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nightwings-bussy · 3 years

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guess who's still on their bullshit? it's me. it's always me. i'm going to talk about why dickkorybabs is a fantastic ship and you should ship it, let's just go character by character

dick. dickie boy. sweet richard john grayson. you're so queer and they just don't know what to do with you, do they. you're so queer that your serial monogamy in every comic since the 90's literally comes off not as "playboy" behavior but as honest to god suspicious, like the writers understand that if they leave you single for so much as a panel or two, it'll become way too obvious how gay you are. but no matter who they shack you up with, who your gf of the week is (and im sure they're lovely but let's be real... they're a placeholder) none of them compare to your Two Great Character Defining Loves. but also no one can fuckin agree on which of those Loves is supposed to be your one and only and as such neither can you - not because you don't love them both profoundly, but because you DO, often at the same time. that's poly as fuck baby. that's just fine.

because barbara and kori are both spectacular, but they each speak to something very different in dick: babs speaks to dick's foundation, to long held, precious bonds, to his loyalty to the family, to his place as the Prodigal Son, detective, prom king, goofball. babs is designed as dick's perfect counterbalance, the first girl he ever crushed on, the one who's known him almost a little too well for a little too long.

kory, on the other hand, speaks to dick's growth, his ascension as a leader, his independence, the formation of a new, strong identity that's all his own. kory has been a part of so many conversations for dick about who he's trying to become. babs and dick carry a lot of the same baggage - they've endured many of the same unkindnesses, survived under the same man's immense expectations and pressure, and that gives them a lot of common ground. in contrast, kory's never lived under batman's thumb, and dick has to fight off a lot of his more bruce-like impulses around her; kory helps dick embrace the emotional core of himself that bruce never could. she celebrates his openness, his softness, his emotional and physical neediness in a way he always thought he had to keep hidden. kory and babs have different access points to dick's heart, his vulnerability. and at his best, dick is an amazing partner to them both: dedicated and charming, deeply affectionate, funny and excited about them, trusting, respectful, in awe of them, confident in them, protective but not overbearing, a strong advocate and partner who's deeply and tirelessly interested in them.

but dick has a dark side that all his friends and lovers eventually see, and it manifests strongly with both of them. with babs, dick's biggest struggle seems to be his ability to trust her with his whole self, to be kind and fair to her in his darker moments, and (debatably) to be loyal when the chips are down. with kory, it's a constant struggle with his baggage; his difficulty expressing himself or be emotionally vulnerable after a childhood spent with a guy who rarely does either, his difficulty trusting anyone as much as he trusts his family, his conflicting cultural values around relationships and violence. without growth on his part, all of these issues represent a big hurdle to any real attempt at long-term relationships with either of them.

but triangles are the most stable shape for a reason.

let's cover this quickly, because i truly feel this is the easiest part to wrap your head around: there is absolutely no way, in the hands of a writer who knows anything, that kory and babs are not attracted to each other. it's simply impossible. babs is 100% kory's type (proud, stubborn, brilliant, competent, red head, warrior), and meanwhile babs is a lesbian with a singular exception. name me one lesbian who wouldn't be all over starfire given the opportunity. you can't. we don't exist.

also, on a personality level, kory and babs are just SO complimentary - kory's smart and strong and resourceful, and so is babs. babs is snarky and brave and domineering, and so is kory. babs has known the bitter pain of loneliness and isolation from ones family by a situation largely beyond your control. so has kory. kory has known the struggle of creating a new family and trying over and over to explain yourself to people who may not understand or accept you. so has babs. you could circle again and again why they're so good for each other, but you could also sum it up with the fact that they both deeply love the same man, and they could easily love one another just as deeply.

and then you start to realize how many problems it solves. queer dick? he's here baby. kory opens him right up - issues with being vulnerable? dealt with. issues trusting babs with his true self? kory says honesty only in this household. issues with loyalty? welcome to normalized polyamory, says our tamaranean princess. is he being a cunt to babs when he gets grumpy? now she has an advocate, bc kory never lets dick get away with that shit.

and with kory it's the exact same. dick struggles to be emotionally available bc of his weirdo dad? yeah, that's okay - babs speaks dick-ese. dick can't trust anyone the way he trusts family? babs is here to back kory up and make sure dick understands she IS family. dick has issues working through his conflicting cultural values with kory? well babs is a damn professional at overseeing Dialogues(TM), let her at him.

and on top of all that it's FUCKING CUTE. lose the jealousy subplots and the cheating subplots and just let kory and babs fall in love already - give dick the femdom supremacy lifestyle he so desperately craves. like it's just amazing how rarely i see this pairing when it's this gd good like WHERE are my dickkorybabs fic recs. where are they

#dickkory #dickbabs #dickkorybabs #meta

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mego42 · 4 years

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I 100% agree about wanting more fanfic lists! I honestly think it's the best way to get a variety. Everybody has personal preferences, if someone, who mostly reads long, fluffy au Brio fic, is making recs, they're not likely to mention short, angsty, canon Brio (which is understandable and fair!) so ideally someone else, who does like those, would also do recs. I'm pretty sure I've read or at least tried the vast majority of Brio fics, but the recs often make me re-read the fic and author.

YAAASSSS!!! I mean like, okay, I v much get why people have issues with rec lists, and I def do not by any stretch endorse the idea that recs/rec lists should be considered anything other than one person sharing a think they liked, but to me a lot of the issues (the same fics/authors getting recced, feeling like awesome fics/authors are going unrecognized) can be solved by more reccing, not less. everyone’s got different taste and different stuff they look/read for and I am extremely pro sharing that.

Idk, I think about it like this: in a previous internet life I was a YA book blogger and I lived and died by recs from other bloggers whose taste and preferences I knew. I mean, you know, I’d check out a book bc the premise sounded interesting but literally the first thing I would do was go to Goodreads and look for a handful of people who tended to like the same books I did and see what they were saying about it bc that was the best way to get a good idea of if I wanted to give it a shot. Or, on the flip side, there were some people whose reviews I followed bc I knew we v much did not read for the same things so if they hated a book for X, Y and Z reasons, I was probs going to like it (one thing about book blogging is if you want to keep current, you do not have a lot of time to mess around, snap judgements are key but that’s a whole other thing and idk if it’s even relevant anymore bc that landscape has changed so much).

ANYWAY, the point is, I got in the habit and now I do the same thing with fic bc, tbh, I don’t have a ton of time to read, esp not when I’m actively writing which, with the exception of the last week or two, I’ve been doing p non-stop since I got here. All of which to say is, I am desperately in favor of fic recs for purely selfish reasons, I need them! Give them to me!!! Please!!!!!

That said, I uh, am v bad at returning the favor and I recognize that (I think I’ve made what? two rec lists for this fandom?) so I will try to do better to live by my own, idek what this is, moving on and here are 10 recs not really thematically linked by anything other than I’ve read them and loved them and don’t think I’ve put any of them on one of my rec lists yet (and if I have, my blog is a trainwreck I cannot be expected to remember what’s on it LET ME LIVE):

The Goodest Boy by EnsignDisaster

There’s a key turning in the lock and Buddy rushes over to greet his Master excited for her to meet his new friends. The door opens and he dances around Master’s feet rejoicing on the fact that she’s made it home. It's been literally forever.

“Hey Buddy what’s wrong? Need to go potty? Need to pee-pee?”

“Nah he’s good we took him out.”

Master does something very unMasterlike, she drops all the food she’d brought in on the ground and screams. It’s a non traditional avant garde type of hello…Buddy loves it. Mostly because while Master taps furiously on her small light box and sits tense in the corner opposite his new friend Buddy can lick up the egg smashed on the hardwood floor.

Buddy! The! Dog! POV! no further explanation necessary. Technically WIP, but it covers the whole pilot in a way that could be read as standalone (THOUGH THAT WOULD V MUCH GIVE ME A SAD though, when did the show forget the Bolands had a dog? so maybe that’s a tragic casualty of canon, idk)

May The Moon’s Silvery Beams by @pynkhues

Emma hums in agreement, and Rio turns her around to sit her on the counter, grabbing one of the older looking boxes of muesli while she kicks her legs out, heels bumping back against the counter, watching him. He gropes around the inside of the box, finally just opting to pull the plastic cereal bag out and peering inside. He can’t quite keep the grin off his face when he sees the wad of cash lining the bottom. This woman kills him, she really does.

Then there’s a little face peering up beside him, trying to peek into the box.

“What is it?” she asks, and he tilts the box sideways so she can see inside.

The upside to not getting here until s3 is that old fic is new to me! Huzzah!! Idk how many of y’all have already read this on but if you haven’t I highkey recommend. Extremely cute take on what if Emma woke up when Rio and came by to collect his/Beth’s/whoever's money during the shutdown. Cannot believe I’m reccing kidfic. Witchcraft!!!!!!

Maybe You’re My Fantasy by ohmisterjapan

He fucking loves the involuntary. It speaks to how he likes to unlock chaos and walk away. He's been called a control freak before and it felt like such a misunderstanding of him - he's all about self control but he doesn't want to control others. It's more that he enjoys revealing to them how little they can control themselves. It's more that he likes to stand still in the eye of someone else's storm and pick coldly through the wreckage.

Another oldie but a goodie. This fic is more like an extended character study (first chapter Rio POV, second chapter Beth) and I LIVE FOR THIS KIND OF SHIT. I really really really love the take on both characters, it really digs in and pulls out some nuances that made me sit and think about my own read of them and I love it.

A Shock Of Blue by mintletters16

“You don’t look very well. Would you… like me to get you a glass of water or something?”

Her voice is low but smooth, laced with a softness that cuts straight though to his core. Strawberry blonde locks fall gently just above the pair of magnets freezing him in place.

He can still feel the chaos tearing through his veins - emanating from the gold plated gun stuffed in his waistband - and suddenly he can’t be here anymore. Can’t meet this wide-eyed gaze that’s been locked on his for the past God-knows-how-long anymore.

Can’t see blue alive and concerned when he just left it cold and void somewhere in oblivion.

She’s looking at him like he’s on the brink of madness. He thinks maybe he is.

Apparently, it’s backlist rec day over here and I’m not sorry. This one is another technical WIP but the chapter works as a standalone (BUT if the author decided to return to it I WOULD NOT BE MAD). It’s a what if Beth and Rio met pre-canon and it works so!!! well!!!! The tension and fascination and build are all *chef’s kiss* plus the writing is gorgeous and lyrical and ugh, I love it.

for a moment we were strangers by openhearts

“We got stuff,” Rio motions with a nod to the backpack Beth hadn’t noticed when they arrived hanging on the back of one of the chairs at the island.

She swallows and turns back to the dishes, realizing Rio apparently means to sleep there , assuming the place isn’t bugged. Or for some kind of cover story if it is. She turns and fixes Rio with a narrow-eyed stare, studying his face, the corner of his jaw especially prominent from the angle she’s looking up at him. He’s methodical about drying each dish and setting it back on the rack, maddeningly ignoring her hard stare, so when he goes to take the next plate from her hands she grips it tightly and gets his attention.

“Hey.”

“What you on about now?” he asks, irritated.

It gets her gut uneasy, how he’s just . . . there, settling in, in ways he never had before, no matter how nonchalantly he would let himself in through her locked doors.

“This is,” Beth tries, failing, to find words for it, “. . . it’s weird .”

This one takes place post 204 and Rio and Marcus end up spending a long weekend staying with Beth and Emma for reasons (that work, for the record, I’m just not trying to summarize rn) and it’s domestic and cute but honestly my fav part of it is how weirded out Beth is by how easily they slip into sync. The story does an excellent job balancing where they are in canon (uneasy post-sex truce) with a snapshot of what they could be if they got over themselves (HA! as if) and Beth is DEEPLY FREAKED which makes her slow slide into realizing she could maybe sort of kind of oh shit like it/him??? that much more satisfying.

Not So Careful by @bensonstablers

When he doesn’t answer, her eyes go to his but he’s too busy watching the letter opener which is still pressed against the back of his hand. Curiously, Beth runs it up his arm, careful not to press too hard, and smiles a little as he shivers. Pulling her leg up onto the bed, she shuffles closer to him before pressing the tip of the sword to his chest and slowly circling his left nipple with it, being sure not to get too close.

“You ain’t gotta be that careful.”

And when she lifts her eyes to meet his, he’s got that look. The one that always makes a lump form in her throat and for her to fall back into bed with him without a single thought of what they have to do that day. Only thing is, this time they’ve got nothing to do for the rest of the weekend and well, staying in bed the entire time had seemed like an appealing idea so she allows herself to give in a little to that look.

It makes me EXTREMELY SAD that knifeplay ranked so low on the kink survey so I’m gonna need y’all to check out this V V V EXCELLENT example of it and come back and tell me you’re sorry and you voted wrong. I am v reasonable what are you talking about.

love (where it wasn’t supposed to be) by @lilliloves

"You know what I can't stand?" Rio asks, stepping closer. It's a rhetorical question but he pauses for a second and watches Dean sniff, watches a bead of sweat trickle down his forehead, watches him shift on both his feet as he contemplates making a run for it.

"A guy who don’t realize how good he's got it." Rio continues, looking Dean up and down in disgust. "A guy that will literally fuck up a good thing just to get his dick wet."

"Yeah, well I can't stand a guy who can have anyone he wants but chooses the married woman he's not entitled to.” Dean shoots back. "And I really can't stand the fact that you're always in the room with us even when you aren't there."

And who brings him into the room Dean hmmmmm????? Jk, jk (or am I). In this one Rio catches Dean out on the town with another woman (bc of course he is) and tries to call him out but whoops! gets called out himself. I really love the like, idk, undercurrent of wistful regret in this fic. I love Dean straight up calling Rio out on his feelings (spoilers but there’s an exchange right after this one that made me straight up holler), and, you know, obvs I am here for Rio making Dean feel like an ass.

Hell Is Other People by makemanybraver

Rio: We're in Hell, Elizabeth! If you don't think you belong here, then repent! Don't fuck everyone in the room in hopes that you get to go out!

Beth: Why do I have to repent?!

Rio: Because you did some fucked up shit in your life, Elizabeth! You keep doing fucked up shit here, too! And you think you don't belong here!

Beth [screaming at the top of her lungs]: Because I don't!

This fic is existentially bonkers and I love it. It’s the kind of experimental format/homage/what have you kind of thing that I L O V E. Based on No Exit by Jean-Paul Sartre, Beth, Rio, and Fitzpatrick are stuck together in a room in hell for all eternity. What more do you need, honestly.

Working On Things by odenkirk

Unknown Hold up, Elizabeth. I'm really thinkin about you here.

Beth turned her face into the pillow, effectively suffocating herself for a moment, but thinking it was a good trade off for the way the cool silk of her pillowcase chilled her skin.

She lifted her head to glance at the still sleeping Dean before replying.

Beth I'm thinking about you too. But this can't happen.

She wanted him to know she wanted him, but she also thought that admitting she was already there would save Rio from trying to convince her. She wanted him, but morals had to win just once in a while.

YES this is technically Beth/Dean while also being Beth/Rio BUT it’s also sort of Rio/Dean and I am HERE FOR THE DIVERSITY OF SHIPPING leave me alone who asked you.

Five Times He Knew What She Was Thinking, and One Time He Didn't by JoeyLee

Aight, so tell ‘em I was hittin’ it. Said deliberately blunt, eyes locked on her face the whole time, just to see those blue eyes widen. She looked so shocked that he almost laughed, so he softened it teasingly just to keep her going. Oh, I’m sorry, sweetheart, tell ‘em we were makin’ love.

Then he just watched her, just watched her face, just fucking fascinated. Her lips were parted and her eyes were big as saucers, and…there it was. Before she could look away flustered, he watched the thought go through her mind. Him and her together.

He wondered what she was picturing or where. Them in the back seat, her bed, a motel? Her on top or him from behind or his face between her legs?

Whatever it was, the blush started immediately, and he watched it bloom out from her cheeks to her hair. Then she was tearing her eyes away to gulp a little. But it didn’t knock her down for long before she was looking back. And then, wait, was she actually asking him how to go about telling a fed they were fucking?

Okay this is another technical WIP but works as a standalone. I am absolutely fucking feral for character POV takes of canon scenes and this is a supremely excellent take on Rio POV of some notable scenes from the pilot through 204. Imo it brilliantly captures Rio’s voice and I love it a lot.

HEADS UP I am absolute shite at tracking ao3 to tumblr unless people have specifically told me someone’s ao3/tumblr name SO if you recognize any of the non-tumblr authors on please lmk so I can tag them and YES I recognize that I am asking y’all to do things for me throughout this entire post and I’M SORRY OKAY I’M A WHOLE ASS MESS LOVE YOU BYE

#brio fic #brio fanfiction #good girls fanfiction #fic recs #anon #asks #gg disk horse #i feel like i had jokes i wanted to make in the tags but now that im here i've totally forgotten them #ANYWAY the important takeaway here is #tell me what you like and why i want to know okay #send me recs #ME ME ME #hahahahaha jk #sort of

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gritsandbrits · 5 years

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Why I hate Carlie Cooper (Spider-Man Rant)

So I've been going around sites such as CBR, Reddit, Tumblr and Deviantart to see what people's opinions were on Carlie Cooper, and the results were mixed at best. As many other fans of the webcrawling hoodlum, I have my share of gripes with her character and this chapter explains why Carlie is the absolute worst Spider Man love interest.

Sour Introduction

Carlie was introduced too soon and too quickly, just after OMD. The travesty already left a sour taste in our mouthes, but when she was introduced showing Mary Jane the door, this scene not only spat in the face of MJ fans and Pete x MJ shippers, but also made the rest of us go, "QUESADA!!!" This made the replacement girlfriend thing very obvious. Marvel made it clear that MJ is gone and Carlie was here to stay.

Notable character traits were ripped off from other love interests

Many readers caught on that the core traits Carlie displayed in her time in the comics were established within previous love interests. Keep in mind, two characters sharing similar attributes isn't wrong. My own OC, Lucy, shares Urusla Ditkovich's love of baking and apparent shyness, and having powers like Sophia Sanduval, but other than that she is nothing like the latter two in terms of personality, looks and personal history. But this is not about my OC.

Carlie has aspects that are blatantly ripped off from other love interests, and they happen to be their good or recognizable traits. This may or may not be intentional on the writers part but merely a product of trying and failing to develop her as a character. Let me run down the list for you.

• Nerdy, adorable and the supposed "regular girl": Debra Whitman

• Dark past involving some serious daddy issues: Mary Jane Watson

They couldn't have given her mommy issues or problems with authority figures in general. To be fair, comic books are drenched with characters with daddy issues. Cyclops is the walking example.

• Idolized within the comics and sometimes praised as "The One" for Peter: Gwen Stacy

As opposed to in fan's memories, some point out that Gwen Stacy hated Spider Man. That's another sad thing about her death: she died hating the guy she loved.

• Dad was a cop: Gwen

To justify Carlie's relationship with Gwen, they made her dad a cop. Later it was revealed that he wasn't a cop nor a good man for that matter. This goes back to the daddy issues thing as we are supposed to feel bad for her, but it came across as cheap and not genuinely tragic as MJ's abusive past. Also, Carlie has a missing mother like Gwen.

• Served as an informant on the force: Jean DeWolff

Whereas Jean had an interesting dynamic with Spider-Man, Carlie's dynamuc seems forced in, rationalized as sharing his love of science. Everything Carlie does could have easily been solved by Spider Man or any of his allies, even Greer Grant.

• Peter vs Spider-Man conflict: Black Cat

Carlie was briefly torn between Parker and Spider Man after discovering the big secret. It took Felicia decades in real time and a few years in comic book time for her to accept Parker but by then he had already moved on to MJ and BC decided to move on as well.

• Fell in love with Parker persona: Gwen, MJ, Sophia from Marvel Adventures

Gwen hated Spider Man though, but she fell in love with Peter. MJ preferred plain old Peter and accepted Spider Man. Sophia played an active role in both Peter's civilian and superhero lives and used her mutant ability to talk to animals to help.

• Personality included being a tsundere: Gwen, and Michelle Gonzales before she went nuts

• Had an interest in science: Gwen

NOTICING A PATTERN HERE!?

• Friends with Harry: Gwen Stacy (again)

• Was depicted as blonde and began with a minor crush on Parker: GWEN STACY!!!

Wow is it just me or do the writers at Marvel lowkey want to resurrect Gwen Stacy? Damn, just let the lady rest in peace!

• Pushed as Peter's intellectual equal: Debra (give us two points for Debby)

• Supposed to have a fun, sociable personality: MJ

Did I mention that Carlie at one time was depicted with red hair with a very similar hairstyle to MJ? They weren't even trying to be subtle with the replacement thing.

• Loves both Spider Man and Peter: MJ also an inversion of Black Cat who only really likes Spidey (she was kinda getting along with Peter but that never took off)

• Went from meek and submissive doormat to assertive and optimistic action girl: Betty Brant

• Named after a particular person given the context behind it: Joe Quesada named her after his daughter

From what I heard, Joe's daughter was around three years old when he shat out OMD. That is very creepy, as if he wants his toddler to be with a fictional character that bad.

When Doc Ock impersonated as Peter after his supposed death, Carlie was the only cast member out of the whole Marvel universe to correctly figure out that Doc!Peter was a faker.

Mary Jane and Aunt May were used to villains dressing up as Peter (and even beat up a few of them), but for some odd reason none of them could figure out the Dcotor Octopus was posing as him.

Depsite MJ being his main love interest and Aunt May having raised him from a kid, they could not have told the real Peter from an impostor.

THE FANTASTIC FOUR AND THE AVENGERS COULDN'T FIGURE IT OUT DEPSITE WORKING WITH PETER FOR YEARS!!!!!

Yet is was the great detective work of Ms. Carlie Cooper that was able to determine that Doctor Octopus was using Peter's body to do some bad things. You know, like a villain.

Speaking of the Doctor, Dan Slott often used him a lot in his stories to the point that fans believe that Doc Ock was becoming a bit of a Villain Sue. And their arguments were sadly proven right later on, but back onto Carlie...

The way she did this was by following Spider Man's money trail to see how he could afford expensive equilment and minions (excuse me, employees) and it leads right to Doc Ock.

The simple fact that one of Spider Man's smartest foes was stupid enough to not cover his tracks showed that something had to be altered just to make Carlie look good. What was that something? Taking basic common sense out of the Marvel Universe so that Carlie could play Miss Marple!

When Carlie got infected with Goblin Serum and turned into Monster (the lamest villain name since Menace), she was the only person to ever resist its brainwashing effects. She gets some scars around her eyes but is otherwise fully cured and that experience is enough to make her leave the world of Spider Man forever.

In the story arc Spider Island, Carlie broke up with Peter just because he didn't tell her he was Spider Man. Alternatively MJ got closer to Peter, which made fans everywhere sigh with relief. This also proves how very little Carlie seems to care about Peter's side of the story.

Also in Spider Island she used her new powers to play around while MJ used hers to actually help people. When a supermodel is better at heroics than a police officer/forensic scientist, then you know something is wrong.

Mary Jane stayed with Peter when she found out, in fact she already knew it was him but didn't confront him because she didn't think of herself as a good confidante and feared Peter would lie to her but she understood why.

It was implied in the comics and stated by old writers that, had Gwen not been killed off she would have eventually found out about Peter being Spider man and stayed with him; they would have even gotten married.

Carlie managed to pop up in other Marvel titles such as The Punisher even though she was irrelevant to the plot, and the writers claim that she was "the sanest member of the cast." This was after her irresponsible antics during Spider Island.

Character shilling when not appropriate

One of Carlie's major problems was how she was pushed as being perfect for Peter without getting to know him. It became even more egregious when other characters started pushing Carlie as perfect, such as Auny May and Harry Osborn.

Mary Jane told Peter that he needed to hook up with Carlie, which was awkward coming from a woman who was married to him for twenty years.

Peter himself couldn't stop gushing over how perfect Carlie was for him, and he spent a lot of time in angst over how undeserving he was of their lust - I mean love.

Everyone, from Harry Osborn to Black Cat said that Carlie was perfect for Peter. I get Harry because he was friends with her, but Black Cat???? The real clencher was that Felicia didn't even know who Carlie was at the time.

No wonder she turned crazy at the end.

SPEAKING OF CRAZY!

Characters personalities were changed in order to make Carlie a total saint

For example, Michelle Gonzales (another hated Spidey Love Interest) used to be a regular old tsundere. Sure she had problems of her own as a character, but once Carlie was introduced her aggressive trait was exaggerated to violent extremes and Michelle begins abusing Peter. If that's not enough she eventually gets RAPED by the Chameleon of all people. The same Chameleon who got his ass beat by Mary Jane and verbally pawned by Aunt May for impersonating Peter.

No matter how Marvel tried to say it, no matter how bitchy she was, Michelle got raped and Chameleon got off scot-free.

I mean he didn't force himself on her just shapeshifted as Peter and had sex with her. Apparently shapeshifters can't be charged with rape as long as it's consensual.

In The Many Loves of Spider Man, Gwen Stacy was presented as a worry wart which goes against her original characterization as a proto-Tsundere. Carlie was presented as a gutsy young girl, which made her look smarter than the supposed science girl Gwen was.

Gets mad at Peter for the dumbest reasons

When Peter had to go on a mission for the Future Foundation (aka the Fantastic Four), he told Carlie that he was going out of town for Horizon Labs, the place he had worked for before becoming Tony Stank 2.0.

Naturally, Carlie found out that Peter had lied to her and during one of her roller derby competitions, ends up beating up a rival skater so badly that she was suspended for the rest kf the game. Afterwards, her team took her out for a drink to calm her down and she gets drunk and goes to a tattoo parlor.

Deciding to get back at Peter, she decided to get an Osborn tattoo, more specifically a Green Goblin.

This was the man that murdered her childhood friend, Peter's first girlfriend and first true love (and to some fans his only true love).

This was the man that ended the Silver Age of Comic Books.

This was the man who killed innocent people just to get what he want.

This was the man who subjected his son and other people to so much pain, misery and sorrow because of his actions, some of which he still had yet to answer for.

But yet.....

You decide to get a tramp stamp of Green Goblin all to spite Peter because he lied to keep you separate from his superhero life?

I'm surprised that everyone who ever did a rant on Carlie never brought this part up. This woman would go as far as to taint her own friend's memory by getting a tattoo of her killer, all just to spite a guy she barely knew for not even a year. And this guy loved her friend.

When Peter finally told Carlie the truth, she broke up with him in yhe most melodramatic way possible. She claimed that his life was a lie and that his Parker persona was "just a suit."

She was also upset that Mary Jane knew about it, even though MJ and Peter were friends far longer than she knew Peter, and he trusted MJ with that secret. Eventually, Carlie accepts the Spidey persona, leaving her with a good reason to hang out with Mary Jane.

I have problems with the above scene because Peter lied to protect her and to keep her out of a very dangerous lifestyle. Yet, she does not want to hear his side of the story and the writers fail to persuade the readers to sympathize with her. This scene also shows that she is a complete and utter hypocrite. She can keep secrets like the identity of the new Wraith (and unlike Vin and Ray she doesn't turn the new Wraith over to the police), yet Peter cannot lie to her for very good reasons.

Featured on "Many Loves of Spider Man" - when Carlie and Peter had not hooked up yet.

At the time Carlie was still a minor character and not engaged in a romance with Peter. Yet for some odd reason she was featured on the cover with characters people grew up with and came to love.

Carlie was not featured in s single comic yet was immediately pushed as one of Peter's many loves. Debra should have been here, or Betty since she was his very first girlfriend. And how come it's called Many when the cover only has four? 🤔

Closing Statements

The positives of Carlie is that she was shown a lot more capable of handling herself in dangerous situations than MJ and Gwen, and even willing to pick up a gun. But MJ was never a traditional damsel in distress; the lady took boxing lessons from Captain America for God's Sake! OG Gwen was never a fighter in the first place and to be honest, she was supposed to be a tsundere. She had a personality, and no matter how people say that Gwen was a boring character who deserved to be killed off, she wasn't in need of no saving while she was alive.

Okay except for that one time.

Others say that Carlie was being unfairly judged because she wasn't like Mary Jane. In contrast, Sophia Sanduval wasn't like Mary Jane and people love her (assuming they know who she is). Sophia is regarded to be one of the best Spider Man love interests. Ursula wasn't Mary Jane and people love her; fans who watched the original trilogy preferred a Peter x Ursula romance because MJ was that bad. There are even people who watched Ultimate Spider Man that started to ship Aya with Peter based on a few ship tease scenes, and she wasn't MJ.

On Quotev, AO3 and right here on Wattpad, you have dozens if not hundreds of Peter Parker x OC fanfictions, many that are amazing and written by pretty talented people. OCs aren't canon in the first place, but the OCs I'd seen (talking about the well-defined ones here) aren't MJ and I have not seen one negative comment about OCs or their creators. In fact people love them because they demonstrate how you can have a unique and relatable love interest without copying canon characters.

Final Statements

Overall, the problems Carlie have are she has inconsistent characterization, tries so hard to be the Perfect Girl for Peter, and she is irrelevant to the plot. If you take away her core traits she just ends up being a flat, boring character.

In conclusion, Carlie is a textbook case of Relationship and Black Hole Sue, and should be used as an example of what not to do when creating love interests. The key is to develop a character over time and not spending so much on making her (or him if any of you prefer same-sex pairings) the perfect girl/man/whatever for Peter or whatever random character you plan on shipping with.

Anyways, that's all I have to say about Carlie. Yeah it was a lot of words but I wanted to show and tell why so many Spider Man fans do not like her. It's not that she replaced Mary Jane, it's because she tried way to hard to be so many different characters and her general unlikable attitude and the subtext behind her whole creation.

Thanks for whoever took the time to read this mess of a rant.

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