good at hiding? It doesn't make sense to me.

In the game, they seem to give us the answer. Well, they don't explain if Will was just in the wrong place at the wrong time on Nov 6, but they say that the reason he is the key and Vecna wants him, is that he wants to use him to find Eleven.

If this is true... Henry/Vecna needed Eleven to open a door, so he makes her make a psychic contact with a Demogorgon. When the gate opens, he lets the creature kidnap/kill random people. Then realizes that he can find Eleven, if he uses the only victim he is letting hide in the UD because, reasons. But when she finally is in the void with Will, instead of killing her, he interrupts the contact with Will, goes to Castle Byers, takes him to the library, and impregnates him with a little Demogorgon. And then? What would've happened if Joyce hadn't found Will? We still don't know if the tendril was killing him or giving him oxigen, like the facehugger does in Alien (the parallel with Sarah could be a hint tho), because we don't know what happened to Barb. If she died in the pool and then was taken to the library, or if it's the tendril that killed her.

If Will was actually dying, then the answer in the game doesn't make sense. If Vecna just wants to use him to find and kill Eleven, he wouldn't have tried to kill him. Unless that whole process was supposed to turn Will into Zombie Boy, a creature of the UD, similar to Vecna, who could find Eleven. That's a bit complicated, tho.

Not to mention the whole possession in S2. Again, let's say that Vecna didn't want to kill Will in the library, but just turn him into a monster. He failed. So, when Will is home, he makes him have visions, then possesses him, with the intent of killing everyone but him. Because he wants him to find and spy Eleven. But in the 1959 flashback, in TFS, and in the game, we see that Henry can read any mind. So, sorry but why does he need Will, specifically, to find Eleven?

Also, if the particles can just possess you in a vision and then appear in our world, why didn't they possess more people? Easier to find El, and even if you lose Will, you still have the others. It's what the Mind Flayer does in S3. The big difference? In S3 the particles are already in our world.

So I wonder if Will is the only one Vecna/Mind Flayer can possess like that, because they were already connected before the possession

Ok, in S3, the Mind Flayer takes a guy named William because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And then he uses him to build a monster that finds Eleven and takes her powers. So, maybe the 'wrong place, wrong time' is true, but the rest... is interesting. Jonathan says that they built Castle Byers the way Will drew it, and MindFlayer!Billy tells Billy to build what he sees. Also interesting that there are two Billies. It reminds me of If I go there will be trouble, and if I stay it will be double (different timelines, twin imagery, Henry and Edward, Richard and Martin. And Will and Eleven?)

So, my theory is that Will and El are more connected than it seems, and that's why Vecna needs Will. And maybe he is also using him to "build" his army, and make the UD spread? I don't know.

But for all these reasons, I think it would make more sense if Will wasn't just a random victim, or at least he's developed some ability.

Will has parallels with Cerebro (here) and Nancy says that the lights came to life when he was in the UD, a parallel to what Steve says in S3, (Let there be light) after Will senses the Mind Flayer for the first time at the mall. When he's watching a zombie movie. There's also that beautiful theory (I don't remember who posted it, sorry) about Will being connected to the light particles and using them to destroy the black particles of the Mind Flayer.

Light particles that look like fairy dust -> Will being called fairy. Lights that come to life -> a battery

I think I've found some big hint that this theory might be correct. Anyway, it seems that Will is connected to the very existence of the UD. Not saying he created it, but if lights came to life when he was there, maybe if they interrupt the connection, that place, whatever it is, will cease to exist.

#st s5 spoilers #st s5 #will byers #will has powers #el hopper #henry creel #the first shadow spoilers #st: tfs #st s5 theory #st vecna #st analysis #st parallels #stranger things

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