#Danny had both scenarios happen to him lol | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

tieronecrush · 1 year

Note

I have a request but it’s also infideltiy so I understand if you ignore this lol.

I’ve been thinking lately about a scenario where reader and Joel have been separated since the outbreak for a few years, reader starts dating some guy in the QZ she’s at, joel shows up and they reunite. Joel really tries to stay away and respect her relationship but they’re both too emotional and horny to resist. I really do love passionate reuinion sex tho!!!!

thank you so much for your request lovely nonnie! i switched it up just a lil bit to make the reader the one who shows up with her bf to boston where joel already is - hope that’s okay!!

muscle memory

joel miller x f!reader

rating: E (18+ only, MDNI)

word count: 6.5k

summary: when you flee the baltimore QZ to head to boston with your boyfriend and others, the last person you expect to see is joel miller. you had mourned him for years, having thought your last partner was lost to you forever. when the two of you start smuggling together, more time around each other only seems to strengthen your connection - to the point where neither of you can manage the tension anymore.

warnings: NO USE OF Y/N, no age specified, use of pet names (‘bonny’, ‘little lamb’, ‘sugar’), infidelity, previous relationship, mentions of death/loss, some angsty angst, alcohol use, mentions of drug use, fingering, oral (f receiving), unprotected p in v, cockwarming, dirty talk, praise, mild breeding kink, possessive!joel, soft!dom joel

Boston is an upgrade from Baltimore. At least in the state you left it; the Baltimore QZ had finally succumbed to Firefly occupation and FEDRA was forced out. Not that it really mattered to you, but it was another reason to add to the list. The biggest reason for your caravan up north was that your smuggling lines and connections had dried up. Like, completely. Either people found better deals or died on their journeys outside of the walls of whatever QZ they were from. You mostly dealt with Washington and Philly, both having been radio silent for weeks by the time your smuggling group made the decision to move on. You were welcoming the change; sure, the means to get there was full of uncertainty and danger, but the group you were with and your boyfriend of a few months, Danny, made you feel the slightest bit more confident trekking through the decimated country.

It’s been a few weeks since you all officially transitioned into the Boston QZ, registered under FEDRA, and having gone through your quarantine. You all settled into your government-assigned homes, you living with Danny and others grouping up to attempt to make these shabby walls feel like home.

It was easy to be with Danny. You two had known each other for years, done tons of runs together, and developed a comfortable friendship. Your relationship was born out of convenience -- after hooking up one night when you both needed to be taken care of, you stayed together. It was nice to have companionship, but it certainly wasn’t love.

You haven’t felt that way since Joel.

Joel Miller. Your partner when the world went to shit.

The two of you were together for a couple of years, and you were planning to move in with him at the start of the new year - 2004. It was supposed to be your year. Moving in with the love of your life and his daughter that you loved as if she were your own, probably getting engaged or just eloping with him, maybe even talking about growing your little family.

You loved your life before. You mourned it for years after the outbreak happened, knowing you likely wouldn’t see any part of it again.

When Outbreak Day happened, you weren’t with Joel. You weren’t even in Austin. It was the week of your mom’s 60th birthday, and she had begged you to come up north for a visit. You were supposed to fly home on September 26th. You were supposed to surprise Joel for his own birthday.

And then your flight got canceled. Rebooked for the following day.

And everything changed.

But that was years ago, now it’s 2010. Family members were long gone, friends made along the way lost, too. You grieved as well as you could with the way the world moved now. Despite searching for any sign of Joel, or Sarah, or even his brother Tommy, you accepted your fate to be alone and settled in Baltimore.

And now, you were accepting the fate that your new home would be Boston. Seemed like a decent replacement in your mind, and hearing about the smuggling business here made you eager to get involved.

The small group that you traveled with had arranged a meeting with two of the more prolific runners in the city. You weren’t given any details besides a meeting place and time, so when that night came, you and Danny made your way into the dilapidated storage building along with your friends from Baltimore.

You glanced around at the place, attention turning to the small huffs of frustration coming from your boyfriend next to you. He was fiddling with the zipper on his jacket, the grooves stuck in the fabric. Nimble fingers worked it loose as you stood amongst everyone, Danny’s lips pressing to your hairline in a sweet thanks.

There is no way in whatever is holy, if there even is anything out there, that Joel is seeing who he thinks he’s seeing. They must be a figment of his imagination. It’s been seven years.

And then he hears that laugh. This stranger has a laugh that he would recognize anywhere.

That’s your laugh. That smile is yours, too. And when you turn towards him finally, his gaze fixed on you since you entered the room, he meets your eyes. Those eyes that made his heart sing whenever they shined with joy, made him shatter when they were filled with tears, made him completely head over heels for you.

And right now, they were making it all come rushing back. The heartbreak, the loss, the grief, the love.

A small gasp escapes your mouth when you recognize him. He was aging, that much he knew. Had some grays sprinkled into his brown hair, his beard was just as patchy as it had been before. He had harsher lines on his face, the world wearing him down much quicker than it would if the outbreak never happened — if he never knew what loss was like.

You’re taking inventory of all of his changes, and he notices similar ones in you. Your hair is longer, even pulled back he can tell it’s inches past where you normally would keep it. There’s the faintest wrinkles next to your eyes, soft smile lines near your lips. Signs that you stayed light in the world of darkness. That made the pain in his chest lessen just the smallest amount.

He keeps checking that you’re still there during the entire meeting. Tess does the talking, some grumbles of rules coming from him, but he’s thankful that she’s taken the lead ‘cause he doesn’t know if he could get more than a handful of words out at a time. With arms crossed over his chest, he pinches his bicep as he glances at you again, assuring himself that he isn’t dreaming or having a bad trip from those pills he takes.

The rest of the meeting goes by quickly, plans are made for the next few runs to integrate the newest additions. He stays back, hoping that you would do the same. There was no way that he wasn’t going to talk to you; he’d run after you if you left.

Luckily for him, you had understood the subliminal messages in the short bits of eye contact he made with you.

The guy that was with you stayed, too, but he stood near the exit while you stepped closer to Joel.

With you right in front of him, he gave himself another quick pinch before clearing his throat. Just when he was about to break the growing awkward tension in the stale air, he heard your voice crack.

“Hi.”

That’s all you say, and suddenly he can’t help the grin that quips up to the side. A hushed chuckle exhales through his mouth shortly, eyes locking with yours.

“Hey there, bonny.”

He watches your shoulders drop from their frigid position, uneasiness visibly relaxing after the greeting. He grins wider, dimple deepening in his cheek as his chest tightens from the gentle reaction he’s gotten out of you.

He still had the tiniest bit of his accent. Especially when he said that nickname. Short for bluebonnet, Texas’s wildflower, which is where the name originated from. Joel called you his wildflower, and when you asked him what kind of flower one night, he told you he only knew bluebonnets. Typical proud Texan man. Eventually, the moniker turned into ‘bonny’.

It’s a nickname you hadn’t heard since your last phone call with him, disappointment evident in his voice when you had to confess that your planned surprise wasn’t going to happen and that you would be home the next day to celebrate with him belatedly.

“‘S alright, bonny. Sarah’s already got something planned for the two of us. Promised her I’d pick up a cake on the way home from the site.”

Your stomach had toiled with anxiety that day from his sadness that you were going to be missing from his birthday and that he was just missing you. This time around, hearing that same nickname roused your nerves from the thrill that it zipped down your spine, the sound of his voice around the words tingling in your ears.

The two of you make introductions to your respective tag-alongs, Joel to Danny and you to Tess. Greetings were passed and conversation flowed, the two of you skating around your history with company present, only divulging necessary details. You two dated before. That was it. They didn’t need to know how long, how serious, how you mourned the loss of him and the life you two built together.

Ignoring the past in conversation was easy. Ignoring the physical pull you felt towards him was more of a challenge. Heat crawls up your back and settles on the nape of your neck, tongue poking out to wet your lips every few moments. Fingertips itch to touch his skin, to trace the lines on his palms, and to brush over the scar on the right side of his face. One he didn’t have with you, and you wanted to know what it was from.

You wanted to know a lot from him. What these last seven years looked like for him. Once the conversation died down naturally, you faced Joel and asked him gently the first of the two most pressing questions you wanted answered.

“Where’s Tommy? Guessin’ the two of you are still glued to each other like you were back then,” you tack on a light laugh to your query, feeling the rush of panic as you realize that these answers you were wanting might not be answers that you want to hear. A lump forms in your throat as you wait for his response, a tender look on your face.

“He’s, uh, he’s here still. Doesn’t run with us though, he’s been getting into shit with the Fireflies here. Drives me insane, but you know how he is.”

“Always a joiner,” the words roll off your tongue and you bite down on it, cursing yourself internally for making fun of his brother without really knowing how this Joel would respond.

Relief washes over you when he laughs, not a full one, but nevertheless, you got to see a sliver more of that smile that had you smitten.

“Got that right. Tommy always wants to be a hero,” he shakes his head back and forth, an adoring smirk on his face as his stare lengthens and his mind is taken to his younger brother for a moment.

With the news of Tommy, you were even more eager to ask your second question. It gripped your heart, tugging it nearly out of your chest. Your voice softened as you spoke to him, eyes involuntarily watering in anticipation.

“And Sarah?”

Silence. As if the words catch in his throat and start to choke him from the inside. His eyes widen in loss of oxygen, chest still as he holds his breath. He can’t look away from you, eyes quickly pacing to hold contact with yours. They communicate desperation, as if he wants so badly to explain, to tell you what happened to his daughter that you loved, but he can’t get the words out of his airway.

It tells you everything, that look. You hadn’t lost your ability to read Joel, and the realization completely demolishes the composure you were attempting to maintain. Closing the gap between you, you focus on Joel as you wrap your arms around his waist, tight and full of compassion. Your head rests on his chest, facing to the side. Everything else in the room falls away, muscle memory moving your hands in circles against his lower back in the way you remember he loved. He’s tense in your arms, his own wrapping around your shoulders hesitantly until he feels the comforting touch. Tautness breaks from him, resting more of his weight against you as his head dips down to rest his chin on you and his eyes close.

Yours close too, and just for that moment, you’re back in his kitchen, sticky summer morning air coating the room from the open screen door. Cartoons squeak from the TV in the other room, and the smell of Joel’s French toast wafts from it’s crisping on the stove.

Domestic bliss. What could’ve been.

That hug has tormented Joel for weeks. The first time he saw you, the first time he heard your voice, the first time he held you after he thought he never would again. And that one time has unearthed a hunger for more. A need for you. Doesn’t matter if he’s around you or not, he can’t stop thinking about you.

When you’re on runs with him, he has one eye on you at all times. When it’s a route without your boyfriend, he feels a bit bolder; touches linger on your back as he guides you through obstacles or around your arms as he holds you back to get ahead of you to clear a room.

He’s been trying, so desperately trying, to respect your relationship. Not that you mention him much, but you and Danny arrived in Boston, shacked up together, and have made no hints at that changing. For now.

It’s gotten to the point where it’s driven him to drink, added to the long list of things he needs to be inebriated or high to cope with.

This is how he ended up at the QZ speakeasy, a few blocks from his building which makes it an easy past-curfew destination. Sole occupant of the low, barrel table against the back wall, he pounds a whiskey back which quickly turns into three. A buzz has started in his body and his mind, a clear path to his ideal destination on the horizon. It was a shitty run today, mostly coming up dry and having to deny some trades. Plus, you weren’t with him.

When he’s waving the bartender for another glass, his eyes skate across the room and catch you standing at the top landing of the stairs that snake down to the warehouse basement bar, eagerness evident in your expression when you find him. Overprotective, he watches you bound down the stairs to make sure you get to whoever you’re meeting without any issues. He’d be more than happy to step in if someone got too close.

Focused on his self-appointed task, he doesn’t realize that you’re making your way over to him excitedly until you’re standing in front of his table, gesturing to the empty seat across from him that he offers to you.

Plopping down in the wooden chair, a goofy smile stretches across your face as the giddiness of being around him flickers in your stomach. You’d felt this jolt of energy being near him, thinking about him. It’d been like that for weeks since you saw him again and held him. It was a spark, and now your embers were slowly catching fire the more time you spent with Joel.

Greetings were exchanged, and him buying you a drink along with another for himself. Finger tracing around the lip of your glass, you glance up at him and attempt to make small talk if only to be able to hear his voice.

“So, how was the run today?”

“‘S fine. Pretty dry.” His response is clipped, mumbled out as he brings his drink up to his lips for a swig.

“Oh, really? That’s a shame. You got another one planned?” you keep your eyes on him, watching as he looks anywhere but at you. Around the table, across the room, even at his own boot.

“Yeah, got one next week.” Joel’s grumbling, deep crease between his brows as he sulks in his chair.

“Maybe I can join you on that one?” you propose, hoping that it gets his attention. Sure, you could be reading into it, but something told you that he enjoyed having you around as much as you enjoyed being around him. Brows raised in hopefully curiosity, anticipation swells your tongue in your mouth.

“Maybe.”

That’s it? That’s all he has to say?

Joel’s always been a man of few words, always crafting careful and thoughtful responses when you were together. But this? This is ridiculous. He clearly doesn’t want you around, his eyes darting as if to look for the fastest escape route. It stings, deflating your excitement. The chance of this encounter was the sole reason you went out tonight. Danny had fucked off to play poker or gamble away ration cards with some other guys he’d gotten buddy-buddy with, and it didn’t help that you two had been drifting further from each other over the last week. You weren’t sure how much longer this companionship would be worth it, and with Joel always around, it certainly was starting to blur some lines. He always made you feel better, even when he wasn’t trying. Except for tonight.

Your hurt boils into anger, and you scoff at him, arms crossing firmly in front of your chest.

“You keep acting like you’re looking for a chance to leave. If I’m keeping you here, feel free to go. I’ll drink by myself.”

Joel looks at you, his eyes softening. He opens his mouth, then shuts it, thinking about what he should say. You get annoyed by his lack of response, grabbing your drink off the table and slipping out of your chair to leave him there.

“Are you really that oblivious, bonny?”

You turn back, anger growing at the thought that he’s mocking you.

“Well, screw me for trying to make conversation with you, Joel. I guess I am oblivious ‘cause I thought we could be friends or, I don’t know, at least civil after all this time.”

“Bonny, I can’t be friends with you.”

He’s kicking you when you're down, clearly just being cruel.

“Why? What did I do?”

“I can’t be friends with you, ‘cause I want more than that.”

The honesty stuns you. Sure, you had felt that pull towards Joel again, but you didn’t know that he felt the same way or that he would act on it if he did. He gets up from his chair, taking a step closer to you before he continues.

“I looked for you, y’know? After everything. All I wanted was to have you back. I knew you’d know what I needed. And when I saw you again, I realized why I couldn’t stop looking. What I needed most was you.”

He stands close to you now, warm breaths intermingling with the other’s, humidity heating your cheeks while his eyes stay locked on you. Everything you’ve felt since Joel had been revived into your life suddenly becomes overwhelming; you can’t contain them, can’t compartmentalize them anymore. You reach for him, hand pressed over his heart, feeling the rushed beating pulsing under your touch.

His eyes look down slowly to his chest and then back up to you when you whisper, “Mine feels the same way when I see you.”

“Is that right? Can I feel for myself?”

You nod slowly, peeling your hand off of him only for him to catch it and hold it in his. Your voice is thick, “Maybe somewhere a little more private? Like your place?”

He looks confused for a second, brows knitting together before it dawns on him, pupils widening and darkening his eyes.

“Let’s get out of here, bonny.”

Keys jingle as he twists them in the lock, throwing the thin wooden door open after he pulls them out. He nods for you to step in ahead of him, taking a few paces into the apartment and surveying around. The door clicks behind you and the deadbolt slides into place, the sounds sending goosebumps across your skin at the prospect of being totally alone with Joel, no watchful eyes or possible interruptions.

Eyes continue to skate along the room, tiny details noted. Half-drunk whiskey bottle on the counter, small baggies of pills on the coffee table, other finds from his side occupation littering the space.

His weighted steps drag across the worn wooden floors at your back, the presence of him hanging behind you slowing your breaths in suspense. Saliva coats your mouth at the dryness of your thirst, hair standing off of your skin in waiting.

The first touch you feel is his fingers brushing against the back of your neck, sweeping the hair there off to one side and holding it there. Joel takes one step closer, chest pressing against your shoulder blades and crotch against the swell of your ass. The warmth radiating off of him sends a shiver down your spine, jolting against him briefly. Your breaths pause as you wait for his next move, eyes fluttering closed when his lips touch the nape of your neck in a ghostly kiss. A hand wraps around you, resting just over your breast to feel the rapid beating of your heart, the rhythm matching his own that you feel against your back. A placid gasp puffs from between your lips, snapping the taut tension between the two of you and sending a new urgency to his actions.

Palms encase your hips, spinning you around to face him and tugging you close to feel every curve pushed against him. His lips find yours in a hungry kiss, your own mouth opening in a sigh at the contact. Joel takes this as an opportunity to lick into your mouth, tongue dominating yours and swallowing every whimper that comes out of you.

Your own hands grip his shoulders, nails dragging against the fabric down to his biceps. Fingertips dig into the flexed muscles, steadying yourself as he starts to walk you backward throughout his place. He never leaves your lips, knowing the space with his eyes closed to lead you all the way back through the door to the small bedroom on the left side of the living space.

A whine escapes you when his mouth detaches from yours, working kisses along your jaw to the hollow under your ear, sucking at the space there. A groan rumbles from his chest when you let out a soft moan and hold his arms tighter, hips involuntarily jerking against his growing bulge.

Lust-blown eyes stare into yours as he stands up fully again, delicate touch brushing your cheek before his thumb nudges the scar that sits on your brow. The look in his eyes pains for half a second, and you finally speak up since leaving the speakeasy.

“‘S not a good story. Happened from a lamp falling onto my head when I was raiding around some suburban house. Just an accident. You wouldn’t have been able to stop it from being there.”

His gaze meets yours again, tugged away from the fibrous tissue on your face. The bulb in his throat bobs when he swallows, head moving side to side minutely.

His hand caresses your cheek, voice thick with his drawl when he softly responds, “You underestimate me, bonny.”

The words gloss your vision, quick blinks settling the emotion and clearing the picture of Joel in front of you again. Your heart constricts in your chest, attempting to imagine the amount of pain that he’s been through, but you can’t even begin to know.

Instead of dwelling on the moment, he presses one light, affectionate kiss to your lips before he takes a step back. He grips the hem of your shirt, brows quirking up in a silent question. You nod subtly, the permission allowing him to slowly tug the fabric over your head. He devours the newly exposed skin with his burning stare, compelled to bend down and trace his lips over every new mark he sees while his hands move across your curves to reacquaint himself with your new features. Wider hips, rougher skin, purply stretch marks veining your skin along with ropy paths where injuries had healed over.

Joints crack softly as he settles onto his knees in front of you, sending you into light giggles while he groans and presses his forehead against your lower tummy. He reaches around and playfully smacks your jean-covered ass, a fake scowl on his face when he looks up at you from his praying position.

“‘Nuff gigglin’ at me, you’re gonna feel this sore come morning.”

The threat of his words floods arousal between your thighs, bottom lip toyed between your teeth as you quiet down your laughter. Joel kisses your clothed thigh, fingers popping the button of your jeans and dragging the zipper before they hook in your waistband and tug the denim down your legs. Joel laughs lightly at your silence, eyes finding yours as his hands lift each of your feet one at a time to help you out of your pants.

“Thought that might get you excited, lil’ lamb. I know you’re gonna be such a good girl for me, aren’t ya?”

The wink that follows his drawl jolts your limbs and fingers twist into his locks as his open mouth exhales warm, humid air on your panty-covered mound. He presses his face against the fabric, inhaling deeply and moaning softly at the scent of you.

“Fuck, sugar, it’s still the same. Missed you so much. You think you still taste the same?” He directs the question up to your face, your head lulled down to meet his gaze. A smirk pulls at the corners of your mouth, mischief glittering in your eyes.

“Only one way to find out, baby.”

His amber eyes were pools of ink with how much they darkened, full of carnality. Large fingers smoothly strip you out of your panties, his figure coming to stand at his full height in front of you. Gripping your waist, he guides you back to sit on the edge of the mattress, lifting your legs by your thighs and easily maneuvering you toward the center.

Joel moves to climb onto the bed with you, but your soft sigh of frustration stops him.

“I wanna see you. ‘Specially if I’m completely naked, ‘s only fair that you are, too,” you gripe to him, bottom lip protruding only slightly in a pout. Joel considers for a moment, ultimately deciding that fair’s fair. He pulls his knee off of the mattress and makes quick work of undressing, his own clothes laying rumbled on the floor with yours.

Satisfied with his fulfillment of your request, your eyes completely devour his bare body as he moves to kneel on the mattress between your open legs. Fighting for survival has kept him fit, broad shoulders flexing as he lifts your legs at the crook of your knees to spread them further. His chest is firm, the rest of his torso softer just as it had always been. It was one of your favorite parts of him, the sight of it now taking you back to times cuddling him on the couch or in bed, head in his lap to press kisses against his tummy or resting your head there and being lulled to sleep. Your fingernails comb through the happy trail, pressing into the skin of his lower abdomen as you sit up to kiss him deeply. He moans quietly against your lips, your knees pressing into his stocky thighs, toes curling against the flexed muscles in his calves. Your arms settle around his neck, lips chasing his as he pulls back to look at you.

“I really did miss you, bonny. Couldn’t believe it when you were in front of me again. Still can’t really believe it right now.” His voice is breathy, eyes holding yours, moving back and forth minutely. One of his hands encompasses the left side of your face, the other moving down between your bodies, his frame bent over yours. Two fingers work circles into your clit, inhale catching in your throat while your legs tense from the feeling of his touch on you.

“M-Missed you, too. So much. I looked for you everywhere I went. Needed you again, I need you now.”

“‘M right here, lil’ lamb. Not going anywhere again. I’m gonna make you feel so good, just like I used to.”

His fingers working your clit slip through your wetness, pressing against your entrance to coax a moan out of you. He hooks them into you, pushed against your spongy walls in search for that spot he’d been all too familiar with. Like riding a bike, he fell right back into what you had loved from him before, knowing just how to work you up. His jaw dropped slightly as his eyes glued to where his fingers thrusted into you; he closed his mouth every so often to swallow the saliva flooding his mouth until he couldn’t wait another second to taste you again.

Joel folded over, legs scooting back on the bed to allow his head to sit between your thighs, tongue lapping against your clit feverishly and switching with his lips every so often to suck at the same spot.

The sounds leaving you at that point were wanton and lewd, mixing with the squelch of your wetness. You felt the familiar knot tightening in your stomach until it’s pulled loose, a loud gasp of his name while your nails dig into his shoulder and walls tighten around him.

He keeps his pace, mouth still attached to your core. He’s not going to let up without you saying something, and you can’t take another moment without him giving you what you want — what you need from him. Fingers tangled in his mussed hair, peeling him from between your thighs. He meets your eyes, lips and chin shining with dampness in the low light of the bedroom and fingers pulling out of you. Eyes blown into blackness at the sight of your pleasure, mouth opening to speak when you cut him off.

“More of that later, if you really want it. But I need you. Inside of me.”

Joel smirks devilishly, fingers coated in your come pushing between your lips and into your mouth for you to clean off.

“Just tastes so sweet, bonny. Can’t help but want seconds,” his hard cock twitches where it lays against your thigh at the feeling of your tongue sucking his fingers, “Better ask again nicely, lamb. Or else I’m not giving you anything.”

The smirk stays painted on his face, a huff of frustration as your hips jerk up to chase his hand that hover over you, desperate for more.

“Please, pretty please. I need you,” you beg, pleading in your eyes as you look through your lashes, dull nails scratching his skin.

“That’s my good girl. Kept your manners.” The wink he sends you flutters your walls around nothing, whimpering as he manipulates you into his desired position.

Joel straddles one of your thighs, bringing the other up to lay against his torso and rest on his shoulder. Your hips turn only slightly to the side in the position, opening your pelvis into a kindling heat. He spits in one of his palms, fingers of the same hand running shortly through your arousal and then mixing the fluids to coat the tender skin of his length. The head of him pushes into you deliciously measured, his motion pausing for you to adjust.

It only takes a moment before your body remembers, the muscles of your tight pussy molding around him once again. Your body feels the familiarity of him, the reactions it has are heightened from the comfort of his own body, focusing solely on how perfectly he fits inside of you.

“Damn, sugar, feel like your little pussy got even tighter. Feels so pefect around me, like she knows who’s about to fuck her just right,” his voice is coated with lust, jaw laxing with a guttural groan when he pushes further into you.

When Joel finally starts a rhythm, slow and deep at first, your eyes roll back into your skull as your head presses hard into the mattress under you. The position brings him incredibly deep, and his size fills you nearly to the brim. It was a feeling you hadn’t felt since the last time you’d had him, his veins on his swollen cock carving the same paths along your insides to feel every detail of him.

“Feel so full, baby. Haven’t felt it since I had you last,” your voice is higher and breathier, toned in a whine.

“That’s right, bonny. Nobody makes you feel as good as I do, huh? Probably haven’t had a decent fuck for years, you poor thing.”

All you can do in response is moan, hands gripping his forearms that are the part of his nearest to you.

He fucks you like this for a good moment, moaning your name quietly before he huffs in frustration, completely pulling out of you. Immediately, you mewl at the loss, head shooting up to protest before he’s moving you to his will again.

“Just a second, sugar. Need to be able to kiss you and feel you all over. Being such a good girl for me, I promise you’re gonna love this.”

He still couldn’t be as deep and close to you as he needed to be in the previous position, so he manipulates your jellied limbs easily to be able to fully cover you with his body. His grip is on your knees, bending your one leg that was once between his thighs to move your calf to hook over his shoulder. Once both your legs are settled on his frame, he continues to stretch your hips by leaning over you, pinning your thighs back to your ribs. He’s completely opened your lower half, folding you back to the point where his tummy is resting against yours and his face is hovering over you. Muscles in your legs and hip flexors burn and spasm, but you can’t care for even a moment when Joel thrusts into you again. You’d never been in this position with him before, and your mind instantly clears of any thoughts besides how hard and deep Joel is fucking you, how you had never felt as full and complete as you did in that moment.

He chuckles as he watches you completely cock drunk, one hand leaving your leg. The large palm finds your lower abdomen, pressing against it as he locks his gaze in yours.

“Can you feel me right here, lil’ lamb? Feel me deep, pushing your belly?” His voice is sweetened sickeningly, the pride and amusement of being the one to give you this experience, to make you feel that full once again evident in the twinkle of his eyes and the sideways smirk on his face.

Chants of his name leave your mouth, your voice barely covering the sounds of his skin slapping against yours steadily.

With him inside of you, it was like two puzzle pieces joining together to finish the picture. The satisfaction of completion was there on all fronts, his rhythm frying your nerves and tightening that red hot coil in your core. With his body covering yours in this embrace, he keeps his mouth on you, heady kisses to your lips when you can take it and mouth biting or licking along your chin, jaw, and neck when you need to breathe.

His motions switch up in the next instant, pushed into you at the hilt as his hips circle to grind you on him. He makes tight figure eights, the act getting you to the point where he’s fucked you completely dumb. All you want in that moment is to feel his warm spend inside of you, watch his face contort from his own pleasure. You can tell he’s close the less he speaks and the more he pants, head falling to your shoulder and eyes closing as he focuses hard to keep pace.

“Come inside me, please. I want it,” your tone is urgent, spilling the words out before your orgasm blinds you white-hot, mind clear of everything except for the euphoric high Joel’s given you. Tightening around him, he moans loudly, thrusts becoming messy and stacatto as he chases his own peak.

“God, such a perfect girl for me. You gonna keep my come in you all night? Go back to your boyfriend tomorrow with it dripping out?”

All you can do is nod, cunt fluttering around him as it starts to work into overstimulation, the rub of his skin against your clit so pleasurable it’s getting painful. Your voice falters when a third orgasm pulses through you.

“Y-Yes, yes. I want you inside for as long as it’ll stay there. Pl-Please, baby.”

Your begging pushes Joel over the edge, hips stuttering as ropes of his warm spend fill you up. He starts to work into you again, fucking it deeper before he finishes.

The pair of you are sweaty, sticky messes; hair tangled, lips swollen, eyelids heavy in recovery. Joel stays inside of you, gently moving your legs down and his own arms wrapping under you to lay you on your side with him, lifting one of your legs to rest on his hip.

Soft, supple kisses are shared as the two of you drift in and out of consciousness, eventually falling asleep completely.

Blue tinted sunlight creeps into the sole window of Joel’s bedroom, the night sky fading into a lilac dawn. You’re studying Joel as he sleeps, long lashes grazing his cheeks, lips parted just enough to let some light snores escape. Your finger delicately traces the scar on his right temple, your featherlight touch causing his eyes to flutter open and find your gaze half awake.

Joel’s immediately in fight or flight mode, arm around your waist tightening as he holds you closer.

“You okay? Something happen?” His voice is hoarse from sleep, clearing his throat as the slight panic wakes his up more.

Gently, you rest your hand on his chest and shake your head with a tender smile.

“Everything’s fine, you can relax. I was just lookin’ at you before I have to go home.”

Joel deflates, brow creasing at the mention of you needing to leave, to go home to your equally shitty apartment and some guy that wasn’t him. Jealousy flicked in his chest, a confession sitting in his throat for a minute before he let it out.

“I really did mean it, y’know. I need you. Now that I’ve got you back in my life, I can’t let you go. You’re some of the only family I’ve got left, and I don’t think I could survive losing you again.” His voice is shaky, wet brown eyes locked with yours. You have rarely seen Joel this unguarded, even in your life before, without the hardness that had come with the constant threat to his survival hanging over his head. The words wrapped around your heart, squeezing tightly and ripping it out of your chest to give to him. Silence falls between the two of you as an understanding washes over you, relaxing your body as the memory of safety, comfort, and home ripples throughout every muscle. You tell him what you have felt since the moment you saw him again:

“I’m not going anywhere, Joel. Not without you.”

tagging the mutuals: @swiftispunk @joelsversion @johnwatsn @midnightswithdearkatytspb @pedrit0-pascalit0 @theelishad @undrthelights @ladamedusoif @ruinedbylanadelrey @thetriumphantpanda @pedgeitopascal @dinsdjrn @thepascalofus @pedgito @soaringcloud @somedayauthor @alloftheimagines @pr0ximamidnight @beskarandblasters @atinylittlepain @nicolethered @scrambledslut @lunapascal

#joel #joel miller #joel miller x female reader #joel miller x reader #joel miller x f!reader #joel miller x you #joel miller x y/n #joel miller x yn #joel miller smut #joel miller fanfiction #joel miller fic #joel miller fanfic #tlou fanfic #tlou fanfiction #me #writing

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what-do-1000-swords-look-like · 2 years

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Hi! I don’t know if you have covered this before but do you think Jon/Dan was toxic and abusive? I feel like it was. Like the scene in Mareen where Danny tells Hizdar she has suitor on his knees was foreshadowing. ☹️I think it’s partly Dany never knowing healthy love relationships. I’m not excusing her behaviour but I think it’s a contributing reason.

Hey, Nonnie! So sorry for the delay in my response. I started to answer and had written you back a 10,000 word essay lol but then realized I didn't really answer your question so I scrapped it. And instead wrote you another 10,000 word essay LOL. Sorry! This got long.

I'll be honest, idr if I have gone into this before but no worries, I will go into it here. =)

I do feel that the relationship was toxic and abusive. One of the things I've always stood by when I've been asked why I'm anti-Jonerys (besides Dany becoming a tyrant and the KL massacre) is that the relationship was not good for Jon or Dany. Though I do think the toxicity and abuse of power was coming strictly from Dany's side. Some might disagree and say Jon was manipulating Dany the whole time (if they're willing to admit that pol!Jon or something was there that got dropped in the end) which is also not healthy but their argument gets lost in the context. Had Jon been manipulating her to get some form of power, then yes. But that wasn't why he did it as we know and he tried to do it in the kindest way possible, which falls in line with what Kit said about Jon in season 7. But, regardless, the relationship overall wasn't healthy and really helped to contribute to both of their downfalls in the story.

That's an interesting observation there, Nonnie, and I do tend to agree with you. Like you said, it doesn't excuse her actions but I do think part of it is that she never knew a healthy relationship or type of love. The purest form of love that she has known is absolute devotion from her followers and from men who were blinded by her beauty and in awe of her.

This is just pure conjecture on my part, but I do believe her abusive past with Viserys helped to contribute to that rage she had. As if each time it happened, it stoked the fire within her. I'm not saying it's the sole factor but I think it definitely added to it. She had never known any kind of love before that. She was simply a pawn, a piece to be traded, based on her looks and relation to Viserys.

Then she was with Drogo, which she ended up turning to her advantage. I do think she loved him, possibly as much as he loved her, but as we know it didn't equate to how much she loved Jon. I almost wonder how the relationship between Drogo and Dany would have gone had he survived. Like I would almost have loved to have seen S8 Dany and S1 Drogo together for a moment, to see if she would have kept him as her husband or he also would have become a threat, because she wasn't willing to share the throne. But I digress. While they loved each other, I think that love was slightly tainted due to its beginnings (her being essentially sold to him) and the fact that she had to utilize the knowledge Doreah taught her in order to change the dynamic between them. In that scene linked, to me, it's yet another foreshadowing clue/inside look into Dany's character. "Are you a slave, Khaleesi? Then don't make love like a slave." And then Dany flips her somewhat aggressively onto her back, which catches Doreah pleasantly off guard. But this also shows what Dany's real motive was. She said she wanted to please Drogo, which is why Doreah is instructing her, but ultimately she wanted to turn things to her advantage (which in this scenario, who could blame her?) so that love that develops between Dany and Drogo started a trend of the love of the so-called men in her life. Drogo has this absolute devotion to her (moon of my life), he doesn't behave like any other Khal when it comes to their wives and/or women, and she basically tames him so to speak. To his own detriment, which leads to his downfall and his death.

Then you have Jorah who she never got involved with but he had his own absolute devotion to her and was willing to do anything for her. He kidnapped Tyrion to get back in her favor and goes to find a cure for greyscale so he can go back to serving her because she tells him she needs him. She loved him in her own way, but she never returned the feelings he had for her. But she still had his devotion and he was someone she ultimately trusted and kept close. This farewell scene is very telling imho of the dynamic between them as well of his devotion. A lot of people focus on Dany's farewell to Jon for various reasons, as well as the looking back trope, but to me this was the most important piece:

Jorah was going to say something but she puts her hands into his, letting him know silently that she needs him and to return to her. Jorah sees Jon coming and kisses her hand before withdrawing. But this very image is of someone subservient to someone else. He may not be on his knees doing this but he doesn't need to be; she already has his devotion. So as pure as this love is that he has for her, it's not requited and there is a power dynamic between them. Which is a shame because I dare say that I think had Dany returned his feelings at all, he might have been a healthier love interest for her (later on in the series I mean) and would have been able to temper her impulses. And I only say that because of this scene:

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He not only convinces her to let up on Tyrion slightly but also to try and talk to Sansa. And here Dany, while lying through her teeth (about Tyrion stealing Jorah's position; thankfully her manipulation tactic doesn't work here), is not acting as his queen so to speak. (and even notice that she ends up walking away from the open fire, ending up on the other side of the room, which is interesting because Dany was facing the fire when Jorah walked in - very powerful statement the show is making here; the blocking of this scene was super important)

Then you have Daario. Daario who betrayed the other Second Sons' leaders for her and immediately bends the knee, helps her take Yunkai, and begins advising her on how she must rule. He makes a valid point that she needs to know the land she is going to rule (a precursor to the whole Westeros arc) but he also sees who she really is and encourages her to be the dragon basically. He loves her and while she has affection for him and despite getting involved with him, she doesn't return the feelings. But in this relationship, you have the power dynamic at play as well as his absolute devotion.

Then you have Tyrion. Tyrion who considers himself to be a smart man and see through people easily. While he convinces Dany not to execute him once Jorah delivers him to her, as he starts advising her, he begins to have faith in her. He believes she is the answer to the shit world they're in and wants her to make a better world for them all. And in the course of this, he falls head over heels in love with her. He is the antithesis of Jorah. He has devotion to Daenerys but it's not absolute, and Dany knows that. Hence the constant contention between them once things in Westeros starts going sideways. Tyrion saw through her, knew what she was, but he convinced himself that he could guide her and temper her impulses. So he couldn't be wrong and he loved her. This line he says to Jaime isn't just about Jaime and Cersei; it's also about Tyrion and Daenerys and the current dynamic they're in. "You always knew exactly what she was. You loved her anyway."

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(I couldn't find the scene of Tyrion walking through the destruction of the battle in 7x05)

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From Jaime/Tyrion seeing the destruction to seeing Cersei/Dany, all paralleled. Even this:

Not only does this form of love contribute to Tyrion's downfall (and he obviously didn't learn his lesson from Tysha or Shae), but it also leads to his family and house being wiped off of the map and contributes to the KL massacre. Dany didn't return his feelings but she had a form of affection for him, which lessened the more and more the chasm between them grew. (I have a post I'm currently working on that goes into this more, about Dany's expectation of absolute devotion, including giving up family; I hope to finish it soon and post it) The more and more mistakes Tyrion made that she did not want to forgive. Her line to Sansa in 8x02 proves exactly why she kept him around. "I didn't ask him to be my Hand simply because he was good. I asked him to be my Hand because he was good, and intelligent, and ruthless when he had to be." And we all know how this relationship ended. That Tyrion literally embodies "Duty is the death of love".

And then we have Jon (sorry it took me so long to get here, Nonnie). Jon would have been good for her as well, but not as much as Jorah I don't think. Their relationship, as brief as it was, started on warring power dynamics (mostly on her side), abusive power dynamics (again, from her side), and manipulation (from both). As we all know, that's not a recipe for a healthy relationship. A lot of Jonerys shippers like to point to Dany's proposal in the 8x06 throne room scene as to how this power dynamic between them would have balanced out, but they always miss three big things: 1) Jon was not going to last had he accepted that proposal (she was going to eventually kill him), 2) there was already an abusive power dynamic at play, & 3) this proposal did not happen in a romantic type setting (or even a peaceful or mellow one), it literally took place in a destroyed throne room while the ashes of those burned alive swirled in the air around them. It was not going to be a happy ending for this pairing even if Jon had never grabbed that dagger.

And sure enough, since the relationship started, it has been beyond toxic. I admit, it was more subtle in the beginning, but it definitely became more and more overt as the show continued on. To the point where we now have some very big examples: 8x04, 8x05, and even 8x06 (though this one I would say is more related to the throne and the power struggle than their relationship tbf).

8x04:

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Here Jon mentions Jorah at first (because Dany is basically Jon's Jorah in that dynamic but also because Dany wants Jon to be her next Jorah, but one she loves back). Then we get her admitting she loves him and then this breakdown:

Jon kisses Dany but he subtly moves her away from the open fire

Dany begins to try to undress Jon & only then does he return the favor

Jon stops kissing her and moves away (notice how this only happens once she's where he's moved her)

Dany then goes into her spiel about how she wishes she could forget, how she wishes Jon hadn't told her the truth (the audience's initial impression is that it's about how the truth affects their relationship in the love/sex aspect) and how she sees how many people love Jon compared to her

Jon tries to assure her that he doesn't want the IT & she tells him to never tell anyone who he really is

Jon makes it clear that he wants to tell Sansa and Arya who he really is and Dany doesn't like this due to Sansa because it will threaten her claim to the IT; she begs Jon not to tell anyone & when he tries to assure her that everything will be okay, she goes cold (aka comes out of her manipulation attempt) and basically threatens him with "I've just told you how" (and the implied '...or else') & leaves

For me, the most important lines to focus on here are:

"If I didn't know, I'd be happy right now." -> Dany only focusing on how she feels about this situation

"I told you I don't want it." "It doesn't matter what you want. You didn't want to be King in the North. What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?" -> not only is this foreshadowing for what ultimately would happen to Jon had Dany survived but it also is once again, all about her; not to mention, she now knows the IT isn't hers but in her mind "mine" -> "Dragons don't understand the difference between what is theirs and what isn't." (7x07)

"You can say nothing. To anyone ever. Never tell them who you really are. Swear your brother and Samwell Tarly to secrecy and tell no one else." -> as if this isn't bad enough just by itself, we've seen Jon's struggle throughout the series as a bastard who wanted nothing more than to be a Stark, to have this identity and be embraced as something more than a bastard - we've seen him work hard and how he has moved up the ranks so to speak - we've seen the toll it takes on him to be something he's not (aka his wildling arc, to me it's no coincidence that he falls in love with Ygritte, someone who knows who he really is, a crow, and loves him anyway; and even this hidden thing he has during his Dany arc) - so for her, his only other relative on that side of the family, to deny his identity and want to keep it hidden all because of who he is (which is literally a parallel for the bastard part of his story, like Cat hating him because of his birth, something that can't be helped & is not his fault), as we know for a relationship that's a HUGE red flag - some may say Dany is thinking proactively and politically and to an extent, they're correct, but for the relationship to thrive, both people have to be getting what they need and validate the other - not to mention, Jon is on his knees during this part while she leans over him, gripping his face & saying this, this very image is an abusive power dynamic at play (which is exactly why Jon gets to his feet, he is stunned that she's telling him to deny himself basically)

"Even if the truth destroys us?" "It won't." "It will." -> tbf, Dany is right here but not just the truth about who Jon is, it's also about the truth of Jon "kindly manipulating" her; however, the truth about who Jon is only being told to his other family shouldn't matter here and here's why: Cersei broke the wheel so to speak by becoming the first Queen of the 7K (which is why Dany is so anxious to get her off the throne btw, Cersei beat her to the punch on that one & it doesn't bode well for her destiny and making impossible things happen). Jon's claim, while being strong, doesn't automatically mean that it usurps Dany's now because he's a man. The only way his claim is a threat to her now is because she's a "foreign invader" and like she says in this scene (and in 8x05), Jon has love (and a healthier form of that devotion) where she doesn't. Dany knows if the truth gets out, Jon will have more support and people will want to see him on the IT besides Sansa or any of the Starks. So here we have manipulation coming from Dany (which we already had in this scene, like the hand grabbing for instance, but here it's extremely overt) in order to keep him quiet so she can still "take what is mine". (and the begging him is part of this) And the manipulation as we know isn't healthy either, from either of them tbf, but her endgame is definitely different to Jon's, as well as the means they take to go about achieving them.

"We can live together." "We can. I've just told you how." Her tone and expression changes on a dime here and becomes cold and flat. We then see them break apart and she leaves. -> this is a threat, she's telling him 'don't say anything or else' because of the fact that she says "We can. I've just told you how" after he says "And they are my family. We can live together." And obviously, if there's threats present in a relationship, this is another HUGE red flag and this does not lead to a happy ending. This is toxic and abusive, especially since the threat implies possible bodily harm to Jon or his other family should he tell his sisters the truth about himself.

And then of course they gave us the contrast in these two images to show us exactly who is leading this abusive power dynamic here (as well as showing us the contrast between the two characters since they're two sides of the same coin):

For 8x05, I already went into this a bit here, so I won't go into it too much but we see the abusive power dynamics come sharper into focus, becoming more overt. We see that Jon is actually afraid of what she's going to do when he refuses her advances and makes it obvious that his love devotion for her doesn't run as deep as he had been trying to portray (though we don't find out until 8x06 that his fear is not just about what will happen to the North or Bran or Arya but to Sansa, since Sansa was the biggest threat to her besides Jon himself). It becomes about fear at that point, which Dany basically says herself at the end of the scene, and once that's in the mix (which it already was but the show made it extremely obvious here in this moment), there's no hope for that relationship.

And this scene is also meant to link (as a parallel and contrast) to the 8x04 scene above since they have the open fire, Jon trying to placate her, and how Dany initiates the physical intimacy while also the mention of the truth, Sansa, and "I don't want it" comes into play.

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The other scene in 8x05 that I think shows deeper into their relationship is this one:

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Even though this is about Varys, some important lines are said:

"There's something you need to know." "Someone has betrayed me." "Yes." "Jon Snow." -> without Tyrion saying anything & her knowing nothing, she automatically assumes that it's Jon (this is not a truly romantic relationship nor is all of this suspicion healthy) - talk about toxic (and while Jorah may have betrayed her in the past & she feels Tyrion is betraying her consistently, Drogo and Daario never betrayed her so yes she may deal with betrayal constantly but there was no reason to assume that about Jon other than paranoia/worry about the truth getting out) -> this points to that Jon is already layered heavily in suspicion in her mind and foreshadows what would have happened to Jon had she survived (she had Jon there at Varys' execution for a reason; the show had Jon there purposely despite the whole Northern army traveling timeline thing they had going on)

"He knows the truth about Jon." "He does." "Because you told him. You learned from Sansa. And she learned from Jon. Though I begged him not to tell her. As I said, he betrayed me." -> even though Tyrion has just told her that it's Varys who has betrayed her, her focus is once again on Tyrion, Sansa, and Jon, with Jon being the worst since he told the truth though she "begged" him not to -> this all ties into the absolute devotion she expects even when it comes to someone's family; had Jon stayed with Dany & accepted her proposal, not only would he have eventually been executed but he would have had to give up the Starks, literally and figuratively, especially Sansa; isolating one from one's family/loved ones is obviously toxic and leads to abuse (if it's not present already)

Then we have the 8x06 scene that I think was foreshadowing Jon's eventual demise itself:

(and funnily enough, right after Dany walks away, Arya shows up & warns Jon about this very thing happening as well as mentioning how Sansa won't accept Dany as queen; "And I know a killer when I see one")

and the bonus is this look when Dany has walked away (before Arya shows up):

(he looks like one smitten kitten, doesn't he?)

So it definitely was toxic and abusive, and it was never going to have a happy ending. Even if the KL massacre didn't happen, let's say. They set it up this way from the get go:

In 7x02, when Dany summons Jon, she makes it very clear that Jon is to come to Dragonstone so an alliance can be brokered (as is indicated by Melisandre, though tbf to Mel, she said Dany should meet Jon and hear what he has to say so there goes Dany taking the words and running with it for her own gain, yet again) but he is to bend the knee first and foremost.

In 7x03, we see Jon and Dany meet for the first time, but we also see something else happening here:

1) Drogon intimidates Jon and Co by flying directly over them (quick side note here: one of the various reasons I'm looking forward to HotD is because I'm pretty sure they're going to be getting into just how much the dragons are bonded with their riders and how they represent them, like Daemon's dragon - this was something that was sorely lacking in GoT and only if people watched behind the scenes do they see David talking about it at the end of season 5 when Drogon saves Dany & in that deleted scene where Jon asks Dany how to control Rhaegal - I'm excited because this is definitely something from the world of the books & if any GoT GA watch HotD, they will finally understand just how much Dany controlled Drogon & how much he represented her)

2) Jon's boat is taken away when it doesn't need to be (they literally could have moved it further up the beach so it wouldn't wash away but the show chose for us to see Jon noticing how his boat is taken away & it plays into Jon now being a prisoner & unable to leave) - while the disarming makes sense, the boat relocation does not, especially since the Dothraki are used to do it (and not the Unsullied - very purposeful - the Unsullied aren't there to make war, they're following orders, the Dothraki are Dany's bloodriders)

3) The first shot we get of Dany (from Jon's POV) is this:

While it makes sense for Dany to make this impression, it doesn't make sense if they're going for the romance angle, despite the rough start they may have at first. If Dany was meant to be seen by Jon as regal, someone to believe in, a powerful but just queen, this shot was the wrong way to go about it. (and we all already know, this show definitely made choices)

4) In Dany's intro scene to Jon, when she doesn't get what she wants (him bending the knee), she instead becomes displeased & threatens him with "As far as I can see, you are the enemy to the North." (which calls back to Jon and Sansa's convo in 7x01 above Winterfell) & then making this point again with "It's also fair to point out that I'm the rightful queen of the Seven Kingdoms. By declaring yourself King of the Northernmost Kingdom, you are in open rebellion." (after Jon literally just explained that the Northern lords put their trust in him to lead them and he would do so as best as he could)

5) Jon likens Dany to Cersei (the enemy to the South that Sansa had been mentioning in 7x01) with "The only reason I can see is you don't want to kill thousands of innocent people. It's the fastest way to win the war but you won't do it which means at the very least, you're better than Cersei." (so now, based on the dialogue itself, we have the setup of them being on opposing sides, and that Dany is indeed an enemy though Jon tries to smooth this over - and now looking back, it's easy to connect the dots even more to that 7x01 scene, since the show was trying to tell us about Dany being another threat in addition to the NK)

6) Dany's speech to Jon in this scene shows who she really is (when she talks about faith, you see a glimmer of that simmering rage shining through) & how she views herself through the lens of how others have viewed her so far, her so-called believers. You can see Jon taking this in (that's not an impressed or awe-struck look he has as shippers claim) and then puts it to her point blank: "You'll be ruling over a graveyard if we don't defeat the Night King." (I really do believe he sees her for exactly what she is in this moment but he needs her help with the NK)

7) When Varys speaks to Dany and basically sends Jon and Davos to rest in their rooms, Jon asks "Am I your prisoner?" He puts voice to everything that this scene has set up to this moment. And she replies with "Not yet." But after everything we've seen, we know he is (because let's face it, Dany wants her northern kingdom, she's not sure exactly yet what she's facing as far as his following goes and how devoted they might be to him, he's not looking at her with awe and wonder like so many others have done, she just lost the Greyjoys and Dorne, and compared to her other Westerosi allies he's showing up asking for help versus the others showing up to help her go for the IT no matter their agendas of revenge)

8) In this scene with Tyrion, not only do we have Jon looking out over the sea (I would say almost longingly), he says point blank: "I'm a prisoner on this island." There it is. He's her prisoner. (and people wonder why he agreed to go beyond the Wall later on after getting the dragonglass lol) And Tyrion confirms this: "I wouldn't say you're a prisoner on this island. You're free to walk the castle, the beaches, to go wherever you want." But Jon isn't having it: "Except to my ship. You took my ship." So Tyrion tries again: "I wouldn't say we took your ship." And Jon shuts him down: "I'm not playing word games with you." And there it is for the audience in a few lines: Jon is Dany's prisoner and he's not allowed to leave, Jon and Tyrion know it, and Tyrion is trying to get Jon to play ball for Dany's benefit. And Jon is refusing to: "I'd like to leave." But Tyrion insists, accesses Jon through his mentioning of the North and his title (aka the trust the North put in Jon). But the line that Tyrion says that is so telling (about Jon and Dany themselves) it's chilling: "Sometimes there's more to foreign invaders and Northern fools than meets the eye." That line, now knowing what we know, sets up the foreshadowing for both of their characters but also their relationship and its dynamic perfectly. And Tyrion's line of "Maybe you are a Northern fool" sets up how Tyrion sees Jon in this dynamic with Dany, that he believed that Jon was really in love with Dany. This episode was written by D&D; these lines were very purposeful & now looking back, you can see it was the setup for the J/D relationship.

9) In this scene where Jon & Dany talk, it starts out with Jon stopped on the stairway, watching a dragon fly overhead. In this shot, we can also see Dany is further down the stairwell, at the Wall, watching them as well. This sets up exactly how Jon is viewing her (as the dragon or something that appears scary and intimidating) as does the beginning dialogue from Jon saying the dragons are amazing things to see. Then we have the conversation where Dany asserts her position as Jon asserts his, both are faced away from each other (in opposition to one another) except when they are asserting their positions, and the attempt to find a common ground by both of them (him mentioning the dragons; her mentioning his brothers) fails. They only are facing each other again when Dany capitulates about the dragonglass. After Jon thanks her, she turns away from him again. He tries once more and asks "So you believe me then about the Night King and the Army of the Dead?" She doesn't answer this but tells him "You'd better get to work, Jon Snow." And he walks away. Because in the throne room scene in this episode, she called him Lord Snow (purposely demoting his title because she is asserting herself as Queen) and he called her Your Grace. So for her to say "Jon Snow" instead of "Lord Snow" demotes him back to his full bastard status that he had in the beginning of the series. And this is why Jon walks away in the fashion he does. So even before their relationship begins, even before this attraction pops up that Davos mentions in 7x04, Dany had already introduced the abuse of this power dynamic and eventually this will become toxic.

10) The cave scene was not only meant to attempt to get Dany to understand the very real threat the world is facing but also shows how Dany uses this moment to her advantage in order to get Jon to bend the knee. It's still about the IT for her & her being in power.

11) In this scene, Davos tries to get him and Jon out of the situation with "You'll want to discuss this amongst yourselves" which Dany immediately denies "You will stay." There was no reason for Jon or Davos to be a part of this conversation, especially since technically Jon and Dany aren't allies yet and Jon has not bent the knee. It's not smart to have things you're discussing with your advisors in front of people who are technically not on your side and could pose a real threat. Even Varys looks surprised that she orders Jon and Davos to stay. But she does this because it's manipulation and slight intimidation. Some might look at her asking Jon's advice as her valuing Jon's opinion, but ultimately she doesn't take it. We see her use Drogon and her army to attack (and burn) the Lannister army on the Gold Road. And we also see her impulsively burn all the food in the midst of the battle. She wanted them, more specifically Jon, to see her rip Tyrion apart (because Tyrion has that link to Jon; he vouched for him in addition to Melisandre & he and Jon have a history) because she's angry and she wants them all to know it. Notice how when the camera is on Tyrion after Dany turns around to unleash on him, in the background Jon takes another step back to get closer to Davos. Varys also takes a step back, as does Missandei and even Davos himself. Tyrion is the only one who doesn't, but he keeps his eyes down as she verbally tears into him. Only in the next shot of him do we see his eyes meeting Dany's but then dropping again. When she says "Our enemies? Your family, you mean. Perhaps you don't want to hurt them after all", the camera is then on Jon, Davos, and Missandei, but the focus is Jon. Because it will come down to Jon's family (Sansa) and Dany herself. That if Jon doesn't give Dany the absolute devotion she's looking for, he will also be in danger himself (without the parentage reveal even). Manipulation and intimidation.

12) Which makes absolute sense to Jon's reaction (or lack of one) to the news of Arya and Bran here. I know people wondered why he didn't react more but the show purposely had Jon's emotional reunion with Bran in 8x01 (& then his private emotional reunion with Arya in the same episode) to show us that Jon obviously cared. He didn't want Dany to see back in 7x05. Which is interesting because technically in 7x06, when Jon bends the knee, that's when his more personal manipulation of Dany starts. But here, the manipulation (to get off of Dragonstone and back North) has already begun. He still wants her as an ally, still needs her help with the NK, but here I don't think he planned to kick that manipulation up a notch. Not until he saw the dragons in action. And in this scene, we see Jon trying to get her to let him go but she comes up with reasons why he can't (and as we start to see, this is to the beginning of developing feelings she has for him). It's only when Tyrion comes up with the Wight plan that Jon agrees to go (once again, trying to get off this island but get Dany as an ally), and when she refuses, he asserts himself again. And this time, she capitulates. The fact that he had to fight for his freedom so to speak, speaks volumes once again to their dynamic.

13) This last scene before Jon leaves Dragonstone, everyone talks about the lack of a look back to Dany from Jon but also about the infamous words Jon says to Dany: "I wish you good fortune in the wars to come, Your Grace." But more importantly, he says this in response to her "I've grown used to him". She is making her interest in him obvious in that moment, to the audience and to Jon, and he instead replies with the infamous line said between enemies. Very telling for how their dynamic is not only viewed by Jon himself but by the writers as well.

So, it was all set up from the get go. And like you mentioned, the foreshadowing of Dany and what she expected in her relationships after Drogo, that scene with Hizdahr was very telling. And we literally see that play out with Jon. So, I absolutely agree with you, Nonnie.

I also agree with you that Dany never knew healthy relationships or even knew what love was. Take her dragons for example. I'm not saying she didn't love them but she definitely used them as weapons long before season 8. I remember watching 3x01 and being shocked at what she says to Jorah about the dragons, after watching the dragons flying overhead fondly.

youtube

"They're growing fast."

"Not fast enough. I can't wait that long." (as she's literally stroking Drogon and he's enjoying the attention from his mom - this is part of the reason I don't hate the dragons btw or blame them, it was Dany and the Targaryens that turned them into weapons)

I remember seeing that at first watch and being like 'but they're your children! Wtf?' But it was just one of many things that didn't add up about her (until they did). Plus, my thinking is: Sis, I'd like to see you try to take KL without the Unsullied, the full Dothraki force, and at least one grown dragon. Stannis had an army (and ships) and wasn't able to get it done. What makes you think you would have? Sorry, I digress, but I get irritated when I watch that scene, and slightly protective (I have a thing with fictional animals, I guess).

And she seems to agree with me. "I need an army." (and she looks irritated as she says this while watching Drogon fly off which again made me go 'wtf', almost as if it was the dragons' fault for taking too long to grow)

So even though these dragons are her 'children and the only children' she will ever have, she also views them as weapons. A means to get her what she wants and to instill fear in those she means to rule slaughter and whoever stands in her way. Tbf to Dany, she never knew her mother and she wasn't raised with love, but like you said, Nonnie, it doesn't excuse her actions.

She definitely had no reference point for a healthy and loving romantic relationship since she had never been in one. But again, no excuse. While I can appreciate what she was trying to accomplish, or maybe it's more appropriate to say what she was selling to her believers, she absolutely went the wrong way about it and it should have been no surprise to anyone that things never worked out for her in the romance department. Especially since Jon was never going to be one of those blind followers.

Toxic. And abusive.

Thank you for the ask, Nonnie! I hope I was able to answer you with this 300 page paper LOL. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day!!! <3

#ask #ask answered #got #game of thrones #antijonerys #anti jonerys #antijonerysposts #metaposts #anti jonerys meta #jorleesi mention if you squint hard enough #dark!dany does feature here quite a bit #so i'm putting those tags #dark!dany #dark!daenerys

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merv606 · 1 year

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Mob Princeling!Daniel idea from your AU! What about an ABO take?

So Omega!Daniel is the youngest/maybe only child of once powerful, now fading mob Boss (Cuba? lol) He reminds his BossDad very much of his deceased wife in looks and temperament, so much so that BossDad has pampered and cuddled him rather than raise another Boss. Daniel has been spoiled sweet - he loves nice things and is sassy (occasionally bratty) - but he’s a total sweetheart, kind, affectionate, and ridiculously pretty (think NINY!Daniel or Teddy!Daniel).

So pretty that he’s caught more than just the eye of AlphaBoss!Terry of a rival mob (Irish of course!). Terry, under the guise of making peace between the feuding factions, requests Daniel’s hand or he will annihilate them all (he’ll save Daniel for himself though). BossDad agrees for the sake of uniting their mafia to become even stronger, and actually have a new Boss in Terry, and breaks Daniel’s heart when he barters him off to Terry - a man, an Alpha, Daniel doesn’t even know, and has only met once (strictly supervised of course). Daniel had been shy and skittish on that occasion when he saw Terry looking at him so intensely, and couldn’t understand why the scent in the air changed around him.

Daniel is barely of age and very frightened, especially on his wedding day where he learns how powerful and deadly his now husband really is. Might go a dark route and have his wedding night be absolutely horrible and Terry uncaring as long as (Terry) has what he desires, even though Daniel is broken by what happens (Terry puts him back together, but Daniel is never the same) Or Terry can be a gentleman Alpha and not consummate the marriage until Daniel falls for him as well - which won’t take long because stubborn and clueless as Daniel is, they have certainly scentbonded and Terry knows it’s a true match with the little omega.

Either way, Daniel makes the best of his situation and Terry falls even harder for him, and dislikes when the little omega is not nearby. Also: Daniel can cook really well in this AU and he wins Terry’s cronies over by his amazing kitchen skills. He also cooks when flustered and annoyed - which is often, thanks to his new husband. Terry considers himself a very lucky Alpha. Lol.

Oh sweet little summer child …. There’s ALWAYS an ABO take 😈

I have sooooo many mafia AU ideas - seriously - it’s a problem 😂

I do so love the idea of Daniel being a bartering chip - a way to strengthen their family by uniting it with another powerful one OR Terry manipulating the scenario to get Daniel - perhaps obsessed with having him from the first time he laid eyes on him.

The wedding night - let’s meet in the middle.

I HC Terry as someone who, ego wise, would want their partner to desire them, so no matter who he beds, he always shows them a good time - I mean, there’s also his reputation as well.

NGL - I also love the trope of big scary person who everyone fears (character A) with the pure sunshine person (character B)- you know the one - character b is the only character A is soft with.

Besides, I like my Terry on the more manipulative side than physically or sexually cruel TBH.

He may make Danny do things (sometimes it’s things Danny only thinks he doesn’t want - those are just things he hasn’t convinced Danny of yet though) but he’s going to make damn well sure Danny likes it (or comes to anyway).

So Danny is frightened - for the both act itself and because of the rumors about his husband and his ruthlessness - thinking it will spill over into their marriage bed.

Terry will reassure him - but he will be consummating their marriage that night - Daniel’s nerves or not.

So Terry strategically keeps his smaller husband off balance and his head swimming and unable to process really - poor Daniel is caught up in whirlwind of Terry’s passion and couldn’t say no even if he wanted to, he’s so overwhelmed. The gentle kisses quickly turn heated, Terry’s hands on either side of Daniel’s face as the kisses deepen and turn more heated and desperate.

Love the idea of Daniel cooking when he’s pissed - seems like such a him thing to do. Food - breakfast for the kids, coffee for Amanda - seems to be one of his love languages.

#ask #i got an ask 🤩#cobra kai #terry silver #silverusso #the karate kid #silverrusso #karate kid #daniel larusso #the karate kid 3

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msfbgraves · 1 year

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hiiiii! <333

in knights and pawns, is daniel gonna be the traditional little house-omega or would he like to do something outside of the home, like maybe being a mechanic or something lol? i can imagine him fitting really well into the househusband thing though, since he loves kids (and will probably be popping out a number of them), and is so cuddly and nurturing that he wouldn't mind cooking and stuff and taking care of his mafia alpha and their home. i keep imagining this scenario where daniel has this rule that they always eat together (it's the italian in him).

daniel: NO terry, no mafia-business until you've had a proper dinner.

terry: but--

daniel, waving spatula threateningly: did i stutter?

terry sits down and eats but he can't complain since danny is an excellent cook.

would terry prefer to have him safe at home, or would he mind if danny wanted to have a paying job?

one more question: since terry and daniel are both catholic, do they attend church?

Argh, Nonnie, I'm smiling so much!

I think that, especially at first, Daniel would be a homemaker, yes. Complete with spatulas because Madonna mia, does he have to do everything over here, he cannot eat whatever Terry subsists on. Cabbage, ugh! As for a job, Terry would be schooling him alongside his puppies to take over the role he'd originally set aside for Amanda. I think that building a mob empire is hard work, and they definitely need Daniel as a go between with the Irish and the Italians. But he'll have to ease Daniel into it, and at first, he'd like to have a few puppies. But a paying job? Never. The shame! Terry wants to rule NYC, his omega is not going out to work and Daniel would balk at that too.

I also think that Terry has had a terrible bachelor lifestyle, and so Daniel has absolute say in what happens at home, because what do you call this, oh great Alpha, no wonder you're always at the pub.

And they absolutely attend church, it's more a question of which church. To Terry, information is key, and gossiping churchgoers are a goldmine. And now, the Italians must let him attend, too.

#knights and pawns

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im-totally-not-an-alien-2 · 2 years

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I love the rejected soulmates Dead Serious au thing going on. I was about to suggest that this is the perfect setup for a love square but someone else already went and did it lol.

But like, imagine the shenanigans.

Damian rejects Danny, Danny is devastated and resents him for it. (Or, in that one scenario, Danny rejects Damian and Damian goes and tries to prove he's a great soulmate and only he's allowed to do the rejecting, basically.)

Obviously, in order for this to happen, either Damian goes to Amity Park, or Danny goes to Gotham. In either case, due to the location, either of them can meet the respective local heroes. And in the process: Damian grows to respect/crush on Phantom (but doesn't know why Phantom is ignoring him or whatever), and/or Danny admires/crushes on Robin (which could be a pre-established thing even before knowing Damian was his soulmate because Robin's pretty famous--it's one of those celebrity crush things yknow?) and maybe thinks Robin's grumpy attitude toward him is normal (there are stories about this Robin being really aggressive/etc. and all that).

It’s only one of those scenarios, because due to not being on home turf, they don’t reveal the fact that they’re heroes during the course of these meetings. (The Batfam not wanting to reveal they’re in Amity Park to not give clues as to their identities and all, seeing as it’s sus if the Waynes show up in the same city as the Bats, and/or Phantom respecting Batman’s whole territorialism thing... and also not wanting to face the greatest detective in the world or whatever, scared his identity will be discovered if he does.)

So after that first meeting/visit (ie. Damian went to Amity Park first to reject Danny), then later when the opposite visit happens (ie. Phantom ended up in Gotham for whatever reason), it’s the hero version that visits rather than the civilian. And when “first meetings” happen a second time, the heroes get along great, but the civilian doesn’t understand why the hero doesn’t like them? (Especially in the case of Damian and Phantom, I think--maybe he’d end up thinking Phantom doesn’t like rich people, given his very public hostilities with Vlad.) Maybe they end up going to the other for advice about it or something (for plot/irony of course).

And with secret identities, thus the love square:

I can just imagine Phantom asking for advice about his soulmate since he does want to get along with him, even if they don’t end up in love (platonic soulmates need more rep, so whether this ends up platonic or romantic would be writer’s discretion!) because y’know, soulmates are supposed to be your match for a reason and all. Maybe was even hoping to see him on this field trip since their first meeting didn’t go so great. Damian of course doesn’t know he’s the soulmate, but due to the whole “I rejected my soulmate” situation he finds himself both in a tough spot because he can’t give good advice, having been a rejecter, but also distinctly feeling jealousy and rejection himself due to Phantom saying he had a soulmate he wanted to get along with (which for a teenager like Damian, would probably translate in his mind as a rejection even if Phantom didn’t outright say it to him--makes it seem like Phantom is already taken, so Damian’s feeling some sense of loss). Maybe through this he’d finally start to understand that that was how Danny felt, having lost a chance at a relationship before he could even have it.

I can also imagine Damian trying to investigate Phantom’s living identity to try to find out who his soulmate is (maybe makes an excuse like “I have to make sure they’re an adequate fit for my friend!”) which could lead to identity reveals.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, instead of Danny trying to get along with Damian still, he decides “screw it” and tries to have a relationship with Robin instead, and there’s a whole buncha things involved with that like “why won’t you share your identity” or the classic soumate-au trope of the existential crisis of whether soulmates mean you can’t have a relationship with someone else, or there’s also the idea of Damian asking how Phantom still has a soulmate if he’s dead? The idea of soulmates persisting after death, of maybe waiting around for the other soulmate to join them before moving on. (hoo boy, heavy topic)

Of course there’s also shenanigans for everyone else too. Some of the batfam and team phantom being pro-”stick with your soulmate, don’t date around”, some of them being pro-”screw fate, do whatever you want”. some of them try to wingman and matchmake and get the heroes together; some of them try to get the civilians together, maybe once a hero/civilian pair get locked in a closet. I can imagine Sam being like “look if Damian doesn’t want to be your soulmate, you don’t need him, move on/get over it” and being fiercely protective of Danny and fighting Damian because she doesn’t like how Damian hurt Danny (like. actually fighting him. and Damian can’t really fight back because she’s a civilian and he’s not in costume) probably preceding whatever heartfelt conversation he needs to change his mind about Danny and actually try to get along with him.

Anyway it’s the early hours of the morning and I’ve probably rambled enough. have fun with this, it’s all yours now :)

This is amazing and I've read it like, seven times now. I'm probably going to read it a few dozen more times cause thats how good this is. I love this! All of this!

#submission #fanfiction prompts #prompts #not mine #dp x dc #danny phantom #danny fenton #robin #damian wayne #food for the soul

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dahniwitchoflight · 3 years

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man, a lot been happening on the internet lately, talking about content creators and parasocial relationships being a big topic recently

I almost don’t wanna post anything about it, cuz I’m not sure how to avoid any sort of stirring of the pot, but there’s an angle to this situation that I think a lot of people are confused about, and that’s “where does the fault lie when a person gets hurt in a parasocial relationship?”

And people I guess are thinking this is some sort of case of power dynamic’s, but I think thinking of it in these terms is incorrect to be perfectly honest

does a content creator seem to have a lot of sway over someone who’s fallen into a parasocial relationship with them? sure it can seem that way

but is that the content creator’s fault? No, as bad as that sounds to the tumblr crowd

this is NOT the power dynamic between an abusive father and their child, or a skeezy boss and their secretary, or any other real abusive power dynamic where the victim faces some sort of real consequence for not being compliant with the abuser’s wishes

this is the dynamic between a casino and someone with a gambling addiction.

can you argue that the gambling addiction/parasocial relationship wouldn’t exist without the casino/creator existing? sure you can

can you argue that it’s within the interests of the casino/content creator to get customers and fans? absolutely

but can you also say that the problem in the situation here is inherent to the person with the actual addiction problem here? someone who gets too invested in the scenario through their own desires and or addiction problems? That many people can go to a casino or be a fan of a person in a perfectly reasonable healthy amount and never get hurt or encounter any issues? Yeah

Even if you dislike the casino/creator and have hard feelings for putting you into a situation where you believed you were gonna win it all, even though the odds of that happening were never in your favor, and rightfully feel you’ve been victimized by them, the casino/creator existing and doing there thing I really don’t believe is the thing at fault here

I think there’s something to the idea that people who are vulnerable to addictions like gambling and thinking that theyll win the jackpot of millions against impossible odds is not too dissimilar from a singular fan of some content creator thinking, this is it, I’m the one theyll fall in love with over everyone else, against all the odds itll be me

and also whatever prevents them from realizing that the consequences of losing would apply to them as well, other people in the casino might lose all their savings, but it wont happen to me. Other people might get lost in the fantasy and then end up being dumped, but it wont be me

I think the brain juice would see these as very similar situations, and this addiction angle I think explains a lot for how people get into parasocial relationships in the first place and why they feel like it’s so hard to get out

but people are still free to believe that casino’s/content creators are morally corrupt institutions, just from their nature of the fact that their livelihood depends on people and fans crowding to their type of entertainment

At the end of the day, they cannot control what their fans are going to do, they can’t read the minds of anyone who chooses to come to their establishment, they can’t know at a glance or through conversation who’s going to get addicted and who isn’t, they can only see warnings signs after the fact and then damage control, it’s just a messy reality of life that it happens

There are best practices to prevent these types of things sure but those don’t catch every case and inevitably there are going to be people who fall through the cracks anyway

the correct approach here is to mitigate the addiction problem. that’s the real thing at fault here, not any one person

so to answer the question, where does the fault lie when someone gets hurt in a parasocial relationship?

you might be a victim yes, but not a victim of the casino, as much as it can feel like that, your a victim of an unfortunate affliction

people can be dismissive and yell all they want about alcoholics being drunks, or gamblers having no spine and should just be able to not go to a casino, or people who are overinvested fans should just be able to stop back and not care about a creator so much, but I understand that it’s not that easy

but it still doesn’t make it the fault of whatever you got addicted to, It doesn’t make it anyone’s fault, and the casino/creator has less power over an addicted individual than you think, short of banning them entirely, there isn’t much they can do from their end to mitigate an individual’s behavior, I think that is something some people need to hear, I hope people don’t think I’m callous or believe that people weren’t genuinely hurt by the events that happened to them or something

but the fix to this problem doesn’t lie on the casino’s/creator’s end, it lies in mitigating the addictive disorder in the individual’s in particular’s end

this is purely speaking from someone who runs a blog and has thoughts for a fandom that once upon a time a lot of people seem really invested in, (not so much nowadays lol)

I cannot control anyone of you, I don’t know any one of you, no matter how much I might try or get close or how close any person out there gets to me, I still can’t predict when I might encounter someone who seems overly starstruck, and in no way do I have the ability to navigate those kinds of relationships properly. I simply do not have that sort of therapeutic training and I think it’s a little bit unreasonable for people to expect that from me, despite how charismatic or not I seem like

I just have indeed had instances where another person got really overinvested in “Dahni Witch of Light” and wanted to be in my inner circle of socialness and friends and might have been hurt when I declined that, but at the same time, I can’t do anything about that (thankfully I’m not any sort of real popular LOL and it’s only really happened like once or twice, that I know of, since they made their feelings clear to me in private, but that’s still one or two people that might have gotten hurt)

So what does this all have to do with stuff?

I’ve read all the anecdotes about both Dan Avidan and Vinny Vinesauce, read all the docs, see all these people’s point of view, and yeah it sucks that they got hurt by the circumstances, but all that stuff meant to paint these people in a bad light? did more to me to paint them in a really good light

I saw nothing but people making sure they had the comfort and consent of everything they were involved in, doing best practices when it comes to relationships, talking about their feelings, about their expectations and also doing what they can to protect themselves and their privacy

again the worst things I saw about either of them, is danny building up the fantasy of being with a rockstar a bit too much, egging on any potential parasocial relationship issues that might have already existed, and vinny giving someone HPV (which, is debunked in of itself because that’s not how HPV works in men, even outside of vinny that’s just not how it works.)

the rest of all the stuff I saw esp in the vinny doc, was people not even accusing vinny of saying or doing anything wrong either, but miles and miles of “I assumed he was thinking x” or ”I assumed he was feeling y” and no attempts to communicate with him about any issues they had with him, because they felt awkward doing so, and instead let it fester inside them until they got hurt by it

this is not sexual assault, their mild discomfort about stuff never even happened over sexual topics, just bland things like him over-venting to them sometimes or having lowkey mental issues like being paranoid a little, this is not even being intentionally hurt by someone, this is being bad at communicating with your partner and letting yourself endure a relationship you weren’t actually happy with, because you didn’t want to get dumped by the person you were invested in

and if you feel like you can’t honestly communicate with your partner, not because of anything they did to you, but because of your own internal conflict over how famous he is, and feeling like you’re forced to endure things you aren’t vibing with in a personal relationship

(mind you, I mean the things they said they endured in the doc which was, they didn’t like when vinny would get ranty about his friends or previous sexual encounters he had that went bad or they got weirded out because they thought he was too paranoid about stuff when they were together....which... okay so like tell him you don’t want to hear about that stuff? communicate your problems to your partner? end of story? you never even attempted that, you never even gave examples of things you thought he would do to you other than dump you if you spoke up...... which, I’m sorry, but that’s not some sort of consequence a victim faces from their abuser.... so you can’t even say he would have had a bad reaction, especially when you give examples of him doing exactly the opposite, apologizing for things that made other people uncomfortable WHEN theyve actually communicated to him that they were uncomfortable with it)

-Those are signs that you are too overinvested and too parasocially invested with a person to have an honest relationship with them

like, heck these things aren’t even unique to partnerships, you should be able to communicate when anyone around you is making you uncomfortable, even friends, but if you can’t and the only reason you can’t is because of a parasocial investment in that person, that’s not healthy on your end

Danny sure seems to have been a little bit at fault for building up the fantasy of catching feelings for a famous dude when he intended one night stands, is that the best way to have navigated the situation? No probably not, but to a person who doesn’t have a parasocial relationship with him, this behavior would just be disappointing when the fantasy fizzled out, it’s not inherently harmful

after that point, if after the fact a person who had any sort of interaction with them felt hurt by the experience, there honestly is not much more a content creator could have done to mitigate that, in fact Vinesauce I think seems at least more aware of the parasocial thing and tried more strongly to vet the people he was with to not be those kind of people, but again people aren’t mind readers and nothing will ever be foolproof like that, and I guess some people even took him trying to vet that kind of behavior as hurtful in and of itself, (they took him venting about previous parasocial relationships he had and how paranoid and upsetting they were to him, and took it as some sort of threat against them personally, like they were trying to mindgame what exactly he was telling them, assuming he was saying something else that he wasn’t, which, is assumptions that live entirely in their own minds) but I’m just sitting here like, what else could they have done?

I get that people who had sexual relationships with these people could come away feeling really awful about it, feeling manipulated or duped in some way, but what else could have been done to prevent that from happening other than the people in question just, never interacting with anyone? Which is not a realistic solution, and doesn’t fix the problem of the victim in question moving on and getting starstruck by someone else and having it happen it all over again

If these people want to make friends, want to make relationships with anyone, want to have casual sex, want to have any sort of human connection, there unfortunately gonna have to sort the people they encounter into two different groups, people who have parasocial relationships with them and people who don’t, (and this is NOT people are fans of them and people who are not, you can be a fan and not get caught into the parasocial thing) and it is impossible to get this correct in every single individual social experience that theyre gonna have with every single individual human being, regardless if it’s a sexual relationship or not

in conclusion, I really do hope the people who were hurt by all this can truly heal and move on eventually from this, in no way am I trying to lessen their experiences, but I really don’t think other people deserved to be hung from the gallows over this, it’s no one person’s fault, neither the fan’s or the content creator’s, it’s just a messy interpersonal situation

I believe the correct thing to do is spread awareness about the warnings signs that you might be falling into a parasocial relationship, more effort needs to be put into what this looks like, what it feels like, how to avoid it, how to mitigate it, and how to regulate the very real feelings of love and affection someone might have for a person they see all the time in media but don’t have a real connection with, with the understanding of yeah, if you really can’t enter a casino without losing your life savings, a very real conversation needs to be had if you should even be entering these casino’s/watching their content at all

#my main conflict over this post is is this actually helpful at all or is this just hurting stirring things up more #I don't believe my position is an unreasonable one to have #and i do believe there is something to be gained from reading it #but i don't want to hurt anyone either

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rip-a-dip-dip-you-potato-chip · 3 years

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what have I created?

idk if yall like this, but they just exist not i guess :/

ok the the first one is Royalty AU

first things first, when I say Royalty AU, I don't mean the classic shit we've all become accustomed to. Im talking about the good old Chinese royalty! And I want to emphasize that these guys will/should be dressed in century appropriate attire. As someone thats read a handful of 'marinette, princess of china' fics from the ML Fandom, I've noticed a common trend. Marinette wouldn't be in the culturally appropriate clothes, always ballgowns. Not that there's something wrong with it, its just most of if not all these fic are set in China, so I'd expect Chinese royalty to dress as THERE dress code calls for. And since this AU takes place far in the past like, it won't make sense for any of the characters to be in royal clothing that wasn't from there region. I'm not trying to white knight/gatekeeping. Im Guyanese not Chinese. But since JTTW and Monkie Kid take place in China, it's only right. In my opinion that it. You don't have to outright agree with me.

With out of the way, it's time for that good old AU crack

- Wukong is the king of the Flower Fruit kingdom(or a different one if you'd like, again I'm only familiar with what western culture has taught me, but I'll try my hardest)

- he’s single but rumor has it he used to/still is dating the Vigilante/thief The Six Eared Macaque

- *chants ShadowPeach violently*

- no one know whether it true or not

- On of his wanders around the kingdom he finds an abandoned baby in a basket.

- and no shit sherlock it's fucking baby Xiaotian

- I think we all know where this is going because i'm a simp for Monkey Dad & Monkie Son shenanigans

- Xiaotian becomes prince

Shit, ill be referring to Xiaotian as Mk from now on, I mentioned this before in a fic I wrote for lmk that Mk's a nickname for Xiaotian for some reason- wait i don't have to explain my self to you people!

- Sun loves his son

- MK is treated differently by staff and others because he's not blood related to the king

- no one mistreats MK per say, because there King loved his adopted son, but words are said behind his back

- Sometimes MK hears what’s said, and he feels as if he won't live up to his dad’s legacy.

- He meets Mei during a festival

- Mei is from a noble family, that wouldn't mind if they got a connection into the royal family.

- but it becomes hella clear to Mei’s family very fast that the two are just friends, and will always will be. but hey there daughter is bffs with the prince so that's a plus.

- the Demon Bull Family is rules a kingdom as well, I dont/am not creative enough to think of a name I leave that to you.

- It's a common misconception that DBK is a tyrant, when he’s not.

- most of the time...

- they have been at war with the Monkey King for some time now and settled for a peace agreement.

- that agreement being there sons to marry

- oooo original i know

- MK and Red Son are roughly the same age, Mk being 20 and RS 22

- RS is revolted/disgusted at the idea of being wed to the Monkey Kings child, even more so when he realizes MK is adopted,

- but, that all changes the second he meets MK while he meets him by accident when he gets kinda lost in the palace when he and his parents go to discuss the arrangements.

- the second he looks at MK, he's instantly in love. MK less so, he's nervous and honestly kinda bummed he's not marrying someone he loves but it's for the good of his ppl, and he'll do anything for them.

- RS isn't even aware that MK is Suns adopted son until MK walks him back to the meeting room.

"Oh There you are MK! I was about to have a servant go fetch you!" Sun Wukong says, gesturing for his boy to come sit with him.

"S-sorry for keeping you waiting I got caught up in my lessons with Mr. Tang" MK responds, sitting next to his father. Red Son looked gobsmacked. The beautiful young man he had bumped into, was the prince of this land? Damn, life truly blessed him. Or cursed him depending on how you looked at it.

- the two are left alone in a separate room for a while.

- And MK straight up tells RS why he's agreeing to this union.

"Look Red Son. I've dreamed about meeting my one true love for a while. And I would give almost anything for that dram to be real. But I wouldn't ever dare give up my people, for as there price they mean more to me. I'm doing this for them, no other reason" MK says, his back straight and hands folded neatly in his lap. The look in his eyes was a mix of sadness, but that was drowned out by loyalty and determination. It just made Red Son fall for him even harder. Clearing his throat Red spoke.

"I understand, for im doing this for the betterment of my people to. But I propose a wager"

"A wager?"

"Yes, if i can make you fall in love with me by years end, before our marriage, we can live together like in the fairy tales from far away. But if I fail, in a years time afterwards you will be permitted to find your own path in life" Red Son stated. MK took a moment to process what was happening.

"So, if you succeed in making me fall in love with you, before our marriage we can live happily ever after?" Red Son nodded in response, letting the younger continue.

"And if I shouldn't fall for you, in a years time after our union, im free to leave?" Red Son nodded once more.

"So, what do you say?"

...

"Deal"

In the end, your free to choose their fate, should Red Son win the hart of Mk? Will he fail? Or will he let him go, and let him travel the country, after all Mk's a free spirit and keeping him trapped in a big house is like keeping a cannery trapped in a cage only for its song, only for it to dul. Or will the unthinkable happen and will both boys find their freedom? together or appart? I don't know, because that's all up to you 😉

personally, I’m partial to where MK and Red Son both find freedom together. Like they straight up run away together to somewhere far away and just live out there lives together.

this could also be genderbent thing as well. MK or Red as their respective counterparts. Again it doesn't have to be, but it’s whatever bro. im just spitting out the idea.

Also, there is a main side plot that they fight the WBS throughout the year as well, along with other shenanigans you wanna throw in.

____

The second is a My Hero Academia/BNH/MHA AU

truth be told i'm not a big fan of MHA i think it to over hyped(this is also coming from the same person that’s a Fairy Tail fan lol), and the fandom i don't even know how to describe that mess, but I will admit not the whole of its toxic since every fandom has some toxic members, some even more so.

I just sometimes find myself enjoying MHA AUs like the Fullmetal Alchemist, Danny Phantom, Evil!Deuk AU and several others.

to make it clear I don't see this AU taking place the same time as the main plot of the actual Anime/Manga. This could be either like 6-10 years before or after the plot idk bro. But i’ll do this after the main story plot of MHA, so keep that in mind ya? another thing, the gang is still in China, the top hero school in the world just so happens to be in Japan, and it’s only ever mentioned by Sun wukong and other pro heros. So MK never attended AU. in short it’s only ever mention/ reference.

- Mk was considered Quirkless as a kid.

- he was just a late blumer, i swear

- Mai’s Quirk is called Dragon.

- it pretty much works the same way as it does in the show(duh)

- Tang’s got a knowledge Quirk,

- my man can retain information and he’s basically an archive of information drawback being his personality lol

- Piggsy is a Animal that gained a Quirk

- in cannon to my current knowledge, there are two other characters that can confirm animals can become sentient. the characters being Fumikage Tokoyami, & Nezu the principal at the school UA.

- Sandy is just Conner Kent, aka he like superman but can't fly, or shoot lasers from his eyes. And blue.

I have two scenarios for Macaque and Wukong

*- The first one is that, Sun Wukong & Macaque are brothers. twins to be exact.

- they where legit people, but have mutation quirks that made them too like monkeys.

- the added powers were just a boues.

- Sun and Mac are close growing up, like there brothers but also best friends.

- the draw back to there quirks could honestly be whatever you want bro idk, same with the others tbh. Personally I like to think Sun just has lack of motivation, and Macaque needs to draw on other people's energy.

- Sun is a hero, Monkey KIng and Mac is a villain Six Eared.

- Sun was always treated has the golden child in the family, Mac always resented that, but there shitty up bring didn’t stop the two from being good brothers to one another.

- soon tho the resentment became hatred when Sun was able to attend UA in Japan, while Mac didn't.

- Mac be angy

- so he became a villain, and joined the Chinese branch of the LOV(league of villains)

- Sun doesn't know this till he finds out during the all out war during the main story. and by that time he’s a full on hero with is own agency(The Flower Fruit agency)

- when the hero's ultimately win and Mac is arrested

- This ultimately hurts Sun a lot, his brother was in jail now, arrested for his involvement and wrong doings, he knew nothing about this! this brother, his blood. A bad guy? why? he hadn't seen his brother since he left for UA, he hadn’t seen him when he came home, and started his agency.

- this just puts Sun into a funk so he’s not as active as he used to be, and he starts thinking he might need a successor

*- The second one is that they were two separate people that had similar quirks and both attended UA but Sun ended up in the hero corse. so 1A.

- Both Macaque and Sun have similar quirks, Sun’s is obviously more light based while Macaque’s is more shadow based(this applies to the first one as well)

- Macaque was placed in class 1B, U.A.’s High's Heroics Department, I believe, you can correct me.

- In cannon Class 1A and 1B both went to the training camp. I can see the teachers pinning Sun and Macaque against each other to hone their skills.

- And because of that they become great friends

- In fact when they graduate they both co-found there hero agency together in China and are a duo.

- But due to Monkey King’s popularity and Six Eared's association with shadows(people sometimes saying he has more of a villains quirk than a heros) the public see’s Macaque as Sun’s sidekick when thats far from the truth.

- now it’s up to you whether you think that Wukong and Macaque would be in a relationship together, but knowing how cooked we all are, ShadowPeach is a thing here more than likely.

- If you do or don’t support/ like the ShadowPeach aspect, the two would be living together regardless since its more cost efficient.

- They my be heroes but living costs are expensive!

- I would imagine there would have been a huge fight/argument between the two in privet of course, at there home.(or in there shared office if you want the extra angst of the other people they work with hearing them fight)

- If the two are dating, then this would either lead to an out right breakup, or Macaque just up and leaving with Wukong thinking he’ll come back once he’s cooled off. But after a week, with no sign of his partner, or him answering texts or calls, not even coming into work. Wukong gets worried that something might have happened to him. so there wouldn't be a confirmation if they were still a thing or not.

- But Wukong remains hopeful, despite the nagging at the back of his head, and gut telling him to go find Macaque, or atleast make a public statement, or even just tell another pro hero about it.

- on the not so shippy side, Macaque and Wukong still have there argument, and much like the ShadowPeach esc side, Macaque up and leaves, and isn't seen for weeks. the only difference here is that when Wukong comes home one night to there flat, most if not all of Macaques stuff is gone.

- where as if this was the ShadowPeach side, Macaque leaves all of his possession in the flat he and wukong share. for the simple reason being, he still loves him and wants to go back, but Macaque being Macaque can’t bring himself to do it, especially after seeing just how hurt Wukong looked when he yelled at him just before he left.

- in other words, ANGST DIALED UP TO A 10 BABY

- in either case, its a news report that confirms Wukong's suspicions that he desperately didn’t want to believe, and that is Macaque turning into a villain.

- much like if the two were brothers, Wukong just can’t take it and is no longer as active as he once was, and is thinking about, either A) Retirement B) Saying, “Fuck Society, Be Gay Do Crime” and join Macaque as a villain himself, or C) find a successor, and a way to bring Macaque back to there side, but most importantly, back to him.

- also extra points if you're after people's hearts and want to make them suffer; - If there dating, Wukong curle’s up in the bed he and Macaque shared, holding/wearing something of great value to Macaque and just crying himself to sleep, where as Macaque is getting wasted on alcohol, as he stumbles out of the bar he’s in, he either see’s something that reminds him of Wukong or while he’s trying to put his wallet back into his pocket, a photo of them on their first date fall’s out. and Macaque just cries in a nearby alley way. And it’s there where he gets indoctrinated into the League.

- If there just friends, macaque heads to the nearest forest and just levels it, where as Wukong just gets engrossed into his work, trying not to think about it. you could add you own spin on this, again i'm just spitballing.

- NOW BACK TO MK! :D

- Obviously MK is a huge Monkey King fan

- at Twenty MK has come to terms he's quirkless (HE’S NOT)

-for ANGST reasons MKs fokes kicked him out at this realization at 13.

- he works at Piggsy's Noodle shop, and has been since he was 14.

- don't need a quirk to drive or cook!

- the boy lives a content life with his new family, till DBK happens :D

- DBK runs a Mafia(in conjunction with TLOV) and has been in jail for like 5 years thanks to Monkey King, PIF and RS brake him out one night when MK's out making a late night delivery since Piggsy had the bright idea to go 24/7 service!

- one thing leads to another and Mk somehow manifest what looks like the Monkey King's staff, but its not, it’s MKs powers, it just so happens to be the same power the Monkey King has. And it practically goes down the same way in the pilot.

- but unlike the pilot Mk and Mei go straight to the FF Agency, after making a panicked call to Pigsy and Tang.

- one way or another Mk are lead into Wukongs office. Mei being forced to stay in the lobby.

- they have there convo, butterfly monkey squishing included.

- "And so, I want you do be my success-" BOOM 💥

- from there they rush downstairs and see that the lobby has been infiltrated by the DB fam, and you know fight.

- once the DB family seems like there down, PIF wisks them away. Much to Monkey King’s displeasure.

From there stuff kind plays out like cannon, the calabash ep is just a conjoint quirk the Demon bros have. As for EP9, ill have to script that one out myself lol. I'll get onto it as soon as my will to commit stabs me in the face. Till then have a dancing Kermit the frog.

Now if you'll excuse me, am about to Kermit a felony :D

(For legal reasons thats a joke)

Psst @writingamongther0ses its done

#lego monkie kid #monkie kid #lego monkie kid au #rip a dip dip wrights

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dkettchen · 5 years

Text

BLACK MIRROR S5E1 “STRIKING VIPERS” E X P L A I N E D

-with the help of gender and game theory-

Y’all asked for it so here we go

Some things before we start: -If you were watching the episode looking for gay/trans shit, and got disappointed, I’m sorry but I can’t help you because that’s just not what the episode was about and that is ok. It explored some aspects of queer experience, and the limbo between queer and cis-straight experience, that isn’t usually addressed in such an honest and indepth way, which I think is just as important as trans or gay rep. -I will focus my analysis on the core theme of what certain academics writing about androgyny call the “moment of transgression” so in this case the question of ‘what is Karl/Roxette’s deal & what does that mean for Danny/Lance’s feelings toward and interactions with them?’. -CW: transphobia, homophobia, toxic masculinity, (rpg) uncanny valley stuff, you get it, you know what subjects we’ll be talking about here.

Now!

I’d like to start by pointing out the title “Striking Vipers” to get the phallus talk out of the way right off the bat x’D: It’s a very blatant penis metaphor, and Vipers specifically are venomous, so represent toxic masculinity. The image of them striking signals danger. The repetition of phallic symbols represents the threat of castration (see medusa turning them bois to stone & the heroic masculinity of the mirror shielded boi who managed to defeat her), which to phallocentric masculinity is the scawiest thing there is (losing the phallus = losing manhood = death?? I guess??). Striking Vipers means that toxic masculinity, by nature, is a threat to itself. (I could talk for hours about the exact warped logic of phallocentricity but Imma spare y’all cause I don’t think it’s relevant for this, I’d even go as far as saying this episode was anti-phallic (which I use here as a more inclusive word for “feminist”, as the episode’s core is about two guys, but still focused on them experiencing and embracing feminine power and freeing themselves from phallocentricity(/patriarchy)’s grasp, just like “what men want” was preoccupied with the toxic masculinity of its female protagonist)) That sets up the kind of horror the episode will be about, the male fear of castration, of loss of identity, of having to face the fact that traditional masculinity is toxic even to the people who conform to it. 10/10 title choice.

Next up: the core question of what label to put on Karl and Danny’s VR interactions (‘Fellas, is it gay to fuck ur best friend in a lady body in VR?’). Which leads to the first question which is: what gender is Karl when he’s playing as Roxette? An essentialist might say: ‘Well he’s a man irl so he’s still a man even if he plays with a female avatar. Danny’s attraction to him is either him being trapped or just plain old gay.’ But I don’t think that’s the case. It’s not a trap scenario (have some videos on traps and how they’re not real actually: (x.), (x.)), because both people involved know the exact parameters of the situation. Danny knows this is Karl in Roxette’s body, there’s nothing hidden, no misunderstanding to be had here. I also don’t think it’s gay because if it was this would’ve happened irl or with two male avatars, but it only happened once one of them was in a female avatar, that was the change that made it happen. It’s not a fetishising phallic/trans women scenario either, because it’s the opposite, it’s a man’s mind in a woman’s body. There’s no doubt about Karl being a man irl, a queer man sure, but definetely a man. He’s just too into -womanhood while playing her for me to say he’s still male when he’s in that form, like Karl as Roxette isn’t a trans guy as a man’s mind in a female body usually would be (like f.e. Ranma 1/2), I also don’t think Karl as Roxette is an androgyne/non-binary/third term either, because again, he’s embracing her womanhood and the role that comes with it, to the extreme that is hetero PiV sex, too much. I’d argue what we see is the closest to the liberation and euphoria described by other queer men when doing drag, she’s just a more extreme version of drag, of crossplaying, making the fantasy real, wearing not only the clothes of a woman but the body too. Roxette as Karl’s avatar is an alter ego, who is female, so -on the risk of sounding like the biggest performativist since Judith Butler- Karl as Roxette presents as female, so, for all intents and purposes, is female in that moment, regardless of his irl persona maintaining his male gender outside of that.

But that wasn’t what we wanted to know, was it. Because even if, in the moment that Karl plays Roxette, we can say that person is female, that doesn’t eliminate the fact that Karl, outside of that, isn’t and that he’s still the one playing her. It’s the notion of how the player/actor/performer and avatar/character/persona aren’t the same thing and can have different relationships with someone in real life vs in the game, and how that can be confusing to think about because there is no clear line between the two, something that is called “bleed” in ludology(/game studies, from lat. ludus: game or school; referring to the gladiator schools in like the colosseum), despite their relationships being fundamentally different (in this case friendship irl vs passionate love in game). Take TAZ as an example: The McElroys are related, but in playing a trpg, the DM, usually Griffin, takes up the mantle of all NPCs in the game world, including love interests. Griffin played Julia, Kravitz, and Danny (different Danny lol), but he’s talking to his brother, except he isn’t, is he, cause it’s not Griffin talking and it’s not his brother responding, it’s two characters interacting. A similar uncanny valley can be found in actor/character bleed: Take Ludi and Pom (the actors for Lance and Roxette) in this one: like 80% of their screentime was spent making out or having fake sex. These actors aren’t dating (as far as I’m aware lol), this is their job, to fake love each other on screen, imagine having to do that with a coworker you feel nothing for. It’s the characters that feel something and you have to play that feeling (which is so meta at that point, they’re playing characters that are avatars being played by characters in the show). Also, talking of role-playing, can we appreciate the scene of Danny & Theo at the bar where they’re role-playing and she’s like that was hot and he’s like mental note bae’s into role-playing, because DAMN that foreshadowing of the erotic potential of roleplay as a concept.

But it’s not role-playing really either with Danny and Karl, is it? They’re playing in avatars other than themselves but they’re not fully a different person. They still very much feel the same just in a different form. Their emotions are real even though they might only apply to part of their experience, the in-game part. Yet they obviously take them seriously and personal and get influenced by them outside the game. Maybe the question is what is and is not role-playing? Where does the bleed start and end, and do we even need to know the answer to those questions? They answer those questions for themselves in the end by testing out their feelings irl to see if they track or not, fully ready for both possibilities (which 10/10 character development love it). They want clarity. It’s about the emotional limbo fantasy brings with it. It’s the same question “Are traps gay” is about. (Not the “Is it ok to feel attracted to androgynous ppl” one necessarily, but) “Does feeling attracted to the fantasy mean you feel attracted to the “real” thing underneath?” Are the feelings for the fantasy alone or also for the reality? Are they only applicable to the latter and does that change something about what you thought you knew about yourself? It’s a question about the fringe edges of limited/monosexuality and the very fabric of reality.

Let’s return to Karl to look at his experience as Roxette. We’ve established that she is female, but what is Karl while playing her? In the spirit of queer drag as liberating, it’s almost like he’s taking a break from being Karl when playing as her. Drag, crossplay, or this extreme version of it, functions as a break from the toxicity and limitations of traditional gender roles (so in this case traditional masculinity). It is freeing, though what does it free? Some genderless spirit inhabiting each person? But then how do you explain the firm gender identity lots of people, including for all we know Karl, experience in everyday life? As a trans person I know that there is SOMETHING to gender on some level that can create gender dysphoria (social and/or physical) for people when put in a body they don’t identify with. As a drag performer, trpg enthousiast, and notorious crossplayer, I know that taking a break from that reality and being somebody else can be relieving, a break from your own problems. So what is that part of us that translates into fantasy? I feel like this goes into transhumanist territory which I don’t know enough about to even attempt to provide an answer. I think what it comes down to in terms of gender theory is, this is a situation at the height of where performativism is true and relevant. There is a relativity to the nature of reality and gender itself. Whatever base essence there is that causes gender dysphoria at a mismatch between outside and inside, doesn’t apply here. Both notions (of essential and performative gender) are real and have an impact on people but neither is always the case and neither is never the case. They’re not mutually exclusive.

So, seeing as it seems impossible to pinpoint what gender Karl/Roxette qualifies as (other than all and/or none), let’s look at the nature of Danny/Lance and Karl/Roxette’s interactions and feelings toward those interactions and each other to try and contextualise what label(s) they might fit under. The desire on Danny’s side when faced with Roxette’s form shows itself in a way he’d never feel toward Karl. That visual change, and the social changes it brings with it (in gender role), makes it so extreme, because it pairs the parts of his friend he appreciates and enjoys (personality and whatever deeper connection a close friendship brings with it), with a form that is attractive to him. That change translates to Karl too. In playing with this new form that has a different role and a different effect on someone he’s known for so long, he flows into that, melts into this new persona and lives it up! The way they interact in game isn’t gay. It is very much reflecting how straight attraction and female sexuality works. On one hand it’s based in undeniable difference (hetero = different), and on the other hand Karl/Roxette’s enjoyment thereof is based in being desirable, in having that power of seduction just by existing, that notion of feminine power and the freedom that comes with it. It’s not autogynephilia, that would imply he gets off on the idea of himself as a woman, which is not the case, he gets off on being desired as a woman, which is what female sexuality is about (source: ContraPoints’ Autogynephilia video (which I recommend, it’s very good))

Still whenever Karl tries to get Danny to keep having VR sex with him/Roxette, he talks about her in 3rd person, like a persona. In saying “it’s just like porn” he poses something that is very much a different activity (acting out the porn by -doin’ it-) as a homosocially (social as opposed to sexual/romantic) acceptable one (watching porn together which I’ve been told is a thing). He attempts to differentiate himself from his female persona and enjoyment there-of (by objectifying her, like a porn actress to be watched rather than identified with), himself and Danny from the queerness (in enjoying femininity and in Danny being down with basically fucking a drag-queen) and to retreat back into heteronormative traditional masculinity, away from the scawy unknown of exploring your sexuality. His internalised homo- and transphobia makes him suppose that Danny, as a supposed straight guy, will only respond to the safety of assured non-queerness, which, honestly, I don’t think is the case with him. Karl supposes his cancelling on him and not wanting to do it anymore is out of the fear for his sexual identity or whatever, but from what I can tell, while Danny also seems to be rather confused about what it all means, the reasons he cancels their nightly sessions, and rejects Karl/Roxette, are always about not wanting his marriage to fall apart. He quite clearly prefers hot VR sex to hanging out with his wife, and cancels out of duty to her rather than fear. Even the first time they kiss, Karl is the one to freak out first. Danny seems much calmer about the attraction part of the situation, to the point of in the end being the one to take initiative and make them try it out irl to put an end to the confusion.

The episode hits hard because it takes the way men play video games and brings it to its logical conclusion. Video games are mens safe-space, and they do play with that playful flirty banter. The show takes that and makes it real, including taking it to its extreme conclusion that is -doin’ it-. It infiltrates the male safe space by taking normalised behaviour, and taking it so far that it puts traditional masculinity and heteronormative attraction in question, the very thing the safe space was supposed to protect them from. That’s why it’s existentially horrifying for the main characters (and viewers that identify with them) and qualifies as a black mirror episode even without having a homo-/trans-/biphobic ending (like other media that put traditional masculinity in question usually do, not to mention all the horror based in queer-coding)

Hope y’all enjoyed this journey into a bit of mind-bending game and gender theory! Pls don’t expect me to do this like ever again bc I need to go work on my actual essay rip x’D

#long post #Black Mirror #BM: Striking Vipers #games studies #gender studies

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bartsugsy · 6 years

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I think it would give them loads more to do? Like, how does Sebecca staying give Robron plotlines? They've hit a real lull in terms of where they can be taken, and I think losing Seb, after both of them falling for him so hard would open up so much potential for them as a family. I'd watch it, just because it would give Ryan a chance to do sheer anguish, which he does beautifully. And it would potentially give Liv and Aaron storylines as well. Plus Rossbecca deserve a happy ending.

it would certainly give them something to do, can’t argue with that one - although i don’t really see how seb and rebecca staying closes off the opportunity for robron to have storylines at all? whenever their next storyline actually kicks off

(and dear god let it be soon we’ve done our waiting)

((.........every time i say this i feel the need to point out that it’s insane given how much story they’ve had relative to most of the other characters over the past few years but i’d also like to make it known that i don’t care and it’s what they deserve))

(((i know who i am)))

whenever their next story kicks off, it really doesn’t have to be seb related bc yk... the baby cupboard exists and is put into regular use for a reason. soap couples have babies, it’s how they keep the population going. this isn’t new or even particularly challenging for writers - they’re pretty much free to give characters whatever storylines they want, regardless if there’s childcare that should be involved.

basically what i’m saying is that i’m pretty sure robert and aaron not currently having a storyline is independent to the fact that they’re now raising a baby, it just so happens that those two things occurred at the same time. my personal view has also always been that robron needed these months of being relatively happy and healthy and with not an awful lot going on, just to... almost narratively validate why they fought so hard for their relationship in the first place? if they were instantly thrown into turmoil it would almost sort of pose the question of what they fought for in the first place, imo - given that their relationship during the affair era and then boyfriend/engagement/first wedding era was so up and down, so fraught. every time they had focus it was typically because they were breaking up for a day (or a year asklfsdj). they had so many on/off moments that it literally made me start a series of posts documenting and counting all of their break ups.

the fact that they’ve had months of happiness together, coexisting peacefully, talking through their shit and dealing with issues together as they arise, holding their little family together etc. just sort of... proves that there’s something there to hold onto, i guess? you can’t look at the way they’ve been this year and not understand that they can make a relationship work and know how to be together.

which is great, because it opens up once more space for them to slip a little and fuck up a little - bc this is a soap and soaps love getting their drama from lies, misunderstandings, whatever.

i don’t actually know if i’m explaining my point properly sorry aslkfsd.

basically - they’ve had months of being happy together and tying their lives together even more than they’ve already done.

between that and the fact that really, they’ve pretty solidly had a long-term storyline in place the whole time they’ve been around, save for probably a couple of months here and there, means that i feel like its understandable why they’d not be massively active right now (even if i think some things could benefit from them having more involvement) and i don’t particularly see how/why that would have anything to do with seb and rebecca

except ok - it makes sense that they wouldn’t have a new storyline of their own when there’s still the lachlan and rebecca stuff to tie up that at least involves robert (and should involve aaron more frankly) (one might think he’d never even stuffed lachlan in a boot smh)

but regardless.... seb being around doesn’t really, in my opinion, have an impact on what they can do with aaron and robert in terms of a new storyline

rossbecca should get a happy ending bc they’re cute, but there’s nowhere near enough groundwork for me to be satisfied with them running off into the distance together (UNLESS they go with my scenario i used the other day whereby both rebecca and ross are forced to go on the run for different reasons and end up sticking together to do so and go off to have insane and magical adventures while they fall in love) (i’d be really into that i would literally read fic about their dramatic adventures)

and i don’t really think they have enough time to make it convincing as to why rebecca and ross would just hop off together, particularly when there’s moses to think about as well. ross also just isn’t the sort of character who should go out on a happy, sort of lacklustre note. he’s had a dramatic enough life in the village that he should go out with a bang, in my opinion.

(i mean, unless they wrote it really well. then maybe i could get behind rossbecca riding off into the sunset and taking a leap on a new life together, free from all the shit they’ve had to deal with in the village lol) (but they’d have to write it really well for me to feel satisfied with it)

idk. i certainly think that’s it’s time to give aaron and robert a storyline again. not that i’m biased. but it’s time. this is by far the longest period we’ve ever had of them not having an overarching story to tell (and so not really having a whole heap of a lot to do outside of supporting other stories/occasional more self-contained plots) and it’s gone on long enough 😂

but i don’t think the key to putting them back into a more central role in a storyline, thereby really giving them so meat to chew on and adding some real excitement and stakes back into the relationship, is to get rid of seb and rebecca. i think the key is literally to just give them a storyline.

which will happen at some point. hopefully their time on the backburner won’t be as long as ross’ was (because he was a heavily used character that basically had nothing to do for all of last year, up until the acid attack story). it just... all depends on when the producers and storyliners decide to do it i guess lmao. the fact that they’re popular certainly helps, but it doesn’t guarantee anything in terms of when they’ll come back to the forefront of the storytelling and get something much longer reaching to do.

i’m mentally sort of... waiting until the lachlan stuff is wrapped up and the wedding is done, but after that it’s anyone’s guess.

i’m still high key hopeful that danny and ryan having all their holidays at once over the summer means that, as they’d said earlier this year, they’ll be busy through the second half of this year. so.... like.... if they could... do that. give them a storyline and make them busy.... that would be..... ideal.....

@ emmerdale if u could please not wait too long thank u and good night xoxo

THIS GOT REAL OFF TRACK SORRY ANON my point is that yes seb not being biologically robert’s would indeed give them a (sad af) storyline but also there are a hell of a lot of other dramatic things they could decide to put robron through instead that would do the same thing

my preference is that seb sticks around bc he’s cute and the alternative is like... long term heartbreaking.... but also........ my number 1 preference is that they just give them a juicy and dramatic story again bc i was right last year when i said that happy couples are nice but they’re also, bless their beautiful hearts, not the most enthralling thing to watch long-term

i need the angst and drama in my life

(.................................if the new storyline could also not be breaking them up for 6 months again bc we just did that that would be great thx lov u emmerdale ok bye xoxoo)

(i dont think it will be but it’s good to just put out there that we dont want that for good measure ok)

(better safe than sorry)

(this got so off track)

#robron #long post #answering anons

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vampirecatboy · 6 years

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just in case you were wondering i’ve definitely planned out the exact scenario in which Vri proposes to Danny and it is So Cute

but if you think even for a second that i’ll spoil a scene that i want to include in my comic well hoo boy you are absolutely right, here we go:

i’ll say they’ve been dating at least 18 months, maybe 2 years, and like, they live together /kinda/, like it’s Danny’s apartment but Vri has stuff there, and he sleeps there pretty much always

but they decide it’s high time they get a place together, a bigger place with room for both of them and a second bedroom because future child??? maybe???? but for now it would be a guest room

so they go house hunting, and eventually find a nice, affordable place with enough room for both Danny /and/ Vri’s stuff, that they can live in when they’re not up in space

so the day they finalize everything, they get time alone in their new apartment, and Danny is gushing about how happy and excited he is about them living together for real, instead of Vri just sleeping over all the time

and Vri says he’s happy too, but “There’s something I need to tell you.”

this of course makes Danny a little nervous, because the last time Vri said that was right before he revealed his extraterrestrial origins, but tells Vri to continue

Vri says “I don’t want to live with my boyfriend.”

and Danny’s heart nearly stops, until Vri continues:

“I want to live with my husband.”

and for a split second Danny’s confused because like... has Vri been secretly married this whole time??

but then he realizes what’s actually happening

he can barely squeak out a “Vri, are you...”

and Vri takes his hands and asks “Danny, will you marry me?”

and it takes a moment for Danny to fully process the question, but once he does he just starts nodding cause he’s basically forgotten how to talk

Vri asks him “Is that a yes?” just to be sure

and Danny finally manages to actually say “Yes”

and then there’s embracing and kissing and laughing and Vri puts the ring on Danny’s finger

and then Danny has to lie down on the floor cause he’s just been through such a worldwind of intense emotions so like.... lol give him a second

and later when he calls his blf (best lesbian friend) Rachel to tell her, he finds out she /knew/ this whole time, because Vri told her like months in advance, way before they had even started looking for a place to live, he had been trying to find the right time to propose for almost a /full year/

so Danny gives Vri a (good-natured) wack on the arm like “It’s about god damn time.”

and then he goes and says he wants to get married on June 9th

you know

6/9

Vri’s able to talk him out of that, mostly because Danny was joking (mostly)

they eventually agree on July 1st, the anniversary of the day they met

#comm interference #as for the whole ''vri's an alien from space with no legal documents on earth'' thing well......#i have a couple ideas to work around that lol #fun fact: i started this post hours ago #it's not even that long i just kept getting distracted lmao #oc talk

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miss-m-calling · 4 years

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Juletide 2020 letter

Dear writer,

Hello and thank you for writing for me. I’m very excited to read whatever you come up with.

Without further ado…

Starred Up

Oliver Baumer, Eric Love

Yes I do ship it, I do, I do!

Ahem. Don’t get me wrong, I liked what the movie did with the father-son relationship and its influence on both men’s character development – but I really wish they hadn’t got Oliver out of the action before the story’s climax (not like that!). The final denouement with Love father and Love son was great, as was the hint at the end that Eric learned something in anger-management group and has a support network that will help him a lot. But. I would have wanted to see more of the intriguing dynamic between Eric the intelligent, semi-feral, yet not-incorrigible, young thug and Oliver the educated, dedicated, kind yet aware of his own potential for violence (what was he on about with “I need to be here”?), slightly older counselor. They had me at Oliver’s “I want him” and Eric later telling his father that Oliver’s a better man than Love Sr. Also the not-flirting and the push-pull in the scene when Oliver picks up Eric from his cell - yowza!

For this canon, my dubcon DNW does not apply.

Prompts:

-I would love to see Oliver return to holding his group in prison, so the two of them can interact more, either in the movie’s immediate aftermath or years down the line, as it’s implied that Eric will be serving a long sentence. Give me more scenes from anger management or the ribald, honest, free-flowing conversations in group, either with the other men present (I liked Hassan and Tyrone especially, among the group members) or a one-on-one session.

-An oblique or open-but-undramatic admission/declaration that they both know there’s something there, even if they don’t know what to do with it. Or, one or both of them knows exactly what to do with it, and the push-pull that would result from that.

-Dirty talk: used for arousal, as a defense mechanism, as a form of flirtation. Eric using slurs to assert dominance, and Oliver not letting him hide behind profanity, when he can use colorful language to express emotion and/or sexual interest. There could definitely be some verbal taunting/flirting about who wants/is eager to do what or is good at doing something. There may be some sniping comments about logistics and (lack of) condoms and barebacking and what men get up to in prison. There probably wouldn’t be deep discussions about sexual identity.

-An emergency in the prison requires a lock-down, so Oliver gets temporarily stuck in Eric’s cell or another room with only Eric for company. Things get porny and/or emotional.

-Eric is eventually released (you can handwave this so it happens soon after the movie or have it happen years later) and crashes with Oliver while he adjusts to the outside world. You guessed it: things get porny and/or emotional.

-How do they get to the point where both can cross that line from friends/whatever the hell they are and become, to lovers? (There’s Eric’s personal history and general discomfort with vulnerability, plus all the ways prison sex can be or make things complicated, and if it helps, I headcanon Oliver as either gay or bi and at least somewhat closeted, at work especially.) Who initiates and “directs traffic”? How does their always-contentious dynamic shift during and after sex? Is the sex an isolated (series of) occasion(s), or a progression/escalation over multiple encounters (how would I love especially an escalating series of encounters, let me count the ways)? Eric might seem like the logical initiator and/or dominant partner as well as using the possibility of sex to manipulate and exert control, but then Oliver might (or might not!) surprise him and is definitely the one more in touch with himself as well as aware of his custodial duty toward the men in the group.

-At some point in their intimate relationship (probably not right at the start, and probably not in prison, though if you can make it happen in prison, more power to you!), Oliver decides he’s going to take his sweet time and make Eric fall absolutely apart with pleasure, while using dirty talk to both arouse and empower Eric to own his desires – by that point, Eric is in a place where he can let that happen and enjoy it, even if he still talks tough.

-Role reversal: Oliver as the con (jittery, shut off, sticking out like a sore thumb in prison with all his fancy learning, yet no pushover) and Eric as the newbie counselor (kid from the wrong side of the tracks made good? Youthful hoodlum turned around his life, now trying to help others via tough love and lots of swearing and maybe a bit of manipulation when called for?)

Witchblade (TV) Sara Pezzini, Danny Woo

I used to love this show back in the day, and loved it again in all its hokey gloriousness when I rewatched it recently. Sara figuring things out and being a principled badass, but maybe out of her depth with the Witchblade, and her dynamic with Danny, whether he's a ghost or alive, it’s all catnip to me. Sara is not extremely quippy, she has a job to do dammit! and don’t look at her vulnerable side, just don’t look at it!, and I love that about her (she’s much harsher in S1, after Danny’s death, than in S2); ditto that Danny is somewhat softer than she is, but still can hold his own thanksverymuch (well, when the plot doesn’t require him to get nabbed by bad guys) and has a bit of a deadpan snarker side too. I’d love something that plays around with their canon dynamic from either season, or uses canon as just a starting point. Some of my prompts lean dark or horror-y, so don’t be shy about going there; I’d also enjoy a story in which the Witchblade itself ends up not being very significant (say, they start to investigate a possibly mystical case and then nope, plain murder). Canon-specific DNW: Irons and any version of Nottingham appearing (you can mention them if you need to).

Prompts:

-The Witchblade is more parasitic than symbiotic, and instead of Sara learning to control it, its feeding on Sara affects her more and more over time. Or, the visions and dreams ramp up into full-blown paranoia and/or disassociation. The Witchblade's POV, maybe (it is sentient)? Asking for help is the hardest thing for someone like Sara, but what are (more than) friends for? I’d also enjoy a dubcon scenario (exception to blanket DNW) where Sara really shouldn’t be having sex when her head is all messed up by the Witchblade’s influence, but… well… they do. The Witchblade canonically enjoys violence and bloodshed perpetrated by its wearers, so it stands to reason that it might lower other inhibitions too.

-Witchblade v. mythological monsters. In S1, even with everything else that's going on, Sara absolutely scoffs at the possibility of vampires. So of course I want: Witchblade v. vampires! The scarier and more feral, the better. Or, it's implied that the Witchblade was forged from a meteorite, so it's basically an eldritch artefact from outer space. Yes, please lean all the way into the Lovecraftian tropes! (The moon is turning red, the Old Ones are back, it’s the end of the world as we know it, but Sara’s got her partner by her side.) Or something from Chinese mythology, so Danny can kick extra ass. Or, for a silly take on Chinese culture: Sara and Danny in the world of Big Trouble in Little China (another old fave of mine, the entire plot of which revolves around… a woman with green eyes and an unwanted connection to the supernatural).

-The Witchblade has a reputation for abandoning its wearers just when they need it the most. True to form, it slips off of Sara’s fist, leaving her and Danny to save themselves with good old-fashioned guns, fisticuffs, martial arts, and of course having each other’s back.

-More of the psychedelic-ness in many of Sara’s fight scenes, where now she’s a woman in a leather jacket with a gauntlet on her arm, now she’s a knight in armor! Now her opponent is human, now he’s a wolf-shaped spirit of evil and hatred! Playing around with the characters’ senses and perceptions – yes!

-Instead of seeing only Danny and needing him to play intermediary for Sara to talk to other ghosts, the Witchblade makes Sara see ghosts all over the place, and it's getting to her. Ghost!Danny may or may not help with that. Or, ghost!Danny is basically always around, whether Sara can see him or not. He manifests when Sara is masturbating, and you can't really feel guilty if the ghost of your dead partner whom you’ve always had a thing for helps you out, and anyway you’re probably going crazy and none of this is real, so it doesn’t count anyway... right?

-Case fic/stakeouts and banter. Flirting to pass the long and stressful days at work. Quick and guilty sex because Danny's married. Slow and intense sex if handwave he's not married but “oh noes we’re partners, we shouldn’t be doing this, but somehow we keep doing it anyway.” Hooking up in the car. I've always headcanoned that they had a thing pre-canon which ended for Reasons, but they both kinda wish it hadn't, hence the hand kissing, and the “I can’t even touch you,” and the coffee bringing/stealing, etc. So feel free to play around with that.

-Undercover as married, undercover as a gangster and his moll (LOL at Sara as a moll, or have Sara as the gangster and Danny as her arm candy), undercover as “they think we’re fucking, better fake it real good for the people listening in, oops shit got real fast, careful don’t say each other’s real name or you’ll blow your cover.”

-More timey-wimey shenanigans with the Witchblade. Maybe it allows Sara to manipulate time more than once. Maybe she starts doing it way too often, throwing the continuum out of whack (something non-linear would be very interesting). Maybe she and/or Danny remember some or all of what happened in S1. Something about all the multiverse versions of them, possibly splitting off from a dramatic moment. Time loops and feelings are a combustible mix.

-Apart from the super obvious shippiness, what I like about S1 especially is how Sara rolls with the weirdness the Witchblade has brought into her life, instead of reaching for rational explanations. More of that (I can't think of a better way to put it), and double extra brownie points if alive!Danny figures out at least some of what's going on with Sara's bracelet and somehow gets in on the action. Maybe a Danny saves the day divergence? Or how about a loophole that allows a man close to the Witchblade's wearer to wield it temporarily, but There Is a Price to Pay.

킹덤 | Kingdom (TV 2019)

Prince Lee Chang, Seo-bi

I fell so hard for this show. So hard! The beautiful production values, the wonderful cast, how the characters develop, how the show slowly but surely unfolds one reveal after another and packs so much into two short seasons, all the period detail, the genuinely tense action scenes, the moments of humor and intense emotion, the intertwining of political intrigue and zomg! really scary zombies, how the zombie outbreak works on multiple levels both literal and metaphorical…

I love the brave, kind-hearted, but sheltered prince, whose whole life has been so privileged yet shadowed by the possibility of death if he loses his position as heir, learning what it means to actually rule and lead people, to protect them and be protected by them in turn. And I love Seo-bi the fearless, dedicated, selfless physician, who notices things and figures things out regardless of whether this annoys the people in power. I ship them, but I also love their platonic interactions, how instantly and fiercely loyal she is to him (not just because he’s the crown prince, but because she’s seen how brave and altruistic he can be) and how he immediately takes her advice and experience seriously despite her being a woman and a commoner in this super-hierarchical setting. So I’m good with either / or & for this pairing, and you can work with any of my prompts accordingly. In a / fic, I’d even be good with a totally sublimated, “they both must kinda know what’s going on between them but for reasons of both their personalities and their respective genders and social positions, nothing overt ever gets said or done” scenario! So don’t stress too much over which flavor of dynamic you write for them.

Also, I love most of the cast (not a huge fan of Chancellor Cho, but he is an effective antagonist), and would be delighted to see any of them in fic too. Especially the loyal and funny and badass Mu-yeong (he was loyal, despite the Haewon Cho clan’s blackmail, and if you want to diverge from canon so he lives, I would not mind that at all), the even more badass and wounded and snarky Yeong-sin (or is that “Yeong-sin”???), Chang’s sparky, exiled uncle several times removed, and the terrifying and frankly unhinged young queen are my favorites. I even have a soft spot for that mostly-useless coward Cho Beom-pal, but really, they’re all great and I would love reading about them too, or just about the prince and the lady physician – whatever works!

Finally, before I get to prompts, I know a bit about the Joseon period, but we’re talking the bits and pieces I remember from a college class, and what I’ve read on Wikipedia and picked up from this and other Korean movies and shows. I know a bit more about some of the cultural background, like the Confucian values, the social stratification and feudal system, the gender segregation among the aristocracy, the wars with Japan, but again – my knowledge is limited. So if you want to teach me stuff about Joseon, go for it! If you want to invent or handwave stuff, as long as it fits the canon’s mood and broad cultural parameters, go for it! And if you want to treat me to some worldbuilding, period detail of any kind, and/or costume porn, definitely go for it.

Prompts:

Zombie fighting anything! Learning to survive in a society that’s rapidly breaking down, having to transcend their habitual social roles and challenging each other, anything! Maybe one of them teaches the other to hunt, or to make herbal medicines, or to fight with a sword, or heck, to cook or clean dirty clothes. (FYI I wrote most of these prompts before I was quite done with S2, and the time-skip took me totally by surprise. So while my prompts ignore Chang renouncing the throne, I’d also be down for the untold adventures of the former prince and his traveling companions, as Chang learns how to be just regular folks and they pursue clues about the resurrection flower, or for your take on what happens in S3. Use whatever works for you in my prompts in any way you want!)

Figuring out how the zombie infection continues to evolve and/or working together to find a cure beyond dunking the infected in water – whether that means to destroy large numbers of the undead, or to develop an antidote, or to cure and bring back those afflicted. One plot detail that really struck me: more experimenting with zombies, like Chancellor Cho started to do, might also hold the key to a cure?

Political intrigue anything! Having to fight zombies and/or factions at court with both friends and unexpected allies (not gonna lie, I would have loved to have seen the young queen unleashed on some zombies, even if that did not make her the prince and Seo-bi’s ally).

More road trip/survival/battle goodness – maybe Seo-bi offers Lee Chang some advice while they’re navigating their new situation, or she witnesses him developing his leadership muscles, and it brings them closer together than before. Or maybe a moment of humor, relaxation, or quiet affection on the road or in between zombie-slaying, especially if it catches them both a bit by surprise. Or one of them gets a non-zombifying injury (nothing too gruesome or life-threatening, please!) and the other one has to care for them – extra points if Seo-bi is injured and the prince kind of bumbles through the most basic things so she has to talk him through her own treatment. Or nightmares/being triggered by something, like we saw both Chang and Seo-bi react at the sounds of zombies growling and people screaming in S2E5.

We have seen Seo-bi insist on staying loyal to the prince, and Lee Chang rely on her repeatedly to the exclusion of all his other people – give me a situation in which he has to make clear his own loyalty to her, as a part of both his becoming a better leader and as a step in advancing their relationship. Or, there comes a time when Seo-bi really pushes against the rules of what someone like she can and cannot say or do to/around a crown prince – we’ve seen Lee Chang refuse to stand on his dignity to the point where so many of his interactions with commoners would end in the commoners’ death, but I imagine even he has his limits, and that kind of clash can only drive this dynamic forward!

Canon divergence in which Seo-bi gets sent to the capital and assigned to be the personal physician to the petulant, frustrated prince we meet at the start of the show (handwave the gender segregation and impropriety). She knows her place, but she also does not suffer fools or male nonsense. Sparks fly, social conventions get tested, zombies may or may not happen, and a new mutual understanding is born.

Canon divergence from the scene in S2E2 when Seo-bi finagles her way to being allowed to see the prince and he instructs her to resurrect Ahn Hyeon – what if instead of that, they came up with another plan of escape? Or maybe Lee Chang sending Seo-bi to spy on the queen goes a different way than in canon? And really, anything that requires those two to pass secret messages while grabbing each other’s hands and staring intently into each other’s eyes is A++ with me!

One theme which emerges gradually, and I really loved, is people having to compromise their principles to survive and ensure the safety of those they feel loyal and/or obliged to: Ahn Hyeon agreeing to turn the sick villagers into zombies, dear Mu-yeong having been a spy but also protecting the prince all along, Seo-bi resurrecting Ahn Hyeon, Lee Chang instructing her to do it as well as his thousand-yard-stare after having to finish off what’s left of his father… I’d love to see more such compromises, how their consequences ripple out, and the emotional fallout.

In addition to zombies, other magical and/or supernatural events and creatures start to appear in Joseon. If you want to bring in something from Buddhist mythology or Korean folklore, please do, and any and all worldbuilding would be awesome. One possibility that occurs to me – and I’m going for broke here – is: a dragon awakes in his cave and shit starts hitting the fan.

Post-canon something in which Lee Chang is king, possibly of only a part of the country (maybe a zombie-free enclave, or a part he won in a civil war against the Cho clan or a cadet branch of his family), and Seo-bi is there as his advisor, physician, and unofficial chancellor. Gimme policymaking to deal with the lingering zombie issue, and assassination plots, and servants/guards/ladies in waiting gossiping like it’s their real job, and all the palace intrigue!

Kind of related to the previous: even as a “spare” prince, Lee Chang can’t marry a commoner. Would he ever think to offer Seo-bi to become his concubine? I don’t think she’d go for it, and he might realize it, but maybe I’m wrong! Or maybe being intensely platonic at each other is as good as it gets for them, and they’re kind of okay with that. Or they get married in secret and have to very careful not to let slip anything by word on gesture in public, or not to let Seo-bi get pregnant. Or, y’know, one day or night on the road or in a fortified town, in between scavenging for supplies and fighting zombies, they decide to bone just because their lives are weird enough now to forget about propriety and all that jazz for an hour.

Role reversal: Seo-bi is the sheltered, willful princess fearful for her position (especially since she’s a woman as well as the daughter of a concubine only) and Lee Chang is the proper yet willful provincial physician. Do they meet as in canon, or under different circumstances (maybe she must flee the court to escape assassins, accusations of treason, or an arranged marriage, with or without bonus zombies)? How would their dynamic be complicated (and made awesome of course!) by the gender reversal? Also, burning question: does Princess Seo-bi already know how to fight (because she forced Mu-yeong to teach her back at court, of course), or does she have to learn once zombies/brigands/insurrection/whatever happen? And does Physician Lee Chang know one end of a musket or sword from another, or does he need rescuing at some point?

I realize that some of these prompts could work as well (better?) as a no-zombies AU, and that’s fine if you want to take it in that direction. Just so we’re clear. J

Likes:

I love pre-canon, canon, post-canon, canon-divergent, and missing-scene stories. I love character-driven and plot-driven stories equally, and I love fics which mix humor and angst/serious business when appropriate for the canon.

I love stories about characters at work and play, group dynamics, family dynamics (including constructed families), professional partnerships, friendships, alliances, rivalries, intimate couples (new lovers/first times as well as long-term/established couples), UST-ridden couples who are not just UST-ridden but connected in other ways too, etc.

I love irony, snark, humor as well as angst arising from the characters rather than the plot crowbaring it in, linear, non-linear, and 5+1 stories, hopeful endings, happy endings, bittersweet endings, worldbuilding, spiky characters who keep their jagged edges and spikiness in adversity as well as when their lives are going well, square-peg-in-round-hole characters, characters who are their own worst enemies as well as those who can get over themselves when the occasion calls for it, characters with conflicting values which may or may not be reconciled/resolved, characters who treat each other with respect and as equals even if they hate/annoy/can’t stand/love to dislike each other.

I especially love workplace stories (this can mean anything from an actual workplace/casefic/procedural setting to anything that revolves around the canon world in which the characters live) in which the characters are competent and dedicated to the job, and while they may not be exactly friends and they may well irritate one another, they still manage to rub along to get the job done and maybe even grow to care about one another (much to their surprise and sometimes reluctance/discomfort). Or, if they can’t get along, show me why not and what’s preventing them from finding common ground.

In terms of ship dynamics, I love (where it fits the characters) banter, competitiveness or antagonism shading into attraction (this tension need not be resolved), oh-god-why-did-it-have-to-be-you-what-did-I-do-to-deserve-this, bickering yet loving couples, characters who are serious about their romantic interests, characters who think they are much better at flirtation than they actually are, characters forced to work together only to prove much more compatible than they initially assumed, fics which mix an exploration of characters’ professional and everyday lives with shipping. A dynamic I cannot resist is shipping a couple who are incompatible in some important way (they are ideological enemies, cop and criminal, spies from opposite sides, one betrayed the other or they betrayed each other), and while they love and want each other they’re also not willing to change sides or surrender/compromise their identity for the other’s benefit, and how they might (or not) make their relationship work anyway.

I don’t have any very specific likes for smut, other than smut fitting the characters – show me how their canon dynamics spill over into the bedroom (or other place of congress). I also like sexual scenarios that subvert expectations a little and surprise the characters themselves (e.g., the person who’s usually quiet or more passive taking charge, the more aggressive person goes with it possibly snarking or commenting on it as long as they can). And I like sexual scenarios that contain an element of competition, antagonism, oh-god-this-is-a-bad-idea-but-we’re-going-for-it-hammer-and-tongs, not wanting to admit feelings or show vulnerability except oops it happens anyway, whether the characters acknowledge it or not, or just people getting way more into it or being more affected by it than they thought they would. When it fits the characters and their canon dynamic, you also can’t go wrong with we-both-wanted-this-for-forever-and-now-we-both-know-it-so-here-we-go-diving-in-headfirst. For het and/or slash, oral, vaginal, anal incl. pegging, manual (ifyouknowwhatImean) – it’s all good. You can go as veiled or as explicit as you like, but please avoid excessive medical jargon – I don’t find a lot of mention of “penis” or “clit” sexy.

DNWs:

MPREG, A/B/O, knotting, D/s, kinks, incest, underage, genderswap/genderbent characters, xeno, non-/dub-con, torture and abuse (this and non-/dub-con can be mentioned if the story needs it, but please don’t dwell on it in loving detail or subject any of my requested characters to it), dwelling on bodily fluids (mentions of gore/blood and come are fine), toilet humor, character bashing, issuefic, gender/sexuality/race/ethnicity/religion/ability/identity headcanons, unrequested ships, soulmates and soul marks, major character death (the exception is Laura Moon in American Gods dying so she can become undead), serious illness or injury, pregnancy and children, holiday or wedding setting/theme, secondary characters shipping the main pair like it’s their job, reference to RL current events, 1st/2nd person POV, unrequested crossovers or fusions, AUs which have nothing to do with canon

#dear author letter #juletide 2020

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fadedtoblue · 7 years

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so what are your thoughts on elektra's arc in defenders

Wow, no way to give a short answer here, so I guess I’ll just jump in haha. Spoilers abound, obviously!

Overall, and there’s really no way for me to be truly objective about this gut response, but Elektra’s arc kicked all sorts of ass for me and I was thrilled to see her be given this level of focus in the storyline. I have to admit it’s not something I ever expected from the series.

That being said, I think there were some definite mistakes made and things I wish they had done better…so let me run through a quick list of those, and then follow up with my list of highlights :).

Things that could have been better:

No significant Black Sky payoff. This was one of my biggest personal disappointments with the storyline. The limitations of the way they set up the Netflix universe leading up to this team up show really showed in this one…I have a feeling whatever they were planning for the Black Sky and the Hand in DD S1 got totally derailed by the time they got to Defenders, what with all the retconning of the Hand mythology to fit the K’un-Lun storyline. I’m not sure if this is because the individual shows had too much leeway with how they set up their individual character origins and storylines or how much input they get from high up to keep the plotting consistent…my impression was the former, and as a result, it seems like the Defenders’ writers were tasked to pick up all of the disparate pieces and just try to fit it into one semi-coherent storyline, with mixed results. Given how much they leaned into the Iron Fist stuff as a huge part of the Hand stuff, I’m not sure why they didn’t just retcon the concept of the Black Sky into one where it’s the Hand’s own Immortal Weapon…that would have been pretty easy and at least lends consistency if you’re going down that route in the story. Ultimately though, if I could have done it, I would have done a flashback scene (or I mean, even just someone monologuing about it, whatever) to Alexandra’s past where she actually has the prophecy / vision of the Black Sky. Like, that tidbit in the conversation between Gao and Alexandra was SO intriguing and it’s like, what does that even mean??? It would have been a cool way to better establish both Alexandra – show us why she became the leader of the Fingers, let her do some cool fighting / getting her hands dirty, AND provide some context on why she’s obsessed with the Black Sky and what she intended to do with one once she got it – as well as Elektra’s role in the context of being a Black Sky – give us some clarity on what it means to be one, define her powers / abilities better, and maybe even shed some light on why she was able to break out of her brainwashing (like maybe the Black Sky was never meant to be a weapon, but was meant to be something else, I don’t know). But I don’t write for the show so whatever, lol.

Elektra’s motivations after she kills Alexandra were way too opaque. I think a lot of people were rightfully confused at where her arc was supposed to go, which is totally fair given how it unfolded. I feel like we could have used one more episode to flesh out what was going on but ultimately, I think there were two issues: the progression on the slow but steady turnaround on her character may have been too subtle, and second, there just wasn’t enough time in the last two episodes to properly map out a way to sensibly show what her real endgame was since they basically needed her to stand-in for the face of the other side and help get the story rolling on into the final act.

Here’s my general interpretation of what happened…

We know she was brought back as an empty vessel to become the ultimate weapon / killing machine for the Hand…I read a great description of this that compares Elektra’s resurrection as the Black Sky as the same as if you were to erase and reboot a phone, except this time you’ve unlocked EVERYTHING…this is the same for Elektra…she has these latent abilities that allow her to be an incredible weapon, but it took a very purposeful reboot to bring it out. Anyway, all is well and good until Elektra encounters a glitch in the programming…this glitch, of course, is Matt, and this tiny little crack in her system throws open the door to uncovering a side to herself that she had thought was lost…basically, her humanity. As she’s remembering / recovering, she’s also remembering what happened in her past life – and that was also used and trained to be someone’s weapon. That back then, just like now, she had no control and no say over her own life. And what she ultimately wants is to wrest back control from people who never viewed her as anything more than just an empty vessel for their desires, and to finally be able to control her own destiny.

So this is why it’s significant that she kills BOTH Stick and Alexandra – they may have both felt genuinely toward Elektra and treated her as a surrogate daughter, but they also made her do terrible things for their own ends. Killing them symbolizes her wresting back her agency and I think, to me, clearly shows that she is on no side but her own. Taking control of the Hand was really not supposed to be the main point or anything permanent aka ‘look I’m a bad guy!!’, imo…but I think it was both a self-preservation move (you’re not gonna kill the head of the ancient ninja cult and then try to take them ALL down without securing an out for yourself first and working with them guarantees you some more time to do that) as well as a bit of a lazy storytelling way to slot someone in as the leading antagonist heading into the final fight. I think her conversations with Danny clarifies that to some degree, but not as much as I would have liked.

The jump from here to the last fight is exactly why I think we needed one more episode of screen time to bridge the gap, but as to why she’d suddenly go from ‘I need to get more substance’ to ‘Let’s die here together’ – well, the whole last episode is setting up an impossible scenario for everyone involved. So we know the stakes are high and people gonna die. A newly independent Elektra without her humanity would have gotten everyone neutralized as quickly as possible and hauled ass out of that pit with some dragon bones and called it day. And that was probably her goal. But once the Defenders take the fight to the Hand in the bottom of the pit, and Elektra is face to face with Matt again…well, things get a little more muddled.

At some point, it seems that everyone left in that pit knows that they’re running out of time – Gao herself is so pragmatic about the damn thing that she doesn’t even attempt to bother getting out. I imagine Elektra has this knowledge too, and we know that she the one thing she doesn’t want is to go back to that dark place, to death…but the one thing that is perhaps a saving grace for her is that Matt is there too. Someone who can face the darkness with her. She probably thinks the only way to keep him there is to fight him, antagonize him, lie to him, but what she doesn’t realize is that he’s been ready this whole time to stay down there with her…and GAH, okay I gotta stop there.

SOOO yeah, basically, I think there was a plan there, but the writers didn’t do a super job connecting the dots at the end, mostly b/c of the limited time to get the last act rolling…this is my interpretation and I’m sticking to it :).

Okay, now things that were AWESOME:

All of Elektra’s fights!!! Omg so one of my major annoyances in DD S2 was that it really felt like they nerfed Elektra’s skill level on the show. On the one hand I understood that she’s a much younger, impetuous presence on the show than she is in the comics, but still, she should have been able to handle Yazuka goons with no issues. If it took becoming the Black Sky to activate OP Elektra mode then well, I’M HERE FOR IT!! She was such a badass and I loved every single moment she was fighting someone on screen. Of course there were inconsistencies with her level of Black Sky amplified abilities, but then again, that was an issue with all of the heroes. But ughhh she truly became the fighter I wanted to see on screen. And all of her fights with Daredevil / Matt were particular delights. I spar best with you!!!

Elektra regaining her agency!! As I mentioned above, I don’t think the writers did the best job they could in executing this storyline but all I wanted from this show was for Elektra to really take control of her life again and SHE DID IT. Just like I had predicted in this post here. It literally went down exactly as I had hoped it would hahah.

MCU Elektra inching closer to becoming comics Elektra. Okay so I had a lot of theories on how things were going to turn out for Elektra by the end of the show, my prevailing theories being based on what I thought I could expect from Marvel TV – either get the trite but not entirely unexpected ‘Elektra rediscovers her goodness and switches sides’ direction OR you get the ‘Matt angsting over Elektra but realizing she’s a lost cause and tries to kill her’ direction. My personal hope was that Elektra would wrest back her agency, ultimately survive the show (b/c killing her again would have been so dumb) and become a free agent, true neutral type of presence in the background of the Netflix Marvel universe, coming in to help bail out Matt’s ass from time to time on DD, but not necessarily having to operate in any romantic capacity, just a super skilled and reliable ally of Matt / Daredevil when he faces bigger antagonists. Given the unexpected level of Mattelektra in the show overall, I’m an optimistic fool and wondering if there may be more in the cards for them…but I’m not going to dwell too much on that now.

Elodie Yung!! The most awesome thing about Elektra’s arc was that we were blessed enough to have Elodie Yung cast as Elektra in the first place and the fact that she’s the head of the Mattelektra Protection Squad. I’ve always believed the role of Elektra could have become real hot garbage in a lesser actress’ hands but Elodie brings such thoughtfulness and presence to material that can sometimes be a little weak and potentially one dimensional. Her transformation over the course of the Defenders was such a treat to watch and I will love her forever. So yeah, I love Elodie as Elektra and I will love her as Elektra til the end of time.

AND THAT’S IT! Thanks for asking and making me write all of this out. This is a great way for me to continue emotionally processing everything that’s happened on the show lol.

#anonymous #asks #answers #elektra natchios #the defenders #marvel's the defenders #defenders spoilers #matt x elektra #mattelektra #matt murdock #text #my thoughts #mine #p talks about stuff

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