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#spicy byler
spicybylerpolls · 2 days
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@"we're not pure magical fairies" anon!
Damn, I've been thinking about this topic so much. And getting heated about it. It's no secret that fandoms in general tend to be dominated by women, and in the case of the byler fandom, it's also overall a pretty youthful fandom. Sexuality is such a charged topic, it's so powerful and personal and runs so deep and THAT is why I need to see it portrayed with utmost authenticity. So truly, it's hard to take when people try to censor conversations surrounding a topic that means so much to me (having grown up gay in that time period). I appreciate people's thoughts and interpretations but a hearty FUCK NO to trying to censor or police gay male sexuality. I mean, damn.
Really, when people referred to hosegate as "sexualizing" mike and will, that was disheartening to say the least. It implies imposing sexuality, framing it as something separate from the characters - rather than us just interpreting the scene (and others) as intended: mike and will are hot for each other. Oh lord! Imagine! I just came away from all that feeling quite weird about my own sexuality for the first time in many years. I should seriously know better than to let such things get to me. But shame runs deep. Gays who survived the 80s know. And not only them, of course!
I've actually been looking forward to post st5, because I believe that's really the time when we will get a broader perspective of gay and bisexual men's thoughts and feelings about this storyline.
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problematicbyler · 2 months
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an incomplete history of byler sexuality discourse
and how widespread fandom purity culture and homophobia created a flourishing nsfw sub-fandom
some may call me chronically online, but i call myself a fandom historian. i've been a member of some fandom or another since i was about thirteen, and i've always been interested in the rise and fall of fandom discourse. though it's annoying in the moment it's happening, i think it's very interesting and telling to look back at the overall arcs and trends.
so, let's talk about the many times the fandom has cancelled people over byler sexuality, and how each level of "hornygate" has contributed to the growth of the proship/byler smut community.
(i use the term proship in its intended definition, which is to say, not "problematic shipping," but rather being pro-fiction, anti-censorship, and anti-harassment; it is a position of believing the fiction one creates or consumes doesn't reflect a person's real life beliefs or morals.)
i have been a stranger things lover since season 1, a byler shipper since season 2, and an active part of the byler community on tumblr since season 4. i'll mostly be focusing on post-season 4 discourse because that's what i've really been most present for and that was the period that really marked a turning point in the fandom.
seasons 1-3
i wasn't as plugged into fandom discourse back in the day, but the broad strokes of early discourse was mostly thinly veiled homophobia. claiming that it was sexualization to assume will or mike could be queer despite blatant queer coding, implying that analysts were no better than will's bullies to assume his sexuality, etc etc. people were criticized for shipping byler at all because they were so young (but these people naturally had no issue with mileven, so, again, homophobia).
season 4 (may-july 2022)
now, season 4. this is where byler was brought to the attention of a lot more fans, and stranger things' viewership reached wider than ever. the byler fandom on tumblr booms from 4k to 100k over the course of season 4's release.
this brought a lot of new people who have never been in fandoms before, people who never learned don't like don't read or your kink is not my kink and that's okay or ship and let ship.
or, a lot of times, people who had only been in fandoms for celebrities and bands, which tend to have different rules when it comes to shipping and sex, because they're real people. hence a lot of young antis' conflation of character with their actors, but that's a different rant.
so with a rapidly growing fandom, a show ripe for analysis, and the art of media literacy bleeding out on the ground in front of us, the hellscape of the fandom post-season 4 in 2022 followed as such:
august 2022
jo/kendra gate where two extremely popular analysts were called out for "sexualizing" byler while being adults (early to mid 20s). they were dogpiled and harassed because one of them said that will was giving mike "bedroom eyes" (he was) and one of them said mike was checking will out (he was):
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pyshiie and moogate. the proship side of byler twitter rose up and started to divide itself. i'll credit my own joining-the-dark-side to pyshiie and moo, formerly barbjeanisms, who were two popular artists called out respectively for sexualizing byler and generally being proship. similarly, people were called out and criticized for even following or interacting with those accounts after this discourse.
september 2022
hosegate is the most famous across the byler fandom, and it's when some users proposed that the scene in the pizzeria uses phallic imagery to imply mike turns will on (or vice versa) and a lot of people thought that was too sexualized, it caused a divide, and more fanpolicing, etc.
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october 2022
the artist noodlesandtea was harassed for having liked arguably nsfw bakudeku art (they were shirtless, it wasn't explicit) on the same account where they draw characters who are minors. they also drew byler kissing, which was a problem for some? anyone who defended them was also called a pedo, naturally. noodles also got called out for having drawn fanart of the popular e-rated fanfiction....
the unmarked mixtape. a massively popular sequel to a massively popular fic, the red envelope. for a long time, those were the most widely recommended byler fics, but it very soon became taboo to even admit to reading them because the sequel has explicit sex and the first has them making out.
sonnet116 gate is another fic that was beloved and then rapidly turned on by byler twitter because it had implied, fade to black sex scenes. it was about them hooking up but had no smut. and even the non explicit idea of that was offensive and pedophilic of anyone who dared read it. around this time, another fic was called out for having will moaning into a kiss, because writing a teenager moaning was also offensive and pedophilic.
i'm told i (jana / troublebyler gate?) may have influenced a lot of people joining twitter for byler smut after writing illicit affairs and some other smutty oneshots in rapid succession, seeing a lot of byler shippers moving to the proship side of the fandom just to discuss and write byler smut. i also hosted a little fandom gossip column on my curiouscat where a lot of folks confessed to reading or writing smut while pretending to be "normal" in the "main" fandom. it basically revealed/implied that a large amount of popular authors, artists, and accounts were secretly pro byler smut, and that many proshippers were "undercover" in the "main" fandom.
the blocklist era. around this time the "main" fandom also created a "st twt safety" account on twitter which was basically targeted harassment and mass reporting of proshippers. the account does warn of some genuine bad actors sending gore images via dms, being racist, etc. but by far, the majority of it was simply calling out proshippers for sexualizing byler, sharing screenshots they thought were "gross," which only resulted in spreading nsfw content to unintended audiences of minors that likely never would have seen the nsfw accounts otherwise.
november 2022
practice kissing gate is where a handful of popular fic writers were criticized for writing practice kissing fics (such as undertow), and in fact, any amount of byler making out, because adults "fantasizing" about teenagers kissing was "gross."
the proship corner of st twitter continued to grow a lot thanks to so many lovely fan creators, all of whom i couldn't possibly list but who have done a lot for the community! but we continued to get bombarded with endless callout posts and block lists and witch hunting. people were unabashedly policing people's following lists and likes on twitter to call people out for engaging with any questionable users or content. (if you search byler twitter now you can still see the wreckage of so many witch hunts.)
onward through 2023
over time things have mostly calmed down, or at least enough of the folks on "opposing sides" of the fandom have mutually blocked each other to survive. this is likely also influenced by the hiatus leaving the fandom to quiet down, the collapse of twitter-turned-x having many users migrate their fandom content elsewhere, and the mass exodus of many people from the fandom for political reasons. if i had to guess, the ramp-up to season 5 will see all new conflict as more "casual" fans return to the fandom. but who's to say.
which brings us to now:
spicybylerpolls gate, wherein the byler tag on tumblr collectively had to reckon with the fact that people want byler to have sex and it doesn't make them creeps to vote in silly polls about it. people criticized the blog for being overly sexualized and pure fantasy versus more "acceptable" analysis, with many making sweeping moralizing statements about anyone who dared interact with the blog.
this has kicked off tumblr's own sort of horny revolution in encouraging folks to be more open on here, whereas previously we were confined to our corner of twitter.
so in summary:
people over and over again put fan creators on a pedestal just to turn on them when they're "betrayed" when a person's views did not one-to-one line up to theirs.
teens in the fandom especially were "betrayed" by adults in the fandom they thought were "safe" (and i would argue that self proclaimed "safe" adults in fandom are far more dangerous to real life minors than the proship fans who sexualize fictional characters but dont interact with real teens)
most everything has been fueled by widespread ageism at any fan over the age of 18, widespread homophobia and puritanism in regards to exploring queer sexuality or discussing sex at all
so much hate has been over what are essentially "thought crimes", with people watering down serious accusations like pedophilia into a petty insult over disagreements on fiction
and the cycle repeats itself endlessly until things devolve back into witch hunting and policing peoples following and likes etc
the best part to me is that every single cancellation just resulted in more people flooding to the horny side of the fandom to post more freely and without shame. every time a person on twitter posted screenshots of my account to say how "gross" it was (while simultaneously exposing my 18+ nsfw content to their audience of minors) i had a surge in followers. the more the fandom squeezes, the more people slip from its hold.
but that doesn't make the harassment campaigns okay, and it doesn't mean the fandom didn't do massive amounts of harm to real people in an attempt to protect fictional characters.
my hope going forward is that the fandom can coexist as a community where people don't have to like or agree with certain content to treat the people who create it with respect and dignity. and i hope that, while this side of the fandom might grow more on tumblr, we don't have to relive the same old discourses and go through the same cycles we went through on twitter.
and remember kids, the block button is both free and fun.
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wisehearts · 1 month
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Have seen many people point out his arms and wow. This is our current mike wheeler, we're so blessed??? good for him and good luck to will byers when mike takes his sweater off
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birbsauce · 2 months
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WILL BYERS WOULD TOP THE SHIT OUT OF THAT TWINK MIKE WHEELER AND IM TIRED OF YOU LIARS DENYING THAT
Will is at least a twunk and at most looks like Fred specifically from 2012 Mystery Inc.
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l393ndjean · 2 months
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Can I just say, as a literal ASPEC TEENAGER, some of Y'all have been fucking ridiculous about the discourse over byler having sex. Ever heard the phrase don't like don't read? As long as it isn't real people, I'm afraid that you shouldn't comment on it. Some of Y'all have either never spoken to a teenager or have never been in another fandom before and it shows 💀
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longtallglasses · 25 days
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it’s very interesting to me amongst the different fandoms i’ve been a part of in regards to their attitudes toward nsfw fanworks bc with the marauders those teens are always wildin’ - smoking, drinking, sleeping together - if they’re not i would even say it would be out of character for them? wolfstar is messy and horny and so in love, even if in a lot of fics they won’t admit it to each other. in atyd everyone is shagging up a storm, the girls, the boys, it’s still juvenile of course the way they discuss it and go about it. very little communication, feelings are hurt, they don’t know what they’re doing all the time. and it makes sense, they’re teenagers!
i have never once heard of discussion around it being ‘wrong’ to write them this way. that it’s ‘objectifying’ and if you’re thinking about it you must be weird or unnecessarily sexualizing characters. sexualizing characters? they’re already sexualized wdym? they have a sexuality, everyone has a sexuality, whatever the author/artist wants to give them, whether that’s a sex crazed maniac or the most sex repulsed asexual, they Have a Sexuality! even before the exact moment they turn 18, they have a sexuality. it’s just another facet to explore character through, to understand them more fully, and also sometimes for the author to help understand themselves.
i’m sorry age doesn’t matter when it comes to fictional characters. it just doesn’t. they’re not real you can’t hurt them. if someone wants to write through trauma, something ‘wrong’ and ‘problematic’ let them use fictional people. it may seem gross and you don’t have to read it, but its existence does not mean promotion of harmful behavior. it can mean so many different things to that author but it doesn’t equate to that.
i say this bc i myself have written some horrid things. i’ve never posted them, was not in a place where i wanted to, i wrote it all in a period of my life where i was seriously hurting, and writing fucked up horrific things stopped me from hurting Myself. i’ve read some ‘problematic’ fics that made me feel better, hurt me in a good way, reading comments of people who related and appreciated what was being explored.
most people who write about fucked up shit, SA, or some form of trauma porn or whatever it is have probably gone through something similar in their life. the people who read it and seek it out are usually drawn to it for a reason but we don’t need to know why. there is also just curiosity. and being curious doesn’t make you a bad person, it doesn’t mean you ‘like’ it. you may like the power dynamics at play, you may be intrigued by desires different than your own, you may… ANYTHING what you enjoy to read or write speaks to nothing regarding who you are in your day to day life. your morals, your beliefs, or what you want sexually or otherwise. i say this to a younger me, there’s nothing wrong with you!
with all that being said… there is also porn that is just porn. and that’s perfectly fine and good too. people have always written porn about whatever and whoever they want and they always will. if you don’t want it, scroll pass. you won’t be given a gold star for announcing you think it’s gross or wrong, you just look silly. i’m not saying that you must like it too, but attacking the moral character of those who do partake, shows an immaturity and lack of tack when it comes to these subjects. go out in the world and you will discover just how ‘abnormal’ and ‘depraved’ sexual desire can manifest itself as.
as someone who grew up a Very sexually confused person. not knowing i was queer or on the ace spectrum exploring sexuality through fiction was like my saving grace. and those books and those fics that made me feel seen, made me go huh! woah! ooooh my god that’s me! or made me go … wait why do i kinda like that? more often than not they were written by adults. bc they had made it through to the other side so to speak. and as An Adult now i find the traditional adolescent experience very intriguing as i did not have that growing up. the sexual experiences i’ve had now have shown me so starkly that that feeling which accompanies a new experience never really goes away. people are fumbling well into their 20s and 30s. reading the plight of a young person discovering who they are sexually i don’t think will ever not be relatable or make someone reflect. that includes the sweet and innocent as well as the ‘gross’/depraved horniness. it is not necessarily enjoyed on a basis of attraction to these characters, it is enjoyed on a basis of ‘i know this feeling’ or ‘i also do and have yearned for this kind of intimacy’. and if who you are isn’t represented in those stories, oh well damn, looks like i have to write it now. that’s how we have Are you there God, it’s me Margaret and the edge of 17 (the ‘98 and ‘16 iterations), all these stories written by Adults! that make us all sigh in relief and laugh and cry and aaahhh
fiction is fiction, idek what anti-ship means, let people be freaks in peace, fandom spaces are created to have fun in, let’s pls have Fun!!! explore and write and draw and fantasize whatever your heart desires bc there can be no right or wrong, it is just discovery.
if you feel kinship with characters and it feels natural to extend yourself to them, to take them and make them your own, amazing, gorgeous, beautiful. play dress up with them in all the ways you can, do whatever You Want!!
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whatsupmtv · 1 month
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god i wish i wasn’t so riled up about this but! (and i know it’s been beaten into the ground but sorry gotta vent)
why are so many people into byler think “sex 🙅 no bad ❌”
that sexualizing fictional characters is like this sin? and i’m saying even IF they are still teenagers like 15-18 like that’s a normal time to explore sexually and again they are FICTIONAL. i get not wanting to reduce characters down to these basic primitive actions they are more than that but also
something that is sexual or can be interpreted as sexual doesn’t erase all meaning from an interaction or who the characters are. i read a certain artists post and it’s like if people see their art and pick up sexual tones it somehow downplays the softness and the tenderness the characters feel for each other. that all of a sudden it’s A Weird Moment. sex doesn’t make relations dirty or somehow lacking in love. (i totally respect their desire to curate how they talk about their own art but the implications that someone could view it differently are weird is well, Weird!)
aaaahhhhh. sex isn’t dirty or weird! even among teenagers!! and picking up on sexual tension, exploring sex through fiction isn’t a weird thing to do!!! idk what this is just needed to ramble! aahhhhh
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pluralbyler · 21 days
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unnamed byler fic
and if i said i was trying something?
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id-rather-be-home · 1 month
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we're in the homestretch! chapter 10 will 10000% be uploaded by tonight!!
i'm about 85% done with it as of now and inspiration has hit me like a freight train so it won't take any time to finish it up once i'm done with classes and get off work this evening
thanks to everyone who's been patiently waiting for my slow ass to get this chapter done lmao
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the-biggest-homo · 14 days
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GUYS HELP MY BOYFRIEND JUST BROKE UP WITH ME AND IM HEAVILY CAFFEINATED PLEASE GOVE ME SAD BYLER FIC RECS SO I CAN SOB IN PEACE
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spicybylerpolls · 2 days
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Here me out, I am not against a byler sex scene cause I don’t think it would be anything remotely explicit anyways so discussing it in depth for me feels pointless, but I have issues with tying a sex scene into the character arcs of mike and will as if it’s the only logical way to wrap up their story, only because had there not been a pandemic and multiple delays, byler would have happened while at least one of them was still a MINOR (maybe both I would have to do the math) and there’s no way the show woulda had a sex scene in those circumstances so it’s more likely to me that having a sex scene—while it would be interesting to go there now that the actors are older—it is not the end all be all for their character arcs and not something that *has* to happen for their end narrative to make sense, since it probably was not going to happen in the first place. So maybe let’s reframe the discussion away from “they have to bone or else all the build up and such makes no sense it’s the only way to end things because blah blah blah” and more as it would be fun/cool/hot to see something more adult now that they ARE actual adults, and it would feel satisfying to their story, but that’s it. cause some people are starting to feel so passionate about the idea that i am concerned they are going to make themselves very angry if there isn’t one …
Hmm, I kinda see your point, but I also feel like there's no real point in speculating about what might have happened in the hypothetical past where the pandemic and the strikes didn't happen because A) we don't live in that timeline lol, and B) the Duffers have always had the ending in the show in mind from the jump and many/most of the beats they knew they needed to hit along the way, BUT I personally don't think they've planned out literally every single detail from the start with no wiggle room.
The writers have said as much, like for example when they tweeted all the crazy things that were supposed to happen in season 2 like possessed Will killing Bob or El mercy killing her mom. They've definitely added and subtracted some things along the way.
Beyond that, regardless of the ages of Finn and Noah, it's not outlandish to argue that sex is still thematically connected to the characters and their arcs. Byler is a story about sexuality, of which sexual attraction and, well, sex play a huge role.
And ST is a coming-of-age show, of which sex often plays a huge role regardless of the age of the actors. During S3, the writers didn't shy away from including sexual themes such as Max's happy screams comment, and the actors were still minors then. Every season has progressed these themes further. The writers and filmmakers are the ones putting the sexual symbolism and jokes into the story, and we're just picking up what they're putting down, right?
Like, I don't think Murray using the phrase "experiment sexually" was accidental, nor was hosegate, nor was Mike checking out Will's ass lol. It's all fair game when you're telling this kind of story (as long as you're creating a safe and comfortable set, of course). Because of this, IMO, there's a high chance the ST writers would've still at least implied that Byler had sex even in your hypothetical scenario. There actually isn't a hard-and-fast rule that prevents actors who aren't legal adults yet from acting out light, non-explicit sex scenes.
You say that, "byler would have happened while at least one of them was still a MINOR (maybe both I would have to do the math) and there’s no way the show woulda had a sex scene in those circumstances," and I understand why you'd say this, but if you look closer at films and shows in media history, that's not always true. I can name several shows and films that call this theory into question.
While it's true that most modern shows with teen sex scenes do tend to also have adults already playing teenagers- there's a whole page on TV Tropes about this phenomenon called Dawson Casting- (and these tend to show a lot of skin, i.e. Euphoria), which makes it easier to explore sexual storylines, that's not the case across the board.
In your hypothetical scenario, the Byler sex scene obviously wouldn't have been an explicit one (and no one's saying it will absolutely be that way now either), but that doesn't really mean it wouldn't have existed in some form. There are many examples of coming-of-age shows/movies where the actors were technically still underage at the time of filming, and it showed them making out intensely before cutting out (and sex was implied) or it showed something slightly more (closer to Stancy) but still not anywhere near HBO-level.
McLovin's sex scene in Superbad comes to mind (his actor was still 17 at the time, and his mother had to watch while it was being filmed). Thora Birch was 16 when American Beauty was filmed. More recently, there was the Jevon sex scene in Chucky this season. Devon's actor recently turned 18, but Jake's actor is still 17. And yet the season was non-subtly building up to the scene, it was 100% tastefully done, and it cut away before anything super specific happened.
Now that both Finn and Noah ARE adults, and we know there will definitely be a time jump, this hypothetical is extra meaningless. And if the Duffers want to go further and bolder with a Byler sex scene, they can, even if this wasn't the original plan. And there's lots of brilliant analysis that argues the Duffers have been planting the seeds for a while for at least some kind of sexual resolution.
But your assertion that, "some people are starting to feel so passionate about the idea that i am concerned they are going to make themselves very angry if there isn’t one" doesn't seem based in reality either. Spicy bylers might want a sex scene, and many might believe there at least will be something implied like Jancy, but I don't think anyone will actually be angry if there isn't one. Correct me if I'm wrong? I think most people are just happy there's a space to talk about Byler in unfiltered ways, to analyze the mature themes of the show, and also to have fun while doing so, especially since the season is still a ways away. It's not like people will actually fist fight the Duffers if Mike isn't moaning and giving Will backshots in S5 💀.
What do y'all think?
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problematicbyler · 3 months
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re: spicy byler (and @spicybylerpolls) and the vibe of "it's okay when people are talking about sex in theory but it's not okay when people are clearly sexualizing / fantasizing"
well, lets get this out of the way: i actually think it's okay to sexualize and fantasize fictional characters because they are not real. they are not minors because they are not real. they do not have rights, they do not need to be protected from harm, because they are not real.
but whatever, sure, let's go with that statement. we can talk theoretically but not in a fantasizing way. let's draw that line in the sand....
how exactly do you define which depictions and discussions of sex count as sexualized or fantasy? what constitutes fantasy, and for that matter, isn't all fanfiction about fantasy?
how do you determine if someone is discussing sex in an "acceptable" way? is it just vibes? is it you personally feeling uncomfortable? what happens when people inevitably have different perspectives of what crosses the line? who gets the final say in what you're permitted to say before it becomes okay to accuse you of being a pedophile?
this is the problem with any amount of censorship. it will always unravel into more and more censorship. because once you've decided anything is off limits, slowly but surely, everything can be argued to be off limits.
who is being hurt by people thinking about byler smut? who is being hurt by this in a way that can't be resolved by blocking an account or closing a tag?
people love to act like they're open minded and sex positive but as soon as it comes to any amount of sexual fantasy their inner fancop comes in to turn on their little sirens. some people are fully "i only talk about sex in a god-honoring way" and they don't even realize how much fucking koolaid they've been drinking.
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wisehearts · 13 days
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in what position do you think mike cums the fastest? what about will?
OOOHH
For mike, as simple as it is I think early on doggy style really does it for him just because it's such an overwhelmingly horny experience to watch your dick disappear inside your best friend, and with an ass like will's that's rippling on every thrust and flushed red and slick and every gay guy's dream I don't think it takes him long at alllll 💀🤭 HOWEVER I personally love to think he becomes obsessed with will's reactions and seeing his expressions and it really riles him up seeing the effect he has on him, so doggy style just doesn't cut it there (until they get a mirror and he gets the best of both worlds)
will... is harder to pick a position for, for some reason! I immediately wanna say cowgirl because I just truly believe he loves it but I think that's more his favorite than what makes him come fastest.
I think I'm gonna lean towards any position where he feels compressed or weighted, so like mastery or missionary but specifically with his legs over mike's shoulders/lifted up in general. it's like a comfort thing too maybe. having mike stuffing him but also pressed close, or arms locked around him, panting into his ear, eye contact - like if all his senses have mike around him I can see him flying over the edge very quickly :)
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bylersbear01 · 3 months
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Between will and mike who do you think is the top and who is the bottom? Who do you think dom or sub?
Mike is a top and Will is bottom. But I think Will is a dom and Mike is a sub.
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sunflowerbyler · 20 days
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Where are the Mike birthday fics!!! Need will giving him the best present of all…himself!
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longtallglasses · 3 days
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was already planning on writing a mike fic about the build up to the airport scene cus of this post and then ttpd came out and guilty as sin? possessed me to start this - so here’s the beginning of that 🤮
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