#anti stannis baratheon

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Sometimes I get the feeling that people in this fandom don’t understand the meaning of an oath.

The Asoiaf world may be fantasy, but it is still based on real-life medieval setting.

In European medieval times, the values of the Church were held in high regard, and a person’s word actually meant something. When someone made a promise/an oath, especially a noble, it was expected of that person to honor it. Failure to do so resulted in dire consequences.

It’s not like it is now in modern 21st century, when everyone makes promises they end up breaking eventually and it’s like *shrug* “oh well, too bad” and no consequences follow.

So, when the Lords of the Realm swore oaths to uphold the ascension of Rhaenyra Targaryen on the Iron Throne, they were not at all “stale” or “meaningless”, as Otto Hightower tries to argue (that’s modern mentality and kind of poor writing on the part of the showrunners). It’s a pledge made in the name of a House.

And just because some of the Lords who swore those oaths died, that doesn’t mean that those oaths died with them (as the Lannisters, who have no honor whatsoever, try to argue). The oaths were made on behalf of Houses, not individuals, and therefore, the Houses as a whole were expected to respect them.

The reason Rhaenyra Targaryen had most of the Realm on her side is because the majority of Westerosi Houses understand the meaning of an oath. They also acknowledge that with the absence of an actual succession law, Rhaenyra Targaryen is the rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.

#Something for Stannis Baratheon to chew on #He acts like the all mighty honorable guy who understands the law and does the right thing but he doesn’t understand anything #The Hightowers Lannisters and Baratheons are oath-breakers and a disgrace to the Realm #team black #pro team black #rhaenyra targaryen #queen rhaenyra #the dragon queen #asoiaf #hotd #house of the dragon #a song of ice and fire #fire and blood #the dance of the dragons #anti otto hightower #anti house lannister #the blacks #asoiaf meta #anti house hightower #anti stannis baratheon

[catofoldstones]

On that note, Selyse is not going to burn Shireen. It is going to be Stannis and Stannis alone. Who do you think is it going to be? A mother who has shown to be fiercely protective of her daughter even against only ill perceived dangers or a man having a history of burning people (even trying blood relatives) and who has a vested interest in burning royal blood and soon?

#yeah #selyse baratheon #selyse florent #shireen baratheon #anti stannis Baratheon #not to mention #grrrm has straight up said that stannis is going to burn Shireen #what’s not clicking? #asoiaf

[maid-with-sunset-in-her-hair]

Broke: The prophetic dream about a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag is about Stannis'shadow baby killing Renly

Woke: The prophetic dream about a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag is about Stannis murdering Shireen, a reference to how in some versions of the myth Artemis replaced Iphigenia by a deer before her father sacrificed her

#asoiaf #my meta #shireen baratheon #anti stannis baratheon

[lives4lovesworld]

How Dany's inability to recall Hazzea name and her reaction to Viserys’s death are shamelessly twisted for a narrative of her as a heartless monster, another "seed" to her descend into madness by others, and how it's incredibly hypocritical of them:

Firstly, it should be empathized that most characters/rulers do NOT even bother to care about any common born casualties in the first place, let alone learn their names and remember them over a large period of time as Daenerys (and Arya) do. So, even IF her name will one day truly fade from Daenerys's memory, i) it still makes her a morally better person and ruler than everbody else ii) it (/memory loss) will never be an indication of a descend into madness.

Such a " critique" is especially hypocritical coming from Sansa and Baratheon stans to do so, given that Sansa Stark herself couldn't even show remorse or sorrow for her sister's friend and innocent child, let alone learn his name. In fact she tried to spin a narrative where his brutal, unnecessary murder was justified and simultaneously gashlighted her devasted sister. Only one time, after her rose colored glasses were ripped off did she even mentioned Mycah's fate to the Tyrells, referring to him only as "butcher's boy" yet again. Otherwise he remains utterly absent in her head space. And given that both Stannis Baratheon and Robert Baratheon’s small council argue for killing innocent children if it’s profitable for them (x, x, x, x ,x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x, x). Common born casualties in wars are simply of no concern for most characters on a personal level.

While Daenerys is condemn for her lack of visible devastation at witnessing her abusive brother being killed after threatening her, Sansa's first action concerning Jory's murder, a leal man of her father, she had known her entire life, can be emphasizing Joffrey's lack of blame for this innocent man's brutal, unnecessary murder. With her second action being feeling proud that a more handsome man is filling out Jory's place, as well as witnessing Clegane killing a youth in tournament, and yet feel nothing nor cry and forget about his name as soon as she heard it without being used as "proof" for her mental decline.

A person not in need of twisting the narrative to unfairly condemn one to prop up another, would see that Daenerys and Sansa's respective reasoning behind their lack of tears in these two incidents are even similar: Both girls were emotionally utterly spent after their recent traumatic events (x, x). Yet, if extreme depravity, a miscarriage and the constant danger of hostile strangers and wild predators in the open, after the ordeal in the fighting pit are not sufficient as explanation for Daenerys's currently emotionally spent state and lack of tears for a girl Drogon killed than neither is Lady's death and Bran's fall for Sansa's utterly lack of reaction when witnessing a man dieing for the first time.

And, unlike Dany, Sansa was enjoying a tournament held in honor for her betrothed as a daughter of the King's Hand surrounded by her family's household in the pompous capital city. Unlike Sansa, Dany never actually witnessed with her own eyes the death.

It's maddening how there has been spun a narrative in which Daenerys is somehow responsible for Hazzea's death (some saying the same for Quentyn Martell's death) or doesn't care about her fate by sansa stans to villainize her. When that's just deliberately twisting the actual text and considering that their own fav is currently poisoning Robert Arryn, an innocent child and HER COUSIN (her last relative for what she knows) for her political ambitions. For which the most demeaning excuses are being conjuncted (such as Sansa simply being too stupid and "naive" to understand the danger of overdosing a child, despite Maester Colemon explain it), yet Daenerys gets vilified for lack of tears due to shock of seeing her abusive brother get murdered after he had threatened her unborn child.

sansa stans should truly be the last ones to prester anyone with their respective character's "lack of empathy" and bad memory nor proclaim a character is a "unreliable POV", especially when sansa has been be singled out BY THE AUTHOR to actually be one. (x, x) Same goes for Baratheon stans when it comes to other character's dismissal of innocent lifes and a mental decline linked to telling oneself everything is justified for the "Great Good".  

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #daenerys targaryen #stannis baratheon #sansa #arya stark mentioned #✨vent time✨ #anti sansa stans #anti stansas #anti stannis baratheon #anti stannis baratheon stans

[agentrouka-blog]

Look. I don't like or care for Hoster Tully. I 100% sympathise with Lysa's hatred of him and Edmure's feelings of being dismissed by him.

But Stannis isn't any less worse than Hoster because he didn't do any of the things that Hoster did to Lysa, when at the same time he would have done the exact same thing in Hoster's place! Let's say Shireen as a young unmarried woman fell in love with Devan Seaworth & they slept together. She falls pregnant. Meanwhile Stannis has bigger plans for his only child's marriage. Do we really think he would not have made Shireen abort the pregnancy against her will? I think the only thing that would make him better than Hoster is that he wouldn't trick her into it. He would be upfront about it. But he would still be doing the same thing fundamentally that Hoster did - violating her bodily autonomy. Even if it was too late for an abortion no way Shireen would have been allowed to keep her child. I say this sort of thing because that's how their society works.

Same thing for marriage alliances. He would 100% marry Shireen to Willas Tyrell for example (who is an adult, while she is still a child) if it suited him. Especially if the Tyrells allied with him from the beginning and had nothing to do with the Lannisters and/or Renly.

The horrid thing about Stannis is, he wouldn't even regret it later, like Hoster did, and he wouldn't be doing it believing it's the best for Lysa within the rigid framework of their society ("You'll have others . . . sweet babes, and trueborn.").

Stannis would do it because it's the "proper" course of action - that happens to benefit him. He could even talk himself into doing it secretly, if he found a justification (See also Renly, see also Edric.) and he would find a way to whine about it on his death bed to Davos, emphasizing how hard it was for him to have to live with the memory of Shireen making a big fuss.

#anti stannis baratheon

[astradrifting]

Hi! Were there any perspectives in the ASOIAF fandom that made your eyes roll? If there are, what made you say so? Thanks!

[mostly written in 2021, and posted very late. Sorry nonny!]

woof, this could open up a can of worms. I'm almost afraid this is a bait ask but I'm also very willing to run my mouth online about ASOIAF, and I love making fun of dumb theories, so let’s go!

Every time someone says that Jon and Dny are the song of ice and fire, my soul dies a little. Enough said.

I also hate the idea that parallels between ASOIAF history and the events of the books don’t matter. Not to state the obvious, but Westerosi history isn’t real. No part of it actually happened organically, GRRM has manufactured all of it, so everything must have been written with a purpose. I don’t buy that it’s just all world-building, because if parallels are obvious to us, they must be a thousand times more so for the man actually writing it all, and the army of editors who are probably helping him keep it straight.

There is absolutely no way that anything about Jonnel ‘One-Eye’ is a coincidence. Half-brother to Rickon Stark is obvious enough, but then we have his mother. Lynara sounds very similar to Lyanna (side note: a jonsa baby named Lynara would be adorable), but the real link is that she was born a Stark - all of the women on the family tree are listed under their maiden names. Her relation to her husband Cregan isn’t specified; it would have been so easy to have her be from another random house, or even a Karstark, yet what George wanted to convey is that Jonnel has a Stark mother, as well as a Stark father who happened to be heavily involved with the Targaryens.

Another fun thing linking Jonnel to Jon! Jon’s first relationship was with a red headed girl, who claimed that they were married because he’d stolen her. In the same conversation where she’s called half fish…

“You know nothing, Jon Snow. I’m half a fish, I’ll have you know.”

“Half fish, half goat, half horse…there’s too many halves to you, Ygritte.”

(ASOS, Jon V)

this conversation is already jonsa gospel as foreshadowing because of “half-fish”, but the horse part was always a little strange to me. As far as I remember, they didn’t have a prior conversation about her loving horses or riding particularly well, so that was seemingly out of left-field.

Well Jonnel’s second wife was a Ryswell - their sigil is a black horse’s head with a red mane.

pictured: the jonsa agenda winning again

The idea that Stannis will take Winterfell isn’t as personally annoying to me, all these dudebros have very detailed, tactics-based reasons to believe he’ll win I’m sure (something about a nightlamp?), but I just think it doesn’t do anything for the narrative, nor does it make sense with either his arc or Jon and Sansa’s.

Winning Winterfell will put Stannis in a position of strength, give him a base of operations in the North that’s not on loan from the Night’s Watch, and would probably lead to most of the Northern houses swearing allegiance to him, as Manderly has already promised to do. Why would a man in that position ever choose to burn his daughter, his only heir, alive? That is literally one of the few guaranteed book plots we have, so IMO speculation about Stannis all needs to work backwards from this end point; it’s ugly and horrible, and I don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach reading it, but it’s the only ending to his arc that makes sense.

Kinslaying reoccurs time and time again in Stannis’ arc. Kinslaying for his own personal benefit, no less. In his first appearance in ACOK, he listens to Selyse suggest that he kill Renly, then stands by whilst Melisandre kills Maester Cressen, his surrogate father. Cressen raised him and loved him like a son; yet if he had killed Melisandre instead, Stannis would have lost the power she wields for his benefit, the main reason he has a chance at the throne. Later in the book, he implicitly allows his brother to be murdered so that he could gain the Stormlords that had rallied to Renly instead of him (anyone trying to argue that the shadow wasn’t technically Stannis so technically it wasn’t kinslaying will be put in the naughty corner for excessive pedantry). In ASOS, he’s willing to sacrifice his nephew, an innocent 12 year old under his guardianship. He says it’s for the realm, for duty, but really it’s for his destiny. What is the life of a bastard boy against a kingdom so close to his grasp?

It’s escalation. Each time so far he’s had a layer of deniability, but he’s not going to have that in the end. Ordering Shireen’s death himself, murdering his daughter in some desperate bid to secure victory over the Boltons, will be the final step off the cliff. Maybe he’ll have some military victories before that, smarter people than me have no doubt discussed the parallels to the Greek myth of Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter Iphigenia, but I have no doubt Stannis’ story is headed only towards tragedy.

….Turns out that I do have a lot of feelings about Stannis. But to get back to my original point, Jon and Sansa taking Winterfell back together, travelling through the North doing the work and proving themselves as worthy rulers, makes a lot more sense for their future roles in the story than Stannis winning it all for them. It’s also much more affecting and thematically resonant, so I refuse to believe D&D entirely made up that storyline.

I also inevitably end up rolling my eyes whenever I'm bored enough to go onto r/asoiaf, there's always a bad take right on the front page. One that annoyed me enough to go into @istumpysk’s inbox and kickstart my jonsa blogging was one asking what the point of R+L=J even is, because it never amounted to anything and just muddled up J/D being “the song of ice and fire”.

While it gets so close to the point that it’s funny, there’s no way the “song” is going to boil down to a relationship, let alone JD. I would almost buy Jon and Dænerys being the song of ice and fire if Jon actually were just Ned’s bastard, all ‘ice’. Hell, if he really wanted to make a relationship the song of ice and fire, he could have cut out the middleman and made Jon a trueborn Stark from the start - make them starcrossed lovers from warring families, truly ice and truly fire. Utterly boring, but thematically coherent at least. A major point of Jon’s character is that he is both - and something a lot messier than that besides, as a bastard.

It's not all bad on r/asoiaf though, when I went back to look for that post I saw another about how the Titan of Braavos is a Pacific Rim-style mech that will come to life to fight any dragons coming to the city, a theory that I will be championing from this moment henceforth.

Wait, nevermind, in that same thread someone said that Jaehaerys is the sexiest Targ name, so r/asoiaf is immediately cancelled again. That's another fandom perspective that makes me roll my eyes, the idea that Jaehaerys is in any way an acceptable name, especially as Jon's ‘secret’ name.

This 👏 is 👏 Targaryen 👏 propaganda 👏

Just look at it!! How do you even pronounce that? The hill I will most definitely die on is that this name is ugly.

#astra rambles #me throughout this ask: AND ANOTHER THING #my own stannis take does hurt me somewhat because for a while fanon stannis was /my/ boring little man #however then I read the books and didn’t actually like him much lmao #jonsa #anti stannis baratheon #anti house targaryen #anti daenerys targaryen #anti targaryen stans #just covering my bases #meta #within all the rambling at least #jesus this is long #I cut out another terrible r/asoiaf post I was ranting about because it’s seriously been a year since I started this

[allovesthings]

My journey with Stannis as a character is kinda a bit wild.

I started, when I was just watching the show, completely indifferent to him, he was a character that I didn't like or dislike, he was just there. I liked Davos though.

I started to see comments from book readers about Stannis the Mannis, the one true king, who would never burn his daughter to get Winterfell and I thought, woah another character the show fucked over, I can't wait to read about Stannis in the books.

And then I actually read the books and I just still don't get where all of this comes from ?

The first thing we see him do in the books is humiliate an old man who was a father figure to him all his life ? How is that Stannis the Mannis ?

And then we realize that he sucks at everything diplomatic and his own vassals would rather go with his brother then him and he is aligned with someone who wants to convert the entirety of westeros to her own religion by force (when the freedom of religion is really the only thing Westeros got going for them) and how is that person the one true king of Westeros ?

And you also read about him being responsible for his brother's death and attempting to kill his nephew and how is that person not someone who is going to burn his daughter if pushed hard enough ?

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #anti stannis baratheon #stannis baratheon

[d4nte393]

stannis is NOT the mannis. he is a closeted bitch AND homophobic (killed his gay brother)

fr tho i can’t read the “when the sun has set no candle can replace it” line without crying. or the line about loras burying renly. cmon stannis you gay basher what were you thinking

rip renly you would have loved oscar wilde 💔💔💔

#a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #stannis baratheon #anti stannis baratheon #renly baratheon #loras tyrell #stannis is NOT rolling with the lgbt

[knightsickness]

stannis victim of misogyny untenably real

#being anti roberts claim pro stannis claim also really funny #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #hotd #house of the dragon #stannis baratheon

[lemonhemlock]

Rhaenyra v Cersei: Battle of the Bastards

Lo' and behold, looks like I'm not done with bastardposting after all. For this piece, I would like to compare and contrast the two main situations that the general public has been exposed as far as the issue of illegitimate children is concerned within the ASOIAF-verse: Rhaenyra v Cersei.

The parallels are obvious. Rhaenyra has three bastard children, Cersei has three bastard children. Let's see how they handle it.

Rules

According to Westerosi law, bastards can't inherit. It doesn't matter if they're the husband's or the wife's, the King's or the Queen's. Children born out of wedlock to any spouse are explicitly excluded from the line of succession.

Only the King can legitimise bastards via a royal decree. Enough of these "Roose legitimized Ramsay" lies. It's patently untrue. Tommen legitimized Ramsay.

In order to be legitimised, the children in question first have to be declared bastards. You cannot legitimize trueborn children. You cannot secretly legitimise bastards. "Viserys claimed Rhaenyra's children were trueborn, ergo he implicitly legitimised them." No, he didn't. He never admitted they were bastards.

Why does this matter? Because it is unclear where legitimised bastards fall in the line of succession. If they maintain their place by birth order or if they are relegated to the back of the line, behind any and all other trueborn claimants.

There are no genetic tests available in Westeros. People have to prove adultery or rely on common sense.

1. Cersei has a distinct advantage over Rhaenyra, since her children look like her. She can very easily argue that they favour her, as their mother, and this is exactly what everyone believes for years, including Robert. Since Jaime is the male version of Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella can look like no else. Catelyn's kids look like Catelyn and no one bats an eye. Only Arya and (to Catelyn's irritation) Jon look like Ned. However, Ned doesn't ever doubt his children are not his.

Rhaenyra's kids look nothing like Rhaenyra and nothing like Laenor. They, instead, share distinct physical traits with her sworn shield, a man seen very often in her presence. People are not idiots. There is no plausible deniability here. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Cersei's kids were, say, Dornish-looking, people would be calling her out for her bullshit.

There is a way you can reasonably get away with passing over your bastards as someone else's, but that is 100% not Rhaenyra's way. This is why Cersei is chilling in the Red Keep, living her best bad bitch life, while Rhaenyra is running away to Dragonstone when the rumours are nipping at her heels. They are not the same. There are no paternity rumours to quell Cersei's girlboss vibes. She is sly enough that even Robert is convinced he inseminated her (gross).

2. I'm not going to get into the intricacies of Ned Stark's Scooby-Doo, Hercule Poirot mystery plot of unraveling Cersei's misdeeds. Ned has his own beef with the Lannisters and is convinced they are up to no good. He investigates them like the meddling kid he is and comes away with a suspicion. He knows nothing (heh) for certain until Cersei verbally confirms it for him. yOuR bRoThEr Or YoUr lOvEr. boo!

Had Ned not been on the Lannister trail from the very beginning, a fair assumption can be made that he never even would have suspected anything untoward. He never questions the children's paternity when they visit in Winterfell.

Again, this is distinctly different from Rhaenyra's situation. No one believes Cersei's children are bastards,* whereas no one believes Rhaenyra's children are trueborn. Pretending otherwise is very, very strange.

*at the beginning of AGOT, at least

3. Robert claimed Joffrey all his life and specifically named him his son and heir in his will, under dictation, to Ned. In turn, Ned deliberately changed Robert's words and wrote them down as "my rightful heir".

This is a parallel to show!Alicent, who misunderstands Viserys' dying words and him naming his son Aegon as heir. If Alicent didn't have the right to muddle the King's meaning, then neither did Ned. However, no one in their right minds is arguing that Ned is a traitor to the Crown. I wonder why is that?

I have already pointed out the circular logic in arguing that Robert only said that because he didn't know the children weren't his.

4. So what does this mean? Can anyone just accuse anyone they don't like of being a bastard and, thus, endanger that person's entire social status?

No, of course not. But, unfortunately for Cersei, Ned and Stannis aren't just some randos in a tavern. Ned is the Hand of the King. Stannis is Lord of Dragonstone and on the Small Council. These two men have a stalwart reputation and are renowned for their obsession with justice, duty and, in Ned's case, honour.

If Ned Stark stands in front of the Iron Throne and proclaims Joffrey a bastard, risks his daughters' lives and literally ends up losing his head as a result of this,

if Stannis Baratheon sends letters throughout the realm claiming Cersei's children are illegitimate,

the people of Westeros are going to pay attention.

These two very important men using their public platform to denounce Joffrey and starting wars over this? Say what you will about them, but they are not oathbreakers and they are not liars. No, they don't come with DNA tests, but for a lot of Westerosi, this is enough. They believe it.

Is this foolproof? No, of course not! But it convinces enough people that they are willing to band together to support rival claimants to the throne, thus igniting the War of the Five Kings. Speaking of political headaches, this is a huge one!

That being said, while Cersei is playing in the Champions League, Rhaenyra is fighting for her life in the relegation zone. She doesn't even need a Ned or a Stannis to cast doubt on her because no one believes her kids are not bastards.

Moreover, Vaemond obviously parallels Ned in this story. He tells the truth in open court and loses his head for it. In the show, Daemon and Viserys play the same role as Joffrey. In the texts, Rhaenyra and Daemon are stand-ins for Joffrey. This is not meant to be a triumphant moment of girlbossery. This is an abuse of power and an act of terror.

All in all, I'm sorry to say, but Cersei wins this hands down. She is savvy enough in her choice of sperm donor and can maintain plausible deniability without looking like a goddamn clown and the entire circus to boot. She holds the capital and has access to all the emblems of state after Robert dies. In contrast, Rhaenyra is floundering across the Blackwater Bay, yelling at the dragon gargoyles that her children are trueborn.

Why is this issue important in the story?

a). No one has a problem with Jace being King.

If people had a problem with Joffrey being King, enough to go to war over it, it would be narratively inconsistent for them to just accept an obvious bastard as King. It would contradict the internal logic of the fictional world we're talking about. That's quite some level of suspension of disbelief just because some fans like Jace. This isn't about him being amiable or a good kid.

b). They're still Rhaenyra's sons / it's a Targaryen internal matter and concerns no one else / the concept of Jace being King doesn't personally affect anyone else, so why does anyone care?

Because it's the freaking law! The name of the crime Rhaenyra commits is high treason! Punishable by exile or death!

No, the crime is not adultery, it's not having bastard children, it's specifically putting said bastard children in line to the throne. In that, Rhaenyra is as guilty as Cersei is.

It absolutely does affect others, since Rhaenyra actively steals the inheritance of House Velaryon for Luke. How is that not a crime? I would even go so far as to say that Laenor and Corlys are complicit in it and should be punished as well.

Contrary to bafflingly-popular erroneous beliefs, the monarch can't just do whatever they want. Even in absolutist monarchies, the sovereign serves the vital social role of upholding the law and the rights of their subjects. Rhaenyra breaks said law by committing theft, murder, high treason and destabilizing the entire system of inheritance.

c) Rhaenyra breaks the social contract

Jock Locke argues for the "right of revolution" in the Second Treatise of Government. He writes that when the government acts against the interests of its citizens, then said citizens gain the right to overthrow it and replace it with an authority that will protect their interests.

I am not trying to impose 'progressive' understandings of the political process anachronistically, in a medieval fantasy; my thesis-statement is that we have already seen this concept at play within the world of ASOIAF: the Faith Militant uprising against Aenys I and Maegor due to their practices of incest and polygamy and Robert's Rebellion, caused by Rhaegar kidnapping a noble lady and Aerys II carrying out executions without due process. The people of Westeros are not unfamiliar with opposing monarchs who don't abide by the law.

The question of Rhaenyra having bastards is framed in a lot of commentary through the lens of her right as a woman to have extra-marital sex and not be demonised for it and to find fulfilling love within the constraints imposed on her by her station. While debating the personal individual freedom of women in a patriarchal feudal society is not to be side-lined, her fundamental fault is that she is demanding rights and exemptions for herself, while the rest of the country have to abide by an entirely different set of rules.

The laws of inheritance, as unjust as they may appear to our modern eyes, are in place to prevent crises of succession, violent conflicts or even large-scale wars from starting every time someone's estates are passed on. Illegitimate children suddenly gaining access to inheritances threatens the political and economical calculations that predicate many Westerosi marriages.

Imagine paying a handsome dowry for your daughter, just so her husband's bastard birthed by some high-born mistress to make use of his maternal family's resources and cheat your legitimate grandchildren out of theirs.

Imagine being married to some lord and now his random bastards threaten the inheritance of your lawful children. Because, hey, the Queen acts like this is fine! This is Catelyn Stark's worst nightmare.

You think you can just sue your husband? What a silly notion. You think you can sue the bastard claimants after your husband is dead? Tough luck, your liege lord may rule in their favour by taking a leaf out of Queen Rhaenyra's book. You think you can appeal to Queen Rhaenyra? How are you going to travel all the way to King's Landing? Good luck with that, maybe you're built different and don't die during this dangerous and expensive journey.

Is this fair for the illegitimate children? Hell no, but Rhaenyra and Viserys are not planning on reforming family law in any meaningful way, because they know what a hassle it would be and how much opposition it would meet!

It reeks of rights for me, but not for thee and I, for the life of me, don't understand the stronghold she has on the liberated feminist brigade.

and finally

d). The Green Coup is not dependent on the legitimacy of Rhaenyra's children.

No. But her committing high treason earns her an automatic disqualification from her right to rule, rendering her claim null and void.

#anti rhaenyra targaryen #cersei lannister #house of the dragon #asoiaf #anti team black #team green #stannis baratheon #hotd meta #bastardposting #ned stark #cersei is the one true queen of westeros don't let anybody tell u different #forgive me queen for dragging u thru the streets like this #u remain the no1 messiest baddest bitch in my heart

[duchess-of-oldtown]

The thing about Stannis that people often forget that he was only 17 when Robert's Rebellion started. His parents are dead, his older brother who was meant to be in charge and head of the family has practically abandoned him with all the responsibilities of being Lord of Storm's End, being head of the family and raising Renly who was 3 or 4 at this time. He's seventeen and all of a sudden he has to make a choice between what he knows is the "right" thing to do which is staying loyal to the Crown or standing with his brother, who he no doubt loves despite his later declaration in ACOK. He's seventeen and there's an army outside the walls, everybody inside those walls has to rely on him when he knows that they really want Robert, he is in charge when doubtless he wants Robert back. He's the one who is meant to be in charge after all, the one with the experience, he's only 17. He has to watch Renly grow thinner and thinner, likely going without food himself just to give Renly an extra mouthful here and there. He has to see people turn on House Baratheon from inside the castle, probably knowing them all his life. He has to punish them or end up looking weak, he can't afford weakness. Not when there are hundreds depending on him. And Robert. He's depending on him too, afterall. Then comes the news that Rhaegar is dead, King's Landing is Robert's and he's King now. Weeks later, Stannis gets news that the Siege is about to be lifted. Doubtless he looks out over the walls and sees who has come to save him. It's not Robert. It's Ned Stark, who Robert went to war with, who Robert sees as a brother, far more than he's ever treated Stannis. And even then Stark has to run off for another duty, leaving Stannis to deal with Storm's Ends recovery. Then when things are settled, the Baratheons unite. Robert has a task for Stannis rather than a thank you or an apology. Stannis grits his teeth and gets on with it. He fails to capture the last Targaryens. He returns only to hear Robert's grumbles. And when comes time for dealing with succession, Renly- who is only a child - gets Storm's End. Stannis gets Dragonstone, the reminder of his failure not his achievements. It breaks Stannis's trust in Robert. In the following years, Robert becomes more and more of a disappointment. He beds Delena Florent at Stannis's wedding ruining the nuptials which are nothing more to Stannis than a political move no doubt recommended by Jon Arryn. He becomes more lazy, more distant, less and less of somebody to look up. To make matters worse, Renly who Stannis protected, starved for and practically raised, still looks up to Robert, pushing Stannis away. By AGOT, Stannis is isolated by his own House, trapped in a loveless marriage, weighed down by duties he never asked for, responsibilities that he has to shoulder because Robert won't, crushed under the knowledge of the Lannister Twincest and its repercussions and he's just been pushed aside again by Ned Stark, this stranger who Robert idolises so much. Its the last straw so he leaves. Months later, Robert is dead, Renly is at the heart of trouble and the Realm is bleeding again. Stannis declares himself King, not only because Melisandre wraps the shroud of messiah around him or he really feels any sort of higher calling or ambition. He does it because that's what he does, he cleaned up Robert's messes, he steps into Robert's shoes and does his duty. Just has he's been doing since he was just a child.

#Stannis Baratheon #Stannis has dealt with more shit than we will probably ever hear about #No wonder he's the way that he is #give him therapy #Maybe a hug #anti robert baratheon #asoiaf #pre asoiaf #Storm's End #Renly Baratheon #House Baratheon #robert baratheon #Grrm #Ned Stark #House Stark #The stormlands #Dragonstone #house baratheon of dragonstone #House Baratheon of storm's end #King Stannis #stannis the mannis #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta #Got meta

[catofoldstones]

My point is that the ice and fire in a song of ice and fire are literally the ice and fire powerhouses re the white walkers and the Targaryens (and stannis & the fire lord etc), and they’re both the villains. Goodbye.

#since they’re both extremely destructive forces #it’s not about who can destroy who #eg fire destroys ice #it’s about what happens to the world while they destroy each other #and honestly germ’s quote about fire being restorative etc only reminds me of beric dondarrion & his red priest #in a story about why the collateral damage? #what happens to the collateral damage? #two violent forces are equally bad #long summer is just as bad as the long winter #see the Rhoynar & the freehold etc etc #and we all know why the long winter is bad #asoiaf #anti house targaryen #for good measure #and #anti stannis baratheon #because he’s about to burn Shireen & you can argue with the wall about that

[maid-with-sunset-in-her-hair]

Stannis Baratheon’s coat of arms, a crowned black stag within a flaming heart on a yellow field, is very similar to the Sacred Heart, a Catholic symbol of God’s boundless love for humanity, which is often depicted as a flaming bleeding heart with a cross on top, encircled by a crown of thorns and shining with divine golden light. The reason why the Heart is aflame is because it symbolizes how Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross superseded all the sacrifices of the Old Testament. These sacrifices, often lambs, were burned as offerings to God, as we see during the testing of Abraham:

After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here am I.” He said, “Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Mori′ah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you.” (RSVCE Genesis 22)

In the Bible, Abraham failed his test when he tried to kill his son, that’s why God stopped directly communicating with him and sent a messenger to stop him. But because Abraham ultimately obeyed, God indirectly blessed him through Isaac:

And the angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time from heaven,and said, “By myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will indeed bless you, and I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore. And your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies, and by your descendants shall all the nations of the earth bless themselves, because you have obeyed my voice.” (RSVCE Genesis 22)

Shireen won’t be as lucky. Nobody will stop her father from sacrificing her, she won’t have any descendants that will rule over the Lannisters and Tyrells and bless the nations of the Seven Kingdoms.

#asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #my meta #shireen baratheon #anti stannis baratheon

[lives4lovesworld]

It's enough for people to obsessively hate Rhaegar Targaryen for being one of many to speculated about the prophecy of Azor Ahai Reborn and wholeheartedly proclaim that Rhaegar was mad (as bad as Aerys) and has abducted and used Lyanna as incubator because of his "obsession" with said prophecy.

Despite both ideas not being backed up by the source material; i) Rhaegar is remembered fondly, capable and worthy (x, x, x, x, x, x, x) and "would have been a fine[r] king". ii) Rhaegar's "abduction" of Lyanna was even in-verse known to be motivated by (romantic) love, not because he believed her to be a part of the prophecy. (x, x, x, x) iii) Rhaegar believed the prophecy has already been fulfilled in his son with Elia Martell (x, x,)

Besides this, Rhaegar even had valid reasons (at least more than Stannis Baratheon ever had) to believe he could indeed be Azor Ahai; he was born amidst salt and smoke, it was prophesied that Azor Ahai Reborn will come forth from Aerys II and Rhaella's line (and for the longest time he seemed to be their only child to reach adulthood) he was the trueborn, rightful Lord of Dragonstone, "the place of salt and smoke" and dragons.

What takes the cake however, is their unironically projection of a character's flaw onto another, one that is designed to serve as a foil* and their refusal to apply the same moral belief system to all characters; they do not condemn Stannis Baratheon for his obsession with him as Azor Ahai Reborn and will use Jon Snow's parentage as proof that he is indeed Azor Ahai, using and validating the very same thought process they accuse Rhaegar of and condemn him for.

(*Stannis is a foil to Daenerys, and thus indirectly to Rhaegar, since Dany is constantly compared to him)

So while Stannis Baratheon can want to burn his child nephew, actually burn his uncle-in-law, consider burning newborn babes (x, x, x), loyal men (x, x, x) and will apparently burn his own daughter all for the sake of 'his duty' (x, x, x, x,) they will still proclaimed him as TKwC, The Best Man to Rule, while condemn Rhaegar and Daenerys Targaryen, mostly for sins they did not commit, but Stannis did; burning people and commit(/consider) atrocities with the excuse of being "The Chosen One" and it all being for "The Greater Good".

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #✨fandom wank✨ #top clown behavior #rhaegar targaryen #stannis baratheon #lyanna stark #anti rhaegar hate #anti rxl haters #anti stannis baratheon #antis stannis stans #daenerys targaryen mentioned

[agentrouka-blog]

Do you think Stannis burning alive his daughter is going to be a dark mirror to Ned killing Lady? Ned killed Lady because Robert Baratheon had ordered it and Cersei pushed it as price to pay for her son. Ned chooses to kill Lady and let her buried in North. He knew that he committed some folly. Stannis will be in place of both Robert and Ned and Mel will the one who convinced him like Cersei. Ned is also foil to Stannis as he lie to save his daughter.

I think both are a play on the story of Agamemnon and Iphigenia.

(And on Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa.)

Agamemnon incurs the wrath of the goddess Artemis, in some variants by murdering an animal sacred to her. This wrath causes calamities that prevent him from sailing off to war against Troy, and it is only appeased by the sacrifice of his daughter Iphigenia - or in variants the sacrifice of a deer in her place while she is whisked away to distant lands. It is one of the reasons his wife has him killed when he returns home.

Ned sacrifices Lady at the command of Robert and Cersei - the replacement animal and the sacred animal in one - with his sword Ice. (A play on how he sacrificed Sansa's future happiness by agreeing to this betrothal in the first place.) This act doesn't appease the gods, rather narratively it seals his doom, and he is shown to question this decision later. He later receives the chance to save his human daughter through sacrificing his public honor, before being executed with the same sword as Lady. Arya recognizes that same bloody sword in the red comet, called "The Red Sword" by her travel companions, the same way that Lightbringer is referred to as the "Red Sword of Heroes". Which act made Ned a hero? Sacrificing his daughter's wolf, or sacrificing himself for his daughter?

Stannis, with his building momentum in blood magic and human sacrifice, with his fake Lightbringer and history of kinslaying, is likely going to sacrifice his actual daughter (a little deer) in order to sway the favor of the red god. There's a whole prophecy encouraging him to do it, built all around that fake sword he wields. But it will not earn him anything good, no more than it did Ned.

It's the destruction of the myth of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa. GRRM tells us to question it as soon as he introduces it, by making Saladhor Saan derride the heroic nature of a man who would kill his own wife.

It's how GRRM condemns the absurd idea that you get to be a hero based on sacrificing other people for "the greater good" or a magic sword.

Which should really make the reader question other "heroes" who sacrifice human beings for magical weapons.

#eddard stark critical #anti stannis baratheon #human sacrifice #greek mythology #agamemnon #azor ahai #father and daughter

[asharaxofstarfall]

One thing that I hate that the show runners did was take away Renly's complexities and make him a straight up good guy that just wants what's best for the people. In the books, hes crazy, but it makes sense!! His family left him!!! And now he's like kind of terrible and no one understands why. From the ages of three to five he's starved and watches other people starve too. His parents are killed in front of him as a baby!! I mean, he obviously doesn't remember their deaths, but it's not really a comforting thought none the less. But throughout all this extreme trauma, he has Stannis. He has his big brother who loves him and takes care of him and is like a father to him. They go through all of this together. Even when it seems hopeless, like they're going to have to resort to cannibalism (presumably Renly, being a little kid, doesn't know this) they still have each other. Then, things start to look up when Davos brings them onions or whatever. They're not going to die, their men aren't going to continue dying. Robert wins the throne. But then he decides that Stannis needs to come to King's landing with him. They just. Leave their little brother alone in Storms End with the maesters. After everything he's been through (and they've been through together) he is abandoned. Then he has to watch Robert start a family of his own, listen to all the praise for Joffrey, the Prince, and none for him. What's worse is Shireens birth. Stannis was his main father figure!! And he abandoned him and now has a kid of his own. Then Stannis wonders why Renly hates him and Robert hates Renly for wanting his approval so badly. I wonder why, Robert!!! He does everything for the attention he never got when he was little and always wanted. He can't even properly see the love that Maester Cressen has for him because he's disillusioned. The show just takes all of that away, and it could've been soooo good and so complex, but it just falls flat

#does this make sense #i feel like it doesn't and i'm just rambling #anyways that would've been so iconic #let him be a sort of villian!! #the twisted sibling relationship wasn't there in the show i'm afraid #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #anti got #don't usually use anti tags but d and d make me sooo angry #a game of thrones #a clash of kings #renly baratheon #stannis baratheon #house baratheon