wangxianhugs

[wangxianhugs]

Of course, I mentioned the Jins and Lans mainly because even them don’t really have a true consequences, so I don’t know what jc’s fan arguing jc had to deal with the consequences alone means. I agree with you about collective retribution = bad, too. 

For lxc, I think it’s a complicated situation. Like I said, I did not and do not argue over lwj’s punishment, because it’s like you said, a different situation altogether. So no comparison of sentences here. 

Lxc, for all that he probably never intentionally killed any innocents ever in his life, is in the end a sect leader. A leadership position brings responsibilities as much as benefits, and his people looked to him to lead them through the correct course. It’s his responsibilities to do the politic dirty works between the sects, to figure out if something happening is right or wrong, and to deciding on a suitable respond for his sect. 

Yes, he’s still human, but in this case, the fact that he was manipulated and tricked does not change the fact that he, as a leader, failed his folks. Why did the Lan interfere with a previously private issues between wwx and the Jins (Jzs’s death)? Why didn’t he, as a leader, confirm information regarding the attack where Jzx was killed? No, he didn’t have to as an unrelated sect leader, but he did if he wanted to interfere in this mess. 

Iirc, the Lans were there at wen qing/ning’s execution, then some were killed by a berseking wen ning, thus led to the Lan’s participation in Nightless city. Then the question is why would the Lans be there to see wen qing/ning’s execution? 

By that point, there were no reason for the Lans to participate at all, beside most likely the sworn brotherhood. So the subsequent event wouldn’t have to happen if not because Lxc, as a sect leader, decided to step in when he hadn’t at the very least getting information from both sides, from the most direct info (from wwx/jgs/jgy) to scouting and spies. Note, that it’s not wrong of him to step in to what he believed was injustice, as nmj did the same to xy, but it’s that he stepped in when he DID NOT have all the information necessary for his own jurisdiction, instead acting on a one-sided claim. That’s absolutely not ok as a leader. As a sworn brother whose represents no one but himself, sure, believe what you believe. But once your action, and your sect’s action, can influent a lots of folks in the cultivation world (based on the Lan’s reputation as a good, fair sect), then it’s not okay, not at all.

Thus, is why I said I believe there should have been a consequence for his action, not for believing in his sworn brother, but to let his personal trust interfere with his judgement regarding his duties to his sect. Of course, here we are arguing in good faith that he did this because he trust jgy, and not because following the Jins were more beneficial for his sect. In either cases, it’s still a bad judgement to act without facts/info, and helping/escalating even further while still not collecting any info (nightless city, 1st siege) which led to the deaths of many Lan disciples, and possible loss of the Lan’s reputation as being fair and just (for killing/raiding innocents and blindly trust/befriend/helping evil folks). 

Now, when I said consequences/punishment, I did not mean a comparable sentence to lwj. I’d say more of a removing from position if it’s in modern time, or a trial period of reviewing his leadership’s abilities. Now since there is no heir yet, and lwj most likely won’t want the position, I rather like some fics’ solution of sending him off as a rogue cultivator for a set time (2-3 years) so that he would be more understanding of human nature/situation/society and thus, hopefully reducing risk that someone can trick him by pretending to be all poor me again. Or at the very least, I’d like to see him be active in fixing his mistakes, aka spending time working hard on improving his leadership’s abilities/step up more in his leadership position, with the Lans elders maybe keep a closer eyes on him for some times. Him going into seclusion voluntarily is just a disappointment because not only didn’t he do anything to fix the issues, it’s clear that the Lans higher up has zero interest in holding their sect leader responsible, while willing to condemn others of the most small inconveniences (the 3000 rules, lqr’s attitude toward wwx, the damn rule of not interacting with wwx despite him proven innocent and the Lan had a big role in murdering him and all of his family then). That’s double standard no matter how I think about it. 

I can't believe how pissed some people are that wangxian got a happy ending. Someone said they just "left jc to deal with the consequences" yeah fool the consequences of his own goddamn actions. Is he not a grown ass man??

I mean, also... what fucking consequences? The things that Wangxian brought about don’t actually have anything to do with JC. Not directly, anyway. It’s the Lans and Jins that are handling the fallout of what happened with JGY, not the Jiangs, and if JC involves himself in it that’s his choice, not something Wangxian foisted on him. And no, Wangxian did not foist the consequences onto the Lans and Jins either, because I know people argue that, too. At the end of the day fixing the problems the sects created was never Wangxian’s responsibility, and frankly doing what they did is already more than they technically had to. But yeah, the only consequence that JC faces directly because of Wangxian is... the fact that WWX wants nothing to do with him now. And he has no one to blame for that but himself, given the whole wholesale slaughter of civilians and repeated attempts at fratricide and generally being terrible to WWX for years situation. Of course the actual argument that the stans are making is that WWX didn’t have the right to get sick of JC treating him like shit and go off to live his own life, but that’s... y’know, stupid.

#mdzs #lxc #lans

[wangxianhugs]

...I’m sorry, what? Are you telling me that it’s NORMAL for someone who thinks the one who loved them most, actually despise him? I’m confused, like very confused. How is it possible for jc to think that wwx despise him??? How? He grew up with wwx. He played with wwx his entire childhood up to half teenager years. Please just tell me ONE action of wwx that could be misunderstood as spite, I’m horrified at how folks see situations here. Like, a lot of people can think that wwx despise them, even including lwj before wwx returned, but jc and jyl are the 2 people who couldn’t claim that. Or did the war achievement/spoils/golden core that jc used to rebuild ymj just drop from the sky one day? 

Let’s look at facts. JC had the most supposed-to-be happy family in the whole main cast of mdzs. His parents were alive and well, the fights are simply because yzd had a victim-complex and unbearable personality. His sister was kind and caring, his martial brother was willing to give him his own life. He didn’t have complex inner-sect issues like the Jins, no insane rules and cold/boring childhood like the Lans, he in fact inherits a very good reputation sect from his father, he was literally born with the golden spoon.

 The only trauma he went through was the Lotus pier massacre, of which he had personally murdered all known enemies who were responsible, going above and beyond by watching those who saved his life being burned to ash. Note, the Wens didn’t single out Lotus Piers. ALL other great sects and various smaller sects were attacked, some similarly annihilated. He got wwx’s war achievement and spoils to rebuild his sect, got his sister to marry off to the rich Jins for extra power and most likely monetary gifts.

 Does he really have a stand to claim the world’s against him, especially after 15/18 years later (when wwx came back)? After stepping on the flesh and blood of his own martial brother who he owned not one but multiple life debts (the cave thing, the golden core, the fact that wen qing/ning wouldn’t save him if not because wwx, the 2nd siege), who not only let him had the chance to kill wen chao, but also taking back lotus piers? Does he have no shame?

 In fact, what he had/has is a burning hatred and blood thirst to anyone he deemed weak enough to bully/murder. He’s able to think clearly and making plans to drag innocents back for torture and murder, he happily licks the Jins’ boots cause they’re stronger than him, he didn’t attack lwj at first because he knew he couldn’t win. That’s not PTSD, that’s not thinking the whole world is against him, that’s pure cruelty and borderline obsession to murder and power tripping. 

Look, some folks in mdzs can claim that the whole world is against them, and the claim can be in some ways justified. JGY was looked down onto and humiliated by almost the whole cultivation world for being a prostitute’s son. WWX clearly did (and probably still kinda does), and LWJ, when he protected wwx, can almost claim to feel the same.  Child XY can kinda say that being a beggar and callously hurt just because. These are the cases when they didn’t have a choice in the situations they were in, be it that they were born with it or was result of someone’s evil plans. 

JC? Yeah, that’s like 95% the result of his own action/unbearable personality. Who would want to help/be friends with someone who gladly bite the hands that helped them? Who wouldn’t he betray if it’s more convenient/more beneficial? His family? Please, he gladly send his sister to marry into an extremely dirty/full of backstabbers family, with intense infighting when the fight for the main line’s inheritance (jgy/jzx) just started and jgy got full support from his brothers (both great sects’ leaders!). His sister, who was not only not a good cultivator (no fighting strength), no beauty (when the Jins are all about sleeping around with beautiful women), but one who didn’t seem to understand any “noble" rules and traditions (as seen in her various interactions), whose main strong points were being kind hearted, stepping away from conflicts, and good cooking skills. All of which doesn’t help for a power infighting. Are you sure he’s not sending her as a sacrifice and for her dowry? Because as much as I feel bad for jyl who was a result of her situation instead of being a real bad person, the fact is she does not suit the Jinlintai, and JZX was right initially that they weren’t suitable as a couple. I honestly doubt they would still be happy together for a long time if they didn’t die young, because with how naive he himself is, it’s not hard for other ambitious/beautiful/smart/cultivating-strong women to catch his eyes, and she (and jc) wouldn’t be able to do anything about it. 

Oh God!!! When I said we were more JC than WWX, I didn't mean the part that he was clearly mean and morally wrong, but the emotional inability to function as a person who doesn't think the world is against them, or to think that one of the people who loves him most, actually despises him. About WWX, that's exactly why he is the exception, many people can't help but attack, precisely because they suffered too much and attacking and defending is all they know how to do.

...Some thoughts, in no particular order:

Looking at JC’s actions and responses, I don’t think he actually does think the world is against him. If anything it’s the opposite; he thinks the world will just let him do whatever the fuck he wants no matter how many people suffer as a direct result of his actions. And that’s not a result of suffering, that’s a result of an overwhelming sense of entitlement. JC thinks that being a sect leader means he can do anything he wants, and he does it. And I don’t think he thinks one of the people who loves him most actually despises him either (assuming you mean WWX). JC only starts implying that he doesn’t think WWX loves him when he’s being manipulative. It’s a guilt trip. I get the strong impression that JC knows WWX loves him, he just thinks that he deserves more than just brotherly love. It’s entitlement again; JC thinks he has the right to force WWX to stay by his side and anything short of complete obedience is a failure on WWX’s part.

As for WWX... “I don’t want anyone to suffer the way I did” is not an exceptionally rare sentiment, as far as I’m aware? It’s a hard sentiment to always keep to when you’ve had a hard life, but keeping to it matters. WWX struggles to keep to it, he gets angry and snaps at people he loves sometimes, but he always, always apologises for his mistakes. Sometimes he “can’t help but attack”, but the difference between him and JC is that he recognises that that is his responsibility to work on and fix and that when he loses control like that it’s up to him to make it right.

The thing with JC is that he does not care that he’s hurting people. This is not a man losing control due to past experiences he’s struggling to come to terms with, it’s a man refusing to rein in his worst impulses because he does not want to. JC isn’t fighting against his past, he’s hurting people because he can. A huge theme in MXTX’s works is how important is that you try even if you fail; the people who refuse to try are to a man the villains. JC, alone among everyone in the main cast who struggled due to family issues, never works to improve himself or not copy the mistakes of his parents, and given MDZS’s theme of “do better than the previous generation, you’ll make your own mistakes but you don’t have to copy theirs”... I think that says something about him. And also, I think MXTX is making a point with the way the Jiang sibling who suffered the least of YZY’s various torments turned out infinitely worse than his siblings? Something about how more suffering doesn’t inherently translate to being crueller and less suffering doesn’t inherently translate to being kinder. Or maybe “being good after years of suffering is hard but it’s worthwhile in the end”. I don’t know, I just think boiling it down to “well of course JC is incapable of being a decent person, he’s been through a lot” is inaccurate, ignores pretty much every other character in the novel and their reactions to the shit they go through, and is just... pointlessly defeatist. No one is incapable of becoming a better person than they were; it’s hard and sometimes seems pointless, but with work and support it’s always possible. JC didn’t even have to learn alone; remember, there are years between the fall of Lotus Pier and WWX and JYL’s deaths, JC wasn’t thrown straight from childhood into parenting. He had support and love. In fact he never didn’t have it, WWX and JYL threw a lot into standing by him. And of course later he was a fucking sect leader, he was surrounded by people his entire life.

JC could have been better. He chose not to try. I don’t think that should be brushed aside with a “it can’t be helped, he was abused” and the evidence to the contrary being shoved away with “that’s exceptional”.

#mdzs

[wangxianhugs]

Mhm, that almost sounds like taking responsibilities of their own actions is a bad thing...is it any wonder they are jc’s fans?

To be serious, though, the fallout and all consequences that happened to the Lans/Jins/other sects are the result of their own actions, ie planning/executing/helping the murder of innocents, or in other words, their karmas finally catching up with them. Like the old saying, “it’s not that there is no karma for your action, it’s just not the time yet” (loosely translated).

 And honestly, for their actions, I still feel the consequences weren’t enough, especially jc got off easy despite the blood of (most likely innocents) demonic cultivators and the wen remants on his hands. Look, the Jins even has hope that their next generation could be better, the Lans lost what, a sect leader, but only temporary (an interview said lxc left seclusion and got married later, which is funny cause lwj got whipped half dead because he fought the elders to protect a supposed-to-be evil man, but lxc trusting the wrong person who used it to murder a sect leader, kill many Lan disciples by persuading lxc to support him/sending the disciples to nightless city and wen qing/ning’s execution, zoombie-fy multiple entire sects, raided and murdered an innocent man and his family, yet ended up with a few years voluntarily seclusion.

 Yes, I know lxc was blinded by a master manipulator, but a. he admitted he knew of jgy’s actions and b. he STILL fucking believe he had reasons (what the fuck reason do you use to justify murdering entire sects???) and most importantly, c. he’s a sect leader and responsible to the sect’s actions under his rulings. I’m not arguing if lwj’s punishment was unfair by itself, but certainly something is funky in the punishment system if lxc got no punishment at all, just voluntarily seclusion that he could get out at anytime).

I can't believe how pissed some people are that wangxian got a happy ending. Someone said they just "left jc to deal with the consequences" yeah fool the consequences of his own goddamn actions. Is he not a grown ass man??

I mean, also... what fucking consequences? The things that Wangxian brought about don’t actually have anything to do with JC. Not directly, anyway. It’s the Lans and Jins that are handling the fallout of what happened with JGY, not the Jiangs, and if JC involves himself in it that’s his choice, not something Wangxian foisted on him. And no, Wangxian did not foist the consequences onto the Lans and Jins either, because I know people argue that, too. At the end of the day fixing the problems the sects created was never Wangxian’s responsibility, and frankly doing what they did is already more than they technically had to. But yeah, the only consequence that JC faces directly because of Wangxian is... the fact that WWX wants nothing to do with him now. And he has no one to blame for that but himself, given the whole wholesale slaughter of civilians and repeated attempts at fratricide and generally being terrible to WWX for years situation. Of course the actual argument that the stans are making is that WWX didn’t have the right to get sick of JC treating him like shit and go off to live his own life, but that’s... y’know, stupid.

#mdzs #no really i don't hate the Lans #i wish them to be good so wwx would have a good home #but something is not fair here #but i guess that's life #wwx is my baby though and i'd murder anyone on his way to happiness #lwj is love lwj is life too #the lans are not fair and sometimes questionable ethics (madam lans #but they are not by themselves evil #at least not outright #just blinded by their 3000 rules #now that i think about it #the nies seems like the best in this case except the dao spirit thing #mhmm #i don't even wanna talk about jc fan anymore

[wangxianhugs]

That honestly would make no sense like at all??? The bell was for JIANG SECT MEMBERS, and thus technically even JL shouldn’t have it tbh. Iirc in canon it was mentioned that JL was living half of the time in Lotus Pier, thus WWX guessed he should have the bell, which implies normally ie a Jin-sect-raised-JL shouldn’t have the bell. Considering also JL technically/officially takes after his father’s lineage, not his mother, so he’s a Jin sect member, not Jiang. There is also the fact that a potential sect leader shouldn’t belong to 2 sects at the same time due to conflict of interests, which was why women who inherited their sect/household back then had their husbands marry in (take the wife’s last name/ leave his home to live in her household). 

By post canon, WWX already became a member of the Lan sect (as seen in family banquet) so a decision to take/keep a proof of membership in another sect is not to be taken lightly. It would be announcing to the whole world that WWX returned to the Jiang sect as an official member, which in turn highlight the hypocrisy of JC for killing so many demonic cultivators and yet taken in the Yiling Laozhu himself, regardless if he is innocent or not. JC’s pride would never be able to take it tbh. Also I doubt LWJ would be comfortable seeing the bell as it would remind him of JC’s betrayal and WWX 1st death, and while he wouldn’t say a thing, I’m sure WWX would never want to remind LWJ of these bad memories. And for what? A place he could never return, a sect that betrayed him, a supposed-brother who murdered him in cold blood? What a joke. 

 Like jesus christ the jiang sect took him in from 9-15, that’s like 6 years of caring, with yzd repeated unfair punishments and whippings. He already paid off these years by taking back Lotus Pier and giving them all of his war achievements (which is like, A LOT), then proceeded to paid off (unnecessary) the cultivation in form of his golden core to JC, then finally giving his life for JC’s achievement (heh, stepping on your supposed-brother blood and flesh for reputation, can he get any lower???). What the fuck does the Jiang still want from him??? Leave the poor man alone with his sweet caring husband, for goodness sake! Can’t they see the jiangs (read: JC, and I fear in the future JL) are just vampires sucking his blood by this point??? Whatever he owned, he repaid by tenfolds, what the fuck else do they want from him??? 6 years are like, a blink of an eye especially for cultivators, it’s really cannot carry over 2 lifetimes like how some folks want them to be bf forever-fucking-ever, especially when beside living in the same place, they had nothing in common, from personalities, values, to world’s view. 

What do you think of WWX getting a new clarity bell? I see it in a lot in fics and art but I never know if I like the idea of it. Maybe if it was JL giving it to him as a symbol of seeing him as family but usually I see it used as a way for WWX and JC to reconcile without JC actually taking accountability for his stuff.

Honestly it just doesn’t make sense. JC sure as fuck isn’t going to give him one, and I’m pretty sure JL doesn’t actually have the authority to do it. You’re right, it generally feels like the most low-effort possible reconciliation? “Look, have a bell, now I get to treat you like shit again because we’re ~family~”. I guess it’s nice to think of him getting that connection to the Jiangs, but given a lot of the story involves him moving on from that life and finding his own path it feels like a step back, especially given JC’s habit of using every scrap of offered kindness to leash WWX to his family. So I guess basically I think it could be a nice, moving thing but in practice it’s usually either nonsensical or infuriating.

#jiang cheng #mdzs #why do i keep using jc tag when i blocked it on my board #oh right cause my fury with jc is almost the only thing that could get me to talk #shame on me #sorry guys #i just really really don't like people like jc #he got like the best childhood/teens years in the whole universe #how the fuck did he turned out to have the worst personality #jfm should have listened to the saying to marry a immoral wife is harmful to 3 generations of the family #congrats on marrying the worst woman in mdzs universe #if your sect wouldn't be destroyed #whose would? #definitely not the other 3 great sects #they have brain #and normal thinking wifes/sect ladies

[wangxianhugs]

I’m pretty sure it was mentioned that they left because YZY constantly verbally abused them with her whole “servant” thing, but don’t quote me on that. Also, it seems pretty normal in the setting for the rogue cultivators to traveling and bringing their family up since they depend mostly on the payment from these hunts (see Mian Mian). I do see your point, though.

What I would consider is, imagine what hell would YZY raised if JFM even dared to help them. At the very least, the rumors would went from “JFM and CCSR had a thing” to “WCZ not only know, but turned an eye on his wife sleeping with JFM because he’s a servant and gladly using his wife’s body to please his master/advance/ earn money from JFM”, and I won’t be surprise if it turned into “CCSR is a whore who anyone can sleep with, a servant’s wife is at the end only a lowly dirty whore/slave”. Seriously, it’s YZY, what wouldn’t she do to dirty CSSR’s reputation? And back then, reputation is worth more than life to women, too. 

I do, however, agree that it didn’t make sense they didn’t make contingent plans or even have friends who would check in beside JFM (gods know if I’m in their situation, I’d have at least 5 different friends from different sects/rogue to check in at least every 6 months for my child’s sake). Which leads us to a very popular theory (at least in the chinese fandom) that their deaths weren’t accidents and wy being homeless for 5 years were also not an accident. Now that’s a total theory and have no definitive proof in canon beside hints that could be explained that way, but not absolute proof. Ngl I found the theory rather realistic and explains quite a few plot holes in the canon novel, but in the end it wasn’t confirmed by the author, so it’s still just a theory. 

Tbh while I was reading the novel I thought we were going to find out CSSR and WCZ dying wasn't an accident at all because of how weird it was for them to not have a contingency plan. Like I always thought it would at least have been an ambush and they stashed him somewhere they thought would be safe. (At one point at yzy speaking about cssr like that i was like 'oh shit she had them killed') or that they were paying for someone to take care of him but when they died he got the boot.

Yeah, I did too for a while. But I guess... no? I guess they just did not have a plan for their young son in case anything happened to them beyond maybe “JFM will find him probably”. Like, I feel like it would’ve come up at some point if their deaths were super suspicious and not just caused by bad luck or lack of skill, but it never does.

[wangxianhugs]

If JC was indeed a honorable man, whose by honor bound couldn’t not taking revenge on his parents’ (supposed) killers, while these killers saved his life, his parents’ corpes, and the future of his clan (life of the young sect leader/last 2 out of 3 survivors of the sect, zidian), he should have killed them, then committed suicide. That’s the only way he can have his revenge and still be honorable. If he won’t repay the life debt, then he shouldn’t have accepted it (saving his life) and end his life after he finished with his revenge. Like, there is no other way for him to kill the wens remnants and remains righteous. But of course he came from a rich bloodline so all these don’t apply and he would do whatever he likes. 

Honestly sometimes I feel like people who read this book didn’t realize the majority of us would be commoners if put in mdzs society, or at most disciples, who would be the most affected by rabid whip-welding sect leader who gave zero shit about common folks who paid for their protections. Like instead of thinking about JC as uwu babe, think if you can handle someone like that being your direct boss, or your politician whatever. Either way it’s a horrible situation to be in, because let’s be honest what can he do beside whipping around screaming and licking JGS boots?  

Leaving literally everything aside about how badly JC treats WWX, how he nearly strangles him, how he blames him for his parents deaths, how he treats a child like a dog, how he abandons WWX when WWX needs him the most, as his only family…. leaving all that aside I just want ONE person to explain to me how they can justify JC’s enormous moral failing in being willing to let actual innocent people die because it is what the others want. Not only was he okay with it, he would not hesitate to do it himself, hell he was ready to do it himself when he used Zidian to attack an unconscious Wen Ning, whom he quite literally owed his life to.

Anyone can interpret JC’s personal relationship with WWX however they want. You can bromance the heck out of it, ship it, idealize the best aspects of it (?) while you ignore the very real, abusive, horrible aspects of his character. Do I think JC has always hated WWX? No. I wholly believe JC loves WWX. But the ability to love someone does not make you a good person. The ability to love, at all, does not make up for your moral failings. It does not excuse JC, at best, standing by and watching as hundreds of innocent people are killed (the Wen remnants WWX saved were not the only ones hunted and killed for no other reason than bearing a now bad name) despite having both the position and the power to object it, to stop it, to seek another way, and at worst, doing the killing himself.

Someone with conscience, someone who is good, someone who is just, would never be okay with any of this. If JC had an ounce of Wei Ying’s moral compass*, (or Mianmian’s balls) he would have taken all of the Wen remnants back to Lotus Pier, tell the Jin clan that they are under his protection and he would have his brother, Wei Wuxian in all his righteous glory, standing beside him. The twin prides of Yunmeng truly living up to the unbound, unapologetic spirit of the Jiang clan (with the freaking Hanguang Jun quite possibly standing beside WWX as well) and no one would dare move against them for a handful of grannies and uncles and one turnip of a child. 

*what irony that WWX builds an actual compass the whole cultivation world uses despite hating his guts

Oh, yeah. You can argue JC’s feelings towards WWX all day long, you can even try to justify his treatment of WWX if you really want to (maybe don’t, though), but you cannot justify the fact that JC knowingly let fifty innocent people die despite knowing they were innocent and despite the other major sect leaders clearly being willing to let them off with evidence that they weren’t on WRH’s side (which JC had) without even trying to save them. The best you can say about JC’s actions there is that maybe he was worried about what would happen to his own sect if he spoke up, but given that one of the other three great sects was only arguing against helping them because they thought they were on WRH’s side and another was actively arguing in their favour at first plus the fact that JC knowingly and willingly led the slaughter of these innocents even that much benefit of the doubt doesn’t really hold any water. JC didn’t even just stand back and watch them die, he actively killed them himself, knowing all the while that they were innocent and that he owed them his life and the existence of his sect, when helping them would only have cost a bit of time and effort. There is no justification for that.

#jc #jiang cheng #mdzs

[wangxianhugs]

I’ve been dabbled a bit over there, and there is a pretty strong opposite between the jiang (mostly jc and yzd) fan and antifan too. I’d say it’s about 50/50 between “reconcilation/jc did nothing wrong” and “wwx kill/leave jc/the whole jiang family die/bearing extremely misfortune/humiliated/tortured to death (usually by the Wen main sect or by the crowd pressure like wwx’s 1st life), especially if they attacked lwj”. 

They actually have a tagging system that’s basically “anti-character” and “not friendly toward (ex: jiang sect)” that are very useful to find good fics that treat the jiang clan canonically, or in some cases, a bit of anti/conspiracy-like. Fun thing is, while most “anti-jc” fics usually go full anti jiang clan, when I filtered by “anti-jyl”, it usually go together with anti-wwx and anti-lwj so that’s an interesting tidbit. They have these anti tag for all chars/clans though, so it’s not pointing out jiang sect especially, but anti-jc/jiang sect have a quite steady stream of well-written, in-character fics that cover everything from rebirth, time travel, fix it, OOC-change-the-story etc. Think the only one not having these tag was the Jin clan, cause most stories hate them anyway lol .

I’m currently reading a fun fic in which jc had been returned back to pre-cloud recess day 3 times in a round after he lived out his whole life (read: a few years after sunshot campaign at most) and still couldn’t managed to fix what went wrong (uphold his family motto, realize his parents loved him, increase the fucking defense of Lotus Pier, make peace of the fact wwx is an once-in-a-few-generations genius and there is no shame to losing to him, or that a sect leader needs not be the strongest, but one who can see and keep talents (ex: NHS), or even not letting his sister marry into the mess that’s Jin sect with JGY still there). Ngl, at this point I wanna throw up whenever I see “how much RICE did you ATE from JIANG SECT” or “tofu heart knife mouth”... like yo live in the real world and you’ll see how far that knife mouth get you, most likely a knife in the back because you’re such a bitch :v Even Mian Mian, once a house slave, needs only take off the house cloak to leave her sect (in CQL it’s Jin sect so hey big one), what tf does jc think the jiang sect is, counting rice??? Does he have no shame??? What was I talking about, of course not =.=!~ 

now i wanna know how chn fandom sees wwx&jc's relationship like is reconciliation popular in just eng fandom or both

Y’know, I kind of wonder that too. I’ve been told the Chinese fandom is less... rabid? about JC? So I assume it’s less of a thing over there, but I genuinely have no idea.

#jc #jiang family #mdzs

[wangxianhugs]

Okay so like...I just want to point out that “strong will” and “hardworking” are not really JYL’s traits? At least there is no canonically supported evidence for them... Bravery is doubtable, because the only instance was Phoenix mountain and if she didn’t speak up when Jiang sect’s education/honor was insulted, that would be cowardly and a great shame on her sect. She was defending her sect as is the duty of any sect member, especially the daughter of the sect leader, not really WWX. If it was about WWX, it wouldn’t take that long for her to speak up only when Jiang sect’s education was brought into the question. In short, her action was normal and expected, not brave. Hard working.....if you count cooking soup for her brothers maybe twice a day at most is hard working....otherwise when had she ever done anything useful?

Also, JYL didn’t act like what’s expected of her position at all??? At least not as a noble lady of a great sect. She’s a good woman, sure, and her upbringing didn’t do her any favors as far as expectations of a noble lady back then. Mind you, I mainly blame JFM and YZD for this neglection, not JYL, but she is simply not suitable as a Sect Lady.

 It is true that a woman back then was expected to be obedient and such, but a Sect Lady is the mistress of the Sect, who oversees all the inner workings of the sect (or at least the main line), control resources distribution/finance within the main line, developing and maintaining diplomatic relationships with other Sect Ladies/noble ladies, sometimes taking control when the sect leader was unavailable, and finally raising children properly. These were the expectation of any legal wife of a head of house back then. 

Now look at JYL canon information. She was described as being either in the kitchen, ancestral hall, or her own bedroom. So she didn’t help out with sect’s daily goings, and most likely was not taught how to because let’s be honest, she’s almost invisible to both her parents, and YZD ability to manage a household is...questionable. 

Her talent, as far as the novel, was...cooking? Which is useless for a sect lady for obvious reason. Her cultivation is weak, so she couldn’t take control/protect the sect by fighting. Her ability to read people led to her marrying into the Jin sect despite the sect leader trying to kill her brother, and promptly became a sacrifice for infighting between JGY/JZX/JGS so I don’t even want to talk about it. What about diplomatic ability, and at the very least, common sense??? A few things came to mind: 

- No mention of close female friendships (which was expected as the foundation for future after-marriage relationship), even YZD had Madam Jin. Like mentioned, she barely went out so how could she learn and cultivate the diplomatic abilities she need for the position?

- She gave soup to a fierce corpes who, by common knowledge, couldn’t eat it. Is this an attempt on putting salt over the wound, or simply just being naive?? Also, she knew WWX was holing up in the Burial Mound of all place, and she gave him...soup??? No money, no clothes/household items, no non-perishable food, no medicine, just...soup??? Wtf does her soup do? Does it have super power or what? Either she had no common sense/no household management skill or she simply didn’t care at all, and wearing wedding clothes was only an act to keep WWX on Jiang’s side. 

- She wear wedding robes, before the wedding, to visit a non-blood related martial brother (I...I can’t even. If the Jin sect found out, whether she could still marry in is a big question. Where was her common sense??? Not to mention WWX was of similar age, single, and was once doubted by her mil to have intentions towards her). Add to that, it was mentioned “throwing flowers toward beautiful women/men as an admiration act was a tradition”, and throughout the novel we saw that’s only for ROMANTIC interest. So what was she doing throwing flowers to her brother and not-blood-related/very-marriageable martial brother??? Remember WWX was not officially adopted, and marrying a talented disciple to the sect leader daughter was considered very appropriate back then. 

- She married a dude who insulted her before the heirs/young generation, who was happy to have the marriage called off. Fine, this one I can say it’s for the financial/diplomatic support of Jin sect toward Jiang sect, or maybe JZX groveled a lot. 

- She secretly gave soup to her former fiancé, by SNEAKING INTO HIS TENT. (Does...does she have no shame??? no common sense??? none at all??? back then, no good, respected noble woman would ever do that. She was lucky JZX wanted to marry her later, otherwise she would have a hard time finding a suitable partner because others would see that as trying to seduce a former finance, which is a shameless action)

- She let her marital brother, again, non-blood related, gave name to her son before she was even married. Which begs the question if she had him before the wedding, but that’s more speculation. But back then the naming thing is for elders/grandparents, sometimes not even the parents get to name their child. This alone would make others speculate if, maybe, WWX is actually the father and not JZX??? Otherwise why would an outsider had the right to name that child? Remember, marital brother is not brother, they can still marry in the eyes of the society. 

Again, I have to say, I don’t hate JYL. She was probably the best she can be in her upbringing, and I blame her parents for the majority of her actions. She was a normal, good woman, and would likely have a long, happy marriage if she married into a cleaner sect (read: Lans, Nies, or even Jiang sect before YZD, or non-great sects) with less intense/dirty infighting, and especially if she marries a second or third sons. Her biggest flaws, I guess, was that she was simply not raised properly as a noble lady should be, ie not taught cultivation/diplomacy/household management/common sense etc. All of which should be covered by YZD, but we can see how great a job she did. Which is, not at all. 

Last, I once read in a fic about JYL’s education by her parents, which I have to agree: “Was she (YZD) helping the Jiang sect raising their main line only daughter, or was she helping the Jin sect raising a future maid/sacrifice?”

I don’t think it’s that concerning a lot of JC’s requirements fit JYL just because a lot of that is what was expected for a “proper lady” to act like. Notice how he doesn’t have JYL’s other traits listed, like bravery, strong will, hardworking. I think he just wanted a stereotypical “seen but not heard” woman to marry and we know that while JYL acts like what’s expected of her position, she does not fit that “seen but not heard” mold at all as we saw with Phoenix Mountain and distracting YZY.

Good point, and that’s kind of why I’m pretty sure it’s just a coincidence that JC’s requirements match up with JYL. Although I will say that it would not surprise me if JC didn’t realize that JYL didn’t fit the “seen but not heard” thing, he doesn’t seem to pay attention to anything about the people around him that doesn’t suit him.

#jyl #jiang family #jfm what the fuck did you do letting your wife raising your daughter like that #yzd #mdzs #i feel bad for jyl tbh #she wasn't a bad person #but like #her education really failed #she will be great as a normal wife #but sect lady #yeah no #cant blame jzx for not wanting to marry her at first ngl #he was at least powerful as a cultivator and future sect leader #why would he want someone who is absolutely average in everything

[wangxianhugs]

Okay I’m sorry for keeping reblogging, but like to the anonymous, I can see why wwx brushed it over and not wanting to talk to jc about these old stuffs... You can’t talk to someone who refuse to listen. The only thing coming from discussing these things with jc will be a never ending cycle of he said she said and “do you know how much rice you eat from our family???? (nevermind the sect has the duty to house and feed the disciples in exchange for disciples helped the sect become stronger and fight in battle)”. Like, I know people like JC, that’s why I hate him so much. People like that just won’t see logics or anything you say that they don’t like. The only thing to do is to walk away and DO NOT ENGAGE. Don’t give them more ammunition, don’t give them a chance to guilt trip you, don’t let their temper overwhelms your rightful hurts, WALK THE FUCK AWAY. At that point, I think wwx was just too tired to deal with the emotional explosion that is jc’s hair-triggering temper and self-righteousness. Let it go was literally the less damaging way to deal with jc, with the next step is going full no contact. There are battles that are not meant to be fought, because the cost of winning is too expensive and winning is not worth it. 

sometimes the way wei wuxian deals with jiang cheng lowkey enrages me. "let's not talk" "that was the past" you've known him since you were very tiny small and if you can't see that jiang cheng needs someone to tell him they love him until he cries to feel safe i can't help you" - he's 36 fucking years old and an abusive shit wwx owes him Nothing

Here’s the thing with the argument that WWX should “know” that JC needs to be told he’s loved: JC SURE AS FUCK DOESN’T KNOW WWX NEEDS TO BE TOLD HE’S LOVED! HE’S NEVER DONE IT! IN FACT HE’S DONE THE EXACT OPPOSITE THROUGHOUT THEIR LIVES! And WWX in this scene is giving JC all the comfort he can; he’s essentially telling JC he’s forgiven him and he doesn’t hate him, and that is already more than he has to do and more than JC deserves. WWX is done sacrificing his own comfort and happiness for JC, he is not going to coddle him over JC finally realizing that WWX gave up everything for him and he gave up nothing for WWX.

And you know what? Let’s give JC some credit here. He knows he has no right to demand comfort from WWX! He acknowledges how unfair and pathetic it is that he’s demanding that the person he’s abused and tried to murder and betrayed comfort him because he’s finally realized how awful he’s been! Stans whining about how JC deserves to be fussed over in this scene are going against JC’s own realization and desires! Like, imagine being so wrapped up in your own fanon image of a character that you ignore that same character growing and realizing he has no right to demand love from someone he’s never offered it to. Imagine that.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #wwx #wei wuxian #jiang family

[wangxianhugs]

There is also a fact that after a certain age (aka teenager years), it’s no longer socially acceptable to lash out because one has so many feelings, especially one who holds a position of power. He was 35 or sth in canon, and been a sect leader for 13 years - there is no reason to accept his “lashing out” anymore, especially in public. 

Even NMJ, well-known for his temper and later influenced by the dao spirit, didn’t lash out at those weaker than him, instead demand for fair battles/challenges. That’s what I’d called hot-tempered, personality wise.

JC, on the other hand, is just like his mother, has zero self control and just want to blow shit up and abuse weaker folks because they have a tiny smitty bit of negative thoughts, or ppl didn’t do what they want exactly as they want it no matter if it’s right or not. That’s the epitome of selfishness and childish behaviors,  like children throwing tantrums in the middle of the supermarket because mom wouldn’t buy me cake! 

WWX and JC really handle their emotions differently. JC is quick to feel defensive and his easy to irritate personality turned into a hair trigger temperament. He misplaces his anger and takes it out on the easiest targets (low leveled demonic cultivators, people with the name Wen, WWX) but he never stops to reflect on his actions.

WWX meanwhile almost shuts down his negative emotions. His whole thing is trying to focus on the good over the bad. Even when he should rightfully be upset, he doesn’t think he’s allowed to react beyond a certain point. The only time he lets himself react properly is in anger for someone else getting targeted.

JC misplaces his negative emotions onto people who don’t deserve it, while WWX internalizes his and directs them onto himself.

Also, JC calculates who he can and cannot lose his temper at. Note that the novel switches to his POV at Dafan Mountain to show him thinking about how LWJ is the powerful brother of a sect leader (read: someone who people will get angry at JC for targeting and who could kick JC’s ass) and then JC backs off, and how JC doesn’t try to do anything about XY (who is under JGS’s protection) even though he’s built his entire reputation around killing any demonic cultivator he finds. Meanwhile when WWX loses it he loses it, he’s lashing out at anyone and anything that gets close to him without even being fully aware he’s doing it. In other words JC holds onto his anger and directs it at the first safe target; WWX supresses and internalizes his anger until it’s too much for him to contain, at which point it all boils over explosively (and even that only happens when he’s not given enough time between incidents to calm down and settle that anger).

#mdzs #jiang family #jiang cheng

[wangxianhugs]

Just want to add that in some eras of ancient china, it’s literally a rule that a father was supposed to hold their grandchildren, not their sons. Something about spoiling the children or similar, I don’t remember exactly, but fathers back then were expected to be strict and not outwardly emotional toward their sons. There is also a saying, loosely translated, that you raise your sons in rags/hard conditions and raise your daughter in riches, because sons need to learn how to deal with the hard way of life and become strong mentally/physically, while daughters need only marry well and should be protected by their husbands for the rest of their lives, so they can afford to be fragile. So like, everything JFM did, even if he appeared to favor WWX, was in fact the normal, usual way of raising sons, especially first born back in ancient china, because the mantra back then was spare the rod, spoil the child, especially with heirs. 

*ahem* Because I saw a post that is severely testing my “do not start fights on other people’s posts” resolve: JFM telling JC that trying to let his allies’ children DIE to avoid something that anyone with half a brain could see was inevitable EITHER WAY and then yelling about how saving their lives was a terrible idea is just a little fucked up and not at all appropriate behaviour for a future sect leader is not going to fuck up JC’s self-esteem (and if it does clearly he needs to be taken down a few pegs for the sake of Yunmeng as a whole), nor is it some horrible act of abuse, and YZY screaming about how JFM is being a horrible father is not the correct reaction to have even setting aside the fact that she was the one who caused any potential damage to JC’s self-esteem by constantly treating him like a useless brat. JFM was not a bad father to JC in his own right, the only thing he did wrong was not stopping YZY and regardless of what someone who clearly spends most of her time trying to hurt her family says he does not hate JC or like WWX better. There is no evidence that JFM has ever been unfair to JC or scolded him for things that were not his fault; when we see JFM scold JC it’s for things that are genuinely not appropriate, like kicking an orphan out of his room and threatening to set his worse fear on him or the aforementioned “how dare you not let our allies’ heirs die” situation. The closest the actual text of the novel comes to saying JFM was neglectful is saying that at the age of nine JC had only been picked up a handful of times, which says exactly nothing given a) not all parents pick their children up after infancy (and I seriously doubt JFM never picked JC up as a literal baby) and b) there’s nothing suggesting JFM picked anyone up on a regular basis (remember that JC’s little jealous moment is spurred by JFM picking WWX up once when the poor kid is scared half to death on his first day in Lotus Pier with no mention of JFM ever picking WWX up again or ever picking JYL up period); everything else in the novel involving the claim that JFM was openly preferential (towards WWX, at least; I’d say there’s plenty of evidence for him being preferential towards JC) either comes directly from YZY or can very easily be explained as assumption based on YZY’s words due to lack of evidence (for example JC complaining that JFM would never rush all the way to another sect for him when there’s no evidence that there has ever been a situation where JFM might have had to do so). Claiming that JFM was cruel or abusive towards JC or ever unfair to him is just buying into the claims of a woman who is openly and explicitly verbally abusive towards her husband and children and verbally and physically abusive towards her husband’s ward as she tries to turn her children against their father, and holds no basis in the actual text. Can we please stop taking the words of the most openly abusive character in the entire novel at face value?

#mdz #mo dao zu shi #jiang family #jiang clan #jc #jfm

[wangxianhugs]

Mhmm, could it be that unlike other fandoms, mdzs has a complete set of OOC fanon chars that widely differ from canon char’s personalities? Like in other fandoms, it’s diverse AUs and canon-fix etc, but generally the chars’ personalities keep fairly close to canon, and if there is a big difference it would be tagged OOC or has a very strong divergence that could lead to it. 

In mdzs, I have seen almost all chars have multiple distinct, almost opposite interpretations that are widely accepted by groups of fans instead of fic-based like other fandoms. For example, for WWX alone, I’d seen at least 10 different interpretations of him with various differences in attitude/political understanding/base personality/understanding of the world/etc. And that’s only from non-bashing fics that I feel are well-written and canon-conforming. The interpretations remain the same in each author’s various stories/series, and supported by a group of readers, so rather than OOC, it’s more like how they feel/understand the character in canon. That’s an interesting phenomenon that I rarely seen in any other fandoms, and I’ve been reading fics for >10 years. 

It almost feel like mdzs is a big mirror world and everyone sees what they want/believe in the chars instead of a more unified understanding of canon characters’ personalities. 

(Except JGS, he’s a piece of shit apparently, though I did see one where he returned in time and adopted wei ying caused he knew how valuable he would be in the future. Which in all honesty is not OOC, but kinda weird to see JGS all spoiling and giving WY everything he ever needs :V) 

I agree about some fanon completely disregarding canon but I think it's in really poor taste to be dismissive of fic authors.

It’s... not dismissive though? I’m literally writing an AU where WWX and JZX are brothers, I’d have to be a pretty massive hypocrite to dismiss any fic that doesn’t keep to canon. It’s just an interesting thing in this fandom, the extent to which fanon as it appears in fic has moved away from canon. It’s an observation, not an indictment; I wish it was less of a thing, but it’s still a thing that people are doing for fun and I really don’t have much of an opinion on it beyond wishing it was easier to avoid. It’s like saying that pointing out how like a solid quarter of the fics in the Les Mis archive on Ao3 are modern AUs is dismissing the value of modern AUs, that’s just not what’s being said.

(Also yes a quarter of the Les Mis fics on Ao3 are modern AUs and I find that delightful what no I haven’t just been looking at the tag breakdowns on the Les Mis page because I’m not letting myself actually read the fics until I finish the novel.)

#mdzs

[wangxianhugs]

There is a difference between "not doing anything to help" and "actively lead a siege against weak, elderly people whose leaders he owned a life debt to yet voluntarily watched them being tortured and killed, in addition to his former marital brother/biggest contributor for the Jiang sect's achievements in the campaign/one who took revenge on his parent's murderers in his place". Oh right, there is also not telling the whole cultivation world that your supposedly marital brother want to become enemy to everyone when he said he just leave jiang sect. Funny how things work, huh?

Yes the Jiang sect may had been weak at that time, but even the Lans and Nies did ask what "favor" he owned them. (Not sure if favor is the right word cause different language but oh well). He only needed to say "yeah they saved 2/3 of the last Jiang sect members (jc and wwx), and collected my parents corpses" and that is enough to get the wq folks to be part of the jiang sect war spoils. From then, he can just leave them alone, maybe put them in a small village somewhere, then ignore them for the rest of his life. Problem solved.

Why do you think jc didn't tell people what favor he owned them??? Because for many ancient asian cultures, especially ones influenced by china, that's a very, very big favour to save their dead parents corpes and helped bury them, big enough that it's worth selling oneself into perpetual slavery to repay. If anyone knows such a sect leader ignore and even kill those who they owned such a debt, it's great shame to the sect, and no one would ever want to work with or trust the jiang sect again. That is what would truly destroyed the jiang sect, because back then, it was said sth like "the first and foremost in all good deeds is to respect/honored/obey one's parents (loosely translated)", and making sure they are buried properly was one of the most important parts. To be seen as not following that idea was a serious enough issue that could topple a king's ruling, let alone a sect leader.

And like, for those who says jiang sect was too weak to even speak about that. Seriously? Did anyone read the part where wwx with his undead army was one of, if not the most important factor, for victory against the wens?

If with that kind of war hero in their sect, the jiang still couldn't earn the 50 elderly and weak wen remnants... i am sorry but that is absolute undeniable proof that jc is shit at being a sect leader. Like what? How? And yet they got enough spoils to become a great sect again, and even managed to last at least 13-15 years more as a great or at least a big sect.

What does that mean? That means jc purposely hide the debt he owned so that he didn't have to save them, in order to prevent loss of any spoils that would be needed to save the wens (should be very minimal considering the situation), and to help the jins using the wens remnants to kill wwx who had surpassed jc in fame and cultivation. That way, he got both the more share of spoils, wipe out wwx who was just better than him, and got big sugar daddy jgs' s notice (ew).

Honestly, the thing i hate most about jc is how he is, like an old chinese saying, "being a prostitute and yet want to build a temple to honored their virginity/purity". Which means he does evil things for power, and yet act like he is oh so innocent, why would wwx left him (because he had to repay the great favor which jc owned to wq/wn), why would wwx not want to talk/meet him (you led a fucking siege and killed him wtf), why would wwx killed his sister and bro in law (why tf would she ran into a battlefiled and they both demanded wwx to lower his weapon while surrounded by people eagerly try to kill him). Like, JGY and XY did a lot of evil deeds, but at least they know they are villians and don't act like they are innocent. If one chose to be evil, at least be willingly to accept the consequences and not pretend like the whole world wronged them, that's repulsive and disgusting.

I've been told by Chinese friends that JC's actions with the Wen's were the appropriate reaction, as it would be considered a crime against his family to take in the people that belonged to the same sect that killed them? (And they said that this is why LWJ couldn't either, since the Wen's destroyed the CR.) Assuming this is all complete context, I'm wondering if JC might be a warning story about the technically right thing that's actually very wrong (and LWJ taking in LSZ a parallel).

Makes sense. I have no idea what would or wouldn’t be considered an appropriate reaction in this case; my Western brain is saying that a life debt and also the presence of his brother should really cancel out the “people related to these people killed my parents” thing but that is a Western perspective so doesn’t really have an input here. Maybe it works the same in ancient China, maybe it doesn’t, I genuinely do not know and I’m not going to speculate. But I like the idea of it being a cautionary tale about doing things based entirely on tradition or even law without considering the context; “yes, theoretically this was the right call but in practice it was morally fucked”, that sort of thing. JC’s rigid adherence to the law of vengeance against LWJ’s compassion towards the innocent or something.

#mdzs #grapehate #jc #jiang cheng

[wangxianhugs]

I just wanna say thank you and i love you to everyone of you guys who tag their stuffs properly on ao3/tumblr/lofter/etc so that no one will accidentally stumble into their favorite char's anti-things. We all like what/who we like and whether I agree with you guys' opinions or not, I appreciate the respect we share by tagging stuffs to avoid unnecessary wars and unwanted ships/contents. Thanks a lot, guys <3

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi

[wangxianhugs]

Wasn't it mentioned that WRH rather focusing on cultivating and getting stronger than leading his own sect? Or was it fanon? How could someone obsessed with power and strength interested in JC out of everyone tbh... like there are so many choices either from the older generation, JFM, LQR, LQH, Wei papa, CSSR, even madam Jin, or if he prefer younger, LWJ, LXC, WWC, NMJ are all available choices...if he likes brain there are also NHS and JGS (ew), if he prefer a hint of incest, even WQ, WN, JGY will do. What does JC has that could make WRH like him more than literally everyone else? There is a reason why he is single and in the blacklist of every matchmaker, and saying WRH out of everyone taking interest in him is rather...weird...

twitter is a hellhole i just found someone that thinks wwx is selfish and irredeemable and their otp is Jiang Cheng and Wen fucking Ruohan

...Sure. Why not. Honestly they deserve each other.

#honestly i just think wrh wasn't blind #oh wait there is also the coremelting dude #so like there are a shit ton of options #why go for someone who has literally no strong point beside being insanely jealous and rank-obsessed #i rather see jfm with wrh ngl #wait i like that #fuck here i go with another rare pair #jfm as mister wen anyone? or wrh complain with cssr how their husdbands are such adorable bros but can u keep ur hubby abit away from mine #yes yes i want that

[wangxianhugs]

I blame JGY for a lot of things, he did commit many crimes, but this is the only thing he's perfectly innocent and actual victim here. Beside telling JGY at the worst of time and then making a surprise pikachu face when he didn't want to completely destroy his life and even risking a murder from Qin sect leader for the damages he would have done on the poor man/his wife/his kinda daughter/the entire Qin family's honor, or from JGS to stop the truth from being known.

There are many things she could have done to prevent the marriage, including but not limited to: keep them away from the beginning, find a better marriage candidate (financial/political/talents/looks wise, since JGY was son of a prostitute with a middle level cultivation and no real position at Jin sect), making up reasons why they should not be married (as a sect lady she should at least be able to come up with a good story, even if she has to destroyed JGY reputation on her way), even creating scenarios where Qin Su had to marry someone of her choosing (ancient china had ridiculous standard on how easily a man can dirty a woman reputation and had to marry her; if she is careful outsiders don't even need to know at all), or at her most desperate, try to assassinate JGY. Yes, many of these things aren't nice to do, but if she's willing enough, no one might even need to know her secret and they still won't get married. She did nothing, and expected JGY to sacrifice everything for her honor? Seriously? She is a sect lady, act like one for once in her life, man.

hey, c'mon! Mdm Qin was perhaps not being /fair/, but for good reasons. from her pov, she was saving jgy from the terrible deed of marrying his own sis, but couldn't make herself destroy the family she kept silent for so long for by telling Qin Su or the dad. Maybe it'd ostracize jgy, but it gave him a choice to either get in hot water (remember, it wasnt guaranteed to get him kicked out) or MARRY HIS OWN SIS. How was she to know they had already had sex or that he was such a power-hungry ass?

Here’s the thing. She “tried to save” JGY by waiting until the last possible moment and then telling just him and no one else and then when it became clear that he wasn’t going to do anything she... didn’t say a word to anyone else. From her POV I’d bet she was saving herself from the pain of having to tell her family the truth by dumping that responsibility on JGY. And bear in mind, ostracism for JGY means losing literally everything. Everything he has comes from JGS. If he airs JGS’s dirty laundry in public to get out of this situation JGS would destroy him! You say “get in hot water” like it would be a slap on the wrist; JGY was already barely clinging to respectability, coming clean that he’d almost married his half-sister and in doing so telling the world that JGS raped his subordinate’s wife... well, maybe it wasn’t guaranteed that it would get him kicked out, but I certainly wouldn’t take that bet. I’m not saying he handled it well, but it’s not as simple as him being a “power-hungry ass”. JGY wrapped so much of his identity up in becoming respectable and never quite managed it even as Chief Cultivator, of course he was too scared to tell everyone the truth or didn’t think he could without losing everything. Not to mention with the pregnancy he and QS would both be ruined, what with the double whammy of having premarital sex and committing incest; Madam Qin didn’t know about that, but I feel it should be taken into account when considering why JGY didn’t call off the wedding. And of course, another important point; JGS did put in work to set this up and also doesn’t want to drive away Madam Qin’s husband so he wouldn’t let JGY drop the betrothal for no reason, and if JGY told the truth JGS would flat-out deny it. People might believe it, but they’d let JGS save face and pretend it’s bullshit and now JGY is being accused of slander, whoops.

Madam Qin waited, is the thing I think you’re forgetting. When QS and JGY first started showing interest in each other, she said nothing. When they started courting, she said nothing. When JGY asked her husband for QS’s hand, she said nothing. I’m not saying it would have been easy, but I am saying she had so many better opportunities than “wait until the engagement has been set for long enough that QS got pregnant and had been pregnant long enough that JGY knew she was pregnant before saying a word and then go to JGY and not her own daughter or her husband or even send an anonymous letter to JGS”. Hell, if she’d gotten involved early enough she wouldn’t even have necessarily had to tell the truth; she could’ve dissuaded QS from spending time with JGY or talked to her husband and convinced him to refuse the engagement, but... she didn’t. She went to the person with the least power to change the situation and the most to lose if the truth came out and did nothing to help him come up with a solution then when he unsurprisingly did nothing she just... let the wedding happen with a bit of handwringing instead of trying something else. Why did she think going to the guy whose entire life relies on him not pissing off JGS and telling him to call off the wedding that JGS put a fair amount of work into arranging with the only reason she’d offered him being “JGS raped me and so that’s your sister” (a very fair reason but also Not Great to offer as the only explanation he can offer others given again literally everything JGY has relies on him not pissing off JGS) was the best option? Even if JGY had come clean and called off the wedding, Madam Qin went for the option that would’ve involved a man who as far as she knew was genuinely good and kind and who had never done anything to hurt her or her family ruining himself. I just... I have to be honest, I kind of get the sense that she went to JGY and no one else even after it became clear that if she didn’t try something else the wedding would happen because as the bastard son of a whore his reputation and life were expendable to her in a way no one else involved in the situation was. She really did just dump this on the one person involved in the situation who absolutely could not weather the storm that the revelation would stir up and left. Can we really blame JGY for deciding that the best (or at least most possible) solution was to keep quiet and go through with the marriage with the intention of never touching QS again? I’m not saying he did everything right, in fact he did a lot of things extremely wrong, but in regards to just going through with the marriage he... really didn’t have a better option.

And at the end of the day... she didn’t have to give up on stopping the marriage when JGY did nothing. That was a choice she made, to dump the full responsibility for stopping the situation onto JGY and then just wash her hands of it and blame JGY entirely for the marriage going through despite not doing anything herself after telling JGY. I’m sure it was a difficult choice, but it was still a choice.

#jin guangyao #mdzs #madam qin

[wangxianhugs]

Personally I think Wwx knew that:

1. JL needs outside support to remain Jin sect leader, but wwx himself doesn't wield that type of political power (he is powerful in his own right but has little interest in politics and just want to live a calm, peaceful life with lwj after such turbulent 1st life), and JC is the only one left that would not try to grab the power to himself.

2. JC, due to blood relations, does care about JL and will indeed be hurt if JL try to talk like JC is "outsider" (which he is to the Jin sect) but after all they are family. I have no hope on JC understanding the different between emotions and correct political reactions as seen in his relationship with wwx, so I can see why he wouldn't accept that JL was standing from a political pov aka non-Jin shouldn't be pulled into Jin sect issues and how that could affect JC badly. In short, wwx saw a potential relationship-breaking issue that mimics his failed relationship with JC and took steps to prevent it.

3. JL needs to learn how to talk without offending others, as an adult and a sect leader. It's cute when you being tsundere or sth when you are a teenager, but when he grows up, it's rude and bad manners. There is no one left who could have teach JL that, so wwx naturally took the responsibility as the only remaining uncle.

What do you think of WWX trying to get JL to not shove JC to the side while he adjusts to being a too young sect leader?

Hm... I imagine WWX didn’t want JL to lose the only remaining person who was around while he was growing up, and probably didn’t want JC to lose his nephew either. But honestly I don’t really remember what happens in that extra, so I’m not sure.

#mdzs #wei wuxian #jc #jiang cheng #jin ling