#what is actually happening is that they are trying to make rhaenyra into the ultimate victim

[bohemian-nights]

one of the things that frustrated me the most about Hotd S1 is how dumbnyra is passed off as "soulmates/one true love" while messing with their other relationships, which I don't know if it's intentional, but it seems to repeat the pattern, and I think that was...lazy. criston and mysaria are the people they have sex with on screen, but "end" in bitter terms (coincidence that criston is a POC and Mysaria played by an asian woman? Hmm) harwin and laena are they long-time lover/wife they flirt in episode 5 and they are together for exactly 10 years (judging by the age of the children, conception probably synchronized🥴) and as if that weren't enough, they both die by fire. the only break in this pattern would be Netty, but now I'm afraid they'll ruin that in dumbnyra's favor by giving netty's agency to rhaenyra and daemon's as well, since he's looking more like Rhaenyra's watchdog than the rogue prince that we know, seriously, his peak in the first season was the fight on stepstones

The show is racist(yeah the way they approached Mysaria and Criston was messed up especially in Mysaria’s case since they took away elements of her story and made her speak in that atrocious accent, but it’s not my culture so I’m not really going to speak on it) and especially anti-Black as hell(which I will speak on especially since they seem to have a problem specifically with Black women; see how they screwed over Laena at every turn by turning her into an unloved unwanted woman the moment they race bent her, and the fandom literally celebrated it because they are anti-Black too), but they passed off Dumbnyra as soulmates?🥴

I have a hard time believing this when Daemon literally choked Rhaenyra out in the finale(which isn’t book canon which means they chose to write this and put it in there when they didn’t have to). Mind you this happened after she just gave birth to lizard and she just lost her father. He also keeps abandoning her every five seconds, and though they screwed over his relationship with Laena they actually wound up cutting down Dumbnyra’s time together(and he was shown to be softer with Laena ironically; yes the bar is in hell, but its something 🤷🏽‍♀️).

Plus older!Rhaenyra and Daemon have exactly 0 chemistry which does matter since a major component of romance is yah know chemistry (which is another reason why their fans are always whining, over-compensating, backtracking after they said Rhaenyra would change Daemon so now they say that they love toxicity, and obsessing over Laena and Nettles even though they are “irrelevant and meant nothing” to Daemon🙃).

If that’s them turning Dumbnyra into soulmates I’d like to see what they would do to show that Daemon doesn’t give a rats a** about Rhaenyra🤣 What have him return from the Battle Above the Gods Eye and un-alive her himself🤣(lol Dumbnyra stans would still find someway to turn it into a win).

With Nettles I’ll remain cautiously optimistic cause if they screw her over it is misogynoir and the second Black love interest they screwed over due to their own biases(and the show would need to be called out and threatened with a boycott for that), but it won’t be because of them making Dumbnyra into soulmates.*

*At least this isn’t the way I’d write soulmates(hell one of my other OTPs, Olitz, had major problems, but even at their most toxic, Fitz never choked out Olivia. Shonda knew not to do that). So if this is the writer's attempt at doing that then they truly are certifiably insane in addition to being racist c*nts.

#soulmates 🤣🤣🤣 #this is how you write a abusive relationship #which is what Dumbnyra is #hotd #house of the dragon #nettles #daemon targaryen #daemon x nettles #no offense but dumbnyra fans really have people duped #what is actually happening is that they are trying to make rhaenyra into the ultimate victim #they are throwing daemon under the bus to do it #this ain’t a love story kids 🤷🏽‍♀️ #I’m not mad about it provided they show that daemon does care for someone #and that someone is nettles #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti daemyra #bnask #bnasks #poor laena though #she really got screwed over #off topic but they could've given mysaria a tacky blonde wig like the rest

[linberlyy]

Also team Black actors share the same misconception and misunderstanding that many team black fans do that there is no love or loyalty within Team Green, when most of Rhaenyra’s team abandoned her in the end and they don’t even like and trust one another as it is currently. They aren’t supporting Rhaenyra because they believe in her. Theyre all supporting her because the position they’re in, there is no other choice or they personally want something- Daemon to be King, for his blood to eventually sit the Iron throne. Corlys, very much the same reason. He wants his name attached to a King. Rhaenys while throwing this accusation at Alicent, follows her husband’s lead far more than Alicent followed Viserys. Plus their Granddaughters are Daemon’s daughters and are now betrothed to Rhaenyra’s sons. They weren’t even betrothed because Rhaenyra considered them great candidates for her sons, but because she needs to use their legitimacy to bolster her own sons. She tried it with Helaena. Not to mention, Rhaena has lost her claim to Driftmark with the death of Luke, the deal with Rhaenys/Corlys was so weak and fickle that it broke within 3-4 days. Corlys distrusts and resents Rhaenyra more after Rhaenys dies fighting for her. Rhaenyra eventually calls for the heads of her most innocent and loyal supporters and one by one they abandon her too.

While team Green, despite their dysfunction were loyal to each other to the very end. Everything that Alicent has done since she was a teenager has been out of fear for and for the safety of her children. She is their only parent, their only source of attention, affection and discipline. She tells Aegon that he’s no son of hers, then 48 hours later- as futile as it is, she stands in front of a Dragon to protect him, he tries to pull her back with him and she removes his hand to push him further behind her but then there’s an understanding that they’re going to die together. Aegon doesn’t want it but he takes the throne anyway because he understands that his rulership will be the only thing that protects the people he loves. In the trailer you can see that the murder of Jaehaerys not only destroys Helaena but Alicent too. It also forces Aegon to mature, take more of a leadership role and actually fight to show that he’s “as fearsome as any of them”. Aemond talks shit about Aemond and wishes he was the firstborn son but ultimately he fights for Aegon until his dying day. Alicole are meant to contrast Daemyra with many seeing Daemyra as superior but Daemon has put his hands on Rhaenyra. Grows angry and resentful of her, takes a new little girl as lover, abandons Rhaenyra and doesn’t answer her call to be beside her when she needs him the most. While Criston is killed trying to make his way back to Kingslanding to save Alicent and Helaena. Daeron also dies trying to make his way back to KL to liberate his mother and sister. Otto isn’t shit, but even after being removed as hand, he stays loyal to Aegon. Aegon wanted to build giant statues of his brothers in their memory. He has it written into Law that Alicent and Helaena were the only Queens during the dance era, a law that still stands in Westeros and one Rhaenyra’s sons and other direct descendants didn’t bother to change. He marries his daughter to Aegon III to ensure that she’s Queen after he dies and she is known to history as Queen Jaehaera Targaryen even if it was brief.

If this isn’t love and loyalty, then I don’t know what is. There were no defectors on Team Green.

Even the commoners stayed loyal. Part of the reason they revolt against Rhaenyra and storm the Dragonpit is because of what happened to Helaena’s boys and Helaena herself and because of Brothel Queens even if it’s not clear whether it was a rumor or true. The people still loved Helaena and Alicent. While on Dragonstone, where Rhaenyra ruled for years. A broken and Dragonless (at first) Aegon goes and turns these people against Rhaenyra.

The phrase said by actress Raena about the fact that there is no love in the green family sounds quite comical. Because the character she plays received absolutely no love from, for example, Daemon. Yes, there were some scenes in the cut script where Daemon hugged his daughters after Laena died, but we're looking at the final script and that wasn't there. In the same episode, Raena complains to her mom that Daemon doesn't pay attention to her because she doesn't have a dragon, and in the next episode, Daemon marries Rhaenyra shortly after Laena's funeral. And the children were clearly not happy (and tb stans, please don’t make me think that they were simply frozen then. Their faces really showed a lack of understanding of what was happening). And the actress calls it love? Seriously? Is there love in the black family? Show it to me.

Now I'll be interested to see how Corlys reacts to his wife's death and whether he will tell Rhaenyra that it was her fault. Just wondering. Or will he stick his tongue up his ass again and say nothing? Will support the black team for no reason simply BECAUSE?

(no hate towards the actors) but most of them say real nonsense, their arguments are like “tb are good, tg are evil, there’s no need to choose, our family loves each other and hates them.” This is so funny. Okay, let the tbs kiss their ass, this video was edited for them.

#hotd #anti team black #houseofthedragon #pro team green #team green #the greens #corlys velaryon #rhaena targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #anti rhaenyra targaryen #aegon ii targaryen #alicent hightower #otto hightower #aemond targaryen #criston cole

[alicenttully]

So, this idea that the maester conspiracy is a real thing due to Targaryen women/Targaryen babes dying in childbirth is actually so funny to me.

So, we have Alyssa, Rhaella, Naerys, and Daella Targaryen. The Velaryons also factor in because they're the "blood of old Valyria" as well, so we have Laena and Alyssa Velaryon. Finally, we have Aemma Arryn whose mother was a Targaryen princess.

You know what maesters have advised against doing? Girls being married off too young because of the higher risk of dying in childbed. You know who did it anyway? Targaryen men like Jaehaerys and Viserys. Jaehaerys married off Daella to Rodrik Arryn when she was sixteen even though it would have been much better for her to wait and guess what she ends up dying giving birth to Aemma. Furthermore, it's thought that because Viserys consumated his marriage with Aemma too soon that contributed to her fertility struggles. Similarly, Rhaella being only fourteen when she gave birth to Rhaegar (in a marriage that her father Jaehaerys II pushed for) would lead to years of the same issues.

When it comes to Naerys, she was similar to Elia Martell in that she never enjoyed good health. The childbed was always going to be more dangerous for her because of that. Naerys was lucky and she conceived Daeron II early in her marriage. Not only did the maesters help Naerys successfully deliver a healthy son, but they also recognised that getting pregnant again could potentially kill Naerys and they warned her. You know who didn't care? Aegon IV.

Concerning Laena Velayron, she was in her twenties and fairly healthy. However, she died but not before giving birth to a twisted and deformed son who did not survive. The Targaryens have a history of these births- Maegor I, Rhaenyra, and later Daenerys. Somehow I don't think it's on the maesters.

When it comes to Alyssa Velayron, it was basically a matter of just because she could still conceive at age 48 doesn't mean pregnancy was a good idea. Not to mention the fact that Alyssa had given birth to Boremund two years before and never recovered from it. Who got her pregnant again anyway? Rogar. Of course it's arguable that Rogar didn't think it would happen again which fair enough, but still- he could have gotten her access to moon tea which again the maesters could help with. But nope.

Finally concerning her namesake Alyssa Targaryen, it was a matter of the birth being difficult for her and her never fully recovering. The son she gave birth to would not survive her long. This is not unique, there are plenty of other women in Westeros who die due to these issues. Ultimately, it doesn't make sense because like Alyssa had already given birth to two healthy sons- Viserys and Daemon. If the maesters really were trying to knock off Targaryen women this way, then why wait until Alyssa is pregnant for the third time?

Tldr: Y'all need to stop demonising maesters lol

#asoiaf #a song ice and fire #anti viserys i targaryen #anti jaehaerys i targaryen #aemma arryn #laena velaryon #house of the dragon #hotd

[darklinaforever]

Emma D'Arcy's words about Daemyra and Daemon :

"Daemon is a deeply problematic character. Seeing Rhaenyra being seduced and manipulated as a child by her uncle confirms this, and prevents the public from blinding the public to the problematic nature of their relationship." - Emma D'arcy .

So Emma… I love you as an actor but a few things to point out.

Daemon is a gray character. People need to stop trying to turn him into a villain, or at least amplify his dark side. I'm not saying Daemon isn't a problematic character. There are aspects of it, yes. Obviously, since he's a gray character. But generally the members of the series tend to associate these problematic aspects with things that don't have to be. As does (as Emma D'arcy said so well) that apparently Daemon seduced/groom a child Rhaenyra.

So, you should know that large age differences are common in feudal times and in the world of ASOIAF. Literally, Daemyra is no exception in this. In fact, it even seems to me that they are among the couples with the least age difference in Martin's universe. In the book, when Rhaenyra is a child, Daemon seems to love her in a classic family mode. Nothing indicates anything to move in their relationship. When she is 7/8 years old Daemon is exiled by Viserys and he does not return to Kings Landing until Rhaenyra is 14 years old, without having had any contact with her before or in recent years. Here, by Westeros standards, Rhaenyra is actually a marriage-ready adult, likely already being courted by men far older than Daemon. So that Daemyra had an affair in the 6 months following Daemon's return is nothing shocking or fundamentally problematic (especially when he's not even sure they slept together) Unless you trust Mushroom's version of course. But, it's well known, trusting Mushroom is universal bullshit. The age difference in this universe inspired by feudal times, not to mention the fact of getting married young, is literally the norm. If you accuse Daemon of being problematic in attempting to seduce/woo/marry a 14 year old Rhaenyra, or worse, being a pedophile (what is particularly ridiculous), well know that you are accusing almost all the men and women of this universe and time of being, when in the end it's just about different mores. In this scenario, Daemon is not an attacker. He is simply one of the men trying to woo Rhaenyra. Not to mention the fact that he didn't see her grow up at all due to her exile, which makes the whole thing even less problematic than it might seem to a modern audience. Yes, Daemon knew Rhaenyra as a child, but he didn't see her grow up, that's the nuance. George made sure this didn't happen. He did not see her go from a child to a young woman, because yes, I remind you, adolescence in this context does not exist, there is only childhood and adulthood.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a man who actually saw Rhaenyra grow up in the book, who was extremely and actively close to her throughout this evolution, and finally tried his luck with her once she was older, like 16 years old, and who is suspected (as Alicent did for example, when she hated Rhaenyra) of having had harmful intentions towards her, especially from the age of 13… Which obviously sounds like something particularly creepy… Well you have Ser Criston Cole, knight and protector of Rhaenyra ! So placed in a position of trust in relation to her when she was 7/8 years old. Not to mention that Rhaenyra was apparently under the spell of Criston Cole from that age and that's why she wanted him as her personal knight. Obviously, this aspect of the character of Criston Cole has been completely evacuated in the series with the changes of age. But if you're looking for a man in the book who might fit into the “grooming” category or at least come close to it in his relationship with Rhaenyra, well it's actually Criston Cole. Not Daemon.

And even if Daemon would have seen Rhaenyra grow up, as is ultimately the case in the series, remember that the two are part of an incestuous family. Thus, that they end up getting married does not necessarily mean that Daemon would have tried to seduce Rhaenyra as a child. This idea is based on literally nothing. Moreover, absolutely nothing indicates in the series, contrary to what Emma D'arcy says, that Daemon tried to seduce and manipulate Rhaenyra when she was a child / that he had harmful intentions towards her in this time there. At most, he just seems to have unconscious feelings for her in the first episode when she is apparently 14 years old according to Rhaenyra's words in episode 10… Except that in episode 2, 6 months older late after episode 1, Viserys says that Rhaenyra is 16 years old… Yeah the directors and writers weren't very well done chronologically I think. Anyway, officially Rhaenyra is 19 years old in episode 4 ! You know, the age at which Daemon tries to seduce her in the series…

Tell me Emma, I didn't know that 19 was still being a child, you're teaching me a great thing there ! You too have messed up on the level of the sea chronology… ?

Rhaenyra was an adult at the time, whether by the laws of Westeros, or ours. She also consciously wanted to fuck with her uncle in this episode, no doubt, and has done so probably even since episode 1. However, Daemon didn't do anything in particular to seduce her until this episode 4. Mysaria was literally his mistress in the first 2 episodes. And no, Daemon offering Rhaenyra a necklace is not evidence of grooming. According to the book, Daemon has been showering Rhaenyra with gifts since she was little, it's just a habit he's picked up with her. And no, it wasn't creepy or sexual ! In the first episode, as I said, Daemon seemed to harbor unconscious or repressed feelings towards Rhaenyra without actually engaging in any type of seduction with her. Then he seems to realize his interest in her in episode 2 when she challenges him, and he has feelings for her in episode 4. It's as simple as that.

Also, we can't be certain that Daemon was actively shoved into Rhaenyra's paws during her youth/childhood either in the series. At the start of episode 1, Rhaenyra tells Daemon that it's literally been an eternity since he's been seen in court, and from what has been shown of Daemon's character, that he doesn't really seem to fit in with the nobles and his opinion that the court just happens to be deadly boring, well that would ultimately indicate that he spends very little time there, and therefore Rhaenyra wouldn't have not the pleasure of his company that often. I mean, he's not called, "Prince of the City" for nothing. Without forgetting the 3 years when Daemon goes to war in the Stepstones. A little crappy for someone trying to groom Rhaenyra…

Not to mention no, the situation between Daemyra in episode 4 is not grooming. It's a form of seduction and manipulation to some degree, yes, but not grooming. Already, because it's an event that happens over the course of an evening, and grooming is a fairly precise process that generally takes time, but also and above all, because Rhaenyra is not a child, not even a teenager, she is an adult, whether again by Westeros standards or ours. In addition, besides the fact that Daemon does not manage to go to the end negatively speaking with Rhaenyra, due to obvious guilt and realization of feelings, well he is not doing a fundamentally bad act in itself, he is to nuanced, as the actions of a gray character should be instead of demonized. In this episode, thanks to Daemon, Rhaenyra learns and sees what sexual pleasure can be, that she can find joy and independence in it. Not simply to be cloistered in the “duty” that is marriage, and that despite that she can always take what she really wants. So something positive in itself, and who served her.

You really need to stop with all that Daemon bullshit trying to seduce/groom a child Rhaenyra, because it's literally based on nothing. Actors and directors should really shut up when they talk about the show. Especially since once again, they seem to forget that the age difference is a common thing in this universe. For exemple, Rhaenys and Corlys in the show are promoted as a good couple as Rhaenys was 16 and Corlys 37 when they got married according to the book. Strangely, here the age difference has never challenged or disturbed anyone. It's hypocrisy to point out the age difference specifically between Daemyra as problematic (worse, not to quote, to see outright voluntarily erase the other age differences between couples judged/shown as "good", while the difference is worse than Daemyra for precisely putting a negative emphasis especially on them for x reasons) when in the book and Martin's universe in general, well, they don't particularly stand out for that, and that there are even worse than them. And no one seems to see these relationships as problematic because of these age differences, which shows the obvious bias of some against Daemyra… Not to mention that I love how much the directors and actors (except Matt Smith, because he has a working brain) love to recall the problematic aspects around Daemyra, to the point of forgetting that they are telling a story in a feudal fantasy universe, but besides never touching on Alicent's deeply toxic relationship and Rhaenyra, talking only about the tragedy that separates them and the love they still seem to have despite all the crap (which I won't name, because others have done it much better than I can't do it, and I'm too lazy) that Alicent put Rhaenyra through. But I guess that's it when the show is partly written by idiots… ?

That's all I had to say on the subject. Please feel free to share your opinion respectfully. Cheers !

#house of the dragon #daemon x rhaenyra #daemyra #rhaenyra targaryen #daemon targaryen #rhaenyra x daemon #daemon and rhaenyra #house targaryen #rhaenyra and daemon #house of targaryen #anti greens #anti greens stans #anti team greens #team blacks #team black #daenyra #emma d'arcy

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

What makes you interested in book!Aegon? (didn't read the books)

Thank you for asking this anon!

There is a LOT I could say about book!Aegon. To start, I think if you haven't read F&B it's kind of hard to understand that even moreso than with ASOIAF, there are almost no "good" characters unless you count people who are the completely innocent victims of other characters' actions, so choosing a character to like isn't really some moral or ethical issue the way a lot of show fans seem to make it out to be. In the actual historical Anarchy, I 100% think Matilda was done dirty and should have been queen. She was usurped by one of her cousins, not a brother, a guy who wasn't even the oldest male of his family, and beyond being her father's choice, her legal claim was stronger and she was a pretty impressive woman in her own right. But Rhaenyra is no Matilda, and F&B as a whole just doesn't have any Brienne of Tarths, or even Robb Starks. Hell, it's even pretty low on Jaime Lannisters. The most social-justice minded character is a five year old bastard and his lesbian sex-worker mothers who try to put him on the throne. You have characters who do one good or heroic thing like Addam Velaryon, and characters who are blandly inoffensive, like Jacaerys, but they are not really compelling dynamic characters either. You also have a lot of really loathsome assholes. Book!Aemond, for instance, doesn't even have the childhood bullying backstory to soften him, he's just violent, and often a liability. Aegon is one of the very few characters who actually has a dynamic character arc and a few redeeming qualities. He changes over the course of the story, shows a lot of resilience and tenacity, and ultimately, what happens to him is tragic. (This is long, I'm sorry. I'm incapable of being concise on this topic and I honestly could have said even more. Also, book spoilers ahead, obiously).

Just to get it out of the way, the show did Aegon pretty dirty in adapting Mushroom's accounts about the "guttersnipes" selectively. Mushroom talks a LOT of shit, and the stuff he says about Rhaenyra is almost more abhorrent than the stuff he says about Aegon, and he was actually on her side. Is Aegon a good, decent, honorable guy? Not really. Aegon is written as a hedonist. He's a drinker, he's gluttonous, and he sleeps around. The more neutral non-Mushroom sources say that Aegon was handsy with the maids (not great, to be clear), and we know he has a couple of bastards and likely at least one paramour, but there's no really credible suggestion that book!Aegon is some serial rapist. Is it plausible that he could have been? Sure. I'll give the haters that, it's not a huge stretch to say a guy who was handsy with the maids might have taken other liberties, but I'll also say this: George does not have a problem outright stating that someone is a rapist or an abuser when that is his intent, even characters he likes (hell, book!Tyrion is explicitly written as a rapist and George loves him), but he did not have anyone but Mushroom say anything like this about Aegon. But Aegon's got a lot of vices, and they start pretty young. If we look at other Targaryens, drinking problems are pretty rampant. Aegon is also called "sullen," and "pouty" but Aegon is in a unique position. He's the eldest son, but his father chose his elder sister as heir, and this is pretty unheard of in this world, an eldest son who gets second son treatment. And unlike other second sons, like, say, Daemon, he doesn't even have an advantageous marriage arranged for him. Daemon might not have liked Rhea or wanted that marriage, but the point of it was to give Daemon holdings of his own and lands he could inherit so that he would not always be beholden to whomever sat the throne. There is just zero provision made for Aegon or his siblings' futures. Instead, Viserys (not Alicent) marries Aegon to his sister, sealing both Aegon and Helaena's fates. It means that when Rhaenyra becomes queen, he and Helaena will be entirely at her mercy, and will basically have to be charity cases, dependent on her continued willingness to support a brother that she hates, who poses a considerable threat to her rule, and his family of dragonriders, all of whom are legitimate unlike her older sons. And book!Rhaenyra is not a great person, the show softens her considerably (I won't get into Rhaenyra in this post because it's not about her, but I have Rhaenyra thoughts too), so there's really no indication that she'd do this. But, in spite of all this, Aegon is not particularly keen to take the throne. He does it because he becomes convinced his family's safety depends on it (and in my opinion, this is true, except taking the throne also, ironically, dooms them. This is a no-win situation for Aegon and his siblings).

Aegon is a reluctant king who is young and inexperienced and he makes mistakes, but he does his best to step up for the sake of his family. And he suffers greatly as a result. There's this idea that gets thrown around a lot that Aegon didn't care for his family, but there's really no suggestion of that in the book. Was he a hands on, present dad? Was he in love with Helaena? I mean, he's an alcoholic teen dad whose father made him marry his thirteen year old sister at sixteen, but he clearly did love his kids. Aegon is devastated by Blood and Cheese. He has to be stopped from immediately taking off on Sunfyre and storming Dragonstone and is forced to wait while Otto keeps trying to win supporters and make alliances. During this period Aegon "drinking and raging." He's upset. But when Helaena falls into depression and can't take care of Maelor due to the guilt of having chosen him to die, Aegon is the one who notices and puts Maelor into Alicent's care. And Otto's lack of decisive action after B&C is what leads to him firing Otto and naming Criston as Hand, and then Aegon joins battle himself and winds up horrifically injured as a result. And Aegon battles back from injuries that really should not have been survivable, which leave him in incredible pain. There are points he's begging for death, the pain is that bad, and no one really thinks he'll survive at first, but he does, he fights back, and when King's Landing falls he and his children are spirited away.

Where does that well of strength come from, if he doesn't have anything or anyone worth fighting for? He shows incredible resourcefulness and resilience, rehabilitates himself and his dragon, kicks milk of the poppy, and infiltrates Dragonstone, Rhaenyra's stronghold. And at what should be his moment of triumph, finally taking Dragonstone's keep, he's injured again by Baela, and his dragon, which he worked so hard to rehabilitate, dies after being wounded in that same battle. Aegon will live out the rest of his life disabled and with chronic pain. By the end he has lost nearly his entire family including both his sons, he's ill, he's drinking again, he's disabled, and he's got an entire clownshow of a council at each others' throats and pulling him this way and that, and still he doesn't give up. Then you get a lot of frankly ableist nonsense (again, mostly from Mushroom) about how Aegon was sitting on dragon eggs and watching other people fuck because he couldn't, there's a strong effort there in Gyldayn's narrative to build up his poisoning as being somewhat justified because Aegon was "not a well man," but it's tragic what happens to him.

Finally, and I might catch some slack for saying this, but in a war that is notably devoid mercy, book!Aegon is one of the few characters that shows any, even when he has every reason to be vengeful. Does he spare Rhaenyra? No. But she would not have spared him at that point either. He does spare Aegon III and Baela, some would argue to his own detriment. He spares Gaemon Palehair, and he grants Trystane Trufyre's last request to be knighted before he dies. His more ruthless actions are also relatively justified in the context of Westeros compared to some of the other completely wanton killings that we see from others in the Dance on both sides. Again, is he a great person? No. He's a impetuous young man with a lot of issues who was not raised for the throne, making some questionable decisions but also showing a lot of bravery, resilience, and yes, mercy.

And you know, just to get it out there, I've been accused of being a book purist and of being oh so above it all by anons before, but it's not that I think the book!Dance is really all that great. F&B has its problems too, and I know that if an adaptation were to follow it completely faithfully, it would not be a very good show. But Aegon is one of the more complex and interesting Dance characters, one of the few who is present and active until the end, and it's a pity that a lot of show watchers and wiki readers have written him off because how the show handled Aegon in season one. (tagging @aifsaath on this in case she'd like to share Aegon thoughts!)

#asks #aegon ii targaryen #fire and blood #hotd critical #kinda

[sukibenders]

Ah, but could Laenyra and Daemyra have existed together? I don't think it was Alicent x Rhaenyra that caused the downgrade of Laena's position within the story, I think it was the framing of Daemon x Rhaenyra. What do you think?

I'm screaming because you don't how giddy I am to answer this anon. I've literally been trying to frame a way to state this exact question you asked, but was struggling so thank you! Okay so, in my opinion, Laenyra and Daemyra definitely could have worked side by side and even together in the show. In the books, I believe, it's alluded that they may have been a throuple and many fans already ship them all together (though some do just use this ship as a shoehorn to rush Daemyra without giving Laena her time to shine as well, which is so stupid but this doesn't go for everyone). There are many ways that this could have been a possibility in the show, had the writers and creators cared about Laena and their other black characters. Rhaenicent could have been over, heck even with some old flames between them here and there, but ultimately Laena and Rhaenyra would be together. And there were ways in the show that this could have been possible, but this brings me to your second point.

Rhaenicent is definitely not the reason for, or at least the sole reason (I'll be generous there) for Laenyra not happening, or for Laena's character downgrade and I feel that by, personally, only blaming the second main queer ship present feels like a cop out, especially since Rhaenyra is able to have other relationships within the show (eg. Harwin and even, briefly, Criston). From episode one, the show frames Daemyra as something that is going to happen one way or another (with Rhaenicent still existing in some way so there goes the point of the former making it impossible for another ship to happen), and when they do get together it's this big thing. If there was ever a ship that the show creators run for the most, my first choice would be Daemyra (especially because they give them more time to shine). However, problems arise with the introduction of Laena, and by problems I mean the creators of the show. They frame Daemyra as the ultimate ship so much that it overshines and overshadows Laena in every aspect---from her as a character to her relationship with both Daemon and Rhaenyra to even her children. Rhaenyra and Alicent have been for a decent amount of time, so at the point of the Driftmark episode and Laena's funeral, it makes no sense to blame Rhaenicent for Laena's lack of character when that should fall on Daemyra (at least in show canon). We see her framed as the second choice to Rhaenyra in Daemon's love life, we hardly see him tell her or show her that he actually loves her, we hardly see him spending time with the kids that they have together. Same with Rhaenyra, as we hardly see them talk to one another again, or even about one another except in passing (with Laena it's mainly about mentioning how Rhaenyra had given birth to another son and for Rhaenyra it was just asking Daemon if he loved her [Laena]). And this is so different from the books where, I believe, Rhaenyra flew over to be with Laena during the birth of her children something of which is a big thing for the crowned heir to do. The creators of HOTD failed at Laenyra and even Laena's relationship with Daemon when they framed Daemyra as being the ship that was destined to be and failed to give Laena character development that she deserved.

#laena velaryon #rhaenrya targaryen #daemon targaryen #rhaenicent #laenyra #daemon x laena #daemyra #anti daemyra #(or at least show wise) #house of the dragon #hotd #hotd fandom #anonymous #ask #anon

[visenyaism]

Sorry if this is annoying since I'm replying to an old ask of yours, but I just saw your ask about people comparing the amethyst empress/bloodstone emperor myth to the Rhaenyra/Aegon II situation and yes, I definitely agree with you!

I don't agree with the takes that the bloodstone emperor myth was just supposed to be flavor text and nothing more, and that it can't be used in ASOIAF analysis, but I personally think that GRRM chose to include this myth because it IS supposed to tie into something bigger.

Where I think people get it wrong is what story it's supposed to parallel. I think what it's supposed to parallel is not the dance of the dragons, but the legend of Azor Ahai/Nissa Nissa. Both have ties to the event of the Long Night, both are legends/myths that happened waaaaay back rather than recent documented history, and both contain the story of a man killing/overthrowing a woman close to him (wife/sister) in order to gain power. I agree with the theory that what these myths together are supposed to is point out that Azor Ahai isn't actually an pure, upstanding hero, and that the defeat of the Long Night in the current story will NOT be about sacrificing someone for the greater good, but by a different way.

So that's why it's really weird to say that the bloodstone emperor myth is actually about the dance, because those are two entirely different stories that only rely on surface parallels. Sure, Rhaenyra is an older sister who is unfairly treated/opposed because of her gender, and ends up losing the throne to her younger brother like the amethyst empress, but she ultimately ends up losing it because she was also a really bad leader? She does so much bad stuff as queen that there's no way all of it is made up, even if you take into account the misogyny of history writers. Heck, the bloodstone emperor myth doesn't say anything about gender when it comes to why the amethyst empress was deposed. The fact that it's an amethyst empress rather than another emperor feels like it's supposed to be another parallel to Nissa Nissa rather than Rhaenyra.

Ultimately I think the myth of the bloodstone emperor/amethyst empress is supposed to be a reflection of the Azor Ahai myth, to make the point about how the sacrifice of a person, even for the greater good, is still a bad action. It doesn't fit at all with the themes of the dance, a story about the destruction caused by wars of succession with some commentary about gender under feudalism.

One more thing though: I think a reason why people are trying to parallel the dance with the bloodstone/amethyst myth/acting like Rhaenyra is the divinely "right" choice is because they might be remembering the show scene where the white hart, pre-Targ symbol of royalty, appears to Rhaenyra as opposed to Aegon II in episode 3, which reads like a classic "chosen good guy by the universe" moment. I know a lot of people dislike that scene because it contradicts the theme of the dance where no one is the "righteous hero," and I also found it a weird choice, but I do think the showrunners/writers ultimately know what they're doing and know how Rhaenyra's going to end up, so I wonder if they'll reference that scene again in the future in some kind of way.

(sorry for the long ask! Apparently I really like to talk, hope this doesn't bother you)

this post is like an oasis of crisp cool thoughts in the middle of a desert. i have no notes this is really good analysis and also what i believe🫶

#i wrote this exact post in my head re the amethyst empress recontextualizing azor ahai omg. #thank you for writing it so I didn’t have to. medal of honor in posting #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf

[tomheath]

I'm going to defend the writers of HOTD concerning Aemond's complexity. Anyone who read the books noticed how clearly biased were the historians towards the Greens. Remember History is told by the winners and ultimately SPOILER ALERT Rhaenyra's kid get the throne.

If you take from the book, Aemond looks like a psychopath teenager who enjoys killing for the sake of it. All the Greens are portrayed as stereotyped villains: Alicent as the ambitious queen consort, Aegon as the drunk, Helena is not given much room and Aemond is a heartless killer.

This is not George. Not his style of writing. The show created a much more interesting dynamic because it makes you question how you would react if you were in the character's shoes. Let's see Aemond's side. The kid was bullied, father didn't give a shit. Kid lost an eye, father didn't give a shit. How much neglect can a child bear before breaking? The fight among the kids only happened because they questioned Aemond's right to claim Vhagar, which was stupid of them, especially because one episode before their own mother told Rhaena how the dynamics of dragon claiming actually work. What happened was tragic and it doesn't help much that Rhaenyra threatened to torture Aemond for answers and neither her or Luke ever apologized to him for what happened.

It's easy to expect unrealistic things from characters, but when you evaluate how things would've turned out for yourself, you see how accurate the writing has been. Aemond had his face deformed at 10. Imagine being a teenager with a huge scar on your face. Even a prince would have his self-esteem crushed. Of course he is resentful.

In sum, I love where the writing is going. No heroes. No villains. Just flawed people fighting for their interests. I don't seem Team Green people trying to justify their favorite character's atrocities. We love Aemond and co as they are and because they are what they are. Now a guy who killed his own wife acts aggressively towards his new wife and everyone starts bitching? Blame yourself for creating the wrong expectations about the character. The writing was coherent to Daemon's true nature. He's violent and ambitious. You wanted heroes and the writing let you down. That's on you, sis.

#aemond #daemon targaryen #hotd #house of the dragon #rhaenyra targaryen #george rr martin

[horizon-verizon]

Nettles isn't important at all. Nettles is just a plot device against Rhaenyra. Nothing else. And yes I also don't think Mysaria as a character was that important either. Also there's not enough source material to think Nettles isn't a bastard daughter of a Targaryen for any of us to especulate that she was just randomly chosen by Sheepstealer. Please do keep in mind that the sources are biased.

Didn't some of us (not you apparently) in the fandom and esp on Twitter already try to do this song and dance of "just a plot device" in Baela? The actual daughter of Daemon who also put Aegon into worse commission before he landed on Dragonstone and symbolically/ironically halted his attempt at a victorious display of kingship/authority/power, thus mirroring Rhaenys at Rook's Rest? No one (you) learned from that, huh?

In so far as there is a plot and every single character serves a purpose, every single character is technically a "plot device" and was put there for a reason. And both Mysaria and Nettles are "supporting characters":

A supporting character is a character who isn’t the main focus in the story but instead supports the protagonist in to ultimately help them achieve their goal, have a transformation, or ["or" is a magical word, really get to know it, anon] move the story forward. -- Studiobinder

So what you are really trying to say is that Nettles' importance and role in the plot is infinitesimal, nevermind her character or personhood. Take her out and the story/plot would stay the same or Rhaenyra would have had the last part of her fall still exist in the same way in the way it went. Same for Mysaria. Oh, and bc there is no proof or strong enough material to be relied on to believe that she isn't Daemon's bastard daughter, we cannot claim that she isn't Daemon's daughter and that's how she was able to bond w/Sheepstealer.

I already gave the reasons why the first part of this take is delusional HERE and HERE and in the given definition of "supporting character". However, in some posts under the tag of "daemon and nettles", not only have I accepted the bio-daughter theory as possible, I already explained how it is plausible HERE. I just so happen to present other theories for their bond and before a certain point I also said I didn't quite believe in the bio-daughter theory until I put more credence to it in one of the links I already gave.

Also, it's ridiculous to claim that Mysaria was unimportant to the plot/story when:

it is through her and her connections that Daemon got one of Aegon-Helaen's kids killed in retaliation for Luke's death; he wouldn't have been able to have that done as smoothly or at all w/o her; which also got Aegon so angry to risk himself in Rook's Rest (consequences, anon)

Daemon and Rhaenyra both used her for information so much and for so long that she became the official mistress of whispers after they took KL, which shows that they felt they could rely on her abilities, resources, connections, and desire for more power more than others'

she was the one who was rumored to suggest the Brothel Queen punishment (the event that many green fans say actually happened and what we were bombarded with for months on Tumblr and Twitter...but as for her suggesting it or making a not-so-offhand remark about it, that is plausible)

her exile back to Lys had a negative effect on Daemon and Viserys' relationship, even though Daemon never seriously rebelled against Viserys except in marrying Rhaenyra

Daemon--out of any and every sex worker he came across, including Valyrian-looking ones--decided that she was the one he'd at least stay around to hear speak and allow to be his mistress, to carry his child when he also already had a Royce wife for that...so something about her allowed her to be closer to the Targs; she isn't special just bc a prince chose her so much as she managed to get Daemon to think she was worth hanging around or useful in some way

she is the one to finally convince Rhaenyra that Nettles is a threat, and thus trigger the series of plot events of Daemon and Rhaenyra's demises -> Rhaenyra's targeting of Nettles set about getting rid of Rhaenyra's partner/lines of defense, disunified the blacks more, and thus made her more a subject of both more grief, new shock, and be vulnerable to other moving forces

Mysaria as her unique history, relationship, and present situation w/Daemon & Rhaenyra makes her act in the way she acts, puts her close to them, and thus be able to make critical choices/acts that lead to all their deaths in the way that we see them. Without her, things would have been a whole different, we'd have a different story. The same goes for Nettles. They both move the story forward or trigger/cause transformations in the protagonist(s). So this "just a plot device" nonsense is just that: nonsense. Secondary characters are not "unimportant" just because they are secondary, supporting (and not necessarily "supportive"), or/and not the main players or the protagonists/antagonists. They need to exist or there is no story that a plot outlines and provides.

Therefore, it has to be something else that makes you so defiant and dismissive of Nettles and Mysaria to be so desperate to downplay or erase them. You can't try to collapse a basic and fundamental understanding of literary study and knowledge and thus think unreasonably just because. So you either hate them (which can be for various reasons, like racism or classism or misogyny/misogynoir [you don't like lower-classed/SWs/darker skinned/racially demeaned people become more actively/thematically intrinsic to nobles' journeys] or what I describe next), hate how they move the plot into a place you do not like or make a favorite look/reveal an immoral or terrifying dark part of their personality, or the second guides you into the first if you aren't racist, classist, etc. This is thinking in bad faith, anon.

Also, the "the sources are biased" only goes so far in explaining the relationships between characters precisely because they are biased and/or were not there to witness so we could assess their witnessed narratives for ourselves. You have made the conclusion, still, that Nettles is Daemon's bio-bastard daughter (I'm assuming bc you were so adamant about its consideration), but the only way you could access information about Nettles & Daemon is through the text. You only know them bc GRRM created them and provided characterizations personality traits and events for them. Nettle being Daemon's daughter is a theory that comes from Daemon's philandering of his youth or pre-Velaryon/Targaryen marriages. This is a trait of Daemon's and bastards being born of aristocratic men cheating on their noble wives is a given in this feudal world--worldbuilding & characterization.

Who are you to try to tell me that these characters are not important by making it as if the same text and its unfolding story that we both are reading doesn't matter?! When you say there isn't enough "material" to say Nettles is/isn't Daemon's kid, but imply that there is enough to think that she is, thereby revealing your use of the text. Your arrogance is astounding.

#asoiaf asks to me #nettles' characterization #nettles #fire and blood characters #nettles and rhaenyra #mysaria #mysaria's characterization #protagonists #supporting characters #definitions #fandom critical #fire and blood

[thephantomcasebook]

Dyana returning for s2 and possibly being involved in jaehaery's death and thus ultimately making it "aegon's fault" is kinda funny when otherwise the blame would've mostly been put at aemond's feet (daemon's hit on the children aside. and let's be for real, it's definitely going to be daemon's hit, and rhaenyra will look like a hapless bafoon). I never "blamed" aemond for b&c reading f&b, but it very much read as a situation of one thing leads to another. aegon's "involvement" now muddies the waters, which can be interesting, but considering aegon's track record on the show it just seems kinda overkill at this point.

I honestly think that a lot of the ground work of vilifying Aegon and creating the fiction that Aemond is a bad person - despite the fact that no one has ever came at me with a reason that Aemond is a bad person in Season 1. It is all in service of trying to justify "Blood and Cheese" and exonerating Rhaenyra from any blame.

Cause, on the surface, in Fire & Blood, there is actually no justification for the murder of the children. Luke was sent into dangerous territory for a dangerous mission, armed - You are always armed when you're riding a dragon. And he got caught up in a personal grudge and duel of which he is he 100 percent responsible for starting and fostering over near a lifetime of resentment.

The murder of Jaehaerys is supposed to be a monstrous act condoned by monstrous people who are unquestionably the villains of the entire dance. And if you still don't believe that, than all you have to do is look at Viserys II basically putting a Taboo on his own parents names - barring his children and nieces and nephews from ever naming or recognizing Daemon and Rhaenyra as legitimate in any way. And why all of Daemon's children defied his legacy by marrying into his rivals families and continuing their lines.

GRRM has a ton of inconsistencies (Shoutout to @duxbelisarius Military Breakdown series) but he has always baked into the narrative that Rhaenyra was a monster and a villain - and is forever remembered that way by the ASoIaF Universal history, not because of sexist historians, but because of her own children who survived.

The main issue with the telling of this story is that it is being told in the 2020's, in which leftist political activism has become the orthodoxy and official opiate mainstream religion of Hollywood and London entertainment industries. Thus, because of inter-sectional feminism reaching cult like devotion in writers rooms and board rooms throughout mainstream entertainment, they cannot show a woman, a protagonist, becoming evil and acknowledging it as evil.

Don't get me wrong, they're still evil characters doing evil things, it's just that these corrupted and morally bankrupt people think that what they're writing is moral. That in their fucked up algebra "Tragedy" + "Justification" X "Girl Boss" = Morality.

Therefore, as long as they give every woman that has been wronged by Aegon and Aemond justification to avenge a tragedy by being proactive girl bosses, than anything that happens to Jaehaerys is morally right.

Thus, in our minds, what happens in "Blood & Cheese" is an unforgivable and purely evil act of savagery that everyone in Westeros for all time condemns as monstrous.

But to nut jobs like Sara Hess, Olivia Cooke, and Emma D'arcry (Or any "activist" in general) - who is only interested in their political and social agenda - Rhaenyra, Dyana, The White Worm, are villainized by sexist historians for being women of their age with power or agency and that they were justified in their evil acts because they are powerful women. In fact the idea that them being women, in general, is justification enough to do terrible things and see it as morally good, because, they were women.

It's the kind of sociopathic behavior rampant on this site with a bunch of weirdo window lickers cuing over "Let women do crime!" which is fine, but those same people also don't want those same women to face the consequences, to face condemnation, to face justice, for the evil they do.

So, to sum up, I disagree with your premise that Rhaenyra will be in the dark about "Blood & Cheese". What I think is that they're building up moral justifications through villainizing the male characters of Team Green of why Rhaenyra is justified in doing what she and Daemon plan to do.

#House of the Dragon #Aemond Targaryen #Aegon II Targaryen #Anti Rhaenyra Targaryen #Sara Hess

[bohemian-nights]

Rhaenyra’s orders only pertained to Nettles. They never extended to Daemon. She did not “divorce” him. He could have “gone home” back to his wife if he wanted to.

Many Daemyra shippers like to claim that Daemon offed himself because Rhaenyra lost trust in him. He just couldn’t go on cause his Valyrian queen didn’t want him no anymore.

Let me clarify: this is a fanon theory that has no basis in canon. When I mean no basis I mean that it has absolutely 0 truth to it. Let’s look at the evidence shall we:

This is the passage of Fire & Blood where Rhaenyra sends out her kill orders for Nettles. Notice what’s missing? The part where Rhaenyra says she never wants to see Daemon again and is “divorcing him.” Why is it missing? Because it does not exist.

Pay close attention to the last highlighted section. Where Rhaenyra orders Nettles to be murdered in order for Daemon to be freed.

Rhaenyra believed that if she murdered Nettles whatever “spell” she cast on Daemon(because she like this fandom seem to believe that Daemon could never actually want Nettles unless to groom her or to just get his jollies off)would go away and he’d be back by her side with no conflict of interest as if it never happened.

In case that is somehow not enough evidence:

The last highlighted sentence explicitly states that Rhaenyra communicated in the letter(which Daemon read) that she did not want him harmed. She wanted Daemon alive and well.

See Rhaenyra actually needed Daemon(and his dragon) because contrary to what these stans try to say, her greatest threat was not Aemond. It was Daeron and his army:

(Mind you he was considered Rhaenyra’s greatest threat even before Ulf and Hugh betrayed her and joined up with Daeron. So even if Daemon did not know about the betrayal, which I imagine it was in the letter with Nettles' kill orders, he would know that Daeron was the biggest threat to her reign and safety).

Daemon dead or banishing him from her side would be an absolute no-go. After accusing Addam Velaryon of betraying her, Rhaenyra was down to about two dragons(Syraxes and Tyraxes) at her disposal.

(Judging by how she reacted to Joffrey trying to save his dragon during the storming of the Dragonpit, she was not going to let her son and heir go into battle on Tyraxes).

The Greens had about four full-grown dragons (even leaving out Sunfyre and Dreamfyre) on their side. Rhaenyra needed Daemon alive and whole if she wanted to win the war because without him her reign was finished.

Daemon would know this. Even if he killed Aemond he would know that Rhaenyra’s days would be numbered against the great southern army.

Does Daemon leave Maidenpool the moment that letter is in his hands to go to his wife and queen, “the love of his life,” who desperately needed him? Nope:

He reads the letter. Is in a bit of a daze cause he can’t believe what he is reading. A daze which he only comes out of it when Nettles asks him what was written in that later that had turned him so gray. It was her execution letter. He unsheathes his sword for her. Against his wife and queens orders.

He was going to fight through Lord Mooton’s men singlehandly for her. Daemon the kinslayer, the murderer of babes, unsheathes his sword for plain old dirty unwashed Nettles who no one would really miss if she were dead. No one except him.

(This is why I can not understand when people say Daemon “abused” Nettles or that he did not love her. He literally was going to give his life for hers. What is love if not sacrifice and what is the ultimate sacrifice if not giving your life so that the one you love can live?)

Now you might be thinking, well he saved Nettles, that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t go back to Rhaenyra when that business was done. So does he? Nope:

Daemon makes sure Nettles gets to safety then leaves for Harrenhal without following Rhaenyra’s orders in any capacity.

Rhaenyra overplayed her hand. She underestimated how much Daemon actually cared for Nettles. It cost her life in the end. After isolating herself by ordering all those arrests and deaths, she did not survive the year's end. Nettles would be murder helped to seal her fate because it caused her to lose the loyalty of her husband(and his dragon) who chose the woman who “bewitched” him over her.

I can not stress this enough, Daemon did not get sad cause “Nyra” did not love him no more. Rhaenyra never lost her fate in him. She blamed his “dalliance” with Nettles on spells.

She wanted him back by her side, therefore he could’ve gone back “home” at any time and the whole Nettles business would have been forgotten, but Daemon got sick of her bs, saved the woman who he loved, and bounced 🤷🏽‍♀️ He could’ve helped Rhaenyra win the war, but he chose to end it all rather than go back to her:

Or survived and found his way back to his Netty:

But that’s not popular even though it has way more canonical basis than Daemon died for Nyra.

So if it’s not true that Daemon lived, ate, sh*t for Rhaenyra until his dying day, and then offed himself cause he couldn’t take her not wanting him anymore, then why are Daemyra stans lying? Cause they don’t like that Daemon chose Nettles over Rhaenyra. A girl who should be less than their Valyrian queen.

#this is why I call d*emyra dumbnyra #the fans are about as smart as a bag of rocks #that’s me being nice cause I could call them racist pieces of delusional garbage which is what they are 🤷🏽‍♀️ #and fettles stans(nettles ‘fans’) aren’t much better #nettles #daemon targaryen #daemon x nettles #nettles x daemon #daemon targaryen x nettles #hotd #daetty #dattles #dettles #house of the dragon #hotd spoilers #anti daemyra #rhaenyra targaryen #protect nettles from this fandom ✊🏽 #this has been another addition of hotd fans can’t f*cking read because it triggers them that their fave isn’t 1 #very unserious people in this fandom #I’m convinced that if GRRM had put in that Daemon tattooed ‘I love Netty’ on his forehead #one third of the fandom would say it was a misprint and that he meant ‘I love the one true queen Nyra’ #another third would say it meant ‘I love my daughter Netty’ #and then the final third would say it meant ‘I love grooming Netty’ #🤦🏽‍♀️ #anti hotd fandom #are you guys actually dumb or is this all just an act? #hotd commentary #bncommentary

[backjustforberena]

about the rhaenys & rhaenyra scene, rhaenys doesn't seem like the type to waste her time being petty with a teenager just cause she's bored, but she was in rhaenyra's position before and her world was turned upside down the first time she was replaced as heir. i'm sure rhaenys was trying to prepare rhaenyra for what she thought was inevitably gonna happen: rhaenyra would be replaced by a male heir. it's what happened to rhaenys and she actually had a birthright to the throne, a better claim than her male relatives.

rhaenyra went into that conversation on the defensive and i don't blame her: none of her father's most important advisors believed her position was permanent, she was sent away from the council meeting and questioned by otto when she exercised some authority, her father started looking for a new wife, which meant he'd likely have a male heir in the future... it makes sense that she feels threatened and not taken seriously. rhaenys is the mother of the girl who rhaenyra thought her father was gonna marry so she probably expected rhaenys to antagonize her in laena's name but i believe rhaenys genuinely wanted to take the veil off rhaenyra's eyes so she wouldn't be massively disappointed later.

Thank you for sending this in!! It's lovely of you and thanks for your patience before I answered. I pretty much agree with you solidly on this. It's why I love the scene so much - there are so many layers and levels to it.

I agree with you, I don't think Rhaenys is being petty when she participates. Being mean to a teenager for the sake of it is not Rhaenys's style: it gains nothing, it's infantile and it's, ultimately, not in her interests. But, I think there is still some cruelty to the instigation of the discussion. It's just not personal to Rhaenyra.

When that conversation happens, Rhaenys has been watching, just as Rhaenyra has, Viserys and Laena walk. She's feeling her lack of power in the situation (a situation that, as much as she has consented to, also bothers her) and the only one she can remotely hold power over, at that point in time, is Rhaenyra. So, does she educate to help Rhaenyra? Yes. Does she also educate Rhaenyra to take her down a peg or two? Also, yes. The two can coexist.

She doesn't police her tongue and she's blunt and demeaning and unsympathetic. But she's also the only one that has told Rhaenyra the truth. The only one who can empathise. The one who cares enough to read Rhaenyra's emotions and talk to her. The only one willing to engage with what the certain future (for everyone does see a male heir as certain at this point and, tbh, for about two years) will mean for Rhaenyra.

I also don't blame Rhaenyra for being defensive. She's had to be defensive against everyone and Rhaenys, when challenged, isn't one to back down or apologise or even to show deference to Rhaenyra's position as Heir. Just as the men don't, as you quite rightly point out. And she's aware that Rhaenys is judging her, even if she doesn't know Rhaenys's motivations - Rhaenys was watching her choose Criston for the Kingsguard. All that just paints her as an antagonist.

The difference with Rhaenys, however, is, I think, Rhaenyra believes she has the upper hand and can hold that upper hand and act on it as it's woman to woman. As Rhaenys is not the King, or on the Small Council or a Great Lord. It's only by engaging in conversation that she realises that she doesn't and that Rhaenys actually holds a lot of power just from the way she carries herself and the experience she has. And the only way to continue the pretence that she does is to disregard Rhaenys's wisdom and believe she is wrong.

Rhaenys's motives are pure, I think. But they are not motherly. Rhaenyra is demanding that of her - it's Rhaenyra that turns the conversation into what it is. It's Rhaenyra that is the most antagonistic in the conversation. Rhaenyra doesn't show any vulnerabilities or ask for help or seem open to advice. What she shows, to Rhaeanys, is only her weaknesses. Rhaenys acts accordingly.

#house of the dragon #rhaenys targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen

[medschoolash]

How do you think their relationship was before the events of 1x01? They seemed flirty in the first episode. Having said that, I don't think Daemon has been purposely 'preying' on her the whole time, but do you think before the events of the last episode, he thought that maybe someday there will be something more, considering their family's history? Undoubtedly, I get the feeling Rhaenyra has always had a crush on him, seeing him as that cool older guy.

oh interesting question anon!

So I think their relationship was fun and carefree before 1x01. I think they liked each other's company and Rhaenyra more than likely did have a crush on him but I don't even think she recognized it as a "crush" during childhood. I actually think she barely recognized it as a crush even once she got older even though it became exceedingly obvious to the viewers as time went on. I think growing up he was her cool young uncle that gave her gifts and took her on adventures and never treated her like she was nobody or made of glass just because she was a girl. I'm sure he hung the moon for her and Daemon enjoyed having her adoration and cared deeply for her. He probably had a soft spot for her because she was so isolated considering she had no real siblings and had to watch her parents lose child after child. Daemon also cares deeply for Viscerys so Rhaenyra being an extension of him probably endeared her to him even more. Rhaenyra not having siblings might also be another reason why she became very close to Daemon, he was always around when no one else was.

So I like to think they had a close and carefree relationship that they both just allowed to exist as it was without overthinking it. A relationship that didn't purposely try to cross boundaries but just didn't concern itself with establishing any boundaries in the first place so that's why when we see them in 1x01 their chemistry is a mixture of familial and just a tad bit inappropriate.

She's the first person he wants to see when he returns to Kings Landing and Rhaenyra is giddy at the idea of seeing him and about that fact that no one knows. She likes that they have their own little secrets. They speak Valyrian only with each other. They take jabs at each other for fun. Daemon gifts her a necklace which would very well just be a normal uncle thing until he makes her turn around and calls her beautiful in Valyrian. Like I said none of these things read as explicitly inappropriate and neither one of them behaves as if it is because it's just how they are with each other. I don't think either of them believed they ever had to adhere to the normal conventions of an uncle-niece relationship even if their relationship didn't turn romantic/sexual in nature until much later so this is how they developed such a close bond. You could even argue that it's this belief that leads to that bond ultimately turning out the way it did. If there are no boundaries it makes sense that familial love can eventually transform into romantic love.

For Daemon I don't think he ever consciously thought about having rhaenyra in that way until the last episode. Maybe he subconsciously did by episode 2 or before that but I truly believe that until just before the events of the last episode Daemon didn't think consciously "hmm maybe I can have Rhaenyra? Maybe I actually desperately want Rhaenyra?"

Their reunion just so happened to come at the perfect time because Rhaenyra was finally getting around to understanding this weird affection she's always had for her uncle and Daemon was able to return to a Rhaenyra who is now a woman. This was always going to shift their dynamic no matter what even if it didn't shift it in the way that we saw on the show.

That's just my take on it. I could be very very wrong but the fun part will be watching to see if anything else on the show gives us any insight into how they were before the events of the show and how they get to where they are now.

#Daemyra asks #daemyra #daemon x rhaenyra #thanks for this great question! #I really enjoyed thinking about this one

[navree]

I never cared before about Alys when I've read F&B but the way some of those shippers hate her so much , in Twitter i see alot of them call her ugly hag , gro**mer and so many misgonystic/ ageism names and even hope for her to get cut from the show.. What for ? She is very important to the narrative and especially to Aemond's arc...

Yeah, shippers of other things and antis have been getting weirrrrrrrrrd about Alys. And that's not just a thing specific to her, I've seen some people on my side say weird shit about Helaena (which is fucked up she's the number one girlie y'all are fake fucking Green fans if you're gonna shit on Helaena for no reason), and I'm really not looking forward to anything the Daemon/Rhaenyra shippers are going to have to say once Nettles shows up. Chillest shippers I've seen in this fandom thus far are the Rhaenicents, God bless. And it'd be one thing on its own if I could trust that this was just confined to dislike of a character, but considering the track record people have when it comes to ASOIAF related media (the people who made fun of Emilia Clarke's appearance and her brain injuries and bullied Emily Carey off of social media are never going to see Heaven), I do not trust these people not be utterly vitriolic to whichever actress they ultimately cast as Alys.

People can have their criticisms of the ship, they can point out what they want about the age difference (even though it's not grooming because words have meanings Jesus Christ, not to mention Aemond has significantly more power in the relationship than Alys does) or just not enjoy it, that's all fair and valid. But it's really weird to demand that Alys be cut entirely when she's a unique part of her story and offers a unique perspective that no other character can offer, as well as her place in the stories and arcs not just for Aemond but for Daemon and Larys and honestly even Criston cuz he was at Harrenhal too. Alys can't be replaced with another character, no one occupies the part of the story she's a part of in the way that she does, that's why she as a character exists. Nor is it necessarily "out of character" for Aemond to fall for her or prioritize her once he does, and it's not him "abandoning his family for some chick" as I've seen some people actually say. For one, sorry that Aemond's recorded actions as written down in one book aren't fitting into what you want to happen, but that's on you, not the writing. If, over the course of a single story, a character's canon actions and canon thoughts and canon feelings and canon words feel "out of character" to you, then you simply do not have an accurate read on that character, I'm sorry. For two, it's not even him abandoning his family or being out of character. Nothing about their relationship is out of bounds for the kind of person that Aemond is, and as I mentioned in a prior ask, Aemond is not in a position to help his family. Even beyond the fact that Aemond considers Daemon their biggest threat at the moment and his primary goal was to get rid of him before thinking of any way to depose Rhaenyra, his family's either dead or prisoners to a hostile faction, and any attempt to try and free the ones he knows are alive just aren't feasible at that time (if you think Aemond's going to gamble the lives of his mother and his sister on the off chance that an assault on Rhaenyra might succeed, then you're stupid, no two ways about it). With that backdrop, it makes perfect sense that Aemond is at least going to fight tooth and nail for the one person he does have and does love, that he can save, because he can't do anything for Alicent or Helaena or Aegon who at this point might even be dead, but he can do something to keep Alys safe and well by his side. And even if you want to be incredibly cynical about it, then at this point in time Alys could potentially be carrying a future claimant for the Greens. No one knows where Aegon is, Jaehaera is ineligible for the throne under Westerosi customs and laws, Jaehaerys and Maelor are both dead, and Aemond and Daeron are both actively participating in deadly combat that could (and does) kill them. For pragmatism alone, Aemond wanting to ensure that, if Alys is carrying a son, that this son survives to continue pressing the claims set forth by their side, or Hell even just to make it so Rhaenyra doesn't win, makes sense.

Even if you want to ignore the importance Alys brings to the narrative, what she furthers in Aemond's arc, what his love for her can reveal to us about the kind of character that he is, that still doesn't make anything about the romance or the actions it spurs "out of character" or an indictment on Aemond, nor does it justify being weird and vile about a fictional character or people who enjoy her relationship with another fictional character. Ya fucking freaks.

#personal #answered #anonymous #wow i did not expect this answer to get as long as it did #but as we know i'm quite passionate about these two and also alys specifically #listen i don't care for hel****** at all in any whatsoever #i think it's real dumb and i think theories that try to cut alys and replace her with the character in question #are bonkers and stupid and generally created by people who don't understand anything about anything #but i'm not gonna be a bitch about it because none of it is real #and it's fucking shipping! just ship and let ship what's the matter with some of y'all

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

how do you and aifsaath perceive aegon III character? What could had been his true potential if not for depression? Or even a more fun what if , what if aegon III and viserys II were raised by their parents daemon and rhaenyra

Would you had seen a different character traits , values or different interests? i wonder if viserys would had been still interested in economy after having no contact with rogares. I dont see rhaenyra allowing that happening ever even baby viserys gets a crush on beautiful stunning women larra. But i am not sure about daemon…. Would daemon see the profit and benefit from wedding viserys to rogares? Rogares claim to be important valyrian rooted family ….

i wonder if dance of dragons didnt happen and lets say rhaenura or aegon gets crowned. There are tensions but no one died . In other words miracle happened. Would daemon rather marry his sons aegon and viserys to aegon heleana’s daughters who are dragonriders too than rich magister’s daughter and vaemon velaryon’s granddaughter?

such good questions! @aifsaath and I both have a big soft spot for Aegon III. I think that, considering everything he went through, canon Aegon showed a remarkable resilience and certainly had the potential to be a good king. One thing about Aegon 3 that I noticed when I recently re-read the Regency chapters is that there's the definitely implication that he realizes when people are acting against his best interests. During the Regency he's limited in his ability to act, but he keeps track of those slights. I think the history books are a bit too harsh on Aegon 3, considering the gigantic mess he was responsible for cleaning up and the way his Regents seemed to have little interest in setting him up for a strong reign when they could put their efforts towards advancing their own houses instead. He held it together, and arguably it's because he managed to hold it together that House Targaryen kept on going for as long as it did when the Dance could easily have ended the dynasty.

As for your other questions, I think the chances are high that in some hypothetical no-dance world, Daemon pushes for Aegon III to be heir, and probably pushes what Aife and I jokingly call the cursed Baegon ship, that is, Aegon III and Baela. In book canon they're really not all that far apart in age, and Daemon wouldn't have any issue with brother-sister marriage, and it's actually pretty surprising to me that in canon Corlys doesn't try to make it happen post-Dance. If for some reason that's not possible, in this no-Dance world I think Daemon would prefer Jaehaera over a Lyseni merchant's daughter. I think it's unlikely Larra or the Rogares are a factor at all without the Dance and Viserys' "rescue." It's actually kind of interesting to me how rarely house Targaryen looked to Essos for potential marriage alliances, and I think it speaks to the practicalities of being a "foreign" house in Westeros. For all that Daemon might have made noise about Hightowers, the fact of the matter was that the Targaryens needed to shore up their domestic alliances, and that need only becomes more pronounced once the dragons die out.

That said, it's possible that by the time Aegon III was ready to marry Daemon wouldn't even be in the picture anymore. Not only was he already getting up there in years, Daemon always seemed to me to have a restless spirit, and didn't seem like the kind of guy who was going to die in his bed surrounded by children and grandchildren, you know? So maybe he wouldn't have much to do with the marriages his sons ultimately made. It's interesting to think about though!

#asks #aegon iii targaryen #jaehaera targaryen #larra rogare

[coleoffduty]

You are a certified genius- actually- UR SO SO REAL FOR THE SONG CHOICES FOR ALICENT- THOSE 3 SONGS ARE SO PERFECT FOR HER-UR SO SO REAL FOR THAT- (also- Rhaenicent SEQUEL???? Are you telling me that there will be a sequel for them with like latest timeline with Alicent trying to sorta find herself??? IM??? SO???? *faints*)

Wait- one question, will Alicent think about releasing a song that actually is from her? like an original song that will not be altered by anyone, now that she's living for herself? or no??

Im now on the floor sobbing over it- thank you so much- Legacies altered my life and I am so inlove with how you characterize everyone!!!! and fitting the nepobaby rockstar celeb narrative with them is so fucking genius and so amazing and fits so perfectly I am actually in awe (Im too inlove with ur work im sorry abt this 😭💖)

Also when you said christian religious songs,,, the thing that popped up at the top of my head is Trisha Paytas' "I love you Jesus" 😭😭😭 IM SO SORRY FOR THIS BUT 😭😭 (Thinking of Rhaenyra trolling Alicent with that song now- actually-)

tyty, legacies alicent + voice claim mistki= agony has been sitting in my brain so i'm just happy to sort of send that out finally. as for the rhaenicent sequel, it is going to be about the current timeline but rhaenyra focused. the prequel is in alicent's perspective and so i felt it fitting for a grown rhaenyra to sort of have the narrative control after everything's that's happened between them. there's some moodboards on the whole hotd musicians series (in order too) that is on my pinterest if anyone is curious about that; link here!

also, i'm very glad and appreciative that people enjoy the legacies series/fic. i really only write what i want to see in the fandom so i'm happy other people can find that niche enjoyable as well. a mutual sent me a screenshot of a really endearing interaction on twitter about legacies and it genuinely made my night. but fyi, as much as you guys feel you might be too deep into it, just know i'm the ultimate legacies nerd with all the lore written in my notes app and physical timelines jotted down.

btw it's funny how you mention rhaenrya trolling alicent based on her religious music phase because she most definitely does when they begin their little beefing stage. alicent makes a passive aggressive comment about laenor's sexuality or the fact that the boys look a lot like harwin and rhaenyra is just like 'that's not very singing sweetheart of you' or 'didn't you sing about how the gods love all of their people? oh right, you didn't actually write your songs, my bad'. they've come a long way for sure.

#lucemond #rhaenicent #fic: legacies #offsasks